Talk:Non-player characters

Elizabeth -> Emily?

In the Last Will and Testament of Zepheniah Mann, he leaves his estate to his maidservant Elizabeth. However, Loose Canon has the Will being read as giving the estate (what's left of it, anyways) to Emily. They are doubtlessly the same person (See the images) so which name should be used on the page? Maybe Valve's just trolling, but the issue still exists. The Neotank 13:34, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

Elizabeth must be Emily. Plus it has an image of her, looking all Administratory right there. -- Smashman... _{(t • s)} 14:30, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

I spoke to Makani in person, and she told me that they are separate people, and the inclusion of the name "Emily" in Zephaniah's will was a mistake. Elizabeth, Emily, and Helen are, however, all related. Fawkes 06:39, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

Investigation of the Adminstrator's ancestry

This wiki page depicts Elizabeth/Emily as Zepheniah Mann's hand servant and also the woman who spoke with Radigan Conagher.

According to this page Elizabeth/Emily existed in the 1850s. However, forty years later she appears younger when she speaks with the Engineer's grandfather than she had in the previous page. Wouldn't the unnamed woman that spoke with Radigan Conagher be Elizabeth/Emily's daughter and the current Administrator's mother? TerminalGear 21:02, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

True dat. -- Smashman... _{(t • s)} 17:49, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

So then, shouldn't we make the distinction between Elizabeth/Emily and the unnamed woman? Because right now, all the wiki pages have them labeled as the same person... TerminalGear 19:03, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, seems reasonable enough. At least unless Valve manage to link them in another way, such as the theory that she had the third life extender machine (but that's aside the point for now). Hackett 19:05, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

1890's BLU Team

According to Makani, the only actual historical figure to appear in the 1890's BLU team portrait is Abraham Lincoln. The Engineer, Sniper, Scout, and Heavy are modeled after Tesla, Crockett, Billy the Kid and John Henry Irons, but are not necessarily supposed to be them. Spy was styled as a Fu Manchu type of character. Demoman is simply a crazy prospector, and was not drawn to resemble the original Demoman concept art. Soldier and Medic were simply drawn in the style of Civil War-era soldiers and medics, and were not meant to be specific people. Fawkes 06:45, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

Here's her blog post on the subject: http://makani.deviantart.com/journal/33304412/ Fawkes 15:41, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

Should the identities of the original team be added to the 'Trivia' section of the class pages? Or should they be left out, as most of them are merely speculation? Darthmustache 13:08, 21 July 2011 (PDT)

Radigan is a Hale?

Maybe the Engineer is a decendant of the Hale family? Maybe Saxton is the grandfather, using his own life-prolonging machine nightly? Hmm, but there was a Hale present at the will signing... Michael 22:47, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

Are you saying that because of the beefy appearance he takes as shown progressively by the hidden links of the engineer update? I think it's just an effect of Australium exposure. In any case, speculation I'd say — WindPower 22:54, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

• • Ah well, I can dream... Michael 23:14, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

Tavish's Family

I seem to recall that the Soldier vs. Demoman comic mentions the Demoman's name is Tavish, and he had a full family (Mom and Dad) at one point. Should I type up a section under Groups on this, or is his family not quite big enough to fit under it? --ANormalUsername 19:57, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Well, it would be a tad superfluous, as Mrs. DeGroot already has her own section on the page. -The Neotank ( | Talk) 22:14, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

You could combine the Mrs DeGroot bit and add a Mr DeGroot bit then call it the DeGroot Family. In groups. If you'd like. -- Smashman... _{(t • s)} 22:28, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, that sounds good. We have a section on the Sniper's parents and we don't even know what they look like. --Firestorm   22:34, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Does it mention how Mrs. Degroot lost her eyes? It can be safe to assume that she lost them because of them being Scottish Highlanders right? Kevschow 08:16, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

She didn't necessarily lose her eyes; she's just mentioned as blind. Could simply be due to old age, but considering the circumstances there probably is a link. —烏Γ ^{(kaw at me)}, 20:41, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Vladimir Bananas

was poopy joe's soviet nemesis, can we write something about him under or in poopy joe's section? Guy 21:55, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

You can put it in. -- En Ex _(talk) 21:57, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

Hippies

Hippies have been the punching bag of the game And has been mentioned quite a lot. I figured it might be nice to mention all the times Hippies has been mentioned in TF2. NumbersGuy 18:10, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Redmond in Red Manor

Added a section about how YM included Redmond in Red Manor, the location of his Artpass map. Since Valve have made the map official, that means Redmond's location is most likely canon. Omnomnick 07:26, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

I'm not sure we can call a community made map: "canon". And I'm not sure Redmond would allow a battle so close to his home. Danton 14:30, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

Well I think ill have to correct you on that when valve accepts a 3rd party map it is then considered official therefore canon.--Smokeyford 02:39, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

It's not that I don't believe you, its just I'm the kind of guy that needs proof before I believe most things. So if you can, supply some infromation that will prove your point, Smokey. Danton 18:46, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

The Sniper's parents

"Then he decides to tell his mom to tell his dad that he is a doctor now."

