Talk:Critical hits/Archive 1

The following discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it.

Mini-Crit Capitalization

Considering how Crit is capitalized, shouldn't it be Mini-Crit, not Mini-crit? --Firestorm 21:26, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

That's what WindBOT had at first, but then Smashman yelled at me on Steam because of it. — Wind 21:33, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

He does that, sometimes --Firestorm 22:46, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Bump, because this is serious business --Firestorm 00:22, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

This is sewious? AbeX300 02:36, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

That post was completely pointless. --Firestorm 03:10, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

Merge

Originally posted at Talk:First Blood. History merged into this page 04:12, 11 September 2010 (UTC).

 Support: -Shine () 07:30, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

 Support: --Firestorm 07:44, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

 Support: -- OluapPlayer _(t) 23:11, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

 Comment: I think this would be more relevant contained within the Arena article, however, because game modes do not have individual articles (something we might want to consider changing), it would be hard to cleanly integrate. -- Nineaxis 23:15, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

 Support: Really no reason not to. -The Neotank ( | Talk) 15:06, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

 Support: Add it to critical hit. -- Nightbox _{(t s)} 11:52, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

 Support: HIT IT, DOC — Wind 04:03, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Disable crits in trivia

Considering how small the section on disabling crits is, and how it does not pertain to normal gameplay, I believe it should be put in trivia, as opposed to getting its own section. --Stevoisiak 21:32, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Proposal: Move to Critical hit

It makes more sense to use singular in this page title, in my humble opinion. ~ lhavelund ^{(t ▪ c)} 04:05, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

Just posted here to test signature ban me plz

This was a joke. What about we poot mini-crits to another page? Whabat that? --Zomgcorp 15:50, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

Redundant Links

I've noticed, specifically in the achievement section, that there are links that lead to the Critical hit page (this one), despite the page itself being the Critical hit page. I'd fix this myself, but the error seems to lie within the achievement templates themselves. Example: Revengineering has a link to this page, as do many other achievements.

Is this accurate?

"Backstabs instantly kill the enemy by dealing damage equal to 6x their current health (unless the player being backstabbed is a Spy using the Dead Ringer, in which case it will deal 1/6 of their current health"

Is this accurate? If Dead Ringer reduces by 90%, it means it reduces to 10%. 10% of 6x (600%) is 0.6x (60%), not 1/6. (16%) Webrunner 07:59, 6 July 2011 (PDT)

A backstab on a Dead Ringer should be 60%, I believe. Freakie 08:13, 6 July 2011 (PDT)

Actually, I'm not so sure now that I think of it, we need someone to test this. Freakie 08:25, 6 July 2011 (PDT)

"The crit boost electricity effect will randomly appear on its own in large quantities in the map at the end of a round."

I'm pretty sure this isn't random at all; the boost effect is being attached to spectators. Especially noticeable when someone who's being spectated has two boost effects, one on their weapon and one near their head. Dragonsbrethren 15:02, 13 August 2011 (PDT)

Combat Text

I don't believe that the 'Critical Hit!!!' text not being displayed is a bug, this was clearly intentional, they even defined a different font to use for crits. It should be noted somewhere in the article itself, and I may do that later if I have the time. If anything is a bug it's that the 'Mini Crit!' text is still displayed when a teammate scores a mini crit, instead of showing the damage they did. When a Medic is healing a teammate they see all of the damage their patient is causing, and it makes sense that the same would apply to Jarate and other mini-crit assists. Dragonsbrethren 15:51, 13 August 2011 (PDT)

Maximum Mini-Crit Damage Question

So it says Mini-Crits inflict 35% more damage. Does this mean that Mini-Crits will also inflict 35% more damage at close range, turning the maximum non-Crit ramp-up from 150% of normal (or 175% for Scout shotguns, & less for a few other weapons, like stickies) to 202.5% of normal, or does the max ramp-up remain the same, so the Mini-Crit range is only from 135% to 150% of normal?

Litnin200 21:43, 3 September 2011 (PDT)

Critical Hit as a placeholder for Dota 2 spell = trivia?

