Talk:Wiki Cap/Archive 5

The following discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it.

Locked page; trivia addition.

Since the only Wiki Cap that isn't of Community rarity is the Self-made one NeoDement has, I feel it should be noted. Stevoisiak 10 November 2010

I'd agree to this. Good bit of information to add to the page. StarYoshi 15:23, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

 No thanks. The infobox already says who it was contributed by. No need to cram it into the trivia as well. --Vaught 20:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

 Agree This is one interest information that should be noted. EpicEric 16:05, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

 Agree I think this should be put in the trivia section. User:Gamazek

trivial addition; M. Bison Homage

It seems that this hat ( Wiki cap) pays strong homage to the hat the M. Bison wears from the Street fighter series.Judging by the fact most hats that pay homage to some other fiction work not it in the trivia page. examples of this are the Whoopie Cap, the Tough Guy's Toque, and the the Respectless Rubber Glove.I also looked through the archives and saw that there was no definitive answer if it should be added Schrodingerscat 03:30, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

It doesn't look all that close to the M.Bison cap. If anything, it's closer to an attendant-styled cap than M. Bison. Most make such a comparison due to the colors. --Vaught 03:37, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

It is simply a peaked cap. M. Bison just so happens to also wear a peaked cap. They are a common and somewhat stereotypical headwear item of military officers and are not inherently attached to any on figure in particular. Unless you can find actual evidence besides the visual similarity between the Wiki Cap and M. Bison's hat that the two are connected, the trivia should NOT be added. If it is a guess or an assumption, it is not trivia. -- - _{(talk | contribs)} -- 06:29, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

you can say it looks like m bisons hat because its the same color and the golden eagle seen on m.bison's was replaced with the team fortress cross hair logo but its not that much of a direct reference to m.bison but like alex said theres no proof otherwisePeter Antonio Filippis 01:02, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

Nope I would say it looks like a train conductors hat IMO. KingSloth 21:27, 08 July 2013 (UTC)

trivial addition; Dutch Railway cap

The global view of the wiki cap; has a strong resemblance to the hat used by the Dutch Railway personell. (link to example of Railway cap : The Dutch Railway Cap ) Unknown if there is any reference to it when it was created; it does look quite similar. Your opinion on if it needs to be added FoOz 10:56, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

As the article states, it is just a stereotypical peaked cap. Peaked caps are used in many professions, not just for Dutch railways. -- Nineaxis 22:15, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

Category:Community-contributed items

Put it in there since I can't! (No that isn't what she said) --Vaught 07:39, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Team Spirit Paint?

Just curious, there's a Question-mark for Team Spirit paint under the Wiki Cap. My question is this: Does Team Spirit paint affect hats that already change color based on team, and if so, should we leave an "X" or something there to denote whether or not you can even get that hat? It's a nit-pick, but it sort of looked to me as if "there is this sort of hat out there, but we don't have an image yet." StarYoshi| 21:06, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

An image has yet to be retrieved. There is no attribute that prevents specific paints from being used. Psychopath 21:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Pretty sure we're still working on the Team Spirit color for the hats. The procedure we use to get hat colors differs from the norm, so it's on standby. Fendermcbender 21:09, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Okie-doke. Just checking. StarYoshi 21:29, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Receiving the Hat

How is this hat received in the game?iKnow 05:30, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

It's received through standard drop once it is given to a person. The game will alert you that you have a new item. -- Krizzle 0 05:34, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

Yes, but would you have link your account or tell them your name first? KingSloth 21:30, 08 July 2013 (UTC)

A staff member will approach those that they believe qualify. – Smashman _(talk) 15:17, 8 July 2013 (PDT)

Pics on each class?

