Talk:Projectiles/Archive 1

The following discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it.

What about the flamethrower?

The flamethrower is not a hitscan weapon, but it isn't exactly a projectile weapon either. Where does it fit in all this? Should the flamethrower be mentioned on this page? Monkeyfetus 21:29, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

I think it's technically a hitscan weapon, but with a set range in which enemies will be damaged... But I guess we should add it, tho. Delicious cake 21:31, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

Sandman and Reflecting

We need to confirm or disprove definitively whether melee weapons can reflect projectiles, and if they can, which weapons can reflect which projectiles. I added a sentence saying that the Sandman can hit baseballs back, but it was removed because we need a link to proof. However I don't see such a link confirming the claim that the Heavy can punch Grenades. The Sandman article says "The Sandman is able to collect baseballs launched by opposing Scouts, you can also hit them back in mid air which requires good timing." This however doesn't have a citation either. I don't really want this to turn into an edit war; let me know what you guys think. JARSInc 12:00, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Sandman ball and it's reflects

It seems my contribution regarding the sandman ball reflecting other sandman balls in the air was removed, I'd like to note that I have witnessed and performed this in the past: it's legit (just damned hard/lucky).

Adding to that I've noted the sandman ball reflecting other projectiles. The first I've heard of it is this thread at SPUF, i've noted it's not confirmed as I've seen no evidence in my experience, nor on any video's. Some people have asked for video's in that thread so I guess it's quite possible - I'll keep an eye out. --RJackson 05:09, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

"The Heavy can reflect grenades if he punches them with the K.G.B."

What is this I don't even -- OluapPlayer _(t) 22:03, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

Smashman and I tested this a while ago, at both normal speed and host_timescale 0.25, but were unsuccessful. — Wind 22:13, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

Testing projectile speeds.

How? This list isn't going to complete itself! --Vaught 05:29, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

No one? :c --Vaught 20:48, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

I'd do it if I had any idea how to :S Moussekateer 20:48, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

I'm curious how people got these numbers to begin with..--Vaught 03:13, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

If you are feeling particularily devious, you can snoop around in the code to find out, but I've long since forgotten where... found a related article here. Hostile Companion Cube ^Roar 23:29, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Midair Collisions

Just added a video showing an arrow hitting/exploding a crit rocket. It seems legit. Should it have a mention? Grug 20:42, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Jarate collisions

This video shows that Jarate can be exploded be an arrow, even from the same sniper http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTv21YCB89Y this should be added to the table of projectiles Illegalwaffies 22:22, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Done. I tested it myself to make sure and got a sweet shot on my 10th try :D —Moussekateer·talk 22:54, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Voice clip

Doesn't sound anything like "crocket". NRAGE 16:30, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

It sounds D: Listen again, and again, and again.Jag Gentleman 17:28, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

Flamethrower particles are invisible? Since when?

The article states that flamethrower particles are invisible, but create a distortion effect. However, the bright orange flames spouting from a Pyro's primary weapon always seem perfectly visible to me. Are they just a visual effect, then, while the particles that actually do the damage and set people on fire are separate, and invisible? Can someone please clarify? Zoon-li 19:15, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

Yes. The "flames" you see are a visual effect spawned by the weapon when fired and not the projectiles themselves. You can confirm this for yourself in the viewmodel/world model codes for the Flamethrowers. (And yes, this means it's easily moddable and yes, it has been modded before several times for great lulz :D). Hostile Companion Cube ^Roar 05:13, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

If you want to check out the mechanics, type "tf_debug_flamethrower 1" with sv_cheats on and fire your flamethrower, or get a bot to do so. On a somewhat related note, the particles do not cast a distortion effect, they are instead completely invisible; and Sharpened Volcano Fragment does not use these particles to deal fire damage as claimed in the article, as it is an "On Hit" effect. I just tested both in the Item Test map. I'll fix that in the article. DarthVella 03:03, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Double post - sorry. I've found a pretty comprehensive video dealing with the "flame" projectiles, if we want to add it in the article. I'm not sure whether or not it belongs though. DarthVella 03:44, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Alternative Projectile table

