Talk:Pyro/Archive 1

The following discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Airblast's basic tips

I know the basic tips section is off-limit, but I think it'd be appropriate adding the new airblast related tips. After all it's a vanilla feature.--Kid Of The Century 10:26, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

It's not "vanilla", as it was added after the Pyro Update. Danton 06:03, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

It depends more on what you mean by "vanilla": to me (and reasonably) they're all the features you have right off the bat. Compression Blast, upgradable dispensers/teleporters, cloak recharging through metal and building hauling are all abilities you have at your disposition the very moment you start the game for the first time, and therefore they should be in the basic tip section. I concur it should be noted they're available on the PC version of the game only (even if to me it seems the Wiki is almost entirely PC-oriented).--Kid Of The Century 13:23, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

 Support The definition of "vanilla" in regards to software is "as delivered" - including "[upgraded] with official patches" (Just putting this here generally to avoid confusion). Dictionary aside, I don't see why a few airblast tips can't be under "Basic Strategy". -RJackson 13:37, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

I agree, the airblast is more a patch to fix an existing weapon, not an entirely new weapon Layzergun 23:43, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Pyro

You may want to put this 'suspicous' woman with a bag that looks like the pyro's locker bag, even with the flower, on the sacrifice comic from L4D.http://www.l4d.com/comic/comic.php?page=26 CANPoo 02:24, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

Nice, I never saw that... maybe it travelled dimensions with Bill's hat! Wesson07 20:24, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

If you ask me, it looks more like a box, not a bag. But the flower could mean something.Jarhead 03:37, 5 December 2010 (UTC)Jarhead

Pyro's trivia

"The Pyro is the only class in the game that possesses weapons in each slot that can individually guarantee Critical hits under certain circumstances; the Backburner Crits enemies from behind, the Flare Gun Crits ignited targets at long range, and the Axtinguisher Crits ignited targets."

This is debatable. The spy has the ambassador and the knife, and the sapper isn't a weapon per se. Should this be changed? - Mistah Phoenix 18:33, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

I erased a Trivia fact that said that on the Xbox360 Version of Team Fortress 2, The Pyro is completely fire-retardant. This is incorrect, I play the Xbox360 version. He is not completely fire-retardant.

Ah, I just reverted your edit. I'll remove it again; thanks for participating, and don't forget to sign your talk page-edits with ~~~~! ~ lhavelund ^{(t ▪ c)} 22:42, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

He/She

Can we just shorten this to "it"? We don't even know if its a blasted human or not!--Vaught 12:47, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Say "the Pyro" instead of he, she or it. -- Pilk _(talk) 12:50, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Hrm. Sounds good to me. I'll give the page a good poking at with this. --Vaught 12:52, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

maybe Pyro's a robot! :D Wesson07 10:40, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

He/she is more human an personable, plus using "it" has negative connotations. DJNerd 13:53, 4 July 2011 (PDT)

i think "it" should be a girl because there are none in the game and plus the pyro has hats that are normally only for women--Sharonmagoole 23:09, 13 September 2011 (PDT)

that's nice but unfortunately it doesn't really make a difference what anyone thinks - Valve meant the Pyro's gender to be ambiguous. » Cooper Kid (blether·contreebs) 05:04, 14 September 2011 (PDT)

"Meet the Pyro" Fan Video

Not sure if anyone else has seen this, but il guess il be the (first?) one to say this, theres this video of Meet The Pyro made by two fans of the pyro seen here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ww-jfygVEE0

Gamecrazy009 17:32, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Ah yes the meet the pyro video... maybe we should create a pyro fan video page. - Meter1060 18:30, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

Trivia still correct?

"There is a small issue in the Pyro's BLU team icon, where the Pyro holds a Red Team Flamethrower instead of the BLU Team Flamethrower. This can be seen in the class menu in-game while on BLU team."

Is this still the case? I couldn't verify it.

"There is a small issue in the Pyro's icon used in the HUD, where the BLU Pyro's icon resembles the Beta Pyro, while the RED Pyro retains the final version of the Pyro."

The difference was the tank on the back right? The color of the tank is yellow. So I assume the black tank is the beta version. But I just checked and the RED Pyro had the black tank while the BLU Pyro had the yellow one. Doesn't that mean that the RED Pyro is using the beta model?

Gamer 7601 16:46, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

what?

A friend of mine says pyro was found in a mariachi band in Mexico at a gas station. Any confirmation.

dwy1996 23:12, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure that's just something fans have made up. The Pyro's nationality is unknown. Yaridovich23 09:34, 19 July 2011 (PDT)

Knowing Valve's approach, Pyro would be made up of as many vague stereotypes as possible. This sounds like as good a start as any, although I'd say myself that she's the red-headed daughter of a Caucasian tourist and a Mexican prostitute, and was found in El Paso-Juarez, tucked in a handbag soaked in gasoline. She was born in a gas station, and she'll die in a gas station. Harley Quinn hyenaholic (talk) 07:24, 20 September 2016 (PDT)

Small question

Opinion, which looks better?

Weapon	Weapon Name	Kill Icon	Ammo Loaded	Ammo Carried	Damage Range	Notes / Special Abilities
Stock	Flamethrower		Fire: 200 Air blasts: 10 (same reserve)	N/A	Base (Max): 139.4 / sec. Crit (Max): 418.2 / sec. Afterburn: 6 / sec. × 10 secs.1	Secondary fire blasts compressed air which knocks back enemies, redirects enemy projectiles, and extinguishes flames on teammates, using 20 ammo per blast. All reflected rockets/grenades/arrows will inflict Mini-Crit damage.

Or

Primary

Weapon	Kill Icon	Ammo Loaded	Ammo Carried	Damage Range	Notes / Special Abilities
Stock Flamethrower		Fire: 200 Air blasts: 10 (same reserve)	N/A	Base (Max): 139.4 / sec. Crit (Max): 418.2 / sec. Afterburn: 6 / sec. × 10 secs.1	Secondary fire blasts compressed air which knocks back enemies, redirects enemy projectiles, and extinguishes flames on teammates, using 20 ammo per blast. All reflected rockets/grenades/arrows will inflict Mini-Crit damage.

