Talk:Community Pyro strategy

I'm going to start going through this page and rewriting it as more of coherent guide than a list of bullet points. Each section will be based on a different style of play, as opposed to the current system where it simply lists bits of strategies based around the individual weapons and unlocks. I'm going to try and use as much content from the current bulleted version of the article. If there are any disagreements, discuss them here. I think this will be a great improvement to tf2wiki! Tachko 03:56, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

Great! I'm sure we'll all appreciate it by sending you imaginary cookies. -Firestorm 04:56, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

What makes this different from the Basic Pyro Strategy?

Was just sorta wondering while this is it's own page, rather than simply a series of edits to the basic page. I'd appreciate any explanation. Just strikes me as a bit redundant, and has a few things that I wouldn't even call advanced strategy. Aradraugfea 21:10, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

The Basic Pyro Strategy is for people learning the ropes of the class, who aren't familiar with what the class is capable of. This page here is for players to add their own advice and expand on the general knowledge of the class. --LordKelvin 21:38, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

So a note mentioning that the Shotgun outranges the flamethrower (or at least seems to in my experience) would still be appropriate on the basic? And then wouldn't 'advanced Pyro Strategy' be a better name for this article?Aradraugfea 22:39, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

The primary difference is that the Basic Pyro Strategy is stuff that everybody can agree on, that everybody who knows how to play the class knows as second nature. The Community section is for more "advanced" stuff, yes, but it largely boils down to things that, in your opinion, work, but that can be attributed to play style differences and deeper stuff that requires knowing the class a bit better to understand. --LordKelvin 22:55, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanation. I'm not nuts about the shotgun outranging the flamethrower, am I? I mean, effective range isn't that much different, but my experience is that I can typically hit someone with it that I'd miss with the flamethrower. That itself seems pretty basic. It being handy for air-juggling pyro's would be the more 'advanced/community' stuff. I'm sorta new to the wiki, so I don't wanna put an edit/note somewhere it doesn't belong. -Aradraugfea 23:00, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

A new Pyro combination. But one thing I must ask.

Before I ask, the Degreaser's fast weapon-switch ability makes it a useful weapon with the Axtinguisher, so right off the bat, we know Degreaser and Axtinguisher will be in the combination. However, what secondary should be in the combination: Shotgun or Flare Gun?

For Shotgun, you still have the ability to burn with the Degreaser, it is a good way to finish off the enemy (if he was being overhealed or is a Soldier/Heavy), and can be used in water. So you can simply puff, airblast, and quickly use the Axtinguisher, then finish off with the Shotgun if the enemy in question is not already dead (or Puff -> Airblast -> Shotgun -> Axtinguish).

For Flare Gun, there are two ways to burn, has a higher damage output (Puff -> Airblast -> Flare -> Axtinguish for around 236 damage at a quick time, thanks to quick switching), and alone it can shoot faraway. Which should be chosen? Or, should there just be two more combinations? AbeX300 20:42, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Both loadouts have their advantages and disadvantages. Like you said, the shotgun enables more short-range burst damage, but the flares allow for combats at longer ranges. Using one or the other boils down to your personal preference and/or playstyle. And if you have an odd-leveled weapons :P - Mistah Phoenix 20:48, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Right, so I suppose two combinations are to be created. :D Also, I forgot to mention that the Shotgun is more effective against other Pyros. Then again, the Axtinguisher isn't effective either way against Pyros. AbeX300 21:31, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

New Pyro Weapon Combination; Not Sure If This Is Legit

As someone who plays as Pyro quite frequently, I experiment with weapons now and then. Recently, I have fallen in love with The Degreaser's quick weapon-switch ability. I then pondered how this could be used along with the Homewrecker as I saw the strageties in the Homewrecker section.

So I came up with this weapon combination:

Theoretical Combination
Combo			Usage
Degreaser	Shotgun	Homewrecker	For the Pyro who wants to destory enemy sentries. The Degreaser helps damage both the Engineer and the sentry at the same rate. Morever, its quick weapon-switching ability can let the Pyro quickly switch to the Homewrecker to quickly finish off the sentry before the Engineer can react to the afterburn. Additionally, the Degreaser can airblast sentry rockets to the sentry or the Enigneer. All these especially work well with a Medic on your side and even better with an ubercharge. The shotgun is used to finish off the burning Engineer at close-quarters to make up for the low-damaging melee weapon. The homewrecker is ideal as it can finish sentries faster than the Engineer can repair them and takes out mini-sentries in two hits. However, your low damage output makes you vulnerable to stronger foes, especially Heavies. This set-up is not for amateur Pyros as it requires a mastery of side-strafing and circle-strafing to avoid sentry knockback.

