Team Fortress Wiki:Discussion

create a new section

Supporting charities

How about the TF Wiki starts supporting charities? And with that I mean put up the HTML widget for the Humble Bundle? http://www.humblebundle.com/

I think it'd help them a lot, and it wouldn't hurt the Wiki in anyway. I have yet to see confirmation of that we're allowed to use the actual widget they provide, but I don't think Wolfire would mind it all that much.

Actual code is here, I'm e-mailing him as I type this. <iframe style="margin:0 auto; border:none;" src="http://www.humblebundle.com/_widget/html" width="410" height="150"></iframe> (source: http://blog.wolfire.com/2011/07/Introducing-Humble-Indie-Bundle-3)

Thoughts? --Mave 12:40, 31 July 2011 (PDT)

Great idea but it'll need Wiki Staff approval first. » Cooper Kid (Blether · Contreebs) 16:53, 31 July 2011 (PDT)

Without a doubt, of course. Any chance you could get the word out to them? I have no idea who to contact, hehe. --Mave 03:32, 1 August 2011 (PDT)

Almost everyone watches this page (editors & mods) so you'll probably get some more comments soon. I would first say that this doesn't seem that feasible on this site. IFrames are pretty dodgy, and they are also disabled by the software so that would not work out. If people agree to this, maybe we could link to humblebundle.com somewhere? seb26 03:51, 1 August 2011 (PDT)

All-Class emblem in navs

It would appear we don't really have a concrete idea of what to do here. For awhile we were using a question mark, but that looked just odd. Now we have a TF2 logo, but it still looks odd. Further, the icon is being removed from some templates and left on others, and it's being placed on some items but not others. Overall it's confusing and I think we need a direction so our navs don't have different styles going on between them. Personally, I think we should organize everything into class. Instead of having all the weapons organized by class in rows, and then all the hats scattered about, we should just throw the hats into the place we put the weapons, or create a second part of the nav for rows of class hats. No matter what we need a good idea of what all the navs need to look like, so we don't have various navs with different styles. Balladofwindfishes 09:44, 2 August 2011 (PDT)

 Comment I personally think that there should be neither question mark icon, nor tf2 logo, simply leave all class or multiple class items with no emblem. I also don't like the idea of splitting the navs into different rows, the navs are already massive enough as it is. MogDog66 00:52, 4 August 2011 (PDT)

 Comment In the recent Deus Ex Update, Valve has actually used the TF2 emblem as an all class icon, near the bottom. The Machina, Diamondback, Purity Fist, Widowmaker, Short Circuit and Nanobalaclava all use the icon of their TF2 class, while the Company Man and Dues Specs, both all class items, use the TF2 emblem. -- Hefaistus - talk 00:56, 20 August 2011 (PDT)

"Basic strategy" template

There was a nice template used on each class page to list the official basic tips (those shown during the map's loading), especially helpful to prevent people writing their own "tips".

While unfortunately it didn't prevent the manual addition of tips (as Seb26 stated here) nonetheless it was useful to quickly clean up the section. "Pyros are good allies. They can help remove Sappers from Buildings using the Homewrecker or the Maul." on the Engie's page is a good example.

Keeping that section clean will be a nightmare, just like the Trivia. Should we have it back? --Kid Of The Century 08:03, 3 August 2011 (PDT)

EDIT: Concept time. Feedback's welcome. --Kid Of The Century 01:39, 4 August 2011 (PDT)

EDIT 2: Seb26 suggested a way that could please everyone, and personally I approve that. Take a look below.--Kid Of The Century 01:37, 7 August 2011 (PDT)

 Yes. How about adding all official tips (for every language) and then protect it? When new tips are added, just unprotect it, add them, and protect it again. SackZement (Talk) 08:12, 3 August 2011 (PDT)

 Comment Any way it could be made into a table, and then just protect the table from editing? Balladofwindfishes 08:15, 3 August 2011 (PDT)

Well, I guess so. We should come up with a proper layout though, just using the usual table model for a list might look bad.--Kid Of The Century 01:20, 4 August 2011 (PDT)

 Oppose You said it yourself: "Keeping that section clean will be a nightmare". The instant you put up tips, ever Tom, Dick and Harry thinks to themselves "I HAVE THE BEST TIP" and they go to add it. It's annoying to keep clean and you can't really blame them for adding their stuff. Even then, the tips don't really add anything to the page. Their only distinction is that they're in the game. Anything worth saying about any given weapon has very likely been said in its respective Community Strategy page. -- - _{(talk | contribs)} -- 01:50, 4 August 2011 (PDT)

I'm not really sure what you're talking about: are you suggesting we should just scrap the section altogether? I personally wouldn't, but it'd be better than keep that mess. --Kid Of The Century 02:47, 4 August 2011 (PDT)

As i said, it will not be a nightmare if we protect the template. SackZement (Talk) 03:51, 4 August 2011 (PDT)

 Neutral – I think the basic strategy tips should probably be copied to the dictionary (to prevent duplication of certain lines, for example the "Press E for Medic" line which appears on each page), but it is not a good idea to simply protect the page to stop people from adding things. {{Basic strategy}} was made like this last time and for months there were translations being made on the talk page because the page was protected. Protection doesn't work as well as it sounds and it will stop valid edits from translators (and not just people wanting to add their own tips). A better solution would to simply have each line in the dictionary, each set of lines in the dictionary (to avoid a #switch with Scout, Soldier, etc) and then on each page add {{Basic strategy}} again. seb26 00:14, 5 August 2011 (PDT)

 Comment. I support this dictionary idea. Let's see if people find their way through to add custom tips. SackZement (Talk) 00:30, 5 August 2011 (PDT)

 Agree I don't know how this dictionary thing actually works, but probably this is the best suggestion to please everyone. While at it, I'd suggest also to rename the section from "Basic Strategy" to "In-game tips" to better specify that the section is for official tips only.--Kid Of The Century 01:35, 7 August 2011 (PDT)

New Section Suggestion

I think that we should add a new section to the wiki front page, it would be small and would show "This month 1 year ago" "This month 2 years ago" and would show a small summary of important things that happened in Team Fortress 2 at that time. Such as "This month 2 year ago... The classless update was released. The Classless Update was the first non-class specific major update. The content focus of the update differed from previous updates; instead of introducing new weapons or achievements, the Classless Update added new hats, game modes and maps, while also delivering a large number of bug fixes and minor tweaks to existing gameplay."

