Team Fortress Wiki:Discussion/Archive 11

The following discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

wiki cap voting?

When do we vote for who gets the wiki cap because i wanna vote? THE3STOOGES 23:11, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

Only mods / admins / bureaucrats are allowed to vote. Since their discussions are logged into an IRC, you can see the staff in action if you want to. However, you cannot interfere with the process with your votes. Saw-ry.  –  Epic Eric (T | C) 23:23, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

BOB SAGET. THE3STOOGES 23:29, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

I nominate SilverHammer for a Wiki Cap! Mr. Snrub 04:34, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Oh, Mr. Snrub! I'm touched... but surely, there are those more deserving than I! SilverHammer 04:35, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

This is old but, I would vote for Balladofwindfishes Violencejr123 00:01, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

Promo_nav template variant

Thoughts?

Besides, I'm afraid we're running out of group/lists. Is 20 the max limit or am I mistaken?--Kid Of The Century 14:01, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

 Support Very nice design and categorizing. I like it! - Grand-O-Rand  · (Talk) 19:27, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

 Support Good idea. Nero123 (talk | contribution) 19:29, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

 Support I like it. If we need even more categories, we can divide games into "pre-order" and "achievement" if need be. Balladofwindfishes 19:30, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

 Is good. maggosh 21:25, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

 Support Looks good.  –  Ohyeahcrucz [T][C] 21:26, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

 Yesh! I always though there was something wrong since the Japan Carity Pack was in a promotion template.

 Support I've always thought it odd having the 2 together. Bout time someone bought it up.---- No-oneSpecial (talk | contribs) 09:14, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

 Support Looks pretty good to me. Jason707 (talk | contribution) 1:54am, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

 Support I can see we're not banging rocks together here. 00:55, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

 Support Oh, hell yes! real_alien (T/C) 20:06, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

Changes submitted. Thanks all for the support. :) --Kid Of The Century 16:18, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

New weapon

Since i don't know where to ask, i'll do it here: is this a new weapon? -- zFn (Talk) 17:21, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Most likely, yes. Since we have no info on it, there's no place to put it on the Wiki -- Firestorm 17:37, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Oh, I've got a place for it... Heh heh heh... SilverHammer 06:18, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

From Facepunch: "it's the "overdose" syringe gun out of ym's poly entry that has been leaked.". So there you have it. Seems we might be seeing the Overdose getting released soon. 404 User Not Found 01:09, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

It's an entirely different gun. It looks a lot like the Medi gun seen at the end of Meet the Director, so it's possible that it's a Valve-made Medic set. You can see the Overdose here. Please do not make an article titles the Overdose, as we have no confirmation of it being released in game. Just speculation. SilverHammer 01:22, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

No, really? I never would have guessed to not make an article about it *eye roll*. Gimme a break, I'm not some complete noob at editing Wiki's and following procedures, lol. But seriously, I was only quoting what was said on FP, and even so, other people replied to that post saying "it doesn't look like it unless it's an updated, unreleased version of the model". I'm gonna go out on a limb here and personally guarantee that the icon is for the Overdose. 404 User Not Found 01:27, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

No need to be so mad, guy. They're pretty damn visually different, and there's a good chance that the end of the Saxxy's will bring in some kind of second coming for the Medic Update. However, this syringe gun and YM's Overdose are vastly different. You shouldn't go around stating things are facts when they're just rumors. SilverHammer 01:39, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Also, it wasn't "leaked". Valve deliberately posted the image. Even as far as to edit the gun in to an image of an employe's backpack. It was definitely on purpose. SilverHammer 01:40, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

I can guarantee you that neither the Medigun from Meet the Director nor the syringe gun from the blog is from YM. -- En Ex _(talk) 01:42, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

I'd love to know where I stated that what I said was a "fact". I was merely posting what I had read on FP, and the general consensus is it's gonna be the Overdose. And yes, I know it wasn't "leaked", that's what a poster on FP said, not me. So thank you for trying to "correct" me, Silver, but it's unnecessary. 404 User Not Found 02:42, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

it's the overdose page on the weapon here on the tf2 wiki http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Overdose --Giraffey 14:59, 30 June 2011 (PDT)

"From Facepunch: "it's the "overdose" syringe gun out of ym's poly entry that has been leaked.". So there you have it." Not only does that sound like a fact, you specifically stated you were directly quoting someone... In fact, you JUST said it again. "that's what a poster on FP said, not me." You stand corrected? SilverHammer 03:13, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Remote Item Schema Update

I made {{item server}} to be used just like {{undocumented}} in update history sections. It currently says "[Item server update]" but I think the wording can be changed if it's confusing. The current words used are "Remote Item Schema Update" but I think 'server' is a little more accurate, but others may have different thoughts. As there's nothing wrong with the idea as a template I'm going to start rolling it out on pages, as we can always come back to fix the wording.

Opinions? seb26 23:31, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

I have a feeling more server side updates will be happening now that it's easy for Valve to do. So a template would work just fine. It's formally called the Item Schema though, which is why we were using that. Balladofwindfishes 23:33, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

Crafting recipes on hat pages?

Similar to how we have the token recipes on weapons. We should list the 3 refined = random hat, 2 hats = random hat, or the 4 refined + class token = random hat on the pages they work for. We do this for weapons, why not with hats? Balladofwindfishes 02:31, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

 Support C. Townshend 09:33, 7 July 2011 (PDT)

Use of 'the'

Following the discussion in the IRC, the problem is whether the prefix 'the' should be included in the body of item pages.

An example of the prefix in use: The Alien Swarm Parasite is a promotional item for all classes.

And without the prefix: Alien Swarm Parasite is a promotional item for all classes.

Note that this will be applied to all item pages. So just replace Alien Swarm Parasite with hat or weapon or any other name to see the effect.

