Talk:Weapons

Details

I'm new here, which will explain my question. What is the meaning of the two headings in the icon column, "backpack" and "kill"? Perhaps a text legend should be added with links to pages that have a longer explanation would be in order. RobShaver 18:38, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Should we have a "Details" or "Special" column that summarizes special attributes and non-weapon weapons (Wrangler, lunchbox items, backburner, etc.)? Strange Quirk 01:04, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Perhaps, but I don't think it'd fit horizontally on small screens D: — Wind 01:19, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

The Icon column is for two things, the backpack icon, and the kill icon. There really isn't an explanation needed. As for an additional column, the details are all located on the weapon page, this page is merely for summarizing all the specific statistics of the weapon for comparison and reference. A "details" section may make it look a bit bloated. --Firestorm   18:44, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

I've changed the Icon column so it's a bit more specific. Thoughts? --Firestorm   18:55, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Actually, before the move we were considering removing the weapon damage columns so that changed values only had to be kept updated on the individual weapon pages themselves, with this page acting more as a sort of hub. This would also free up some space for a details section which could describe the weapon attributes in brief. Smash is okay with it last I checked, anyone against this? --Wilsonator 19:26, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

I prefer having the damage column here. I think a details section is unnecessary, as once you know the details of a weapon, you won't forget it, but you will forget the damage often. I like being able to compare the point-blank damage of the FaN and Scattergun (for example) and notice that a crit FaN will NOT kill a Soldier in one hit, where that info would normally be buried and not noticed as easily in the individual weapon page --Firestorm   19:32, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Damage Per Second?

Should we have a column for DPS? If people think the table would be too wide, should we include it in the weapon pages? Its useful information, especially when comparing weapons. If it were up to me, I would have a "short term DPS" which would only take into account time between shots, and "long term DPS" which would account for reload times, but that might be overkill. Still, how else are you going to easily find out which weapons can take out a building in the shortest time? Strange Quirk 02:54, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

I'll add it if I don't get a response. Strange Quirk 12:38, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

I wouldn't say there's much need for a DPS column. While it's increasingly RPGish, TF2 is still an FPS and taking imperfect aim, the generally short and explosive nature of the combat, the fact you're usually fighting more than one opponent and the firing rates of all the weapons into account, getting a standardised DPS for every one would be difficult and probably not useful enough to make it worth it. When it comes to taking out buildings, it's more down to general knowledge and the strategy sections, just a short note in the minigun/flamethrower descriptions about how they're ideal for taking out SGs would do the same thing. That and it'd be hell updating it for every weapons page and on this page whenever valve patches the damage values for a weapon. --Wilsonator 15:24, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, we've talked about this before. If the person really wants to know it, they can figure it out using base damage and attack interval. --Firestorm   15:59, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Eh, ok. Though if you want to take into account reload times its not completely trivial. I'm not going to press it further, but i think that at least for the miniguns and flamethrowers we should have DPS instead of bullet/particle damage, since those are pretty useless. Strange Quirk 19:19, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

The DPS is listed on the individual weapon pages for those weapons --Firestorm   19:29, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Hidden attributes

Since it applies to multiple weapons, I'm putting it here. If you look on TF2Items/items_game.txt, you can see that certain hidden attributes present on some weapons are down right weird...

Huntsman: Primary max ammo bonus (0.5) (37=0.5)

As far as I know, you have less arrows than bullets with the sniper rifle.

Crit-a-cola: Lunch box adds mini-crits (2)

This is right under the visible "Mini-crit" attribute, so I don't know what that means.

Also, the Flare gun has an hidden attribute which is "Secondary max ammo penalty", which makes sense since it does have less ammo than the shotgun.

We're getting trolled hard by Valve D: -- Vi3trice _(talk) 18:37, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

the 0.5 "bonus" turns 25 sniper bullets into 12 arrows. A lot of these are hidden attributes because they are understood by the weapon's nature, or in the case of the huntsman/flare gun are significantly different from their base weapon, so it's unnecessary to state such attributes, because players can assume that they would be different. -- Nineaxis 19:15, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Including adding nonsensical names to it? I mean, it says bonus. It's almost as weird as Robin hitting the server with sticks. -- Vi3trice _(talk) 19:23, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Drop screens

I had an idea, that we could add the drop/craft screen image of each weapon. Like, for example. Good idea? Same for hats too. CWalkthroughs 22:07, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

There's no point, the backpack icons for every weapon are already on the page. -The Neotank ( | Talk) 22:30, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

Ah yea, never thought of that. CWalkthroughs 22:37, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