I am open to suggestion and I hope that people like my idea. Chef Tony 04:14, 5 August 2011 (PDT)

Quite like this idea, but id want to see it in either side panels or boxouts rather than in main text. -- Swarfega  T  C  10:14, 5 August 2011 (PDT)

Might be tough to maintain manually, but a little database and a bot might handle it okay. Certainly worth considering. -RJ 10:18, 5 August 2011 (PDT)

I personally don't think it would be that high maintenance as you think. I was able to get information on 1 and 2 years in about 5 minutes. Chef Tony 10:27, 5 August 2011 (PDT)

I agree, if it only changes monthly it shouldn't be too hard to add some interesting information manually. Balladofwindfishes 15:35, 6 August 2011 (PDT)

Availability for stock weapons

As suggested by User:Balladofwindfishes on the IRC channel, should we start putting "Uncrate" on the stock weapons infoboxes?  –  Ohyeahcrucz [T][C] 16:55, 6 August 2011 (PDT)

Technically a Shotgun and Pistol are uncrateable. Personally, I think "uncrate" and then a tooltip about it being a strange weapon might be worth considering. Balladofwindfishes 16:55, 6 August 2011 (PDT)

I am in favor of "Uncrate: Yes (tooltip this is uncratable in strange form) et cetera --SilverHammer 17:45, 6 August 2011 (PDT)

Quakecon nav box

Other promotional's such as grordbort victory pack have nav boxes. So why can't this promotion have a nav box? should it? - Lexar - talk 17:44, 8 August 2011 (PDT)

Well, with the QuakeCon update, we aren't getting a multitude of items, like with Dr.Grordbort's Victory Pack, we are only getting The Original. So, that's why there is not navigation box. TheTimesAndQueriesOfMyAss 17:46, 8 August 2011 (PDT)

Plus the Pip-Boy, Tamrielic Relic, Wingstick, Anger.  –  Cructo [T][C] 17:49, 8 August 2011 (PDT)

The update wasn't much different than the Summer Sale, which has a nav. I fully agree the update should have a nav, it added a bunch of content related to a specific event (QuakeCon) which is basically similar to the Summer Sale with slightly less items and a shorter sale. Balladofwindfishes 17:51, 8 August 2011 (PDT)

Here is what it would look like (excuse the title its not in the dictionary because it hasn't got a page of its own).

I may have forgotten a few thing in it. The main idea is that we can get a nav box. change the colors all you like, this is just a basic layout. - Lexar - talk 18:14, 8 August 2011 (PDT)

Something about that seems scattered and unorganized, which is kind of funny since it's organized just like any other nav. Balladofwindfishes 18:35, 8 August 2011 (PDT)

I don't think a nav box is necessary or warranted; the Dr. Grordbort nav box makes sense since it was content that was created specifically for TF2 that is independent of anything else and was its own update, while some of the promo items from the most recent sale are from games that weren't even part of the QuakeCon package (they just happened to be on sale) at the same time). Given that, the Original is really the only real promo item, and that does not warrant a nav box of its own. ButteredToast 11:28, 9 August 2011 (PDT)

All items included were part of the QuakeCon event. The promo wasn't just for the package. On the wiki, we shouldn't make the call on what is a "real" promo or not. The fact remains the items are all promo items that all fit under a very specific theme. Such a criteria is also why we have the Summer Camp Nav and Shogun Nav Balladofwindfishes 11:30, 9 August 2011 (PDT)

I have to agree with TheTimesAndQueriesOfMyAss; the other games that happened to be on sale (such as Brink and From Dust) weren't necessarily part of the package, and just happened to be on sale at the same time as the QuakeCon package (and had promotional items). Steam has sales on software all the time, but not every sale warrants a nav box. ButteredToast 12:14, 9 August 2011 (PDT)

Nobody was talking about putting the From Dust promo into a nav. Brink was a major part of the QuakeCon sale and had an entire day dedicated to it, plus free DLC launched just for it. Brink was also made by Bethesda, who had the majority of the promos items and ad space during the event. And for the record, we do have navs for every major sale (as this was) tied to promo items. Both the Steam treasure hunt and Summer Sale have navs including their items. We don't need navs for midweek madness or daily deals, but the Quakecon sale was a massive sale that spanned 5 days and was directly related to a special event. All the promos added last friday were released for the purposes of that event. Balladofwindfishes 12:18, 9 August 2011 (PDT)

The point I was making with the From Dust reference is the fact that there can be sales of other things (that include promo items) that go on at the same time that aren't necessarily included in a sale or set; you even acknowledged this yourself after I made the point, but won't hold the other games or promo items to the same standard despite the fact that they weren't all part of the same package. That aside, just because something was "done before" does not necessarily mean that it is correct or should be continued; a lot of things that are done on a Wiki are typically done because someone else did it or some variation of it before, but it does not always serve as an ample justification or precedent. ButteredToast 13:32, 9 August 2011 (PDT)

Wikifier

Hello everyone! For more than 1 month, the wikifier script has helped the Russian Team to write articles. It a button that appears on the edit page, that calls a script when clicked. When you click the button, the Wikifier script fixes common mistakes in the article (the button only shows in the wiki editor, and you can preview what it does). For example, it puts the correct russian quotes («...» and “...” inside them), the right spaces after and before punctuation symbols (It will replace “Здравствуй , сударь ! ” by “Здравствуй, сударь!”), and fix wiki and HTML marking, etc. It is like WindBOT working in your browser. Wind and I want to make this script global. To do this, I need to know what do you, localization teams, want it to do? Can you tell me some your language-specific punctuation and typographic rules? Common mistakes that editors in your language do? --Daniil 23:58, 14 August 2011 (PDT)

 Support I like dis new weapon :3 — Wind 00:02, 15 August 2011 (PDT)

 Support This is good applicable to the german language. SackZement (Talk) 01:15, 15 August 2011 (PDT)

 Support Very good idea. The Spanish team would certainly see benefit to the Wikifier. BiBi 04:11, 15 August 2011 (PDT)

 Support Iz Really Good ! Especialy when french punctuation adds spaces where other languages doesn't ! I approve of this, it sure will be useful for every localisation. Tturbo _{( / )} 08:48, 15 August 2011 (PDT)

• Okay. Here we go. Local teams, please read your local discussion. --Daniil 13:20, 17 August 2011 (PDT)

New update?