Please discuss whether the prefix stays or goes. It's a simple matter of what reads the best gramatically.--Focusknock 11:50, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

 Oppose May as well get my piece out there. It goes against the style guide, and isn't necessary to lead the article. Alien Swarm Parasite is the subject of the article. Let's pretend this article is about "Subject".

"Subject" "The Subject is an item."

You wouldn't see this sort of thing on, say, Wikipedia.

Use throughout the article? Yeah, that's just structurally correct. It just doesn't look as nice at the very start. SilverHammer 23:47, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Actually, on Wikipedia, they do use "the." See Glock, AK-47, and various other guns with proper names (as in every weapon on this site) Balladofwindfishes 23:56, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

That is only guns what about other things? Oppose THE3STOOGES 22:58, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Well... most of out articles are guns, or other items with proper names (like hats). Balladofwindfishes 23:01, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

 Comment I don't think this can be standardized in the first place anyway. You want to place "the" in front of items such as "Ze Goggles", "Your Eternal Reward" and "Bill's Hat"? On the other hand, Valve puts "the" in front of a lot of names such as "the Force-A-Nature", "the Wrangler" and "the Hound Dog". In my opinion, the question to "the" or not to "the" should be judged per item. -- Hefaistus - talk 23:32, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

 Oppose doing anything, how most pages are at the moment is, really, just fine... let's stop trying to standardize everything for 'consistency'... seb26 06:52, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

Since we have to retake the class page images anyway (BLU team!)

Since everyone but Pyro and Spy had a fire overlay, the class images need to be retaken. Let me jump on this opportunity to suggest we finally implement BLU team images on the class pages. It's as simple as pushing a button and taking 2 images instead of one! This way they will be consistent and it'll finally give us an excuse to do something we have been talking about since early March. Balladofwindfishes 17:53, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, a great idea! ARTYOM 17:59, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

 Support Really, why not? Shane Alvarado 18:06, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

 Support -Shine 18:01, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

 Support Provided Tabber coding is used. maggosh 18:04, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

 Support  –  Ohyeahcrucz [T][C] 18:07, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

so have these been made yet? Theharribokid 08:23, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

Promo_nav template not fitting

Yesterday, it was brought up that there are too many promo items now, and that they wouldn't all fit on the nav template anymote. Not sure whether this was resolves or not, but I thought I'd toss this up here anyway. Make several promo navs, one for 2009-2010, one for 2011, and so on. Drastic size reduction. Thoughts? SilverHammer 23:53, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

 Oppose. Makes stuff hard to find, and the nav was fixed.  –  Ohyeahcrucz [T][C] 23:55, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

I don't know if is just me, but it doesn't appear aligned to me, there's a quite noticeable gap between Witcher 2 and Total War: Shogun 2. I know that isn't a great solution but would it hurt set a fixed width for both groupstyles?--Kid Of The Century 14:55, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

Implementing {{Random_class}} on all-class hats infobox images?

Kreafan came up with this idea on the IRC channel, to implement {{Random class}} on the infobox images, instead of using a single image for the infobox. It would require some image moves to the correct class names, though. Agree/Disagree?  –  Ohyeahcrucz [T][C] 20:46, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

 Support There's no reason not to use this. In fact, I'm already editing some of the infoboxes that don't need renaming (I was before you posted this talk) Balladofwindfishes 20:48, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

I have no strong feelings one way or the other. Just a Gigolo - (talk) 20:50, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

 Info I have done this page, then showed it to Pilk, and he made Templates for it. Thanks to him! kreafan 20:56, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

 Disagree. And this is why. maggosh 21:05, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

I don't see anything wrong with that.  –  Ohyeahcrucz [T][C] 21:08, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

 Comment We'll just have to crop images better. Besides, that's a bad image that is marked for improvement. Balladofwindfishes 21:10, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Crop? Are you sure you know what that means? maggosh 21:13, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

We have to make sure the hat images don't get too tall. Besides that, that image is poor anyway Balladofwindfishes 21:14, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

 Disagree I'm just gonna go with no. It's kinda like those hoop earrings you look at and think "Why the fuck not?" but then they make you look real slutty. You know what I'm saying? It's a cool idea, just kinda bleh to me. If it gets more support and happens anyway, I wouldn't mind at all. SilverHammer 21:20, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Eh... sounds like an OK idea if the filenames are already the same but I think it's pointless to start moving images everywhere for a feature that would most likely go unnoticed the whole time...  Disagree for me... seb26 21:37, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

 Comment I had a look at the files, and only the Demoman and Engy files may have problems. Everything else is either hatname_class or class_hatname. And actually a surprising amount of Demo and Engy files are called Demoman and Engineer (which is what the template uses) Balladofwindfishes 21:49, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

fire overlay

A lot of pictures have to be replaced because they have a slight fire overlay on them. when you go the Model viewer there is no way to make the overlay go away.

The overlay isn't that notistable so why not just ignore it? — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Wariopunk (talk) • (contribs)

It is possible to remove the fire overlay by editing the material files or replacing the overlay's VTF file with a blank texture. On some images it is barely noticeable, and you're right those ones don't really need replacing. Many of them do have a highly visible overlay though. Also, please remember to sign your comments using ~~~~. -- Pilk _(talk) 11:18, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

See footnote 1. There's a mod to replace the fire overlay. Balladofwindfishes 12:30, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

umofficial tf2 wiki

Can anyone tell me why there making pages for Cloths. THE3STOOGES 23:29, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

• What the unnofficial wiki does is their business, so who cares? Nihilus0(contribs) 23:31, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
  • It's a spambot, something we dont have to worry about here. --Piemanmoo 23:40, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

oh thanks :). THE3STOOGES 23:45, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

• • • It's a group of people who make money from advertising all over their who can blame the for wanting to make money --Giraffey 15:04, 30 June 2011 (PDT)

Where is the player Fire overlay in the game files?

