Talk:Community Mann vs. Machine strategy

2 or 1 Hazard Area

is there 2 or 1 hazard area in coal town for pyro to airblast? Hecarimz 08:07, 20 August 2012 (PDT)

I've only seen one. dendodge 10:04, 20 August 2012 (PDT)

I've seen, and fallen in, both. One on the left lane, one on the far area of the bomb-site square, too far to airblast easily from the hole itself, though. Sinez 16:49, 21 August 2012 (PDT)

I request Community strategy

Some sections on this page are edited with community tips, could there be a Community Strategy for classes and weapons? TNS 09:12, 23 August 2012 (PDT)

Spy tips

The spy tips say "Whichever disguise you decide to use is largely irrelevant", then goes on to suggest pyro or engy. If disguise doesn't matter, wouldn't scout always be the best option, since it gives a speed boost?

Also, does anybody know if sapped robots give a bonus with the Diamondback? --Itsacon 02:28, 27 August 2012 (PDT)

Scout disguises do NOT give speed boosts; it's actually a way to tell a fake Scout from a real one. As for the Diamondback, I'm not sure. ShadowGlove 05:08, 27 August 2012 (PDT)

I always thought you got a small speed boost, but not the full scout speed. But I just read Disguise again, and you are, obviously, right. We live and learn... --Itsacon 00:07, 29 August 2012 (PDT)

Disguising as a scout works just fine in MvM. I prefer disguising as a scout because I don't know how speed upgrades are affected by your disguise, and scout is the fastest movement option --Ohpleez 03:10, 28 November 2012 (PST)

Diamondback does not give any bonus crits from sapped robots. --Piemanmoo 13:03, 30 August 2012 (PDT)

Upgraded Buff Banner

First Soldier Combinaison : "The upgraded banner enables Mini-Crits for the whole team", I could be wrong, but is it really necessary to upgrade Buff Banner for sharing mini-crits for the whole team ? Brucelian 04:39, 30 August 2012 (PDT)

In my experience, it doesn't actually affect your whole team, instead using its regular radius. ==Fax Celestis _talkcontrib^home 12:04, 30 August 2012 (PDT)

But the only upgrade which exists for the Buff Banner just increase the buff duration.Brucelian 12:43, 30 August 2012 (PDT)

Right. Does that say anything about increased radius? No. ==Fax Celestis _talkcontrib^home 16:28, 30 August 2012 (PDT)

As far as I'm aware, there was at launch an option to upgrade the Banner to affect the whole team, but it was swiftly removed. I could be wrong, but the point is that no such option exists now. This tip should be removed. ==Reginald Cuftbert 11:14, 23 Septemper 2012 (PDT)

Bot Symbols

We need to add the symbols for the different bots next to their titles. I'd do it myself but it's late and I don't know where to find them. Any help either way would be appreciated. Guybrush20X6 16:34, 11 November 2012 (PST)

Scout tips

There are some major flaws in the scout tips:

"consider dumping all your money into resistances and move speed and using a bat or Frying Pan"

Melee is never a good idea in MvM, and a scout who doesn't use the Fan O'War is just a bad scout. Also resistences are pretty expensive in the beginning, milk and speed / jump upgrades are more important and cheaper. You can dodge projectiles, so later you should prefer bullet resistences.

"The Special Delivery item set can be very useful because of the +25 health effect."

A scout not using the Fan O'War for marking is a bad scout, the health bonus is negligible.

"Once upgraded, a hit from the Sandman's ball marks a robot for death like the Fan O'War, meaning the robot will take mini-crits from your friends' weapons."

The upgrade costs 500 credits, which is VERY expensive. And marking with balls doesn't work as reliable as marking with the Fan O'War. The 15 hitpoints less are a major downside. Sandman doesn't stun robots, so it's by far not as useful as in PvP. It's an expensive toy, costing your team the game at least in expert.