It just doesn't feel right to have the weapon icon in an unlabeled section and the rest having a label. The first creates Weapon Name column. The other merges the two, creating a bit more room. I wanted your say. :s --Vaught 21:27, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

I'd say choice 2, but I don't have a really good reason. I guess I just like it a bit more compact Natemckn 21:29, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

Need more feedback! --Vaught 02:33, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

I love the second version! You shouldn't talk this here though, maybe the Weapons page or even the Wiki page, as it affects all weapons and class pages. — Neo_Player ^{(t ▪ c)} 03:45, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

I really like choice 2. Why have the name of the weapon have its own little section, when it can be under the picture of the weapon saving much needed room. Choice 2 makes more sense. I also agree with Neo_Player, this isn't a small question, it's a very, very BIG one, this should be done with every weapon.Jarhead 03:53, 5 December 2010 (UTC)Jarhead

I prefer the second one for pretty much every reason everybody else has already stated. ^Scatman _John (Talk | Contrib) 22:41, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

I do prefer choice 2, too. — Wind 22:42, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

I prefer the second one too, but would rather the weapon name was under the availability. —Moussekateer·talk 22:43, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

Thought it was like that originally. Changed it properly! --Vaught 05:26, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Perfect. 2nd one all the way ;p —Moussekateer·talk 05:28, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

I really think that the second one should be implemented it saves space and gets rid of an unnecessary column Lexicon249 05:30, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Guys please refer to this discussion here for more exposure. — Neo_Player ^{(t ▪ c)} 12:28, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Damage numbers?

Should we round these since it's not possible to do a fraction of a damage point? --Vaught 02:33, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

Makes sense to me, my only concern is if after several hits it does add the extra decimal on. In other words, if it ends in .4/second. after 3 seconds it goes up to 1.2 and the game adds it back in. Although, the difference would be negligible overall, and would likely go unnoticed. K-Mac (Talk | Contrib) 07:48, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

You forgot your sig! And what I've found out is that decimals are rounded down, so if something does 3.7 or 4.9, it does 3 or 4 damage, never up. Very strange, but thats the math for ya. Any other feedback on this? I don't want people to think there's a hidden decimal damage system when damage is solid numbers. --Vaught 20:49, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Killing Floor Twisted Christmas

For those who don't know, Killing Floor is going to do a collab Christmas event with TF2 (or rather, happen to be giving out TF2 stuff), with Mr. Foster's mask being a new item for Pyro. Any thoughts? I personally hope it's a misc. item, I think the Whiskered Gentleman would have some clipping issues. Sage J. Fox 01:47, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Meh, they mentioned separately so i think Tie would be misc. item and Mask - hat. Demo glasses having clipping issues too, but Valve added them anyways.TIS 02:26, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

But they also said "This item is..." so I assume they're together. It'd also make more sense to be a misc. since I'd rather be able to wear one of the thirty-one Pyro hats with the mask instead of just one of the thirteen misc, most of which are almost-identical badges. Sage J. Fox 23:17, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Dammit Valve and or Tripwire. ;D Sage J. Fox 05:23, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

The pictures of the killing floor pyro and the mask seem to be dropped in randomly. I don't see their significance, especially the pic of the mask seeing as that has its own separate page. Lacysophia 18:29, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

I agree, removed that screenshot of the hat. As for the KF screenshot, I do think that's relevant because it is interesting to note how the Pyro looks like in another game. —Moussekateer·talk 18:34, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Added Note

Degreaser is still using the Flamethrower's kill icon against players, with its real icon showing up against buildings. I made a note of this under it in the primary section. Henry Spencer 21:23, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Pyro Fuel Trivia Source

Our current trivia states that the tank the Pryo carries is for oxygen, as the propane tank is the fuel for the flamethrower... Is there some factual source that we gleaned this from, because when looking at it from a logical standpoint, propane does name make for a good flamethrower, nor does it need additional oxygen. It seems more logical that the propane fuels the pilot light on the flamethrower, and the pack the Pyro is carrying carries some form of napalm-like fuel as ammo. Anyone have some credible source to back up the current trivia? CptObvious 08:34, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

I'm pretty sture it's to do with the propane grill-style tank that's attached to the Flamethrower. But I dunno for certain. NihonTiger 08:37, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Please use fewer pronouns, expanded sentences, and more words. I have no clue wtf you are talking about, because it doesn't even address what I've asked. CptObvious 08:07, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

Allow me to attempt to shine some light on this, or at least what im getting. The current trivia states "The pressure tank on the Pyro's back contains oxygen rather than fuel, as the fuel for the Flamethrower is contained in a large propane gas tank inside the Flamethrower itself." Captain Obvious here either is confused on what this is saying, asking for a source of this statement, or trying to come up with a different way to state this to make more sense. -= M-NINJA =- 20:36, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

I don't think the tank on the Pyro's back does contain breathable oxygen, because on fireman's tanks the valves and guages are on the bottom of the tank. The guage and valve on Pyro's tank are on the top, leading me to think that it is fuel, and not his/her air supply. Plus from a logical stand point, the Pyro is clearly wearing a filtered gas mask, the kind that filter the air around the wearer, not a rebrether with tubes that lead to the tank which supplies the wearer with breathable air. DJNerd 13:51, 4 July 2011 (PDT)

Weapon Switch Times

Considering the Pyro has the only weapon able to modify weapon-switching times, the degreaser, shouldn't we include "weapon-prime, weapon-select" times for all weapons? Show the difference 60% makes? ZeyGoggles 20:24, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

That information can go on the weapon's specific page. -= M-NINJA =- 20:28, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

Hamburger Source Change

The current source for the "Pyro's Hamburgers" trivia just leads to the l4dwiki. I say we change it to an image of "Pyro's Hamburgers". I did find one image but im sure we can get a better version...maybe with some AA? -= M-NINJA =- 20:46, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

The Pyro's Electric "Axe" Guitar

I don't really know where to ask this so I'll just put it on the Pyro's talk page. The question i want to ask is when the pyro does his/her Axe taunt what cords is he/she doing because you can make out the left hand fingers doing notes?...i suppose on that "note" then, do you think this would be from the pyro's lifestyle from perhaps being in a band? You don't have to answer the second question, i'm more of wondering what the notes the pyro plays are...--Awesome Weegee 21:04, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

