View source for Team Fortress Wiki:Discussion/Archive 18

__NOEDITSECTION__
{{discussion close}}
= Archive 18: January—February 2012 =
{{Discussion archives/2012}}
{{Discussion archives/2011}}
{{Discussion archives/2010}}
__TOC__


== Proposing an "In Other Games" page of sorts... ==
Typically, TF2 appearances in other games, such as Worms: Reloaded or Dungeon Defenders, appear in said Trivia section of the page. However, for those with many appearances elsewhere, like the [[Pyro]], we end up with a long list of Trivia detailing the exploits of Hudda Hudda Huh in other games. Why not just take every instance where TF2 has appeared in another game, and make a new page out of it? -- [[User:InShane|InShane]] 05:54, 1 March 2012 (PST)
:[[List of references#References_in_other_games|We already have that, just as a subsection]]. -- <span style="font-family:TF2 Build;font-size:90%;">[[File:Killicon train.png|40px|link=User:Hefaistus]] [[User:Hefaistus|<font color="#FF9933">Hefaistus</font>]]</span> - [[User talk:Hefaistus|<span style="color:black;font-size:82%;">talk</span>]] 06:15, 1 March 2012 (PST)
::Well then, blast! I guess my question now would be if each of these instances should be mentioned on each trivia page. I felt that it was fine when the references were few, but the trivia some pages, like the aforementioned Pyro page, is over half-occupied with appearances in different games. -- [[User:InShane|InShane]] 07:15, 1 March 2012 (PST)
:::I guess a section dedicated to other games should go in each of the dedicated Class reference pages. I'll look into it tonight. '''» [[User:Cooper Kid|<span style="color:red">Coo</span><span style ="color:gray">per</span><span style ="color:blue"> Kid</span>]]''' <small>([[User_talk:Cooper Kid|blether]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Cooper Kid|contreebs]])</small> 07:24, 1 March 2012 (PST)

== Patch layout upgrade or modification ==

I saw this nice: "patch name"-template, and i just thought that for every language the change for the next patch is done(after = ...). I mean these parts: before, current, after ; these are manually added in every language after the next patch is announced. It reminded me of the Patches page itself which works now as a template and must be edited only once and the rest will change itself. So couldn't this also be done on a greater scale? Please tell me what you think and know about it! [[User:TheDoctor|TheDoctor]] 19:36, 1 March 2012 (PST)

== Get rid of orphan translated disambiguation pages ==
A lot of disambiguation pages have been translated but are total orphans. This makes them hard to maintain and almost completely pointless because no one can get to them. Only the main version will come up when using the search box. For example, [[BB/de]] is the German version of [[BB]]. No one is going to type "BB/de" into the search field, they will type "BB" if anything. Since [[Special:WhatLinksHere/BB/de|nothing links to that page]], it should be removed. '''I propose that all translated disambiguation pages (like BB/de) be removed if they are not connected to real articles, like [[119th_medals/de]] is.''' The one downside is that all of these pages will show up as untranslated pages, but I think that's okay, since they already do show up that way on most languages. As another option, we could modify the bots to omit disambiguation pages in that report.

It's a shame to lose all this translated material, and it would be nice if non-English visitors could get to those pages, but that's just not how the Go/Search functionality works on the wiki.  Thoughts? &ndash; [[User:Fashnek|<span style="text-size:1.5em;font-weight:bold;color:#363;text-shadow:0 0 0.8em #6c6;">fashnek</span>]] <sub>([[User talk:Fashnek|talk]]&#183;[[Special:Contributions/Fashnek|c]])</sub> 09:45, 5 March 2012 (PST)

:Less is always better. I started this in the irc chat, and i fully support it that these non logical articles should be removed. [[User:TheDoctor|TheDoctor]] 09:48, 5 March 2012 (PST)
:If we can get a tag for the English pages that we can put in so that those pages will not start clogging up the missing translations list, then I am all in favour for it. Particularly since there are 'bout four dozen of those BB-pages. -- <span style="font-family:TF2 Build;font-size:90%;">[[File:Killicon train.png|40px|link=User:Hefaistus]] [[User:Hefaistus|<font color="#FF9933">Hefaistus</font>]]</span> - [[User talk:Hefaistus|<span style="color:black;font-size:82%;">talk</span>]] 10:09, 5 March 2012 (PST)
:: Yes, the tag would be that they are in [[:Category:Disambiguation]]. This would lead to false positives on disambig. pages that are actually used, but redlinks on articles are straightforward to address. &ndash; [[User:Fashnek|<span style="text-size:1.5em;font-weight:bold;color:#363;text-shadow:0 0 0.8em #6c6;">fashnek</span>]] <sub>([[User talk:Fashnek|talk]]&#183;[[Special:Contributions/Fashnek|c]])</sub> 10:13, 5 March 2012 (PST)
:::I just wanted to note that i started a small discussion with DrAkcel and he said he will take care of the matter, in the russian language. [[User:TheDoctor|TheDoctor]] 11:36, 7 March 2012 (PST)
::::But are you planning on making the bots ignore '''all''' disambigs? Some disambigs, such as [[Badge]], really shoud be translated, and the translation of the name of these pages should redirect to their translations (eg. Значок redirects to Badge/ru, which should be done for all other languages as well). {{n}} [[User:EpicEric|<span style="color:#5885A2;font-size:15px;font-family:'Trebuchet MS';text-shadow:#e3e3e3 1px 1px 0px;"><b>Epic Eric</b></span>]] <small> ([[User talk:EpicEric|T]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/EpicEric|C]])</small> 11:39, 7 March 2012 (PST)
::::That makes me wonder, EpicEric. Why should a russian person create a Badge/ru article and then make a redirect from the russian language to this article. Isn't it more logical to make the article under the russian name for badge???? If this is not possible, ignore my rejection for it. [[User:TheDoctor|TheDoctor]] 16:23, 7 March 2012 (PST)
::::Well, yes, it would be easiest to ignore all disambiguation pages. The false positives would be those few disambiguation pages that actually need to be translated. Badge only needs to be translated if someone sees that it needs to be translated due to a redlink or because that person has created some redirect in their own language. [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Badge|Nothing actually links to the "Badge" article]] so it exists for search purposes. I believe search abbreviations should be handled on a by-language basis. That means that if Russian editors want to have a search-based disambiguation page for articles, they should make that disambiguation page make sense in Russian specifically. It should not try to match the English one, which is based on the English word "badge". &ndash; [[User:Fashnek|<span style="text-size:1.5em;font-weight:bold;color:#363;text-shadow:0 0 0.8em #6c6;">fashnek</span>]] <sub>([[User talk:Fashnek|talk]]&#183;[[Special:Contributions/Fashnek|c]])</sub> 08:42, 8 March 2012 (PST)
: {{c|support}}. But the bot should definitely omit them, or the new Russian translators will translate them again and again :).&nbsp;—&nbsp;[[File:Login_Soldier.png|link=User:Stormbird]][[User:Stormbird|<span style="color:#5B885B;font-size:13px;font-family:'Arial';font-weight: bold;">Stormbird</span>]] <span style="font-size:10px"><sup>[[User talk:Stormbird|<span style="color:white; background:#5B885B;padding:0 2px;">talk</span>]]</sup></span> 08:56, 8 March 2012 (PST)
::Or we add on the header of missing translation pages: "ONLY TRANSLATE DISAMBIGUATION PAGES IF THEY HAVE THE SAME NAME IN THE OTHER LANGUAGE ; and/or open articles in the russian written way, because f.e. [[PP/ru]] doesnt help a russian much if he searches in the russian language" [[User:TheDoctor|TheDoctor]] 02:56, 9 March 2012 (PST)
:::Articles that make no sense (BB/ru,BB/de and others) need to remove--[[User:FreeXMan|<font style="text-shadow:green 0px 0px 9px;"><b><font FACE="Times New Roman" color="#008000">FreeXMan</font>]]</b> <font FACE="Times New Roman" color="#808080">[[User_talk:FreeXMan|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/FreeXMan|Cont]]</font></font> 11:51, 10 March 2012 (PST)
:: We discussed it today with some russian translators. The best way, to my mind, is to make bot ignore pages from [[:Category:Disambiguation]] and all localized categories like [[:Category:Disambiguation/ru]]. Then all translated disambigs should be analyzed and either removed or adapted to the article language. There are TWO points that should be taken into consideration. 1) Not all english disambigs make sense in other languages (e.g., [[Point]] have those 2 meanings in english, but in russian they are completely different). 2) There are disambigs in other languages that do not have english equivalents (e.g., the russian word ''Ключ'' has 2 meanings: ''Wrench'' and ''Key'', and we need a disambig/ru page). So, once again, '''bot should not process disambig pages as «translation needed»''' and '''all translated disambig pages should be revised and either removed or fixed to correspond the article language'''.&nbsp;—&nbsp;[[File:Login_Soldier.png|link=User:Stormbird]][[User:Stormbird|<span style="color:#5B885B;font-size:13px;font-family:'Arial';font-weight: bold;">Stormbird</span>]] <span style="font-size:10px"><sup>[[User talk:Stormbird|<span style="color:white; background:#5B885B;padding:0 2px;">talk</span>]]</sup></span> 12:06, 10 March 2012 (PST)
::'''Please continue this discussion [[Team_Fortress_Wiki:Discussion#Disambiguation_pages:_global_suggestion|here]].''' -- [[User:Pilk|Pilk]] <sup>([[User talk:Pilk|talk]])</sup> 09:42, 10 April 2012 (PDT)

== Would PS3 modding count under hacking? ==

I was thinking about updating the [[Hacking]] page with info about hacking the PS3/XBOX 360 versions of the game, as they are practically hacks aswell.

