Team Fortress Wiki:Discussion

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Tabbed box styles v2

Shiny ahead~ Boxes are now quite consistent with the current navboxes, with the exception of the color of the left column; it is a purposefully different color so that people don't confuse it with regular, non-interactive navboxes. Still need to vote on animations or not.

• No animations:

• Animations:

User:WindPower/TabsTweak2 Again, the animation is faster than the time the human eye takes to click the link, see something on the page has changed, refocus itself to the position where changed thing is, recognize that there is text there, and start reading it. Additionally, animation subconsciously draws the eye to the animated zone. Animation is disabled on browsers that don't support it (IE) and that are too slow for it. — Wind 22:49, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

I like the animation, it's not too slow. Looks great! —Moussekateer·talk 00:14, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

 Support It looks good, WindPower. It's simple and effective, and reduces page clutter by incorporating the multiple boxes into a single area. I like it! I would probably go with the version with animations, as it provides a visual cue to the user that allows them easily identify when the content has changed. Considering the identical structure of the tabs for each class, I see that as important. Esquilax 00:18, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

 Support I loved this style of nav before and I still love it, hope to see it implemented and the only problem I can think of is the affect it will have on the wiki when edited (Slow Wiki Syndrome) and that is more of a server thing anyway. ^Scatman _John (Talk | Contrib) 21:40, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Also animations ^Scatman _John (Talk | Contrib) 21:44, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

 Support Poot animation! I know I voted against the animations last time, but I'm starting to like them. My only problem with the nav now is that it doesn't horizontally scale. It doesn't fit in my browser window, which is not tiny baby size (about 1200 px). — nVis (talk) 21:57, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

That can be customized with the width parameter, and yeah the default is 1000px which is a bit beeg — Wind 22:01, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

 Neutral You know my position on this in general but this is definitely an improvement and fits the wiki style much better. However I still like the one without animations more. -- Lagg 01:26, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

 Support Poot animations here. Slower wiki ftw Vulturas 06:04, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

 Support Animations one definitely, without the animations the resizing of the box jumps around and is distracting to the eye. Only change I would make would to not include Weapon and Hat icons in it, just text. Other than that, I agree completely. MogDog66 _{t c p} || 06:06, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

 Support I like the animation. Final Verdict; Awesome Flick. Maggosh 06:08, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

 Support I don't even see the animations haha. Just stick to the one without animations anyway. It seems like it would be over done with animations. -- No-oneSpecial (talk | contribs) 06:09, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

 Support I agree that the animated implementation is superior. However, I would suggest having the table be a set height (whatever that ends up being when you input the rest of the links), as even with the animations the sudden change in height between tabs is jarring, and could potentially cause other elements in the article to shift with it. --Ten19 06:13, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

So... What's keeping us from making it to live? --Parseus (talk • contrib) 11:48, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

It's alive now at Template:All Weapons Nav. Just created it on order of WindPower. The Win Duo now awaits for critiques on how to improve this method. Wintergreen 21:49, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

I liked the idea of merging the class, weapon and hat navs together like the example above. Are we going to split them again? seb26 [talk] 21:52, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

The following discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Major updates nav

Now that a couple of editors who are more hard-working than me are getting the major updates up, I thought a navigation template to help travel between the pages might be a good idea. Try this on for size: User:NVis/Major updates nav Here's a link to it, as the one on the preview doesn't work. What say you, is this something we could use? — nVis (talk) 22:13, 26 January 2011 (cUTC)

 Support Im all in favour of this. ^Scatman _John (Talk | Contrib) 22:15, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

 Support I would like to see this new navigator implemented. Could you link the title to Patches#Major_updates instead of Patches? I think that this would be an improvement. Thank you for your creation.
— minip 22:25, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

 Comment It can be done, but as the anchor varies with language, it would require some additional tinkering. — nVis (talk) 22:29, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

 Support Yes, i like it. DrAkcel ^{(T | C)} 13:45, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

 Support After having launched No-oneSpecial and Problem to create the missing update pages, I was thinking of doing this nav. So go on nVis, I'd just like adding some icons where possible. But not all pages are created yet. Tturbo _(T/C) 13:51, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

I added icons to the table, because I think it allows a faster and easier identification. We decided to put it up to vote, because nVis doesn't really. I's give ideas for missing icons in the code and we don't really like when there's two icons. What do you think? Tturbo _(T/C) 15:05, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

 Support F*ck yeah! How 'bout using a Packaged Crate for the Mann-Conomy Update (aAs people mainly refer to it as Polycount or Trading) and a Festive Crate (Or Key) for Australian Christmas (People'll remember that easily). Alternatively, you could use the "Polycount Budle" Icon for Mann-Conomy, and "A Bargaining Manne's" Icon for AC. Lancer anti-tank Rocket 16:07, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

