Talk:Team Fortress 2 Beta

Delete this page

This is unreleased content, it can't have it's own page. — The preceding unsigned comment was added by TheScoot (talk) • (contribs) 2010-09-06T10:07:24

Please remember to sign your posts with 4 tildes, like this: ~~~~ --Picard lm(de) 14:21, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

The beta is here, so this page should not be deleted. Sonic Nova 14:8, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

Citations

Well, it was not KritzKast first. First was PC Gamer's interview. Holek 20:05, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

AHA! I knew I'd heard it somewhere else first.--Focusknock 20:06, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

But they didn't mention it was open. — Wind 20:07, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

Yes, they did:

PC Gamer: Are there any class updates that you’ve done that you feel you need to revisit?

Robin Walker: (...) There are systems in the game that are tuned to specific numbers. The amount of damage the sniper rifle does fully charged, for instance. On a headshot it’s specifically tuned to the health of the other class, so there would be damage numbers we’d need to change. It’s hard for us to run that test and get good data, so, we’re probably going to gear up the TF2 public beta again soon and make it publicly available to everyone who owns TF. We’ll start running some more wide scale experiments there.

Holek 20:11, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

/me fails D: — Wind 20:26, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

hey its ep 82 not 88 — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Madsser (talk) • (contribs) 2010-09-05T17:06:14

Any reason the link to KK keeps getting deleted? If it's a case of not being able to qualify our source, well that's something we're not prepared to do. We promised annominity to He/She/It. But we will be proven correct on it Agro 22:27, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

As far as I heard on the Podcast, it was just "very soon". We can't really put something here that isn't verifiable, so "soon" will have to suffice until any further announcement about a launch date. Not saying you're wrong, and not trying to be difficult, just that if it's not verifiable, it can't really pass as wiki content. -- Nineaxis 22:31, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

You can leave the KritzKast link there, but the episode didn't disclose a launch date. -- Nineaxis 22:31, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

That's very kind of you, but yes, there was a mention of time scale towards the back of the episode, time stamp 38:15, "It's going to happen this week, basically, by the sounds of things"Agro 22:36, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

Soon. Well, I suppose that the Open Beta's release date is farther than October 18, 2010, according to Valve Time. AbeX300 03:54, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

Trivia

Wouldn't the fact that Counter-Strike Source has an open beta be good trivia for the section? It shows that the TF2 beta wasn't first, and that Valve has done an open beta before. --Stevoisiak 20:24, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

Honestly, I don't think we need to note whether it's the first, second, third or fourth open beta. For the same reason we don't document that some hat is the 20th hat added to the game.-RJ 20:35, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

It's more the fact that alot of people may think the Beta is a new idea that hasn't been done by valve before, even though there is another ongoing beta. --Stevoisiak 20:41, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

It's uninteresting.  – Smashman _(talk) 20:42, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

It's not relevant to the article. So, no. -- En Ex _(talk) 21:42, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

Even if they think the TF2 beta was the first, that.. doesn't really affect anything if you get what I mean. Sure, it's nice information but sooner or later, a CS:S fan is going to point it out.

Besides running on the same game engine and sharing some patches, CS:S and TF2 don't have any other connections to one another, making the information irrevelant. Sonic Nova 14:4, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

WebAPI

There's an unannounced WebAPI for the beta (replace iTFItems_440 with iTFItems_520). Apparently there are now 3 Natascha variants: "Natascha", "Natascha Variant 1" and "Natascha Variant 2" - quite creative names. Additionally, I wonder if crafting and such is still enabled. Netshroud 01:04, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

“

What's in the initial release? Three Natascha variants: — [1]

”

— Nineaxis (talk | contribs) 01:06, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

I know, I was just pointing out the names. Netshroud 01:19, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

How do you choose which to use?--Jordan 01:50, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

If you're talking about the weapons, look at the attributes or flip a coin. Netshroud 01:54, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

I Meant more like how do you select a different one. Is there three in the backpack?--Jordan 02:20, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

Yes, you get 3 different Nataschas. Netshroud 04:23, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

I tried crafting and crafted a Rocket Jumper, a Backburner and a Huntsman. So you can craft stuff that are not in the initial backpack. BarnabasHale 13:44, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

Changelog

Any plans to set up a changelog? We have some basic info on the three Natascha variants and on 5CP Gorge so we could start while we are ahead. Sentry 01:07, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

Totally unnecessary but kinda cool change suggestion

Make the background the same as the Engineer backgrounds with the wrench icon. -KazooieBanjo 01:56, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

I know that it would probably be a nice change, but since it's a beta that covers all of Team Fortress 2 the regular TF2 symbol should stay, it's not just about an Engineer beta; if it were, then the Engineer symbol would be appropriate. Sonic Nova 13:55, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

Page of all items available in the Beta?

Should we have a page of all the items that are available in the Beta? -KazooieBanjo 03:12, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

I think it is a good idea, the page will be huge if we put all the beta weapons here. Even if there is currently only 3 variants, it is something to take in consideration. Octocat 09:35, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

We shall work out out when we come to it. For the moment, the page is an OK size so we don't have to worry about it. -- Pilk _(talk) 09:37, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

Yeap. For now, no need to fiddle around with styles so long as the current one is effective. StarYoshi 20:38, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

Obvious things?

It says the player gets "all promotional items their account should have". Are the Parasite and the Poker Night items not promotional items or why do they get mentioned seperately? Same goes for "the complete Saharan Spy pack (including the Familiar Fez)". Is there a something I miss? For me it sounds like "Get all numbers from 1 to 9 (including 4).