Would this be a good idea?--[[User:Iamgoofball|Iamgoofball]] 22:09, 5 March 2012 (PST)

== New template(s) proposal ==

Hi all, I've not made any edits for a month or so, mainly because it's been pretty quiet and I'm loathe to make work for work's sake. However, I saw [http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2539652 this thread] on SPUF, and decided to help the guy out and improve the wiki at the same time.

The almost-finished (item name links need improving) template is [[User:Rebmcr/Template:Weapon qualities checklist|here]], and it uses [[User:Rebmcr/Template:Weapon_qualities_checklist/table|a base layout]], which is seperate from the data to allow for easier editing.

The base template also uses a new [[User:Rebmcr/qualitycheck]] template (thanks to EpicEric), which could be used in place of [[Template:canbeunusual]], if it's considered a good idea.

I need to write a Usage section for these 3 new templates tonight, but I just wanted to start getting opinions on this now. [[User:Rebmcr|<span style="font-family:&#34;TF2 Build&#34;,sans-serif;font-size:120%"><span style="color:#FF2A55;">reb</span><span style="color:#002A55;">mcr</span></span>]] 03:34, 14 February 2012 (PST)

:: OK, usage section written, appearance improved. I feel this is of a quality now that can go onto the main site. What does everyone think? [[User:Rebmcr|<span style="font-family:&#34;TF2 Build&#34;,sans-serif;font-size:120%"><span style="color:#FF2A55;">reb</span><span style="color:#002A55;">mcr</span></span>]] 13:57, 15 February 2012 (PST)

{{c|Support|I approve of this.}} {{n}} [[User:EpicEric|<span style="color:#5885A2;font-size:15px;font-family:'Trebuchet MS';text-shadow:#e3e3e3 1px 1px 0px;"><b>Epic Eric</b></span>]] <small> ([[User talk:EpicEric|T]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/EpicEric|C]])</small> 13:12, 15 February 2012 (PST)

{{c|Support|I approve of this in a superior fashion compared to Epic Eric}} --{{User:Firestorm/sig}} 13:13, 15 February 2012 (PST)

:Here's my two cents:
*Title bar is too big, should only cover one line (might also read better as "''Possible weapon qualities''")
*Background colour makes it hard to see the breaks between weapons - try switching it to #FFDDAD as in [[Template:Craftable Demoman hats|this one]]
*Don't really need the key twice - all other templates on the wiki just have it at the bottom
:Nice job overall. I saw that post on the forums too and was thinking about throwing a template together. Glad I didn't bother because this one's much better than anything I could have come up with!
:'''» [[User:Cooper Kid|<span style="color:red">Coo</span><span style ="color:gray">per</span><span style ="color:blue"> Kid</span>]]''' <small>([[User_talk:Cooper Kid|blether]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Cooper Kid|contreebs]])</small> 14:35, 15 February 2012 (PST)
:: Thanks for the feedback, been a bit (a lot) busy since last week, but I applied those suggestions now and fixed the bug with the title size. [[User:Rebmcr|<span style="font-family:&#34;TF2 Build&#34;,sans-serif;font-size:120%"><span style="color:#FF2A55;">reb</span><span style="color:#002A55;">mcr</span></span>]] 13:14, 20 February 2012 (PST)

* ''Looks like the feedback was spread out over each page in the project, so I've grouped it here (if that's Naughty, please let me know).'' I would really appreciate more opinions, guys! [[User:Rebmcr|<span style="font-family:&#34;TF2 Build&#34;,sans-serif;font-size:120%"><span style="color:#FF2A55;">reb</span><span style="color:#002A55;">mcr</span></span>]] 13:14, 20 February 2012 (PST)

{{c|Support|I support this, but,}} we must decide whether to include such qualities as vintage for items that were not intended to be vintage (like [[Earbuds]]), as well as the community and self-made qualities. [[User:r4wrz0rz0r|<span style="color:black;border:2px solid black">I eat derpcakes</span>]] 10:28, 10 March 2012 (PST)
:Earbuds aren't weapons =/ I don't think it's worth adding Self-Made or Community, as practically any item can be found in those qualities. The current ones (Normal, Unique, Vintage, Genuine and Strange) are enough. '''» [[User:Cooper Kid|<span style="color:red">Coo</span><span style ="color:gray">per</span><span style ="color:blue"> Kid</span>]]''' <small>([[User_talk:Cooper Kid|blether]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Cooper Kid|contreebs]])</small> 13:44, 10 March 2012 (PST)
::IMO, it should only list qualities that are normally obtainable. Eg.: Big Kill should be listed only as Unique, not Vintage, as it was obtainable through an unusual method. {{n}} [[User:EpicEric|<span style="color:#5885A2;font-size:15px;font-family:'Trebuchet MS';text-shadow:#e3e3e3 1px 1px 0px;"><b>Epic Eric</b></span>]] <small> ([[User talk:EpicEric|T]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/EpicEric|C]])</small> 13:56, 10 March 2012 (PST)

Alrighty then, no bugged items (frowny face). I will proceed to comment that the strange-quality checkmarks are very hard to make out and hurt your eyes too. I'll work on the rest of the items' qualities, if you don't mind <small><small>WHICH YOU DON'T</small></small>. [[User:r4wrz0rz0r|<span style="color:black;border:2px solid black">I eat derpcakes</span>]] 14:16, 10 March 2012 (PST)
Oops you took care of that =/ [[User:r4wrz0rz0r|<span style="color:black;border:2px solid black">I eat derpcakes</span>]] 14:17, 10 March 2012 (PST)
: Gonna do a [[mmmph]]ing awesome upgrade to the tick/cross cells now. Watch this space. [[User:Rebmcr|<span style="font-family:&#34;TF2 Build&#34;,sans-serif;font-size:120%"><span style="color:#FF2A55;">reb</span><span style="color:#002A55;">mcr</span></span>]] 05:39, 11 March 2012 (PDT)
::Done, see below.[[User:Rebmcr|<span style="font-family:&#34;TF2 Build&#34;,sans-serif;font-size:120%"><span style="color:#FF2A55;">reb</span><span style="color:#002A55;">mcr</span></span>]] 14:45, 11 March 2012 (PDT)
: {{c|Support|Heck yes}}. But I think you should just include the Multiple classes weapons on their respective classes. It's not such a big deal to have 3 shotguns in the template, but if users find it easier to locate, it should be better. [[User:GianAwesome|GianAwesome]] 19:24, 10 March 2012 (PST)
:: {{c|Neutral|I have no strong feelings one way or the other}} What does everyone else think? What about Saxxy and Objector? [[User:Rebmcr|<span style="font-family:&#34;TF2 Build&#34;,sans-serif;font-size:120%"><span style="color:#FF2A55;">reb</span><span style="color:#002A55;">mcr</span></span>]] 05:39, 11 March 2012 (PDT)
{{c|Support|This looks like a pretty good idea}} I quite like the look of it apart from the black title box of the weapon. I think it'd be better to look more like [[Template:Vintage_quality_table|this.]] <span style="color:#3399CC;font-family:'Lucida Console';text-shadow:#66FF33 2px 2px 2px;">'''Bojjob'''</span> 08:57, 21 March 2012 (PDT)

