Difference between revisions of "Talk:Patches"

Latest revision as of 16:22, 15 June 2024

Talk archives
	Archive 1

MacOS support retirement

It seems TF2 no longer supports MacOS officially anymore:
https://steamdb.info/changelist/23945028/

This change was also done to other Source 1 games:
Half-Life 2, Left 4 Dead 1, Portal 2, Left 4 Dead 2, Half-Life 2: Deathmatch, Half-Life Deathmatch: Source, Counter-Strike: Source, Day of Defeat: Source, Portal 1, Half-Life 2: Lost Coast, Half-Life 2: Episode Two, and Half-Life 2: Episode One.

The system requirements section of the TF2 Steam Store page also does not list MacOS anymore.
I think we should edit the article to reflect on this changes, but I'm not sure if we should wait for Valve to make an official announcement of it first.
As far as I know MacOS support for Valve-made games is out-of-scope for the company. See the following links for more information:

Tiagoquix (talk) 17:56, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

TF2 can still be played on a macOS before Catalina, but I think for the future onwards it's probably best to just mention that MacOS is officially deprecated (as I've edited it on Team Fortress 2). Feel free to add a mention it.

| s | GrampaSwood

(talk) (contribs) 18:14, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

Done. Thanks.
Tiagoquix (talk) 18:49, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

Well, well, well...
https://steamdb.info/changelist/23976276/ (https://steamdb.info/app/440/history/).
I would say we should wait a week or two before possibly reverting the changes, but I believe Valve is not going to support macOS moving forward.
Tiagoquix (talk) 04:47, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

They are likely not, but there is still the legacy support for pre-Catalina OS IIRC, though it doesn't appear on the Store page's specs section anymore.

| s | GrampaSwood

(talk) (contribs) 11:03, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

It seems that the macOS build is not functional currently: https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Source-1-Games/issues/5625
Tiagoquix (talk) 15:51, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

It has been broken for a while on newer systems as far as I know, but this would qualify more as a bug than as unofficially not having support. In that same thread it mentions that Steam won't support pre-Catalina MacOS anymore, which means officially they're still supporting it, so I think we should mention it although a bug entry on Team Fortress 2, and then use ref tags to note that MacOS has been broken since the 64-bit patch in other places.

