Talk:List of companies

Talk archives
	Archive 1

Non-nanon companies nonexistance

I propose that the classification of "non-canon" companies does not exist because the concept of "canon" companies is too vague to exist in practical form.

I have updated my thinking on this from what I proposed before. For there to be "non-canon companies", there would have to be "canon companies". I now conclude that any concept of a significant set of canon companies is too strained and impractical to get worked up over. Here are the thoughts that I ran through last month.

What defines a "canon" company?

• "A canon company is a Storyline company." This seems natural, since "canon" applies to the TF2 Storyline. The prime examples would be all of the RED and BLU company signs, but particularly the Gray Gravel Co. sign. This is an exceedingly small list, as even most Valve-created signs don't tie into the Storyline. Posibly, most of the RED and BLU company signs in the game aren't even listed here. Nor would I really want them to be included; I think the best place would be an addition of a gallery of RED and BLU to each of the team's pages.

• "A canon company is one that appears in canon Comics or Movies." Again, a compelling argument at first blush. However, this only expands the set of "canon" companies a small amount. And IMO, selection for inclusion of a company in a Comic or Movie really doesn't make it any more canon that those that appear on Valve-made maps. There is also the question of just how canon is each individual Comic or Movie.

• "A canon company is one that appears on a Valve-made map." On one hand, this greatly expands the list of potential "canon" companies. On the other, it could exclude particularly notable and popular "Community" company signs that Valve has added to the game. Some Community-created signs go on to be included in other maps Valve added to the game.

• "A canon company is one that appears on a map Valve has officially added to the game." This is the terminal conclusion; however, it is a conclusion that means that the there is no distinction between canon and non-canon companies, at least one that could be practically enforced. Even so, low priority should be given to adding one-off Community map companies. Hoodoo is a case that shows that Valve currates the signs that Community developers submit; and by so currating the Community map signs, Valve "addopts" the Community-made companies they add to the game as their own.

I don't think "perfection" should be the main goal, here. I don't think what we have been doing here has been too terrible. I do encourage, though, that when any particular Community or Valve map introduces a particular set of companies specific to that single map's storyline, those companies be "galleried" on that map's page. I would see such galleries mentioned in the lead, as was done on List of posters.

★M★I★K★A★D★O★1776!★ 🎇🎆🎆🎆🎆🎇 🎇🎇 🎇🎇  (Contact Mikado282 (SM)) | (contribs) (Help Wanted!) 15:27, 4 July 2023 (UTC) 15:39, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

I think we should split them up similar to what we did with the NPCs, have a section for Community NPCs and one for Valve NPCs.
GrampaSwood (talk) 15:33, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

I don't think we need to make a distinction (they're not super important - and the ones who *are* are listed in the storyline page), but if we absolutely must separate them, I guess a section for "official maps" and "community maps" should be enough (like Grampa suggested).

edit: same for List of posters. — Tark 16:13, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

I'll still hold to the non-argument of non-canon vs canon, but it is a fair point to discuss non-Community vs Community-created companies.

1. First off, I emphasize the present practice of covering thematic non-Community and Community-created companies in the page that covers the map, examples of this, where several company signs were created specific to the one map, including 2Fort Invasion and Carnival of Carnage (Valve). In this sense, some Valve and Community signs presently on this list (e/g/, Rottenburg and Pier) do seem like they could be removed/moved to the respective map pages.

2. I would counter (partially) that the question of notability also applies; some few notable Community company signs (e.g., Charles Darling's Triassic Preserve), including those Community-created companies that were later used in several maps (e.g., Hampshire's Heavy Lifting Equipment) could be included (remain) in this list. The many CP-mode company signs added with Foundry, that might today be covered on the map's page, ended up being used all over the place.

3. As to separating Community and non-Community items, do we separate Community and non-Community items in List of maps? If Valve adds a Community map to the game, it is an offical map, and the signs on it "official" signs (albeit of different notabilty).

4. "split them up similar to what we did with the NPCs, have a section for Community NPCs and one for Valve NPCs." NPC was once (shortly) split up like that (Canon/non-Canon), but no more; the NPC page is about Storyline, and non-Storyline Community characters were largely removed.

5. List of companies is not about Storyline. The NPC page is in the Storyline/Background categories because Valve created these NPCs for that use. Even if Companies is presently in those Storyline/Background categories, the association is tenuous. This is because Companies, even Valve-created ones, have different functions from Storyline; ambiance is the foremost reason, but tributes and wayfinding are important secondary functions. Valve pre-referenced Enclosure from Darling's appearance in Unhappy Returns.

I could see moving Valve's YTI signs and Pier's Bourbon Street restaurant signs to their relevant map page galleries, but that's about it. I think of the other Pier signs that might appear on later maps.

Sorry if this seems a bit rushed; it is, my vacation is over. gtg

M I K A D O 282 ⊙⊙⊙⊙⊙⊙ ⊙⊙ ⊙⊙ (Contact Mikado282 (SM)) | (contribs) (Help Wanted!) 12:31, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

PS.

To recap,

• Non-canon vs canon is not a basis for dividing or excluding from this list.
• Valve does not segregate Valve-made and Community-made in the game files. This wiki does not segregate Valve-made and Community-made in the list of maps.
• That said, notability and placement are protential reasons to put some of these commpany signs on other pages:
  • I may get around for moving Finest Hour, Diedrich's Discount Delicatessen, Emmerich's to a special gallery on Pier, not because they don't belong in this list for some reason, but because they establish a (Bourbon Street) restaurant row theme. Even so, I am not sure, since my only reason is to group them by the theme, and they might now be used on other maps.
  • Even though it fits well with the French section of Pier, Ellis' Crawdads is not from the map and is notable both for its particular background and its use on multiple maps.
  • Petite Chou-fleur is maybe in the same situation, notable both for its particular background and its use on multiple maps.

M I K A D O 282 ⊙⊙⊙⊙⊙⊙ ⊙⊙ ⊙⊙ (Contact Mikado282 (SM)) | (contribs) (Help Wanted!) 02:14, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

Upwards?

I can't find the template for List of Companies to edit it, but it seems the map Upward is incorrectly referenced as "Upwards" on the template. Does someone know where the template is that needs to be edited?— The preceding unsigned comment was added by What (talk) • (contribs) 2023-11-14, 22:27 UTC

Please sign your messages using ~~~~.

You can link to pages using square brackets, rather than curly brackets. If you edit the page, you should see the template's name in curly brackets. I'll fix the name being Upwards.
| s | GrampaSwood (talk) (contribs) 22:27, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

Jenkin Coal Co.

Are we sure Jenkin Coal Co. is not RED affiliated?— The preceding unsigned comment was added by What (talk) • (contribs) 2023-11-14, 22:27 UTC

Please sign your messages using ~~~~.

It's likely that it appears on both RED and BLU sides of maps.
| s | GrampaSwood (talk) (contribs) 22:27, 14 November 2023 (UTC)