Projectile	Speed (HU/s)	Arcs	Sticks	Reflectable	Destroyed by
Arrow	1875 (Huntsman) Unknown (Crusader's Crossbow)	Yes	Yes	Yes	Arrows
Baseball	1940	Yes	No	Yes	Nothing
Buffalo Steak Sandvich	-	Yes	No	Yes	Any player can take it.
Flare	1450	Yes	No	Yes	Flares
Grenade	850 (Grenade Launcher) 1331 (Loch-n-Load)	Yes	No	Yes	Nothing
Jarate	850	Yes	No	Yes	Arrows
Mad Milk	850	Yes	No	Yes	Nothing
Rocket	1100 (Rocket Launcher/Black Box/Rocket Jumper) 1980 (Direct Hit) Unknown Sentry Gun	No	No	Yes	Arrows
Sandvich	-	Yes	No	Yes	Any player can take it.
Stickybomb	805-1850 (Varies based on charge)	Yes	Only to world	Yes	Bullets Melee weapons Syringes Stickybombs (Scottish Resistance)
Syringe	990 (Syringe Gun/Blutsauger)	Yes	Only to world	No	Nothing

How about this?--Kid Of The Century 16:38, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

If it can be slimmed down, certainly; it looks a bit large at the moment - both vertically and horizontally. I'll try get a slimmer version together in my Sandbox - moving to a vertical list is something I certainly want to see implemented. - 17:18, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

How about this: User:RJackson/sandbox/Template:ProjectilesTable - 18:14, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Definitely better than mine. I'd center the numeric values and possibly separate the rows with multiple entries (arrows and rockets), but that's just me.--Kid Of The Century 20:54, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

By the way, how are accelerated Stickybombs with the Chargin Targe? O_o?--Kid Of The Century 07:06, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Oh, they're not. I misinterpreted (Varies based on charge). I'll fix that. As for seperate rows, Yeah I suppose that'd make sense. - 12:25, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Nearly perfect. I'd suggest just a couple of details:

List of projectiles
Projectile	Speed (HU/s)		Arcs	Sticks	Reflectable	Destroyed by
Arrow	Huntsman	1875	Yes	Yes	Yes	Arrows
	Crusader's Crossbow	Unknown

Fixed cell height and class icons (I'd love to have those aligned on the left, in the "speed" column).--Kid Of The Century 15:46, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

I don't really want to go with fixed cell height, but I've implemented the class icons. - 22:50, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Neither I love setting rows with a fixed heigth, but the seeing two rows in a table split 25/75 irks me to no end. Apparently using class icons has somewhat fixed the rows height... Nah, I was wrong.--Kid Of The Century 14:44, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

Flame projectiles and water

I've done a few tests with regards to whether or not flame projectiles from flamethrowers deal damage under water. I remember that they used to, but my tests showed that they don't anymore. However, there were some strange anomalies where I fired through water and dealt damage to someone on partially outside it. I suspect that they will not harm anyone if they make contact under water, but will deal damage out of water regardless of whether or not there was water in the way, but I've been unable to replicate these results. If anyone knows could they please let me know, otherwise I'll be looking for a map to figure this out on. DarthVella 04:13, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Short Circuit

We need some testing to figure out if the Short Circuit destroys arrows, baseballs, Cow Mangler 5000 lasers, Righteous Bison projectiles, flares, Jarate, Mad Milk, and syringes. The demonstration video shows it destroys rockets, grenades, and stickies. -Rocket Ship BBQ 18:50, 21 August 2011 (PDT)

Huntsman damage

On the Huntsman article, it says the arrows it fires have their damage affected by distance. This article says exactly the opposite. I have no idea if the Huntsman has the damage it deals actually affected by distance between target and attacker; I'm sure only that it can deal more than 120 damage on a fully charged bodyshot with no additional buffs. If no one is sure, then I suggest removing the information from both articles. Cheers. Adreadline 12:06, 27 August 2011 (PDT)

I'm positive that it has no falloff/rampup, as in it's not affected by distance. On the Huntsman page, the note under the damage information, which was probably added to all pages, should be removed. -Rocket Ship BBQ 21:54, 31 August 2011 (PDT)

Mangler's Projectile

The mangler's projectile is just a 3D white prism. Every other feature of the weapon is done via particle effects, making this particular projectile tricky to take an image of. I don't really know much about the particle viewer/editor, not enough at all to try and extract the particles. I-ghost suggested taking the prism and overlaying the particle on top of it, which would work just fine. Or we could just take a picture of the particle and ignore the prism (as it is entirely covered by particles in game). Balladofwindfishes 10:48, 16 September 2011 (PDT)

