Talk:Los Muertos

Catedral de la Santísima Trinidad

At some point, some editor(s) will (have) become curious about the plaque for

Catedral de la Santísima Trinidad

or

Cathedral of the Holy Trinity

which is the name of several cathedrals, if not outright basilicas, world wide, mostly Roman Catholic.

The impressive design of the map's cathedral strikes me as consistent with the many famous Spanish/Portuguese Roman Catholic cathedrals if Latin America. I grew up in a Kansas county with many similar, but German, Catholic cathedrals.

But something is interesting on the plaque:

"la iglesia episcopal te da la bienvenida"

or

"The Episcopal Church Welcomes You"

which has been a particular invitational phrase of the Episcopal Church for over 55 years.

This is complex, but in short, the United States "Episcopal Church" is a Revolutionary War split from the "Church of England", which is a split from the "Catholic Church".

And, the Catedral de la Santísima Trinidad in Kingston, Jamaica (British Colony taken over from Spain) is Episcopalian and was Consagrada/Consecrated in 1911. But the Kingston CHT looks nothing like the Los Muertos cathedral.

M I K A D O 282 🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃 🎃🎃 🎃🎃 (talk | contribs) (Help Wanted!) 19:20, 10 October 2021 (UTC)

P.S. No, really. When I first saw the cathedral, I immediately thought of Cathedral Basilica of the Assumption of the Virgin in Cusco, Peru ("Indiana Jones", Secret of the Incas). The map's cathedral also has features seen in Cathedral Basilica of St. Francis of Assisi (Tuefort).

Make what Trivia of any of this you think you can.

M I K A D O 282 🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃 🎃🎃 🎃🎃 (talk | contribs) (Help Wanted!) 02:49, 12 October 2021 (UTC)

I have been informed that the developer totally made it all up. M I K A D O 282 🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃 🎃🎃 🎃🎃 (talk | contribs) (Help Wanted!) 01:38, 18 October 2021 (UTC)

Pickup images

Are these pickup images necessary? They'd have to be made for every single map previously and from now on, and I don't think they're really necessary to begin with (They'd have to be improved if so).
GrampaSwood (talk) 12:41, 17 October 2021 (UTC)

 Agree Unnecessary, and ironic, given how particularly obvious and easy to find as they are on this map. OTOH, I can only guess the inspiration is from the Gargoyle pick up maps, which I do appreciate, especially for the new convoluted maps.

M I K A D O 282 🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃 🎃🎃 🎃🎃 (talk | contribs) (Help Wanted!) 17:12, 17 October 2021 (UTC)

Plaza de Armas

Plaza de Armas (literally Weapons Square) are standard features of Spanish colonial settlements, especially colonial capitals like Santa Fe, New Mexico, or Chihuahua City, Mexico.

Spanish Colonial Baroque cathedrals typically face the settlement's Plaza de Armas:

• Cathedral of Chihuahua
• Cathedral Basilica of St. Francis of Assisi (Santa Fe)

M I K A D O 282 🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃 🎃🎃 🎃🎃 (talk | contribs) (Help Wanted!) 17:02, 17 October 2021 (UTC)

Personally, I think it's a lot less confusing if there aren't words used that entirely accurately describe what these locations are. When I read this stuff, I have absolutely no connection with these places unless I translated all the names and looked up what they generally look like. I think they should be scrapped in favour of more descriptive names that everyone can understand without having to do a ton of research.
GrampaSwood (talk) 17:08, 17 October 2021 (UTC)

I see your point (ahead of time), which is why I also expressly put in parenthesis what would be a more typical name, which I would actual expect to be used in the Strategy; point, spawn, bakeries (an exceptionally well-done TF2 treatment of an essential Día de los Muertos aspect). The connection of the sacred family shrine (actually there are many ofrendas all over the map) and the tomb are essential to the holiday. And the translations are provided and research is done. I would not make this a standard treatment of map locations, and do so only in this case to inclusively acknowledge effort the mappers put into historic cultural and religious aspects, which are not inseparable to the game's primary location (even portrayed in the Comics). The alternative is banal (and IMO, discourteous) placement of "Path of Marigolds" in Trivia (fair enough, I already put a small part of it in the Lead). Some people (my neighbors) do have connections to these things, I would have to say that I do, too, as much as I grew up with it, if outside looking in.

Sorry, if I seem to be striking striking a "fight me, mate" tone, we no doubt approach this map from different cultural perspectives, (cf, Pier) and I may be violating NPOV. Yes, the developers are hardly New/Old Mexican, as far as I can tell, but wow, the job they did (maybe cultural misappropriation?). Maybe a better work-around is to place the inclusive ethic terms and links into a fuller map description in the Lead.

P.S. "cultural misappropriation" Now, I all I can think about is the insensitivity of "Voodoo-Cursed Souls" ...

M I K A D O 282 🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃 🎃🎃 🎃🎃 (talk | contribs) (Help Wanted!) 18:23, 17 October 2021 (UTC) 18:44, 17 October 2021 (UTC)

"Upon further review", yeah, I was too close to the action. I cleared out the Romantic literature. Thanks. M I K A D O 282 🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃 🎃🎃 🎃🎃 (talk | contribs) (Help Wanted!) 01:32, 18 October 2021 (UTC) 01:36, 18 October 2021 (UTC)

Where's the Helpful Overview?

I'm trying to add some stuff for the Community Strategy page for Engineer, and while I'm glad the page for this map has names for the locations on it, without a Helpful Overview section to specify where they are on the map, I'm having a lot of trouble writing tips and tricks for playing as Engineer. Can someone please get a Helpful Overview section set up? Thanks in advance. GoodMudkip (talk) 15:59, 4 November 2021 (UTC)

Here ya go. I was planning on adding map overviews for the new maps this weekend. But I guess that this is a special delivery. Lolimsogreat21 (talk) 20:57, 4 November 2021 (UTC)Lolimsogreat21

Thank you so much, this will be so much help. GoodMudkip (talk) 15:48, 12 November 2021 (UTC)

add translation for the cathedral sign

A sign of the cathedral.

lit. Welcome to the Cathedral of Santísima Trinidad, the Episcopal Church constructed in 1911

Some insufficient efforts have been made by this miserable Spanish beginner who settled in an almost Atheistic state of Mysterious East, for the purpose of delivering some extra information to those travellers who would be only too curious about those well-structured terms displayed on the eye-catching sign of this exquisitely constructed Holy Sanctum.

Cringey attempts of humor aside, this one is requesting for your opinons with courtesy:

1. If you support the idea to display the translation along with the picture on the page.
2. If you find the translation given on the right side inappropriate and in need of further improvements.
3. If you agree with my plan to move the image from Locations section to the right side below the Gallery.

Gracias y saludos. 10:27, 12 November 2023 (UTC)