Talk:Upgrade Station

Unused upgrade station music

Not 100% sure about it but it seems there's some unused music for the upgrade station in tf/sound/items/tf_music_upgrade_machine.wav Might want to add it to the page if it was intended for it. ErroR 03:40, 20 August 2012 (PDT)

Unfortunately, we don't know exactly where the sound will be used, if ever. Pity really, it's quite catchy.

Also, please add new topics to the bottom of talk pages. 03:49, 20 August 2012 (PDT)

Dang, sorry about that. Again. ErroR 08:08, 20 August 2012 (PDT)

suggestion: different organization

just a suggestion but here is how I might do the whole page it if I knew proper wiki syntax

CLASS-LESS UPGRADES

Stat	Levels	Cost/level
Health regen	2/4/6/8/10% of max hp	200
Crit resistance	25/50/75%	150

...

(exclude the metal regen one)

BASIC WEAPON UPGRADES

(divided into sections for each upgradable statistic, includes stats like damage or reload speed only)

DAMAGE

description of what upgrading this stat does, if it isn't obvious.

Levels	Cost/level
20/40/60/80%	500

INSERT BELOW a table like this, edited to include weapons this upgrade is available for

List of bullet-based hitscan weapons
Scout	Primary
		Scattergun	Force-A-Nature	Shortstop	Soda Popper	Baby Face's Blaster	Back Scatter
	Secondary
		Pistol	Lugermorph	Winger	Pretty Boy's Pocket Pistol	C.A.P.P.E.R
Soldier	Secondary
		Shotgun	Reserve Shooter	Panic Attack
Pyro	Secondary
		Shotgun	Reserve Shooter	Panic Attack
Heavy	Primary
		Minigun	Natascha	Iron Curtain	Brass Beast	Tomislav	Huo-Long Heater
	Secondary
		Shotgun	Family Business	Panic Attack
Engineer	Primary
		Shotgun	Frontier Justice	Widowmaker	Panic Attack
	Secondary
		Pistol	Lugermorph	C.A.P.P.E.R
	Building
		Sentry Gun	Combat Mini-Sentry Gun
Sniper	Primary
		Sniper Rifle	Sydney Sleeper	Bazaar Bargain	Machina	Hitman's Heatmaker	AWPer Hand	Classic	Shooting Star
	Secondary
		SMG	Cleaner's Carbine
Spy	Secondary
		Revolver	Ambassador	Big Kill	L'Etranger	Enforcer	Diamondback

In this case there are two separate damage upgrades for explosives and for scout/sniper/pyro, so there could be a second set of tables for that.

...

CLIP SIZE

description

Levels	Cost/level
+ 2/4/6/8	400

(table of explosive weapons)

Levels	Cost/level
+ 50/100/150/200%	400

(table of clip weapons)

...

CLASS/WEAPON SPECIFIC UPGRADES

Here use a similar format but for upgrades like bullet penetration, destroy projectiles, medic & engineer upgrades, etc.

sorry if this is hard to read, did my best. not sure if it's the best solution, it may be better just to say "soldier primary" or "jarate" but I felt like it would be great to know which weapons you could use which upgrades on

Stripedy 02:44, 16 August 2012 (PDT)

Melee damage upgrade on demoknights

Demoknights can upgrade melee damage as long as you have a targe equipped. Proof: http://imgur.com/UtF1h Rocketscience 00:17, 17 August 2012 (PDT)

And what about the screen?

Superprototype 11:35, 26 March 2013 (PDT)

Requested move

It seems like it would be the more logical choice a user might search for when looking for MVM upgrades.

Likewise, the guidebook specifically mentions Upgrade Stations and there is yet to be a page detailing it.

03:26, 17 August 2012 (PDT)

• MOVE I don't see anything wrong with the idea, as long as the gameplay page is changed accordingly. WhosAsking 10:30, 17 August 2012 (PDT)
•  Yes Definitely! Upgrade Station flows much more naturally, too. Darkid (|) 14:12, 18 August 2012 (PDT)

Upgrade info on each weapon page

While its nice to have this one page to find info about upgrades, perhaps in addition to this it would be nice, and more convenient, to have upgrade info for each weapon on its specific page. I know that it doesn't 100% have to do with this page, but I figure I should ask before doing something so drastic. --Andodel 06:36, 17 August 2012 (PDT)

There's some discussion over here regarding design and implementation. 13:36, 21 August 2012 (PDT)