Is this correct? Seems like there's a parent too many in this sentence. Is it his mom or his dad? Hassun 18:48, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

Look's okay to me? Moussekateer 18:51, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

'Just tell dad I make more money than a doctor. In fact, tell dad I am a doctor now.' Basically, shorten it to 'As far as his dad knows, he is a doctor now.'--Focusknock s 18:54, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

Ah ok, thanks for clearing that up. Hassun 17:21, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Franklin D. Roosevelt

Where is he? He perfected the stairs in 1921 as said in the Gunboats page I think he should be placed in the "Historical Figures section in the Non Player Characters page Mardamien24 03:33, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

I think so too, so I'll add him. Tib 20:31, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

npc's and story characters

npcs refer to in game characters not people mentioned in the comics story characters and npcs should be different things and only the ghost and the HHH should be here.Ares5566 04:26, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

Kicasso

As I pointed out in this edit, the fact that Kicasso went through a "Hunted in the Jungle" period may be more than a coincidence. Since the BLU Engineer is Kicasso's most prominent fan, and the BLU Engineer is "the Hunted", is there a link? —烏Γ ^{(kaw at me)}, 20:44, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Francis the Talking France

Francis originated from Eric Wolpaw's website Old Man Murray. Should this be cited in the main article? Calzone 23:04, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

The trivia says "He claims to be the inventor of the French terms "Mise en scene! Auteur! Avante-garde! Montage! Even cinéma!", doesn't he just mean that France invented those words, as in they are all French terms.MEDUNN 14:13, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

I don't think the mafia is an NPC

A casual mention on the blog in a very sarcastic tone doesn't make the entire mafia an NPC. Balladofwindfishes 07:11, 23 June 2011 (PDT)

• I don't think it was even supposed to be the Mafia, I thought the joke was they had gone to an Italian Resturant assuming, because they were Italian, they were mobsters and didn't bother to listen to them because they were to busy eating. Then later just made up alot of mostly incorrect terms they had vaguly heard in connection to thye mob.MEDUNN 14:00, 24 July 2011 (PDT)

Uh. Someone outta take it down. --SilverHammer 14:01, 24 July 2011 (PDT)

doneMEDUNN 14:09, 24 July 2011 (PDT)

poopy joe

ok so this is really evidence that portal II is in the TF2 universe. cave johnson mentions the 1968senate hearing on missing astronauts. poopy joe is a missing astronaut. COInCIDENCE??? The ASHPD 14:14, 6 July 2011 (PDT)The_ASHPD

Coincidence? Yeah. Noizeblaze 14:37, 6 July 2011 (PDT)

Still though, VALVe does throw a lot of references into their games. The ASHPD 23:20, 8 July 2011 (PDT)The_ASHPD

I don't know if it's just me, but I'm just sitting here picturing Poopy Joe pooping in to a Portal and hitting Chell with his poop and I'm just laughing my ass off here. SilverHammer 23:24, 8 July 2011 (PDT)

ASPHD, I think you're reading too far into this. Astronauts go missing all the time, have you never seen star Wars?

Noizeblaze, yeah.

ASPHD also a yeah.

SilverHammer... no. Please no. =/ » Cooper Kid (Blether · Contreebs) 19:27, 24 July 2011 (PDT)

The Mann Co. Gorilla

Anyone object to removing this section? It is an unnamed animal, of which I have seen around a dozen in the storyline that have not been put in this article. Rolandius 23:10, 6 September 2011 (PDT)

 Support Eh, go ahead, it really doesn't seem important at all, nor does it contribute to the canon in any way. Shane Alvarado 23:30, 6 September 2011 (PDT)

Jerry, Giuseppe, Dublin Society?

These people only appear once in the storyline and in small portions that most rational human beings would forget in seconds, or not even notice. Are these really necessary? Fyahweather 20:15, 8 October 2011 (PDT)

Historical Figures?