Link to some placeholder spell icons. In the dota2 beta, the critical hit text from TF2 is used as a placeholder. Is this trivia worthy? I'm on the fence, personally, but I thought I'd mention it Balladofwindfishes 18:38, 18 September 2011 (PDT)

Knockback

I can't find any references to the relationship between crits/mini-crits and knockback in either this article or the knock back article. I know that from personal experience all criticals have a pronounced knockback effect on airborne targets (be it from explosive, melee, or hitscan damage). It seems like an important aspect to the nature of critical hits that is somehow unexplored. Telamascope 08:21, 10 October 2011 (PDT)

Some interesting weapon quirks

About the crossbow, does range affect crit dmg? Also, reading gunslinger crit, there is a slight mistake. It crits on hitting a player on the third swing. U can hit an ally twice, then hit an enemy for a crit.Nibelhim 05:35, 4 November 2011 (PDT)

For the crossbow, it does. Its base damage varies by distance. For gunslinger, that is a known glitch that I think was fixed at some point. RedMage 05:49, 4 November 2011 (PDT)

That glitch with the Gunslinger still works if you're hitting a building - works a treat if a Spy pops up while you're trying to upgrade! » Cooper Kid (blether) • (contreebs) 06:25, 4 November 2011 (PDT)

Critical Hit Weapon View

I was wondering if we could add to each weapon page what the weapon looks like when boosted by critical hits. Is this something we can do or would it fit better here?--Magnum Force-Enforcer 13:55, 8 March 2012 (PST)

 Comment: Don't think that it is necessary, all Particle effects (including critical sparks) can be seen here. Thay are same for all weapons... ANGEL_UNDEAD 06:55, 9 March 2012 (PST)

Yeah I guess so. I still think it would be cool to have on each weapon page what the weapon looks like when crit boosted.--Magnum Force-Enforcer 18:13, 9 March 2012 (PST)

Critical Hit Chance, Erroneous Information

I added this as a comment in the section, but I'll post it here too: "Just as a note: I removed the erroneous information regarding the 50% melee critical hit chance. The test being done by the reference is flawed: Doing something 100 times is not indicative of its critical hit chance (I.E: Attacking 100 times and getting 64 critical hits does NOT mean that the chance to critically hit is 64%, that's a fallacy). The graph to the right clearly shows the ramp-up and where it flatlines." The test being performed is relying on inaccuracies to come up with its conclusion. Odin(Reborn) 09:58, 27 April 2013 (PDT)

The difference of 64% versus 25% is quite significant. I wouldn't dismiss the data based on "Well it's not what valve says it is". To me, this requires further testing. The article was not claiming that it was exactly 64%, it was merely pointing out that this number seemed high.

You should avoid leaving comment text within the page--it looks messy. Leave comments on deletions in brief edit summaries, or on the talk page. Darkid (|) 12:16, 27 April 2013 (PDT)

I kept the comment in there because I didn't want anyone to think that I just randomly removed the information for no reason. Odin(Reborn) 15:07, 28 April 2013 (PDT)

Anything you put in the edit summary will be obvious to anyone looking to see what happened. Darkid (|) 15:09, 28 April 2013 (PDT)

Maximum Melee Crit Chance.

Can we get a source that suggests the maximum melee crit chance is 25%? To my knowledge, the maximum crit chance IS sixty-five percent, but it seems that people think it's 25%. We already had a source that suggests the maximum crit chance is 65%, but I have yet to see any evidence that suggests a 25% chance. TheIgnorantMedic (talk) 21:54, 9 June 2013 (PDT)

I saw that prove that it was 2 years old. I think you need a newer prove for about crit change. Rikka Takanashi (talk) • (contributions) 22:17, 9 June 2013 (PDT)

If i remember correctly, The person who stated 25% was darkid. I believe he was doing some hard testing. However i may be wrong. Ashes (talk) 23:03, 9 June 2013 (PDT)

I'm sorry, but I haven't seen any evidence against a 65% crit chance, and I did test it myself, using the itemtest map and some bots as engineer, and it really does look like it has a 65% cap. After allowing my sentry to fire on it's own for a while, I destroyed it and started meleeing the bots. It seemed to be roughly two thirds (66%) of my melee attacks were crits. Link to download DEM file of my test. TheIgnorantMedic (talk) 23:41, 9 June 2013 (PDT)

Hm, I'll direct Darkid (assuming he see's this himself) to this discussion. As i do recall him doing some hard testing regarding crits before. Ashes (talk) 23:59, 9 June 2013 (PDT)