I don't know much about extracting, but I agree with simply the particle effects if the white prism is mostly covered ingame. Or, you /could/ take a screenshot from in game... -Rocket Ship BBQ 15:22, 16 September 2011 (PDT)

Exact projectile speeds

So I digged around in the game's code and salvaged these numbers (taken directly from the game). TF2 projectiles also cheat physics, each projectile has its own 'gravity modifier' to make the projectile fly exactly as Valve wants (tsk...). Sadly I couldn't find numbers on everything, here's what I can find though:

Jar (madmilk, jarate): 1000u/s

Rockets (every rocket (cow mangler isn't listed) except the ones listed below): 1100 units/sec

Direct Hit: 1100u/s*1.80 = 1980u/s

Liberty Launcher: 1100u/s*1.40 = 1540u/s

Flames: Not sure exactly... The code mentions 1000 and 2000 as well as references to the 'current time'. My guess is that the particles start at 2000u/s and slow down to 1000u/s over time.

Grenade launcher: 1200u/s

Loch'n'load: 1200u/s*1.25 = 1500u/s

Crossbow bolts: 2400u/s with a gravity modifier of 0.2

Huntsman arrows: Scale from 1800u/s to 2600u/s in 1 second, gravity modifier scales from 0.5 to 0.1

Stickies: Scale from 900u/s to 2400u/s at max charge

CursedGhost 15:07, 21 October 2011 (PDT)

Yes, game files are good. BUT! We have tested these projectiles and confirmed their actual speeds ingame. Coding is fine, but ingame proof is far superior. Fyahweather 15:35, 21 October 2011 (PDT)

In game testing is an imprecise science. If the in-game testing aligns with what we find in the game files, then we can reasonably expect the in-game files to be correct, and should use their more precise values. — Armisael (T | C) 15:56, 21 October 2011 (PDT)

Crossbow bolts Grenades Huntsman arrows as good as I can prove the values I wrote. Should I edit them in the main article? (as well as edit the individual weapon pages affected) CursedGhost 16:38, 21 October 2011 (PDT)

 Neutral I don't think you should put it on the actual page until we reach a consensus. However, I do think that the speeds in the files might not reflect the actual speeds observed in-game. After all, if the speeds in game are different, we want those speeds instead. —Rocket Ship BBQ(•) 17:56, 21 October 2011 (PDT)

I personally know that these values are correct, not sure how I can go about proving this though :(, for example rocket entities have a property "m_vInitialVelocity" which upon inspection states that the projectile is flying at 1100.0u/s CursedGhost 19:15, 25 October 2011 (PDT)

I think observed value might be more useful, as I'm assuming the Grenade observed value is 850u/s because they measured its forward speed as opposed to its speed along its arc. Nevertheless, not many (read:none) people rely on accurate u/s measurements to improve their airshotting/etc. However, the numerical speeds do help gauge relative speeds between projectiles that behave differently, such as rockets and grenades; in which I think a single-axis measure (as opposed to along its arc) would be better. However, observed speeds are different anyways, as firing grenades up is slower than firing grenades downward. I'm completely undecided. Need more peoples' opinions. :P —Rocket Ship BBQ(•) 21:09, 25 October 2011 (PDT)

Monoculus's eyerockets

These deserve their own sub section.

They have two different speed, one which is slower than a scout and the other which seems to match the Libertylauncher. And a very notable difference is the eyerockets can be destroyed with rockets, arrows and syringues. Syringues even sometimes "deflect" them. I will make a video shortly. Hell-met 11:14, 10 November 2011 (PST)

Righteous Bison projectile speed

I did some testing and the projectile speed seems to be about 1220 HU/s. Can anyone else confirm this before adding it in? NeoSamus 23:25, 31 January 2012 (PST)

After doing some testing I can conclude that the Righteous Bison/Pomson 6000 shots travel slightly faster than the default Rocket Launcher speed (1100), and travel at approximately default Grenade Launcher speed (1220). You are correct. Damax3rd 08:37, 1 August 2012 (PDT)

I pulled the velocity XYZ values directly from the projectile, they remained constant throughout the lifetime of the projectile, and the calculation ended up with 1200 HU/s. -FlaminSarge 14:13, 1 August 2012 (PDT)

List of sticky entities

Can we get a list of the various entities that stickybombs do and don't stick to?--Henke37 06:31, 18 October 2012 (PDT)