Id like to see how the hat looks like on each class. Anyone have pictures of that? Hilarious Pill 10:34, 27 November 2010 (UTC)Hilarious Pill

I'll throw up a gallery of HLMV mugshots. It seems I have no idea how to remove default class headwear in HLMV, and clipping issues aren't good. So, I support this, but someone else will have to do it. -RJ 10:37, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

Neo said the version in mdlviewer was wonked up as it didn't work properly. And to remove headgear of classes, you go to the Model tab, click on the first list button (Should say the class name) and find its hat, be it helmet or cap or whatever. Then pick Submodel two. Its gone, tada! But yeah, it being an all class item means its a one-size fits all thing, meaning its not going to fit well with the other classes, like Scout, due to weird clipping. --Vaught 11:00, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

I've added individual pictures (or tried) for most of the classes. I will fix the transparency issue later. Axel 18:35, 1 July 2011 (PDT)

The badges all seem to be the wrong color. Balladofwindfishes 18:36, 1 July 2011 (PDT)

Oh, that's odd. Those are the badges in the files I had. Either way. I'm adding transparent versions of the pictures now. Axel 19:15, 1 July 2011 (PDT)

I tried adding transparent ones because they didnt seem like they were, but it still says they are not transparent even though I'm 100% sure they were made transparent. Axel 19:23, 1 July 2011 (PDT)

How to get the Wiki cap discussion

If some one no how to get the wiki cap, write it down here. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sortbrun (talk) • (contribs)

You can see the guidelines here: Team Fortress Wiki:Wiki Cap guidelines. Also please sign all your comments with "~~~~" when adding to a discussion.^Scatman _John (Talk | Contrib) 15:58, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Isn't there a "Learn how to earn one here" bit on the main page? StarYoshi 22:39, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Nope, that's been removed due to the fact that the cap has been out for a while now. -- Firestorm 23:08, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Straight from the Wiki Cap article itself... "The Wiki Cap is awarded to valuable contributors to the Official Team Fortress Wiki. Learn how to earn one here."

/discussion -- Psychopath 23:10, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Perhaps we should make that bold -- Firestorm 23:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Or you could just have a notice at the top of the page like the poker night trivia notice ^Scatman _John (Talk | Contrib) 23:23, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

That's a bit large for such a minor thing. -- Firestorm 23:28, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Fair point, it would probobly be best just to make it bold then ^Scatman _John (Talk | Contrib) 23:29, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

It's got an entire section dedicated to it. Anyone who can't see that is blind -- Psychopath 23:29, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

I have to agree with Psychopath. I mean, you just even search for 'How to get the Wiki Cap in TF2' and the guidelines are the sixth result so it isn't exactly hidden information. Sentry 00:14, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

Preventing scammers

One person is in the list of potential candidates for 2 or 3 weeks. He is just spamming with useless edits and reverting the other edits. Also he is inadequate and talking with him does not nothing. Here it is - Romalien. Please, disqualify him. Shiz0 14:24, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

The list is not final, its more of a gauge to tell how well an individual is doing. The admins have the final say in every hat decision. Spam will never get a cap. Natemckn 14:25, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

The list is just a reference generated by windpower. -- Swordz (talk | contribs) 14:27, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

I don't think you should put this in a discussion. Next time I suggest you tell an admin in seceret. Thespy 04:32, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

Correct. This is not the place to make those kinds of comments. If you feel there is an issue, please get in touch with one of the admins. -- En Ex _(talk) 04:46, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

http://www.tf2items.com/id/Romalien He got a wiki cap, so he must of been doing something right. Just a Gigolo 07:55, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

What's the use of restarting a discussion concluded last december ? Furthermore, Romalien maybe did for some time some spam, but he did some great jobs on the russian translation before that, and did great again after... We don't award the Cap to farmers and spammers, but it's never said anybody can't change and start being useful again. Tturbo _(T/C) 15:25, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

2 questions

it says on getting wiki cap to do so many edits but the edits do they include talk pages and adding photos or not --Iaindude 12:05, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

If adding some useful - High Quality photos for some Articles , that count , however edits on the talk pages do not count here and it will not give ya some score .--– Gin_Ginster _(talk) 12:12, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

It is suggested however, to post on talk pages frequently, as discussion about an article's content can still lead to improvements overall, as well as lending legitimacy to your edits and making you a more active member and therefore more eligible to the humans who decide who gets the cap. Bandit Stache 14:06, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Lost Hope