I just got the typical "Steam has finished downloading Team Fortress 2" message. No, I did not recently start reinstalling TF2. I do believe an update has occurred, gentleman. Why has nobody said anything about this yet? 404 User Not Found 15:00, 15 August 2011 (PDT)

Oh special, my TF2 is crashing on load now. What did Valve do now? 404 User Not Found 15:00, 15 August 2011 (PDT)

Because it just patched, be more patient we don't get thing done before we know when they happen. Also, I doubt this is appropriate discussion, of course updates are going to happen. - nixshadow (t|c) 15:02, 15 August 2011 (PDT)

Yeah, it's totally appropriate discussion. No two ways about it....or however that saying goes... 404 User Not Found 15:03, 15 August 2011 (PDT)

If it was this page would be filled with over 100 topics about 9 mb updates. - nixshadow (t|c) 15:04, 15 August 2011 (PDT)

.....Touche. 404 User Not Found 15:06, 15 August 2011 (PDT)

Getting item contributors involved: The Concept and Design section

So I was looking around the Wiki and right now we're basically set with gameplay stuff on the English pages. This site is packed to the brim with weapon stats, paint images, etc. And those are great! But a lot of people, myself included, like to know more about the design of TF2 and the items in it. I've already started to outreach with the groundwork of this idea by collecting concept art from contributors, but I feel we can go further. Right now we have some trivia elements like "this item was originally named blah blah and had blah blah as a texture" and for many article, that's okay. But many, many items have much longer, more detailed designs behind them. The Tomislav for example, went through 3 or 4 revisions (which we have images of, we have pages of critiques from others on the item). In March the contributor was contacted by Valve stating they wanted the item in the game. The creator is the youngest contributor of TF2 items ever, and this is a fact Valve has toted. A nice bunch of paragraphs could easily be written outlining the development history of Tomislav. And then there's the Shogun pack. There's an entire history of that shogun pack hidden deep in Kritzkast's archives that we only start to mention. Stuff like Sega contacting all of the polycount winners and Laro being the only one to actually respond. Sega specifically wanting Geisha hair for medic.

This also ties in with another problem I noticed. We have this large group of people who directly own a portion of this game, and are easily approachable, and yet we neglect this wealth of information that could easily fill up interesting sections. All these contributed hats and weapons lacking any sort of meaningful trivia, despite the creator standing right there, ready to be contacted and asked questions.

Obviously not every page would need such a section, but for many items, the story of the item is just not nearly as interesting in one line of trivia. I feel like as a TF2 wiki, we can remain true to the gameplay of the game while still adding things people would expect and find interesting on a wiki. Outside of game stories.

Right here is the Shiv article redone with the new section and removed redundant design trivia.

Please think about this a bit before just saying no. This is something not many game wikis have the luxury of doing. We're unique in that we have the community who designs large portions of the game and are easily approachable. Let's not ignore that resource. Balladofwindfishes 18:30, 16 August 2011 (PDT)

 Support We need stuff like that, makes the article more interesting.  –  Cructo [T][C] 18:37, 16 August 2011 (PDT)

 Neutral It's an interesting idea, but I think that it would be useful to canvass (I can use buzzwords too! ;)) the community, perhaps using the Steam Fora initially, in order to gauge the level of interest. If there is community support, then that would indicate that the content would be of interest and would be worth compiling. --- Esquilax 18:39, 16 August 2011 (PDT)

I can ask Facepunch, Polycount and SUF and feel out the interest, if more people think this is an issue. FP/Polycount might be valuable places to gauge interest on a contributor level, especially since that's where 99% of the information for the section would come from. Balladofwindfishes 18:41, 16 August 2011 (PDT)

 SupportI second the notion of getting contributers more involved. The developement of the games items etc. is just as, if not more, interesting as the gameplay ****BC^talk 18:43, 16 August 2011 (PDT)

 Comment Daimao and Nzdjh both thought it was a good idea, plus Political Gamer seems interesting in getting map contributors on board. Balladofwindfishes 06:17, 17 August 2011 (PDT)

Well, here's a Sandbox of my idea, with the Shiv written out. The Shiv is nice because it's got a good source of development history. Here is the Shiv article redone with the new section and removed redundant design trivia. Balladofwindfishes 08:14, 17 August 2011 (PDT)

 Support I found that very interesting to read and don't think it detracted from the article at all. However, I think the positioning of the section was a bit off, I think it may be better if the section was moved to below say the Achievements section? I feel it's more important to have all the information relevant to actual gameplay presented first, before a section on the item's history is presented. -Mr. Magoolachub 19:12, 17 August 2011 (PDT)

Alright, I changed up the order a bit, does lit look better now? Balladofwindfishes 11:29, 17 August 2011 (PDT)

Much better :D -Mr. Magoolachub 19:12, 17 August 2011 (PDT)

I'm hesitant to begin working on more though, I'd really like some more input. Balladofwindfishes 09:21, 18 August 2011 (PDT)

The section, revised. Fixed some inaccuracies, moved information around to make it flow better. If anyone wants to proofread this as well, by all means, proceed. maggosh 10:14, 18 August 2011 (PDT)

Wow Maggosh, you knocked it out of the park! Balladofwindfishes 12:21, 18 August 2011 (PDT)

Why thank you. maggosh 06:42, 19 August 2011 (PDT)

 Support Everything in this discussion I have agreed with. You have my full support. MogDog66 01:45, 28 August 2011 (PDT)

Hat levels in articles

With recent update we got an ability to see hat levels in-game. But we still have "Level 1-100" in articles (unless this is a special case). I suggest change this to "Level 1-100 Hat" where possible. DrAkcel ^{(T | C)} 00:28, 19 August 2011 (PDT)

This can be changed in {{Item infobox}} so that hats with no other specific levels can be displayed as "Level 1-100 Hat". I'll edit this now so people don't have to edit every hat page. seb26 03:19, 19 August 2011 (PDT)

Ok  Done seb26 03:33, 19 August 2011 (PDT)

Added Team Fortress skins removed

Today I edited all of the skins from Team Fortress to make them presentable (They are the actual skins from the model, the game shows only whats in the UV map, however it is still shown in the skin), and after getting permission on the IRC, to upload them, I proceeded to do so and then edited the page to include the newly uploaded images.

They were removed unfortunately. I'm unsure why, as Team Fortress Classic images are there, as well as Team Fortress 2 images, so why not Team Fortress as well?

Thank you.

TeamXlink 10:30, 19 August 2011 (PDT)

Only your Sniper image on the Sniper page was removed... they're still on all the other pages so I guess you can put it back for sake of consistency. -RJ 11:09, 19 August 2011 (PDT)

But none of them should be there at all. They're really unneeded, shoehorned in. I mean really, we don't have their TF2 textures up in the galleries, it's just unnecessary. The models that use the textures are included in the galleries, they're the first images for every one. I took care to make sure they were all in chronological order. --SilverHammer 18:28, 24 August 2011 (PDT)

"Added new Weapon:" Or "Added Weapon:"

I've noticed an inconsistency in the update history of the classes. Sometimes it will say "Added new Weapon:" other times it will say "Added Weapon:".