I'm trying to delete it so I can improve all the images with a fire Overlay

Anyone help? C. Townshend 16:48, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

/materials/effects/tiledfire Balladofwindfishes 16:43, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Turkish translation

TF2 has a Turkish translation but it looks like we don't. Is there a reason why it hasn't been done, or is it simply because of the former lack of translators? User:Dreamon is willing to translate. Adding support to Turkish probably needs changes to lots of templates and the sidebar and some WindBOT scripts etc., so I'd like to make sure all of that is OK before moving that gear up~ — Wind 22:00, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

If this actions really required by TF2 community, we should do it! Dreamon is able to be a first Turkish localization moderator. - Grand-O-Rand  · (Talk) 22:07, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

If enough Turkish & English speakers are interested in translating then we'd be happy to allow for /tr pages and whatnot. The important thing is that there are multiple people who are actively editing and keeping pages up to date, otherwise it's way too much work for one guy and then we end up with a heap of old pages that are of little use to anyone. But otherwise if you can find enough people then we'd be happy to have Turkish pages :) seb26 05:46, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

I believe that I may be of use in this matter, I am studying at Foreign Language Teaching but my aim is more towards translation. I think that many Turkish players could benefit from the wiki through Turkish localization. MillenniumDH 17:48, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Hey guys, I'm one of the Turkish Steam Translation Server moderators. The community wants the Turkish Wiki done a lot so I think it's time to get to work here. Count me in. (: --Desertboys 23:22, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

Turkish translation support has been added. For starting translators and editors there is a guide at Help:Language translation. seb26 08:13, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

I got an friend who is a user here who is Turkish that needs to be getting abit shaped up, so ill teach him abit and then we will see if he is approvable :3 The Noble Scout _(T/C) 21:40, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Language switching templates for trivia, bugs, see also etc.

I think it would be nice to have language switching templates like {{see also}} or {{bugs}} replacing the common headings. This way, you don't have to translate the headings for every new page. Also, you have consistent translations of the headings (there are several translation, which are all correct but depend on who translated the page. I prefer a unified pattern.)
Example: {{see also}} would be == See also == for english pages, == Siehe auch == for german pages, == Voir aussi == for french pages etc.
SackZement 08:41, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

Item Pages "Unused Content" Sections

Recently there has been some dispute whether or not some unused content like paint textures or sound files is considered trivia or a bug. In my opinion I think it's neither, so I suggest simply adding an Unused Content section to the pages. Lets call it to a vote. Vote  Yes or  No. 23:53, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

An entire section sounds overkill, put it in the Trivia section IMHO. --CruelCow ^(talk) 00:28, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

I'm for it  Yes - Bpc908 01:13, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

 Yes I don't see why not. I am happy for someone to come and explain why not, but until then, I fully support it. PlausibleSarge 07:48, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

 Agree Let's do it. There's a lot of unused content specific to items (like the Scottish Resistance for example) and sticking it into trivia (it is does not exactly follow the trivia guidelines) would not be a good place to fit it. I also propose we place it under the trivia section maybe. Either that, or in between bugs and trivia. Balladofwindfishes 12:13, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

 Yep.avi definitely not a bug, but it could probably be put in the trivia section. --Cooper Kid (Blether · Contreebs) 14:56, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

 Comment Are they really trivia though? This feels a lot like when we used to have bugs in the trivia section. Balladofwindfishes 15:50, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

I don't think they fit as trivia, so I vote  Yes for adding the new section.  –  Ohyeahcrucz [T][C] 15:52, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

 Nope maggosh 22:12, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

Well a bunch of yeses and one nope (which was done after I had already started anyway), so I went ahead and added it to every article with unused content. I think I got them all Balladofwindfishes 23:49, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

You're probably gonna kill me but I'd have said  Nope to this, because in almost all cases it's going to be a one-line section that takes way more space on the page that it needs to be taking D: — Wind 04:08, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

Most of what I did was moving trivia out of trivia into this new section, so the text was already there anyway. We just never really had a concrete policy in place for putting unused content specific to items on a page (since it should be noted). Balladofwindfishes 22:00, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

Notice for russian editors -- Викификатор

Notice for russian editors

Уважаемые редакторы русского раздела! Я портировал из русской википедии скрипт для автоматической викификации, позволяющий оформлять статью, расставляя правильные кавычки, тире и переносы. Приглашаю всех к тестированию. Для того, чтобы добавить скрипт к себе нужно отредактировать страницу Вашего персонального JS и добавить туда следующую строку: importScript("User:Daniil/wikify.js");. После этого на каждой странице редактирования статей появится такая кнопка.

Внимание: Викификатор предназначен для использования исключительно на страницах русского раздела вики.

Спасибо за внимание, надеюсь, скрипт окажется полезным для вас, Daniil 14:15, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

Насколько я знаю, скриптами могут пользоваться только админы--Nik9990 Talk | Cont 15:05, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

Нет, это не так. Устанавливать свои собственные JS-скрипты, также называемые пользовательскими, может любой зарегистрировавший пользователь. Ограничение прав установлено только на установление общих скриптов (выполняются у всех пользователей) и, конечно, на запросы к API вики, которые, насколько я знаю, могут выполнять только администраторы и боты. Для того, чтобы установить пользовательский скрипт, нужно отредактировать страницу User:<ваше имя пользователя>/valve.js (ссылка на эту страницу также доступна в настройках), вставив нужный код, или просто перейти по этой ссылке. Для применения изменений не забудьте отчистить кеш вашего браузера. К слову, у меня все работает нормально. --Daniil 15:22, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

Всё работает. Это достойно переноса в страницу переводчиков. Молодец! - Grand-O-Rand  · (Talk) 15:10, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

Большое спасибо! В ближайшее время (предположительно, завтра) собираюсь немного улучшить скрипт. В планах добавить проверку языкового раздела для предотвращения викификации скриптом статей, написанных не на русском языке. Пользователь будет предупрежден, если он редактирует статью не на русском языке. --Daniil 15:22, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