I had thought about using a key but the polycount bundle is a better idea. PS: Forgot to link to the code to see icons ideas. Tturbo _(T/C) 16:19, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

 Support Still in favour of this, even more now. Though it might be an idea to try and get both of the War Update icons on the same line. ^Scatman _John (Talk | Contrib) 16:09, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

 Comment They are for me. Maybe it's your Resolution... Lancer anti-tank Rocket 16:16, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

 Comment Yeah someone else told me that as well, must be my resolution. In that case I still support it anyways ^Scatman _John (Talk | Contrib) 16:18, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

 Support I'm in favour as long as we can have an icon for each update. It would look like a half finished nav if we only had icons for the class updates and halloween updates. If we can get some icons for the others then I'm all in favour for that. It's all or nothing :P -- No-oneSpecial (talk | contribs) 16:17, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

 Comment The draft with images looks a lot better now that each update has its own icon. I can implement Tturbo's version later tonight, and make the title link to the Major updates section of Patches for each language. Any objections? — nVis (talk) 19:07, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

 Comment The classless icon looks a bit weird, but I agree.Vulturas 19:10, 27 January 2011 (UTC) PS: I like how second one looks

 Support I know someone's not going to like the icons... Personally, I don't like that the Scream Fortress icon is at the end of the first line but the Scream Fortress link is at the beginning of the second line. They should be on the same line. That is all~ — Wind 19:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

 Done Implemented on English pages. — nVis (talk) 20:40, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

The preceding discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

The following discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Mann Co. Nav and alphabetising

Hi, as it stands the current Mann Co. Nav isn't in alphabetical order in its Misc section. I went to edit this, however I realised that if I put this into alphabetical order, then items that should be next to each other such as the dueling badges would be all over the place. As such, I tried to re-organise the nav, and put items into further categories, specifically, Misc. Items, Action Items and Tools.

Is this ok, and how can I improve any mistakes I might have made? ^Scatman _John (Talk | Contrib) 20:43, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

I personally think the Secret Saxton should come before the Pile o' Gifts, but other than that, should be left how it is here. There's no point in alphabetizing anything but the hats, since all but 2 of the weapons are poly set stuff, and in other places it just wouldn't make sense. -- Henry Spencer 21:18, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Pile o' Gifts is before the Secret Saxton in ToolNav, I checked whilst making this one because that seemed like the most logical way to me as well, though I wanted to see how it has been previously done already. Generally weapons aren't alphabetised either and are put into class order, all I have actually changed is the Miscellaneous section at the bottom, which I have split up into three as opposed to:

^Scatman _John (Talk | Contrib) 21:23, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

 For Ya I like dis new nav, more organized. —Moussekateer·talk 21:27, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

 Neutral It's more organized but also larger. Also, I know this is the case for the current nav, but why are hats before weapons? — Wind 21:31, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Because hats > items. Also, I definately like this. It's not too large, not at all. :3--Spyoncé 21:34, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

 Support Organisation: For the cool kids, by the cool kids. - 21:37, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

 Support I like this more than pie. -- Henry Spencer 21:42, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Fairly simple change so I've pushed it to the main template now. seb26 [talk] 21:56, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Ok, thanks :D. ^Scatman _John (Talk | Contrib) 22:03, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

The preceding discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Individual Pages for Paint and Crates

Well, I think every paint and every crate should have their own separate page. I am, of course, aware that there is a list page for them. However, I feel it would be much more convenient for each to have its own individual page. For those who will say "The difference between paints is color, the difference between crates is what's in them", that is not the case. Paints have references, crates have history. As a regular user of the Team Fortress wiki, I find it annoying when I search a specific item: E.G. Australium Gold, and have a list pop up rather than the page. If the regulars here let me go forward with this I would be willing to create stubs/pages of all paint and crates, with dates, references, etc. Let me know what you think please! Theetah 21:10, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

 Oppose Such a thing would create unnecessary clutter in the Wiki. All paints operate in the same exact manner except the color itself. Essentially, you'd have the same exact thing on each individual paint article except for a different image and a few words. Same thing with crates ... they all work the same way except for what can be found in them. There's nothing convenient in having dozens of pages all essentially saying the same exact thing. Vlad The Impaler _(t/c) 21:18, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

Did you read it? They wouldn't "say the same thing"- they are all slightly different. Also I'm not sure what you mean by "cluttering the wiki"... You're not forced to read pages? Theetah 21:39, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

 Oppose They would all say the same thing. What would be the differences on the 'Radigan Conagher Brown' and 'Ye Olde Rustic Colour' pages? You'd have 21 pages saying the same thing. It is clutter because there would be so much redundancy. —Moussekateer·talk 00:41, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

 Oppose There is absolutely no reason for items with such minor differences to have their own pages. For all intents and purposes they are the same item. Each paint does exactly the same thing - colour a hat - with the only difference being the colour. Each crate distribute a random item when it is unlocked where that item is decided by the series. There's nothing more to say about them individually and it is certainly not worth explaining the names of every single paint colour just because a few of them happen to be clever. -- - _{(talk | contribs)} -- 05:06, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

 Oppose Not enough difference. They're well enough grouped together.