====New Stuff!====
* Got a '''[[User:Rebmcr/Template:Weapon_qualities_checklist|NEW VERSION]]''' for your approval/disapproval. I'll re-flow it into 8 columns when I get a consensus on whether to fold-in multi-class weapons (no point re-flowing it twice). [[User:Rebmcr|<span style="font-family:&#34;TF2 Build&#34;,sans-serif;font-size:120%"><span style="color:#FF2A55;">reb</span><span style="color:#002A55;">mcr</span></span>]] 14:45, 11 March 2012 (PDT)
:{{c|Support|I still approve of this}} {{n}} [[User:EpicEric|<span style="color:#5885A2;font-size:15px;font-family:'Trebuchet MS';text-shadow:#e3e3e3 1px 1px 0px;"><b>Epic Eric</b></span>]] <small> ([[User talk:EpicEric|T]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/EpicEric|C]])</small> 15:08, 15 March 2012 (PDT)
* Also calling for votes on how to display the ticks/crosses! Look '''[[:File:User_Rebmcr_Marker_style.png|HERE]]''' and then let me know what style you'd prefer! [[User:Rebmcr|<span style="font-family:&#34;TF2 Build&#34;,sans-serif;font-size:120%"><span style="color:#FF2A55;">reb</span><span style="color:#002A55;">mcr</span></span>]] 14:45, 11 March 2012 (PDT)
: Batallion's Backup has the Festive Flame Thrower icon. Otherwise, nice job!--[[User:Iamgoofball|Iamgoofball]] 15:53, 11 March 2012 (PDT)
:: You're looking at the next row. [[User:Rebmcr|<span style="font-family:&#34;TF2 Build&#34;,sans-serif;font-size:120%"><span style="color:#FF2A55;">reb</span><span style="color:#002A55;">mcr</span></span>]] 15:55, 11 March 2012 (PDT)
::: I like it, but the key looks weird; it is currently too big it fit in it's own section. [[File:User_M-NINJA_Signature.png|link=User:M-NINJA]] 18:25, 11 March 2012 (PDT)
:::: Yeah, the CSS is bugged in Chrome. Gonna fix it this afternoon. [[User:Rebmcr|<span style="font-family:&#34;TF2 Build&#34;,sans-serif;font-size:120%"><span style="color:#FF2A55;">reb</span><span style="color:#002A55;">mcr</span></span>]] 04:13, 12 March 2012 (PDT)
:{{c|Support|1}} {{n}} [[User:EpicEric|<span style="color:#5885A2;font-size:15px;font-family:'Trebuchet MS';text-shadow:#e3e3e3 1px 1px 0px;"><b>Epic Eric</b></span>]] <small> ([[User talk:EpicEric|T]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/EpicEric|C]])</small> 15:08, 15 March 2012 (PDT)
:{{c|Comment|Suggestion}} - Why not have the checks and stuff to the right side of the weapon icon? Well, let me answer that myself: [[HHHH]]'s "Unusual only" message. But I think it's still doable and worth considering. [[User:r4wrz0rz0r|<span style="color:black;border:2px solid black">I eat derpcakes</span>]] 09:49, 17 March 2012 (PDT)
::Because then it becomes a lot easier to confuse the ticks for Item A, with Item B next to it. [[User:Rebmcr|<span style="font-family:&#34;TF2 Build&#34;,sans-serif;font-size:120%"><span style="color:#FF2A55;">reb</span><span style="color:#002A55;">mcr</span></span>]] 04:03, 19 March 2012 (PDT)

== Item set crafting - separate template ==

<big>'''''Note: [[#Final proposal|Final proposal below ↓]]'''''</big>

Currently, for most weapon-based item sets ([[Item sets#Santa's Little Accomplice|with one exception]]), we need two or three blueprints which have different ingredients but all create the same thing. Take, for example, these two for the [[Attendant]]:
{{Blueprint
| ingredient-1 = Refined Metal
| ingredient-1-amount = 4
| ingredient-2 = Degreaser
| result = Attendant
}}
{{Blueprint
| ingredient-1 = Refined Metal
| ingredient-1-amount = 4
| ingredient-2 = Powerjack
| result = Attendant
}}
I think that we should make a template called Item set blueprint, and in order to use it, you simply put in the name of the item set and it does the work. For example, <tt><nowiki>{{Item set blueprint|Gas Jockey's Gear}}</nowiki></tt> would give you a single blueprint for the Gas Jockey's Gear item set headwear crafting blueprint thing. How would it be a ''single'' blueprint, instead of two or three, as shown above? We would take the slot that would originally be for either the Degreaser or Powerjack, and instead label it "Gas Jockey's Gear weapon", and below it have a thumbnail for each weapon. However, in order for this to work, I would need help with translation switching.

Please note that in order to make this work the original {{tl|Blueprint}} template must be updated (for multiple ingredients in one slot); also, share your thoughts. [[User:r4wrz0rz0r|<span style="color:black;border:2px solid black">I eat derpcakes</span>]] 10:59, 10 March 2012 (PST)
:Kind of like how class token blueprints have multiple results? That could work. {{c|Support}}. '''» [[User:Cooper Kid|<span style="color:red">Coo</span><span style ="color:gray">per</span><span style ="color:blue"> Kid</span>]]''' <small>([[User_talk:Cooper Kid|blether]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Cooper Kid|contreebs]])</small> 11:07, 10 March 2012 (PST)
:: {{c|support/comment}} Sounds like a good idea! How about instead of "Gas Jockey's Gear Weapons", you have the spot where there are multiple items that could be used, and have a / in-between the two items, and show both of the items icons?--[[User:Iamgoofball|Iamgoofball]] 21:32, 10 March 2012 (PST)
:: {{c|support}} Not much to say, just support. [[User:Rebmcr|<span style="font-family:&#34;TF2 Build&#34;,sans-serif;font-size:120%"><span style="color:#FF2A55;">reb</span><span style="color:#002A55;">mcr</span></span>]] 05:39, 11 March 2012 (PDT)
:: {{c|Support}} and {{c|Comment|Comment:}} There'd be no need to create a new template; we could only use <tt><nowiki>{{Blueprint|autoresult=gas jockey's gear}}</nowiki></tt>, for example, and it'd automatically appear correctly (as long as it's correctly dictionarized). {{n}} [[User:EpicEric|<span style="color:#5885A2;font-size:15px;font-family:'Trebuchet MS';text-shadow:#e3e3e3 1px 1px 0px;"><b>Epic Eric</b></span>]] <small> ([[User talk:EpicEric|T]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/EpicEric|C]])</small> 08:41, 11 March 2012 (PDT)
:: {{c}} If once done every language would be up to date with the template update, which is good. But you could also manually do that. I just thought that the idea of an icon "jockey gear weapon" and under it the symbol of the weapons which you can use is not that great. I wonder if there are only 2 weapons which can be used it you let both appear like this: Weapon1/Weapon2. And they are kept seperated with a diagonally line. But i think the way it is done now works also very great and easy. [[User:TheDoctor|TheDoctor]] 17:01, 11 March 2012 (PDT)