Okay, after awhile with editing and translating the english and norwegian TF Wiki parts I feel like its no use to get on the Candidate List. I really put efford and thinking about the community but it's just not good for em' at all. Im not saying "Please, put me on the List!" but Im just sick of translating by myself and dont have any others to help me.. As this leads up to, I will not going to ask more then this: Can you guys just tell the exact guideline to me as an translator and dont put up so many huge contributors (even they deserve the Cap) all too often? Ravecrib9t4 20:16, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but your edits were insufficient (not by far) for your name to appear on the list. We can still consider you for voting if you'd like, but there are, as you mentioned, other "huge contributors" (each of them putting quite a lot of effort too) which have not received the cap yet, and who probably will before you.

Part of your problem seems to stem from the lack of other Norwegian translators. I think the best thing you could do is to recruit other Norwegian speakers you know. Recruitment, while it doesn't "count for points" on the list, is still a great contributing factor, and it would also make editing the Norwegian pages more fun. Editing the wiki by yourself is no fun, so we appreciate your work so far~ — Wind 01:43, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

WInd, thank you for the advise. But so far as i know, the other registrated Norwegians has just given up or been lazy. I dont think i can either find anyone to help me so I can do one simple thing to get me up there alone: Contribute alot of stuff so the name appears abit more then earlier :3 Also, if and i say if the others come back to the Wiki for editing, then I'll hope they will help out. BTW: Can you earn more by making a article that doesnt exist on the Wiki? Cuz i got one here that I made...Ravecrib9t4 04:49, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

Remember: never give up. Vulturas, one of the Cap owners was alone, too, but he still got it. DrAkcel ^{(T | C)} 04:51, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

One main problem is that between translators, the numerical competition is harsh. DrAkcel for instance had to wait a bit before receiving it because some more active translators (and not farming ones) were before him. We try to keep everyone on mind but with translators it's harder. Tturbo _(T/C) 17:02, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

To answer the last question, yes you do earn more points for creating new articles. However, the one you linked to is in your userspace (User:Ravecrib9t4/articlename), so it has not been counted. For it to count, you'd have to create it in the main article space (which you can still do right now). I don't know if life-extending machines deserve their own articles though, or if that should instead be merged as a section of some storyline page... But you can still go ahead and create the article, it'll be merged if needed — Wind 17:22, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

Gallery?

I just have a few image-related questions about this article. Foremost, why isn't there a gallery of images with every class wearing the cap yet? I know we have quite a few talented image makers... It even seemed as though it was getting a bit of progress there for a bit. I'm guessing the hat just positions badly in HLMV? Is that a problem everyone has with it?

Second, does anyone think they can get development images? The darker team colors and pure ones mentioned in the trivia, namely? I think they'd make nice additions to the article. I think I saw the black one on Facepunch awhile back, but I'm probably mistaken. --SilverHammer 18:31, 26 July 2011 (PDT)

It's impossible to correctly position the hat in HLMV, is what I heard. Balladofwindfishes 18:32, 26 July 2011 (PDT)

So it'd just be impossible, then? No one that's really handy with Photoshop can use the replay feature to take a nice screen cap in slow motion and edit the edges a bit? --SilverHammer 18:39, 26 July 2011 (PDT)

I was wondering if maybe manually reposition it in a plain white backgroun Garry's Mod map or something. I'm not sure what the quality would be like with such a solution though. There has to be a work around for this problem. Balladofwindfishes 18:42, 26 July 2011 (PDT)

Surely there's no-one more capable of making these images than the people who have this hat anyway? Why can't one of them find a map with a white wall and have a friend take screenshots or something? » Cooper Kid (Blether · Contreebs) 02:59, 27 July 2011 (PDT)

Hey by the way, Demoman's gallery image is the old broken one. Need a new image with fixed version.Shadowcon66 03:45, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

Do multiple changes to the Template:Dictionary/price section at once count as multiple edits?