Well, his vocals and his hand position aren't correlated, from what I can tell. The vocals bend in the vicinity of an E, I think, but his hand position is a mix of thumb-over style playing and a bar chord... it's really not anything I recognize. They may have just randomly placed the hand/fingers on the model to simulate some sort of chord being played, without a specific one in mind. I think trying to link this to him being in a band or his lifestyle is just you trying to project some sort of currently non-existent lore on tf2... it'd all be speculation at best. The pyro's persona gives him reason to play the 'air guitar' on his axe just on a standalone basis... doesn't need any back-story. -- CptObvious 21:32, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

He's that much of an enigma already. Any backstory would simply ruin the mystery. —烏Γ ^{(kaw at me)}, 22:27, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

Indeed, I can't speak for the chords, but everyone in the world air guitars. So that part means nothing. -- Benjamuffin (talk | contribs) 11:35, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

I zoomed in on the Pyro's left hand, and I agree, Pyro's fingers don't move with the "notes" he/she plays, I think he/she is just air guitaring with his/her melee weapon. If he/she is playing actual notes, I don't recognise the fingerings. As for the notes, the first "note" sounds to me like it is about a G, and the second is an E that ties into a G. DJNerd 13:37, 4 July 2011 (PDT)

Pyro's Vader Helmet

Right after the initial Mann-conomy update, I was browsing through the item files in the SDK modelviewer, and found both a Chef's hat and a Darth Vader helmet in the pyro's item folder. Ever since the next update, both files are gone.

Can anyone else back me up on this, and if so, were these items supposed to be event items for Force Unleashed that never came to fruition or am I missing something? Mariner1712 18:59, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

Pyros face

On page 2 of Meet the Director, the BLU pyros face is visible. File:Pyro face.PNG--Adam.GameDev 17:36, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

I said it on the other discussion page, but I'm pretty sure that's the Heavy. Just a Gigolo - (talk) 17:37, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

Well, it looks like he's holding a flame thrower. --Adam.GameDev 17:38, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

That's clearly the minigun. It even has the shooting affect from Meet The Heavy. Just a Gigolo - (talk) 17:39, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

Well, I haven't seen Meet the Heavy, and it does look like he's airblasting.--Adam.GameDev 17:41, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

Go watch Meet The Heavy (and any other "Meet The" you haven't seen), and pay attention to the barrel flare when he's shooting at the end. Just a Gigolo - (talk) 17:43, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

It's the artistic style, check the other weapons being fired in the comic. —Moussekateer·talk 17:44, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

I'm with Just a Gigolo, I think that is Heavy with a Minigun. DJNerd 13:24, 4 July 2011 (PDT)

Pyro Identity?

This is all speculation, but I believe I have found yet another possibility to the identity of the Pyro... Well, at least the BLU Pyro. Using information gathered from this wiki, I will now expose my beliefs on the Pyro's identity.

(DISCLAIMER: This is all speculation and has not been proven true.)

First, we need to go back to the original BLU Team. Heres a sentence from the paragraph on the article for Non-Player Characters.

"Prior to his appointment as President of the United States, the Pyro, Abraham Lincoln, used an experimental Flamethrower to aid his comrades in battle.

When we look at other parts of that paragraph, we see that all other members of the original Blu Team were based on/inspired/resembled other historical figures, while the Pyro description identifies him as being the only clearly identified historical figure, while the rest of the team could just be doppelgangers.

Lets go even deeper, to the NPC paragraph specifically about Abraham Lincoln. Ill cut out anything not relating to my point

"In addition to being the nation's 16th president, Abraham Lincoln was also the BLU team's first Pyro when the war began in the 1800's. The Engineer Update states Abraham Lincoln was assassinated by John "Tower of Hats" Booth, although the WAR! Update attributes his death to rocket-jumping up stairs. Furthermore, according to the Loose Canon comic, there were blueprints for three "life-extender machines," the last one apparently built on the day of Lincoln's death. Whether or not Abraham is still alive is open to debate."

Well, it is a bit odd how there are two explanations for Lincolns death, now isn't it? Almost as if they were created as cover-ups for the true story. We also need to look at this bit of info from the Radigan Conagher paragraph.

"Radigan Conagher also seemed to have been obsessed with Abraham Lincoln. In the first edition of The Engineer Update, several pages of notes can be seen that are totally dedicated to inventing an object that could have saved Lincoln from John Wilkes Booth. Some devices include: a hat that would shoot at the attacker, a chair that would swing over and under a balcony away from the attacker, and a teleporter."

My theory? Radigan did manage to save Abraham's life using a life-extender, and the stories of the stairs and Booth were cover-ups for the truth, that Abraham Lincoln is the current BLU Pyro. You would probably have a series of questions about this. "How is it possible for him to fight, jump, and run so well if he's as old as Redmond and Blutarch?" "How come Lincoln isn't "dead" during periods of the day like Redmond/Blutarch?" "What about the Red Pyro?" Ill explain these three.

1: How is it possible for him to fight, jump, and run so well if he's as old as Redmond and Blutarch?

I don't think that Redmond and Blutarch would've been as strong or healthy as Lincoln, so Lincoln might've had a better physique. However, my belief is that another engineer/technician upgraded the life-extender into a suit that would offer increased mobility so Lincoln could resume his duty as BLU Pyro. However, they're might've been certain requirements for the suit, such as an air-filtration system, (gas-mask) a fire-proof, full-body suit to protect the frail, old body from lighting aflame, and emergency oxygen reserve tanks. These seem to fit the bill of the Pyro.

2: How come Lincoln isn't "dead" during periods of the day like Redmond/Blutarch?