| s | GrampaSwood

(talk) (contribs) 16:05, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

I would say we should wait a week or two before editing the article with new information. Maybe with the Summer Update Valve will officially drop support for the 32-bit version of the game, as the MacOS 10.14 seems to be EOL.
Tiagoquix (talk) 16:22, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
-== Name ==
+{{Talk archive
-Why is it [[Patches (TF2)]]? It should be just [[Patches]] as TF2 is our main focus. -- [[User:Pilk|Pilk]] <sub>([[User talk:Pilk|talk]])</sub> 18:42, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
+| arc1name = Archive 1
-: Possible TFC integration? --[[User:Firestorm|<span style="color:#FF6600;text-decoration:underline;font-weight:bold;"><tt><big>Firestorm</big></tt></span>]]&nbsp;{{mod}}&nbsp;[[File:User Firestorm Nuke Sig.jpg]] 18:42, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
+| arc1link = Talk:Patches/Archive 1
-:: Yep, page just got made "[[Patches (disambiguation)]]" --[[User:Firestorm|<span style="color:#FF6600;text-decoration:underline;font-weight:bold;"><tt><big>Firestorm</big></tt></span>]]&nbsp;{{mod}}&nbsp;[[File:User Firestorm Nuke Sig.jpg]] 18:44, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
-::: Yes, I understand that. My point and the agreement was to make the non-bracketed names, like [[Soldier]] the TF2 ones and additional pages [[Soldier (Classic)]] for the TFC integration. -- [[User:Pilk|Pilk]] <sub>([[User talk:Pilk|talk]])</sub> 18:45, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
-::::Yeah. Pilk's idea. -- [[User:Smashman|Smashman...]]{{bur}} <sub>([[User_talk:Smashman|t]] • <span class="plainlinks">[http://www.steamcommunity.com/id/smashman2004 s])</span></sub> 18:47, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
-:::::Edit it however you feel works best. -- [[User:En_Ex|En Ex]] {{bur}}  <sub>([[User_talk:En_Ex|talk]])</sub> 18:50, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
-::::::Already have. We're going to use [[Soldier]] for TF2 things, [[Soldier (Classic)]] for TFC things and [[Soldier (Quake)]] for QTF things and maybe [[Soldier (Forever)]] for Fortress Forever, if we implement that. -- [[User:Smashman|Smashman...]]{{bur}} <sub>([[User_talk:Smashman|t]] • <span class="plainlinks">[http://www.steamcommunity.com/id/smashman2004 s])</span></sub> 18:52, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
-::::::: It's (Classic) for both QTF and TFC. They are essentially 98% identical, so a page on each version would be a 98% copy. -- [[User:Pilk|Pilk]] <sub>([[User talk:Pilk|talk]])</sub> 18:57, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
-::::::::Obviously the patches'll be different, so we might as well have those differing. -- [[User:Smashman|Smashman...]]{{bur}} <sub>([[User_talk:Smashman|t]] • <span class="plainlinks">[http://www.steamcommunity.com/id/smashman2004 s])</span></sub> 19:10, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
-== Columns ==
-I was wondering what you were up to with the columns template. It looks fantastic, great job. :D -- [[User:Pilk|Pilk]] <sub>([[User talk:Pilk|talk]])</sub> 04:04, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
-: Daaammnnn, somebody's awesome!
-{{userbox
-| border-c = Black
-|border-s = 4
-| id       = [[Image:Awesome.png|45px]]
-| id-c     = yellow
-| info     = This user is '''''AWESOME'''''
-| info-c   = lightyellow
-| info-fc  = {{{info-fc|black}}}
-| info-s   = {{{info-s|8}}}
 }}
---[[User:Firestorm|<font color="#FF6600"><tt><big><u>'''Firestorm'''</u></big></tt></font>]]&nbsp;{{mod}}&nbsp;[[File:User Firestorm Nuke Sig.jpg]] 04:07, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
+== MacOS support retirement ==
-:Hehe ;) [[User:Seb26|Seb26]] 04:14, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
-== Front page icon? ==
-I thought the front page icon was going to be updated with the latest major patch? Why is it still at 119, when it should be Engineer? Is that not how it's gonna be? -- [[User:SilverHammer|SilverHammer]] 10:03, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
-== Source titles standardization ==
-Ok, we need a format here. The patch source titles are currently being posted in three different link formats. The easiest thing to do would be to change the recent ones to match the older ones. Any thoughts? -- [[User:En_Ex|En Ex]] {{bur}}  <sub>([[User_talk:En_Ex|talk]])</sub> 01:46, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
-== October 21, 2010 Patch ==
- -Trading changes
-   -Added some anti-scam advice to the chat window.
-   -Increased trading slots to 8 slots per person.
-   -Added item rarity colors.
-   -Added the item’s original name to the item description.
-   -Made most tools tradable.
-   -Fixed Ellis’ Cap and the Frying Pan not being tradable
-<small>--''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' [[User:SirMcMuffin|SirMcMuffin]] ([[User talk:SirMcMuffin|talk]]) • [[Special:Contributions/SirMcMuffin|contribs]]) 07:06, 21 October 2010</small>
-:We usually stick to the PST date for the patch's release, in this case it was the 20th. See the patch article [[October 20, 2010 Patch|here]]. [[User:Seb26|<font color="#0B61A4">'''seb26'''</font>]] [[User talk:Seb26|<span style="font-size:95%;">[talk]</span>]] 07:14, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