Recently I noticed that there were many inaccuracies within the "Template:Dictionary/price" list regarding hat prices, so I did a massive edit and corrected them all in one go. Will this count as multiple edits since I changed the prices of many hats within the section, or does it only count as one edit since they're all on the same list? I don't really care since I'm more in this to improve the Wiki than score a Wiki Cap, but since I'm doing this anyway I figured I'd check and ask a question that could prove useful to those who do seek the Wiki Cap. Blk Mage Ctype 11:59, 17 August 2011 (PDT)

It won't count as multiple edits, but edit count doesn't matter that much anyway. What really matters is edit quality, and that sounds pretty quality to me. Nice work. --SilverHammer 12:00, 17 August 2011 (PDT)

When a user is put up for nomination for a wiki cap, we will look at many of your edits to determine your candidacy for the cap. If we see 500 really good edits like the one you made, it will be much better for you than 2000 partial edits. -- Firestorm 12:01, 17 August 2011 (PDT)

Thank you very much for the help and for your compliments, glad I could help to make the Wiki better. Blk Mage Ctype 13:32, 17 August 2011 (PDT)

Current Picture

The Current Picture for this page is also in the Gallery. Should we make a new picture for the Gallery, make a new picture to replace the Current one, or leave it? --ScoutKast 01:00, 31 August 2011 (PDT)

Getting WikiCap without being a translator

Most wiki cap recipients are translators. What exactly does one need to do in order to get a wiki-cap without being a translator. There's not really any major things someone can do...— The preceding unsigned comment was added by DracoX872 (talk) • (contribs) 17:59, 12 September 2011

I am not a translator and I have plenty to do, I suggest you look over the task list. Also you shouldn't edit for the sake of the hat, you should be editing because you want to :) 15:06, 12 September 2011 (PDT)

Look through the list of recipients, most of the owners edit or did edit the English part of the Wiki. It's certainly not impossible to get it now. There's always work to be done, pages that need editting, images that need uploading and stubs to fill out -- Firestorm 16:45, 12 September 2011 (PDT)

Lock this page?

I think we should lock this page to prevent from 'Blank the Page" spammer. Hinaomi (talk) • (contributions) 01:56, 17 December 2012 (PST)

That's not necessary, this article isn't being constantly vandalised more so than any other article. —Moussekateer·talk 04:24, 17 December 2012 (PST)

more hats similar to this hat

value should make more hats like this because its gets people attention to joining tf2 wiki and value profits from it — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Inventivepython (talk) • (contribs)

The hat has no value as it can't be sold. Secondly, profiting from this hat isn't allowed. And third, This page is about the article, Not about distribution or other things. Ashes (talk) 16:54, 22 May 2014 (PDT)

true but can value make more hats like this= like going through the internet and obtain the item — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Inventivepython (talk) • (contribs)

What value IS there? There is no value. The hat is a privilege. And as one of the staff has mentioned before, editing solely for the cap usually ends up bad as they are blinded by the reward and don't care about quality. Also, please sign your posts. Ashes (talk) 17:49, 22 May 2014 (PDT)

so its impossible to earn — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Inventivepython (talk) • (contribs)

No it's not. You can read the guidelines right here. If you need any help, come to the IRC Channel or ask for someone in the person UserTalk page. Good luck! :) Gabrielwoj (talk) 20:44, 22 May 2014 (PDT)

so u need people to refer u kind of thing — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Inventivepython (talk) • (contribs)

Once again, Sign your posts. And you have to be noticed by your quality edits. Its all about quality edits and dedication. Ashes (talk) 20:58, 22 May 2014 (PDT)

Also, divide the comment of each author by pressing enter. "Reply" someone using : (The most you put, it's more spaces that will add) [Like I just did on this comment, I'm putting two of them to reply your comment, just after Ashes reply.] Gabrielwoj (talk) 21:03, 22 May 2014 (PDT)

Sunbeams Unusual Version

There was a Unusual Version of the Wiki Cap, however valve asked the recipient to change it. Barack Obama (talk) 05:52, 28 May 2014 (PDT)Barack Obama

