Team Fortress Wiki:Discussion

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Proposing an "In Other Games" page of sorts...

Typically, TF2 appearances in other games, such as Worms: Reloaded or Dungeon Defenders, appear in said Trivia section of the page. However, for those with many appearances elsewhere, like the Pyro, we end up with a long list of Trivia detailing the exploits of Hudda Hudda Huh in other games. Why not just take every instance where TF2 has appeared in another game, and make a new page out of it? -- InShane 05:54, 1 March 2012 (PST)

We already have that, just as a subsection. -- Hefaistus - talk 06:15, 1 March 2012 (PST)

Well then, blast! I guess my question now would be if each of these instances should be mentioned on each trivia page. I felt that it was fine when the references were few, but the trivia some pages, like the aforementioned Pyro page, is over half-occupied with appearances in different games. -- InShane 07:15, 1 March 2012 (PST)

I guess a section dedicated to other games should go in each of the dedicated Class reference pages. I'll look into it tonight. » Cooper Kid (blether) • (contreebs) 07:24, 1 March 2012 (PST)

Patch layout upgrade or modification

I saw this nice: "patch name"-template, and i just thought that for every language the change for the next patch is done(after = ...). I mean these parts: before, current, after ; these are manually added in every language after the next patch is announced. It reminded me of the Patches page itself which works now as a template and must be edited only once and the rest will change itself. So couldn't this also be done on a greater scale? Please tell me what you think and know about it! TheDoctor 19:36, 1 March 2012 (PST)

Get rid of orphan translated disambiguation pages

A lot of disambiguation pages have been translated but are total orphans. This makes them hard to maintain and almost completely pointless because no one can get to them. Only the main version will come up when using the search box. For example, BB/de is the German version of BB. No one is going to type "BB/de" into the search field, they will type "BB" if anything. Since nothing links to that page, it should be removed. I propose that all translated disambiguation pages (like BB/de) be removed if they are not connected to real articles, like 119th_medals/de is. The one downside is that all of these pages will show up as untranslated pages, but I think that's okay, since they already do show up that way on most languages. As another option, we could modify the bots to omit disambiguation pages in that report.

It's a shame to lose all this translated material, and it would be nice if non-English visitors could get to those pages, but that's just not how the Go/Search functionality works on the wiki. Thoughts? – fashnek _(talk·c) 09:45, 5 March 2012 (PST)

Less is always better. I started this in the irc chat, and i fully support it that these non logical articles should be removed. TheDoctor 09:48, 5 March 2012 (PST)

If we can get a tag for the English pages that we can put in so that those pages will not start clogging up the missing translations list, then I am all in favour for it. Particularly since there are 'bout four dozen of those BB-pages. -- Hefaistus - talk 10:09, 5 March 2012 (PST)

Yes, the tag would be that they are in Category:Disambiguation. This would lead to false positives on disambig. pages that are actually used, but redlinks on articles are straightforward to address. – fashnek _(talk·c) 10:13, 5 March 2012 (PST)

I just wanted to note that i started a small discussion with DrAkcel and he said he will take care of the matter, in the russian language. TheDoctor 11:36, 7 March 2012 (PST)

But are you planning on making the bots ignore all disambigs? Some disambigs, such as Badge, really shoud be translated, and the translation of the name of these pages should redirect to their translations (eg. Значок redirects to Badge/ru, which should be done for all other languages as well).  –  Epic Eric (T | C) 11:39, 7 March 2012 (PST)

That makes me wonder, EpicEric. Why should a russian person create a Badge/ru article and then make a redirect from the russian language to this article. Isn't it more logical to make the article under the russian name for badge???? If this is not possible, ignore my rejection for it. TheDoctor 16:23, 7 March 2012 (PST)

Well, yes, it would be easiest to ignore all disambiguation pages. The false positives would be those few disambiguation pages that actually need to be translated. Badge only needs to be translated if someone sees that it needs to be translated due to a redlink or because that person has created some redirect in their own language. Nothing actually links to the "Badge" article so it exists for search purposes. I believe search abbreviations should be handled on a by-language basis. That means that if Russian editors want to have a search-based disambiguation page for articles, they should make that disambiguation page make sense in Russian specifically. It should not try to match the English one, which is based on the English word "badge". – fashnek _(talk·c) 08:42, 8 March 2012 (PST)