In future, talks had in this section should be in English guys. You have a discussions page for translators where this conversation could have been had Team_Fortress_Wiki:Translation_progress/ru. BiBi 23:49, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

Hats Added During the April 7, 2011 Patch Trivia

I noticed on the Pain Train article, we mention that the weapon dropped randomly despite not being in the game. Every hat added during the April 7, 2011 Patch also did this. They were added to the API and drop system hours before being added to the game. Should we add this as trivia to all of those hats? Balladofwindfishes 23:48, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

 Nope maggosh 23:49, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

 Neutral  –  Ohyeahcrucz [T][C] 23:52, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

 Oppose Probably shouldn't even be on the weapons. Mar 23:55, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

 Comment Now that I think about it, maybe we should just remove it from the 3 articles it's on. It's not really that important. Whatever we decide, it has to apply to them both because it's the same situation. Balladofwindfishes 23:56, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

It looks like through both this discussion and IRC, it was decided to just remove the trivia entirely. Balladofwindfishes 00:13, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

For the record, this rare occurrence could be noted in the Item drop system page. (I mean just a single entry, not listing every time it happened.)--Kid Of The Century 16:26, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

Is it possible to get a Wiki Hat without being bilingual

If you look, everyone who has won the Wiki Hat just translates pages, and I have no clue how to translate but I want the Wiki Hat Meow 01:08, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

Si Senor Balladofwindfishes 01:09, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

Well, it happened in the past, and it might possibly happen in the future.  –  Epic Eric (T | C) 01:13, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

And it still does happen. The reason you're seeing a bunch of translators earning the cap now, is because the translation project picked up steam a little while after this wiki was formed. Hence, the English editors earned their caps first, and now the translators are. Equal rewards are given to translators and editors alike, one is not favoured over the other. -- Firestorm 20:18, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

I have never touched a wiki page that isn't english.--Focusknock 08:19, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

Unused Content and its place in the article

This - the section as a whole - should be placed above Trivia. Below it makes it look tacked-on, and it seems like an afterthought, not to mention putting it below Trivia makes it look less important, when it should be vice-versa. Imagine the article and its sections like a series of sieves; The larger, more important bits stay near the top, while Trivia lies in the water pan, generally bits of information that don't fit elsewhere. What I'm trying to say is, Trivia sections tend to be the last information-bearing section of an article. It's simply an efficient flow of the article's information, and unfortunately, putting the Unused Content section below Trivia interrupts that flow. I thank you all for considering. maggosh 20:01, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, makes sense. -- OluapPlayer _(t) 20:03, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

I agree completely. -- - _{(talk | contribs)} -- 20:08, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

Okay that's fine. You can look through my recent contribs to see which articles have it added to it, and switch them, or I'll do it later, whatever. Balladofwindfishes 20:10, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

 Comment And done, there. I hope that's alright, stuck it under bugs. If not, you can put it where you want :) (or maybe have a bot do it) Balladofwindfishes 22:46, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

I'm in. So, should I start moving the content on Polish pages? real_alien (T/C) 11:28, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

I moved the english pages already, so I don't think there'd be a problem moving the polish version Balladofwindfishes 12:24, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

Inconsistencies

I've noticed several inconsistencies in English articles, which I find mildly annoying.

• Periods (or lack of them): Mainly in patch notes - some of them end with a period, the other don't. Example - Hats (scroll down to update history)
• Capital - non-capital letters: In an article about Teleporters, those buildings are written both with apital and non-cap letters
• Numerals: Again, patch notes/update history. In some cases there's "added nine hats", then afer few lines "added 9 hats"

I have no idea whether this is deliberate or not, but it kinda bugs me. real_alien (T/C) 14:50, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

Random Page?

Hi, I'm not sure if it's just me who gets this, but whenever I try to use the "random page" feature, it seems to always randomize the language too. When I go back to any other page, it's fine. Can we make it so it remembers your language with that? Ericson666 16:55, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

No, it's not you, it's how it works. real_alien (T/C) 16:59, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

IIRC, a fix has been sent to Valve, but they have yet to implement it. — nVis  06:37, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

As it is now, the random page feature is nearly worthless because of the language issue. And didn't I start this topic here? Just wondering. {{SUBST:User:Cranberry Jerk/Sig}} 18:16, 28 June 2011 (PDT)

Poker Night Nav

I made a template for all the Poker Night at the Inventory items, and want to know if I can apply it. There to be a nav for it, but it got removed because it wasn't up to wiki standards. I believe my revamped template, however, is up to par. --Stevoisiak 23:29, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

Quality wasn't the issue, all promo navs were merged into one. — nVis  06:37, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

Paint preview grid

Just an idea I had running though my head, for comparison sake, and since there is room at the bottom of the grid per painted item, could the paint examples also include the unpainted version. It would be easier to see it there (for example, how is the RED version different than Team Spirit) instead of trying to eyeball it against the side bar, where the hat is in a different orientation / lighting condition? --Org 04:39, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

 Support This has been suggested and scrapped before on account of being redundant, but I think it's worth doing now that styles are in. For an example, Googly Gazer has the default-color images split in two parts of the page, the infobox and the gallery. Adding unpainted versions to the grid would make things more consistent. — nVis  06:37, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

Further example to support what you said nVis, Triboniophorus Tyrannus doesn't have a reference picture at all. --Org 06:47, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

 Support Sounds cool. Shane Alvarado 17:10, 29 June 2011 (PDT)

Weapon tables on class pages tied to the new Blog

The new blog's class previews have a direct link ("View all <class> weapons") to the "Weapons" section on each class' page, and some of them are kind of messy.

Should we discuss a visual improvement?

Should we adopt a simpler wording for infos? For example, values like 25%/50% are fine IMO, but such as "78%" sounds overcomplicated and confusing.

