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| − | == Begin ==
| + | {{Talk archive |
| − | | + | | arc1name = Archive 1 |
| − | Added basics, don't know what to do with availability, will be uploading all the bp icons for the different counters soon, thanks. - [[User:Devozade|Devozade]] 18:02, 22 March 2012 (PDT)
| + | | arc1link = Talk:Strange Part/Archive 1 |
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| − | Anyone know how you get these? If so, we need to add that. --[[User:Nmolby|Nmolby]] 18:09, 22 March 2012 (PDT)
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| − | Are you sure that it is found in crates 41 and 42? --[[User:Nmolby|Nmolby]] 18:21, 22 March 2012 (PDT)
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| − | :Through discussions I have seen so far on the schema side of things. - [[User:Devozade|Devozade]] 18:22, 22 March 2012 (PDT)
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| − | ::Ok, its better than unknown. --[[User:Nmolby|Nmolby]] 18:22, 22 March 2012 (PDT)
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| − | Anyone know if you can take a counter and put it on another item if it has already been used? Also, when you trade it, if it has to stay with the item, does the extra counter go to?? --[[User:Nmolby|Nmolby]] 18:27, 22 March 2012 (PDT)
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| − | ::Another note, this item has no level, it doesn't even have the line in the item panel, not sure how to leave that line blank in the backpack panel template. - [[User:Devozade|Devozade]] 07:10, 23 March 2012 (PDT)
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| − | It they are all uncrated, then why don't we just say the only way to get them is from uncrating? --[[User:Nmolby|Nmolby]] 14:08, 24 March 2012 (PDT)
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| − | == Origins == | |
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| − | Hmm, this is very similar to the kill counter that was shown in Meet the Engineer. However, this is probably speculation. [[User:Upgrade|Upgrade]] 18:29, 22 March 2012 (PDT)
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| − | :It does look very similar and i think they based this on it. --[[User:Nmolby|Nmolby]] 18:32, 22 March 2012 (PDT)
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| − | == Use ==
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| − | Got a "heavies Killed" strange part, haven't actually used it but found out that a strange weapon can only have three parts added, meaning a weapon with two counters already, like a Strange Jag, can potentially have five counters total.[[User:Alioramus|Alioramus]] 01:13, 23 March 2012 (PDT)
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| − | == Gib counter ==
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| − | Does it go up if the dead player has a Bombinomicon in his loadout? [[User:Pwnator|Pwnator]] 01:42, 23 March 2012 (PDT)
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| − | == Main image ==
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| − | Why was the main icon changed to headshots? I kept it as the heavies killed one because that's the one used for Strange Part in the catalogue. - [[User:Devozade|Devozade]] 03:37, 23 March 2012 (PDT)
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| − | == Permitted weapons section ==
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| − | I added a table with the permitted combinations. Right now this is based on guesswork and common sense, so it needs to be verified and updated.
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| − | Some things I'm not sure about:
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| − | * Can the `Buildings destroyed' be added to an Electro Sapper (since this already counts destroyed buildings)?
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| − | * Can a Wrench have a Gibs counter (a level three Sentry can Gib, but a wrench by itself can't)? Same for the other wrenches, obviously. On the whole, the Gib counter is the one that needs the most testing, I think. For instance: Any Eyelander kill is a gib kill, so the gib counter would simply match the `normal' counter. Right now, I've just taken the list from the [[Gibs]] page. (For the gibbing taunt kills, I've added the required weapons, such as the equalizer and gunslinger)
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| − | * I added the flamethrowers to the Headshot posibilities, as you can headshot with reflected huntsman arrows. These combos need to be verified though.
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| − | * Do the Mantreads cause damage to buildings the player lands on? Can't find this on the wiki. For now I've assumed they don't. (and thus can't have a buildings destroyed counter)
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| − | * I've assumed that the medigun assist counters are not applicable to these counters.
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| − | Also, right now, this is a long table, It might be an idea to change it to a matrix, with the Strange Parts on top and the complete list of strange weapons on the left, and checkmarks indicating the possible combinations. However, if Valve adds more parts, this may become unwieldy (I expect at least 8 more, personally) Any thoughts on this?