Once again, My answer is that another engineer/technician may have upgraded the life-extender for Lincoln, perhaps removing the "dead" factor. Now, as it was said during Loose Canon, Blutarch had been trying to decipher the notes for sixty years, so theoretically, he would've sorted through the best. So who fixed Lincoln's life-extender? Blutarch. Once the engineer had managed to fix Blutarch's machine, what if he managed to track down Lincoln and either A: The Blu Engineer fixed the life-extender even further so Lincoln could resume his duties as Pyro, or B: Other engineers/technicians were able to upgrade the suit once they had the basic repaired life-extender.

3: What about the Red Pyro?

Once again, we have to go back to the Original BLU Team. Don't you find it a bit odd that both Redmond and Blutarch had the exact same idea to make teams of exactly nine mercenaries, presumably the exact same classes as each other? I do, and I have a theory. Since Blutarch said that he founded his team of nine mercenaries and that his brother "Did the exact same thing." What if Redmond simply copied Blutarch's idea. Redmond copied The BLU Team's appearance and weapons with extreme detail so that the teams would be evenly matched. But since there weren't two Abraham Lincolns, Redmond would've had to use a doppelganger. Thus, nothing on the RED team would be original, and every time The BLU Team made a change in appearance or weaponary, so would Red. Up until this very day, when the Red Pyro looks exactly like the Blu Pyro.

Thats my story, and I'm sticking to it. Please tell me if you see any holes or flaws in my theory, or ask any questions you might have.

~~ThePyroTruth~~

Soooo... this isn't anything that we would put on the page. The amount of work you put into this is astounding, yet it unfortunately does not have any relevance to the Wiki. This would better be suited to a forum -- Firestorm 12:05, 5 July 2011 (PDT)

Sorry about that... I just thought this might be the place where I could get the most publicity. On any forum you might go to, there could be a million different subjects on the Pyro's identity, and mine would most likely be brushed aside. Could I put this on my user page? (Sorry, kind of new to the whole "wiki" thing...)

~~ThePyroTruth~~

You can. Also, sign your posts with 4 tildes (~~~~) rather than your name.  –  Epic Eric (T | C) 15:37, 5 July 2011 (PDT)

The sheer amount of effort you put into this is mind-blowing. While I doubt this will ever go on the wiki as it is pure speculation, I tip my hat to you sir. Ryftt 06:37, 14 August 2011 (PDT)

Domination quotes

The domination quotes of other classes calling the Pyro a woman prove nothing. As classes other than the Pyro are also called women and other female derogatories. Examples:

• The Medic's line "Did ze Fräuleins have zeir Mittelschmerz?"
• The Demoman sometimes exclaims "Oh, you're a wee little miss, you are!" when dominating a Scout.
• He also sometimes says, "See! I told ya they were a bunch o' wee lasses!" as a general domination line.
• When dominating a Sniper, the Soldier has the line "This is not a camping trip Sheila, this is war, and I love it!"
• When getting revenge as Engineer, he might exclaim, "You ladies shoulda' oughta' brought some menfolk with ya."

I'm sure I'm missing some, but you get the idea I'm sure. Does this constitute the part about other classes domination phrases calling the Pyro a woman be removed. Or does the fact that the Pyro is the only class who's gender is in doubt out-weigh this fact? DJNerd 10:08, 10 July 2011 (PDT)

Backburner Crits

Does the Backburner still not get random crits? If so this should be added to its attributes. » Cooper Kid (blether) • (contreebs) 11:57, 26 September 2011 (PDT)

You are right, lol, it never had random crits and haven't them today [RUS] ANGEL_UNDEAD 12:56, 26 September 2011 (PDT)

-!That Pyro is a Mexican Girl!

I was reading the new halloween update, and i was surprised that the Pyro had many mexican-related stuff, i though it was just coincidence, but i saw this 3 TIMES... and she had name of a girl 3 TIMES... if she's not a mexican or a girl, im Santa Claus... or a girl...

Some proof...

Proof N°1

Proof N°2

Mexican Much?

So, is this a joke?

Thank you -- Ventormentor 15:55, 25 October 2011 (PDT)

The talk page is for discussing the page itself, not the topic the page is about. Please take comments such as this to the forums. 15:58, 25 October 2011 (PDT)

Im sorry, there were no advice and i though this was the place to discuss this kind of stuff, thanks for the info, and sorry :( -- Ventormentor 16:01, 25 October 2011 (PDT)

As I checked, this "update" isn't one produced by Valve, therefore, it is invalid. The description of the items are user made, and should not be taken as real evidence. SkyHippo 11:51, 25 June 2012 (PDT)

It may be one of the most popular Fanons, but it's not Valve's official take just yet.Harley Quinn hyenaholic (talk) 07:27, 20 September 2016 (PDT)

/* Pyromania /*

Anyone notice that Meet the Pyro Is coming out when the clock on Pyromania Update runs out? -- SkyHippo 11:56, 25 June 2012 (PDT)

That's the point of it. 11:57, 25 June 2012 (PDT)

Valve sure is sneaky with all this mystery. SkyHippo 17:40, 25 June 2012 (PDT)

Sure is very mysterious this telling us they're going to do something and putting a timer saying when they'll do it...? The Grand Karkasmolen 00:17, 26 June 2012 (PDT)

My Contribution

I was going to put this bit of information that I gathered from psychology class into the portion of the page dedicated to Meet the Pyro video but the page was locked.

"As shown in Meet The Pyro, he appears to be suffering from severe case of Psychosis in which he believes that he is nourishing infant versions of the opposing team with candy and flowers when he is actually brutally murdering them. From what can be seen from the level of severity of his Psychosis, he appears to be completely detached from reality. " Radical Edward2 13:45, 27 June 2012 (PDT)

Pyro Trivia

With the Pyromania unlocks, the Pyro now has the most taunts capable of killing of all the classes (the Rainblower taunt, the Scorch Shot taunt and the shotgun/flare gun/detonator/reserve shooter Hadouken). He/she/it is also tied with the Medic for the most effect taunts. Would this be worth adding to trivia? Enigma179 13:24, 13 July 2012 (PDT)

Unfortunately that's X of Y trivia - see here. » Cooper Kid (blether) • (contreebs) 13:46, 13 July 2012 (PDT)

As Cooper Kid mentioned, it's not trivia. The style guide he posted will definitely clear up why it does not constitute trivia. I definitely commend you for asking before placing it on the page though. Something a lot more people should do! :P 13:50, 13 July 2012 (PDT)

Pyro's Gas Tank Trivia

• Despite common belief, the tanks located on the Pyro's back are for oxygen while the gas tank is fused to the immediate Flamethrower.