Which should I be using?

Thank you.

TeamXlink 10:31, 19 August 2011 (PDT)

The great Wiki clock!

Hey guys. Check out the clock at the top of the page at The Portal Wiki. Do you guys think this is worth implementing on the TF Wiki? The difference being instead of displaying UTC, it would display PDT as PDT is the timezone used for talk-page signatures; this would give a quick reference point when seeing how long ago a comment was added - useful for users in timezones other than PDT.

Bear in mind this can be implemented per-user via a user's User:SomeUser/vector.js file. This discussion's whether or not it should be implemented site-wide. Yay or Nay? -RJ 15:07, 19 August 2011 (PDT)

 Yes I suggested it, bcuz I love it. -RJ 15:07, 19 August 2011 (PDT)

 No Unneeded. You can just check your clock.  –  Cructo [T][C] 15:08, 19 August 2011 (PDT)

 No The .01 seconds it takes to look at the bottom right of my monitor will continue to suffice. SS2R 15:10, 19 August 2011 (PDT)

 Comment Consider that not everybody's time-zone is PDT. I'm UTC - I'd have to go and find out how many hours back PDT is and then invent math. This would provide the same reference your clock does for users in other timezones. -RJ 15:12, 19 August 2011 (PDT)

I can't see any reason why it's important to know when a response was made on a talk page. The important things are WHO responded and what the beef is of what they say. I could care less if they said it at 12:01am or 4:16pm. SS2R 15:20, 19 August 2011 (PDT)

 Oppose I don't like that clock >: It changes every second, which attract my eyes to there, thus distracts me from the article. And no I'm not in the PDT time zone either — Wind 18:53, 19 August 2011 (PDT)

 Comment I don't like the clock, but i find cache purging very useful DrAkcel ^{(T | C)} 00:43, 20 August 2011 (PDT)

 Neutral I like bells and whistles as much as the next guy, but I don't think I'd miss it if it weren't there. -- - _{(talk | contribs)} -- 06:39, 20 August 2011 (PDT)

 Yes Great idea. Plummaster 06:41, 20 August 2011 (PDT)

 Support "What was that, Sandvich? Put a clock? Good idea!" Now seriously: most members probably never thought of it, but have you tried keeping track of long discussions on talk pages? Specially when they have no signature, people place signatures without ~~~~ etc? It's tough as hell. Specially when you're trying to place {{unsigned}} templates and such. Also, I keep a list of translations to be done for PT-BR, and you have no idea how hard it is to place time marks without having a perfectly synched built-in computer clock compared to the Wiki clock, which is shared by all members. Most of you might not even notice these stuff, but they do make the difference on active discussions.  –  Epic Eric (T | C) 08:44, 20 August 2011 (PDT)

 No – a clock thing on recent changes would be OK but I think it would be annoying on every page and especially to readers who probably won't find it that useful. I also have my own utc clock already :3 seb26 15:20, 20 August 2011 (PDT)

 Oppose Unnecessary, and easily overlooked even if implemented. coreycubed / talk 07:15, 22 August 2011 (PDT)

 Oppose That clock shows the wrong time for me anyway so meaningless. -- Swarfega  T  C  04:15, 25 August 2011 (PDT)

Tournament Medals article seperation

Currently the Tournament Medal pages have a shared page for all ranks of medals. It would probably be best to separate them, but I'm going to go ahead and take a consensus on if this should be done, and if so, should it be done now, or when the medals are released? - nixshadow (t|c) 02:50, 20 August 2011 (PDT)

 Support We have separate pages for Duel badges and ID badges, so, i don't see any reason we created only one page for these DrAkcel ^{(T | C)} 02:52, 20 August 2011 (PDT)

 Oppose I'm against it, but only because I prefer the opposite action take place. I think that the Dueling Badges and 119th medals should have been consolidated into just two respective pages. That said though, I'm still somewhat opposed to it because it would mean creating a ridiculous number of nearly identical pages for the sake of consistency. There are 10 UGC medals, 3 GWJ medals and 4 ETF2L medals; that's 17 new pages all nearly identical pages created. I'm not against it just because it's a lot of work (which admittedly someone else will do), but because I can't fathom how the Wiki would benefit in any way from it. Who's really going to say: "Thank God for this separate article. Now I know what these two slightly different silver-coloured UGC badges look like and can compare them side-by-side"? So, I say no. Anyone going solely for consistency might want to consider instead consolidating the other badge pages. -- - _{(talk | contribs)} -- 07:21, 20 August 2011 (PDT)

 Oppose Alex2539 said pretty much everything I wanted to say. 17 practically identical pages is counter-productive. I would also support the merging of the duelling badges and 119th medal articles. —Moussekateer·talk 12:15, 20 August 2011 (PDT)

 Oppose – there is nothing different at all about any of the new medals apart from their picture, and these are noted in the gallery section. 17 new pages for the sake of 'consistency' is a waste of time and effort seb26 15:20, 20 August 2011 (PDT)

 Oppose, for the earlier mentioned reasons by Alex2539, plus a new one; I am a translator. I am not particularly inclined into having to basically translate the same page 17 times. When you can copy paste a page from another page and change just the names and a sentence, you know that they are better off merged. Like Moussekateer, I'd also support the merger of the duelling badges and the 119th medal articles. Additionally, I'd also like to see the propaganda hats remerged again with their normal counterparts. Sometimes less is just more. -- Hefaistus - talk 03:55, 21 August 2011 (PDT)

 Oppose Splitting them up only creates a large number of pages and makes navigating around them more cumbersome than needed. Not worth it for the sake of consistency. MogDog66 01:45, 28 August 2011 (PDT)

New paint table

I created a new version of Paint can table, that can be seen here User:DrAkcel/Sandbox2. The main template is here. Any comments on this? DrAkcel ^{(T | C)} 09:00, 21 August 2011 (PDT)

 Oppose I like the overall design of the table, but it doesn't fit the schema used on other pages (color, formentioned design). real_alien (T/C) 09:05, 21 August 2011 (PDT)

 Comment I agree with alien. The layout is pretty nice and more importantly, space saving. Just not sure if the design and colors will fit with the rest of the wiki. MogDog66 01:45, 28 August 2011 (PDT)

TF2 Crafting Tool

Roebuck5996 11:20, 21 August 2011 (PDT)

Hey I'm new to the wiki and just trying to throw an idea out there. I don't know how we could get this to fully work but ill just see if the idea attracts anyone.