What about a "semi-protected" table? I mean simply a unprotected template, just to discourage a bit 2-seconds edits. --Kid Of The Century 07:47, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

I disagree with the notion that 78% sounds messy, however I do think the class weapon pages need cleanup. There is a lot of redundancy and non-consistency with percentages. Only percentages should be shown, so instead of saying two-thirds (66%) it should just say 66%, and instead of saying 2 (20%) more pellets per shot, it should just say 20%. It might be worth just making all of the info identical to what's in the in-game item attribute list, rather than add every possible attribute to their info box here. If people want to know in-depth about a particular weapon, they can just click on the link to it. For now I'm just going to go through and change it so that the numbers are consistently percentages, I'll wait to see if there's consensus before doing a bigger change like making them all the same as their in-game attribute lists. Rainbow Dash 16:13, 23 June 2011 (PDT)

Update Blog wiki page

Since the TF2 Blog has a new design, how about we change the wiki page to sute the changes? C. Townshend 08:44, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

 Nope 21:25, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

We may or may not have something prepared. — Wind 21:27, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

We may or may not update the main page when no bad trivia is added for a period of 7 days -- Firestorm 21:28, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

We may or may not be giants. maggosh 21:31, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

We may or may not first wait for Half Life 2: Episode 3 to be released. -- Hefaistus - talk 21:33, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

Meet The Team and Videos merge

Nice and sweet, I think the Meet The Team page and Videos page should be deleted and merged in to one big Movies article, with all Meet The Team and Video redirects redirecting to it. Right now, Videos is a stub. Not only would this give Videos the bulk increase it needs, but we could set it up in a style similar to the new Movies section on the blog. That's like three doves with one stone, or something. SilverHammer 22:29, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

 Support. Why not? - Grand-O-Rand  · (Talk) 23:00, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

I put a little demonstration of the page together. User:SilverHammer/Movies SilverHammer 02:32, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

New {{set}} template

Today TFWiki realised, that there is more, than one set for each class, and thus, old {{set}} format is unacceptable. And today i changed this template to use set names, instead of class names, but this caused ALL used templates to broke.

With {{set|class=Scout}} you will have:

Main article: Item sets

The Special Delivery
	Shortstop Mad Milk Holy Mackerel Milkman
Effect	Leave a Calling Card on your victims

But with {{set|The Special Delivery}} you will have:

Main article: Item sets

The Special Delivery
	Shortstop Mad Milk Holy Mackerel Milkman
Effect	Leave a Calling Card on your victims

So, fix this everywhere you see it, and discuss this change here. DrAkcel ^{(T | C)} 10:50, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

How about instead defaulting the class name to the first one released? That way we are future proof without having to change every instance. --CruelCow ^(talk) 13:47, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

ths will not work, since i changed the whole code of the template, and now it don't need set|set=blablabla, it works with |set|blablabla. But this have broken compability with old templates. This happens =( DrAkcel ^{(T | C)} 19:52, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

Taunt kills

The Decapitation page opener is getting crowded. I suggest the info box on the right be changed, so it lists the weapons the taunt is equipped to instead of the slot. There's more than one weapon per slot, and that implies that it can be used by any melee weapon. SilverHammer 18:17, 22 June 2011 (PDT)

Advanced Weaponiser

I don't know what the general feeling is, but I don't think "this weapon shares similar attributes to X weapon in the Advanced Weaponiser." is viable trivia. Should that sort of thing be left alone, or should get get rid of them? Maybe put one of those edit warnings that says Advanced Weaponiser is not trivia? I could see something about it being added to the Advanced Weaponiser page, but it just feels like it shouldn't be trivia. Agree/disagree? SilverHammer 23:41, 22 June 2011 (PDT)

 Agree with reserve: If the weapon was lifted straight from the AW with untouched stats (e.g. Endless Carnage v.1/Back Scratcher) I believe it worths a note on the trivia. On the other hand, weapons with similar or partial attributes (e.g. Gentle Manne's Olde Firecannone/Detonator) do not. --Kid Of The Century 06:22, 23 June 2011 (PDT)

 Agree (Sorry, I completely read your post wrong, Silver). I actually did state this in the Facepunch thread for AW. Trivia of this nature should remain on the AW page, and not spill into the actual weapon articles. This whole discussion just kinda reminded me of Mecha's post on Facepunch, where he stated: "aw yeahhhhhhhh another AW weapon in official TF2! Now we just observe as AW gets no credit whatsoever and the Wiki refusing to acknowledge the similarities". But yeah, I gotta say keep the AW-related trivia on the actual AW article. 404 User Not Found 08:41, 24 June 2011 (PDT)

Streamlining the Update Navs

At the moment, we have 3 formats for update navs. We have:

Weapons seperated into classes with logos Template:ÜberUpdateNav

Weapons seperated into classes without logos Template:WarUpdateNav

And no seperation at all Template:AustralianChristmasNav

The last one is the most common of them all, with most update navs having it. What one do you think we should have, just so we can stream line it?

---

No-oneSpecial (talk | contribs) 02:32, 24 June 2011 (PDT)

Beta Weapons

Should the Medic/Snipers items, along with the detonator be removed or moved to released weapons in Beta Weapons? Flamedrac0 16:28, 25 June 2011 (PDT)

tf2wiki.net/wiki/Main_Page ?

Is this wiki affilated with that one?

Both wikis share various templates, images, artcicle text, and other stuff. In fact, I thought they were the same site until I noticed the urls were different.

Have you ever thought of merging the two? It's rather confusing to have two large wikis on the same subject. Jabberwock xeno 11:01, 26 June 2011 (PDT)

That's the old Wiki. We don't care much for that Wiki, as we have this one to care about now :P As you can tell, that wiki is missing images, links, etc. 404 User Not Found 13:15, 26 June 2011 (PDT)

Also the old wiki is run by a guy whose only interest is generating ad revenue from being the top hit in Google searches – meanwhile the rest of the site is overrun by spam pages and outdated crap olol. I removed the link in the header cos I don't really think they deserve any traffic seb26 14:10, 26 June 2011 (PDT)

Well, if thats true, he's damn effective at it, the first 7 links for the search "team fortress 2 wiki" and "tf2 wiki" show that site, not this one.