This one's been bothering me for a while... where is there any official source saying this? If there isn't, why has it been just assumed and stuffed into the trivia? And why was that assumption made? What makes people think the tank is filled with oxygen? It's not connected to the mask, which is a fairly standard filter-based gas mask. Why not assume it actually connects to the flamethrower and the little propane tank fuels the pilot light, while the hoses were just a modelling error? Why not assume that it's actually there to conceal the pyro's massive hunch back because shooting the tank will hurt the pyro? Why assume anything at all if we have no true and official evidence towards any of these theories at all? Enigma179 08:20, 15 July 2012 (PDT)

For that matter, many real flamethrowers use a small tank attached to the firearm to store gas for the burner (the small flame which lights the main jet when the weapon is fired) and a larger tank mounted on the back of the user to provide the primary fuel. That's just as likely to be the setup here. Either way, as there is no official source for this information, the purpose of the tank is ambiguous at most. » Cooper Kid (blether) • (contreebs) 12:38, 15 July 2012 (PDT)

So does that mean someone should delete that particular bit of trivia? Enigma179 07:00, 16 July 2012 (PDT)

I think we can confirm that, based on the description of the Moonman Backpack, that the pyro's tank is in fact used for oxygen, although there is competing information that I'll bring up later in the page... Kickasss119 21:32, 5 September 2012 (PDT)

Homemade Flamethrower?

Where does it say that the Pyro's flamethrower is homemade? (The Pyro specializes in fighting enemies at close range using a homemade Flame Thrower.) SlowScout 17:20, 23 August 2012 (PDT)

It doesn't have to: you can look at it and see that it is. The canister is a standard propane tank and the handle is a gas station pump handle. ==Fax Celestis _talkcontrib^home 20:38, 23 August 2012 (PDT)

The end of it is also an exhaust pipe.Msmeal18 (talk) 05:14, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

Pyro's "Oxygen Tank"

I just noticed this and haven't been able to find any info on it in the wiki, but... Has anyone noticed that in the loadout screen (i.e. Items/Loadout) when highlighting the classes, the pyro has a very visible hose connecting his "oxygen tank" to his flame thrower? will provide pic when i figure out how to :3 Kickasss119 21:37, 5 September 2012 (PDT)

Picture -

Kickasss119 21:46, 5 September 2012 (PDT)

If you look at the other characters, they are the beta version. Which possibly means that the pyro in the backpack is most likely the beta version of pyro. The final version of pyro still has the hose, but its connected to the other part of the flame thrower. This is probably an illusion, also because the hose is not actually in-game. Weirdduder10 09:49, 6 November 2012 (PST)

Pyro's More Revealed Gender...?

Has anyone actually that scientific version of the biggest question of tf2: Is pyro a male or female? All the facts, the shoulders, the finger lengths, and all that stuff have been shown as Female or even Homosexual Male(?) Some other little easter egg valve added in the official tf2 "Meet the Pyro" Pointed as to Male/female and also just Female. The little cloud that has the Feminine Symbol points to Female. The annotations which could have or could not be made by the official TF team said by the voice actor of Scout says: "He's not here, is she?" Notice the little S added before the he. People say that scout slurred the s from IS to HE, and the YouTube annotations fucked up again. But YouTube never got most of it correct and only one letter incorrect. All of this evidence, from the unofficial video from some guy that shows Pyro may either be Female or Gay male, which some reason points STRONGLY to Homosexual Male, and also from the official MTP video which points more strongly to Female due to the one more clue rather male only has one not very evident clue. I rest my case Weirdduder10 14:39, 26 May 2013 (PDT)

Umm kay then.... If you want to post speculations, Take it to the steam forums as it does not belong here. Thanks. :3 Ashes 15:09, 26 May 2013 (PDT)

*sniffs* I smell a certain video from YouTube... -Vicyorus (talk) 18:03, 19 September 2013 (PDT)

Voice lines

Question. When was the last voice line update? Has the Pyro retained all his voice lines since (I'm guessing) the first Pyro update? — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Modulus365 (talk) • (contribs)

More mystery in the Pyro's gender

If you look at the spectralnaut hat, the skull is definitely identifiable as female. — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gl00b3rz (talk) • (contribs) 13:11, 30 October 2013

I'm no expert in determining gender from skulls, but how does it compare to the skull from the Voodoo-Cursed Pyro Soul? --PeabodySam (talk) 14:06, 7 November 2013 (PST)

Not the place to be discussing this. If you want to discuss this, Do it on the SPUF. Not here. Thanks. Ashes (talk) 14:17, 7 November 2013 (PST)

There is a problem on the pyro's Scream Fortress 2013 cosmetics

The problem is that the golden locks are labeled as the Spectralnaut. Oh, and also the Scorched Skirt is labeled as the Death Support Pack

Just wanted you guy's to know :)

This was posted by: Brosiden31 — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Brosiden31 (talk) • (contribs)

 Fixed (contribs ▪ talk) 10:51, 11 February 2014 (PST)

Weapon facts/notes

Just a small thing, maybe.. But do we really need to specify "No extra damage on burning targets." for Manmelter and Scorch Shot? The items themselves don't feature this fact in their infobox. And the weapons that DO give a bonus to burning enemies (Flare Gun and Detonator in the Secondary section) list it as a positive attribute (as they should). TheJ00 (talk) 01:56, 5 June 2014 (PDT)

We note them as they are more less a hidden attribute thats not shown ingame. Since ingame they don't list this attribute (Yes I've checked) we note and document it here so others know about it. We don't put it in the infobox as the infobox is reflected as an imitation ingame. Whatever it is ingame, we pretty much use. (assuming this answers your question) Ashes (talk) 02:14, 5 June 2014 (PDT)