Why have half of them been deleted and the other half kept? What is the rational behind the half deletion?MEDUNN 07:47, 17 October 2011 (PDT)

Someone decided, that they're not important. I actually am against that. Small historical facts were pretty funny. Hey, everyone else! Should we return not so important historical figures back? Limie Pie 07:51, 17 October 2011 (PDT)

What I didn't understand was why some were kept and some deleted. For instance, why was Isaac Newton deleted and Willaim Prescott kept? It just seemed arbitary.MEDUNN 03:48, 18 October 2011 (PDT)

Apple store manager is Steve Jobs?

I thought this was the joke in the comic? The fact that we don't see his face, the black turtleneck, the reference to "curvy" things... it seems pretty obvious that this was supposed to be the gag. I tried editing it last night, though, and it got reverted, so I thought I'd bring it up here. — The preceding unsigned comment was added by ConcernedCitizen (talk) • (contribs) 15:42, 22 October 2011

Speculation isn't exactly significant enough to put in a character's profile. CidTheNinja 23:19, 31 December 2011 (PST)

It's not really 'speculation' though, is it? It's clearly Steve Jobs, that's the entire point of the joke. He's wearing a black turtleneck. A normal Apple Store Manager would be unable to authorise the sale of the company. Saxton recognises him and his favoured mode of design, hence the 'curvy stink' line- unless this is a very, very elaborate joke and the manager is in fact Johnathan Ive. LordJusticeLeveson 04:07, 23 June 2012 (PDT)

It is speculation. Don't add that to the article again. rZ 04:12, 23 June 2012 (PDT)

I've no wish to get into an edit war here and you are clearly passionate about this, but you are way off the mark. Firstly, it isn't speculation to point out a clear reference. Next you'll be saying that the new 'Urban Professional' set has nothing to do with the film Leon, even though it is a clear reference to that film. Secondly, there's no need to threaten people, and there's no need to be unpleasant. Did you really need to write "(it's not external if it's part of the wiki, whoever added this should be punched in the face for ignorance)"? LordJusticeLeveson 16:43, 27 June 2012 (PDT)

Bombinomicon doesn't qualify as a character?

He's a sentient talking book, so I think he should qualify as a character. CidTheNinja 23:19, 31 December 2011 (PST)

It might be because a page about it/him already exists.MEDUNN 04:47, 1 January 2012 (PST)

Merasmus

"When the RED Demoman was seven years old, his mother told him that the dead rose on All Hallow's Eve and would have work for him." Uh... what is this sentence even trying to say? Gold 09:35, 17 March 2012 (PDT)

The dead rose, as in the dead did rise. » Cooper Kid (blether) • (contreebs) 10:01, 17 March 2012 (PDT)

Poopy Joe Main Article

Does it seem like Poopy Joe has accrued enough source material to merit and produce a full article from, considering the recent easter egg content? The Grand Karkasmolen 06:49, 27 June 2012 (PDT)

Zepheniah Mann

I don't get it, how come Zephieniah wrote the testament on his own skin? that's gross, but in the pic it looks like real paper, so i still don't get why it says that. Mr GcCc 10:15, 27 June 2012 (PDT)

Skin when prepared properly and dried resembles a cross between leather and paper. Haven't you ever seen skin bound books? Roaper 10:55, 6 July 2012 (PDT)

Merging "Poopy Joe" Section with "Mann Co. Monkeynautics"?

I think that we could merge those sections, because they seem to say the same thing (about the Poopy Joe incident). foxontherails 04:12, 7 July 2012 (PDT)

Gray

So clicking the stain on the Team Fortress 2 logo on their offical site takes you to this: http://www.teamfortress.com/gray/

So can we all declare now that the person ripped from the Mann Portrait is his third son Gray (the spectator) --André the Accelerator 19:13, 9 August 2012 (PDT)

Seems like it--Godisme 19:22, 9 August 2012 (PDT)

Patience Meriweather (midwife) sounds like a fitting name and role for the past version of Mrs. Pauling. Daisuke 19:30, 9 August 2012 (PDT)

Discussion point on theories: Should there or should there not be any theory based discussion on Gray Mann at this point? Currently there is a sentence proposing the man in the middle of the torn Mann family portrait is Gray Mann which has survived multiple edits. However, attempts to add another theory that the third Life Extender Machine in Loose Canon was built for Gray Mann have been removed. Both have evidence pointing to their possible credibility (the man in the photo is probably wearing gray, the first letter of the recipient of the Life Extender Machine is a G/C shape), but both are completely theoretical at this time. Long story short, should we remove both theories (and any additional ones until we get actual facts), or would it be permissible to add the theory regarding the Life Extender Machine back in?

