Talk:Heavy

Poker Night at the Inventory

I'd like to make mention of the upcoming Telltale game Poker Night at the Inventory, which the Heavy will co-star in. I think it would fit well in the trivia section, but seeing how this is a Featured Article, I'm having difficulty finding a way to add it without it coming off as uninformative "fanboyism", which would of course detract from such a handsomely written article. Any suggestions? Magnum357 06:25, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Well if this helps, Telltale was able to aquire the Heavy model sometime through the releases of Sam and Max no? Gamecrazy009 01:17, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

Here's some trivia I've been meaning to add; it doesn't show up. Can anyone help? "According to the website for Poker Night at the Inventory, the RED Heavy enjoys reading Russian literature, listening to tapes and cleaning his minigun in his spare time. Considering Valve's involvement with the game, it may be considered canon." Satorifan 02:49, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

It's because you've added it to a publicly hidden section for trivia that may be added in the future. If the moderators deem it relevant they will add it. Moussekateer 02:54, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Poker nigh at the inventory - Heavy says he collects old coins which he uses to melt down to create his custom bullets. He also says that his favorite movies are The dirty dozen and the first 20 minutes of Rockey IV. The heavy said at school he had the option of beating boys or goats, and that he wasn't to good with goats. He also says he likes "woman" with red hair. The Heavy also tells a story about him killing engineer. It goes as follows "I am reminded of time Engineer kill my entire team. I search entire base for him. He tries to kill me with turret and mini-turret but i crush his toys like they are made of paper. Then i find him. Hiding by teleporter.I take his gun away from him. He tries to hit me with wrench! So i take wrench away from him. I take his wrench and shove it down his throat, all the way down to the handle. Then i rip off all his fingers, one by one! Lets see you build toys NOW! THERE IS BLOOD EVERYWHERE! AND HE IS CRYING! I THINK HE CRIES OUT FOR MOTHER..BUT..BUT..BUT WRENCH IS STUCK IN THROAT! And it sounds like.. Is this not funniest thing?!" (I will put a video up on youtube about the story with engineer).--QuincytheDestroyer 04:23, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Anybody else notice Strongbad calls the Heavy; Ivan? Jub 01:42, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Ivan is a generic (and slightly racist) name for a Russian. His name is not Ivan. Moussekateer 01:44, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Alright, thanks for clarification. Jub 01:54, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Anybody notice that the Heavy said his favorite artist is Huey Lewis (Of Huey Lewis and the News?) I find that pretty interesting.Locutus 02:01, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Heavy is the tallest class

I wanted to make it clear that if the character models are compared and stood perfectly straight, the Heavy is in fact the tallest class. I have a reference image at home, which I will add to the wiki when I get back to my house later. I hope this is alright. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by ThePowerPlumber (talk) • contribs)

We already have that image uploaded. That said, it's not really interesting trivia; sure, it's a fact, but it's not really appropriate for the trivia section. ~ lhavelund ^{(talk ▪ contrib)} 18:54, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

so we are just going to keep false information in the trivia section?ThePowerPlumber 18:38, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

It's not false. The Sniper does stand taller because the Heavy slouches. Moussekateer 18:41, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

It is false, because the Heavy is taller then the Sniper and that is the 'fact' that has been entered. It's like saying when the heavy dies and falls over he is shorter the engineer and is the shortest class.--MEDUNN 16:34, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Max is credit to team!

Well i was just snooping around the ol wiki and found this http://www.samandmax.net/wiki/Poker_Night_at_the_Inventory apparently the Heavy gets along very well with max, so i was wondering if we could add that to the ol' trivia section. Gamecrazy009 05:31, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Nice find, but not very notable/interesting for a TF2 player. — Wind 05:33, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Not so well when you consider that the Heavy says he will make a hat out of Max. Then in tf2 Heavy can run around wearing the severed remains of Max's head.--MEDUNN 19:22, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Change the "Iron Curtain" Preview image?

Since the Backpack Icon of the iron curtain has been found, shouldn't it be put in the list of weapons instead of the image we created for the weapons article? Another question, why are all the backpack icons stretched out in all of the lists? 05:18, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

Heavy's Boxing Story in Poker Night

Can someone please fact check this/add to main page.

• In Poker Night at the Inventory, the Heavy admits that in his youth he had the choice to either learn how to herd goats or learn to box. He chooses the latter because he states he isn't good with goats.