Like this?
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size:90%; text-align:center; margin-bottom:1em;" width="auto"
|style="background-color: #FFDD99;" |[[Refined Metal]]
|
|style="background-color: #FFDD99;" |[[Powerjack]] or [[Degreaser]]
|
|style="background-color: #FFDD99;" |[[Attendant]]
|-
|[[Image:Item icon Refined Metal.png|text-bottom|100x100px|link=Refined Metal]]{{TF2B|text=x4|size=22px|color=#292625}}
|{{TF2B|text=+|size=65px|color=#292625}}
|[[Image:Item icon Powerjack.png|text-top|50x50px|link=Powerjack]][[Image:Item icon Degreaser.png|text-top|50x50px|link=Degreaser]]
|{{TF2B|text==|size=65px|color=#292625}}
|[[Image:Item icon Attendant.png|text-bottom|100x100px|link=Attendant]]
|}
'''» [[User:Cooper Kid|<span style="color:red">Coo</span><span style ="color:gray">per</span><span style ="color:blue"> Kid</span>]]''' <small>([[User_talk:Cooper Kid|blether]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Cooper Kid|contreebs]])</small> 17:35, 11 March 2012 (PDT)
:: No I thought it should be like this: [[File:User TheDoctor seperatedexample.png]] ; just done it fast this is just an example. [[User:TheDoctor|TheDoctor]] 17:46, 11 March 2012 (PDT)
:Is this better?
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size:90%; text-align:center; margin-bottom:1em;" width="auto"
|style="background-color: #FFDD99;" |[[Refined Metal]]
|
|style="background-color: #FFDD99;" |[[Powerjack]] or [[Degreaser]]
|
|style="background-color: #FFDD99;" |[[Attendant]]
|-
|[[Image:Item icon Refined Metal.png|text-bottom|100x100px|link=Refined Metal]]{{TF2B|text=x4|size=22px|color=#292625}}
|{{TF2B|text=+|size=65px|color=#292625}}
|[[Image:Item icon Powerjack.png|text-bottom|50x50px|link=Powerjack]]{{TF2B|text=OR|size=16px|color=#292625}}[[Image:Item icon Degreaser.png|text-top|50x50px|link=Degreaser]]
|{{TF2B|text==|size=65px|color=#292625}}
|[[Image:Item icon Attendant.png|text-bottom|100x100px|link=Attendant]]
|}
'''» [[User:Cooper Kid|<span style="color:red">Coo</span><span style ="color:gray">per</span><span style ="color:blue"> Kid</span>]]''' <small>([[User_talk:Cooper Kid|blether]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Cooper Kid|contreebs]])</small> 18:01, 11 March 2012 (PDT)
::Yes it is. Still i love this black lines until they reach the word "or". This seperation with the black lines makes it more clear for the casual user, and make it look not so plain. But if it can't be done otherwise i support this. Also cool for the fast answer. [[User:TheDoctor|TheDoctor]] 18:04, 11 March 2012 (PDT)
::: {{c|support/comment}} I really like how this looks. It would save a bit of space on the pages, as well. [[User:Sven|~Sven]] 20:22, 11 March 2012 (PDT)
:::: {{c|Support|Me gusta}}, but still, how would we deal with three-weapon sets? This is a "three pipe problem," as they say (apparently). [[User:r4wrz0rz0r|<span style="color:black;border:2px solid black">I eat derpcakes</span>]] 03:30, 12 March 2012 (PDT)
:Example numero 3 coming up:
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size:90%; text-align:center; margin-bottom:1em;" width="auto"
|style="background-color: #FFDD99;" |[[Refined Metal]]
|
|style="background-color: #FFDD99;" |{{tooltip|[[Croc-o-Style]] weapon|Any weapon from the Croc-o-Style item set}}
|
|style="background-color: #FFDD99;" |[[Ol' Snaggletooth]]
|-
|[[Image:Item icon Refined Metal.png|text-bottom|100x100px|link=Refined Metal]]{{TF2B|text=x4|size=22px|color=#292625}}
|{{TF2B|text=+|size=65px|color=#292625}}
|
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size:90%; text-align:center;" width="auto;" style="border: 0px"
|[[Image:Item icon Bushwacka.png|text-bottom|50x50px|link=Bushwacka]]
|{{TF2B|text=OR|size=16px|color=#292625}}
|[[Image:Item icon Sydney Sleeper.png|text-top|50x50px|link=Sydney Sleeper]]
|-
|
|[[Image:Item icon Darwin's Danger Shield.png|text-top|50x50px|link=Darwin's Danger Shield]]
|}
|{{TF2B|text==|size=65px|color=#292625}}
|[[Image:Item icon Ol' Snaggletooth.png|text-bottom|100x100px|link=Ol' Snaggletooth]]
|}
'''» [[User:Cooper Kid|<span style="color:red">Coo</span><span style ="color:gray">per</span><span style ="color:blue"> Kid</span>]]''' <small>([[User_talk:Cooper Kid|blether]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Cooper Kid|contreebs]])</small> 05:13, 12 March 2012 (PDT)
:And this doesnt show the item name + link which doesnt help people who dont know the symbols of every weapon, or maybe think the bushwacka is a kukri... [[User:TheDoctor|TheDoctor]] 05:30, 12 March 2012 (PDT)
::I did try having all 3 items named like in the first two examples, but it made the template very wide. Clicking on any of the images does link to the respective weapon's article, so that should help. '''» [[User:Cooper Kid|<span style="color:red">Coo</span><span style ="color:gray">per</span><span style ="color:blue"> Kid</span>]]''' <small>([[User_talk:Cooper Kid|blether]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Cooper Kid|contreebs]])</small> 05:57, 12 March 2012 (PDT)
: {{c|support}} this version. Each weapon icon is clickable in case you don't know the name, and having lines is a) cluttered and fussy, and b) difficult to code. [[User:Rebmcr|<span style="font-family:&#34;TF2 Build&#34;,sans-serif;font-size:120%"><span style="color:#FF2A55;">reb</span><span style="color:#002A55;">mcr</span></span>]] 08:11, 12 March 2012 (PDT)
:: {{c|Support}} this solution, but I think it would be better to have "any" instead of "or", in a case which contains 3 items. [[User:r4wrz0rz0r|<span style="color:black;border:2px solid black">I eat derpcakes</span>]] 13:57, 12 March 2012 (PDT)
{{User:Sven/Blueprint_example}}
Something like that? (The TF2B template doesn't currently support having the text aligned to the center, but I did my best) [[User:Sven|~Sven]] 08:13, 17 March 2012 (PDT)


=== Final proposal ===

With the feedback and help from the community I've been able to make a more to-the-point proposal. Much credit to [[User:Cooper Kid|Cooper Kid]] for his clever template workings.

The proposal is I think quite simple:

''Replace the original redundant crafting recipes with either of these when applicable''

{{User:R4wrz0rz0r/swagbox/settemplateproposal2}}

{{User:R4wrz0rz0r/swagbox/settemplateproposal1}}

A few things to note:
*We will incorporate this into the [[Template:Blueprint|blueprint template]] so that <tt><nowiki>{{Blueprint|autoresult=Gas Jockey's Gear}}</nowiki></tt> and <tt><nowiki>{{Blueprint|autoresult=Croc-o-Style Kit}}</nowiki></tt> would give the above results;
*We will modify the formatting of the item set modification for any language that needs it ("any" might need different and longer words or phrases in different languages, etc.)
**I'll leave this up to individual translators.

If we decide to put this into effect I'll be happy to help with coding it (for English, of course). [[User:r4wrz0rz0r|<span style="color:black;border:2px solid black">I eat derpcakes</span>]] <s>09:33, 17 March 2012 (PDT)</s> 09:43, 17 March 2012 (PDT)
*{{c|support}} the "''set name'' wepon" version [[User:Rebmcr|<span style="font-family:&#34;TF2 Build&#34;,sans-serif;font-size:120%"><span style="color:#FF2A55;">reb</span><span style="color:#002A55;">mcr</span></span>]] 09:36, 17 March 2012 (PDT)
:{{c|Oppose}} Either use "or", "any" or no text. Different texts for each set would only cause confusion. Either way, the second one is better. {{n}} [[User:EpicEric|<span style="color:#5885A2;font-size:15px;font-family:'Trebuchet MS';text-shadow:#e3e3e3 1px 1px 0px;"><b>Epic Eric</b></span>]] <small> ([[User talk:EpicEric|T]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/EpicEric|C]])</small> 09:37, 17 March 2012 (PDT)
::In response to these I've slightly edited the proposal, please check it again. [[User:r4wrz0rz0r|<span style="color:black;border:2px solid black">I eat derpcakes</span>]] 09:43, 17 March 2012 (PDT)
: {{c|support}} the latest templates as they are, even though "any" looks bad. {{c|oppose}} signing talk pages without a username. &ndash; [[User:Fashnek|<span style="text-size:1.5em;font-weight:bold;color:#363;text-shadow:0 0 0.8em #6c6;">fashnek</span>]] <sub>([[User talk:Fashnek|talk]]&#183;[[Special:Contributions/Fashnek|c]])</sub> 09:51, 17 March 2012 (PDT)
:: Sorreh, my bad. New sig coming up. {{user:r4wrz0rz0r/sig/actual}} 09:56, 17 March 2012 (PDT)
: {{c|support}} These are good, however I {{c|disagree}} with what Eric said, I think using "or" for two and "any" for 3+ is a much better idea, I don't think it would be confusing. -[[User:Mr. Magoolachub|Mr. Magoolachub]] 09:54, 17 March 2012 (PDT)
:{{c|Support}}, "or" for two and "any" for 3+ is good, though I still think that using "or" across the board is fine and makes the most sense. '''» [[User:Cooper Kid|<span style="color:red">Coo</span><span style ="color:gray">per</span><span style ="color:blue"> Kid</span>]]''' <small>([[User_talk:Cooper Kid|blether]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Cooper Kid|contreebs]])</small> 09:57, 17 March 2012 (PDT)