I don't know, but, still, it's getting more obvious that the person in the picture is Gray, but, still, the life extender machine ... well. idk. But I don't think we should add the theory about the Life Extender Machine. Mio^Talk?!?  19:44, 10 August 2012 (PDT)

Wasn't there a third Life Extender Machine built and given to an unknown recipient? Or maybe this is part of Mann vs Machine, where Gray could have built his own and his own Robotic Team to fight RED and BLU for control of their father's land? Maybe these Robots will be a neutral threat that will attack the nearest player of the other team? NeoSlith 00:14, 11 August 2012 (PDT)

That's why I'm thinking that we shouldn't add the theory about the 3rd Life Extender machine. Too much theories. Mio^Talk?!?  08:41, 11 August 2012 (PDT)

New Last Will and Testament of ZM

Should we update the link to Zephenniah Mann's last will to match the latest version put out by Valve? http://www.teamfortress.com/mannwill/ -MartianSanta 14:09, 11 August 2012 (PDT)

Possible explanation on Gray Mann

TotalJaffaCake 14:34, 11 August 2012 (PDT)I have a few theorys on Gray Mann, one is that he is behind all the Man Vs Machine business with evidence pointing to him having background in technology (there is an article of Grey Mann being took by EAGLE (EAGLE is a type of software)and a few other pieces of evidence.

Another that Gray Mann is Gman (Half Life Universe) and that the evidence that Gman has some sort of machine keeping him alive fits perfectly with the Life Extenders.

My final theory is that he was just made by Valve to either add a bit more lore or thrown out there for fans to make theorys on, and then pick their favourite theory and use it as A way of making more TF2 content and really letting the community take control of the game.

If there are any problems with this article, if it should be in a different place ect, I am sorry as I have just finished starting my Wiki Account :3

TotalJaffaCake 14:34, 11 August 2012 (PDT)

GREY MANN!!!!

He's here.

Someone update the Redmond/Blutarch Mann and Grey Mann parts. Modulus365 03:12, 12 August 2012 (PDT)

I added in a new photo of Redmond Mann, should we take out the photo from Mann Manor? Shamjam96 05:49, 12 August 2012 (PDT)

Barnabas vs. Barnabus

Zepheniah's will has it with an A; Redmond, Blutarch, and Gray's birth certificate has it with a U (as signed by the man himself). It probably doesn't matter which one we use, as long as we're consistent - right now 'Barnabus' and 'Barnabus Hale' both redirect to the 'Barnabas Hale' entry on the NPCs page; if we change it we should make the redirects go the other way.

I like 'Barnabas' since that's how the name is almost always spelled in real life, but I'm not too attached. Thoughts?

Extreme creme 14:53, 12 August 2012 (PDT)

Past tense for Redmond and Blutarch?

This page correctly uses the past tense for dead people except for in Redmond and Blutarch's bios, but I don't know if there's a reason to think they're not dead or if it's an oversight. NotNoon 13:56, 18 August 2012 (PDT)

Unknown Figure

Should we add that the Unknown Figure in the Mann Family Portrait could potentially be Gray Mann, or is there not enough evidence for that? Cobalt32 20:07, 24 August 2012 (PDT)

If you have to use the word "potentially", don't add it in. -- Ragnar Homsar 20:14, 24 August 2012 (PDT)

We could add that there was some speculation about that, but if that kind of speculation doesn't warrant addition, then ok. Cobalt32 20:22, 24 August 2012 (PDT)

Miss Pauling doesn't deserve a page?

In my opinion Miss Pauling is more important then people like the Director or Poopy Joe, or the manager at the Apple Store. She's even up there with the Administrator, because there's inside jokes with her (the scout hitting on her) she has character development and she's involved in major story events (the WAR update). So why doesn't she get her own page, she's just in there with the one appearance NPCs. That's my two cents. Bubblington 10:38, 28 October 2012 (PDT)

Given her larger inclusion in the Mecha-Update, I think it's fair to say there is enough material for her to have her own page now. --Piemanmoo 20:47, 19 December 2012 (PST)

Abe Lincoln and the Third Life Extender

I think it's safe to say we can remove the information about the third life extender machine's date from Abe's info, as it's been heavily implied, if not proven as fact, that the Third Life-Extender machine was used for Gray Mann Hawkshadow741 07:05, 4 March 2013 (PST)

Picture for Director

quote from article: "The Director's current status is unknown, though he is presumed to be dead after his "interview" with the Administrator. A "MISSING" poster featuring the Director can be found in the maps Doomsday, Coal Town, and Mannworks, further hinting this."