Heavy Primary penetration levels

If I'm not mistaken, for the miniguns, there are three levels of target penetration available, not one. --Itsacon 05:07, 20 August 2012 (PDT)

Banner Buff

Does it actually have an upgrade to cover the entire team, or just duration? In all my play-time, its only been in a short area, not in an area wide enough to do as the strategy page encourages and spread out, none the less an area wide enough to count as "everyone". Sinez 16:51, 21 August 2012 (PDT)

Yeah, I remember hearing something about an upgrade for the buff banner letting it apply to everyone, and I have yet to find such a thing. ==Fax Celestis _talkcontrib^home 17:38, 25 August 2012 (PDT)

Certain bugs I've posted and undos to them

Can someone please confirm these? I've written this up and posted it on the wiki, making sure to test them thoroughly before doing so, yet it has gotten undo'd without a real reason. I am completely confident these are real bugs, but I don't want to get into some undo war over this, so I'm putting it here to get more support.

Here is what I wrote: ______

• Upgrades can be bought and sold after leaving the station only during the first wave. Every other wave afterward will prevent you from selling upgrades had you left the station after making the purchase.
• By changing a weapon via load out before walking up to the upgrade station, then buying a single upgrade will prevent you from buying or selling any upgrades, including the one just bought.
  • In the case of the Chargin' Targe and Splendid Screen, using this glitch will remove all upgrades for them.
• The +25% Blast Resistance upgrade reduces self damage taken from rocket jumps and sticky jumps.

______

For the last one, the blast resistance is surely a bug, as the Chargin' Targe's blast damage resistance doesn't save you from some the Grenade Launcher's self damage. I hope this can be sorted out. Hummus 17:22, 25 August 2012 (PDT)

I can confirm that upgrades can be sold during the first wave, and that the +25% Blast Resistance affects self damage from explosives. On a side note, both the Blast Resistance and Bullet Resistance also affect the Engineer's self damage received from his Sentry, wrangled or not. TheIgnorantMedic 04:48, 5 December 2012 (PST)

Doesn't it conflict? Please, repair it!

http://screenshooter.net/0536447/ctcctkq look, phlog can't make airblasts, can he? then why can we apply this bonus to him? — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Kubagega (talk) • (contribs) 02:44, 28 August 2012

Achievement Stuff

I got the "System Upgrade" achievement as Engineer by upgrading my Construction PDA, when the achievement is supposed to be for primary weapons. Maybe we should list that the Engineer's Construction PDA upgrades also count for this achievement? Spy is not our Spy! 13:22, 28 August 2012 (PDT)

Reload upgrade for scout weapons

The trivia section currently states:

Some upgrades are not available when three or more players are present, like the +20% Reload Speed upgrade on the Force-A-Nature and Soda Popper.

Bit after looking at it a bit, I think this is a) not true, and b) a bug, not trivia.

My observations so far:

• Player count doesn't come into it
• I've often seen the reload speed upgrade appear after a failed wave.
• I've seen mentions (haven't tried it myself yet) that the reload upgrade will appear after switching to another primary weapon and back.

I'll work out the last one, then add it to the bugs section, but does anyone else have any thoughts on the issue? --Itsacon 00:29, 27 September 2012 (PDT)

I checked on Player count that when 3 or more players in team, it won't appear. And a failed wave, I checked too, it'll appear when failed the wave when 3 or more players in team. And that trivia I added by myself because I don't think it's bug. I think it's the balance of gamemode. Hinaomi (talk) • (contributions) 00:49, 27 September 2012 (PDT)

If it's a means to balance, why is it a) only for scout and b) undocumented. I'd call it a bug, personally. Thanks for checking though. Have you verified whether it appears when you switch weapons? --Itsacon 02:32, 27 September 2012 (PDT)

Those weapons have some unbalance when play with 3 or more players (Like +50% faster reload speed that can upgrade 4 times). But If you think it's a bug, I'm not serious because it's just my option. Hinaomi (talk) • (contributions) 02:58, 27 September 2012 (PDT)

Undocumented behavior which differs from the norm and is game-changing is a bug. This fits those criterion. Darkid (|) 05:31, 27 September 2012 (PDT)

I've checked, and changing weapons does indeed enable the upgrade. To me that makes it a bug, not a balancing feature. I'll move it to the bugs section. I also think we should compile a list of the weapons where this occurs. I know for certain it happens to the soda popper, and I think I've seen it happen with the huntsman as well. Any others? --Itsacon 01:14, 4 October 2012 (PDT)