:{{c|Support}} This looks pretty neat! If this gets added, I'll go ahead and start revamping the pages to add the new ones. Also, I happened to modify the second template to show it being used for a different item-set. I added the example below this post.--[[User:Iamgoofball|Iamgoofball]] 22:39, 17 March 2012 (PDT)
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size:90%; text-align:center; margin-bottom:1em;" width="auto"
|style="background-color: #FFDD99;" |[[Refined Metal]]
|
|style="background-color: #FFDD99;" |{{tooltip|[[Airborne Armaments]] weapon|Any weapon from the Airborne Armaments Kit item set}}
|
|style="background-color: #FFDD99;" |[[Jumper's Jeepcap]]
|-
|[[Image:Item icon Refined Metal.png|text-bottom|100x100px|link=Refined Metal]]{{TF2B|text=x4|size=22px|color=#292625}}
|{{TF2B|text=+|size=65px|color=#292625}}
|
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size:90%; text-align:center;" width="auto;" style="border: 0px"
|[[Image:Item icon Market Gardener.png|text-bottom|50x50px|link=Market Gardener]]
|{{TF2B|text=ANY|size=16px|color=#292625}}
|[[Image:Item icon Liberty Launcher.png|text-top|50x50px|link=Liberty Launcher]]
|-
|
|[[Image:Item icon Reserve Shooter.png|text-top|50x50px|link=Reserve Shooter]]
|}
|{{TF2B|text==|size=65px|color=#292625}}
|[[Image:Item icon Jumper's Jeepcap.png|text-bottom|100x100px|link=Jumper's Jeepcap]]
|}

:{{c|Support}} moov, but need to make sure:
* All recipes stay in {{tl|dictionary/blueprints}} without needing any translation switching on that dictionary (use translations from items dictionary)
* Text can be localized ("or"/"any") easily, in common_strings or blueprints dictionary; all language variants should fit on the template too, so accommodate for variable-width words
* The multi-result variant stays consistent:
{{Blueprint|autoresult = Scout secondary}}
:The above should have "one of" in the same style as the other cells can have "any"
— [[User:WindPower|<span style="font-weight:bold;">Wind</span>]] 08:54, 21 March 2012 (PDT)
::Maybe it's best to keep things simple then, like this:
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size:90%; text-align:center; margin-bottom:1em;" width="auto"
|style="background-color: #FFDD99;" |[[Refined Metal]]
|
|style="background-color: #FFDD99;" |{{tooltip|[[Gas Jockey's Gear]] weapon|Any weapon from the Gas Jockey's Gear item set}}
|
|style="background-color: #FFDD99;" |[[Attendant]]
|-
|[[Image:Item icon Refined Metal.png|text-bottom|100x100px|link=Refined Metal]]{{TF2B|text=x4|size=22px|color=#292625}}
|{{TF2B|text=+|size=65px|color=#292625}}
||[[Image:Item icon Powerjack.png|text-bottom|50x50px|link=Powerjack]][[Image:Item icon Degreaser.png|text-bottom|50x50px|link=Degreaser]]
|{{TF2B|text==|size=65px|color=#292625}}
|[[Image:Item icon Attendant.png|text-bottom|100x100px|link=Attendant]]
|}
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size:90%; text-align:center; margin-bottom:1em;" width="auto"
|style="background-color: #FFDD99;" |[[Refined Metal]]
|
|style="background-color: #FFDD99;" |{{tooltip|[[Croc-o-Style]] weapon|Any weapon from the Croc-o-Style item set}}
|
|style="background-color: #FFDD99;" |[[Ol' Snaggletooth]]
|-
|[[Image:Item icon Refined Metal.png|text-bottom|100x100px|link=Refined Metal]]{{TF2B|text=x4|size=22px|color=#292625}}
|{{TF2B|text=+|size=65px|color=#292625}}
|[[Image:Item icon Bushwacka.png|text-bottom|50x50px|link=Bushwacka]][[Image:Item icon Sydney Sleeper.png|text-bottom|50x50px|link=Sydney Sleeper]][[Image:Item icon Darwin's Danger Shield.png|text-bottom|50x50px|link=Darwin's Danger Shield]]
|{{TF2B|text==|size=65px|color=#292625}}
|[[Image:Item icon Ol' Snaggletooth.png|text-bottom|100x100px|link=Ol' Snaggletooth]]
|}
:That at least keeps them consistent with the current template format. You know how much I love consistency. '''» [[User:Cooper Kid|<span style="color:red">Coo</span><span style ="color:gray">per</span><span style ="color:blue"> Kid</span>]]''' <small>([[User_talk:Cooper Kid|blether]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Cooper Kid|contreebs]])</small> 17:06, 21 March 2012 (PDT)
:{{Comment}} I think that we don't need these "Or" or "Any". Just make a list of items that would be enough. --[[User:Askarmuk|askarmuk]], '''[[User talk:Askarmuk|C?]]''' 22:17, 21 March 2012 (PDT)

Discussion '''closed''', consensus is that we go through with the proposal. I will implement a version similar to Cooper Kid's, as shown just above. {{user:r4wrz0rz0r/sig/actual}} 07:17, 22 March 2012 (PDT)

== Lang icon Additional strings ==

Currently, [[Template:Lang icon]] only supports translated string for the word English. [[SteamRep#Support_Communities|Sometimes]] it has to be used for other languages, but when you do that it shows the string of the language IN that language, for example, "Lang icon|ru" generates Русский. I think we should add the strings for other languages. [[User:GianAwesome|GianAwesome]] 11:52, 11 March 2012 (PDT)
:I support this idea, but I wonder how often it is really needed. [[User:TheDoctor|TheDoctor]] 12:00, 11 March 2012 (PDT)
: Yes, it is already designed to support that but no one has added any other languages except English (so {{tlx|Lang icon|en}} works in the page's language). If you look at the contents of the template you should be able to figure out how to add translations for other language names, not just "English". &ndash; [[User:Fashnek|<span style="text-size:1.5em;font-weight:bold;color:#363;text-shadow:0 0 0.8em #6c6;">fashnek</span>]] <sub>([[User talk:Fashnek|talk]]&#183;[[Special:Contributions/Fashnek|c]])</sub> 09:55, 17 March 2012 (PDT)

== "Random Page" button will never give any english pages ==

For the last 20 or so times I hit the random page button, '''none''' of the pages I got were in english.

I just thought I should say that, as that gets extremely annoying. Especially if it happens every single time, like it is now.--[[User:Iamgoofball|Iamgoofball]] 21:32, 11 March 2012 (PDT)

:It's a software limitation. This happens because there are more translated articles than there are original, English ones. We can't do much about it. [[User:r4wrz0rz0r|<span style="color:black;border:2px solid black">I eat derpcakes</span>]] 15:17, 13 March 2012 (PDT)

::It may be a software limitation, but it pretty much makes the random page button useless. [[User:Calq|Calq]] 15:37, 15 March 2012 (PDT)
:::Solution: Don't use it. [[User:r4wrz0rz0r|<span style="color:black;border:2px solid black">I eat derpcakes</span>]] 15:39, 15 March 2012 (PDT)
::::[[Team Fortress Wiki:Discussion/Archive 2#The problem with Languages|This]] [[Team Fortress Wiki:Discussion/Archive 4#Random Page gives mostly non-English pages|was]] [[Team Fortress Wiki:Discussion/Archive 8#Have the "Random Page" button only direct you to pages in your selected language|discussed]] [[Team Fortress Wiki:Discussion/Archive 11#Random Page?|before]]; a script to fix this has been created, but since we don't have server access and rely on Valve implement it (and they aren't answering us), there's nothing we can do about it. {{n}} [[User:EpicEric|<span style="color:#5885A2;font-size:15px;font-family:'Trebuchet MS';text-shadow:#e3e3e3 1px 1px 0px;"><b>Epic Eric</b></span>]] <small> ([[User talk:EpicEric|T]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/EpicEric|C]])</small> 15:47, 15 March 2012 (PDT)

== Bundles Template (lang. switched) ==

I just saw that the german page of the Bundle is outdated and the Prices and Availability changes, and to keep it in all languages correct, i would find it great if there would be a template for it. Also for new Bundles it would be great to have at least all Bundles listed, instead of not seeing all content. Soooo someone here to support my idea??? [[User:TheDoctor|TheDoctor]] 05:41, 12 March 2012 (PDT)

== Idea: A real 3D model viewer for weapons and hats ==

This is just an idea. Nothing that I have the power to even attempt to understand.

