User:RotatcepS/plans
I am calculating observed point blank damage at ramp up using an offset to get the observed achievable values, lower than raw calculation. "offset" is a value usually based on shounic's video on projectile origins (this may not be a valid source to the wiki rules)... it's an offset such that 32 means no spacing (true point blank) and 0 means 32 spacing. Many are 23.5 offset, so 6.5 spacing. video doesn't talk about hitscan weapons so I made up numbers that meet the observations. Mostly 25 offset (7 spacing). The point is, you can't shoot somebody from inside of them - collision boxes keep you more than 0 HU apart.
Discussion:
Follow-up question: I'm tempted to add a page on the wiki with a table that summarizes the 78 ctx files' information as useful source information. But it would need updates over time (or at least a Date Stamp). It has info that can be useful, questionable value, and semi-misleading (like a Spread value on the pomson or Range which is useful on 2 files, but others have 0, 4096, 8192).
Minigun (copy to iron curtain. Tomislav needs different DPS & remove "s" while updating interval tip). Custom values for Natascha, Brass Beast, Huo-long reg & on fire)
14-54 / 1 ammo
129-514 / second
However, I'll probably come back later with evidence of something like: 13-52 / 1 ammo
125-500 / second
9-36 / 1 ammo
86-343 / second
5-19 / 1 ammo
48-190 / second
27 / bullet
12.15-18.225 / bullet
bullet count = 4 attack interval = 0.105
damage ranges should mirror shotguns (1-4 bullets are possible at any range, crit tooltips are unnecessary, use bullet count as designed) PerSecond=(1/AttackInterval)*round(BulletDamage*OneOrFour)
(Manta March 2013 edit added tooltip instead of setting bullet count)
- TODO Wiki has theoretical crit & minicrit values of 113 & 51 on the low end when I've observed practical ones of 115 & 52
- should point blanks be theoretical or achievable?
- evidence 38: https://youtu.be/ivCOJvt5YDc?t=33 minicrit 52: https://youtu.be/ivCOJvt5YDc?t=68 crit 115 https://youtu.be/ivCOJvt5YDc?t=89
- why? I believe it's ramped 50% at 0 hang time, but minimum hang time at point blank results in 38.17..38.4 damage instead of 75/2=37.5 (all round to 38). 38.4*1.35=51.84 (rounds to 52); 38.4*3=115.2 (rounds to 115)
Pistol (engineer) Also, pistol effective close is 149.3% because you can't get to actual point blank, thus the damage is 22 observed, not 23 that 150% would give you.
- 7 damage but point blank ~150% ramp up for 10 damage, max range is still 125% ramp up for 9 damage
- robot arm.ctx or whatever it is, extracted with GCFScape, decoded with VICE, shows Damage: 7 and Range:256. If you believe this, give point blank 150% ramp up (but, like the pistol, achievable is only 149.3%), and believe the max range (effective ramp is 125%), the values match what I've observed: 10 point blank (14 minicrit), 9 at range. I observed 13 minicrit at range, calc says it should be 12 - I'll need to do more tests to see if I can observe a 12.
- does energy ball do reduced building damage, too? https://youtu.be/f7yiwdxZzw0?t=177 says it doesn't.
Pistol (scout) Also, pistol effective close is 149.3% because you can't get to actual point blank, thus the damage is 22 observed, not 23 that 150% would give you.
- Wiki 1.10 reload was based on scout pistol that since was proven as 1.005
- Wiki 1.10 reload was based on scout pistol that since was proven as 1.005
Also, pistol effective close is 149.3% because you can't get to actual point blank, thus the damage is 22 observed, not 23 that 150% would give you.
- **CLOSE RANGE REQUIRES OFFSET - 125% works with all when using offset=23.5 (documented value) but NOT with 32 (no min separation).
Thus, RL effective close is 124.6% because you can't get to actual point blank, thus the damage is 112 observed, not 113 that 125% would give you. (and minicrit close is 151 observed vs 152 at 125%)
- **CLOSE RANGE REQUIRES OFFSET - 125% works with all when using offset=23.5 (documented value) but NOT with 32 (no min separation).
- Wiki base rounded down from 112.5, game conditions on similar cases seem to round up...right?
- radius on wiki is rounded - is that editor simplifying or is that how the game uses it?