 Support. But the bot should definitely omit them, or the new Russian translators will translate them again and again :). — Stormbird ^talk 08:56, 8 March 2012 (PST)

Or we add on the header of missing translation pages: "ONLY TRANSLATE DISAMBIGUATION PAGES IF THEY HAVE THE SAME NAME IN THE OTHER LANGUAGE ; and/or open articles in the russian written way, because f.e. PP/ru doesnt help a russian much if he searches in the russian language" TheDoctor 02:56, 9 March 2012 (PST)

Articles that make no sense (BB/ru,BB/de and others) need to remove--FreeXMan Talk | Cont 11:51, 10 March 2012 (PST)

We discussed it today with some russian translators. The best way, to my mind, is to make bot ignore pages from Category:Disambiguation and all localized categories like Category:Disambiguation/ru. Then all translated disambigs should be analyzed and either removed or adapted to the article language. There are TWO points that should be taken into consideration. 1) Not all english disambigs make sense in other languages (e.g., Point have those 2 meanings in english, but in russian they are completely different). 2) There are disambigs in other languages that do not have english equivalents (e.g., the russian word Ключ has 2 meanings: Wrench and Key, and we need a disambig/ru page). So, once again, bot should not process disambig pages as «translation needed» and all translated disambig pages should be revised and either removed or fixed to correspond the article language. — Stormbird ^talk 12:06, 10 March 2012 (PST)

Would PS3 modding count under hacking?

I was thinking about updating the Hacking page with info about hacking the PS3/XBOX 360 versions of the game, as they are practically hacks aswell.

Would this be a good idea?--Iamgoofball 22:09, 5 March 2012 (PST)

New template(s) proposal

Hi all, I've not made any edits for a month or so, mainly because it's been pretty quiet and I'm loathe to make work for work's sake. However, I saw this thread on SPUF, and decided to help the guy out and improve the wiki at the same time.

The almost-finished (item name links need improving) template is here, and it uses a base layout, which is seperate from the data to allow for easier editing.

The base template also uses a new User:Rebmcr/qualitycheck template (thanks to EpicEric), which could be used in place of Template:canbeunusual, if it's considered a good idea.

I need to write a Usage section for these 3 new templates tonight, but I just wanted to start getting opinions on this now. rebmcr 03:34, 14 February 2012 (PST)

OK, usage section written, appearance improved. I feel this is of a quality now that can go onto the main site. What does everyone think? rebmcr 13:57, 15 February 2012 (PST)

 I approve of this.  –  Epic Eric (T | C) 13:12, 15 February 2012 (PST)

 I approve of this in a superior fashion compared to Epic Eric -- Firestorm 13:13, 15 February 2012 (PST)

Here's my two cents:

• Title bar is too big, should only cover one line (might also read better as "Possible weapon qualities")
• Background colour makes it hard to see the breaks between weapons - try switching it to #FFDDAD as in this one
• Don't really need the key twice - all other templates on the wiki just have it at the bottom

Nice job overall. I saw that post on the forums too and was thinking about throwing a template together. Glad I didn't bother because this one's much better than anything I could have come up with!

» Cooper Kid (blether) • (contreebs) 14:35, 15 February 2012 (PST)

Thanks for the feedback, been a bit (a lot) busy since last week, but I applied those suggestions now and fixed the bug with the title size. rebmcr 13:14, 20 February 2012 (PST)

• Looks like the feedback was spread out over each page in the project, so I've grouped it here (if that's Naughty, please let me know). I would really appreciate more opinions, guys! rebmcr 13:14, 20 February 2012 (PST)

 I support this, but, we must decide whether to include such qualities as vintage for items that were not intended to be vintage (like Earbuds), as well as the community and self-made qualities. I eat derpcakes 10:28, 10 March 2012 (PST)

