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| − | == 2 or 1 Hazard Area == | + | {{Talk archive |
| | + | | arc1name = Archive 1 |
| | + | | arc1link = Talk:Community Mann vs. Machine strategy/Archive 1 |
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| − | is there 2 or 1 hazard area in coal town for pyro to airblast?
| + | == The melee range increased when charging as demoman == |
| − | [[File:Killicon_flaming_huntsmanhs.png|40px]][[User:Hecarimz|<span style="font-family:TF2 Build; color:#461BE0 ">He</span><span style="font-family:TF2 Build; color:#B8383B ">car</span><span style="font-family:TF2 Build; color:#000000">imz</span>]] 08:07, 20 August 2012 (PDT)
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| − | :I've only seen one. [[User:Dendodge|<em style="color:darkblue">den</em>]][[User talk:Dendodge|<em style="color:darkred">dodge</em>]] 10:04, 20 August 2012 (PDT)
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| − | ::I've seen, and fallen in, both. One on the left lane, one on the far area of the bomb-site square, too far to airblast easily from the hole itself, though. [[User:Sinez|Sinez]] 16:49, 21 August 2012 (PDT)
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| − | == I request Community strategy ==
| + | The thing about demoknight bots being able to make use of the melee range increase while charging isn't impossible to recreate as demoknight. It is actually really easy it's just charge when you are using a melee swing so the charge starts while your melee attack is still able to deal damage so it, M1+ a charge almost immediately after hitting M1 and your charge won't get canceled out by the attack and you get the full usage of the extended melee range. Should I include it in the Demoman part? |
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| − | Some sections on this page are edited with community tips, could there be a Community Strategy for classes and weapons? [[File:User Ravecrib9t4 Signature Logo.JPG |35px]] [[User:Ravecrib9t4|<span style="font-family:TF2 Build; color:#141414 ">TNS</span>]] 09:12, 23 August 2012 (PDT)
| + | [[User:Zarioo12|Zarioo12]] ([[User talk:Zarioo12|talk]]) 17:00, 21 March 2024 (UTC) |
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| − | == Spy tips ==
| + | :There's not much point.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] {{!}} [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] {{!}} [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 17:03, 21 March 2024 (UTC) |
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| − | The spy tips say "Whichever disguise you decide to use is largely irrelevant", then goes on to suggest pyro or engy. If disguise doesn't matter, wouldn't scout always be the best option, since it gives a speed boost?
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| − | Also, does anybody know if sapped robots give a bonus with the [[Diamondback]]? --[[User:Itsacon|Itsacon]] 02:28, 27 August 2012 (PDT)
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| − | :Scout disguises do NOT give speed boosts; it's actually a way to tell a fake Scout from a real one. As for the Diamondback, I'm not sure. [[User:ShadowGlove|ShadowGlove]] 05:08, 27 August 2012 (PDT)
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| − | ::I always thought you got a small speed boost, but not the full scout speed. But I just read [[Disguise]] again, and you are, obviously, right. We live and learn... --[[User:Itsacon|Itsacon]] 00:07, 29 August 2012 (PDT) | |
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| − | ::Disguising as a scout works just fine in MvM. I prefer disguising as a scout because I don't know how speed upgrades are affected by your disguise, and scout is the fastest movement option --[[User:Ohpleez|Ohpleez]] 03:10, 28 November 2012 (PST)
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| − | :Diamondback does not give any bonus crits from sapped robots. --'''[[User:Piemanmoo|Piemanmoo]]''' 13:03, 30 August 2012 (PDT)
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| − | == Upgraded Buff Banner == | |
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| − | First Soldier Combinaison : "The upgraded banner enables Mini-Crits for the whole team", I could be wrong, but is it really necessary to upgrade Buff Banner for sharing mini-crits for the whole team ? [[User:Brucelian|Brucelian]] 04:39, 30 August 2012 (PDT)
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| − | :In my experience, it doesn't actually affect your whole team, instead using its regular radius. ==[[User:FaxCelestis|Fax Celestis]] <sub>[[User_talk:FaxCelestis|talk]]</sub><small>[[Special:Contributions/FaxCelestis|contrib]]</small><sup>[http://wiki.faxcelestis.net/ home]</sup> 12:04, 30 August 2012 (PDT)
