Talk:Underworld

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	Archive 1

Revival of 'List of Underworlds' table rework project.

I saw that the Underworld page is fairly out-of-date, and that there has been a few projects with the aim of redoing the table that appear to have been abandoned.

Based on the existing projects and my own pet peeves, I felt it might be better to simplify it down to just an overall 'Description' column that allows for more open description of the underworlds, with finer details like buffs upon entering/exiting able to go in the 'Details' column. I've created a proof of concept using just Bloodwater, with data copied from the main Underworld page (so it may have inaccuracies or grammatical errors).

Map	Name & Description	Details	Gallery
Bloodwater	Purgatory Consists of lava and poisonous air. If a player takes one of MONOCULUS' portals, their health is fully restored and they are transported to a small set of small islands with a few Magic Spells scattered around. Leaving through the white portal takes them back to the control point with a series of temporary buffs, including full Critical hits. Attacking MONOCULUS with these Crits stuns him for a few seconds.	Details for 'Purgatory' would go in this section.
	Loot Island Another location in Purgatory. Players can access it by touching the Bombinomicon that appears once MONOCULUS has been defeated; they must then make their way to the giant skull and get the Bombinomicon in there. Once they do, they are taken back to the control point with a series of buffs and a Rare Magic Spell. Similar to Eyeaduct, the air in Loot Island is harmless, the cease-fire would have ended, and players may attack their enemies on this location. Also, staying here for too long causes the island to explode, killing anyone on it.	Details for 'Loot Island' would go in this section.

I'm not great at formatting tables, so please let me know what you think of it, and what you would change about it; I hope we can replace the old table after so long!
Kibblekip ^{T | C} 12:00, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

I think a much simpler table would be better, scrapping all the explanations and just having some basic info similar to what was proposed on Template talk:Water locations table.
| s | GrampaSwood (talk) (contribs) 14:28, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

I see what you mean yeah, I like how the first of those two tables look given its smaller size would prevent it from being too cramped while still including an image of the underworld itself, though I feel it potentially limits how health/ammo kits in the underworld of varying sizes and amounts can be acknowledged to be in an Underworld to a more specific degree without those also having their own column (off the top of my head of things worth mentioning otherwise is health drain, environmental hazards, entry/exit buffs and spells).
Kibblekip ^{T | C} 02:25, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

I've tried reformatting it a bit based on the table(s) you linked to be more simplified, and reorganized it slightly.

Map	Gallery	Pickups	Features
Bloodwater	Purgatory	basic details, i.e health, ammo, spells; see below for potential example of this (even though 'loot island' contains none of these lol)	Health drain   Hazards   Exit Portal
	Loot Island	x2  x1  x4  x2  x2  x2  x1	Health drain   Hazards   Exit Portal

Some things obviously still need improving; ideally the spell types would be easier to differentiate by including their particle effects, hazards could be provided in more detail, and additional features listed, but otherwise I feel this could potentially work? Should be more friendly for translation too, though it is just a mockup for the basic structure.
Kibblekip ^{T | C} 22:06, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

I think the pickups bit can be removed, just have a checkmark for spells, hazards, health drain, uber/crit on exit maybe, and an additional section for small notes (e.g. "Starts a 3v3" for Moldergrove, but nothing major).
| s | GrampaSwood (talk) (contribs) 22:14, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

I guess the pickups section would be somewhat unnecessary yeah. In my head listing buffs could be approached as two checks for 'Buffs on entrance' and 'Buffs on exit' (with exit greyed out if there isnt an exit), with what the specific buffs are listed in the notes section? I feel it is worth clarifying at the least what the buffs are and maybe if rare spells are present within the underworld or not (hazards I feel aren't as important to clarify on).
Kibblekip ^{T | C} 22:34, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

I would do something like:
  Health drain
  Hazards
  Speed on entrance
  Speed on exit
  Critical hits on exit
  ÜberCharge on exit.
| s | GrampaSwood (talk) (contribs) 22:42, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ The problem is not every underworld heals you on when you enter, some apply a healing buff, some just set your health to max, some do(n't) give uber on entrance, etc. I feel there would be too many factors and inconsistencies to account for with checks, and that it would be better to clarify on the buffs in the extra notes section and just use a basic buff on entrance or exit check. Though if you feel it would still be fine and there isn't a need to be specific about the healing amount and such, we can work with that.
Kibblekip ^{T | C} 23:05, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

Yeah just Healing on entrance works. The main concern here is keeping the table up-to-date for all languages.
| s | GrampaSwood (talk) (contribs) 23:09, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

I hadn't considered that actually yeah, good point. Maybe it would be best to display it like:
On entrance:
  Healing
  Speed
  ÜberCharge
  Crits
And then repeat for on exit? I think those four cover everything that can occur other than receiving a spell, at least, though that can probably be added while still being translation friendly.
Kibblekip ^{T | C} 23:28, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

What if we went with a ridiculously short article, like Bumper Cars, and

1. just had the table in the "List of maps with Underworld locations" section (minus the "Underworld(s)" column to facilitate translation),
2. just had a list of maps with Underworlds, similar to the one in Magic spells,
3. just had a "Gallery" section with pictures of the Underworlds, or
4. had either 1 or 2 as well as 3?

- BrazilianNut (talk) 06:19, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

Edit: I've updated the Sandbox page with ideas 2 and 3. - BrazilianNut (talk) 06:56, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

Lowkey if anything, seeing the pages for spells makes me think that could do with improving too lol, and the Bumper Cars page is an extremely small stub that could do with some expanding of its own.
I don't feel like it would make as much sense adapting the current format of the spells page for underworlds, as I feel there is more information and features that can be provided for individual underworlds than there is for spells, plus there being a lot more underworlds than spells in the first place.
Kibblekip ^{T | C} 07:35, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

To prevent flooding this talk channel with tables, I've made my own sandbox page here. At the moment the table is quite flawed as you'll see on the page itself, but I'm personally a fan of how this one looks.
EDIT: Nevermind, I learned how to use columns, so I guess the table is open to standard feedback now!
Kibblekip ^{T | C} 01:15, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

I added the 'AllowedEditors' template to the page I mentioned above; the table is essentially complete at this point, but as the note says, if anyone feels the table needs any minor adjustments or improvements (visible or just cleanup) do feel free. If there isn't any issues the table can probably be made into its own template page and replace the existing table at some point in the near future.
Kibblekip ^{T | C} 03:27, 22 August 2024 (UTC)