Thank you -Geno 23:45, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Its not about factchecking, its the fact that we are making Poker Night non canon, unrelated to TF2, since it is by Telltale games with Heavy (character) licensed. Ventus 23:46, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Fair enough, but I think it's at least worth mentioning in the trivia section. Geno 23:48, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

No it's not worth mentioning anywhere because it's not canon. The lines have been written by Telltale Games and have nothing to do with Valve. Also please keep your signature next to your comment so it's easier to follow conversations. Moussekateer 23:51, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Despite being non-cannon the game has a Valve character in it. This page has an obligation to mention it because it's a page dedicated to the Heavy. Though some might think of the Heavy's appearance is non-cannon, most people will not make any distinction. What better place to clear it up then on this page? Geno 06:07, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

The game has a likeness of the Heavy in it. The dialogue was not written by Valve. It's no better than fanfiction. Moussekateer 06:11, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

To compare it to a fanfic is fairly absurd. The game contains Gary Schwartz, voicing as the Heavy. If it wasn't for Valve's permission Telltale games could not even include the Heavy in the game, due to copy right issues. However, you're missing the point mate. I'm not resisting the idea that every storyline brought up in the game should be non-canon. I'm saying we should at least bring those storyline up and explain their place in the TF2 universe. If not have a factoid stating that all dialogue the Heavy says is non-canon, provided with evidence. Many people will believe it is canon because a vast majority of TF2 players own the game. It is, after all, our obligation as wiki editors to inform the public. Geno 06:51, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

The only difference between fanfiction writers and Telltale games is that they paid Valve for the artistic license (and they're more competent writers). As for a factoid mentioning this non-canon Heavy I'd agree with a small note saying so somewhere, if the moderators don't resist that idea. Moussekateer 06:54, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

There's also the difference that it has effects on TF2 via the achievement promotional items. So: offical voice actor, official model used (can't remember where I saw this stated though, sadly), official endorsement from Valve, and actual impact on TF2 game from playing Poker Night... seems a bit above a "fanfiction" to me. Mar 07:47, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

That may be, but the fact of the matter is Valve did not write his lines. He refers to the Pyro as a 'he' in the game. Shall we take this as gospel then? There should be a note somewhere about his appearance but nothing more. Moussekateer 07:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Thats a very weak foundation to base the argument on. Various characters in TF2 refer to the pyro as "he" or "she". If the Heavy thinks the pryo is a "he" that doesn't invalidate the entire game. The various lines in Poker Night add to the Heavy's character by giving his favorite movies, favorite drink, education, early childhood, etc are not only amusing (and right up Valve's alley in the humor department) but also add depth to the character and should be included at least as trivia. Calling it FanFic when its officially licensed is a gross misrepresentation of the Poker Night. As you play Poker Night you realize very quickly that Strong Bad and Tycho are written as they are aware they are in a videogame, while Max and the Heavy are not. The Heavy stays in character and talks about many things during the game that add to the TF2 storyline.Xeroproject 20:51, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

trivia of sorts

i found from poker night that heavy likes red hair, is blissfully unaware of respawning, he thinks they are bad dreams, and also suggested max use the force-a-nature.

worth adding? Yourdeadthatsgoodamen 17:06, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

No, Poker night is not canon. Moussekateer 17:35, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

source? Traxus 17:47, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Try editing the Heavy page and look at the notice. Moussekateer 17:56, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Personally I'm leaning more toward the "non-canon" side now. However, we should wait until Valve says something because otherwise it's just pure speculation. Whose to say that Valve didn't write the storylines specifically for the Heavy? Also, I think people who have the game should list all the factoids. In the end we can let the mods decide whether we should omit it or not. Because most people who have the game will most likely think it's canon. So if it's not we at least owe the people a factoid that reads "ALL STORIES IN POKER NIGHT NON-CANON". Geno 17:59, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Well unless Valve say they've written his lines it makes more sense to assume they have had no involvement and the game is non-canon. List the facts if you want on a talk page but, until we hear otherwise, we have to assume they were made up by Telltale games. Moussekateer 18:02, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

By source i ment official source, has there been any word from Valve or have mods decided what's canon and not? Traxus 20:09, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

No the admin have decided it's non-canon. Until valve says otherwise that's what we'll stick to. Moussekateer 20:12, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Poker Night Stories

(Please list as many stories relating to Team Fortress 2 here.)

• In Poker Night at the Inventory, the Heavy admits that in his youth he had the choice to either learn how to herd goats or learn to box. He chooses the latter because he states he isn't good with goats. Geno 17:59, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

• In poker night at the Inventory, The Heavy says that he dies repeatedly in his dreams(AKA he is unaware of respawning, he thinks they are bad dreams.) Yourdeadthatsgoodamen 18:29, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

• As a child at camp, the Heavy watched a boy stab a sparrow to death with a throwing knife. After the kid left, the Heavy made a little grave and buried the sparrow. -- Nineaxis 20:54, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

• The Heavy has a Ph.D. in Russian Literature, which he uses "more than you may think" in his current line of work. Unfortunately, I forgot the university he attends. Discdeath 23:48, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

• The Heavy "snuffs out" people (As Tycho says) for $400,000. He also says it will not be discreet, as Sascha is not. --Flf4sgam3r 22:04, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

• When the heavy looses out he says things about being sent to a n camp in the forest or being sent to his death and he refers to Russia as "motherland" DARREN 02:08, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

Heavy's name?