Is there anything you can do to make it clear that that wiki is outdated?

We had a similar issue back when the Halo wiki moved to a new address, and so we put a notice on the old address that the wiki had moved. We also had a little FAQ about what would be going on with the adress now that we had moved, etc: http://halo.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Fate_of_this_Wiki_and_what_you_can_do_about_it!&t=20110301174743 Jabberwock xeno 15:36, 26 June 2011 (PDT)

We tried, but the admin still over there is not cooperative. He will revert everything about it (we've tried). It will take a while until they fall off the Google listings, but yeah. It's a sad state of things :( — Wind 15:48, 26 June 2011 (PDT)

Well, that sounds pretty bad. Plus, our logo is infinitely more attractive. Shane Alvarado 17:19, 29 June 2011 (PDT)

Auto collapse on navs

As we keep getting more and more items in the game, nav templates are becoming longer and longer and with most pages averaging 3 navs, I think it might be a good idea to look into adding auto collapse onto several templates, such as the promo nav. At this point, some pages are even more nav then actual info (with Lumbricus Lid, for example, the navs start almost immediately after the infobox ends). I might be biased though as when I edit alongside show preview, I have to constantly scroll past these navs or collapse them all. What do you guys think? -- Hefaistus - talk 14:22, 26 June 2011 (PDT)

We got something prepared. Just waiting on the server traffic to clear up a bit before pooshing it — Wind 14:41, 26 June 2011 (PDT)

Alright, thanks for the heads up. It's looking good, by the way. -- Hefaistus - talk 15:03, 26 June 2011 (PDT)

I agree, that's a purdy nav :D 404 User Not Found 15:17, 26 June 2011 (PDT)

Design changes to the Vocal Response pages

Recently, I undertook some work and experimented with the layouts and design for the Voice Responses. A test run can be seen in my Sandbox where I've taken the Spy Responses page and changed it with my new template. Now that it's finished, I wanted to submit it for discussion to see what everyone else would think about changing the design of the pages. Here is what the page looks like currently. All feedback is appreciated (please note that the actual pages will use the template, and not the code seen on my sandbox). This could also be applied to Voice Commands, with a little editing. 03:45, 27 June 2011 (PDT)

 "You did well!" --CruelCow ^(talk) 12:07, 27 June 2011 (PDT)

 Agree Can't wait to see this on all the articles. SilverHammer 19:54, 27 June 2011 (PDT)

 Agree Looks very cool. Cloventt (Talk) (Contribs) 04:57, 28 June 2011 (PDT)

 Disagree.  Nah, I'm just messin' with yeh. maggosh 07:29, 28 June 2011 (PDT)

It looks good, but the coloration needs to change. Otherwise, nice job. -- En Ex _(talk) 07:35, 28 June 2011 (PDT)

 Support That's great. If we can poke the coloration a little, it will be a great addition to the Wiki!  –  Epic Eric (T | C) 07:40, 28 June 2011 (PDT)

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. I'll get to work on it then. Also, what hex code/colour should it be, Eric? I'll be happy to change it. Edit: Oh yes, I should mention, I am going to do all the pages first, before I upload them to the website, so they all are up at once. You can expect all the pages to be complete in a couple of days! 10:13, 28 June 2011 (PDT)

 Neutral Flatten the orange out at the bottom please to make it like how it is at the top, disregarding the top right corner, otherwise it's distracting. i-ghost 12:33, 28 June 2011 (PDT)

Done. 12:38, 28 June 2011 (PDT)

Change class icons on main page

How about to change icons? Current are since beta times. New are exported from new TF2 main menu and looks better. — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Skeleton (talk) • (contribs) 2011-06-28T06:18:51

 Agree I agree that they look much better. Hope Valve implements them as the official class images beside the health bar soon. SilverHammer 03:38, 28 June 2011 (PDT)

 Agree as well. Even if it is solely because the Engineer looks infinitely more bad ass in the new image. -- Hefaistus - talk 03:51, 28 June 2011 (PDT)

 Disagree The old icons are the same as ingame. --CruelCow ^(talk) 04:18, 28 June 2011 (PDT)

 Oppose Although it would be a timely change, I dislike the overly glossy look. I think the old versions are more iconic and a better fit for the main page. — 04:35, 28 June 2011 (PDT)

 Agree I personally prefer the new images, they look far more impressive. Cloventt (Talk) (Contribs) 04:56, 28 June 2011 (PDT)

 Agree Cleaner, more accurate, higher res. Also, these images are also in-game in the start menu, and used for training, so their inclusion here should not rest on whether they are used in-game or now. Balladofwindfishes 05:40, 28 June 2011 (PDT)

 Honestly? No. The icons used in-game are different from the ones showed above and they surely wouldn't fit the main page. IMO, they look to bright, too HD, too exagerated. They fit perfectly on the new website, but on the Wiki, no.  –  Epic Eric (T | C) 07:16, 28 June 2011 (PDT)

 Agree cleaner better looking more modern looking some how and shows a bit about each classes personality.--Giraffey 15:09, 30 June 2011 (PDT)

 Neutral maggosh 07:25, 28 June 2011 (PDT)

 Disagree The old ones are fine. -- En Ex _(talk) 07:36, 28 June 2011 (PDT)

 Agree This has bugged me ingame for some time; the current icons do not represent the actual release models in terms of both their lightwarp and actual textures in some cases. ~ Ath (talk) 07:46, 28 June 2011 (PDT)

 Agree Tiebreaker vote. I like the new images. 404 User Not Found 09:09, 28 June 2011 (PDT)