Thus, direct hit effective close is 124.6% because you can't get to actual point blank, thus the damage is 149 observed, not 141 that 125% would give you. (and minicrit close is 189 observed vs 190 at 125%)
- **CLOSE RANGE REQUIRES OFFSET - 125% works with all when using offset=23.5 (documented value) but NOT with 32 (no min separation).
Thus, RL effective close is 124.6% because you can't get to actual point blank, thus the damage is 112 observed, not 113 that 125% would give you. (and minicrit close is 151 observed vs 152 at 125%)
- **CLOSE RANGE REQUIRES OFFSET - 125% works with all when using offset=23.5 (documented value) but NOT with 32 (no min separation).
- **CLOSE RANGE REQUIRES OFFSET - 125% works with all when using offset=23.5 (documented value) but NOT with 32 (no min separation).
Thus, RL effective close is 124.6% because you can't get to actual point blank, thus the damage is 112 observed, not 113 that 125% would give you. (and minicrit close is 151 observed vs 152 at 125%)
- **CLOSE RANGE REQUIRES OFFSET - 125% works with all when using offset=23.5 (documented value) but NOT with 32 (no min separation).
Thus, RL effective close is 124.6% because you can't get to actual point blank, thus the damage is 112 observed, not 113 that 125% would give you. (and minicrit close is 151 observed vs 152 at 125%) Also, 3 degrees in radians is 0.0523599, so spread of 38:1
- **CLOSE RANGE REQUIRES OFFSET - 125% works with all when using offset=23.5 (documented value) but NOT with 32 (no min separation).
- base 76.5 wiki rounds down, also wiki-ramp-up & point-blank don't agree, nor do wiki base and medium
- TODO my calc (now) & my obs & point blank wiki of 95; wiki Ramp as 96 (my calc USED to do that too)
Thus, air strike effective close is 124.6% because you can't get to actual point blank, thus the damage is 95 observed, not 96 that 125% would give you.
- this is consistent with (6*52.8%=)3.168/pellet: 3.168, 6.336, 9.504, 12.672, 15.84, (19.008), 22.176, (25.344, 28.512, 31.68);
- seen at range minicrit (6*1.35=8.1)8, (16.2)16, (24.3)24, (32.4)32, (40.5)41, (48.6)49, (not seen: 56.7=57, 64.8=65, 72.9=73, 81);
- seen crit (6*3=)18, 36(18x2), 54(x3), 72(x4), 90(x5), 108(x6), 126(x7), 144(x8), 162(x9), 180(x10)
- CLOSE RANGE REQUIRES OFFSET or <150% (mc obs don't match calc at higher pellets) (149.3% works ... based on my interp of shounic offsets)
- seen at pb: 9, 18, 27, ... 90;
- seen at pb minicrit: 12(12.15), 24(24.3), 36(36.45), (not seen 48.6), 60(NO MATCH 5*9*1.35=60.75), ... 121(NO MATCH 10*9*1.35=121.5)
- wiki 0.51 reload more, but derivatives all use 0.50
- (shotgun) CLOSE RANGE REQUIRES OFFSET or <150% (mc obs don't match calc at higher pellets) (149.3% works ... based on my interp of shounic offsets)
- (shotgun) wiki 0.51 reload more, but derivatives all use 0.50
- seen minicrit at range: 8, 16, 24, 32, 41
- (shotgun) CLOSE RANGE REQUIRES OFFSET or <150% (mc obs don't match calc at higher pellets) (149.3% works ... based on my interp of shounic offsets)
- (shotgun) wiki 0.51 reload more, but derivatives all use 0.50
- seen minicrit at range (https://youtu.be/pRKZZ1z7nH4?t=57): 6, 13 (no random spread)
- seen crit at range: 14 29 43
- (shotgun) CLOSE RANGE REQUIRES OFFSET or <150% (mc obs don't match calc at higher pellets) (149.3% works ... based on my interp of shounic offsets)
- obs/wiki agree close is 76, not (60*85%=51) 51*150%=76.5 rounds to 77. That does match 'Round To Even' rule, however.