I am not totally sure if this is fully legit though as this is my first time making up such a combination. I would like to know what you guys think of this. Is the combination bogus? Is the description too specific? I would very much like some critique before putting this up, if it is accepted at all. ------ Davtwan 19:03, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Adding Three Subheadings to The General Heading

(Ugh browser moved back as I was typing, so I have to type this again. Sorry if this feels rushed.)

I thought that one way we could clean up this article is divide the General section of the article to different playstyles. For the Pyro, I was thinking of dividing it to Ambushing, Supporting, and Pocketing (Defensive).

Ambushing: Attacking the enemy at their blind spots from a hidden location. Supporting: Going along the team at the front lines to attack, put out fires, reflect projectiles, and push back Übers. Pocketing: Staying in the back-lines to spy-check, reflect explosives off sentry bases, remove sappers, and push back rushes and emeny Übers.

I do realize there are other playstyles. If you think there is a major playstyle that I missed, then let me know! Please provide an explanation for the playstyle too.

The section will end up looking like this:

1. General

1.1 Ambushing

1.2 Supporting

1.3 Pocketing

I know this is a major revision to the General section, so I want to know what your thoughs are before I do this. Any input, rejection, or approval would be appreciated. ----- Davtwan 17:56, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

P.S. To those wondering, I was thinking of moving the tips to their appropriate sections and any tips that don't fit would be left under the General heading. ---- Davtwan 17:57, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

I just did a general overhaul of the entire section, short of map-specific tips. I moved some tips to different places, re-ordered the sections for flow, and generally cut down on some stuff that doesn't quite work or was repeated. Pertaining to the General section, I would appreciate a general read-over to see how it looks now.

As for the play-styles, I would fully support adding sub-headings to make it easier to read. However, I would like to point out that "Pocket" has different connotations in different circles; in competitive play, "Pocket" means pairing up with a Medic and charging the enemy head-on. I would suggest the following instead, to reduce confusion:

1. General

1.1 Ambushing/Roaming

1.2 Front-Line Combat/Pocketing

1.3 Supporting

1.4 Defensive

I think that non-ambiguous headings would likely go a long way towards making it easier to read. --LordKelvin 05:56, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

Ah, I only used the term "pocket" as in a defesnive Pyro as it was used in the article before. The term was used as a personal pyro that guards the backlines or sentry camps. Sort of like a Pyro in an Engie's pocket, I suppose. I see now that the term has been removed in recent editing, however. I'll assume it was used incorrectly by the Wiki's standards.

By "support," I was refering to front-line combat. Usually the Pyro assists in front-line combat by reflections, attacking in thin areas, and extinguishing the team. I'll fix that to avoid confusion as well.

So now my new headings will be:

1. General

1.1 Ambushing/Roaming

1.2 Front-Line Combat/Support

1.3 Defensive

I am almost done rearranging the tips. I'll recopy the General Tips if your overhaul has made any changes on those. Thanks for your input and I'll be adding any changes you did to the tip list (as I don't plan on removing any tips just yet) right away. ----- Davtwan 18:41, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

The revision is complete. I have not removed any tips, instead I either moved them to the appropriate section or converted them into a paragraph. I have also added some tips of my own to give some of the sections more meat. I'lll try to see a mod of the strategy revision project as soon as possible before posting it up. ----- Davtwan 18:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Adding new section, "Class-Specific Strategies"

I was adding extra tips to the Pyro Match-Ups section, but then I realized that there are just so many different things you can put in it, especially since it varies depending on the setup of your opponent. I was thinking, it would probably be a better idea to create a class-specific subsection in this article instead, and let players add to that. I'm going to get started adding to it over the next few days, but I also need to do some double-checking to see if/how any current tips already cover anything that would go into there. --LordKelvin 05:56, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

Weapon combination templates

Is there a way to create a weapon combo template that allows you to display multiple weapons in one slot, like the crafting templates? Right now there are two such examples on this page, for the roaming Pyro and Gas Jockey set, they only switch out the melee weapon and the secondary weapon respectively. Being able to condense those into single entries would free up a fair amount of space. --LordKelvin 18:55, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

Scratch that, learned to do it myself. And it only took me like ten minutes! Yay! --LordKelvin 03:19, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

Strategy Revisions

I just did a fair bit of revision to this page, mostly to clear up bad grammar and word things in a clear way. I was trying not to straight up dispose of any of the advice already on the page, but I found myself using "Inattentive" an awful lot. I'm pretty sure the style guide says not to post any strategy which relies on the enemy being inexperienced or stupid, so should I erase said tips? Lustacide 04:59, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Eh, I'd just leave them as it is. All of the community strategy pages are looking at major overhaul right now anyways, there'll be plenty of time to see if those tips fit or not. --LordKelvin 05:05, 28 February 2011 (UTC)