Alright, so basically an online crafting tool. When new updates come out and the recipes are trying to be found, why not have an online crafting tool where you can test different recipes without wasting your precious guns on tokens or angering yourself by not having the certain gun it could need to craft. There might be a crafting tool online, but adding one that could be used in the wiki would be very convenient. Just another reason to visit the wiki.

I'm just throwing this idea out there. Any feedback would be appreciated!

Thanks!

-Roebuck5996

Every recipe can be seen in item schema, so we have no need to "waste" metal. DrAkcel ^{(T | C)} 11:11, 21 August 2011 (PDT)

Hello. First, please sign your posts with ~~~~. Second, there's one here. Third, this is not what the Wiki is about.  –  Epic Eric (T | C) 11:12, 21 August 2011 (PDT)

(Hopefully im editing this right this time.) DrAkcel, im saying this could be used to figure out the recipes before they are published to the wiki, so they could be found quicker and put on the site quicker. Eric sorry about not signing the post, I'm new to the wiki and was not aware, also the site you posted is not loading for me for some reason. It was just a suggestion and I thought that it would fit in with the site, sorry about the misinterpretation.Roebuck5996 11:20, 21 August 2011 (PDT)

You can use Will It Craft? for this purpose as well. Hope that helps :) coreycubed / talk 08:00, 22 August 2011 (PDT)

I see what you're getting at, but the crafting recipes haven't needed to be "found" for a while now. Ever since the March 15, 2011 Patch every recipe is listed within TF2 on the crafting screen as soon as they are available. Instead of guessing, all we need to do is check the recipe list in-game when an item is added or made craftable. A tool like this would indeed have been useful at one time, but not anymore. -- - _{(talk | contribs)} -- 12:43, 22 August 2011 (PDT)

Standards for identical items

Looking through certain character's weapon lists (eg. Demoman + Pyro's melee slot), it is very messy when you consider that half of the weapons are identical (Eyelander = HHHT = Nessie's 9 Iron, Bottle = Frying Pan = Saxxy etc.). For example, the demoman's melee page:

Weapon	Kill Icon	Ammo Loaded	Ammo Carried	Damage Range	Notes / Special Abilities
Stock Bottle		N/A	N/A	Base: 65 Crit: 195	The Bottle will break upon a successful Critical hit (purely cosmetic feature).
Unlock Eyelander		N/A	N/A	Base: 65 Crit: 195	Has 37% longer melee range.  Every killing blow decapitates the enemy, increasing its head counter. Every head taken raises user's speed (7.5%) and health points (15) to a maximum of 4 times each life.  Lowers maximum health by 25 points.  No random Critical hits.
Craft Pain Train		N/A	N/A	Base: 65 Crit: 195	Doubles capture power for points and carts.  Raises bullet vulnerability by 10%.
Craft Scotsman's Skullcutter		N/A	N/A	Base: 78 Crit: 234	Has 37% longer melee range.  Deals 20% more damage.  Lowers speed by 15% on wearer.
Promotional Frying Pan		N/A	N/A	Base: 65 Crit: 195	Same as the Bottle's attributes.
Craft Horseless Headless Horsemann's Headtaker		N/A	N/A	Base: 65 Crit: 195	Halloween item.  Same as the Eyelander's attributes.
Craft Claidheamh Mòr		N/A	N/A	Base: 65 Crit: 195	Has 37% longer melee range.  Charge duration is increased by 0.5 second.  Decreases max health by 15.  No random Critical hits.
Craft Ullapool Caber		N/A	N/A	Base: 35 + 149 1 Crit: 105 + 300 1	On hit the grenade's 'head' will explode dealing melee damage to the enemy and explosive damage to the user and all enemies around him. The explosion can be triggered also by hitting solid parts of the map and will launch the user upward. Afterwards, it will show signs of damage and will be able to deal only the melee damage and won't explode again until the user respawns or visits a resupply cabinet.  No random Critical hits.
Promotional / Craft Half-Zatoichi		N/A	N/A	Base: 65 Crit: 195	On kill, restores the player to full health.  This weapon is Honorbound and once drawn cannot be sheathed until it kills.  A single successful hit will kill an enemy wielding the same weapon.
Distributed Saxxy		N/A	N/A	Base: 65 Crit: 195	Limited item from the Replay Update.  Killed enemies freeze into solid Australium statues (purely cosmetic feature).
Craft Persian Persuader		N/A	N/A	Base: 65 Crit: 195	Halves the time required to recharge a charge.  No random Critical hits.  All ammo collected converts into health.
Craft Nessie's Nine Iron		N/A	N/A	Base: 65 Crit: 195	Same as the Eyelander's attributes.

The line "Same as the ....'s attributes." is not very uncommon. It is obvious that there are clones, and thus I don't think that they should be treated as different objects, especially when treating them as the same causes visual clutter and, in my opinion, makes suggestions that aren't applicable. In combat of this, I propose something like this:

Weapon	Kill Icon	Ammo Loaded	Ammo Carried	Damage Range	Notes / Special Abilities
Stock Bottle		N/A	N/A	Base: 65 Crit: 195	The Bottle will break upon a successful Critical hit (purely cosmetic feature).
Promotional Frying Pan
Distributed Saxxy					Limited item from the Replay Update.  Killed enemies freeze into solid Australium statues (purely cosmetic feature).
Unlock Eyelander		N/A	N/A	Base: 65 Crit: 195	Has 37% longer melee range.  Every killing blow decapitates the enemy, increasing its head counter. Every head taken raises user's speed (7.5%) and health points (15) to a maximum of 4 times each life.  Lowers maximum health by 25 points.  No random Critical hits.
Craft Horseless Headless Horsemann's Headtaker1
Craft Nessie's Nine Iron
Craft Pain Train		N/A	N/A	Base: 65 Crit: 195	Doubles capture power for points and carts.  Raises bullet vulnerability by 10%.
Craft Scotsman's Skullcutter		N/A	N/A	Base: 78 Crit: 234	Has 37% longer melee range.  Deals 20% more damage.  Lowers speed by 15% on wearer.
Craft Claidheamh Mòr		N/A	N/A	Base: 65 Crit: 195	Has 37% longer melee range.  Charge duration is increased by 0.5 second.  Decreases max health by 15.  No random Critical hits.
Craft Ullapool Caber		N/A	N/A	Base: 35 + 149 2 Crit: 105 + 300 2	On hit the grenade's 'head' will explode dealing melee damage to the enemy and explosive damage to the user and all enemies around him. The explosion can be triggered also by hitting solid parts of the map and will launch the user upward. Afterwards, it will show signs of damage and will be able to deal only the melee damage and won't explode again until the user respawns or visits a resupply cabinet.  No random Critical hits.
Promotional / Craft Half-Zatoichi		N/A	N/A	Base: 65 Crit: 195	On kill, restores the player to full health.  This weapon is Honorbound and once drawn cannot be sheathed until it kills.  A single successful hit will kill an enemy wielding the same weapon.
Craft Persian Persuader		N/A	N/A	Base: 65 Crit: 195	Halves the time required to recharge a charge.  No random Critical hits.  All ammo collected converts into health.

