Talk:Shortstop/Archive 1

The following discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it.

MVM Money?

So we know it works with milk, healthkits, medics etc, but does the healing bonus apply to collecting money in MVM? Might wanna add somethin' if we find it does Boop (talk) 09:16, 21 November 2014 (PST)

"...a chance of slowing down the target"

There is only a chance of slowing down?--Jordan 04:36, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

That was just me and my fancy English, plus the way Natascha voiced it as '100% chance to slow target' seemed suspicious. It's changed now anyway.--Focusknock 17:32, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

Shortstop

Its primary weapon, not a secondary weapon. It replaces the FAN. Balthazar 00:58, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

We're aware. This is an assumed page we made before. We'll update it.  – Smashman _(talk) 01:01, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

I'm assuming its still protected from editing to prevent server load, but it does seem a contradiction in terms to have it protected with the recent addition template on it. Balthazar 01:16, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

If it's similar to the COP 357 derringer, shouldn't the page say "it appears as a four-barreled derringer", as opposed to "it appears as a four-barreled pistol"? CdeMonkey

I just had to look up what a derringer was. In my opinion, it's fine as "Pistol". While not entirely accurate, it's the easiest for those without gun knowledge to understand.-RJ 03:05, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

Correct name

http://www.tf2items.com/allitems.php has it as "Shortstop" (from items_game.txt). So the current title is correct. -RJ 00:59, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

Damage + Function Times

Just did some testing with a couple bots; here's what I got:

Damage

• Base: 12 per pellet
• Max Ramp Up: 150% (18 damage per pellet)
• Max Fall Off: 50% (6 damage per pellet)
• Pellet Count: 4
• Point Blank: 69-72
• Medium Range: 24-48
• Long Range: 6-12
• Mini-Crit: 16 per pellet
• Critical hit: 24 per pellet

Function Times

• Attack Interval: 0.64
• Reload: 1.25

Durp. Forgot me name. -- MistahFixIt 01:00, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

Additional notes and/or trivia:

• This is more or less double the damage of a Shotgun pellet.
• A pepperbox pistol or 'pepper gun' is any small handgun or pistol with multiple barrels fixed around a centre axis.
• Taunting with the Shortstop performs the Pistol taunt, not the Scattergun/FaN taunt. (Kinda obvious in retrospect, but w/e)

I've added some of these things to the page. seb26 [talk] 01:19, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

Animation and Ammunition

Some pictures from a slow motion examination. --Mechlord 16:00, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

• Ejecting long metal casings
• Fresh ammunition, rounded ends unlike a shotgun shell
• Quickload and shells fall down at end of reload.

Could the ammunition used be Rat-shot? Is this worth noting at all? --Mechlord 16:00, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

It's not a rat-shot. It only fires 4 bullets. (Rat-shots are lead shots, with multiple pellets.) D: Hostile Companion Cube ^Roar 23:13, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Each shot fires 4 pellets. It's definitely some kind of shotshell. Mechlord 01:32, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Someone put the rat-shot information in, but it did not fit at all where it was. I have removed it for now. --Mechlord 06:39, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

The ejected shells are also visible entering the weapon from below. I could get a picture. Neither movement can be seen without slowing the game down significantly. This is of course just the method they are using to swap the models. The "appearing ammo" bug maybe should not be in trivia.--Mechlord 00:30, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Speeds under slowing effects

I made my first wiki edit ever! Just whipped up some math, did a little testing in game with the velocity graph, and figured out exactly how slow various affected (effected?) classes would be I still haven't been able to test what happens if both natacha AND the shortstop hit somebody (whether the slow stacks, adds, multiplies, or just slows to either Natasha or Shortstop speed rather than both). Though I've studied english for a number of years, it is admittedly not my first language, so I'd appreciate it if you guys could proofread it. I also wasn't sure whether it should go where I put it, or under some other category. Naet 21:24, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Excellent work, Naet. Thanks a lot. Once I'm done my work, I'll put it all in a nice, shiny table and we'll all be happy with no worries as we sing in a field of flowers. Or, you know, just content. Your English seems great for being your second language, and you're certainly not alone in being multilingual here. --Firestorm

Oo pretty :D. I made some minor adjustments to the Notes category. Thank you! Naet 22:26, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

It's a good thing that I (not Shine) made the table, or I'd get people like Shine trying to take credit for the table that I (not Shine) created. --Firestorm 22:33, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

seriously, it was Shine that made the table, stupid ninja.

"Once I'm done my work, I'll put it all in a nice, shiny table"; clearly, you were outclassed.wav — Wind 22:36, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Would you have preferred that it be a firey table? --Firestorm 22:40, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Crit-a-cola?