 Neutral Don't care. 09:11, 28 June 2011 (PDT)

 Disagree the new ones are to fancy SackZement 09:18, 28 June 2011 (PDT)

 Comment They are fancy... And what? TF2 is a very serious game with realistic setting, yeah -_- • Skeleton 10:56, 28 June 2011 (PDT)

 Neutral I'm used to the old ones, also I feel like I would detect them in one fast look. Like SackZement said, they are too fancy. I think there's no need to change them, too. --Shiko 11:08, 28 June 2011 (PDT)

 Comment I don't think being "too fancy" is really a negative of them. They're the first images of the class a new players sees when opening the game, and the new style of artwork is featured much more predominately throughout the website, and now slowly, the game. The old images are old, very old, and very outdated. Heavy lacks gloves, Spy's colors are all wrong, Engy has a bizarre arm problem, Demoman lacks a proper emblem, and so on. I'd reckon the old images are far more negative than the new images, just based on how horribly outdated every single one of them are. Balladofwindfishes 11:11, 28 June 2011 (PDT)

 Comment I always liked them for being outdated, but I guess, thats not an argument, except if you are nostalgic like me. I also changed my vote to neutral, because, after a second thought, they are not THAT bad. I still don't want it, but I also don't mind. --Shiko 11:18, 28 June 2011 (PDT)

 Support I agree with the points made above. The old ones are kind of outdated, the new ones are getting represented in the game now, and nostalgic value is not enough of a reason to keep the old ones. Mar 14:54, 28 June 2011 (PDT)

 Support We need newer versions and I like this one. The others are just outdated. Violencejr123 (talk | contribs) 15:02, 28 June 2011 (PDT)

 Support since the old ones are from the beta and the new ones look guuud – although I do fear the wrath of the image cache if we upload these (ugleh stretched icons on the most visible page on the site). seb26 15:34, 28 June 2011 (PDT)

 Support Yes, since they look damn good and are from the official blog.  –  Ohyeahcrucz [T][C] 15:37, 28 June 2011 (PDT)

 Disagree some of the images are over shadowed while others are over the top lightened. Doing this would create a very bad contrasts between the images, the current ones have the same pitch of lighting for that needed consistence. - Lexar - talk 15:42, 28 June 2011 (PDT)

 Agree As the new, official images that greet the player once the game starts, I find these very fitting.--Kid Of The Century 03:47, 30 June 2011 (PDT)

 Disagree They're just a bit too shiny for my liking, and some of them seem rather outdated in terms of visuals (look at Medic's face). 10:34, 30 June 2011 (PDT)

 Agree These images are relevant in the sense that they are contemporary. They also match the character models in the game. Somethings always irked me about the use of the Beta models personally. Noizeblaze 13:09, 30 June 2011 (PDT)

 Support I think its a good idea but it might do with a little shading on the pictures. The Noble Scout _(T/C) 21:40, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

 Disagree I feel that the beta icons are more representative of each class, with special regard to the weapon each one is holding. -- Firestorm 13:49, 30 June 2011 (PDT)

 Comment Here is new version, without editing. Better? Skeleton 14:35, 30 June 2011 (PDT)

 SupportI like this. - 08:10, 1 July 2011 (PDT)

 Agree The old (current) poses are so bland compared to the new poses. Yourter12 13:09, 30 June 2011 (PDT)

 Agree The new poses look pretty spiffy, and better embody the characters and their distinct personalities. -ButteredToast 05:14, 5 July 2011 (PDT)

 Comment One minor thing to change would be to move Scout down a bit and Spy up a bit. I would like to see the cutoff for the bodies to be around the belt (like it is on 75% of those images). But it's a minor, easily fixed issue. Balladofwindfishes 05:17, 5 July 2011 (PDT)

Cube Mapping (Reflective) Weapons

I was wondering why we document if a weapon is jiggleboned or not, but don't do the same for reflectivity (cube mapping). Not every weapon has these, and it really only applies to newish weapons (and the Sniper rifle). I imagine, we could do it like we do jiggles and say like "a reflective handle" and link reflective to the cube mapping page. Just throwing it out there as maybe something to document. Balladofwindfishes 05:56, 28 June 2011 (PDT)

 Support Why not?  –  Ohyeahcrucz [T][C] 15:38, 28 June 2011 (PDT)

 Comment I just noticed we note self-illuminated items... so noting reflectivity at this point just seems appropriate. Balladofwindfishes 05:49, 30 June 2011 (PDT)

How to add the images of hats painted new colors.

Whenever a new batch of paint gets released it seems to take a good while before any of the hats start getting updated to include all of the new colors (especially as more and more paintable hats are released). Since I use those a ton and find them super helpful, I was wondering how I could get/make/whatever those sort of images so that I could help out in getting them all up. Desiderata03 19:43, 28 June 2011 (PDT)

There's a useful tutorial at Template:Painted variants/Tutorial. If you run into problems, try asking for help in the irc channel. — 01:51, 29 June 2011 (PDT)

Quotation template translation parameter

I'm testing a new optional parameter for the Quotation template that adds a new line with the transated text between the quoted text and the source.

For example, in the Sydney Sleeper's italian page now the quote appears like this:

“

Now I gotta make a necklace outta your teeth, bushman's rules. (<Italian translation>) Click to listen (in English) — Il Cecchino riguardo gli accessori all'ultima moda

”

Ugh, I find it ugly. My variation:

“

Now I gotta make a necklace outta your teeth, bushman's rules. (<Italian translation>)  Click to listen (in English) — Il Cecchino riguardo gli accessori all'ultima moda

”

It can be used either to show the original or the translated text. You can see my sandbox template here

Improvements, suggestions? --Kid Of The Century 04:02, 30 June 2011 (PDT)

Happy one-year anniversary, official TF wiki~

The Official-ness of the Team Fortress Wiki is now one year old~ :3

The Russian editors have put together a wonderful page to celebrate this, and all the wiki is grateful. You guys are awesome. We have to give something back~

So how about celebrating with a new skin?