Could it be that melee weapons use a unique crit combo system? Rather than thinking of a melee weapon as a single shot weapon where each swing has the same critical hit chance, what if Valve made it so that after a critical hit is successfully rolled another critical hit combo is more likely to happen. That would skew the percentage to be really high if you are doing nothing but meleeing 100 bots in a row. I have no proof on this, just something that I thought might be possible because of how the system works for rapid fire weapons. Rolen47 (talk) 09:13, 13 October 2013 (PDT)

The test which was performed which led to this whole discrepancy (and what is referenced on the main page) is flawed. If you max out your crit chance then attack 100 times, it doesn't mean that the crit chance is 65 if you land 65/100 crits. This is the official summary by Valve. It is still relevant since the crit system has not been changed since. Since no one can definitively confirm about the 'new' crit chance, I think it's better to just use what Valve has stated it is. Changing it back for now. Odin(Reborn) (talk) 15:20, 19 November 2013 (PST)

Can confirm. I recorded 1000 hits, scored around 641. I can redo, if you like (it was a pain). By hitting an enemy with every swing, I guarantee my damage to be over the 800 cap. I also ran the test without--got 15% (which agrees). Again, I can record (oh gods) if you want. There are intermediate tests which can be done (sun on a stick) to generate the graph... if someone else is willing to do that. Darkid (|) 15:53, 19 November 2013 (PST)

Weapons Not Showing Crit Glow

Just a quick query, would it be worth creating a list or table or something that lists weapons that can't crit glow either due to their VMT or because they are back/feet items? It doesn't necessarily have to be on this page, this one just seemed the most appropriate place to bring it up. --Omolong (talk) 11:08, 24 June 2013 (PDT)

Not really. No point in making a table. Its just going to be a waste if valve fixes them. Ashes (talk) 11:42, 24 June 2013 (PDT)

Vaccinator Resistance

"The extra damage is of the "critical" type instead of matching the weapon's original type, meaning it cannot be resisted by the Vaccinator's healing" This is out of date or misleading. The Vaccinator demonstration video clearly shows damage resistance to incoming critical hits when using the charge. Copycatalyst (talk) 02:25, 20 October 2013 (PDT)

When Ubercharge only, not the healing... Although it's bugging but not listed on its page, I don't know what to deal on this one.... Rikka Takanashi (talk) • (contributions) 03:01, 20 October 2013 (PDT)

Text or table

Many people asks me about this problem that they are uncomfortable to hide and unhide the table for just read the single note for the weapon. So I decided to try make the text version of these tables. So the question is "Should we still use the table format or change to the text?" Rikka Takanashi (talk) • (contributions) 05:43, 8 February 2014 (PST)

I personally would prefer sticking to the tables, as the item icons/names and slot names fit nicely to that kind of format. The opening/collapsing isn't really a problem in my opinion. (contribs ▪ talk) 05:46, 8 February 2014 (PST)

I'd stick with tables, as they help keep the page consistent with the rest of the wiki in terms of style. - COBALT 05:55, 8 February 2014 (PST)

Medi guns

Medi guns are currently listed under "Weapons that are exempt" due to their inability to deal damage even though they can be crit-boosted. However the medi guns can deal damage in Mann vs. Machine using the projectile shield. So the obvious question is; when a Medi gun is crit-boosted does the projectile shield inflict critical damage? If yes should they be moved to "Weapons that cannot gain random crits and cannot gain situational crits" with a footnote explaining that it only applies to Mann vs. Machine? - Tasty Salamanders (talk) 07:26, 29 March 2016 (PDT)

Well this has been awhile, I decided to enquire elsewhere and got an answer: https://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/4ie5bz/can_the_projectile_shield_deal_crits/

The projectile shield cannot crit, but it can mini-crit. Move medi guns from "Weapons that are exempt" to "Weapons that cannot crit in any way"? - Tasty Salamanders (talk) 05:31, 8 May 2016 (PDT)

Should grapple hook go in List of weapons unable to deal critical hits or mini-crits?

It can be crit boosted and it shows critical sparks. COOLKENu (talk) 04:14, 14 May 2016 (PDT)

I'm pretty sure that the grapple itself deals critical contact and bleed damage in most videos I've seen (and my own experience with the crit-boost powerup). Since it can deal critical hits, it shouldn't be listed in that category. Archrelico "Mexi" 06:20, 14 May 2016 (PDT)

Add mention that buildings are immune to crits maybe?