With the last patch, the reload upgrade has disappeared completely from the scout weapons. I'll remove it from bugs as well. --Itsacon 10:03, 14 October 2012 (PDT)

Bug: Autobuying Building-Upgrade Canteens when not playing as Engineer

Screenshots:
Canteen icon right lower corner
Chat message

So I have no idea what triggered the bug in the first place and I couldn't reproduce it. What happened was: When I approached the Upgrade Station and stepped away from it backwards, it automatically bought an Building Upgrade Canteen for me every time, even overwriting the other canteens I had, which resulted in losing a lot of cash. As you can see on the screens I was playing as Demo. It only happened to me once and I couldn't reproduce it any other time I tried to approach and leave the Station like that - it also never happened before. The only script I have installed in the game is a rocket-jump script (rocket jumping when pressing 'F') so I don't think that a user script was the problem. However I've seen it happen to other players too back then when Expert was still new. Should this bug be added to the Bug section of the page? -- Waffelgewalt 10:22, 24 December 2012 (PST)

It happened again just now, this time as Sniper. I have no idea what caused it. The only thing I can imagine is me stepping away from the Upgrade station backwards after noticing that I had no canteen equipped... but I'm not sure. -- Waffelgewalt 18:23, 29 December 2012 (PST)

Ideas for upgrades

I thought about it, an we could put a section up for ideas of new upgrades. I have even though of a few rules! Rules (told ya so)

New ideas are to have 1 empty line between the last. replies to an idea are space by a colon (:) uner the idea in question. do not put a blank line in between.

Please give constructive critisim when replying. I, a Moderator or an Admin will take action. usually not me.

It can not be over powered. at all. price is not a balance.

Do not insult others. seriously.

If you are not sure if your idea breaks the rules, ask me first ^-^

Thats the rules, now for my idea...

Superprototype 11:30, 26 March 2013 (PDT)

Speed boost canteen. It is a canteen that applies the disaplanary action speed boost effect when used, costs 75 credits. up to 5 can be bought at a time. Superprototype 11:31, 26 March 2013 (PDT)

No point in putting ideas here. Valve won't read them here. Better to post them on the Steam forums. Just saying.Eels 11:39, 26 March 2013 (PDT)

The wiki isn't for ideas. Use SPUF for that. Balladofwindfishes 11:51, 26 March 2013 (PDT)

bu- but... but... I wanted to be awesome... I have to take time to make an account to post this on a site I wont be noticed on!? *tear falls from eye* Superprototype 02:30, 27 March 2013 (PDT)

So, you didn't read the term to use the wiki? This place is not playground that can do everything. Rikka Takanashi (talk) • (contributions) 03:36, 27 March 2013 (PDT)

should we remove this topic, or shall we keep it as what NOT to post?

Superprototype 07:45, 27 March 2013 (PDT)

Worth adding upgrades to the individual weapon pages?

Like a neat box on each weapon page detailing what upgrades are available for it in MvM? What do you think? Zachariah Zuan (talk) 06:08, 4 October 2013 (PDT)

 Neutral I think so, because many people never want to look at this page to know how many upgrade for the weapons. But it's not good at the same time because most of melee weapons only have 2 upgrades (Attack speed and +hp on kill) which is useless in another thinking. Rikka Takanashi (talk) • (contributions) 06:23, 4 October 2013 (PDT)

 Pro I think this is great, having the information there will be covienent for people who would goto the weapons page for it AND the people who go here. StarHorder 08:06, 4 October 2013 (PDT)

 Con Would seem pretty pointless. As Hinaomi points out. Most weapons especially melee have limited upgrades. And the different costs/effects each weapon has is different depending on some weapons. And the amount of work to put it on every weapon is a bit much as well... Ashes (talk) 08:11, 4 October 2013 (PDT)

I don't mind doing the work myself, I'd need a little help formatting but really as it's my idea I don't mind doing the leg work of finding the different values and stats for each weapon, I'd just need help setting up the nifty little table. Zachariah Zuan (talk) 16:58, 5 October 2013 (PDT)

I can't remember how many pros do I need to go ahead and do it? And any more opinions on it, cause we're at a crossroads here. Zachariah Zuan (talk) 16:57, 9 October 2013 (PDT)

There really is no amount, but its best to have more input instead of just doing it. I'm still on my stand of saying nope. I'll leave my case there. Ashes (talk) 17:35, 9 October 2013 (PDT)

 Con I've gotta agree with Ashes and Hinaomi on this. It seems pretty pointless to do it, and keeping it on this page keeps all the info in one location. --Omolong (talk) 17:41, 9 October 2013 (PDT)

Seems fair, doubt there's much more to say on this now then. Zachariah Zuan (talk) 16:18, 10 October 2013 (PDT)

Canteen Buyback Bug?