It's not noticeable, it's not an official thing, it's just a reward when someone finds a rare bug related to items. This was added before, but then removed in this [Change]. We also haven't put Unusual HOUWAR, Unusual Max (The same guy who got the Wiki Cap has the Max [which he traded the wiki cap for the max when Valve said him to change the unusual item]), Unusual Ebenezer and some others. Gabrielwoj (talk) 06:44, 28 May 2014 (PDT)

I believe It was awarded to the user for finding a bug in the Item Schema. Blocking Connections to the Steam media servers and manipulating the schema allowed for things like giftapaults to be used as keys or name tags --Atf412 (talk) 06:49, 28 May 2014 (PDT)

I don't know what was the problem, but the on you mentioned might be a possibility, as the April 24, 2014 Patch, valve mentioned about an item exploit related to tools being used for other purposes. However, as I mentioned above, this shouldn't be added to the trivia. Gabrielwoj (talk) 07:02, 28 May 2014 (PDT)

Agree. --Atf412 (talk) 07:07, 28 May 2014 (PDT)

Let me make this a bit more clear for everyone. We don't any items with "Special" qualities. Example, "X item has been given in Y quality with Z effect" We've had people note these and we've removed them after some discussions. As for the "Unusual Version of this hat" there's heavy discussion already about it. Its gone so its not worth mentioning or bringing up again. Ashes (talk) 11:49, 28 May 2014 (PDT)

I do think this is a interesting topic,however, ashes point is relevant. I don't think I should have brought this up in the first place.Barack Obama (talk) 03:39, 29 May 2014 (PDT)

Phong

Community items adds a strong phong boost to the material file. Does the Infobox image and class images shows that phong boost? I don't know if the cosmetics affects that, and only Weapons get that boost. However, the Wiki Cap is solely a Community item. The Wiki Cap .vmt may already includes that (I haven't investigated). I can't really figure out the difference between on Wiki Cap with this phong boost and without, only on the Scattergun (Which there is a picture here). ▪ - 12:08, 20 March 2015 (PDT)

There's no lines for the strong phong in the VMTs, and I haven't seen anything like that on it ingame, so it doesn't appear to be set elsewhere in the code. Valve probably didn't see it as necessary for the Wiki Cap because the item is special enough on its own, and as far as I'm aware it's the only item that's not a weapon that can be obtained in the community quality. --Omolong (talk) 11:05, 21 March 2015 (PDT)

Alright, thanks. ▪ - 11:21, 21 March 2015 (PDT)

Where are the bugs?

No Bug I just noticed that on the Danish version of the page, there is like 1 bug, but it doesen't show here. Is it because it's fixed or?... --Mrsirpotatohead (talk) 02:04, 28 August 2015 (PDT)

I just took a look using Google Translate and it seems to be a simple clipping bug. If you can confirm this, you can remove the entry. { TidB | t | c | wt } 02:14, 28 August 2015 (PDT)

Generally, all translated pages must reflect the version of the English page. If were bugs that are gone from the English side, then the same goes for translated ones. Ashes (talk) 05:26, 28 August 2015 (PDT)

How often?

When are the nominations choose? As far as I know, one month? ~ ManyaKadir T • C • S ManyaKadir (talk) 02:31, 5 February 2017 (PST)

Please don't open 2 discussions about the same topic. Also, this does neither belong here, nor on Talk:List of Wiki Cap owners, it belongs on Team Fortress Wiki talk:Wiki Cap, but please don't open a third discussion on that now.

You can find available information about the Wiki Cap here, but you shouldn't think too much about the Wiki Cap and just do a good job contributing to the Turkish section and have fun. If you're doing great contributions over a longer time span, you will get the cap sooner or later.

About your question: There's no specifc date where nominations start, if another contributor thinks you deserve it, then he'll nominate you. This initiates a nomination process including min. 5 staff members that are going through your contributions and checking if you're "ready" for it. This nomination process takes about 4-6 months by experience. — shots fired by: Nikno {Talk | Contribs} 02:50, 5 February 2017 (PST)

I already contribute to my purpose here. I'm just trying to socialize. I want to make new friendships. I just wondered a few things. I apologize for my mistake. ~ ManyaKadir T • C • S ManyaKadir (talk) 05:57, 6 February 2017 (PST)

No need to apologize man, it's alright. If you wanna socialize, join TFW:IRC, that's where everybody hangs out. (Although it could be a bit quiet, depending on the time.) :) — shots fired by: Nikno {Talk | Contribs} 09:53, 6 February 2017 (PST)

Should "only x number exist to this day" be part of trivia?