Does any one have a picture of one of these posters? That would be great. --PyroGothNerd (talk) 14:33, 5 January 2014 (PST)

Done. ~{ TidB | t | c }~ 15:08, 5 January 2014 (PST)

Fantastic! That looks great, thank you. --PyroGothNerd (talk) 15:20, 5 January 2014 (PST)

Badland Brawlers

Are they really a baseball team? I can't think of where it is suggested that they play baseball (still looking). The scoreboard behind Soldier and Demoman in War! is basketball. The real world Farmington, New Mexico nearby is nicknamed "Baseball Town, U.S.A"? Mikado282 (talk) 18:09, 13 March 2014 (PDT)

Not-saying they don't play baseball, but the scoreboard suggests basketball. IRC, back in the day, at least community sports clubs could have sponsored teams in more than one sport

Midwife's Name?

Since when was it Patience Meriwether? There's no proof that it is, so is it OK to change it to "Midwife" or something like that?--BigBadBatter (talk) 21:02, 25 March 2014 (PDT)

Problems with the 1972-March - 1972-September dates?

6 months after Saxton Hale is defeated by Olivia Mann, Miss Pauling and Demoman see the mug shots of Spy and Scout in the announcement of their trial in The Teufort Bystander. The mug shots in the newspaper should date the arrest of Spy and Scout to the date on the mug shots September 7, 1972. The flashback and video playback sets these arrests 5 and a half months before the trial, or two weeks after the defeat of Hale. So Miss Pauling is collecting the mercenaries in late February 1973?

Maybe not? In the supposed mug shots, Scout is flexing his arms, which were seen broken 2 weeks after the defeat of Hale -- so the mugs shots were not taken at the time of the arrest, but just before the trial and the arms have healed in those months? Mikado282 (talk) 16:45, 30 March 2014 (PDT)

Claude Huggins

“

Brave "Bear Hug" Huggins. Your kids were Claude to death. — Mikado282 (talk) 17:29, 3 April 2014 (PDT)

”

Claude Huggins appears to be a crossover character from Left 4 Dead, who in that context is labeled a coward who let his children die. Huggins seems to be presented as a coward in the TF2 story, hiding while others are killed.(hiding here also)

I don't see Claude's name in that picture. Dogman15 (talk) 12:53, 3 April 2014 (PDT)

The name is not there -- the discussion can follow here whether or not the trope of a founder statue in the town square in a coward's pose is enough to imply that it is a statue of the cowardly founder, Claude Huggins. Mikado282 (talk) 17:30, 3 April 2014 (PDT)

Talk:Medic#Medic's Real name?: A hidden picture in the Über Update depicts the office of a deceased Dr. Claude Huggins. Mikado282 (talk) 11:55, 3 April 2014 (PDT)

The text on the name placard is too small to read. Dogman15 (talk) 12:53, 3 April 2014 (PDT)

The label on the box of personal effects of the deceased on desk the looks like a model alleged to be from SFM beta. The picture in that link is of questionable provenance (the page is blocked here); as is the uber update picture overlaid with the Dr. Claude Huggins nameplate, possibly sourced from Left 4 Dead related files. What I am hoping to prompt here is input from someone who has access to the primary files, or a higher resolution version of the Doctors Office. Mikado282 (talk) 17:34, 3 April 2014 (PDT)

Other Paranormal/Halloween/Spectral/Haunted/Characters

Insomuch as they relate to the Storyline (more so than some presently listed), I'm wondering about placing headings here for the likes of Bombinomicon, MONOCULUS, and Horseless Headless Horsemann, maybe even Blutarch's and Redmond's ghosts. Admittedly, like Merasmus, they are adequately covered by their own articles; so, like Merasmus, their headings in this list would most likely just cover a link to their articles.

Elizabeth -> Emily? redux

See Talk:Non-player characters#Elizabeth -> Emily?

It seems now that is could be discussed whether the name (and inferred identity) Emily might be nothing more than a publication error. The name Elizabeth is given in 1850 and 1890.

Not that the absence of the name Emily from Catch-up necessarily means anything either. While present content might be erroneous , incomplete, or somewhat speculative, I suspect the same could be said of any attempt at an edit now. It may be best just to see the rest of the series? Mikado282 (talk) 12:44, 3 May 2014 (PDT)

RED Heavy's Family

We need pictures. Pictures of Soviets! (I would do it if I had time.) Sausage Zeldas (talk) 01:48, 24 June 2014 (PDT)

Grey Mann looks like the first Doctor in Dr. Who. Trivia worthy?