Loading Screen Tips Revision

I just talked to Robin and got the go-ahead to start a small new project on the wiki: revising the tips that appear on the map loading screen. Should be a productive project! I've started it here: Team Fortress Wiki:Tips Revision. Translators would be especially helpful for the non-English tips, which are currently missing a lot. Hope to see everyone contributing there. :) ~G-Mang (T|C) 06:53, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

This will be fun :D —Moussekateer·talk 06:56, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Can't wait. The pressure is on now that our work will be in game. Lets show them how good we are. -- No-oneSpecial (talk | contribs) 07:02, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

I like it! :D Another thing I think we should have are different "levels" of tips, that the user manually selected. For example, nobody who's experienced in the game needs to read "As an Engineer, pick up weapons and metal to upgrade your buildings", when they could be reading more interesting things, such as "As a Soldier, your equalizer blocks a medic from healing you". Theetah 08:53, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Request regarding RIFT pre-order weapon itemboxes

I figure this is the best place to post this, so here goes. I just recently changed the quality field of the itemboxes on Sharpened Volcano Fragment and Sun-On-A-Stick to genuine, as that is the only quality it comes in (at the moment). However, I'm not too familiar with any language other than English (100% pure Canadian, eh), and as such, I don't want to mess anything up by changing the item box quality on the other language pages for the RIFT Pre-order weapons.

So my request is simple. If you're familiar with one of the many languages that are used on this Wiki, please edit the different language versions of Sharpened Volcano Fragment and Sun-On-A-Stick, and add the following fields to the itembox, in the pages respective language:

| quality = genuine

| loadout-name = Sun-On-A-Stick , for Sun-On-A-Stick (translated to the proper language of the page of course)

| loadout-name = Sharpened Volcano Fragment , for Sharpened Volcano Fragment (again, translated to the proper language of the page of course) 404 User Not Found 18:48, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

In most cases 'loadout-name' is not needed because a lot of pages already have 'name' (which alters the display title, the infobox title and the backpack name). seb26 [talk] 08:28, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Ahhhh, alrighty. It's just, on the English pages, when only the quality was added, it added the prefix "Genuine The". When the loadout-name part was added, it fixed the issue and now it properly says "Genuine". I just wanted to make sure that all the various other language versions of Sun-On-A-Stick and Sharpened Volcano Fragment got updated with the proper quality. 404 User Not Found 18:33, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Kill icon — update article

I propose that the "Kill icon" article be updated. I have prepared the new version. It is more convenient and informative. You guys can find it here. — VeKoB 19:10, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

 Support I'll give my support for now, but you need to update your page to include some Kill Icons you missed, such as the 3 alternate Sharpened Volcano Fragment kill icons (for the Afterburn effect, it uses a flamethrower kill icon based on which flamethrower you have equipped) 404 User Not Found 20:42, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

 Comment Done. — VeKoB 21:02, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

 Oppose From my perspective, your new version is neither more convenient nor informative, you just added images to everything. In fact, you've made it more confusing by unnecessarily separating icons out in the "Extra icons" section. Whilst I think the images look nice for the weapons, it starts to look fairly ugly when you start squeezing in stuff like the Critical Hits and Bleed images. Also, I see no reason to separate out the Taunt icons, it just makes the article unnecessarily longer. I would, however, support a tasteful implementation of images to the weapons on the existing article. --Ten19 06:49, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

 Support I actually prefer VeKoB's suggestion because I think it is good to have images of the weapons with the icons. However a lot of what has been said in the above comment does need to be addressed. I think most of the stuff that is in the extra icons section should just be with their respective items, so have the baseball icon or alongside the sandman icon for example. Really if you kept the old table categories but added images like in VeKoB's, that would be good. ^Scatman _John (Talk | Contrib) 19:11, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

 Comment Removed the "Extra icons" section. Now they are together with classes icons. Looks pretty good. — VeKoB 19:55, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

 Support Now that you've merged the "Extra icons" into the respective classes, it's perfect. i-ghost 20:05, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

 Support I like the new one better than the old one. I thought at first adding the images would make the chart too noisy, but you've placed them in good positions. Excellent job, VeKoB. Alsoodani 20:36, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

 Comment I still think the following changes should be made: (1) The size of the Sentry Gun images should be smaller so they don't blow out the rows. (2) Same goes for the Environmental icons, should be closer to the size of the weapon images. (3) There's still no reason to keep the taunts separate, they should go back in with each class. (4) No reason to have images with the Unused ones as it just makes it look messy. If those changes get made, I'd support it. — Ten19 [T|C] 20:41, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