-so its bad to post a little earlier than usual?
-== Patch Pages ==
-We still don't have pages for the following updates:
-*Heavy Update
-*Scout Update
-*Classless Update
-*Hallowe'en Special
-*WAR! Update (though somebody's working on that one now)
-*First Community Contribution Update
-*119th Update
-*Second Community Contribution Update
-*The Mac Update
-[[User:Problem|Problem]] 18:19, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
-:Yes [[User:No-oneSpecial|No-oneSpecial]] is working on the [[User:No-oneSpecial/Sandbox|WAR! Update]], I'm helping you both doing those pages and for now those are great. You should talk you two to organize yourselves, and not conflict on choosing updates. I'll still be helping you, keep on the good job. <br>PS: I'll be monitoring the progress from [[User:Tturbo/Translation#Update_Pages_.C2.A0In_Progress|there]] [[File:Killicon_ambassadorhs_unused.png]] [[User:Tturbo|<span style="font-family:TF2 Build; color:#476291 ">Tturbo</span>]] <sub><sub>([[User talk:Tturbo|T]]/[[Special:Contributions/Tturbo|C]])</sub></sub> 19:26, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
-::So, we've got the Pyro update done, and now we're doing heavy (Sven is), so I'm jumping to scout tomorrow. [[User:Problem|Problem]] 05:54, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
-== Community Map Pack Update ==
-Should this be considered a "major update?" It's not on the TF2 page under their major update. [[User:BASEBALLFURIES|BASEBALLFURIES]] 04:19, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
-== Shogun ==
+It seems TF2 no longer supports MacOS officially anymore:<br>
+https://steamdb.info/changelist/23945028/<br>
-Despite it's promotional content, it could still be considered an "update" (I mean ,if we can consider the Map Pack a major content pack then Shogun probably should too). <span style="color: #cc6600; font-family: Tf2 Build;"><big>[[User:Smashbrother101|Smash]][[User Talk:Smashbrother101|brother]][[User:Smashbrother101#Bios|1]][[User:Smashbrother101#Gallery|0]][[User:Smashbrother101#Loadout|1]]</big></span> 12:18, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
+This change was also done to other Source 1 games:<br>
-:I agree, but the blog does not.  --[[User:CruelCow|CruelCow]] {{sta}} <sup>([[User_talk:CruelCow|talk]])</sup> 12:20, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
+[https://steamdb.info/changelist/23944663/ Half-Life 2], [https://steamdb.info/changelist/23928955/ Left 4 Dead 1], [https://steamdb.info/changelist/23944952/ Portal 2], [https://steamdb.info/changelist/23944927/ Left 4 Dead 2], [https://steamdb.info/changelist/23944895/ Half-Life 2: Deathmatch], [https://steamdb.info/changelist/23944871/ Half-Life Deathmatch: Source], [https://steamdb.info/changelist/23944835/ Counter-Strike: Source], [https://steamdb.info/changelist/23944792/ Day of Defeat: Source], [https://steamdb.info/changelist/23944698/ Portal 1], [https://steamdb.info/changelist/23944685/ Half-Life 2: Lost Coast], [https://steamdb.info/changelist/23944681/ Half-Life 2: Episode Two], and [https://steamdb.info/changelist/23944672/ Half-Life 2: Episode One].<br>
-::What?   /:?   <span style="color: #cc6600; font-family: Tf2 Build;"><big>[[User:Smashbrother101|Smash]][[User Talk:Smashbrother101|brother]][[User:Smashbrother101#Bios|1]][[User:Smashbrother101#Gallery|0]][[User:Smashbrother101#Loadout|1]]</big></span> 21:25, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
-:::If the TF2 team consider an update to be 'major content' they will stick it in the list on the blog's main page. If it's not there, it's not an "update" so to speak. The wiki generally follow this.--<span style="color:purple">'''''Focusknock'''''</span> 21:31, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
-::::The community map pack isn't considered a major update by the TF2 Blog, and it is listed as a major update on the Patches page [[User:Ohyeahcrucz|Ohyeahcrucz]] 16:42, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
-Oh I see. Well then, nevermind... <span style="color: #cc6600; font-family: Tf2 Build;"><big>[[User:Smashbrother101|Smash]][[User Talk:Smashbrother101|brother]][[User:Smashbrother101#Bios|1]][[User:Smashbrother101#Gallery|0]][[User:Smashbrother101#Loadout|1]]</big></span> 02:04, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
-:They always are behind on the major updates list (I think it took them two weeks to finally list the Mac Update) and the Community Map Pack isn't on the TF2 blog update list either. The Shogun pack has it's own promotional page on the blog and the blogpost actually refers to it as though it should be considered a major content pack. Personally, I'd say add the Shogun pack to the major patches list, but if we follow Wiki standards, then the Community Map Pack should be removed as well from that list. [[User:Hefaistus|Hefaistus]] 22:19, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
-::"Many major patches, called updates, add new weapons, game modes or maps". The Shogun Pack added weapons, hats, and a tool. I think there is no reason to not add it to the "Major patches". [[User:Jay|Jay]] 16:18, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
