User talk:Sitzkrieg/Sandbox/Source code

Merge

Hey. I'm working on the creation of this page. I noticed someone has marked it for deletion without mentioning why within the discussion page. I know it isn't finished, but I need to work in incremental updates because for some reason I keep getting a backend server fetch error from the wiki. This error causes me to lose data frequently.

Sitzkrieg (talk) 17:28, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

I had written up the talk page entry, but due to 503s I couldn't save the edit.

I don't think we should really have an article about this, it only contains about 4 sentences, and most of it is not actually factual information but rather the community's response to something happening. The RCE was never real, cheats/bots were not bolstered by the source code leak as everyone loves to claim (I've already removed these 2 sections), and the rest pretty much covers that there were some comments found in the code. There's not anything noted here that we can't note in the leaked content policy, mainly about just general mentions of code and other assets leaking on several occassions. Furthermore, this page really documents the 2020 source code leak, when there are many other notable leaks, but due to the nature of these leaks I don't think we should cover these at all.
| s | GrampaSwood (talk) (contribs) 17:30, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

I think it is important to document these leaks as they are historic events that have impacted the community and game in major ways. I will not violate any policy. I'm new to editing wikis and want to preserve the history of what happened. I am not able to do large edits at once. There is an issue with the wiki that gives me a backend error nearly every time I post an update. It's very strange.

Sitzkrieg (talk) 18:00, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

I would also like to add that it is factually incorrect to say the source code leaks did not impact the development of cheats. I know rathook, cathook, countryhack, and a few other clients received massive updates thanks to the 2020 leak.

I myself am not a cheater, nor will I ever be, but I do know a few people who are. The page was a work in progress. It was nowhere near finished. I expressed in the first comment in this discussion page that I needed to make smaller, incremental updates because of server errors preventing me from doing more at once. I planned on spending 4+ hours making a page covering all of the major leaks and how they impacted the game and community. To nix the page this early is rather asinine, and I find this kind of action against both a new user and a new page to disincentivize people like me to give up and never contribute again. There is no genuine good-hearted reason to shoot down an unfinished page so early in development. It hasn't even been up for 8 hours. It takes more than one person to decide what's fair.

Sitzkrieg (talk) 18:16, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

The 503 error has been happening for a while, can't do much about it unfortunately. Please also indent your comments appropriately using colons (:), and using 1 more colon than the previous message (e.g. I use 2, the next will need 3, the next 4, etc.).

First off, please read the linked leaked content policy, as you have violated it 3 times by linking sites that host leaked assets twice, as well as copy-pasting directly from code. I have locked the page for a week, if there is no conclusion from the discussion by then I will move this over to Unused content with its own section (and re-written entirely). Also note that if your edits get lost due to an error, you will see a notice saying so. Re-adding the information over and over is not the way to go, as that means it was removed by another editor.

The truth is that there is not much here to warrant its own page, the information about bots/cheats is not really true, the bot crisis started in 2019 (see Cheating#Bots) and this was not the cause of it. This may have helped cheat clients, but not in a noteworthy way. Other than that, the only other section is about a panic that did not last long enough to be worth noting. From memory, it lasted less than a day. The rest of the article talks about something that can be easily summed up in a single section on the Unused content page + would fit better covering more than just the 2020 leak.

Apart from that, this is not an asinine decision, and don't go around insulting users. If you check the page history, I have had to remove the same content 3 times because you kept adding it back. Everyone is held to the same standard, and this is simply known as an edit war. The server errors have nothing to do with the size of your edits, it simply has to do with the serves themselves. If you want, you can mention here what extra stuff you were planning on adding, but so far it's just been re-adding false/unnoteworthy information as well as adding leaked content outright.
| s | GrampaSwood (talk) (contribs) 18:21, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

I believe the impact and importance of how leaks have effected the game and the community can be expressed without violating any policies. The article can stand without a link to TCRF (leaked assets), and I do not see how sharing comments violate any policy.

If they do then so be it. Remove them. Removal of problematic assets is understandable. Deleting the entire page multiple times in a row because your personal narrative doesn't agree with general access to the information is insane.

What has essentially happened here is I would make commits, you would remove them until there is nothing left on the page, then you marked it for deletion (for whatever reason), and now it is locked. I can't even edit the page into what I wanted it to be now. This is

very authoritarian and childish behavior from someone with community status such as yours. You are simply not an authority on cheats unless you're within the community, a developer of cheats, or otherwise an experienced software developer.

It's crazy to deny how technology works and pretend to be a curator, or arbiter of reality. The information is not "false" simply because you say it is.

My end goal for the page was to include every single major leak and how it impacted the game and community. This was going to be a huge, quality, page. Now it will never exist. Access to information is very important

-even if you disagree with it. I think the community deserves to have the ability to learn about leaks. I included two disclaimers in the article stating how both cheating and leaks were not encouraged, nor would access to such things be tolerated.

The article started in good faith. I was going to dedicate hours of my time, totally unpaid, to educating the community. You have cut a sapling and complained there is no tree. I cannot believe this type of behavior is tolerated.

Sitzkrieg (talk) 18:39, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

Sharing the comments is 1:1 copying from the leaked code to the article. As stated in the leaked content policy: "[you must not] include or link to parts of the actual source code.". I did not delete the entire page multiple times, that's just plain false. I removed sections that are just not true, and immediately accusing me of doing it for a "personal narrative [that] doesn't agreee with general access to the information". It is not uncommon to have information that's added without a source removed, especially when this information would have to be sourced from bad actors to the community which we don't want involvement with + would require the linking of several cheats to confirm.

It is not good to get personally attached to what you create, the Wiki is free to edit by anyone, and as long as the edits abide by the policies (which mine have) they're completely fine. Continually re-adding info that was previously removed is edit warring, which is not accepted on the Wiki. I don't want to engage with the rest of the insults thrown at me, as this is just not productive in the slightest.

Like I mentioned, you can mention here how much more you were planning to add (specifics) or simply host it over at your Sandbox page (which I will not remove information from, unless it is policy breaking). This page was locked down for a good reason, and I don't see much reason to unlock it for now.
| s | GrampaSwood (talk) (contribs) 19:20, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ I don't think it should be merged in it's current state. Page is unfinished. Maybe Sitzkrieg can continue working on it on their sandbox and ask for feedback once it's in a "finished state". Page should only really be public when it's ready to be public. As of right now it's not ready and should probably just get deleted. Also, Sitzkrieg, no need to take things personally. GrampaSwood is simply enforcing the guidelines. This isn't some malicious attack or targeted bullying. I would've done the same and removed your edits that don't adhere to the wiki policies. Mediarch ♥ Talk ♥ My Edits 21:12, 31 August 2024 (UTC)