A discussion in IRC led me to think about having a JavaScript model viewer - like HLMV in your browser. Theoretically the user would be able to move the model in true 360 degrees, jigglebones and paints and all. We could have a version based on WebGL, and another based on 2D canvas. (Have no idea what I just said? WebGL is a newer web technology that takes advantage of the graphics card for 3D images. 2D canvas is slightly older and not as optimized for 3D images, but is supported more than WebGL.) If WebGL was not supported the other version of the model viewer would load instead.

Here's the problem: ''Somebody needs to code it.''

Now, that's not to say from scratch; [http://blog.tojicode.com/2011/09/source-engine-in-webgl-tech-talk.html Source rendering in JavaScript has been done]. However, the code must drastically change for our purposes. I'd like to see from the community whether you think it might be worth it to contact the guy who created a Team Fortress map with JavaScript, and to otherwise pursue the idea of this model viewer.

Please discuss. I have no idea what you will say, and I won't until you say it! {{user:r4wrz0rz0r/sig/actual}} 09:00, 18 March 2012 (PDT)
:The issue with that is someone needs to code all the shaders too, otherwise the models won't actually look like they do ingame. I'm not opposed to that, but it's a lot of work for whoever takes that on. It would make the workflow of generating the 3d models a heck of a lot easier. I think a webGL viewer is too heavy for the wiki though, I've also had a lot of issues with them. '''<span style="font-family:Georgia;font-size:83%;">—[[File:User Moussekateer signature sprite.png|31px|link=User:Moussekateer]][[User:Moussekateer|<span style="color:black">Moussekateer</span>]]·[[User talk:Moussekateer|<span style="color:black;font-size:82%;">talk</span>]]</span>''' 09:42, 18 March 2012 (PDT)

I'd just like to point out that [http://tf2stats.net/model/Proof-of-Purchase/471 this has been done] (albeit with many bugs and the like). {{user:r4wrz0rz0r/sig/actual}} 11:23, 30 March 2012 (PDT)

== Image Consistency: Part Deux ==

Further to the discussion I started a few weeks ago, most of the image names for all Hats and Miscellaneous Items are now named consistently - much kudos to [[User:FreeXMan|FreeXMan]] for moving all the files I marked as incorrect. There are just a few more files to be done - these are ones which are actually missing and need to be made from scratch, so if anyone who uploads images for the Wiki could have a go at some it would be appreciated. There are 4 to do:
*[[Lo-Fi Longwave]] ([[:File:Lo-Fi Longwave.png]])
*[[Gold Dueling Badge]] ([[:File:Gold Dueling Badge.png]]) {{c|done}}
*[[Tournament Medal - GWJ Tournament]] ([[:File:Tournament Medal - GWJ Tournament.png]]) {{c|done}}
*[[Merc Medal]] ([[:File:Merc Medal.png]]) {{c|done}}

Once the last of these have been uploaded, the '''{{[[Template:Item infobox|Item infobox]]}}''' can be modified as needed to hard-code the images into it. That should save someone the effort of going through every page in every language and changing all the filenames before all 216 of the old redirects are deleted. '''» [[User:Cooper Kid|<span style="color:red">Coo</span><span style ="color:gray">per</span><span style ="color:blue"> Kid</span>]]''' <small>([[User_talk:Cooper Kid|blether]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Cooper Kid|contreebs]])</small> 09:34, 18 March 2012 (PDT)
:Again this seems like a lot of work for very very little benefit, template and usability wise. Also there is nothing inherently wrong with redirects, that's what they're there for. '''<span style="font-family:Georgia;font-size:83%;">—[[File:User Moussekateer signature sprite.png|31px|link=User:Moussekateer]][[User:Moussekateer|<span style="color:black">Moussekateer</span>]]·[[User talk:Moussekateer|<span style="color:black;font-size:82%;">talk</span>]]</span>''' 09:48, 18 March 2012 (PDT)
::The paint gallery and item icon templates have images coded directly into them, which makes them easier to use and update. I'm just trying to get a similar thing working here. Once it's done, it's done, but the work will only get harder the longer it's left. '''» [[User:Cooper Kid|<span style="color:red">Coo</span><span style ="color:gray">per</span><span style ="color:blue"> Kid</span>]]''' <small>([[User_talk:Cooper Kid|blether]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Cooper Kid|contreebs]])</small> 09:54, 18 March 2012 (PDT)
:::The item icon and paint gallery templates are a completely different situation. They need to have consistent naming because the former template is used extensively across the wiki and the latter is 30 or more images used on a single page. In those cases consistent naming makes absolute sense. Single images used on single pages did not need that ridiculous amount of unnecessary work. The image name is highly unlikely to change once set on the page and as far as I can tell the only benefit all that work gave was for the sake of a random image picking template. Consistency is nice but not at the sake of common sense. '''<span style="font-family:Georgia;font-size:83%;">—[[File:User Moussekateer signature sprite.png|31px|link=User:Moussekateer]][[User:Moussekateer|<span style="color:black">Moussekateer</span>]]·[[User talk:Moussekateer|<span style="color:black;font-size:82%;">talk</span>]]</span>''' 13:39, 18 March 2012 (PDT)
::::That does make absolute sense. But what about the Backpack images? There's only one of them in each userbox, and it essentially serves the same purpose. Anyway, it's done now - all we need is a couple of new images to finish off. '''» [[User:Cooper Kid|<span style="color:red">Coo</span><span style ="color:gray">per</span><span style ="color:blue"> Kid</span>]]''' <small>([[User_talk:Cooper Kid|blether]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Cooper Kid|contreebs]])</small> 15:38, 19 March 2012 (PDT)

== Single paint colours with team variance ==

Some hats/miscs look different on RED and BLU, even with non-team paints applied. On hats like [[Whoopee Cap]] and [[Bombing Run]], it's absolutely fine, as you can still see the paint colour. However, on [[Defiant Spartan]] (for example), the way it's set up for painting leads to '''completely different''' colours with the same non-team paint, on different teams. I propose this template to either replace the existing one in the article, or be linked on a subpage: [[User:Rebmcr/Template:Painted_variants/team]]. Please note that I'm only proposing this for the really different ones, NOT for Whoopee, Bombing, etc. [[User:Rebmcr|<span style="font-family:&#34;TF2 Build&#34;,sans-serif;font-size:120%"><span style="color:#FF2A55;">reb</span><span style="color:#002A55;">mcr</span></span>]] 15:20, 18 March 2012 (PDT)
:{{c|Support}} for all hats that change with teams. {{user:r4wrz0rz0r/sig/actual}} 15:31, 18 March 2012 (PDT)
::No, there's no point if just a decal changes. This is only for if the actual paint colour changes. [[User:Rebmcr|<span style="font-family:&#34;TF2 Build&#34;,sans-serif;font-size:120%"><span style="color:#FF2A55;">reb</span><span style="color:#002A55;">mcr</span></span>]] 15:33, 18 March 2012 (PDT)
:::All hats that change with teams ''even when painted.'' {{user:r4wrz0rz0r/sig/actual}} 15:36, 18 March 2012 (PDT)

== Language Switched Template Bundles List ==

I saw that in other languages([[Bundles/ko|ko]],[[Bundles/ja|ja]] etc...) the price list and other things didnt worked out nice. So i made a template for it which is really simple but works excellent. I could replace the old bulky texts on the [[Bundles]] site, and shift it into a new place to support general updated sites on all languages, with still the possibility to add notes or other things. Here my template: [[User:TheDoctor/Template:bundletest]] . I will apply this template to every translated page if i get the okay from some moderators about it. Please tell me what you think about it, it's my first language switched template. [[User:TheDoctor|TheDoctor]] 16:54, 18 March 2012 (PDT)
:{{c|Support}} It doesn't really affect me personally, because language switching, but I like it. This should definitively be initialized. [[File:User_M-NINJA_Signature.png|link=User:M-NINJA]] 17:38, 18 March 2012 (PDT)
::Pilk said it's okay, so i added it. Discussion is closed i guess. [[User:TheDoctor|TheDoctor]] 03:25, 19 March 2012 (PDT)