The gender of the pyro

to this day the gender of the pyro has not been known some say that its a girl some say that its a boy but today im going to tell you the gender of the pyro with out using stereotypes so look at the pyros locker the pyro has a pink purse so that's what makes people think that the pyros a girl second when the other team wins the game your pyro goes into a pose were he stands arms to his hips and head slightly at a angle with 1 of his legs slightly out so more of a pose that a girl would make also what got people wondering is the in game text "why don't you give her a shot" but as I go through this I am going to uncover more about the pyro so in the meet the pyro video the scout says "he's not here is he" and in the same video lets not forget pyro land a sugar coted land with the tune do you believe in magic while the pyro skips around the land but if you look closely while the pyro is using the bubble-blower you can see in the clouds a hidden female gender sign so lets have a look at the pyro stance with a male they are taller have more hair and bigger Adams-apples compared to girls well that's all well and good it doesn't help when you look at the pyro he's fully clothed there isn't a bit of flesh on him so for this the answer lies in the pyro character design so look at his fingers so with the index finger and the ring finger can tell you if some one is a guy or a girl and this is called the digit ratio theory based on how much testosterone we have so men tend to have longer ring fingers and girls tend to have equal length fingers so when you look at the pyro when he's in the directors vision stance to look at this you need the directors vision taunt you can compare finger length notice how the index and the ring fingers are similar to contrast look at the soldiers fingers clearly his ring finger is bigger then his index finger making him a obvious man so we can conclude that the pyro Is a female or can we? its not that simple test have shone that homosexual males have similar finger length to that of a female and lesbians have similar finger length to of a straight male so what is this to the pyro it means that the pyro is rather a gay male or a straight female so now what lets check out the rest of his body first his feet women tend to have smaller feet compared to there height then men look at the pyro his feet is bigger then some and thus making him a man but we can go deeper to the gender of the pyro men tend to have longer torsos if you look at the pyro model the pyro is definitely not lacking in torsos size in fact he is a more of a male and also test have shone that women or more attracted to males that leg height is the same as the torsos height and for the pyro his legs are the size of 3 pyro heads and his body is the same so another point to the male side what else lets look at the biacromial width aka big shoulders so the pyro has shoulders that go in a slope but normally the average US male is around 5'10 inches tall and that = 1.78 meters and their shoulders tend to be i8.25 inches or 46 centimeters wide that's the shoulders to height ratio of about 0,26 and the average woman stands at 5.4 foot and a half or 1.64 meters with shoulders at 15 inches or 38 centimeters with a ratio of 0.23 with the pyro in a height chart stands at 300px tall with shoulders that are 80px wide with his shoulder to height ratio brings him to o.26 the ideal ratio to the average man so physically the pyro is a homosexual male is there anything else well lets look at what the pyro sees and what we see is a 10 year girls dream complete with candy rainbows and ponies but ponies are popular with 10 year old girls and 15-21 year old men due to my little pony so no strong evidence there however the most important parts of the meet the pyro video is the disconnect of how the pyro sees the world and what exactly is going on around him the pyro is experiencing a intense level of visual and auditory hallucination a strong indicator that he suffers from schizophrenia witch is a disease that makes it hard to see what's real and what is actually happening around you so another test has shown that schizophrenia can make you see bright and color full places can include animals and can make you see extreme emotional reaction including tremendous pleasure in other words pyro land in a nutshell so how dose this identify the sex of the pyro well as schizophrenia is common with both men and women it is most popular with gay or bi sexual males so finally the answer you all been looking for the gender of the pyro is a homosexual male if there is any questions about the topic please don't hesitate to ask thank you for reading Acemillion♠ (talk) 10:31, 7 November 2014 (PST)

So you pretty much pulled all this from the Game Theory video which is NOT an official source. It is merely speculation which the wiki does not accept. So therefore, this sort of information doesn't belong if someone tries to incorporate it on the page. The pyro's gender will only be added when valve releases it. Simple as that. Ashes (talk) 11:20, 7 November 2014 (PST)

NOTE ON LAST ARTICLE:

In the Meet the Pyro video, he does NOT say "He's not here, is he?" He, in fact, says "He's not here, is she?" Using mixed genders. To add, a video by The Game Theorists has a supported theory that the Pyro is a homosexual male. Look at the video for more info, as it is quite interesting. &@*M Stellabella62

Yes but even so, this is STILL speculation. Regardless of community input or videos, unless valve states the gender themselves, we leave it gender neutral. No male/female or anything inbetween. Ashes (talk) 16:14, 28 January 2015 (PST)

Msmeal18 (talk) 05:11, 16 December 2020 (UTC) You can literally find in the files that pyro is a male

pyro's real name?

Pyro's real name

So i was playing Dungeon of the Endless and they relaesed this new update called "Australium Update" where they added 4 new characters, one being the pyro.

What i found out is that Pyro's name was "Pat Bates", which was a little confusing. Is this oficially pyro's name? It probably is, so i would change the wiki and add the name. — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Wolfmec (talk) • (contribs)

No this is speculation. The only time a REAL NAME is given to a class is by valve themselves whether through a official video they make, a blog post or official comics. Any 3rd party games that make cameo appearances do not count as an official name. If this is added it will be removed. Ashes (talk) 04:40, 21 June 2015 (PST)

Msmeal18 (talk) 05:10, 16 December 2020 (UTC)It is most deffinetly his real name

DEBUNKING THE GAME THEORY ARGUMENT

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_t4dcJemy8 here is a link to a video one made who debunked it doesn't mean that Matt's own theory wasn't good it was just that there were some facts he missed out on SO STOP USING THAT VIDEO FOR THE ARGUMENT I've seen people who used this video to combat it Dannyflysaround (talk) 17:09, 23 December 2015 (PST)

Or how about we don't use the video and or contents in general. Its not a credible source for anything regarding the Pyro. Its all speculation. If you want official info about the Pyro, ask Valve. Simple as that. Ashes (talk) 18:05, 23 December 2015 (PST)

The purse in Game Theory Argument does not prove that pyro is gay or a girl. You can be non-gay or non-female to own a purse. Hayzze (talk) 02:36, 26 January 2016 (PST)

Out of Date

Pyro (and also Soldier) have INCONSISTENT descriptions for the Panic Attack compared to the Heavy and Engineer. Someone please do something about it. Hayzze (talk) 02:39, 26 January 2016 (PST)