In Poker night at the Inventory, Strong bad calls Heavy Ivan several times. Is this just a joke referencing Ivan IV of Russia ( better known as Ivan the Terrible ) or could this actually be his name?LGR72 03:48, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Obviously a reference, and non-canon aside FlotsamX 03:48, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Non-canon, oh and flot you damn ninja :P Tryer 03:49, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Heavy's PHd?

The Heavy mentions in Poker night that he has a PHd in Russian literature and claims to use it in his line of work. Is this worth adding? EverythingFTW 22:59, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

No, Poker night isn't canon. —Moussekateer·talk 23:00, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

What makes you say Poker Night isn't cannon. Heavy's lines were written and approved by the tf2 team, so why shouldn't it be cannon. If you are claiming it is not cannon you need to show an official source.--MEDUNN 16:29, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Written and approved by the TF2 team? The onus is on you to prove it's canon. I haven't heard otherwise. —Moussekateer·talk 17:29, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Read any of Poker Night's press releases on the games progress. They talk about how they ran the script past all the various creators and how the creators suggest and added stuff for their characters ie Matt Chapman contributed for Strong Bad, Steve Purcell for max ect. The penny-arcade blog tells how they were sent scripts to approve the characters tone and suggest changes. Whilst there is nothing on the tf2 blog talking about scripts, the games script writers at telltale mention in several interviews meeting with Robin Walker to discuss the project, and also that they reviewed the scripts with all parties prior to recording. This means that all the Heavy's dialogue would have been officially reviewed by Valve and approved. Why is not considered canon?--MEDUNN 18:58, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

From what I've read the implication was the dialogue was run past Valve so that Telltale weren't writing anything to damage Valve's IP, but Valve didn't provide creative input. The same way Philips made the CD-i Zelda games, with Nintendo's blessing, but isn't considered canon by anyone. It's pretty difficult to call PNATI canon when it's a Poker game with a cast from multiple games. Canon is pretty much thrown out of the window. —Moussekateer·talk 19:04, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

The other series consider it canon, I don't know why it wouldn't be for tf2. Homestarrunner.com's staff have reffered to Poker Night at the Inventory as 'The first canon crossover involving the Homestar Runner body of work'. As opposed to Make a Scene with Telltale, which was described as 'unofficial but affiliate-run crossover'. So if it's canon for the others why not for Team Fortress--MEDUNN 19:19, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

This discussion has been had many times now. The Heavy you see in PNATI is a likeness of the Heavy from TF2 licensed for use by Telltale games, nothing more. —Moussekateer·talk 19:25, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

How does the fact that it's a different model affect whether it's canon? If the tf2 team approved the use of Heavy, were consulted throughout, approved the scripts, made the games link together so that one gives content to anouther through playing the other (unlike their other promotions) and all the other series involved state that it's canon for their respective characters series then there is not reason to assume it isn't cannon. I have never heard anything to contradict this from Valve and I don't think your assertion that 'The Heavy you see in PNATI is a likeness of the Heavy from TF2...nothing more' is based on, or backed up by anything that Valve, Telltale or anyone involved with either game has ever said or implied. Same with your Zelda games comparrisons, which have been officially confirmed as non-canon and disowned by Nintendo, whereas the Heavy's apprearance in Poker Night is mentioned serveral times in the tf2 blog as being endorsed. Please provide one piece of evidence from anyone involved in either game that it is not canon and that backs up your claims.--MEDUNN 19:46, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

I did not say it was another model, I said it was his likeness. 'If the tf2 team approved the use of Heavy, were consulted throughout, approved the scripts, made the games link together so that one gives content to anouther through playing the other (unlike their other promotions) and all the other series involved state that it's canon for their respective characters series then there is not reason to assume it isn't cannon.' They can approve it, be consulted, approve the scripts the same way that I'm sure Lucasfilm Ltd approved C-3PO and R2-D2's appearance in an advert, so their IP is not damaged. I can tell you that an editor here argued the same point and asked Robin himself during a TF2 match where I was present. His immediate thought was no, it wasn't canon. When pressed some more he replied that he wasn't sure and would ask his writers and get back to us. He never did but his attitude didn't inspire confidence it was really. So again I say the onus is on you to show that Valve claim it is canon. The onus isn't on me to prove it's not, I can't prove the Heavy's appearance in hundreds of GMod videos isn't canon, can you? —Moussekateer·talk 19:56, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Yes I absolutely can prove that Heavy's appreance in Gmod video and other fan fiction and fan video's isn't canon, because they have not been approved, sponsored by Valve or promonantly featured on the tf2blog, Valve has neither signed a deal with these people or had any imput into their work, nor have they had the work they produce influence anything in tf2. None of this applies to Poker Night at the Inventory, which has been sponsored by all the orginal creators and several (such as the brothers chaps have explicitly gone on recorded saying that it is canon for the homestarrunner universe) have said it is canon. If you can provide video of Robin or anyone else on the tf2 team saying that it was not canon then please add a link and put this arguement to rest.