== New wiki homepage ==

As you may have seen my edit spamming, Pilk and I have been making a [[User:Lexar/Main_Page/Template:Benjas|New Wiki Mainpage]] based off a design made by Benjamoose. 
features:
- can squish down down while looking good still down to 550px wide (which is the minimum width it can shrink to)
- Uses divs not a table or 2, this provides dynamics to the page, making the formatting work better for your browser
- according to some users (i cannot test this myself ='( ) it is compatible with mobile browsers!
- the color scheme looks cleaner therefore a better and easier to navigate page (everyone likes easier navigation right?)
- uses a custom font Blackoak for the headers see [http://downloads.thedalokohsclub.com/Wiki_Design3_5.png this image] for reference

so, feedback would be much apppreciated =) '''<span style="font-family:aharoni; font-size:110%; font-style:italic;">[[File:RED Überneedle.png|42px|link=User:Lexar]] - <span style="text-decoration:underline">[[User:Lexar|Lexar]]</span> - <span style="text-decoration:underline">[[User talk:Lexar|talk]]</span></span>''' 05:59, 23 March 2012 (PDT)

:Looks great, but I would suggest making the class bar of another colour but grey. It looks a little bland like that. -- [[User:OluapPlayer|<font color="red">'''OluapPlayer'''</font>]] <sub>([[User_talk:OluapPlayer|t]])</sub> {{adm}} [[File:User OluapPlayer Sig.png|Howdy, pardner!]] 06:02, 23 March 2012 (PDT)

:I'm actually in favour of a more understated, minimalist colour scheme. I also '''heartily''' support divs over tables. [[User:Rebmcr|<span style="font-family:&#34;TF2 Build&#34;,sans-serif;font-size:120%"><span style="color:#FF2A55;">reb</span><span style="color:#002A55;">mcr</span></span>]] 06:18, 23 March 2012 (PDT)
::Additional- A different colour scheme would also help to differentiate ourselves from the ''other'' wiki.[[User:Rebmcr|<span style="font-family:&#34;TF2 Build&#34;,sans-serif;font-size:120%"><span style="color:#FF2A55;">reb</span><span style="color:#002A55;">mcr</span></span>]] 06:20, 23 March 2012 (PDT)

{{C|Oppose|Very Strong Oppose}} - Minimalistic color scheme for a wiki about such a colorful game is stupid. The proposal is very dim, not welcoming at all (a main page should be welcoming). The current main page is much easier readable. [[User:SiPlus|SiPlus]] 06:44, 23 March 2012 (PDT)
:{{c|Support}} using divs, {{c|Oppose}} the new look of the page. It's nice, and obviously had a lot of work put into it, but it makes sense to keep the current colour scheme, as every table on the wiki uses that nice orange from the logo. The main page should carry the same colours, in my opinion. '''» [[User:Cooper Kid|<span style="color:red">Coo</span><span style ="color:gray">per</span><span style ="color:blue"> Kid</span>]]''' <small>([[User_talk:Cooper Kid|blether]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Cooper Kid|contreebs]])</small> 09:59, 23 March 2012 (PDT)
{{C|Support}} layout, gradients and sleek look, {{C|Oppose|oppose}} current color scheme. Perhaps some non-grayscale colors and an interesting image background would spice things up. {{user:r4wrz0rz0r/sig/actual}} 10:35, 23 March 2012 (PDT)

{{C|Support|Can agree}} but {{C|In Progress|....}}, I want the new homepage to be more of a new skin to the Wiki users. The new homepage should be chosen by options set by users and what they would prefer, so I will vote for Skin Setting on this new, swaggish homepage. [[File:User Ravecrib9t4 Signature Logo.JPG |60px]] [[User:Ravecrib9t4|<span style="font-family:TF2 Build; color:#141414 ">TNS</span>]] 23:34, 11 April 2012 (PDT)

== This May Sound Crazy But, I propose Strange Crafting. ==

Honestly, As a Strange Lover, I think a player should be able to craft 2 Stranges of the same class into a strange scrap, And Craft Strange Scrap into Strange Rec, And use that Strange Reclaimed metal in the crafting recipe of the weapons you want, as long as there is a STrnage Variant of that weapon. For example, You should be able to use that strange Rec in the PowerJack Recipe with an axtinguisher, and get Strange PowerJack, But you would NOT be able to use it in a Righteous bison recipe because there is no strange variant. What Would make this an even easier concept is if there was either  A.) A Whole New Tab For Strange Crafting, (right next to the Tab for Crafting Halloween  Items) or B.) When you click on an item in the craft page, there should be a recipe UNDER the Normal recipe which calls for a strange variant of the metal required to make the weapon originally. An Even Better Solution so as not to change crafting so much, the Alternative crafting recipe could call for a regular metal, but a Strange variant of the weapon used in crafting, So a Strange Loch-N-Load could be made from either the first Option for Strange crafting: Strange Reclaimed Metal, and a Unique Scottish resistance, or the alternative: A Normal Reclaimed Metal, and a Strange Scottish Resistance... Any thoughts? <small>— ''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' '''[[User:Barkatsuki|Barkatsuki]]''' ([[User talk:Barkatsuki|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Barkatsuki|contribs]]) </small>
* Please sign your posts, and remember, we just document TF2, we don't decide how it works.[[User:Rebmcr|<span style="font-family:&#34;TF2 Build&#34;,sans-serif;font-size:120%"><span style="color:#FF2A55;">reb</span><span style="color:#002A55;">mcr</span></span>]] 13:19, 24 March 2012 (PDT)
{{c|+|Interesting.}} I must say, this is quite a good idea. However, if it's just for the weapon and not for the strange attribute, insted of paying, say, 1 scrap for a Frontier, you'll pay 2 rec or hell, even a ref. I guess people can do this calculation in mind though, so it's not that big of a deal. I can imagine it right now. Now tell this to valve. [[File:Nemesis_RED.png|link=http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/User:RocketStickyJumper|35px]][[User:RocketStickyJumper|<span style="color:#5885A2;font-size:16px;font-family:'TF2 Build';text-shadow:#e3e3e3 1px 1px 0px;"><b>Rocket Sticky Jumper</b></span>]] <small>[[User_talk:RocketStickyJumper|Talk]]</small> 06:08, 29 March 2012 (PDT)

:The wiki is not an appropriate place for discussion on gameplay/item/crafting ideas. [http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=80 SPUF] is a much better place for that. -- [[User:Pilk|Pilk]] <sup>([[User talk:Pilk|talk]])</sup> 09:33, 10 April 2012 (PDT)
::Ze besser place iz alwayz ze SPUF :D [[File:User Ravecrib9t4 Signature Logo.JPG |60px]] [[User:Ravecrib9t4|<span style="font-family:TF2 Build; color:#141414 ">TNS</span>]] 23:37, 11 April 2012 (PDT)

== A note on the different weapon list templates ==

On [[Template:Weapon list]] the Sapper is listed as PDA, yet on [[Template:Allweapons Nav]] it's listed as a secondary weapon. The Spy's revolvers are also listed as secondary weapons on Template:Weapon list, but as primary weapons on Template:Allweapons Nav. There's also no PDA2 slot on Template:Weapon list. So on Template:Weapon list the Sapper, Disguise Kit and the Spy's watches all end up being listed under PDA. [[User:Adreadline|Adreadline]] 08:48, 27 March 2012 (PDT)

== Should we list current (and possibly past) owners of [[Dueler|the]] [[Gifting Man From Gifting Land|new]] [[Philateler|hats]]? ==

Title says all. A discussion in IRC led me to start this discussion since there wasn't a clear consensus as to what we would do.