This has practical applications for all classes, particularly the scout, pyro, engineer, soldier and demoman. I realise that the fact that the HHHT has a giant name makes them both look rather unaesthetic. Nevertheless, it is still an improvement.

The way items would be grouped would be primarily, the unique weapons would be arranged in order of release date. All weapons which fall under the category of "clone" would then be tucked into its position. This point is relatively questionable, as it is understandable for the newest weapons to be at the bottom, regardless of their (non)unique nature. Perhaps initially, new clones start at the bottom before moving into its correct position after a new update.

Obviously, alongside a change like this, questions regarding what really makes an item identical (eg. is the Saxxy the same as the default melee weapon? Is the amputator the same as the bonesaw?) Before moving onto questions like these however, public opinion must be in favour. Start supporting! DVDV 00:40, 22 August 2011 (PDT)

By the way, if this goes ahead, I want to implement it. I want a hat :P DVDV 01:42, 22 August 2011 (PDT)

 All the way!. its a lot better then for example to maul description "see homewrecker" either copy paste or group them, don't make things more tedious. This is why i agree with this change. - Lexar - talk 00:34, 22 August 2011 (PDT)

 Support I like the way this looks, it makes sense to group what are essentially the same items together. -Mr. Magoolachub 00:36, 22 August 2011 (PDT)

 Neutral Pros are obvious, but I find the lack of a chronological order disturbing *force grip*. Either to have a cake or eat it. real_alien (T/C) 00:55, 22 August 2011 (PDT)

Don't forget that it still retains some chronology. If you look at the second last paragraph, it's still retained as a secondary sorting method. Don't forget that the date in which the weapon came out is shown on its page. For those looking for new weapons, I made a suggestion which could be used in order to find the more recent weapons.DVDV 01:42, 22 August 2011 (PDT)

 Support non-redundancy > chronological order SackZement (Talk) 01:04, 22 August 2011 (PDT)

 Support Looks way better and more organised. Flamedrac0 07:03, 22 August 2011 (PDT)

 Support And here I was all set to complain about two massive tables on the talk page. That is really cool and how it probably should have been done from the beginning. coreycubed / talk 07:19, 22 August 2011 (PDT)

 Support This does look alot better than the current layout, it also groups the same kind of items together, i like!! T-Wayne 09:41, 22 August 2011 (PDT)

 Support Looks a lot more organized, and it would separate the clone weapons from the ones that are different rather well. -- 10:11, 22 August 2011 (PDT)

 Support Like what others have said, this looks more organized and there's really no reason I can think of not to implement it. RagnarHomsar 15:38, 22 August 2011 (PDT)

 Probably While it doesn't make sense as alphabetical/"regular" chronological orders would, it's a lot easier to see, examine, and compare.  –  Epic Eric (T | C) 15:46, 22 August 2011 (PDT)

I'm gonna :  Disagree because it's awkward to look at. A jumbled mess. However, I would be able to  Support a sorter that defaults to release order. --SilverHammer 21:26, 22 August 2011 (PDT)

Oh yes, a sorter would be a good idea. real_alien (T/C) 23:57, 22 August 2011 (PDT)

An option to sort by release date would require another column for dates though. If we're trying to make more organised, adding extra columns seems rather redundant to me. DVDV 00:08, 23 August 2011 (PDT)

The way I see things, the only time chronological order would be required would be if the player is not new to the game and is wanting to know about a recent update. Under these circumstances, leaving the new clone at the bottom until a reasonable time has elapsed would fix the problem. Let's face it, do you really need Mailbox to be at the end when you know what it does?DVDV 00:09, 23 August 2011 (PDT)

 Neutral It's certainly not worse than the current layout, but it's not quite perfect either. The 4 right columns all look stretched out and weird. I'm not against implementing this but a complete, more compact redesign might be what the doctor ordered here. It certainly makes sense though, I'll give you that. -- - _{(talk | contribs)} -- 01:20, 23 August 2011 (PDT)

I think that the HHHT has a big impact on that. If you had a look at it for someone like Pyro, it'd look way better. DVDV 01:39, 23 August 2011 (PDT)

The Bottle/Pan/Saxxy columns look just as odd to me. -- - _{(talk | contribs)} -- 01:42, 23 August 2011 (PDT)

 Neutral I'm going to say neutral for this, but I am leaning more towards no. I think it is WAY MORE important to have them chronological than pretty. SS2R 01:21, 23 August 2011 (PDT)

 Neutral Page becomes kinda empty, doesn't it? --Daniil 23:13, 23 August 2011 (PDT)

Empty? It's about reducing clutter!

Balloon birthday standard for server ?

In the german version are atm ballons instead of the bloody death of an enemy. I played on 2 competitive server, and no configs were altered to this. Is this a new feature for a day or two, why is that? TheDoctor(without a small pic) 16:10, 23 August 2011 (PDT)

It should be. Why? Of cource for players. Most of admins are too lazy to update server configs, but players want to play with new holiday update right after realese. This is my opinion. :3 --Daniil 23:09, 23 August 2011 (PDT)

Birthday mode is automatically activated on August 24, the release date of the original Team Fortress in 1996. -- Netshroud (talk | contribs) 23:11, 23 August 2011 (PDT)

'Community Dustbowl strategy' cleanup.