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| − | Regards, --[[User:Itsacon|Itsacon]] 03:45, 23 March 2012 (PDT)
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| − | :The sniper can have the headshot counter added to it. I just tried it in-game and I can add it. I would edit the table but I'm an idiot and don't want to break it Proof: [http://i.imgur.com/xNKe9.png] Note: the huntsman in the screenshot isn't strange [[User:Alfie|Alfie]] 16:55, 23 March 2012 (PDT)
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| − | :Extracted the data from the schema? There's some oddities with what counter can be used with what, as expected. And as some tables on the wiki are much wider, perhaps make there be 2 columns of attributes. - [[User:Devozade|Devozade]] 04:00, 23 March 2012 (PDT)
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| − | :: No, I didn't extract the data (no idea how I'd do that, frankly, feel free to enlighten me!). This is just common sense (headshot counter only on weapons that can headshot, kill counters only on weapons that can kill, etc). Just thought that this was the kind of info I'd look for in the wiki, so thought I'd give is a start. --[[User:Itsacon|Itsacon]] 04:06, 23 March 2012 (PDT)
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| − | : Is this table really needed? The combinations that are obvious (e.g., Headshots + Sapper) are... just obvious. The combinations that are not, should be checked first, or at least somehow marked in the table. And btw, I also suggest to make this table a multilanguage template, as it should be up to date in all language pages. — [[File:Login_Soldier.png|link=User:Stormbird]][[User:Stormbird|<span style="color:#5B885B;font-size:13px;font-family:'Arial';font-weight: bold;">Stormbird</span>]] <span style="font-size:10px"><sup>[[User talk:Stormbird|<span style="color:white; background:#5B885B;padding:0 2px;">talk</span>]]</sup></span> 04:09, 23 March 2012 (PDT)
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| − | :: It might be common sense, but as far as I understood it, some weapons were oddly tagged/untagged with certain counters that didn't make sense. Also there are a lot of common sense tidbits of info already present on the wiki, still getting people asking what can be used with what. Also [http://git.optf2.com/schema-tracking/commit/?h=teamfortress2] you'd be looking at "tags" for each weapon in the early sections of that page. As far as I understand it the tags are above the weapon. There are a few blanket tages, like I assume can deal damage allows airborne, heavies and buildings. Not all the headshotting sniper rifles have the headshot tag yet. But haven't trawled through it all to 100% make sure yet. - [[User:Devozade|Devozade]]
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| − | ::: Ok thanks, I went through the schemas a bit, and it's much clearer now. Looks like four attributes were added: `can_deal_damage', `can_headshot', `can_reflect_projectiles' and `can_deal_gib_damage'. The Strange Parts check on one of those. However, it looks like some things are not set, and some `impossible' combinations are possible. Examples:
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| − | :::* Not every sniper rifle is set yet for headshots (Currently only the Huntsman, Ambassador and Machina)
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| − | ::::* So headshots with reflections can't be counted.
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| − | :::* Heavy, building and airborne kills all use `can_deal_damage', so to answer my own questions:
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| − | ::::* The Mantreads `can_deal_damage', so can count airborne kills, even though I doubt this is technically possible in the game.
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| − | ::::* The Sapper can't, so can't count destroyed buildings twice.
