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== Revival of 'List of Underworlds' table rework project. ==

I saw that the [[Underworld]] page is fairly out-of-date, and that there has been a few projects with the aim of redoing the table that appear to have been abandoned.

Based on the existing projects and my own pet peeves, I felt it might be better to simplify it down to just an overall 'Description' column that allows for more open description of the underworlds, with finer details like buffs upon entering/exiting able to go in the 'Details' column. I've created a proof of concept using just [[Bloodwater]], with data copied from the main Underworld page (so it may have inaccuracies or grammatical errors).

{| class="wikitable" cellpadding=2 style="text-align:center;"
|- style="height: 20px;"
! class="header" width="15%" | {{common string|Map}}
! class="header" width="45%" | {{common string|Name}} & {{common string|Description}}
! class="header" width="20% | {{common string|Details}}
! class="header" width="20% | {{common string|Gallery}}
|-
| rowspan=2 | [[File:Pl bloodwater.png|center|210px|link=Bloodwater{{if lang}}]]<br>'''{{italics|{{map link|Bloodwater}}}}'''
| '''Purgatory'''<br>
Consists of [[Environmental death#Lava|lava]] and [[Environmental death#Health drain|poisonous air]]. If a player takes one of [[MONOCULUS|MONOCULUS']] portals, their health is fully restored and they are transported to a small set of small islands with a few [[Magic Spells]] scattered around. Leaving through the white portal takes them back to the control point with a series of temporary buffs, including full Critical hits. Attacking MONOCULUS with these Crits stuns him for a few seconds.
| Details for 'Purgatory' would go in this section.
| [[File:Bloodwater_underworld_1.jpg|center|210px]]
|-*
| '''Loot Island'''<br>
Another location in Purgatory. Players can access it by touching the [[Bombinomicon_(character)|Bombinomicon]] that appears once MONOCULUS has been defeated; they must then make their way to the giant skull and get the Bombinomicon in there. Once they do, they are taken back to the control point with a series of buffs and a Rare Magic Spell. Similar to [[Eyeaduct]], the air in Loot Island is harmless, the cease-fire would have ended, and players may attack their enemies on this location. Also, staying here for too long causes the island to explode, killing anyone on it.
| Details for 'Loot Island' would go in this section.
| [[File:Bloodwater_underworld_2.jpg|center|210px]]
|}

I'm not great at formatting tables, so please let me know what you think of it, and what you would change about it; I hope we can replace the old table after so long!
<br>[[User:Kibblekip|<font color="7D4071">Kibblekip</font>]] <sup>[[User Talk:Kibblekip|<font color="803020"><b>T</b></font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Kibblekip|<font color="256D8D"><b>C</b></font>]]</sup> 12:00, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

:I think a much simpler table would be better, scrapping all the explanations and just having some basic info similar to what was proposed on [[Template talk:Water locations table]].<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] {{!}} [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] {{!}} [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 14:28, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

::I see what you mean yeah, I like how the first of those two tables look given its smaller size would prevent it from being too cramped while still including an image of the underworld itself, though I feel it potentially limits how health/ammo kits in the underworld of varying sizes and amounts can be acknowledged to be in an Underworld to a more specific degree without those also having their own column (off the top of my head of things worth mentioning otherwise is health drain, environmental hazards, entry/exit buffs and spells).<br>[[User:Kibblekip|<font color="7D4071">Kibblekip</font>]] <sup>[[User Talk:Kibblekip|<font color="803020"><b>T</b></font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Kibblekip|<font color="256D8D"><b>C</b></font>]]</sup> 02:25, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

:::I've tried reformatting it a bit based on the table(s) you linked to be more simplified, and reorganized it slightly.