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| − | ::But the only upgrade which exists for the Buff Banner just increase the buff duration.[[User:Brucelian|Brucelian]] 12:43, 30 August 2012 (PDT)
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| − | :::Right. Does that say anything about increased radius? No. ==[[User:FaxCelestis|Fax Celestis]] <sub>[[User_talk:FaxCelestis|talk]]</sub><small>[[Special:Contributions/FaxCelestis|contrib]]</small><sup>[http://wiki.faxcelestis.net/ home]</sup> 16:28, 30 August 2012 (PDT)
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| − | ::::As far as I'm aware, there was at launch an option to upgrade the Banner to affect the whole team, but it was swiftly removed. I could be wrong, but the point is that no such option exists now. This tip should be removed. ==Reginald Cuftbert 11:14, 23 Septemper 2012 (PDT)
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| − | == Bot Symbols ==
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| − | We need to add the symbols for the different bots next to their titles. I'd do it myself but it's late and I don't know where to find them. Any help either way would be appreciated. [[User:Guybrush20X6|Guybrush20X6]] 16:34, 11 November 2012 (PST)
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| − | == Scout tips ==
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| − | There are some major flaws in the scout tips:
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| − | :"consider dumping all your money into resistances and move speed and using a bat or Frying Pan"
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| − | ::Melee is never a good idea in MvM, and a scout who doesn't use the Fan O'War is just a bad scout. Also resistences are pretty expensive in the beginning, milk and speed / jump upgrades are more important and cheaper. You can dodge projectiles, so later you should prefer bullet resistences.
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| − | :"The Special Delivery item set can be very useful because of the +25 health effect."
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| − | ::A scout not using the Fan O'War for marking is a bad scout, the health bonus is negligible.
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| − | :"Once upgraded, a hit from the Sandman's ball marks a robot for death like the Fan O'War, meaning the robot will take mini-crits from your friends' weapons."
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| − | ::The upgrade costs 500 credits, which is VERY expensive. And marking with balls doesn't work as reliable as marking with the Fan O'War. The 15 hitpoints less are a major downside. Sandman doesn't stun robots, so it's by far not as useful as in PvP. It's an expensive toy, costing your team the game at least in expert.
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| − | :"Using Bonk! Atomic Punch can allow you to serve as a distraction for giant bots, as well as grab credits without fear of being blasted to oblivion."
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| − | ::A scout without milk is useless. Slowdown via milking is one of the most important jobs of the scout. Milk upgrades have priority.
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| − | :"As a Scout, you are usually the only one that can catch up to Scout Robots early in the mission."
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| − | ::If scout robots slip through your defense, your defense is bad and you will fail anyway. The scout doesn't have enough damage output to deal with more than one or two already damaged scout robots.
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| − | One more tip for the scattergun, which is the best primary in my opinion: Don't upgrade it unless you've fully upgraded your milk, speed, jumping and perhaps resistences. And because of the big clip size it's the better choice compared to the Force-A-Nature; you will tend to spend some money in your clipsize with the latter, which isn't needed for the scattergun. --[[User:Ohpleez|Ohpleez]] 03:28, 28 November 2012 (PST)
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| − | == Sorry, my bad ==
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| − | I just worked a bit on the page, I got a little hasty, and ignored a warning about overwriting some edits. Sorry about that, to whom it concerns. You'll have to do over. It was nothing personal, and if you were actually working on my edits, thats fine. Check the time stamp -> [[User:K-Raider NL|K-Raider NL]] 05:17, 13 December 2012 (PST)
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| − | == Flaw in the engineer example combinations ==
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| − | The gunslinger cannot be under any circumstance a viable weapon in MvM mode. I suggest the removal of the combination which includes this weapon since it can misslead players looking for good strategy advice.