Exactly as the title says. I want to know if this should be added to trivia. Here's an image for comparison. --PyroGothNerd (talk) 09:28, 4 August 2014 (PDT)

Different hair style. no signature marks on any identical spots. I think no. Magicalpony (talk) 10:04, 4 August 2014 (PDT)

Zeph"e"niah or Zeph"a"niah mann

I noticed he wrote his name with "Zephaniah Mann" in his last will and testament. Which spelling is correct?  –  Kii (talk) 20:50, 12 October 2014 (PDT)

A page for Gray Mann

The Administrator, Saxton Hale and Miss Pauling have their own pages; I just think that Gray Mann has enough significance in the storyline to have a page as well. FragBombGames (talk) 13:35, 16 January 2015 (PST)

March 11, 2015

• Whether this is a continuity error or not is unknown. If it is a continuity error, then the identity is not revealed; either way, does not need to be said.
• It is unknown how she obtained one hundred pounds of the element. “I have spent the last decade hunting it ounce by ounce.”
• So what if two characters have the same name? It is not illegal for a woman to have her mother to grandmother’s name. The 1850s Elisabeth would be well into her 60s, if not 70s or 80s, by 1890. The 1890 character looks the youngest of the three.
• Which printings of which comic showed which Elizabeth was being named 'Emily'? The reference seems lost to time.
• built by the BLU Engineer It is safe to assume Engineer made the Mark Five, but nothing clearly suggests that he made the Mark Four.
• Speculation or topics best discusses on Life Extender Machine:
  • However, when the Administrator came into scene in the first several pages of the comic, there are facial features and the cigarette that may lead to us that Helen, as said below, could be both Emily and/or Elizabeth. Which is why she would need the machine.
  • It is inferred that Helen is actually both Emily and Elizabeth, and this was hinted at in Catch-Up. The third life extender built by Radigan Conagher is currently presumed to have been made for her and not Gray Mann. There is strong evidence to this claim since, in Blood in the Water,…
  • Also Grey Mann probably built his own life extender, considering how he is intelligent enough to design and create an infinite army of robots.
• Helen has been seen in previous content with a bare right arm -- no LEM.
• Maintenance: adjust the image placement and size.

Mikado282 (talk) 23:01, 10 March 2015 (PDT) 06:34, 22 March 2015 (PDT)

Abraham Lincoln, Inventor of the Rocket Jump

So as you all probably know, Gun Mettle added the whole campaign coin thing with Abraham Lincoln on it, claiming he invented the rocket jump.

However this has never been mentioned in TF2 lore until that coin was released, and could possibly be a mistake from the developers mixing up his invention of stairs with his death FROM rocket jumping. This is debatable though.

Nonetheless, should a note be added about that possible mixup?

Additions

Noticed that the article doesn't have a group bio on Teufort Citizens, despite knowing of several, and no mention is made of Lieutenant Bites despite his appearance in the comics and in game. Any particular reason to these, or do we think they'd be valuable additions? If so I'll probably get round to adding them at some point myself ImJavert (talk) 22:44, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

New Category

Currently we are lumping several important characters in with every other miscellaneous side character, so I feel a new Category may be in order. Something along the lines of Other important characters, placed above Historical figures, with Merasmus, Darling, Archimedes, Bombinomicon and Poopy Joe (Plus potentially the Eyelander and Yeti), seems like a good addition to make those characters more obvious.

ImJavert (talk) 01:00, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

Part of the deal was status of a character changes, some characters became important over time, while some editors assumed certain characters would recur.

As noted above, some characters directly connected with TF Industries are nevertheless important to or are influential in the Storyline (and Storyline content includes all (canon) comics, maps, movies, and responses). This should be indicated in the section lead (that the characters in the section are important within the storyline).

The other part of the question is whether any more minor characters should be removed (Fedris the Enchanter should go, IMO).

Which raises an alternative, it we remove all of the minor one offs, do we need a major character section?

Maybe.

For example, Little Jack probably deserves a section, because of his central roll in the comics story, but was really nothing to do with the games Storyline. Similar for Mayor Mike, important only to limited segment of the comic, but not really "Storyline".

The Judge? meh. Mayor Mike? Keep in "other individuals".

Captain Dan: a Company name, we have no idea whether there is a Captain Dan.