Feel free to go ahead and edit. — The preceding assigned comment was added by Tark {Finish Him! ▪ Contribs} 06:44, 26 January 2016 (PST)

Done now for both Pyro and Soldier. I gave them the updated version that the Engineer and Heavy had. Hayzze (talk) 16:28, 26 January 2016 (PST)

Flamethrower range bugs (mojo)

The range of all of the Pyro's flamethrowers is inconsistent. The hitboxes skip a portion their time to live calculations in unstable network conditions, resulting in range extension. This causes unintended advantages for people with unstable connections, people who manipulate their connections intentionally and people who use ping masking techniques.
In more detail, if the server receives a false information about client latency, which can happen when the latency isn't stable, the hitbox is spawned, but the time to live logic and dynamic movement logic do not start operating until the time difference between what the server "thinks" the player's latency is and the actual latency elapses, leaving the hitbox moving at its base speed for a few frames. During that period, the hitbox's time to live counter is also unaffected, resulting in range extension.
The gameplay consequences of such a bug are unfair advantages for some players, depending on factors outside of their control and possible exploits.

Analysis of the bug by jediflamaster (me):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BFm82SFsYs
An easily digestible demonstration by Whistling Pyro(Johnny):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SXUw8F35bs
A more technical demonstration by Whistling Pyro(Johnny):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDUXMoALnu4 TMP's demonstration:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSB4ywcE528
In-depth analysis of the technical aspect of the bug by Sigsegv:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLGkxS4DNAH0zV-7cg3KSIxERy39gMpwOd

Jediflamaster (talk) 08:47, 8 July 2016 (PDT)

Jedi, we had this discussion last year remember? -- Dr. Scaphandre 10:36, 19 July 2016 (PDT)

Wasn't confirmed by Sigsegv then, was it? Why do you refuse to have the TRUTH published on the page? Jediflamaster (talk) 05:44, 20 July 2016 (PDT)

Because honestly I still don't see the "bug" as notable when the flamethrower hitboxes have always been like that. If you want to bring your case, bring it to the IRC where someone can talk to you live. -- Dr. Scaphandre 09:49, 20 July 2016 (PDT)

After the IRC discussion I added additional video demonstrations to the list above and expanded the explanation. Jediflamaster (talk) 10:57, 20 July 2016 (PDT)

So after delaying this for a bit, I've finally decided to look into this. My input: As much as there is evidence to support this, I wouldn't say it can be notable. It's similar to the lag compensation for the backstab/facestab issue that everyone states. It may have it plus sides but at the same time. Ping spiking just to get a desirable hit box detriments whoever is doing it as well.

Good evidence but not enough to convince me otherwise of this being an actual bug as it can really go two ways. Desirable hitbox trading off for horrible connection (which many do not favor). That's just my input. Ashes (talk) 19:06, 27 July 2016 (PDT)

I finished looking through it all as well. I agree Flamethrower Mojo exists, however it seems this was an intentional design choice by Valve. Maybe in the future Pyro update with the new weapons they will change this as these new videos are causing more noise against this design choice, but as it stands, it is not a bug. -- Dr. Scaphandre 17:40, 28 July 2016 (PDT)

I think it'd take someone with next to none experience with the class to say this isn't notable (there's been an open letter to valve by top pyro mains adressing this, btw: https://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/4qjnh9/top_highlander_pyromains_from_around_the_world/ ). I think it'd take a madman to say this is a desired feature born of a conscious, intentional design choice. (even if it was an intentional design choice, that doesn't mean it's not horrible, but that's beyond the point). It's like adding a rule to chess that your pawn will move anywhere from 1 to 3 squares depending on your current blood pressure. Who the hell would do that? Jediflamaster (talk) 13:44, 4 August 2016 (PDT)

I don't know, but all we know is it's not a bug. Case closed. Now please respect everyone's opinions and leave it as it is. -- Dr. Scaphandre 14:17, 4 August 2016 (PDT)

Sry to cut in here, but why don't we consider that a bug now? — shots fired by: Nikno {Talk | Contribs} 14:20, 4 August 2016 (PDT)

Go to the Flamethrower talk page. Ashes explains why. -- Dr. Scaphandre 14:25, 4 August 2016 (PDT)

Okay, so firstly, Ashes says it's a trade-off. As you can see in the videos, the "mojo" stays even when your connection is stable again. So it's an exploit with no real trade-off. Also secondly I doubt that it's comparable with the frontstab, that thing is strictly bound to lag compensation and is a "bug" that we have to accept. I'm pretty sure this flame bug is indeed related to lag compensation but is neither directly caused by it, nor is it unfixable I'd say. — shots fired by: Nikno {Talk | Contribs} 14:37, 4 August 2016 (PDT)

We discussed it in the IRC and concluded that it needs further investigation and could be listed here as a bug. I'll take a more in-depth look at it, but it seems as you're not that wrong, Jediflamaster. — shots fired by: Nikno {Talk | Contribs} 15:29, 4 August 2016 (PDT)

It's fixed, get slammed. Jediflamaster (talk) 10:01, 21 October 2017 (PDT)

lol ⇒ Anyar (talk/contributions/giveaway) 13:58, 21 October 2017 (PDT)

Theory of being mann

Pyro is wearing a helmet gas mask. Women cannot wear helmet gas mask because of hair. Mann points:1. How did the creator of this page said Pyro´s beanie,Old gualadajara isn´t femine. BTW Madame dixie is femine. So pyro´s mann points is 2. About gas mask . The gas mask is inspired by Avon S10 so how it could be helmet mask ? I will tell you : The S10 gasmask is made not by avon but by MANN.CO For that reason it is helmet mask. So the mask is only unsuccesful S10 gasmask copy. Wait on the mask is writen OPTICAL MASK . How it could be ? Like you know sniper haves lots of glass in his rifles , Sniper is Hale´s brother, Hale works in MANN.CO,MANN.CO manufactures items so the sniper can give the glass to Hale and Hale have gave it there-into the mask, but it´s only modified S10 gasmask. You and know pyro haves Phobos filter that Hale can take off the helmet of the Phobos filter and paint it black. So Pyro haves only modified S10. And women can have only non-helmet mask. So the pyro is mann.— The preceding unsigned comment was added by MatyThePyroshark (talk) • (contribs)

Obviously the TF team never wants to confirm Pyro's gender, for a good reason, and so we have no way to know it. There's been evidence for both sides so it's not an open-or-shut case.