"Using Bonk! Atomic Punch can allow you to serve as a distraction for giant bots, as well as grab credits without fear of being blasted to oblivion."

A scout without milk is useless. Slowdown via milking is one of the most important jobs of the scout. Milk upgrades have priority.

"As a Scout, you are usually the only one that can catch up to Scout Robots early in the mission."

If scout robots slip through your defense, your defense is bad and you will fail anyway. The scout doesn't have enough damage output to deal with more than one or two already damaged scout robots.

One more tip for the scattergun, which is the best primary in my opinion: Don't upgrade it unless you've fully upgraded your milk, speed, jumping and perhaps resistences. And because of the big clip size it's the better choice compared to the Force-A-Nature; you will tend to spend some money in your clipsize with the latter, which isn't needed for the scattergun. --Ohpleez 03:28, 28 November 2012 (PST)

Sorry, my bad

I just worked a bit on the page, I got a little hasty, and ignored a warning about overwriting some edits. Sorry about that, to whom it concerns. You'll have to do over. It was nothing personal, and if you were actually working on my edits, thats fine. Check the time stamp -> K-Raider NL 05:17, 13 December 2012 (PST)

Flaw in the engineer example combinations

The gunslinger cannot be under any circumstance a viable weapon in MvM mode. I suggest the removal of the combination which includes this weapon since it can misslead players looking for good strategy advice.

Other example combinations which I also find missleading in a MvM strategy guide are the medic equiping the Quick-Fix and the sniper equiping other weapon than Jarate as secondary. DankeEngineer 08:34, 15 December 2012 (PST)

If you think a loadout has flaws then note on it how it can be flawed in certain situations. The last thing we need is an elitist "only one loadout works" mindset. I personally have used gunslinger loadouts to good effect but I can see how in a lot of situations it'd be less than ideal. Guybrush20X6 02:27, 17 December 2012 (PST)

ROFL, obviously you don't ever play expert or even advanced. Your teammates would kick you instantely, and they would do well so. There are A LOT of loadouts which are simply plain bad and still promoted in the wiki because someone who never really played MvM thought "this must be a great idea!". Only a handful of loadouts and classes is really good, at least on expert. Concerning spies, snipers, medics: You must be a great one to compensate for the lack of plain firepower. Most of the time someone who goes one of theses classes (95%) he will not be credit to team and his teammates would have to compensate for him having fun, which they can't be forced to (so they may kick). And surprisingly you nearly always can tell so in advance, because he has zero or one tours under his belt. Just don't dare to advice people if you never really played the game, only because you "think" about it. Maybe read some SPUF threads about it, with real expert players saying something about it. --Ohpleez 05:57, 19 December 2012 (PST)

You are right Guybrush, I should have reasoned my declarations and I apologise for not doing so. Below I correct my mistake and explain the reasons for my point of view.

Two of the most valuable assets for a team in MvM mode are the abilities of tanking and dealing high amounts of damage per second (DPS). One classical engineer excels on these two abilities, being able to chew up hordes in a few seconds and to absorbe high amounts of damage indefinitely by repairing his sentry. By equiping the gunslinger one misses these two great assets and get the marginal advantage of a low building time which can be obtained by buying cheap build cantines and upgrading the attacking speed of the wrench.

In the case of the medic I must say first that I am not in favour of its inclussion since you miss one member able to dealing damage. It is true that the team members gain in survivality, but this task is more efficiently performed by scout's milk and dispensers which can heal more than one member at once. This said, IMO, the only equipment which could justify its choice is the KritzKrieg, to give back the damage he is denying to the team.

A similar reasoning applies to the SMG as secondary for the sniper. A good sniper with upgraded Jarate is credit to team since it slows the enemies and increases the amount of damage the team deals. On the other side equiping SMG/carbine is a bad decission, basically because you have a sniper rifle which can deal more DPS and has juicier upgrades. DankeEngineer 08:40, 18 December 2012 (PST)