Apple Store manager, Trent, and Jessica: I thought we have been excluding non-canon characters.

I support the new section, but accept that in addition to the arguments as to whether to keep or remove a minor character, we have to argue whether characters are "important" or "other".

Keep Jerry in others.

Maybe we can make a change table.

M I K A D O 282 ⊙⊙⊙⊙⊙⊙ ⊙⊙ ⊙⊙ (talk) (Help Wanted!) 02:46, 19 July 2020 (UTC)

Yeti, multi-media, but is the Storyline for only one Map, well the Storyline for a chunk of the update promotion, and important character, but not a TF Industries Storyline?

Eyelander, like Yeti, but a bit less so?

M I K A D O 282 ⊙⊙⊙⊙⊙⊙ ⊙⊙ ⊙⊙ (talk) (Help Wanted!) 03:02, 19 July 2020 (UTC)

Request

Hey, I was wondering if I'm allowed to make a main page for the mann brothers. I figured since they are such a major part of the game and story that they should have a bigger page for them Drunken Pipebomb (talk) 14:26, 27 June 2021 (UTC)

I'm not sure if that's necessary, a lot of characters can be considered a major part of the game but a lot of the info can simply be summed up here on this page here.
GrampaSwood (talk) 15:15, 27 June 2021 (UTC)

Oh, ok then. Drunken Pipebomb (talk) 19:46, 27 June 2021 (UTC)

Adjustments (New Category(ies))

I have been thinking about this again, as I have seen some other reasons to repair the page.

I see a reason to move many in "Other individuals" up, with much the same title for the section, maybe "Other characters" or "Other important characters".

What such a change would really mean is demotion of many that are presently in "Other individuals"; the challenge is coming up with a NPOV section title, like

"Minor, one-off, gag, fantastic, perjurous, non-Canon, and other really trivial characters some of whom could probably could be removed."

There, got that off my chest. Like I said, the title should be NPOV.

★M★I★K★A★D★O★1776!★ oOOOOo oo oo  (talk) (Help Wanted!) 12:27, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

I am not going to do any heavy editing while on the road this weekened; but, I am thinking about it; like putting the new heading "Other storyline characters" (for the likes of Merasmus amd Mags) just above "Historical figures". But then, there are no more influencial Historical figures than God and Devil, but in this wiki, they are also Storyline characters. After these two, there are no historically influential characters in the list more influential than Scrooge (more movies about him than any human save Jesus). However, while Scrooge is not a TF2 Storyline character, his storyline is mentioned numerous times in this wiki. (Actually, Scrooge is referenced in the Storyline!)

★M★I★K★A★D★O★1776!★ oOOOOo oo oo  (talk) (Help Wanted!) 15:13, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

Community (Non-Valve) NPCs ?

Remember the Non-Cannon NPCs we used to cover on this page (Kisses von Butternubs)?

I am struck by the sudden inclusion of the characters from the Community maps without AFAIK any recognition of Storyline canon status.

We never thought to cover "Veikko the MANNLY BLU Ghost", even though it is central to the Community Storyline of Hellstone.

At the very least, if Farmer and Gonzo are to be retained on this page, they should be moved into a Community characters section. The only confirmation of the identity of the "Farmer" is the filenames of the responses (those are the actual filenames that appear in the game files right?) Without those filenames, there is no clue as to the Announcer's identity other than the Midwestern drawl that any rural Kansan can affect. Without those filenames, the Announcer could have been an Extention Agent, custom applicator, county commissioner, National Guard officer, county sheriff, local policeman, etc.

Did we ever blink at including Davey Jones? He is definitely a Community character, but also more detailed than Farmer, and a famous romantic Historical figure (famous historical fictional or mythical figures are still Historical figures).

M I K A D O 282 🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃 🎃🎃 🎃🎃 (talk | contribs) (Help Wanted!) 14:54, 9 October 2021 (UTC)

Personally I think these shouldn't really be included. There is pretty much no information to them besides "[Character] is on [map] as [announcer/enemy]." and they don't really have any lore recognition.
GrampaSwood (talk) 15:43, 9 October 2021 (UTC)

In the vague memory of mine, Dereko used to talk about similar topic with Mr. Mikado when Davey Jones was added, from which time I kept a conclusion we made in mind: "there is a difference between community contents and community contents added to the game". For now, Dereko believes people would agree that "there is a difference between Valve and Non-Valve NPCs".