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| − | :::* None of the festive weapons currently have the flags, so none of the Parts can be used on them
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| − | :::Also interesting: the only weapons currently able to gib are the rocket, grenade and sticky launchers, the Ullapool Caber and the Apoco-Fists (even though the latter is not yet available as strange)
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| − | :::I've updated the list with these changes. --[[User:Itsacon|Itsacon]] 05:06, 23 March 2012 (PDT)
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| − | ::::Just one more note, festive stranges take the attributes from the base items, because I can apply my airborne kills part to all my festive stranges except the medigun, as you would expect. Don't think they have specific entires for the festives. - [[User:Devozade|Devozade]] 06:06, 23 March 2012 (PDT)
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| − | ::::: Thanks for the info. I've updated the table. --[[User:Itsacon|Itsacon]] 06:29, 23 March 2012 (PDT)
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| − | Added a table like paint cans for these because I feel like a lot more will be on the way soon, just wondering if the part table should be made shorter and/or combinted with the usage restrictions table. - [[User:Devozade|Devozade]] 07:01, 23 March 2012 (PDT)
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| − | : I think combining the two tables into something like the tables on the [[Tools]] page would be best. Icon + name first, usage permissions/restrictions second and then availability. --[[User:Itsacon|Itsacon]] 07:36, 23 March 2012 (PDT)
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| − | : Don't really think it would ever become available for purchase or drop. Everything strange-related seems to be related to crates only. — [[File:Login_Soldier.png|link=User:Stormbird]][[User:Stormbird|<span style="color:#5B885B;font-size:13px;font-family:'Arial';font-weight: bold;">Stormbird</span>]] <span style="font-size:10px"><sup>[[User talk:Stormbird|<span style="color:white; background:#5B885B;padding:0 2px;">talk</span>]]</sup></span> 07:50, 23 March 2012 (PDT)
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| − | :: Possibly, but you still need a way on the page to show which crates each specific part is in. - [[User:Devozade|Devozade]] 07:58, 23 March 2012 (PDT)
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| − | == Bugs ==
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| − | Has anyone tested if it is true that the Headshot counter can't be applied to a Sniper Rifle or Bazaar Bargain? If it's true, should we add a `bugs' section to this page? --[[User:Itsacon|Itsacon]] 08:17, 23 March 2012 (PDT)
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| − | == Reflect counter ==
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| − | I added this to my degreaser
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| − | '''Counts:'''
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| − | *rockets
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| − | *flares
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| − | *cow mangler shot
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| − | *balls
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| − | '''Does not count:'''
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| − | *stickybombs
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| − | *grenades
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| − | *jars
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| − | *sentry gun rockets
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| − | [[User:Alioramus|Alioramus]] 22:24, 23 March 2012 (PDT)
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| − | ::This kind of info is good, should probably add an extra info column in the table for this data or add a notes section to the page, like with the strange page. - [[User:Devozade|Devozade]]
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| − | :::Does anyone else think adding a page per strange part is a good idea? Given that we're likley to see more and each will have unique mechanics?[[User:Alioramus|Alioramus]] 17:12, 23 March 2012 (PDT)
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| − | ::::Definitely. It's a good idea to get this kind of thing sorted out now, before everything's cluttered together on one page. '''» [[User:Cooper Kid|<span style="color:red">Coo</span><span style ="color:gray">per</span><span style ="color:blue"> Kid</span>]]''' <small>([[User_talk:Cooper Kid|blether]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Cooper Kid|contreebs]])</small> 17:14, 23 March 2012 (PDT)
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| − | :::::Not unless we start to get complex counters, otherwise it's just all watered down information which would be much better in one strong article covering it all. - [[User:Devozade|Devozade]] 17:16, 23 March 2012 (PDT)
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| − | :::::Well, we should probably break this article down into sections, or improve the table. I'm think another column with "will add to counter" or something like that? [[User:Alioramus|Alioramus]] 17:19, 23 March 2012 (PDT)
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| − | ::Scrutanized my results, I think it's only projectiles that have already bounced that don't count. I think we can assume all projectiles that can be reflected will count. [[User:Alioramus|Alioramus]] 18:51, 23 March 2012 (PDT)