_{^{Now you might be asking yourself, "Wind, just how much of a piggybacking is this push?", "What was in that phonebook of a CSS file I saw?", "Is the Wiki in danger?". Let me answer those questions with a question: Who wants to put that new Vector skin base to good use? Cache... You can also feel free to relax for up to 3 days in the cache waiting room, which is a damn sight less comfortable than the userspace vector.css most of you were using when we found it.}}— Wind 11:46, 30 June 2011 (PDT)

y no my hats. Also Hippy Birthdiy Wiki. - 11:47, 30 June 2011 (PDT)

 YES! YES!  –  Epic Eric (T | C) 11:48, 30 June 2011 (PDT)

 But of course New Skin... Jawohl ! _{Nice Special page ! Great work Russian team} Tturbo _{( / )} 11:50, 30 June 2011 (PDT)

This needs to be on the TF2 Official Website (Not the wiki page for it)! TO THE GABEN MOBILE! L33tz0rx 11:50, 30 June 2011 (PDT)

 NEW SKIN!! Happy Birthday Wiki and an editful year to come =D. - Lexar - talk 11:51, 30 June 2011 (PDT)

 Heck yeah!  –  Ohyeahcrucz [T][C] 11:54, 30 June 2011 (PDT)

Happy birthday wiki! -- Swarfega  T  C  11:55, 30 June 2011 (PDT)

Happy Birthday Wiki! SC 11:57, 30 June 2011 (PDT)

Happy birthday, guys! Sweet skin, Wind. Shane Alvarado 11:58, 30 June 2011 (PDT)

 Support Here you go. I didn't realize this was about the skin. Shane Alvarado 12:57, 30 June 2011 (PDT)

Here's to a lovely 1st official birthday, Wiki! --Akuago220, The Jungle Expeditioner 12:08, 30 June 2011 (PDT)

 Yes! Happy Birthday Wiki~. Nero123 (talk | contribution) 12:10, 30 June 2011 (PDT)

 You did well! Wiki is credit to meme. Sloth 12:31, 30 June 2011 (PDT)

 YES! YES! -- OluapPlayer _(t) 12:51, 30 June 2011 (PDT)

 Yes.avi We say Yes! Maybe! No! Happy birthday wiki. Violencejr123(talk | contribs) 12:58, 30 June 2011 (PDT)

 Yes.avi Happy birthday, guys!--Nik9990 Talk | Cont 13:02, 30 June 2011 (PDT)

 Yes.avi Cheers, my only love! Wait... real_alien (T/C) 13:03, 30 June 2011 (PDT)

 Yes yes yes! That skin would make a lovely present for the Wiki. Noizeblaze 13:05, 30 June 2011 (PDT)

 Shazam! Here's to another year of fabulousness! You all deserve a medal! Or three! -- Firestorm 13:10, 30 June 2011 (PDT)

 Woohoo! Time to celebrate!--FLUDDGadd 13:14, 30 June 2011 (PDT)

It is good day to be giant editor man. — 13:15, 30 June 2011 (PDT)

 Yes yes yes! Happy birthday wiki! And congratulations to those loyal editors that have stayed and helped in creating such wonderful and appealing pages over the year! Denmax 13:21, 30 June 2011 (PDT)

 Yeah! Also Happy Birthday to the wiki! You're still a leedul baby man though :3 13:31, 30 June 2011 (PDT)

 SupportLETS GET THIS PARTY STARTED WOOOOOOOOOO! A TOAST TO THE PEOPLE OF THE WIKI THAT MADE EVERYTHING POSSIBLE!!! The Noble Scout _(T/C) 21:40, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

 Heck Yeah! 1 year down, many more to go! -- Hefaistus - talk 13:47, 30 June 2011 (PDT)

Haha, one year closer to death. - nixshadow (t|c) 15:14, 30 June 2011 (PDT)

 Oh yeah baby as austin powers once said happy b day wiki new skin is epic ( don't get how hats work the downloadable ones when you click on bday cake)--Giraffey 07:36, 1 July 2011 (PDT)

 Cheers mates! --Kid Of The Century 15:32, 30 June 2011 (PDT)

 Pooooooosh – also yey wiki, happy birthday! seb26 16:17, 30 June 2011 (PDT)

 Fancy Very streamlined.   Hooper   talk    contribs    email   20:20, 30 June 2011 (PDT)

 I will now proceed to quote a certain Beatles song Ah would like you to dance, birrrrfday, take a cha-cha-cha-chance, birrrfday, ah would like you to dance, birrrfday~ Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnce~ SilverHammer 20:57, 30 June 2011 (PDT)

 I concur with (many) of the above statements Happy Birthday Mr. Wiki, and many more! And nice work on that page, Russian team! Also WindPower, you so crazy! ":3" --- Esquilax 21:01, 30 June 2011 (PDT)

 I have come out of idling just to wish the Wiki a happy birthday and voice my support for it's birthday present. -- Netshroud (talk | contribs) 21:03, 30 June 2011 (PDT)

 Oppose I AM THE PARTYPOOPER (really I'm  Support and full of cake :3). —Moussekateer·talk 21:04, 30 June 2011 (PDT)

 Happy birthday, wiki!--Daniil 21:46, 30 June 2011 (PDT)

 Erectin a memorial! maggosh 21:53, 30 June 2011 (PDT)

 But of course Provided we poosh infoboxes, navs etc at the same time ;) -- Pilk _(talk) 22:04, 30 June 2011 (PDT)

 Om-nom-nom, themed skins are teh win. Also, woot for a whole year without going under or being over-run by spambots :) TheChrisD ^{Rants•Edits} 19:42, 1 July 2011 (PDT)

 Hudda hudda huh! -ButteredToast 05:10, 5 July 2011 (PDT)

The preceding discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.