It'll be subject to change every few weeks anyways.

Should it stay there? — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Anyar (talk) • (contribs)

Removed. Also we have a template tracking it. Ashes (talk) 17:28, 13 February 2017 (PST)

Update the "( Not Tradable or Usable in Crafting )" line to "( Not Tradable, Markatable, or Usable in Crafting )"?

Hello everyone. With the recent minor edit I made to the Wiki Cap page (that I added the "Given to valuable Community Contributors" line on the description), I started thinking about this. This is the tag that shows in-game, for quite some time now, almost every item that was "( Not Tradable or Usable in Crafting )" is now described as "( Not Tradable, Marketable, or Usable in Crafting )". I know that there would be other pages that would require this change, such as End of the Line Community Update Medal. Thoughts? Thank you. ▪ - 04:34, 21 October 2018 (UTC)

Oh, and also, here's a screenshot on how it looks in-game. ▪ - 04:35, 21 October 2018 (UTC)

 Agree The description should match what it is in-game. VasyaTheWizard ^{(talk) • (contributions)} 06:25, 21 October 2018 (UTC)

Some observations

I have two points that I'd like to bring up and discuss regarding the Wiki Cap's description;

• Let me explain, I thought in the beginning that perhaps it is not considered a promo item due to the fact that it is awarded to users, for their contribution to the wiki, unlike the usual promo item that is awarded by purchasing a game. But then, we have the items from Random Acts, same as the Wiki Cap, these medals are awarded to people for their contributions (in this case for sponsoring or just making donations, if I'm not mistaken). Both, Wiki cap and the Random Acts' items, have to pass through a nomination and voting process, and made me think, perhaps we can mention that the cap is a promo item? Since both items have similarities on how to obtain them, I think that it is safe to say that the Cap falls under the same category.
  • The Lo-Fi Longwave can also be included to the discussion, it is mentioned in the article of the promo items, but in it's description, it is not mentioned that it is a promotional item.

• Second point, there are some items that are only available in Genuine quality, (as an example; Grandmaster, TF2VRH, the Random Acts items, Aperture Labs Hard Hat, and so forth), all these items, follow a similar format, being "X item was/is awarded in Genuine quality to the players that...". Following the format, we can also apply it to the Wiki Cap, and mention that it is only available in Community quality.

These are my two cents, what do you guys think? Yossef | Talk | Contributions 06:36, 27 April 2022 (UTC)

 + — Tark 16:07, 27 April 2022 (UTC)

 Support
GrampaSwood (talk) 16:11, 27 April 2022 (UTC)

 Support — Exaskliri _(they/them) (talk | contribs) 16:26, 27 April 2022 (UTC)

 Support A change of description is applicable, and both the Wiki Cap and Lo-fi Longwave, as well as medals and other promotional items, are considered as a store promotion item in-game during drop. Moreover, we have listed them as 'Promotional' in the List of class cosmetics ever since, so is good. — Wookipan (talk | contribs) 20:30, 27 April 2022 (UTC)

 Done Thank you all for the feedback, I updated the articles accordingly. Yossef | Talk | Contributions 20:56, 27 April 2022 (UTC)

Unknown patch note

Should the unknown patch note be at the bottom or inbetween the other updates, where it was likely to be added? In the page's history it can clearly be shown that it was changed somewhere around the time it's currently placed.