I can see that the 'Community Dustbowl strategy' page is bit too long. Does anyone else think that we should add collapsible tables for each of the class strategy, so to make the page more compact and and easer for the user to navigate? — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ben590 (talk) • (contribs) 06:07, 24 August 2011 (PDT)

Can you make an example to see how will it look? --Daniil 06:18, 24 August 2011 (PDT)

They could be similar to the examples on the Wikipedia article. — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ben590 (talk) • (contribs) 06:34, 24 August 2011 (PDT)

Should we keel these

Each class gallery currently has a texture file from TF tacked on to the end of it. I do not think these are needed, considering they are very low quality, are already present in the first image of every class gallery, and just don't fit in well. Why would we have these textures when we don't have the TF2 class textures. Add those, and the gallery would just look... creepy, I guess. Keep or remove? --SilverHammer 12:57, 25 August 2011 (PDT)

 Yes keel - if we already have pics of the TF characters then they're redundant. -RJ 13:04, 25 August 2011 (PDT)

 Oppose While not directly related to Team Fortress 2, it is relevant to the series. I think you might be surprised at the amount of people who don't know there were previous versions of tf2, much less that we have one of them very well documented on the wiki. And in addition, I think it's just interesting in general to see the scout (or any class for that matter) on the page as a sort of "visual progression" in the game series. MogDog66 21:47, 25 August 2011 (PDT)

 Oppose If I'm not mistaken, the first image shows two TFC skins while that last one is the QTF texture. You can tell just by looking that they are different and I agree with MogDog that they represent the progression of Team Fortress. I think they should stay. Although ideally, they would be properly mapped onto models instead of just showing the textures. -- - _{(talk | contribs)} -- 22:01, 25 August 2011 (PDT)

 Oppose It's a memento. Definitely keep it. — The preceding unsigned comment was added by DVDV (talk) • (contribs)

While not entirely identical, they are pretty much completely the same. They look completely awkward. If these are worth keeping, then we should add the regular class textures as well. There are articles for the TF classes, aren't there? A "memento"? That's just a terrible reason. --SilverHammer 09:20, 26 August 2011 (PDT)

 Oppose They're not low quality, it's just a game from the mid 90s... that's the quality of the texture itself. It's also the best possible way to show the Quake Fortress players. Balladofwindfishes 09:22, 26 August 2011 (PDT)

Best possible way? How about, I don't know, the actual models? Isn't there a Quakee Fortress article? --SilverHammer 09:24, 26 August 2011 (PDT)

Quake doesn't have a good, solid model viewer as far as I know of, so images of the classes taken in-game probably wouldn't be that high of quality. Balladofwindfishes 09:31, 26 August 2011 (PDT)

 Oppose If we have TFC images then we should have TF images.  –  Cructo [T][C] 09:26, 26 August 2011 (PDT)

You're missing the point. They're flat, ugly textures. --SilverHammer 19:21, 27 August 2011 (PDT)

Ugly or not, I still find them interesting and relevant. As far as I'm concerned model textures from the 90's "looking bad" isn't a reason for them to be removed. MogDog66 20:44, 27 August 2011 (PDT)

I agree they're ugly and the best possible solution would be those textures applied to models, like the TFC shots. However, until someone does that those images are the best we have and are as notable as any of the other images in the gallery. -- - _{(talk | contribs)} --

Strange Weapons

Now that strange weapons are starting to track additional criteria other than (or in addition to) kills, such as ubers + assists, sentry kills, sodden players, etc... Would it be a reasonable idea to simply add a small sub-section to the page for each weapon called something to the effect of "Strange variant", and just explain what the strange version of the weapon tracks, or any other strange version-specific information? This information is not included anywhere in the wiki as of yet, as far as I was able to find, so putting it as a sub-section on the page for each original weapon seems logical to me. Thoughts? Noibn 10:26, 26 August 2011 (PDT)

The Jarate page already has this section. Balladofwindfishes 10:28, 26 August 2011 (PDT)

This was added to a few pages already like Jarate, Wrench and Jag. They were removed a couple of times (not in the weapon guidelines apparently) but I re-added it because it's definitely important to note and it shouldn't be placed in the lead section nor Trivia. seb26 14:53, 26 August 2011 (PDT)

Those should only be added on stranges that have a special criteria to raise their kill count (Jarate->Throwing;Medigun->Assisting while healing), while weapons that only need one to kill somebody like the miniguns or snipers etc should be clear to anyone. My humble opinion. T-Wayne 02:32, 27 August 2011 (PDT)

OK thanks, looks like you guys (or someone) took care of it since I posted this question. However, in the interest of completeness and consistency (this IS a wiki, after all), I still think that any weapon that has a strange variant should have a section added to its page, even if the criteria is just "kills". Aside from the consistency aspect if it, the information that would go there is still helpful (what crates it comes from, etc). Noibn 12:49, 29 August 2011 (PDT)

Moving the "Community Class Match-Ups" Sections

After spending an eternity today trying to clean-up the Community Heavy strategy, I got around to thinking about a couple of things about the Community Strategies: the "Community Class Match Ups". This section, on each page, seems to me that it's misplaced. I've thought of three solutions to this:

Move each section to the Class Match-up page under "Community Class Match-Ups".

Move each to its own separate page, like the Basic Class Strategy pages vs. Community Class Strategy pages.

Axe them entirely, like I talked about on the IRC, since they seem mostly redundant.

Thoughts? RagnarHomsar 20:07, 27 August 2011 (PDT)

There's already a class match up page, so the list on the community class page is redundant and unnecessary. That list should be merged with the preexisting match-up page and be removed from the community class pages. MogDog66 20:39, 27 August 2011 (PDT)

Pirate Wiki

Huzzah, ye scallywags! Some of you may not know, but Steam Translation Server has support to Pirate language. Well, they are working on some translations there (specially for TF2), and their goal is to have most of it translated for the Talk-Like-a-Pirate Day (September 19th). Meanwhile, I thought it'd be fair to have it as an official language in the Wiki, because it's considered a language in Steam, and it'd allow users who only speak English to contribute in more than one way to the Wiki. Here is a poor demonstration of how the Main Page would look like in Pirate. If we get enough support and interested members, however, it could become a great and fun project. I've already contacted one of the Pirate mods and he says he'd be interested in taking part on this. So... what do you think of this?  –  Epic Eric (T | C) 08:04, 28 August 2011 (PDT)

 Aye It's my idea :P  –  Epic Eric (T | C) 08:04, 28 August 2011 (PDT)

 Support I think links should be /pir, not /pirate, but ye get us a good idea, i say! (yes, i don't know Pirate well, but STS will help me :D) DrAkcel ^{(T | C)} 08:10, 28 August 2011 (PDT)

/pirate is a placeholder. It could be either /pi, /pir or /arr, or something completely different.  –  Epic Eric (T | C) 08:14, 28 August 2011 (PDT)

arr wouldn't work because of arabic pages (ar).  –  Cructo [T][C] 08:16, 28 August 2011 (PDT)