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| − | Other example combinations which I also find missleading in a MvM strategy guide are the medic equiping the Quick-Fix and the sniper equiping other weapon than Jarate as secondary. [[User:DankeEngineer|DankeEngineer]] 08:34, 15 December 2012 (PST)
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| − | If you think a loadout has flaws then note on it how it can be flawed in certain situations. The last thing we need is an elitist "only one loadout works" mindset. I personally have used gunslinger loadouts to good effect but I can see how in a lot of situations it'd be less than ideal. [[User:Guybrush20X6|Guybrush20X6]] 02:27, 17 December 2012 (PST)
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| − | :ROFL, obviously you don't ever play expert or even advanced. Your teammates would kick you instantely, and they would do well so. There are A LOT of loadouts which are simply plain bad and still promoted in the wiki because someone who never really played MvM thought "this must be a great idea!". Only a handful of loadouts and classes is really good, at least on expert. Concerning spies, snipers, medics: You must be a great one to compensate for the lack of plain firepower. Most of the time someone who goes one of theses classes (95%) he will not be credit to team and his teammates would have to compensate for him having fun, which they can't be forced to (so they may kick). And surprisingly you nearly always can tell so in advance, because he has zero or one tours under his belt. Just don't dare to advice people if you never really played the game, only because you "think" about it. Maybe read some SPUF threads about it, with real expert players saying something about it. --[[User:Ohpleez|Ohpleez]] 05:57, 19 December 2012 (PST)
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| − | You are right Guybrush, I should have reasoned my declarations and I apologise for not doing so. Below I correct my mistake and explain the reasons for my point of view.
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| − | Two of the most valuable assets for a team in MvM mode are the abilities of tanking and dealing high amounts of damage per second (DPS). One classical engineer excels on these two abilities, being able to chew up hordes in a few seconds and to absorbe high amounts of damage indefinitely by repairing his sentry. By equiping the gunslinger one misses these two great assets and get the marginal advantage of a low building time which can be obtained by buying cheap build cantines and upgrading the attacking speed of the wrench.
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| − | In the case of the medic I must say first that I am not in favour of its inclussion since you miss one member able to dealing damage. It is true that the team members gain in survivality, but this task is more efficiently performed by scout's milk and dispensers which can heal more than one member at once. This said, IMO, the only equipment which could justify its choice is the KritzKrieg, to give back the damage he is denying to the team.
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| − | A similar reasoning applies to the SMG as secondary for the sniper. A good sniper with upgraded Jarate is credit to team since it slows the enemies and increases the amount of damage the team deals. On the other side equiping SMG/carbine is a bad decission, basically because you have a sniper rifle which can deal more DPS and has juicier upgrades. [[User:DankeEngineer|DankeEngineer]] 08:40, 18 December 2012 (PST)
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| − | == On the modification of the example combinations ==
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| − | Should the example combinations be finally changed? Maybe when MvM was released it had sense in theorizing and proposing possible good loadouts. But now the knowledge about this mode is higher and some of the example combinations (for example many of the scout's or the ones I comented before) have been proved not very efficient if one wants to consistently beat advanced and expert missions. I propose to follow the style of the spy's example combination, that is, propose a "Gold Standard" combination with possible variations on some weapons. An sketch of what I propose for some classes would be:
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| − | Scout: FaN (versatility)/Soda (raw DPS)/¿Scatter? + Milk + FoW/¿Sandman?
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| − | Engie: FJ (crits)/Pomson (ranged damage)/¿Rescue Ranger? + Wrangler + Jag
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| − | Sniper: Sidney Sleeper/Hitman/¿...? + Jarate + Bushwacka
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| − | Medic : Overdose/Kritzkrieg/Ubersaw
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| − | [[User:DankeEngineer|DankeEngineer]] 04:12, 22 December 2012 (PST)
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| − | :{{c|Agree}} I reckon you're right, some of these combinations are perhaps outdated. Might be an idea to make an example page somewhere else first, let a few people have a look at it, and then paste it in here when everyone's happy. '''» [[User:Cooper Kid|<span style="color:red">Coo</span><span style ="color:gray">per</span><span style ="color:blue"> Kid</span>]]''' <small>([[User_talk:Cooper Kid|blether]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Cooper Kid|contreebs]])</small> 04:36, 22 December 2012 (PST)
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| − | :{{c|Agree}} We also need to remove all the reskins too. It's making the examples cluttered. [[User:Guybrush20X6|Guybrush20X6]] 05:42, 22 December 2012 (PST)
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| s | GrampaSwood 
(talk) (contribs) 17:03, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