I need to do those tests, but once those are done (and we actually save the information this time), then it'll be up. -FlaminSarge 02:53, 25 October 2012 (PDT)

IIRC, it boils down to: if it moves, is a door, or is not solid, stickies don't stick. ==Fax Celestis _talkcontrib^home 08:58, 25 October 2012 (PDT)

Rather, it's that if it's NOT the world (it's an entity/func_something), then it won't stick. This includes breakables, doors, etc. but I'm not sure whether it sticks to prop_dynamic entities, particularly since stickies stick to capture points. -FlaminSarge 05:48, 27 October 2012 (PDT)

CM5K projectiles move slower?

It says in the article that normal rockets move at 1100 HU/s, while CM5K blasts only move at 1000. Is this actually true? I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere else, and when I looked through the history, this bit of information just sort of appears out of nowhere in this revision here. Keybored6522 15:37, 27 November 2012 (PST)

I had done a velocity test on most projectiles a while back, so yeah, they should be correct. I'll doublecheck. -FlaminSarge 21:01, 4 December 2012 (PST)

Dendodge accidentally reverted it when he made the table pretty. Nice catch. -FlaminSarge 21:07, 4 December 2012 (PST)

Repair claw for the Rescue Ranger

I added as much information as I could. As far as I'm aware, the projectile is a CTFProjectile_Arrow with the model w_models\w_repair_claw.mdl, and functions similarly to a healing bolt from the Crusaders Crossbow in the terms of velocity and damage falloff. Thediode 06:24, 23 December 2012 (PST)

Sandman/Wrap Assassin Ball speed differences

From this video, we can see that the Sandman ball flies further and faster compared to the Wrap Assassin's. This means the projectile has a lower potential distance traveled. Anyone want to find out how fast the Wrap Assassin's ball actually flies? I'm asking the creator of the video. This was also really recent (March 2016). Archrelico "Mexi" 11:18, 1 May 2016 (PDT)

Probably the smart thing to do is write a sourcemod plugin. Here's some basic code to find a sandman ball entity's position, this could (probably) be extended using Profilers to find the speed:

public OnEntityCreated(entity, const String:classname[]) {
	if(strcmp(classname, "tf_projectile_stun_ball") == 0) {
		SDKHook(entity, SDKHook_SpawnPost, BallSpawned);
	}
}
public BallSpawned(entity) {
	new Float:position[3];
	GetEntPropVector(entity, Prop_Send, "m_vecOrigin", position);
}

Darkid « Talk — Contribs » 11:31, 1 May 2016 (PDT)

Dang, how do I use this? Sourcemod's never been my thing. Archrelico "Mexi" 16:24, 1 May 2016 (PDT)

I was more making notes for myself :) I'm happy to walk you through the setup, though. Here's the updated plugin: [1], I'll probably rework this on wed/thu. Darkid « Talk — Contribs » 10:15, 2 May 2016 (PDT)

I'm still going to be way too busy updating the Community Strategy pages and finding out how to implement a skin variation section in Decorated skins, so I'll probably leave you to doing the calculations if you're really up to it. I honestly know nothing about Sourcemod. Archrelico "Mexi" 10:40, 2 May 2016 (PDT)

Incorrect Need Image Notice?

What is "needimage|Updated CM5K shot" for?

Is this just an update note incorrectly written as instructions for needing an image? Anyar (talk) 14:44, 8 February 2017 (PST)

No, that's really what it is. Its the template we use for any time an image is required. the wording maybe off but it still gets to the point. Pretty straight forward.

Ashes (talk) 16:16, 8 February 2017 (PST)

Dragons fury fireball projectile

In the Projectile sheet for all projectile shows the dragons fury fireball and what can destroy it. It now says that only the short circuit can only destroy it, while in the wiki for the dragons fury it shows it can be destroyed by more. It is under the bug section, that is why i ask if those should be added to the list. MagicalJester (talk) 09:19, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

It's unintended, so it shouldn't be noted.
GrampaSwood (talk) 10:03, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

Addition of a missing projectile

I have seen this happen and still does exist so I'll say this in a simple way

The Short Circut's alt fire is reflectable it also changes to the color of the pyros (reflectors) team. Zarioo12 (talk) 13:28, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

This is intentional, I'm not sure what the addition would be.
GrampaSwood (talk) 13:31, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

The preceding discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it.