-:::"Poker Night at the Inventory" also did and is no major update. Let's see first if Valve will add it to the sidebar. --[[User:Picard|Picard]] <sup>[[User talk:Picard|talk]]</sup> 16:24, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
-::::Poker Night weapons were only skins, they did'nt changed the game's gameplay. Wait & See... [[User:Jay|Jay]] 16:59, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
-:::::It's been discussed and decided in between Staff and we decided that the consensus was it wasn't a major update. I don't remember if it was because it was a promotion and not a TF2 only patch, but it was decided it's not (because if Shogun became a major Update the Homefront patch should be one too). [[File:Killicon_ambassadorhs_unused.png|50px|link=User:Tturbo]] [[User:Tturbo|<span style="font-family:TF2 Build; color:#476291 ">Tturbo</span>]] <sub><sub>([[User talk:Tturbo|T]]/[[Special:Contributions/Tturbo|C]])</sub></sub> 18:04, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
-::::::That's exactly what I said. The Homefront Update --> only one Hat, no gameplay changes. The Shogun Update --> 4 new weapons, and it changed the gameplay. To me, something is wrong in your argument. But if the Staff decided that, it ends debate... [[User:Jay|Jay]] 19:31, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
-::::::: An interesting point raised by a friend of mine, the wiki lists the contribution updates as major, yet the blog does not feature these in the side list. So should they be removed from the major content list on the page, or should the scope be widened to include these and subsequently the Shogun pack?--<span style="color:purple">'''''Focusknock'''''</span> 19:40, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
-:::::::: I see what you mean. Why was the Map update included as major, even though it's "not on the sidebar"? [[User:Problem|Problem]] 16:44, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
-:::::::: As someone has edited the page regardless to read the Shogun pack as a major update, I think it should be assumed it is a major content update. Perhaps any patch that adds multiple items/fixes and is marketed on the blog (ignoring the side bar) in a manner similar to a major content update should therefore be considered as one?--<span style="color:purple">'''''Focusknock'''''</span> 12:08, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
-== 119th update not 119th? ==
+The system requirements section of the TF2 Steam Store page also does not list MacOS anymore.<br>
+I think we should edit the article to reflect on this changes, but I'm not sure if we should wait for Valve to make an official announcement of it first.<br>
+As far as I know MacOS support for Valve-made games is out-of-scope for the company. See the following links for more information:<br>
+* https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/5ED2-ED8E-81F4-0C18#macos<br>
+* https://web.archive.org/web/20231018232105/https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/73EF-08A3-0935-6369#mac<br>
+* https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/5E0D-522A-4E62-B6EF<br>
+* https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Team_Fortress_2#API (same info from the SteamDB.info link above)<br>
+* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEetpGXDmjw
+<br/>[[User:Tiagoquix|<font color="#1e90ff">Tiagoquix</font>]] ([[User talk:Tiagoquix|<font color="#19c819">talk</font>]]) 17:56, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
-Why is it, according to this list, that the 119th update is the 116th? (All I did was copy the table into notepad and look at the line numbers)
+:TF2 can still be played on a macOS before Catalina, but I think for the future onwards it's probably best to just mention that MacOS is officially deprecated (as I've edited it on [[Team Fortress 2]]). Feel free to add a mention it.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] {{!}} [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] {{!}} [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 18:14, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
-Were there three days with 2 updates each? Did Valve count something extra? I'm too lazy to script something to parse the update page.[[User:Strange Quirk|Strange Quirk]] 23:01, 2 April 2011 (UTC)
-== May 2, 2011 Mac only patch ==
+::Done. Thanks.<br/>[[User:Tiagoquix|<font color="#1e90ff">Tiagoquix</font>]] ([[User talk:Tiagoquix|<font color="#19c819">talk</font>]]) 18:49, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
-OS X users received a 934.6 KB "stealth" update to TF2 today. I was wondering if anybody has a clue as to what was changed. [[User:Flash|Flash]] 23:23, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
-:may be 26 April?<br/>
-:Mac OSX - Fixed config loading/saving of steam settings from games<br/>
-:Mac OSX - Fixed overlay stopping games from seeing when keys go ‘up’ after the overlay launches<br/>
-:Mac OSX - Fixed rare occurrence where overlay did not track the mouse position<br/>
-:Mac OSX - Fixed case where overlay could lose the root folder containing layout resources and stop displaying.<br/> --<b>[[User:Nik9990|<font FACE="Times New Roman" color="#008000">Nik9990</font>]]</b> <font FACE="Times New Roman" color="#808080">[[User_talk:Nik9990|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Nik9990|Cont]]</font> 23:43, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