The Frying Pan

The soldier's new frying pan hasn't been added to the weapons page. [1] It is a reskin of the soldier's shovel, and was added in the Mannconomy update. --Stevoisiak 19:08, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Scout Bats

The Bat and Sandman are listed with damage range 24-46 here, and 32-39 in their individual pages. Which is correct? Hrusha 22:36, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Number of Vintage Weapons

I counted 35. I'm not sure if Valve is planning to implement a way for the new weapons/hats to become vintage, so if they say something suggesting they do obviously my factoid is subject to change. Geno 03:45, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

This is not true. According to the TF2 Team:

Some items that used to be rare will become more common when they are available for purchase. We wanted to give players this option, but still recognize people who obtained those items “the old-fashioned way” in the past. So we decided to perform a one-time conversion of all the old items into "Vintage" versions, which will never be attainable in the future. This way, those older rare items remain rare (in fact, they're even rarer, because they're limited editions now).

Now based on this, no more Vintage Items will be added. Danton 21:17, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

True Primaries (Spy & Demoman)

Forget about Crafting for a moment. According to the Animation sets, the Spy does not have a Primary Weapon Animation. His Revolver is refereed to as "Secondary". This is also why the Ambassador is a Secondary Slot craftable. Primary Weapons are usually the most important/powerful weapon that class has. You may think differently but I would rather backstab a Medic then his Heavy than shoot them with a Gun with a chance of the Heavy seeing. On another note, the Spy holds his Knife in the class selection screen while the others (excluding the Medic) are wielding their Primary. Now for the Demoman, in the Animation Sets, the Stickybomb Launcher is refereed to as "Primary" and the Pipe Bomb Launcher is "Secondary". Also the Scottish Resistance and the Chargin' Targe replace the Stickybomb Launcher. On top of this, the Stickybomb Launcher can deal more damage at once than the Grenade Launcher. The most likely reason these weapons are not the first weapon in the Buckets is probably because these weapons are not practical standard weapons. They are more so Opportunity Weapons. Danton 21:40, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

That's lovely. We're not changing which are primary.  – Smashman _(talk) 21:50, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Good to know. I never expected you to. Just wanted to share what I have found. Danton 13:35, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

We already knew about that. To add to the confusion, just look at the disguise system. Take out your revolver, press Last Disguise and look at which weapon your disguise has. That's also why we're not switching it. -- Vi3trice _(talk) 13:43, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Oktoberfest

It's not a taunt attack. Sure, it's unique, but it does no damage so it shouldn't be under Taunt Attacks. Yes or no? Lemon 19:08, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Leave it. The Medigun doesn't kill people, but it's still a weapon. Zoolooman 19:10, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Build-ables

I think the 4 sentries and teleporter should be added. The only reason i say teleporter is because of telefraging. M-NINJA 22:11, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

Labeling inconsistency

I noticed a slight discrepancy on the page when it comes to labeling the weapons, when compared to the labels on the individual class/weapon pages. The icons used for the weapons on this page are those found within the game, whereas the icons utilized on the class pages are those stylized 'angled' icons created by the community. Also, base weapons are listed as 'Standard' weapons on this page, while they are listed as 'Stock' weapons on the class/weapon pages. For the sake of consistency on the wiki, I believe one of each of the two sets should be phased out. (I'll leave the decision on which sets to keep up to more seasoned editors; I don't feel that this a decision a new editor should be making alone quite yet.) Disaster 22:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Nice eye. While I feel not much can be done about the icons as there are so many versions (Template, backpack, class page, etc.), we can definitely phase out one of the two sets through simple replacing. Have to keep a sense of uniformity among pages! --Vaught 08:52, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Weapon Level?

I recently began to notice that some weapons have a different "Level" than others, for example my Flare Gun reads "Level 5 Flare Gun" whereas my Holy Mackerel reads "Level 42 Fish." I have also noticed some players with different variations of levels; but to get to the point; how are levels determined or are they randomly assessed to the weapon as it is found or does the weapon "level" as it is used?This may not seem important to others, but out of curiosity; bare with me on this. --Ignisviscus 08:46, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

The Item levels article will surely satisfy your curiosity :) Moussekateer 08:47, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Table Labels

Is it possible to put the table headers at the bottom of the table too? (Damage, ammo carried etc.). Some of the tables are far too long such that you need to scroll all the way to the top of each one to see what each box is actually referring to. -- Firestorm 21:59, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

It's what I did on Wind's Config, and yes, I approve. Perhaps even every "class change", or every 3 class change, or something — Wind 22:00, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

Well, if we incorporate Minip's changes(Which I like!), I propose that these are included as well. -- Firestorm 22:10, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

sticky bomb launchers and nade launchers

i thought the sticky bomb launcher/resisentence/jumper/targe was a primairy weapon, and not a secondary. and the nade launcher a secondary. edit: i just think by myself. when you have to equip them, i am right. but in the fight its wiki right. what? what you think? Jem 21:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

The weapons page is organized based on Slot. Slot 1 is the weapon you equip when you press 1, same for slot 2, and slot 3 is always melee. Psychopath 07:13, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Jumper Weapons

Don't feed the troll and you'll be alright guys. — Wind 01:14, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

What came first?