Please, please oh please put in your two cents. {{user:r4wrz0rz0r/sig/actual}} 15:31, 28 March 2012 (PDT)
: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvdf5n-zI14 [[User:SS2R|SS2R]] 15:32, 28 March 2012 (PDT)
: No.&ndash; [[User:Fashnek|<span style="text-size:1.5em;font-weight:bold;color:#363;text-shadow:0 0 0.8em #6c6;">fashnek</span>]] <sub>([[User talk:Fashnek|talk]]&#183;[[Special:Contributions/Fashnek|c]])</sub> 15:33, 28 March 2012 (PDT)
:{{c|Neutral}} ''No'' to recording past ones (who cares?), ''maybe'' to mark down current owner '''if it is possible to script this''' or else it will get forgotten. It is AFAIK not possible to script this right now, so no. — [[User:WindPower|<span style="font-weight:bold;">Wind</span>]] 15:34, 28 March 2012 (PDT)
:{{c|Nope}} That sounds like after this first week it would be awful to keep track of and update. Also, I don't see it to be very notable. [[File:User_M-NINJA_Signature.png|link=User:M-NINJA]] 15:35, 28 March 2012 (PDT)
:{{c|x|I disagree.}} I don't know who would like to know that, exepct from trolls or scammers, but if there weren't any of these scammers, I'll just say it's pointless, with all respect. [[File:Nemesis_RED.png|link=http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/User:RocketStickyJumper|35px]][[User:RocketStickyJumper|<span style="color:#5885A2;font-size:16px;font-family:'TF2 Build';text-shadow:#e3e3e3 1px 1px 0px;"><b>Rocket Sticky Jumper</b></span>]] <small>[[User_talk:RocketStickyJumper|Talk]]</small> 06:01, 29 March 2012 (PDT)
:{{c|x|heckno.ogg}} I also think this is pointless, and would only be useful to trolls ("hurr durr trade me this hat omg"). [[File:Userimg-real alien.jpg|25px]] [[User:Real alien|<span style="font-family:TF2 Build; color:#3366cc ">real_alien</span>]] ([[User talk:Real alien|T]]/[[Special:Contributions/Real alien|C]]) 06:07, 29 March 2012 (PDT)
:{{c|Neutral|Mebbe.mpg}} Ctrl+C Ctrl+V what Wind said. Though it's probably impossible to script something like that, seeing as those items are weird and all. {{n}} [[User:EpicEric|<span style="color:#5885A2;font-size:15px;font-family:'Trebuchet MS';text-shadow:#e3e3e3 1px 1px 0px;"><b>Epic Eric</b></span>]] <small> ([[User talk:EpicEric|T]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/EpicEric|C]])</small> 18:56, 29 March 2012 (PDT)
:{{c|Neutral}} Interesting idea and probably would be good to have, but impossible to maintain. Someone would have to hunt for the current owner every day, and that would be impossible. [[User:Balladofwindfishes|Balladofwindfishes]] 05:09, 30 March 2012 (PDT)

== AAAnd... Can't find anything to do. ==

Hello, my name is Rocket Sticky Jumper (RSJ) and I just signed to the wiki about a week ago. I've been playing TF2 for about 1010 hours now(!) and I thought I can help here a lot through my knowledge. Though, searching through the '''two forts''' of knowledge, I haven't found anything to edit or create. Ideas to do here, maybe? 

Thanks, [[File:Nemesis_RED.png|link=http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/User:RocketStickyJumper|35px]][[User:RocketStickyJumper|<span style="color:#5885A2;font-size:16px;font-family:'TF2 Build';text-shadow:#e3e3e3 1px 1px 0px;"><b>Rocket Sticky Jumper</b></span>]] <small>[[User_talk:RocketStickyJumper|Talk]]</small> 05:56, 29 March 2012 (PDT)
:There's a [[Team Fortress Wiki:Tasks|task list]] for this - there aren't many requests there at the moment but it does list a few ongoing tasks which need to be kept in check, so take a look and see what you can do. '''» [[User:Cooper Kid|<span style="color:red">Coo</span><span style ="color:gray">per</span><span style ="color:blue"> Kid</span>]]''' <small>([[User_talk:Cooper Kid|blether]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Cooper Kid|contreebs]])</small> 06:17, 29 March 2012 (PDT)
:Thanks, but I know about the task list, not much things I specify in (Weapons-Patches-Updates) need cleaning up or expanding. [[File:Nemesis_RED.png|link=http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/User:RocketStickyJumper|35px]][[User:RocketStickyJumper|<span style="color:#5885A2;font-size:16px;font-family:'TF2 Build';text-shadow:#e3e3e3 1px 1px 0px;"><b>Rocket Sticky Jumper</b></span>]] <small>[[User_talk:RocketStickyJumper|Talk]]</small>
::If anyone else is reading this, the Community Strategy pages need tons of cleanup in both the gameplay and english departments. I've revamped several strategy articles in the past, which is why Basic Strategy looks presentable, but the Community Strategy pages are impossible due to their length and large amounts of things I'd attempt to change. -- [[User:InShane|InShane]] 08:04, 3 April 2012 (PDT)


There are a lot of community website pages that need to be created or fleshed out. --[[User:Fiskie|Fiskie]] <sup>[[User talk:Fiskie|Talk]] :: [[Special:Contributions/Fiskie|Contribs]]</sup>  08:49, 3 April 2012 (PDT)

== Templatizing common phrases/sentences for items ==

This is an issue brought up by [[User:Stormbird|Stormbird]]. The suggestion is to replace common phrases with translated templates that may be transcluded onto item pages. An example is the current [http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Template:Halloween_restricted Halloween Restricted Template] which is placed on any Halloween restricted item. Stormbird had created templates such as:

* <nowiki>{{Template:Weapon change destroys buildings}}</nowiki> --> Switching from this weapon to a different melee weapon will destroy all existing buildings.
* <nowiki>{{Temporary item day}}</nowiki> -->  Possession of the hat is not permanent and is limited to a single day.

And these templates would be translated and placed onto any applicable page. There are several pros and cons associated with this:

{{c|+}} Reduces minor errors on page creation

{{c|+}} Can correct a mistake across many articles

{{c|+}} Can change the text across many articles

{{c|-}} Can be confusing for editors when pages start to have more and more templates

{{c|-}} Possible page slowdown (Not sure how much of an issue this is)

What are your thoughts in having templates such as these? --{{User:Firestorm/sig}} 10:26, 30 March 2012 (PDT)
:{{c|Neutral}} I like the Halloween restricted template because it's tiresome to change the same thing 29 times, but there aren't many articles for the two above (6 and 3), and those lines are relatively short. Until there are more articles with the same phrase or longer phrases, I think we can trust the users to make changes. [[User:Tabs|Tabs]] 18:13, 1 April 2012 (PDT)
:{{c|Neutral}} Same as Tabs said - I made the Halloween restricted template simply because there were so many items that use it. I'm not against using a similar thing for more items but templates like the '''<nowiki>{{Temporary item day}}</nowiki>''' one will only be on 3 articles, which isn't really worth the hassle at this point. '''» [[User:Cooper Kid|<span style="color:red">Coo</span><span style ="color:gray">per</span><span style ="color:blue"> Kid</span>]]''' <small>([[User_talk:Cooper Kid|blether]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Cooper Kid|contreebs]])</small> 10:19, 10 April 2012 (PDT)
::Not really. Multiply it by — how many languages do we have?&nbsp;—&nbsp;[[File:Login_Soldier.png|link=User:Stormbird]][[User:Stormbird|<span style="color:#5B885B;font-size:13px;font-family:'Arial';font-weight: bold;">Stormbird</span>]] <sup><span style="background:#5B885B; color:white; font-size:8px; padding-left: 2px; padding-right: 2px; padding-bottom: 1px">[[User talk:Stormbird|<span style="color:white">T</span>]]│[[Special:Contributions/Stormbird|<span style="color:white">C</span>]]</span></sup> 12:19, 10 April 2012 (PDT)

== Templete Idea: WikiBreak ==

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikibreak|"WikiBreak"] is a term used to describe a break from Wikipedia, and since this is a Wiki project, I thought it'll be great to add this temeplete on here:
<pre>
{{Wiki Break|7|Exam Prepration}}
</pre>

'''Will produce:'''

{{Wiki Break|7|Exam Prepration}}

So, questions about this idea:

# Do you think this will work (Aka: will you actually use this?)
# Wikipedia has different Wikibreak templetes for different events, i.e. Medical Surgery/illness, Exams, School etc. Should I make some too? [[File:Nemesis_RED.png|link=http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/User:RocketStickyJumper|35px]][[User:RocketStickyJumper|<span style="color:#5885A2;font-size:16px;font-family:'TF2 Build';text-shadow:#e3e3e3 1px 1px 0px;"><b>Rocket Sticky Jumper</b></span>]] <small>[[User_talk:RocketStickyJumper|Talk]]</small> 11:40, 31 March 2012 (PDT)
: Well, I would have used this last week... [[User:Rebmcr|<span style="font-family:&#34;TF2 Build&#34;,sans-serif;font-size:120%"><span style="color:#FF2A55;">reb</span><span style="color:#002A55;">mcr</span></span>]] 04:45, 1 April 2012 (PDT)

I did make this as a userbox before, somewhat.

{{User Vacation|Hurr Durr}}

--[[User:Fiskie|Fiskie]] <sup>[[User talk:Fiskie|Talk]] :: [[Special:Contributions/Fiskie|Contribs]]</sup>  08:51, 3 April 2012 (PDT)

{{discussion close|footer}}