-:: Nope. It was a 934.6 KB patch for TF2 and it was today. I'm not on a Mac so I don't know what changed. {{n}}[[File:User_Ohyeahcrucz_Sig.png|20px|sub]] [[User:Ohyeahcrucz|<span style="text-shadow:blue 0px 0px 1px;font-size:13px;font-family:comic sans MS"><font color="blue">Ohyeahcrucz]]</font></span>  <span style="font-size:10px;font-weight:bold;"><nowiki>[</nowiki>[[User_talk:Ohyeahcrucz|T]]<nowiki>][</nowiki>[[Special:Contributions/Ohyeahcrucz|C]]<nowiki>]</nowiki></span> 23:47, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
-:: Ya that was a Steam update, this was specifically a TF2 update. I am on a Mac but I'm not sure I have anyway to tell exactly what changed. --[[User:Flash|Flash]] 23:54, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
-== Japan Charity Bundle ==
+:::Well, well, well...<br>https://steamdb.info/changelist/23976276/ (https://steamdb.info/app/440/history/).<br>I would say we should wait a week or two before possibly reverting the changes, but I believe Valve is <i>not</i> going to support macOS moving forward.<br/>[[User:Tiagoquix|<font color="#1e90ff">Tiagoquix</font>]] ([[User talk:Tiagoquix|<font color="#19c819">talk</font>]]) 04:47, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
-Japan Charity Bundle isn't a major update? -- '''[[User:ZFn|zFn]]''' <small>([[User talk:ZFn|Talk]])</small> 19:39, 30 May 2011 (UTC)
+::::They are likely not, but there is still the legacy support for pre-Catalina OS IIRC, though it doesn't appear on the Store page's specs section anymore.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] {{!}} [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] {{!}} [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 11:03, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
-== Major Updates ==
+:::::It seems that the macOS build is not functional currently: https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Source-1-Games/issues/5625<br/>[[User:Tiagoquix|<font color="#1e90ff">Tiagoquix</font>]] ([[User talk:Tiagoquix|<font color="#19c819">talk</font>]]) 15:51, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
-The new tabs, added on the blog during the Uber Update, lists only the [[Hatless Update]]  and the [[Replay Update]], as major updates in 2011, so I removed the other 3 we added from the list (Japan Charity, Community Map Pack and Shogun), anyone is opposed ? Personaly I would have considered the Map Pack as an update, but Valve apparently doesn't. Now we have a nice counter to to keep notes of the number of patch ![[User:Tturbo|<span style="font-family:TF2 Build; color:#70B04A ">Tturbo</span>]] [[File:Killicon_ambassadorhs_unused.png|50px|link=User:Tturbo]] <sub><sub>([[File:Speech voice.png|22px|link=User talk:Tturbo]] / [[File:Intel neutral pickedup.png|22px|link=Special:Contributions/Tturbo]])</sub></sub> 00:39, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
-:{{c|Support}} But of course! Seems fitting to me. {{n}} {{User:EpicEric/Sig/Image|RED}} {{User:EpicEric/Sig/Text|Epic|#5885A2}} {{User:EpicEric/Sig/Text|Eric|#B8383B}} {{User:EpicEric/Sig/Image|BLU}}{{User:EpicEric/Sig/Extra}} 00:41, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
-== TF 15th anniversary? ==
+::::::It has been broken for a while on newer systems as far as I know, but this would qualify more as a bug than as unofficially not having support. In that same thread it mentions that Steam won't support pre-Catalina MacOS anymore, which means officially they're still supporting it, so I think we should mention it although a bug entry on [[Team Fortress 2]], and then use ref tags to note that MacOS has been broken since the 64-bit patch in other places.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] {{!}} [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] {{!}} [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 16:05, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
-I think it should count as a Content Pack, like the other updates considered Content Packs, and making a new page for it. Thoughts? {{n}}[[File:User_Heffebaycay_stslogo.png|link=]] [[User:Cructo|<span style="font-weight:bold;font-family: Segoe UI"><font color="black">Cructo]]</font></span>  <span style="font-size:10px;font-weight:bold;font-family: helvetica"><font color="black"><nowiki>[</nowiki>[[User_talk:Cructo|T]]<nowiki>][</nowiki>[[Special:Contributions/Cructo|C]]<nowiki>]</nowiki></font></span> 16:29, 24 August 2011 (PDT)
+:::::::I would say we should wait a week or two before editing the article with new information. Maybe with the Summer Update Valve will officially drop support for the 32-bit version of the game, [https://www.itechtics.com/eol/macos/ as the MacOS 10.14 seems to be EOL.]<br/>[[User:Tiagoquix|<font color="#1e90ff">Tiagoquix</font>]] ([[User talk:Tiagoquix|<font color="#19c819">talk</font>]]) 16:22, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
-:{{c|Disagree|Nah}} --[[User:SilverHammer|SilverHammer]] 16:34, 24 August 2011 (PDT)

Difference between revisions of "Talk:Patches"

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