- (shotgun) wiki 0.51 reload more, but derivatives all use 0.50
- seen minicrit at range: (https://youtu.be/ahJJIKJl-6M?t=37): 7, 14, 21, 28, 34
- seen crit: 15, 31, 46, 61, 77, 122
- (shotgun) CLOSE RANGE REQUIRES OFFSET or <150% (mc obs don't match calc at higher pellets) (149.3% works ... based on my interp of shounic offsets)
- (shotgun) wiki 0.51 reload more, but derivatives all use 0.50
- seen minicrit at range: 8, 16, 24, 32, (not seen:41), 49 (not seen: 57, 65, 73, 81)
- (shotgun) CLOSE RANGE REQUIRES OFFSET or <150% (mc obs don't match calc at higher pellets) (149.3% works ... based on my interp of shounic offsets)
- (shotgun) wiki 0.51 reload more, but derivatives all use 0.50
- vs target (https://youtu.be/Mi_MPZ4BdLk): 3, 7, 10, 14, 17?, 21?, 24?
- seen minicrit at range (https://youtu.be/vKrbbHCkI6I?t=35) 8, 16, 24, 32, 41, 49, (not seen: 56.7=57), 65, (not seen: 72.9=73, 81);
- **CLOSE RANGE REQUIRES OFFSET (32 doesn't match)
- wiki/calc close 105, but obs 104; minicrit calc 142 but obs/'wiki' 141
- obs close 10-104 matches my offsets and not wiki
Specifically, Scattergun effective close is 174.0% because you can't get to actual point blank, thus the damage is 10-104 observed, not 11-105 that 175% would give you. (and minicrit close is 141 observed vs 142 at 175%)
- **CLOSE RANGE REQUIRES OFFSET (32 doesn't match)
- minicrit 'wiki'/calc close 153, but obs 152
Specifically, FaN effective close is 174.0% so minicrit close is 152 observed vs 153 at 175%
- Close range works with 30, 25 (scatter current default), also most anything else (23.5-32)
- Wiki claims "has approximately 40% less pellet spread" although it's not listed in stats (.04 same as pistol instead of .0675) pellets 4, damage 12
- wiki/calc close 105, but obs 104; minicrit calc/'wiki' 142 but obs 141
- **CLOSE RANGE REQUIRES OFFSET (32 doesn't match)
Specifically, Scattergun effective close is 174.0% because you can't get to actual point blank, thus the damage is 10-104 observed, not 11-105 that 175% would give you. (and minicrit close is 141 observed vs 142 at 175%)
- wiki/calc close 105, but obs 104; minicrit calc/'wiki' 142 but obs 141
- **CLOSE RANGE REQUIRES OFFSET (32 doesn't match)
Specifically, Scattergun effective close is 174.0% because you can't get to actual point blank, thus the damage is 10-104 observed, not 11-105 that 175% would give you. (and minicrit close is 141 observed vs 142 at 175%)
- wiki/calc close 105, but obs 104; minicrit calc/'wiki' 142 but obs 141
- **CLOSE RANGE REQUIRES OFFSET (32 doesn't match)
Specifically, Scattergun effective close is 174.0% because you can't get to actual point blank, thus the damage is 10-104 observed, not 11-105 that 175% would give you. (and minicrit close is 141 observed vs 142 at 175%)
- TODO I could use max range 549 to get observed 24 (72 burning) at max range vs. 52.8% long range
- max range 592 gets wiki's 23 (71 burning) at max range vs. 52.8% long range; but wiki claims 526 max
- obs falloff 24 (calc/wiki 23); minicrit obs/wiki close 40 (calc 41); wiki mc burning 100-121 (calc 101-122)
- Interestingly it's 'based on' a 90dmg rocket...which is how much it gets on burning point blank hits
to match wiki (23 far, 69 far on fire): 600 or 592 max range, using either 52.8% or 50% long range to match obs (24 far, 72 far on fire): 548 max range, 50% long range. 547 works, too. (to use wiki's range of 526, not even 0% long range works for wiki or observed (except it works for not-on-fire as match of observed)) turns out to get obs numbers with long of 0 to 52.8 has to be max range of 530-562 turns out to get wiki numbers with long of 0 to 52.8 has to be max range of 550-606
burning targets: My observed had 72 far, 106 minicrit far. I should do more testing - likely 106 minicrit is just 1 minicrit afterburn (5) combined with the calculated 101 damage. Need more testing I guess.
- Needs more obs. ranged fuse in wiki, obs don't think so. obs: maybe falloff starts post-long range (time-based)? crit truly affected by range?
- Wiki says radius 189 - but same date this weapon was added others reduced from 159 to 146