Earbuds aren't weapons =/ I don't think it's worth adding Self-Made or Community, as practically any item can be found in those qualities. The current ones (Normal, Unique, Vintage, Genuine and Strange) are enough. » Cooper Kid (blether) • (contreebs) 13:44, 10 March 2012 (PST)

IMO, it should only list qualities that are normally obtainable. Eg.: Big Kill should be listed only as Unique, not Vintage, as it was obtainable through an unusual method.  –  Epic Eric (T | C) 13:56, 10 March 2012 (PST)

Alrighty then, no bugged items (frowny face). I will proceed to comment that the strange-quality checkmarks are very hard to make out and hurt your eyes too. I'll work on the rest of the items' qualities, if you don't mind WHICH YOU DON'T. I eat derpcakes 14:16, 10 March 2012 (PST) Oops you took care of that =/ I eat derpcakes 14:17, 10 March 2012 (PST)

Gonna do a mmmphing awesome upgrade to the tick/cross cells now. Watch this space. rebmcr 05:39, 11 March 2012 (PDT)

Done, see below.rebmcr 14:45, 11 March 2012 (PDT)

 Heck yes. But I think you should just include the Multiple classes weapons on their respective classes. It's not such a big deal to have 3 shotguns in the template, but if users find it easier to locate, it should be better. GianAwesome 19:24, 10 March 2012 (PST)

 I have no strong feelings one way or the other What does everyone else think? What about Saxxy and Objector? rebmcr 05:39, 11 March 2012 (PDT)

New Stuff!

• Got a NEW VERSION for your approval/disapproval. I'll re-flow it into 8 columns when I get a consensus on whether to fold-in multi-class weapons (no point re-flowing it twice). rebmcr 14:45, 11 March 2012 (PDT)

 I still approve of this  –  Epic Eric (T | C) 15:08, 15 March 2012 (PDT)

• Also calling for votes on how to display the ticks/crosses! Look HERE and then let me know what style you'd prefer! rebmcr 14:45, 11 March 2012 (PDT)

Batallion's Backup has the Festive Flame Thrower icon. Otherwise, nice job!--Iamgoofball 15:53, 11 March 2012 (PDT)

You're looking at the next row. rebmcr 15:55, 11 March 2012 (PDT)

I like it, but the key looks weird; it is currently too big it fit in it's own section. 18:25, 11 March 2012 (PDT)

Yeah, the CSS is bugged in Chrome. Gonna fix it this afternoon. rebmcr 04:13, 12 March 2012 (PDT)

 1  –  Epic Eric (T | C) 15:08, 15 March 2012 (PDT)

Item set crafting - separate template

Currently, for most weapon-based item sets (with one exception), we need two or three blueprints which have different ingredients but all create the same thing. Take, for example, these two for the Attendant:

Refined Metal		Degreaser		Attendant
x4	+		=

Refined Metal		Powerjack		Attendant
x4	+		=

I think that we should make a template called Item set blueprint, and in order to use it, you simply put in the name of the item set and it does the work. For example, {{Item set blueprint|Gas Jockey's Gear}} would give you a single blueprint for the Gas Jockey's Gear item set headwear crafting blueprint thing. How would it be a single blueprint, instead of two or three, as shown above? We would take the slot that would originally be for either the Degreaser or Powerjack, and instead label it "Gas Jockey's Gear weapon", and below it have a thumbnail for each weapon. However, in order for this to work, I would need help with translation switching.

Please note that in order to make this work the original {{Blueprint}} template must be updated (for multiple ingredients in one slot); also, share your thoughts. I eat derpcakes 10:59, 10 March 2012 (PST)

Kind of like how class token blueprints have multiple results? That could work.  Support. » Cooper Kid (blether) • (contreebs) 11:07, 10 March 2012 (PST)

 Support/comment Sounds like a good idea! How about instead of "Gas Jockey's Gear Weapons", you have the spot where there are multiple items that could be used, and have a / in-between the two items, and show both of the items icons?--Iamgoofball 21:32, 10 March 2012 (PST)

 Support Not much to say, just support. rebmcr 05:39, 11 March 2012 (PDT)