While the Buildings page notes, in passing, that they're immune to critical hits, there doesn't seem to be any mention of that here. As I keep encountering a large number of players on [what's left of] pubs who believe a kritzkrieg pop into a sentry makes sense, I tend to wonder if it might be helpful to the community to have that piece of information prominently available here - especially since some parts of the text of this page seem to be deliberately target agnostic, it's a bit ambiguous, at best. Slashproc (talk) 14:55, 24 July 2016 (PDT)

Bushwhacka

Where should the Bushwhacka be added in this article? I tried adding it, but a user has said that it didn't correctly fit as it wasn't a Critical boost weapon. Any ideas? Kamdonius (talk) 19:01, 26 March 2017 (PDT)

The Bushwhacka already has a place under Weapons that cannot gain random critical hits but can gain situational critical hits. It's explained why it's there already. Ashes (talk) 19:38, 26 March 2017 (PDT)

Ah, I see it now. Thank you, Ashes! Kamdonius (talk) 19:42, 26 March 2017 (PDT)

Delete "Former ways to achieve a mini-crit" section

As I understand it, descriptions of weapon functions in the past before certain updates is not normally included in weapon articles. If this section is presently not a mess or out-of-date, it will be soon after another round of weapon changes. I propose that the section of "Former ways to achieve a mini-crit" be deleted. Mikado282 (talk) 16:55, 10 August 2017 (PDT)

 Agree I don't see the point of this one to be honest. Rikka Takanashi (talk) • (contributions) 09:33, 11 August 2017 (PDT)

Backburner in the wrong place

Backburner is under "Cannot get random crits but can get situational crits." However, the backburner can get random crits. GuyOfTheEgo (talk) 01:11, 28 March 2018 (UTC)

Actually, it can't deal random critical hits. Looking at items_game.txt, you can see it has crit mod disabled hidden 0.--MCandRBfan (talk) 17:41, 13 December 2018 (UTC)

Should Valve make it that buildings receive the extra damage from critical hits?

Think it should, what do you guys think?

Thomgamer51 (talk) 19:04, 19 September 2019 (UTC)

This page is for discussions about the articles itself, not for what the article is about. And also: no
GrampaSwood (talk) 19:18, 19 September 2019 (UTC)

No, because the Southern Hospitality would suffer from it. Also, Talk pages are meant to discuss things on the Wiki page, and not mechanics in the game. Please use the Steam Community forums for such things. - ▪ - 19:19, 19 September 2019 (UTC)

Anyway to disable Critical spark?

I have checked List of useful console commands and Valve developer Wiki for it, according to List of TF2 Particles on Valve developer Wiki, the names of the particles should be critgun_weaponmodel_blu and critgun_weaponmodel_red. Maybe r_drawparticles will work, but Dereko needs certain numbers of the effects to make it work. 07:16, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

Box for Weapons That Guarantee Mini-Crits?

Should the section detailing weapons that can/can't deal random crits and can/can't deal situational crits have boxes for weapons that can guarantee mini-crits, such as the Detonator? Kestrelguy (talk) 20:30, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, the Detonator, the Cow Mangler and the Back Scatter can do situational minicrits (minicrits counts as crits for the game). Maybe not a new box but adding these weapons to their respective lists · Ashe (talk) 05:48, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

2 times only on shotguns and scatterguns

While the wiki says 3 times damage multiplier, shotguns and scatterguns can only get a 2 times damage multiplier. Should we accommodate for this. MagicalJester (talk) 08:41, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

My bad, just relized that it does base 60 for shotgun and. crits dont apply to ramp up. So ignore this post MagicalJester (talk) 08:52, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

Reflected random crits

As a pyro main, I have to say that one thing I would be disappointed by if random crits were removed is reflecting a random crocket. This would technically be a very minor niche buff to soldier, as well as making the Hotshot achievement more difficult to get. Zeebeeplayz (talk) 19:50, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

Please use the Steam Discussions for this kind of topic. The wiki's talk pages are for discussing their respective articles. - BrazilianNut (talk) 21:02, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

The preceding discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it.