::: {| class="wikitable" cellpadding=2 style="text-align:center;"
|- style="height: 20px;"
! class="header" | {{common string|Map}}
! class="header" | {{common string|Gallery}}
! class="header" | {{common string|Pickups}}
! class="header" | {{common string|Features}}
|-
| rowspan=2 | [[File:Pl bloodwater.png|center|256px|link=Bloodwater{{if lang}}]]<br>'''{{italics|{{map link|Bloodwater}}}}'''
| [[File:Bloodwater_underworld_1.jpg|center|196px]]<br>{{italics|Purgatory}}
| width=256px | basic details, i.e health, ammo, spells; see below for potential example of this<br>(even though 'loot island' contains none of these lol)
| width=128px align="left" |
{{Check}} Health drain<br>
{{Check}} Hazards<br>
{{Check}} Exit Portal
|-*
| [[File:Bloodwater_underworld_2.jpg|center|196px]]<br>{{italics|Loot Island}}
|
[[File:Healthbar.png|32x24px]]&ensp;x2&emsp;[[File:Healthpie.png|32x24px]]&ensp;x1

[[File:Smallammo.png|32x24px]]&ensp;x4&emsp;[[File:Mediumammo.png|32x24px]]&ensp;x2&emsp;[[File:Largeammo.png|32x24px]]&ensp;x2

[[File:Spellbook Pickup.png|32x24px]]&ensp;x2&emsp;[[File:Spellbook Pickup 3.png|32x24px]]&ensp;x1
| width=128px align="left" |
{{Cross}} Health drain<br>
{{Check}} Hazards<br>
{{Cross}} Exit Portal
|}

:::Some things obviously still need improving; ideally the spell types would be easier to differentiate by including their particle effects, hazards could be provided in more detail, and additional features listed, but otherwise I feel this could potentially work? Should be more friendly for translation too, though it is just a mockup for the basic structure.<br>[[User:Kibblekip|<font color="7D4071">Kibblekip</font>]] <sup>[[User Talk:Kibblekip|<font color="803020"><b>T</b></font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Kibblekip|<font color="256D8D"><b>C</b></font>]]</sup> 22:06, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

::::I think the pickups bit can be removed, just have a checkmark for spells, hazards, health drain, uber/crit on exit maybe, and an additional section for small notes (e.g. "Starts a 3v3" for Moldergrove, but nothing major).<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] {{!}} [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] {{!}} [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 22:14, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

:::::I guess the pickups section would be somewhat unnecessary yeah. In my head listing buffs could be approached as two checks for 'Buffs on entrance' and 'Buffs on exit' (with exit greyed out if there isnt an exit), with what the specific buffs are listed in the notes section? I feel it is worth clarifying at the least what the buffs are and maybe if rare spells are present within the underworld or not (hazards I feel aren't as important to clarify on).<br>[[User:Kibblekip|<font color="7D4071">Kibblekip</font>]] <sup>[[User Talk:Kibblekip|<font color="803020"><b>T</b></font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Kibblekip|<font color="256D8D"><b>C</b></font>]]</sup> 22:34, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

::::::I would do something like:<br>{{Cross}} Health drain<br>{{Check}} Hazards<br>{{Check}} Speed on entrance<br>{{Check}} Speed on exit<br>{{Check}} Critical hits on exit<br>{{Check}} ÜberCharge on exit.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] {{!}} [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] {{!}} [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 22:42, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

{{Outdent|7}} The problem is not every underworld heals you on when you enter, some apply a healing buff, some just set your health to max, some do(n't) give uber on entrance, etc. I feel there would be too many factors and inconsistencies to account for with checks, and that it would be better to clarify on the buffs in the extra notes section and just use a basic buff on entrance or exit check. Though if you feel it would still be fine and there isn't a need to be specific about the healing amount and such, we can work with that.<br>[[User:Kibblekip|<font color="7D4071">Kibblekip</font>]] <sup>[[User Talk:Kibblekip|<font color="803020"><b>T</b></font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Kibblekip|<font color="256D8D"><b>C</b></font>]]</sup> 23:05, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

:Yeah just Healing on entrance works. The main concern here is keeping the table up-to-date for all languages.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] {{!}} [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] {{!}} [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 23:09, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

::I hadn't considered that actually yeah, good point. Maybe it would be best to display it like:<br>On entrance:<br>&emsp;{{Check}}Healing<br>&emsp;{{Cross}}Speed<br>&emsp;{{Check}}ÜberCharge<br>&emsp;{{Cross}}Crits<br>And then repeat for on exit? I think those four cover everything that can occur other than receiving a spell, at least, though that can probably be added while still being translation friendly.<br>[[User:Kibblekip|<font color="7D4071">Kibblekip</font>]] <sup>[[User Talk:Kibblekip|<font color="803020"><b>T</b></font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Kibblekip|<font color="256D8D"><b>C</b></font>]]</sup> 23:28, 16 August 2024 (UTC)