It appears that after they added the feature to view the upgrades of your teammates, an annoying bug has appeared. Before the first wave starts, if you have bought canteens and go to view another person's upgrades, the upgrade station automatically does a buyback of the canteens you have bought. You get the money back, but you need to rebuy your canteens. Can anybody comfirm this for me? And is this even in the correct area to list the bug? Emrfish6 (talk) 14:50, 4 November 2013 (PST)

The updated prices of blast and bullet resistances

I'd like to note that the price of two upgrades mentioned above has been reduced to 300, but so far no one has changed it to be of correct amount. — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Spython (talk) • (contribs) 20:19, 6 January 2014

Melee Discoveries

The Powerjack only gets one level of "+25 Health On Kill". Here's proof: http://cloud-3.steampowered.com/ugc/3280054334233210971/8C77CDFDAA781B3054B07E5CFA39ADCBA372075C/ Litnin200 (talk) 20:08, 28 April 2014 (PDT)

Yeah, noticed that. I just lazy to add that, I'll add soon. Rikka Takanashi (talk) • (contributions) 21:36, 28 April 2014 (PDT)

Another find: the Spy's knives cost $200 to upgrade with "+25 Health On Kill", just like the Engineer's wrenches. Proof: http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/3280054334234386112/7EFF1A9018A654D1348B9CCD6C7F9389CB402DF6/ Litnin200 (talk) 21:38, 28 April 2014 (PDT)

I noticed that a long too, lazy for a long too lol. Rikka Takanashi (talk) • (contributions) 22:04, 28 April 2014 (PDT)

Spy Knife Damage

I'm confused about the statement on the Spy's Armor Penetration upgrade for his knives. It's empirically known that fully-upgraded Spys will 5-shot Giant Medics, which supposedly have 4500 health. The damage numbers flashing on my screen aren't always easy to see as Spy, I think because of the proximity to the (very tall) target, but when I notice them, they say 930-something damage damage (1870-something against Captain Punch). I think the exact number is 938, and this matches up with the Giant Medics' health. Therefore, I believe that the "X% out of 750" statement is either wrong, outdated, or very poorly explained, since I can find no way to end up with 938 using any interpretation of that statistic.

Leadfoot9 (talk) 13:06, 30 May 2014 (PDT)

I figured it out. The mechanic is weird, and it's poorly explained here.

Leadfoot9 (talk) 21:42, 26 July 2014 (PDT)

Bleed on Target

This upgrade has only 3 levels, and always has, as far as I can tell, but it's listed as having 4. Also, the cost is 200, not 250.

Leadfoot9 (talk) 21:48, 26 July 2014 (PDT)

I'll be checking it. Thanks for the notice. It will be fixed soon just after I check it. ▪ - 21:50, 26 July 2014 (PDT)

Some upgrades info

Explosive Headshot base damage for each rank upgrade is 150/170/190 (like Sniper Rifle, only affected by randomness modifier, no falloff, can be tested by disabling damage spread). Cannot deal crit but it's possible to mini-crit boost it (Buff Banner, Cleaner Carbine).

Armor Penetration damage for Spy is now: 188 (no upgrade)->375->563->750->938(max)

Building Health upgrade takes effect immediately, no longer need to rebuild buildings to gain the benefit.

--ThePsycho (talk) 00:49, 4 September 2014 (PDT)

Scotsman's Skullcutter Upgrades

Scotsman's Skullcutter, like most other weapons with a damage bonus, only has 3 levels of damage upgrades. The table does not reflect that. Leadfoot9 (talk) 19:12, 11 January 2015 (PST)

 Done Rikka Takanashi (talk) • (contributions) 21:10, 11 January 2015 (PST)

Explosive headshot numbers are incorrect

Article currently says EH slowdown duration is 2/3/4 seconds based on level, and 50/65/80% based on level. This isn't quite right. The duration is actually 1.0/1.5/2.0 seconds based on level. And while the slowdown is indeed 50/65/80% for normal robots, it's always 50% for giant robots, regardless of upgrade level. The 150/170/190 damage numbers are correct (though it's worth mentioning that +/-15% damage spread is applied to the damage value.) Sigsegv2 (talk) 18:34, 8 June 2015 (PDT)