The Jarate or the Razorback. These two slot 2 items were released at the same time, what should take higher precedence for their ordering: The fact that the Razorback was announced first or the fact that the Jarate is obtainable through achievements first? Psychopath 00:17, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

I was going by the announced time, since at the time the weapons could only be acquired via drop. Then again, your way makes sense as well. Hrm..--Vaught 00:27, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

I'd go with whatever item is first via Achievements. This is the first item the player gets, it seems to be the logical order Valve wants it. Jarate was also announced long before the Sniper update, although it was probably a joke at the time. Balladofwindfishes 00:41, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

Yes, it was. --Vaught 00:46, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

The sniper trivia

i think the Sniper's Skewer kill taunt trivia should be on either the huntsman's page or the skewer's page. -= M-NINJA =- 02:45, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Weapon Levels

How do weapons level up? I have a level 10 huntsman and I saw another guy with a level 57. How does that work?DARREN 06:57, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

The level of weapons are basically meaningless as they have no impact on performance. Hopefully the Item levels article will clear things up for you. User:K-Mac (Talk | Contrib) 07:16, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

Small question

Opinion, which looks better?

Weapon	Weapon Name	Kill Icon	Ammo Loaded	Ammo Carried	Damage Range	Notes / Special Abilities
Stock	Flamethrower		Fire: 200 Air blasts: 10 (same reserve)	N/A	Base (Max): 139.4 / sec. Crit (Max): 418.2 / sec. Afterburn: 6 / sec. × 10 secs.1	Secondary fire blasts compressed air which knocks back enemies, redirects enemy projectiles, and extinguishes flames on teammates, using 20 ammo per blast. All reflected rockets/grenades/arrows will inflict Mini-Crit damage.

Or

Primary

Weapon	Kill Icon	Ammo Loaded	Ammo Carried	Damage Range	Notes / Special Abilities
Stock Flamethrower		Fire: 200 Air blasts: 10 (same reserve)	N/A	Base (Max): 139.4 / sec. Crit (Max): 418.2 / sec. Afterburn: 6 / sec. × 10 secs.1	Secondary fire blasts compressed air which knocks back enemies, redirects enemy projectiles, and extinguishes flames on teammates, using 20 ammo per blast. All reflected rockets/grenades/arrows will inflict Mini-Crit damage.

Suggested it should be moved here, the same question applies. It just doesn't feel right to have the weapon icon in an unlabeled section and the rest having a label. The first creates Weapon Name column. The other merges the two, creating a bit more room. I wanted your say. And since it affects all class pages, I wanted to get the majority vote. --Vaught 07:07, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

Kill Icons

I've made these kill icons to contribute and replace current in-game kill icons (or lack of icons)

Comments/suggestions would be appreciated :) Bulletmagnet

Sorry, but we want to give users an overview how the Kill Icon looks in the game. It would be irritating to also have not-official, non-ingame icons in the list. Picard ^talk 17:29, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

You could however try to get these submitted to Valve. Stbeecher 19:12, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Can we divide this list up by class instead of slot?

The more pertinent comparison is between a single class's weapons, not between the primaries and secondaries across classes. Anyone  Support? :o Zoolooman 17:23, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

 Support Picard ^talk 17:29, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

 Support Any way would work to me. But what would happen to pages that have links that redirect to the PDA section like the Engy PDA page? -- Swordz (talk | contribs) 17:35, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

We could just relink those sections to the relevant slot subsection of the class section of the page. Zoolooman 17:38, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

 Oppose The individual class pages already do this, see Scout. What we need to do is write an actual article for this page and make is shorter, the images are way too large. MK 09:59, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

New page for only melee weapons, etc.?

On weapon pages for the type you can click 'melee' and are redirected to this weapons page. I think there should also be weapons sub-pages containing only that specific class (primary, secondary and melee), and it would be a more obvious place for the descriptions to link to. Any thoughts on this? Mrshoe 15:30, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Should weapons unlocked by achievements have their required number on their individual page?

At the moment, each individual weapon page lists details about the weapons, but not how many achievements it takes to unlock them. Is it worth adding in, as at the moment you can only find out how many achievements are needed to unlock a weapon by looking at the individual class achievement pages.