Considering the fact that NPCs in community maps are literally NPCs as well, while at the same time this article is supposed to be more story-related (or lore-related, that is to introduce characters with their stories, not the maps), Dereko would prefer the plan of moving all community NPCs under a single section. 11:19, 12 October 2021 (UTC)

I have also be thinking that Davy Jones is non-Canon Community, and on that point, what is on NPC is redundant to what is now on Cursed Cove and Announcer.

Now I look at what I wrote for Dr. Cadaverus Hale as non-Canon Community.

M I K A D O 282 🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃 🎃🎃 🎃🎃 (talk | contribs) (Help Wanted!) 01:43, 14 October 2021 (UTC)

 Dead! (Dug up and moved the body per following discussion.) M I K A D O 282 ⊙⊙⊙⊙⊙⊙ ⊙⊙ ⊙⊙ (Contact Mikado282 (SM)) | (contribs) (Help Wanted!) 03:29, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

Community announcers merge tag

•  Support Delete/Merge

This is a bit complicated because the proposed merge target is both the Community announcers page and the "respective map pages". Some of the context has changed this this tag (Community announcers page has been developed), but still, this section is misplaced.

Delete the (NPC) Announcers section. These are non-cannon. While they are case-by-case interesting or not-at-all interesting, they are each relevant only to one page each.

Merge any content in the deleted section that is not already covered in the "respective map pages" to those pages. (Present discriptions and links in Community announcers is adequate for that page.)

M I K A D O 282 ⊙⊙⊙⊙⊙⊙ ⊙⊙ ⊙⊙ (Contact Mikado282 (SM)) | (contribs) (Help Wanted!) 13:51, 19 January 2023 (UTC) 14:31, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

•  Support Delete/Merge

Dereko agrees. While the recently developed page is supposed to be voice-line-orinted, contents focused on background, figure and other aspects should be covered in the corresponding map pages. I'd like to propose moving Dr. Cadaverus Hale to the page Monster Bash as well, in order to improve the offcial attribute of this page. 08:02, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

•  Support for Merge

Those announcers seem to be irrelevant to the Team Fortress 2 storyline. They are community-made. NPCs page should only allow the cannon characters to be listed. Meanwhile, the articles of respective community announcers are too mini due to the lacking of the connection with the tf2 storyline. One page for them is enough.

-- X BEUFK-Contributions-Talk 15:06, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

 Dead! per Dereko.

M I K A D O 282 ⊙⊙⊙⊙⊙⊙ ⊙⊙ ⊙⊙ (Contact Mikado282 (SM)) | (contribs) (Help Wanted!) 23:18, 4 February 2023 (UTC)

Is Saxon Hale currently an NPC?

After the Versus Saxton Hale mode was added, he was technically a playable character. Should we leave him in this article? — DanteDevil (talk) 00:19, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

Yes, although he's technically playable, I think a lot of places will link here as well as having been here for several years now.
| s | GrampaSwood (talk) 05:56, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

'Unknown Individual'= Gray Mann deserves at least a mention

Seeing as the last time this was brought up was over a decade ago, I'm gonna throw this back out here. I believe there's quite a substantial amount of evidence that points to this person being Gray Mann. The Engi update (2010) revealed the full Mann Family picture coinciding with the Loose Canon comic, which *could* foreshadow Gray Mann. (As seen in the final page of the comic, as the obscured 3rd person with a Life Extender Machine.) Oct 27, as the background to the Halloween update page, we get Gray Manns' first name drop under Zephenia Manns will, which explicitly cites that they met a year prior to his death. Blood Brothers (2012) is released, where we get the first comic, which reveals Gray Mann.

I'd say it's pretty misleading to say this man is unknown when it was obviously a piece of Valves ARG foreshadowing Gray Mann.

Ban (talk) 22:45, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

Considering both Redmond and Blutarch are in those pictures, but then act surprised and don't know who Gray Mann is (even after he introduces himself), it seems very unlikely (if not impossible) that it's Gray Mann.
| s | GrampaSwood (talk) 22:54, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

That's easily explained by the fact that they're idiots who didn't know they had an extra brother and therefore didn't know who he was on their original meeting. He says so himself that he stayed away from the Mann family, and most likely used the element of surprise as a part of his strategy towards overtaking the both of them.

Ban (talk) 23:00, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

I think if the theory relies on "they're idiots", it's not really a very solid theory. If he stayed away from the family, it's more likely that he met with Zepheniah (although I can only find it in his last will that he got blackmailed, not necessarily that they met up but I might be looking in the wrong place) in private rather than at the family portrait.
| s | GrampaSwood (talk) 23:14, 17 August 2023 (UTC)