We're 100% done with the main steam files, and the current focus is TF2, so I'd be game. --Stevoisiak 08:13, 28 August 2011 (PDT)

 Support It would give more work for english speakers, since the english wiki is pretty much done.  –  Cructo [T][C] 08:16, 28 August 2011 (PDT)

 Support Sounds good, but don't make the code to long. /pi or /pir should be fine. Macinzon 08:31, 28 August 2011 (PDT)

 No Strongly against. Provides no value to the wikis readers or its contributors & I can imagine it being a nightmare to manage. Wouldn't be worth the time & effort investment. -RJ 08:40, 28 August 2011 (PDT)

 Comment We support all languages that TF2 has support, so why shouldn't we support pirate? It provides no value to Steam users either for translating Steam into pirate, IMO.  –  Cructo [T][C] 08:43, 28 August 2011 (PDT)

Us like STS are publically editable. maintaining quality and consistency would take a ton of effort moreso than orher languages because 1: "pirate" is not an actual language, it doesnt have ser grammatical rules and 2: a huge amount of editors would flock to it because there's little else to edit (which in turn may cause our eyes to slip off keepinf the En side of quality) — The preceding unsigned comment was added by RJackson (talk) • (contribs)

 Comment If its that bad, maybe me and Vaught (Other pirate mod, putting words in his mouth right now) could manage it. Since we already work on pirate. --Stevoisiak 08:47, 28 August 2011 (PDT)

 Comment I would say just translate the Main Page and the other important pages that link from the Main page (i.e classes), then redirect the Main Page to the translated Pirate one on Pirate's Day, and after it change it back. Macinzon 08:52, 28 August 2011 (PDT)

 Support. /pir or /gtfo. - Aperture AI  · (Talk) 09:18, 28 August 2011 (PDT)

 Support Aye, eye, captain! Fyahweather 09:42, 28 August 2011 (PDT)

 Support And thar I be, ponderin' whether or na' our language woul' be accepted. At last! Aye I say! Aye! 09:44, 28 August 2011 (PDT)

 Comment I think if people would be willing to actually put their time into this, then alright, but I'm sort of with RJ on this. It's a fun language for Steam, but it's just going to be a pain in the ass on the wiki. People want information when they come here, not cheap laughs. If it starts up I'll help, but I don't really see how it is going to benefit the wiki. -- GenCoolio (talk | contribs) 10:43, 28 August 2011 (PDT)

 Neutral We support STS languages, so this, despite being silly, shouldn't be made an exception. However, I can see how it would be difficult to moderate and doesn't really serve a purpose. I kind of like the idea of just doing to main page and the class pages in Pirate, and only for a few days around September. Balladofwindfishes 10:56, 28 August 2011 (PDT)

 Comment If you are bored, do it, but i see no need to have a pirate-wiki. SackZement (Talk) 11:13, 28 August 2011 (PDT)

 Comment While I do agree with RJackson that it would be hell to maintain, it is indeed an STS language which give it some weight in terms of "languages" we should support. Since Pirate is pretty much imaginary (I'm not sure actual pirates even ever spoke that way), there would need to be a lot of discussion and collaboration on proper terminology and conventions. Also, since it is essentially a form of broken English it would become difficult to distinguish between crappy edits and edits that are simple conforming to "another form" of Pirate. I'm not against this - I've just applied to the STS as a "Pirate translator" just in case - but if it's done it can't be done as some half-assed "just for kicks" idea. Although it would all be in the spirit of fun for the readers, the editors behind it would need to be as serious about it as any legitimate language. In fact, I wouldn't be against making it the only translation with an ultimatum - if interest dwindles or it proves to have been just a fad, get rid of it entirely. If you guys are serious about this, then I'm on board. Otherwise, shut it down now. -- - _{(talk | contribs)} -- 11:44, 28 August 2011 (PDT)

 Is this a joke? -- Pilk ^(talk) 15:11, 28 August 2011 (PDT)

 Eh... – I think I would find it hard to turn down valid translators for Lithuanian or Vietnamese, but then turn around and accept a joke language (and the reason we don't accept those is because they don't have local files for tf2). Not all STS languages are supported either (Greek, Thai, etc) so just that it's on STS shouldn't mean it's a hands down overwhelming mandate for adding support for Pirate. seb26 22:57, 28 August 2011 (PDT)

 Oppose Being an STS language isn't the requirement; the requirement is that TF2 is localized in that language, which isn't the case right now. Even if it was, however, this would be quite a cost in maintenance/vandalism patrol/conflict resolution, with little benefit other than a few lols from time to time. To me, it feels like creating a large work and effort for too little benefit to be justified — Wind 23:01, 28 August 2011 (PDT)

 Comment TF2 does not support Arabic, but the TF2 wiki does. In addition, tf2 is 70% translated on STS, and will hopefully be 100% by talk like a pirate day. --Stevoisiak 10:34, 29 August 2011 (PDT)

 Neutral All depends how it's managed. I agree more with the effort =/= result arguments here opposing the Pirate wiki than the ones for it, but if there was a way whereby it didn't require hefty moderation and didn't take attention away from the 'actual' wiki, then I can't see why not. I'm just not sure how that would be possible though -Mr. Magoolachub 05:56, 29 August 2011 (PDT)

 Comment I don't see the sense in all honesty, why would we need piratish wiki translations?! But if you're up to spend your time translating into a language that died out few hundred years ago?! For my part, i'm busy enough translating the german stuff, so personally I think it's just a waste of your time which could be spend on more serious matters! T-Wayne 08:25, 29 August 2011 (PDT)

 Oppose Pyro language was a better idea than this... coreycubed / talk 08:31, 29 August 2011 (PDT)

 Nope.avi Pirate isn't an actual language, it's an accent. What is next? Are we going to translate the wiki into Posh British? German accented English? Australian? Major amount of work, little value. I'm gonna say no. -- Hefaistus - talk 09:13, 29 August 2011 (PDT)

 Narp It would be a nice idea for Talk like a pirate day, but not permanently. It would be too difficult to manage. » Cooper Kid (blether·contreebs) 09:17, 29 August 2011 (PDT)

 Support I'd be all for it. Seems like a fun idea. --Vaught 10:50, 29 August 2011 (PDT)

tf2wiki.net is the first result in google

can we figure out a way to make wiki.teamfortress/com the first result in google when searching for "tf2 wiki"? Right now it is tf2wiki.net, which has most of the same information as this site, but is poorly edited, has lots of opinion, and in places is completely unkempt.