So say, on the Sandmans individual page, we state that it can be unlocked by completing 16 Scout achievements, rather than having to go to the Scouts achievement list page and looking at the milestones.

How many weapons are there in this game?

Can someone do a count on this? How many unique weapons are in Team Fortress 2? And I dont mean promotional weapons that are just reskins. I mean the droppable ones with stats. Excluding the rocket and sticky jumpers of course. Does anybody know? I'm really curious on this one. --Stevoisiak 00:10, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

A weapons full history?

Now that each (or at least most) weapon has an update history of everytime it is modified through various patches, should the patch that it was included into the game (both stock and non-stock) also be listed along with any information not listed in the weapon's description (for example, the Razorback's speed penalty is only mentioned on the patch when it is taken out and the Sandman's original double jump penalty isn't mentioned until the 4th patch listed, which was 6 months after it came out. The issue is rather small (since previous iterations are for the most part, not necessary), but I figure newer players may occasionally hear other players talk about previous weapons and it may be handy for a reference.

BASEBALLFURIES 16:44, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Redirects to this page via Primary/Secondary/etc.

With the new arrangement and organization here on the Weapons page (sorting weapons by class, rather than one monstrous list for each slot), it turns out the Primary/Secondary/Melee/etc. pages, which before were redirects to the applicable aforementioned monster lists, now have nowhere specific to actually redirect to on this page.

What should be done about this? Should we change the redirects to generic ones (i.e. just dump the user off at the Weapons page?) Make each class's Primary/Secondary/Melee/PDA1&2 into unique subheaders? Introduce new pages for each loadout slot that kinda talks about the general use and has a brief list of applicable items for each class? A page about loadout slots with an abbreviated version of said info that they can redirect to?

I'm in favor of one of the latter two ideas (either giving each loadout slot its own page, or a page detailing slots in brief.) But I'm a little curious as to what you guys think, hence this discussion. (: Gerk 01:53, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

I noticed this too when trying to fix an weapon infobox. The only solution with the current page layout is a generic redirect to the weapons article. I don't think it's a big enough issue to warrant a new article or a section specifically on slots. —Moussekateer·talk 01:56, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Okay, I've got it...kinda. If we're linking to a certain loadout slot in the context of a certain class we can link directly to the duplicately-named sections using underscores and numbers. This, however, does not apply to the first instance of each (i.e. The Scout's sections, or the "PDA Items" slot for the Engy.)

For example, if we're talking about the Shortstop and recommend using one of his many Secondary drink items with it, the word "Secondary" would link to Weapons#Secondary as before. Conversely, if we're talking about 'Secondary' on the Heavy page, we'd link to Weapons#Secondary_5. (And, no, for uniformity's sake we can't use Secondary_1 to link to the Scout; I tried. ;_; )

A little complex, I know (for a non-template affair, anyway), but this is a rudimentary solution of sorts to my initial quandary. Gerk 02:24, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

The more elegant solution would be to use anchors to link to a specific class' slot weapons. I've already changed the infobox to just link to the weapons article, I guess I could implement this anchors method.... —Moussekateer·talk 02:34, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

On second thoughts maybe not. Cases like the pain train, where the weapon is used by more then one class, makes my intended implementation impossible. I was hoping to take the used-by attribute to link to [[Weapons#{{{used-by}}}slot|slot]] when anchors are used, but because of those weapons this makes it much more difficult to pull off. —Moussekateer·talk 02:39, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Oh, okay. I'm a little Wiki-illiterate so I was about to ask what exactly you meant by Anchors, since I thought anchors were like Page#Section or what have you, which was what my jury-rigged solution entailed. Right on. Gerk 02:41, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Anchors are these invisible tags you stick on an article page so that nomatter how the page sections are renamed or moved around the link will be present. For example ==Weapons {{Anchors|weapon|guns|weapons of mass destruction}} == means you can link to that part of the page by using Article title#guns no matter what the section title is. Quite useful in some circumstances especially as you can stick the anchors anywhere, not just in section headers. —Moussekateer·talk 02:45, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Can we go back to slot division instead of class?

There's now no page where you can see all the weapons of each slot grouped together at once, where as in a previous discussion, somsone pointed out that all classes already have all their weapons listed in this format on their own character pages, making this page redundant. I'd rather this go back to slot division, preferably with just the kill icons back and no full weapon images since they all have kill icons now. The page in its current form is too long, takes a while to load on slower computers, and is a pain to get to the section you want.  Support for going back, anyone?

VinLAURiA 03:16, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Electro-sappers

The image redlinks. Anyone got any idea where the real image is? Electromagnet 16:33, 21 March 2011 (UTC)