 Support and  Comment: There'd be no need to create a new template; we could only use {{Blueprint|autoresult=gas jockey's gear}}, for example, and it'd automatically appear correctly (as long as it's correctly dictionarized).  –  Epic Eric (T | C) 08:41, 11 March 2012 (PDT)

 Comment If once done every language would be up to date with the template update, which is good. But you could also manually do that. I just thought that the idea of an icon "jockey gear weapon" and under it the symbol of the weapons which you can use is not that great. I wonder if there are only 2 weapons which can be used it you let both appear like this: Weapon1/Weapon2. And they are kept seperated with a diagonally line. But i think the way it is done now works also very great and easy. TheDoctor 17:01, 11 March 2012 (PDT)

Like this? User:Cooper Kid/Blueprint example1 » Cooper Kid (blether) • (contreebs) 17:35, 11 March 2012 (PDT)

No I thought it should be like this:  ; just done it fast this is just an example. TheDoctor 17:46, 11 March 2012 (PDT)

Is this better?

User:Cooper Kid/Blueprint example » Cooper Kid (blether) • (contreebs) 18:01, 11 March 2012 (PDT)

Yes it is. Still i love this black lines until they reach the word "or". This seperation with the black lines makes it more clear for the casual user, and make it look not so plain. But if it can't be done otherwise i support this. Also cool for the fast answer. TheDoctor 18:04, 11 March 2012 (PDT)

 Support/comment I really like how this looks. It would save a bit of space on the pages, as well. ~Sven 20:22, 11 March 2012 (PDT)

 Me gusta, but still, how would we deal with three-weapon sets? This is a "three pipe problem," as they say (apparently). I eat derpcakes 03:30, 12 March 2012 (PDT)

Example numero 3 coming up:

User:Cooper Kid/Blueprint example2 » Cooper Kid (blether) • (contreebs) 05:13, 12 March 2012 (PDT)

And this doesnt show the item name + link which doesnt help people who dont know the symbols of every weapon, or maybe think the bushwacka is a kukri... TheDoctor 05:30, 12 March 2012 (PDT)

I did try having all 3 items named like in the first two examples, but it made the template very wide. Clicking on any of the images does link to the respective weapon's article, so that should help. » Cooper Kid (blether) • (contreebs) 05:57, 12 March 2012 (PDT)

 Support this version. Each weapon icon is clickable in case you don't know the name, and having lines is a) cluttered and fussy, and b) difficult to code. rebmcr 08:11, 12 March 2012 (PDT)

 Support this solution, but I think it would be better to have "any" instead of "or", in a case which contains 3 items. I eat derpcakes 13:57, 12 March 2012 (PDT)

Lang icon Additional strings

Currently, Template:Lang icon only supports translated string for the word English. Sometimes it has to be used for other languages, but when you do that it shows the string of the language IN that language, for example, "Lang icon|ru" generates Русский. I think we should add the strings for other languages. GianAwesome 11:52, 11 March 2012 (PDT)

I support this idea, but I wonder how often it is really needed. TheDoctor 12:00, 11 March 2012 (PDT)

"Random Page" button will never give any english pages

For the last 20 or so times I hit the random page button, none of the pages I got were in english.

I just thought I should say that, as that gets extremely annoying. Especially if it happens every single time, like it is now.--Iamgoofball 21:32, 11 March 2012 (PDT)

It's a software limitation. This happens because there are more translated articles than there are original, English ones. We can't do much about it. I eat derpcakes 15:17, 13 March 2012 (PDT)

It may be a software limitation, but it pretty much makes the random page button useless. Calq 15:37, 15 March 2012 (PDT)

Solution: Don't use it. I eat derpcakes 15:39, 15 March 2012 (PDT)

Bundles Template (lang. switched)

I just saw that the german page of the Bundle is outdated and the Prices and Availability changes, and to keep it in all languages correct, i would find it great if there would be a template for it. Also for new Bundles it would be great to have at least all Bundles listed, instead of not seeing all content. Soooo someone here to support my idea??? TheDoctor 05:41, 12 March 2012 (PDT)