Is it just me, or does the Crit-a-Cola not affect the Shortstop? A Sassy Dog 17:32, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

For me, the mini crits work fine, but the gun itself doesn't get the glow effect. DarthVella 11:23, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

The Crit-a-cola always changes me to the melee slot after I use it, plus the bullets don't have a glow skin either. A Sassy Dog 23:59, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

The switching to melee thing applies to me too, even though I have the Scattergun equipped. I think that's just a general bug. --Focusknock 10:27, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

They fixed it so now it goes to previous weapon, not just to melee after you use crit-a-cola Turtlebolt 10:09, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Design Basis

According to the creator the shortstop is based on a modified Remington Elliot, 4 shot. However after looking this up, it seems likely that the gun is an even combination of the COP 357 and the Remington Elliot. (Look at these together.) --Mechlord 22:42, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

I have added this to trivia, as it seemed very evident. --Mechlord 06:39, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Ammunition sharing

"The Shortstop will draw from the same ammo reserves as the normal Pistol if both are equipped."

Surely this warrants mention? --Mechlord 09:23, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Normal Pistol and Lugermorph. Just checked it myself. Unfortunately it was on the page, but somebody saw fit to delete it. --Focusknock 21:04, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

You deleted it and I reinstated it. It seems you are fine with this, so I have added the Lugermorph to this statement, check if it makes sense. (Hopefully we can assume that the Shortstop will be equipped.) --Mechlord 22:35, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Has it been confirmed that the weapon uses shotgun ammunition? As mentioned above, doesn't it share the reserve ammunition used by the pistol? Esquilax 23:46, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

The Shortstop uses pistol ammunition, as is detailed in the trivia section regarding its slot-change. Despite this, the Shortstop actually loads and fires shotshell-like ammunition. The statement regarding this should be fixed now. Sorry for any confusion. --Mechlord 23:53, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

That looks good, thanks. I'm just being obsessive ;). Esquilax 23:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

"Deals 100% more damage"?

Wait, you're telling me that 48 is 100% more damage than 60... Is there something I don't get??? AbeX300 03:09, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

It deals more damage per pellet not per shot,duh.User 101 13:53, 17 April 2012 (PDT)

Some stylistic concerns

Since it impacts gameplay, I believe its trait of sharing ammunition with the Pistol and the Lugermorph should be moved somewhere to the head. I also (personally) think the sentence that mentions that it fires four pellets from a single barrel should be integrated in the third paragraph, since as it stands now it looks kinda fugly, especially since other multi-barrelled weapons don't mention it (it doesn't have an effect on gameplay anyway).

Anyone else have any opinions on the subject? Hostile Companion Cube ^Roar 01:33, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

it shouldn't be moved to the head because the pistol and lugermorph don't have any other same characteristics bar that one. the integration with the third paragraph is not necessary seeing as its a paragraph based soley on explaining the ammo and singles it out for easier reading. To be honest it's just me but i see nothing wrong with it it doesnt look fugly to me at all - Lexar - talk 01:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

Shouldn't this go into the References page?

There is a trivia that says "The weapon's name is a reference to "shortstop", the fielding position between second and third base in the Scout's favorite sport, baseball." Don't you think that should go into the references? AbeX300 00:46, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

As well as here, maybe. -- Mechlord 00:47, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

Seems fine to me where it is at the moment. Magic Magician 07:54, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

Random Crit chance

Does the shortstop have a high crit chance? I feel like i get random crits more often than when i use the FAN. Turtlebolt 10:11, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Proof that the Shortstop was designed to be a scattergun

http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=73085

In the second post of the thread, which is the original concept, there is no pistol replacement other than the Mann Milk (Mad Milk) and if it were meant to replace the pistol, there would be an alternative firearm to replace the scattergun. — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Xephslayer (talk) • (contribs)

So it would still have Scattergun firing animations? maggosh 20:24, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

Did you read the thread? If not, I'll explain why it does not have the Scattergun Firing animations, because the little kids in the 1950's or somewhere around that time played with popcap guns, not scatterguns. Also, on post 20, Spetch describes how he wanted it to reload like the FaN, all shots at once, not to reload like the pistol. And I will reiterate what I said earlier, if the Shortstop would be the pistol replacement, then the Mad Milk would be left as his primary, and that would be impractical as a primary. Xephslayer 20:33, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

Okay, okay, mate, I believe you. Just testing your brain circuitry for kinks. No offense. maggosh 20:36, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

It's all good. Xephslayer 20:37, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

DPS

This weapon needs a DPS on it. Modulus365 05:03, 15 July 2011 (PDT)

Pardon my ignorance, but...what is a DPS? 05:51, 15 July 2011 (PDT)

Damage per second. Balladofwindfishes 06:58, 15 July 2011 (PDT)

Well each pellet does 12 damage, and the interval between each of the four shots is 0.36s. Adding the reloading time (1.01s) gives 48 damage over 2.45 seconds - a DPS of about 19.6 per pellet. » Cooper Kid (Blether · Contreebs) 18:37, 15 July 2011 (PDT)

Shared ammo reserves

I added this to the Bugs section and it was reverted, let's discuss it.