Also, if you really want to discuss this, I'd recommend you post to Reddit or TF2's forum on Steam as the Wiki isn't the best hub for game theory and speculation. ⇒ Anyar (talk/contributions/giveaway) 13:58, 21 October 2017 (PDT)

Msmeal18 (talk) 05:08, 16 December 2020 (UTC)this post makes no sense and Sniper could not be related to hale birth nor adopted because Hale’s not a New Zealander and Sniper’s adopted parents only had him.

where can i find the weapon tables?

hello.
I wanted to add the new weapons to the weapon tables, so that all the items are displayed, but when i was looking at the edit page all i was able to see was "Class weapons table pyro primary"
So i just wanted to know where i can actually edit those tables to add the new weapons.
MrFunreal (talk) 16:18, 10 November 2017 (PST)

Because it's in the template called Template:Class weapons table pyro primary. So next time you see the double curly brackets, it's the template. 16:22, 10 November 2017 (PST)

See also w:Help:Template. Mikado282 (talk) 18:46, 10 November 2017 (PST)

Weapons Need Updating

As the page is protected I can't do it myself, but the Weapons category needs the Dragon's Fury, Gas Passer, Thermal Thruster, and Hot Hand added to its Primary/Secondary/Melee subcategories (Heavy needs the Second Banana added for his Secondary as well). SageJFox (talk) 09:47, 5 December 2017 (PST)

I ran into the same problem today when I was searching for a way to remove the sentence "Direct damage will reduce Medi Gun healing and shield resists by 25%" from the descriptions of all the various flame throwers in the table, and change it to "Afterburn will reduce Medi Gun healing and shield resists by 20%" to reflect the changes brought by Jungle Inferno update. Going to Class weapons table pyro primary didn't really help me, because that table doesn't even list the positives and and negatives of each weapons. I have no clue how to edit those. Knusperfrosch (talk) 17:17, 15 April 2018 (UTC)

Reserve Shooter Stats are Out of Date

The page mentions that players knocked into the air via airblasting allows mini-crits to be applied to them, but didn't Jungle Inferno remove that? Conjo434 (talk) 20:13, 5 April 2018 (UTC)

It did, yes. Reserve Shooter no longer mini-crits targets of an airblast, but it now mini-crits Pyros who fly using the Thermal Thruster. Knusperfrosch (talk) 17:05, 15 April 2018 (UTC)

Oops. Forgot to tag  Done, sorry.

Old Pyro Concepts

The Pyro concept art, the one from Invasion that's on this page (face included), are not of the Pyro. They are incredibly early concepts for the "Commando" class which is nothing like the Pyro and more like the Soldier. This is confirmed in the full art in the line "Commando could inhales J vapor.", which is talking about the class on the art, referring to it as the Commando. The chest area on the head art is pretty much identical to the one in the full art, but simpler due to it being just a sketched part. I'd suggest you guys remove it because right now a LOT of people think that's art of the Pyro. Cmarti (talk) 20:45, 25 September 2019 (UTC)

Pyro is at least somewhat aware of what they are doing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMoY29ESmLY Listening to 3:31 You can hear that one of their taunts are "I don't think your mama every told you to play with fire". This suggests that Pyro is aware of what they are doing, since I don't think anyone would be killed with fire in Pyroland, nor a fire would occur. --XxThatPhatGuyxX (talk) 20:03, 5 August 2020 (UTC)XxThatPhatGuyxX

Pyro’s gender

I have recently been thinking about it and if you compare the voodoo cursed soul item for the Pyro with the male and female skull Pyro has a more feminine skull design. (Sorry for picture quality)

Msmeal18 (talk) 05:04, 16 December 2020 (UTC) If you look in the tf2 files, you’ll find a mask-less pyro, who is a man in his elder years.

Pyro's gender remains unknown until Valve reveals it, which will never happen probably · Ashe (talk) 05:10, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

Flair gun?

Msmeal18 (talk) 05:21, 16 December 2020 (UTC) Would you guys consider the Manmeleter a flair gun, I would.

If you want to discuss about the Manmelter , you should create a topic in its talk page, not here.
Ashe (talk) 05:38, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

bugs that require being added

in the bugs section; it lacks a bug which if a defending Pyro tries to attack the attacking team on a Payload map during the set up time, the flame will actually cause the other team to take damage BatQuinn2000 (talk) 16:22, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

If you provide proof for this bug here, it will (probably) be added.
GrampaSwood (talk) 17:05, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

The Pyro and all the other mercs appear in Saints Row: The Third (PC) as cosmetic masks.

I'd like to inform everyone about a guest appearance that hasn't been documented yet. The TF2 mercs were all cosmetic masks in the 2011 game, Saint's Row: The Third and since I can't edit the main merc page, presumably because it's protected, I want someone to list it for me and credit it as a contribution of mine. Thanks. Mad Man (talk) 22:01, 6 July 2021 (UTC)

I would also like thanks for the change Mad Man (talk) 12:56, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

Here, I've added that fact of yours into the trivia of every merc's page. Lolimsogreat21 (talk) 20:15, 9 July 2021 (UTC)Lolimsogreat21

Thank you so much Mad Man (talk) 20:20, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

The Lolimsogreat21 to the Mad Man's thank you Lolimsogreat21 (talk) 20:44, 9 July 2021 (UTC)Lolimsogreat21

I'd say this shouldn't be on here (along with every other reference of which TF2 characters is referenced in another game) as that's for the list of references and not here. Also, asking for credit for a change is not really done on the wiki, if something is pointed out on a talk page or such it will be edited in if needed but credit is never given (Neither in the summary nor on the page. If it is given in the edit summary it's an editor's own choice).
GrampaSwood (talk) 20:31, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

The preceding discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.