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| − | ::More testing! ''Jarate, stock grenades, and sticky bombs'' do '''not''' increase the counter. Cow mangler shots, wrap assassain and huntsman arrows all do. [[User:Alioramus|Alioramus]] 21:44, 23 March 2012 (PDT)
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| − | :::Neither do any other stickies. [[User:Alioramus|Alioramus]] 21:49, 23 March 2012 (PDT)
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| − | :::Mad Milk, neither. I was also able to verify that reflected reflected flares count, so I'm assuming all others do. [[User:Alioramus|Alioramus]] 22:13, 23 March 2012 (PDT)
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| − | :::And neither do Sentry gun rockets, suprisingly. [[User:Alioramus|Alioramus]] 22:23, 23 March 2012 (PDT)
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| − | == Buildings Destroyed ==
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| − | The table says that Sappers don't count Buildings destroyed. Why is that? Is it a bug, or has anyone confirmed this? [[User:GianAwesome|GianAwesome]] 17:48, 23 March 2012 (PDT)
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| − | : It seems like they would count, the game treats them like buildings for achievements. Where did we find that they don't? [[User:Balladofwindfishes|Balladofwindfishes]] 17:49, 23 March 2012 (PDT)
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| − | ::It says that the Strange Part that counts Buildings Destroyed can't be added to it, which is because it already counts Buildings Destroyed. It would be the same as if they added an Assist Part which wouldn't be attachable to a Medi Gun. [[User:Blazios|Blazios]] 18:15, 23 March 2012 (PDT)
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| − | :::Sappers are simply not tagged as items that <code>can_deal_damage</code>. If it was, you would also be able to put on the Heavies Killed part as well as the other two generic kill-related ones as it stands now. On a very related note: since Sappers are sort of building themselves, I wonder if a Wrench with the Buildings Destroyed part would count destroying Sappers. — [[User:C2Talon|C2Talon]] (<i>[[Special:Contributions/C2Talon|c]]</i>/<i>[[User_talk:C2Talon|t]]</i>) 18:39, 23 March 2012 (PDT)
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| − | :::: Oh, I read this backwards, I thought it was if sappers count towards the building destroyed counter, if it's used on a weapon that can destroy sappers (Engy melee or Homewrecker). [[User:Balladofwindfishes|Balladofwindfishes]] 18:42, 23 March 2012 (PDT)
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| − | ::: Now that you mention it, it makes sense. Why have 2 counters for the same thing? Problem solved then, thanks everyone ^^ [[User:GianAwesome|GianAwesome]] 19:42, 23 March 2012 (PDT)
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| − | == Naming convention ==
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| − | So we have a page named "Strange Parts" that contains a section called "Parts" that has a table with a column named "Strange Parts" that showcase "Strange Parts". Methinks it's a little redundant. [[User:Upgrade|Upgrade]] 02:03, 24 March 2012 (PDT)
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| − | == Parts limit... ==
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| − | Once a Strange has three strange parts, can you add one more at the loss of another? Or can you/do you have to get rid of all three?
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| − | I haven't checked if it gives you the option to "restore" weapons with strange parts.
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| − | [[User:TinyPenguininja|TinyPenguininja]] 14:43, 24 March 2012 (PDT)
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| − | == Level ==
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| − | The wiki shows this as Level 1 - 100 but the strange part does not have a level assigned! Can someone confirm / change this on the wiki? <small>— ''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' '''[[User:Jamesingham|Jamesingham]]''' ([[User talk:Jamesingham|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Jamesingham|contribs]]) 18:12, 25 March 2012</small>
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| − | == Sappers As Buildings? ==
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| − | If you add destroyed buildings part to a wrench or the homewrecker, does the building tracker increase when destroying a sapper? Given that for achievements they're treated similarly, it seems like this would be the case. [[User:Balladofwindfishes|Balladofwindfishes]] 11:16, 25 March 2012 (PDT)
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| − | :I can buy a strange wrench and test it. For science. Should I? {{user:r4wrz0rz0r/sig/actual}} 11:48, 25 March 2012 (PDT)
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| − | ::Well we won't for the homewrecker until they come out with a strange variant, plus I'd be suprised if that wasn't the default tracker on it by which it levels up. As for the wrench, may as well try since the game code has never treated sappers as much different than buildings before. --'''[[User:Piemanmoo|Piemanmoo]]''' 12:34, 25 March 2012 (PDT)
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| − | ::: Whoa, I was positive there was a strange homewrecker... :o [[User:Balladofwindfishes|Balladofwindfishes]] 15:39, 25 March 2012 (PDT)
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| − | :::: Nope, there isn't a strange homewrecker right now. /me is crossing his fingers for one soon [[User:Calq|Calq]] 15:48, 25 March 2012 (PDT)
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