 Comment 1 and 2 are made. Nothing more! — VeKoB 15:20, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

 Comment It makes no sense to have the Taunts seperate. All you're doing is making the article longer and more cluttered, for zero gain. Taunts are made with weapons, they should be with the weapons. — Ten19 [T|C] 17:08, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

 Support I really like this, and I like how the items are ordered (primary then secondary then melee), much better than alphabetical order. -- OluapPlayer _(t) 15:28, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

 Support Well it's cooler than the actual, so go on! (one more table to upate in french XD). Tturbo _(T/C)

Cleaning sandbox articles out of categories

My tireless quest to maintain tidy categories rages on. Any objections to me removing user namespace sandbox articles from categories? User:Zoolooman/Pyro-strategy and User:IGoing/Sandbox for example. I know the intent was to work on a potentially new articles with their corresponding categories, but there's no reason for them to be actually in those categories. --Ten19 06:54, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

 Oppose Rubbish. — VeKoB 08:18, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Um. Reason? --Ten19 08:34, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

I don't see a problem with this as long as you are commenting them out instead of removing them. seb26 [talk] 08:24, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Aye, will be doing exactly that. --Ten19 08:34, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Remove Kill Icons on Update Pages

I've noticed that the kill icons have been added to the weapons list on most of the update pages. To keep with formating, I've added them to other update pages but are they really required? A class icon, weapon icon and name should be all the information you really need. It seems kind of pointless to just have there. Just thought I'd bring it up for discussion first before I removed them. ---- No-oneSpecial (talk | contribs) 11:05, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

BLU team images on class pages

I was looking for a good quality image of BLU team Medic, and it turns out... there isn't one on the entire Wiki. There's a few images that have BLU Medic in the image, but not at a good quality and not without a background. Why don't we have BLU team images on the class pages? It just seems like such an obvious thing to have, yet it's just not there. Would it be difficult to throw together 9 images and put the images at the bottom of the class page where the other class related images are? Balladofwindfishes 16:06, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Have them like tabs in the infoboxes so you can switch between the two. They'd have to be in the same positions though for the effect to be noticed.--Focusknock 20:43, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

 This is good idea! Mar 00:16, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Show preview template

I have taken the time to create an updated version of the Show preview template. The version I created links to the Recent Changes log, gives more than one reason for using the button, and thanks the user for doing so. I have also reduced the icon's size.

* Note: It has already been discussed that translating this message is not a good idea, this is because we are trying to promote using English on all talk pages.

Thank you for any input. Here is an example:

Old Show preview

{{subst:void|This template should always be substituted. Please change {{sp}} to {{subst:sp}}}} [[File:{{subst:#switch: 0 | 0 | #default = Pictogram info | 1 = Warning yellow | 2 = Warning red }}.png|25px|link=]] Please make use of the Show preview button. It gives you a preview of the edit you are making, allowing you to perfect your changes before you save the page. You can edit the whole article by clicking the edit button at the top of the page, which is preferable to editing multiple sections consecutively.
— minip 19:07, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

New Show preview

Please use the Show preview button; this feature enables an editor to preview changes before saving them. Constantly editing the same page will spam the Recent Changes log. It is possible to edit an entire page at once; this is done by clicking the edit tab located at the top of a page. Thank you for your cooperation.
— minip 19:07, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Featured articles navigator

I have created a Featured articles navigator. This can be placed on the bottom of articles that have already been tagged at the top. I believe that adding this navigator to an article will highlight its coveted status. This will also enable localized users to quickly see what other articles have been featured, or what links need to be corrected. Since there is only one Featured articles page (that all Featured article tags link to), this template will provide a browsing alternative for users who do not speak English.

This navigator is currently translated into four other languages.
Supported languages for this template: es, fr, pt-br, ru (add)

Here is an example:

I appreciate any feedback. I purposely did not add any icons to the article names. Feel free to create your own copy of this navigator.
— minip 19:51, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Audio Weapon Files Integration Discussion

So my Dream is an extra Link on every class(all 9) article. Should look like this:

• Scout Weapons Sound <- something like this.
• Scout taunts
• Scout responses ...etc.

Why? -It get's more and more important to know, what Weapon the enemy has. A Soldier with a Black Box only has 3 shots, that's your advantage. Or a Pyro with Degreaser u can hurt him a little longer... etc. Every time you hear the enemies weapon before you see him is good for you. If you can distinguish the Weapons by it's original sound you have an advantage. I don't see any weapon-sound-class related article's here. So i'm in need for help. I have almost no template skills, i know how to extract the audio file and can distinguish them, but that's it. Would like to have an open discussion and hope you all can help me.

This Editor is undead, be advised to shoot him in the head.