I believe it should be at the appropriate place, as it gives the reader a slight indication of which update it may have been. Additionally, it's likely that this patch note would have been "All existing Wiki Caps have been changed from Unique to Community" as the item is only dropped via the API and probably got a whole different key for it when it was updated.
GrampaSwood (talk) 17:14, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

Oh damn, I totally missed this... As for the order of unknown patch notes, I don't mind as long as we can come up with a "standardization", as for now it seems that these patch notes are: 1) shelved around an estimated date where it was released. 2) If unknown, then just be on the bottom of the list.

  to change the currently unknown patch note to: "Updated the quality of all existing Wiki Caps from Unique to Community"

Yossef • Talk 13:04, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

I say patches with unknown dates should be at the bottom. Since we do not know the dates for certain, putting them where we think they go is a pure guess; one editor might believe it happened at this point in time, another might believe it happened at that other point, and none of them can prove anything because those are just what they believe.

Also, friendly reminder that the wiki is for the community, not just the contributors. To put guesses is articles, to me, is to "push" beliefs onto the readers instead of presenting them with facts. - BrazilianNut (talk) 13:43, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

The place isn't selected randomly, they're based on the edit history or some other factor. The edit history dates the cap being given the community quality to this edit, on 6 November 2010, therefore it makes sense to put it between these 2 updates.
GrampaSwood (talk) 13:54, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

I know it's not randomly selected, but an educated guess is still a guess. - BrazilianNut (talk) 14:20, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

Indeed, putting the change between the lines by estimation without sufficient proof could be misleading. But, without objection to the current layout, I'd like to point out a fact that, even if we have put it at the bottom, some readers would think the change happens after the latest patch in the section, which could be misleading as well.
Since we are certain that such a change has occurred without acknowledgement of specific time, perhaps we don't have to keep it in the "Update History" section, but can write it in the 'Notes'. 11:16, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

I've thought of two options:

1. When there are changes with unknown dates, split the section into two subsections, one for known and one for unknown dates.
2. Add a note in italics at the bottom of the update history stating something along the lines of "The following changes occurred in unknown dates and, as such, their placement in the update history is unclear." and have all patches of unknown dates together (personally prefer this one).

- BrazilianNut (talk) 12:27, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

  I like this idea, but I'd suggest on adding that note as a tooltip, in my opinion it looks better than cluttering the Update history with extra sentences. I made a mockup below for people to see how it would look like.

== Update history ==

September 30, 2010 Patch (Mann-Conomy Update)

• The Wiki Cap was added to the game.

October 18, 2010 Patch

• [Undocumented] The Wiki Cap's description was updated.

December 2, 2010 Patch #1

• The Wiki Cap's painting texture was improved.

December 20, 2013 Patch (Smissmas 2013)

• Fixed the Wiki Cap clipping with the Demoman's head.

October 28, 2021 Patch

• [Undocumented] Updated the Wiki Cap's description.

Unknown Patch

• Updated the quality of all existing Wiki Caps from Unique to Community.

Yossef • Talk 06:03, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

We could use a tooltip, but I think the tip's text could be a tad lengthier, providing a bit more details and info. I also think, if we're going to group changes with unknown dates together, that it should be "patches", not "patch", as it might give the impression all changes occurred in the same one. - BrazilianNut (talk) 07:09, 16 May 2023 (UTC) (by the way, you kind of broke the topic's formatting, Yossef - that "Update history" is counting as a topic. :B)

I think a tooltip is unnecessary, as they can't be viewed on mobile and there is a rather considerable mobile userbase (~2 million mobile users this year compared to ~3.6 million desktop users). A simple change to "Changes made in unknown patches:" or something similar would be preferable and just putting it at the bottom. Also yes you broke the topic so I changed it >:(
GrampaSwood (talk) 07:19, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

Oops, my bad, L + ratio + noob for me.

Moreover, yeah, we could just changed the title Unknown Patch to Changes made in unknown patches. Keeping in mind that this would be at the bottom.

Yossef • Talk 07:31, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

How about just "Unknown patches", then? - BrazilianNut (talk) 10:40, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

I personally prefer what Gramps suggested, but would not oppose to simply calling it "Unknown patches". Yossef • Talk 10:56, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

As this affects other articles, please move this topic to Team Fortress Wiki:Discussion. — Tark 14:00, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ See Team Fortress Wiki:Discussion#Unknown patch notes
GrampaSwood (talk) 14:03, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

The preceding discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it.