• While the Shortstop shares an ammo reserve with the Pistol, it does not share an ammo reserve with the Winger.

While it may seem like trivia, the fact that the stock pistol and winger are both technically pistols leads me to believe that it might not have been intentional. We have no firm way to deem it as intentional or unintentional; all we can do is try to get a hold of a TF team member for confirmation (which I can do). Regardless of the verdict, it should still be noted on the page somewhere. -- Psychopath 20:43, 8 August 2011 (PDT)

Does the Shortstop share ammo reserve with the Pocket Pistol? If so, that should be added to the article. VladtheInhaler 08:57, 28 June 2012 (PDT)

Crits too good?

My friend was talking about how they need to fix the shortstop since the gun dominates on all crit servers i say bull. The Shortstop is fine the way it is it doesn't need to be nerfed. Does it? — The preceding unsigned comment was added by MmmmphMmmmph (talk) • (contribs)

Please remember to sign your posts. Secondly, This topic would belong on the SPUF rather than here. This talk page is meant for discussing about the contents of the page itself. Ashes (talk) 16:28, 29 September 2013 (PDT)

What are the downsides to the new nerf?

+50?% increase in push damage when does this come into play? Justin Kayse (talk) 10:51, 28 February 2014 (PST)

To be more exact, The scout using a shortstop will take more Knockback than usual. So they fly further from explosions, airblasts, and bullet knockback force. Ashes (talk) 10:53, 28 February 2014 (PST)

Right, but doesn't that just make them more maneuverable? Ah, I can imagine it would hurt with a lot of spam. But isn't the Shortstop more of a sniper weapon anyway?

— The preceding unsigned comment was added by Justin Kayse (talk) • (contribs)

Its not really a "sniper weapon". It may have a smaller spread, but it still requires that you be in mid range for the damage to be effective. Also if you have any "general" questions or clarifications for things such as this, just jump on the IRC. Its a little easier to answer there. Ashes (talk) 10:56, 28 February 2014 (PST)

Clearing up "Bonus Healing" topic

So is it confirmed that only health packs are affected by the bonus healing when the Shortstop is out? I tested it with Dispensers on tr_walkway and it seems like it does increase health replenished with you hold it out. Archrelico "Mexi" 11:14, 26 April 2016 (PDT)

I asked Karma Charger to do the comparison, he said that Medi gun and Dispenser does not affect by Shortstop bonus healing. I can ask him to upload it if you want to. Rikka Takanashi (talk) • (contributions) 07:37, 26 April 2016 (PDT)

Oh no, that's enough reason for me. Archrelico "Mexi" 11:14, 26 April 2016 (PDT)

Shortstop Shove damage

I tested out the new shove mechanic and found that killing someone with a shove counts as them suiciding.
I came up with a theory that this is because the shove causes the enemy to deal 1 hp damage to themselves instead of the scout dealing it.
Is there any way of testing this? 06:10, 9 July 2016 (PDT)

This should be Scout's damage instead of environment's damage. I don't sure how to test it, but it seem like it apply damage to player via some way, I think. Rikka Takanashi (talk) • (contributions) 06:23, 9 July 2016 (PDT)

Well if it counted as the scout doing the damage, it'd count as his kill though, right? 19:47, 9 July 2016 (PDT)

Is the shove applicable to crits and mini-crits? { <3 SpriteFan3 © } (talk) 07:47, 17 July 2016 (PDT)

The shove doesn't get any boost from mini-crits nor crits, them game doesn't even try to factor them in. The Editors Apprentice (talk) 10:20, 29 July 2017 (PDT)

My test was to damage a Bot Soldier with two shots with a Short Stop and repeated shoved it into a corner until the Soldier died. When Soldier died, I was credited with the kill (no suicide for the Bot). @Bojjob: Did you kill the target or shove it into a pitfall? Mikado282 (talk) 12:05, 30 July 2017 (PDT)

Does the Shortstop still do shove damage? I just tested it out against a bot, and while I could do normal damage with my other weapons and even kill the bot, using the Shortstop's shove seemed to deal no damage at all. My damage count wasn't updated, no number appeared saying -1, nothing. It's just like an airblast. ⇒ Anyar (talk/contributions/giveaway) 08:15, 27 August 2017 (PDT)

What does this line mean?