Pictures please

Can we have the icons of the upgrade present on the station with the upgrade in the article, please.— The preceding unsigned comment was added by Msmeal18 (talk) • (contribs) 05:52 CET 16 December 2020

I'm not sure what youre talking about, but please, remember to sign your messages · Ashe (talk) 05:10, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

They're all achievement icons, as far as I know. It's not necessary to put them all here.
GrampaSwood (talk) 08:27, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

-20% movement speed on Madd milk and Jarate

So this upgrade is buggy because it seems to just set the robot's speed to what feels like like 80% of a heavy's speed, no matter the class (Very noticable on super scouts), but I have no idea how to test the true values of what's going on here. Any idea how to test? --Manta (talk) 10:22, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

What update made the Upgrade Station be refundable at anytime?

It seems you can use the "Refund Upgrades" button as many times as you want, contradicting what the Two Cities Update Patch Notes stated, that you need to collect "refund credits". I don't play official missions regurlarly, neither I play Mann Up. I play MVM a lot, but mostly on community servers and community map/missions, and the "Refund Upgrades" button did never appear grayed out for me, it's always there, available, after a wave is completed. I feel like this has changed, but it was an undocummented change on some patch we don't know. On my scoreboard, it always show "Upgrades, Buybacks, Canteen" at 0, on both the current wave and game total, unsure if it's a bug of my custom HUD. I recently updated the List of official tips to state that one of the MVM tips is outdated, but I'm not sure if the ability to refund as many times as you want is really something introduced on the Two Cities Update. - ▪ - 12:33, 11 November 2021 (UTC)

You're looking for the Gun Mettle update's patch notes, which I have been led there by both the r/tf2 subreddit and Steam Forums. Patch notes documents that tf_mvm_respec_limit has been set to 0. (tf_mvm_respec_credit_goal is untouched, though) -- Orinuse (talk) 13:15, 11 November 2021 (UTC)

Should we add that to the "Update history" section? Although, the terminlogy "skill respec" is not the most user-friendly. I may update the official tips page again, but again, the terminology might confuse readers. Edit: A friend of mine plays a lot of Mann Up, and based on his screenshots, I can confirm that the "Upgrades, Buybacks, Canteen" stats on the scoreboard does update. - ▪ - 13:50, 11 November 2021 (UTC)

Two thoughts:

1. For the "Update history" section, its more consistent to go by "Refund Credits", as previous entries of "Update history" go by "Refund Credits", not "respec". If there's a need to keep it close to the original notes, an addendum will do. Additionally, there's extremely low usage of the term "respec", only the few MvM enthusiasts would get it, and Valve themselves didn't used the term outside of their codebase anyways.

2. Since Valve majored used the "respec" term, that can be mentioned when explaining "Refund Credits" under the "Unused Contents" section ("respec" == "Refund Credits" somewhere). I suggested that since that section targets enthusiastic readers, so its them who would find the term "respec" meaningful. If the feature's overall meaningfulness is questioned, pointing to the heated 2015 Steam Forums should be enough. -- Orinuse (talk) 08:01, 12 November 2021 (UTC)

Rocket Specialist "bug"

Swood's reasoning for keeping this "bug" is "This clearly states that it (= Stun and blast radius) increases per point you buy." but both of these DO increase per point. Blast radius proof has been included in sigsegv's video. Stun duration does increase per point but it's minuscule, although I can def. feel it using 4 ticks vs 1 tick. You can verify it in tf_weaponbase_rocket.cpp:L496 which calls to L540 which performs a RemapValClamped(rocketSpecLevel, 1, 4, 0.5, 0.75) which equates to 0.5s stun on lvl 1, 7/12s lvl 2, 2/3s lvl 3, and 3/4s lvl 4. People spread the "doesn't do anything after the first point" because the main thing you are buying rocket spec for is the no damage fall off with a little bit of being able to stop giant scout movement (fun fact: giants only receive and 85% speed reduction instead of a full stop L554). Telling new players "oh it doesn't do anything" is easier than explaining why the minuscule gains on the other attributes are practically useless thus this false info has spread pretty far.

TL;DR everything does increase per point except no damage falloff (because duh). Jh34ghu43gu (talk) 17:21, 6 March 2022 (UTC)