Your wrong to say that the onus is only on me to prove it is and that unless Valve write 'Poker Night is canon' on the official blog then no other evidence counts. Evidence in any case has to be provided for both arguements and then they are weighed in balcance. I have provided evidence in Telltale's interviews and blogs that the tf2 were consulted on the sript and that they approved it and that all the creative team of the charcaters made changes and wrote addition material. You can read the blogs of the other characters creators and see that they have either said it is canon themselevs or made reference to it in their canon. Whilst my evidence is not entirly conclusive I admit yours is completely non-existant, you don't back up any of yours assertions at all. I admit that if you have video of Robin saying 'it is not canon' then that completely voids my arguement, but until you produce that or something similar the weight or evidence (ie some evidence versus no evidence) is strongly on the side of it being canon.--MEDUNN 20:21, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

'If you can provide video of Robin or anyone else on the tf2 team saying that it was not canon then please add a link and put this arguement to rest.' I'm asking you to do that. Assuming everything is canon unless proved otherwise is a silly way of going about things. With all due respect to the other characters, it doesn't matter at all if they said PNATI is canon, that has nothing to do with TF2. The fact that several of the other characters break character and are aware they are in a videogame makes it non-canon in my opinion. Another user went through the same argument and, as I already mentioned, ended up asking Robin who said no it wasn't. Could you please go ask Robin to confirm it, but in the meantime the wiki's position is that it is non-canon. —Moussekateer·talk 21:00, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

This is my problem you have made 7 posts and offered nothing but opinion with nothing to back it up.

'Assuming everything is canon unless proved otherwise is a silly way of going about things.' - This is a game that is prominatly featuring a tf2 charcater, the game is heavily endorsed and promoted by Valve, not just in publicity but also in game, the amount of items you can get for tf2 from it goes far beyond any other game promotion and to get them you have to play the game (poker Night) to completion over and over again, and unlike other game where preorder is the way to get the items tf2 has integrated poker night so that as long as the two games exist you have to play them both to get the items. It's not some throwaway licencing to a third party with no official involvement like your nitenedo and star wars comparisions.

'The fact that several of the other characters break character and are aware they are in a videogame makes it non-canon in my opinion.' - Again this is nothing but opinion with no facts as you yourself admit. But the characters you mention breaking the forth wall are not breaking character. Strong bad and Tycho frequently break the forth wall in their series and continue to do so here. The Heavy never breaks the forth wall in his series and never does in oker night. Max flips between being aware his is a character and not in both the original comics and video games, and is similarly portrayed in Poker night.

Again I say "Your wrong to say that the onus is only on me to prove it is and that unless Valve write 'Poker Night is canon' on the official blog then no other evidence counts. Evidence in any case has to be provided for both arguements and then they are weighed in balcance." Please show your evidence to back up your claims that this is non-canon.--MEDUNN 09:36, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ We, as a community-edited wiki, have taken the position that any storylines or dialogue that takes place in a game not written by Valve is considered to be non-canon. Yes, there is no official stance by Valve, and there is unlikely to be one given how trivial this really is. We have to take some steps on our own here, not everything can be verified or backed up with claims. seb26 [talk] 09:47, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Heavy lives in Dzhugdzhur Mountains

According to the from hell blog post. The heavt reportedly lives in Dzhugdzhur Mountains. A real landmark in Russia. Not sure whether to label it as satirical or Valve are actually building a bio for each character.--The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mesosade (talk) • (contribs)

It's already noted in the trivia section. Don't forget to sign your comments with ~~~~! —Moussekateer·talk 18:21, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, about the trivia entry, do we need the 'According to the TF2 Official Blog' part? Surely if it's stated as such by the tf2 team that the Heavy lives there, then that is fact. It's not like there is any ambiguity or another possible source with more authority. Shouldn't it just say he lives in a cabin in the Dzhugdzhur Mountains, then just add a hyperlink to the particular blog entry?

--MEDUNN 16:27, 8 February 2011 (UTC)