Team Fortress Wiki talk:Policies

Extension of the Mod notability section to the broader Community content notability concept

See User:Mikado282/Sandbox/Community content notability guidelines

Moved discussion to Team Fortress Wiki talk:Policies/Community content notability guidelines#Extension of the Mod notability section to the broader Community content notability concept

Error on "Deletion policy" see also.

It should be {{see also|wikipedia:Wikipedia:Deletion policy|l1=Wikipedia:Deletion policy}} and not {{see also|Wikipedia:Deletion policy|l1=Wikipedia:Deletion policy}}. Right now it looks like...:

See also: Wikipedia:Deletion policy

{{see also|Wikipedia:Deletion policy|l1=Wikipedia:Deletion policy}}

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But it should be:

See also: Wikipedia:Deletion policy

{{see also|wikipedia:Wikipedia:Deletion policy|l1=Wikipedia:Deletion policy}}

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At the moment, the current link goes to "Deletion policy" on Wikipedia, and not "Wikipedia:Deletion policy", which should be the correct page. - ▪ - 14:23, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

 Done Thanks for the heads-up.  Wookipan (talk | contribs) 19:13, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

Usage of AI to assist in editing/creating content

In a discussion on the -staff IRC channel, we already agreed that using AI to recreate voice lines (such as the Demopan quote on the Spanish Community fads page) should not be allowed. The usage of "AI" here is not actually artificial intelligence, but more akin to Google Translate. I propose we "officially" ban the usage of any sort of language model or "AI" image generator/enhancer, seeing as we ban the automatic translation of pages I don't see why we wouldn't ban the automatic generation of English-space content either.

Valve's official policy is that, unless you can prove you have the rights to everything the model is trained on, a game that uses anything "AI"-generated is not allowed on Steam. I think we should either copy this policy or straight up forbid the usage of it at all (I'm more in favour of a complete ban). (Also, this might seem targeted considering recent edits, but I didn't expect AI to be used more than once for the Wiki. It's not meant to be a targeted thing).
| s | GrampaSwood (talk) (contribs) 11:30, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

AI shouldn't be used for any form of content to Wiki full stop, it's not exactly known for its 100% accuracy in a lot of the things you ask of it, I'm not quite sure why a ban on AI isn't already in place.
Cheddar (talk) 11:41, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

For generative AI (AI that can make images, sounds etc.), I think following Valve's wish is the way to go. And since they own the original content (software), we can safely assume they're against using it for training.

For AI in general, like language models, banning it is a bit premature. We should avoid cases where smeone just asks it to write an article and calls it a day, but using it for assistance just like any other tool is completely acceptable imo.

(Also, the usage here would be quite different from, say, Wikipedia, but there are a few ongoing discussions there that we should probably refer to: 3 2 1.) — Tark 15:50, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

"using AI" is a bit vague, at some point, perhaps in the more or less recent past, usign AI is insidious/endemic/inherent/integral to any present day internet-connected software tool.

• Use autocomplete text suggestions when writing a tfwiki edit? You are using AI, probably.
• Using online grammar checks when writing a tfwiki edit, including as-you-type online grammar-checks? You are using AI, probably.

If you click on any of the highlighted text or even just look at suggested changes or completions, you are probably using AI.

I do not know how to patrol a policy on any of that.

The low hanging fruit on this is in translation. I say this because we have had a long-standing injunction on machine translation and AI translation is just advanced machine translation.

So, we could add explicit mention of "including AI translations" to Help:Language translation#Automated translation tools.

Now, maybe part of the present concern of this thread is uploading of Community-created content that was partly or wholy created using AI technology (independent of the tfwiki), particularly voice lines and images. Now, this is more difficult. Given the abundance of "human-made" Community content out there based on any degree on Valve IP, come of which ceratinly has some touch of AI, however unintentional, I am not certain that more fully "AI-made" Community content should really be treated any differently.

Certainly, the starting point of using or covering AI-made Community content is any and all policy that applies to "human-made" Community content. So, please start there and suggest what policy extentions need to apply to AI-made Community content.

"But AI is trained on Valve IP!" What are Community developers trained on?

M I K A D O 282 ⊙⊙⊙⊙⊙⊙ ⊙⊙ ⊙⊙ (contact)(Help Wanted!) 17:32, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

PS, on a whim I asked an online AI, "Please, write a policy to apply to use of [redacted] when writing articles for the Official Team Fortress 2 wiki."

IDK if I should upload the result to the wiki; maybe I could put it in my user space, if I get that suggestion.

Either way, you can ask an AI yourself and just see what you get.

"Beep. Boop. I am a robot! I am here to take tfwiki jobs!"

M I K A D O 282 ⊙⊙⊙⊙⊙⊙ ⊙⊙ ⊙⊙ (contact)(Help Wanted!) 17:53, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

Using an online grammar checker or autosuggested text is not the same as the automatic generation of content, you're still mostly writing it up yourself, and thus is completely fine imo. Although I must say that I have seen an edit or two in the past of someone using an grammarly to "correct" pages, but it made many errors and clearly wasn't verified by a person, simply relying on the software to be correct. I know they did it this way, because I purposely went out of my way to ignore these grammarly suggestions knowing they were wrong, so I would still suggest at the very least being careful with this kind of stuff.

What I'm more talking about is (besides image/sound-related edits) is having entire sentences/paragraphs completely written by AI, or in the case of a recent edit asking ChatGPT to describe the colours of certain TF2 qualities. I'm not sure how we would handle AI-generated community content, my suggestion is that we only link to it and never host it directly.
| s | GrampaSwood (talk) (contribs) 18:15, 6 January 2024 (UTC)