"Critical hits are delivered in a manner similar to pistols, granting 2 seconds of critical hits, as opposed to regular shotguns."

Is this for random crits? Aren't random crits 2 seconds for all weapons, shotguns and pistols too? ⇒ Anyar (talk/contributions/giveaway) 13:21, 28 August 2017 (PDT)

Modified Ratshot?

There are so many visual inconsistencies with this gun but I see no real way those are shotgun shells coming out of it. Have we considered custom bullets like the Heavy has? It appears his bullets break into four, and we accept that his are custom... what if scout uses the same bullets, maybe at a smaller caliber, in the shortstop? ♥ShyBandit♥

Hi there, please sign your comments using ~~~~.

It seems that it's indeed not shotgun shells. If you make your viewmodel to around 150 you can see it's just regular bullets.
GrampaSwood (talk) 16:41, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

Yes I am aware of that, that is why I made the comment! I was wondering if anyone has considered that, and if someone agreed with me I would try to propose an edit.
ShyBandit (talk) 03:12, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

The creator's statement that the Shortstop was modeled on the Remington Elliot 4 shot is only about half accurate to what they finally submitted.

• The statement was early in the Shortstop development.
• The creator shortly after stated that they were at that moment considering 10 different prototypes.
• The final model does reflect influence of both the Remington Elliot 4 shot (trigger and grip) and the COP .357 Derringer (barrels), which coincidentally had a .410 shot scattergun version; but, the exposed hammer references some other unknown gun.

1. I agree that the weapon ejects brass cartridges; not the red shotgun shells we are used to seeing from the other Scatterguns (although brass shotgun shells exist).
2. The Shortstop was originally submitted as a pistol, firing bullets, not shot.
3. The Shortstop does not share ammo with the pistol (both ammo count down independently), but it does seem to share the cartridge model.
4. The submitted model had rimmed cartridges, consistent with what you see in the ejection. In fact, these are not the Heavy's spend rounds, but unfired approximately 9mm magnum cartridges. (With the tapered bullet shape on the end, the same magnum model is used to represent Sniper's spent 30-06 shells.)
5. It is only to be presumed that Valve chose to modify the submission to be a Scattergun replacement, not a pistol replacement, changing the pistol bullet attack to Scattergun pellets. But, ... Valve kept the brass casings, because the existing 12-ish/10-ish gauge shotgun shells wouldn't fit the ejection animation of the model.
6. Ratshot == small shot
7. .410 shot == capable of 4 x 000 shot, which is broadly consistent with the shot effects of other shotguns in the game (10 or more large pellets).
8. We have no indication of any creator or Valve knowledge that there were .410 shotgun versions of the COP .357 Derringer. It happens that .410 shells are about the same diameter as the .357 magnum casings, but they are about twice as long, and when loaded with 000 shot were meant for killing two-legged rats.
9. Was there ever a .357 Magnum casing loaded with four 000 pellets?

I deleted the last Trivium ("The Shortstop appears to use custom tooled cartridges that are quite similar to the Heavy's signature rounds, firing 4 projectiles per spent bullet.") because

• the ejected shells are not Heavy’s spent casings.
• the ejected shells still have the bullet in place, the probably are meant to represent unfired .357 Magnum the same model represents spent casings from Snipers 30-06 Garand.
• "firing 4 projectiles per spent bullet", is mechanics, not Trivia.
• We also have no indication that either the creator or Valve gave any consideration that the ejected casings be accurate to the specific shotgun action of the Shortstop.
• It is unnecessary to rationalize some reason for keeping the magnum casings.
• Whether we need to actually mention the brass casings is a separate question. We don’t mention that Sniper’s Garand ejects unfired magnum cartridges.

M I K A D O 282 ⊙⊙⊙⊙⊙⊙ ⊙⊙ ⊙⊙ (talk) (Help Wanted!) 18:19, 28 June 2020 (UTC)

Should we add in that there is 1 Vintage Shortstop or is it just a minor thing

Hi so i saw that there is one Vintage Shortstop on backback.tf should we add this in?Ilikethelugeranddemopan (talk) 00:39, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

It's likely from Steam Support, and we don't note that.
GrampaSwood (talk) 09:29, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

Could we get a first person image for the shove?

Just a thought, I feel like this is something that should be added. SimpleAnim (talk) 17:44, 25 May 2021 (UTC)SimpleAnim

Since it's an animation, it's hard to get it in a single image. I don't think it's really necessary as it should also be in the demonstration and not every animation has to be shown off.
GrampaSwood (talk) 18:57, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

The preceding discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it.