Gamer 7601 08:43, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

That's a good point. I'll clear that up. -- Pilk _(talk) 08:44, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

Patch Pages

I believe there should be patch pages for the TF2 Beta similar to those seem for the official TF2. I know some people would be interested to check them here for some extra info of what Valve is planning or whatever. --EpicEric 00:33, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

EDIT: By the way, here's the official log of the updates. --EpicEric 01:41, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

 Support That's my own idea, why wouldn't I support it? --EpicEric 00:34, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

 Support Of course. Fendermcbender 01:43, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

 Support Makes sense. -KazooieBanjo 07:58, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

 Support Agreed. Netshroud 11:12, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

 Support A good idea gets my support StarYoshi 15:25, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

 Support I'm all for it. Magic Magician 16:02, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

 Support Yup, we need this. Octocat 16:10, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

 Done – Smashman _(talk) 17:37, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

• I've started Patches (Beta) for a place for the patches themselves to be listed. Considering how minor beta patches may be (or how few of them there will be, we don't know), I don't think it's a good idea to have each one listed on a separate page like we do for TF2 patches. Having them all on the one page will be far easier. In the event that beta patches become a lot more frequent, we do always have the option to move them off into separate pages again. seb26 [talk] 20:08, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

Beta Update Log/Change Log

So there's an official beta update history thread on SPUF located here: http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1629850

I was wondering how we're going to incorporate that, if we plan on it? Fendermcbender 01:06, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

See section above, will you? --EpicEric 01:41, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

Oh gosh, sorry. I'm blind. Fendermcbender 01:43, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

Rename Changes Section

Should the Changes Section be renamed to "Current Changes", or something like that? Because as it's stated right now, it seems like it should be for all changes ever, which would get messy really quick. --Heytherejake

Bugs

Are we going to continue to keep a log of all the bugs? If so, it's out-of-date with the SPUF sticky. Netshroud 11:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

Idk, let's go with the flow for now, if we need it, we'll make one. --EvilDeadFan 17:16, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

I think we should make one when necessary, like if there is a noticeable bug that needs fixing. But other than that, one can be made after the beta finishes to show what bugs were found and what were fixed. Sonic Nova 14:11, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

Beta patches on {{Latest updates}}

Anyone think this is a good idea? My thoughts were have them a smaller font than blog and main patches, so that those interested can see them easily. – Smashman _(talk) 17:49, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

 Sure: I really don't see why not. -The Neotank ( | Talk) 18:10, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

 Support Since it's in the beta, it's not as important as regular updates, so a smaller font would make differing between the two easier. Sonic Nova 13:47, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

 Support Good suggestion. I'm in favor of its implementation. -- En Ex _(talk) 20:50, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

 Support The patch notes are buried in the SPUF, so having them easily accessible here would be a good idea Natemckn 20:51, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

 Support No reason not to. -- OluapPlayer _(t) 21:11, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

Okay, I've added them to the Main Page now. seb26 [talk] 21:50, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

Item Drops

While it states that random item drops are disabled, I recently found an ambassador after playing on a server for a while, and witnessed another person find a huntsman. Has anything changed? Ssssssmokin 19:05, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

Achievement Milestone, maybe. --SLBros 19:30, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

I received one massive item drop in the beginning containing all the items, and haven't gotten anything since. SnowCanary 03:16, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

I found a Buckaroo's Hat as a drop. I think the drops must've been reactivated on accident in the last patch, because the main purpose of the public beta is to get the community involved in testing out conceptual attributes. It's too bad though that I don't have the hat in the real tf2. Crafting still appears to be off. TechnetiumG 22:56, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

Can anyone confirm if the item drop system was disabled in the last patch? --SandeProElite 15:47, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

I just saw someone get a Battalion's Backup in game, so I don't think it got fixed. I'm gonna add items dropping to the bugs list. -KazooieBanjo 05:10, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

I got pairs of GRU, (but only one show in my loadout slot)...the Gunslinger and a Crit-a-Cola on 2/24/2011, so I'm sure the drop is still active Hawkshadow741 16:17, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Updating...

How should we go about doing this? Seeing how the Natasha's have been removed, and other things. -= M-NINJA =- 01:39, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps by diving it up into testing, scrapped and introduced changes. Not sure. -- Pilk _(talk) 01:41, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

Doubled weapons?

My unique weapons were doubled with this last update.[2] Apparently, this wasn't the case of some people, such as my bro.[3] Did this happen to anyone else?  –  Epic Eric (T | C) 15:50, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

Yup. Mine's are too. --SandeProElite 15:47, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

This i don't even

Well here i am again with another remade table. Hate the one we got, and that its split into two. So i made this: User:M-NINJA/Projects/Beta Redo. Tell me what you think. -= M-NINJA =- 21:28, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

 Support Looks much more comfortable and friendly (if you know aht I mean) than the current one.  –  Epic Eric (T | C) 16:21, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

saharan spy

saharan spy weps and hat have stopped been given out after latest update Tendog 04:58, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

also reference 1 for the trivia doesnt make sense

can confirm that, didn't get the items when i first started the beta. should be removed from the peage Karamos 13:59, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

Somehow overlooked this, but I figured that was the case now. Could someone please post a list of all the items they received upon starting the beta? I'm not even sure if the gifts are still being given out. Dragonsbrethren 08:50, 19 July 2011 (PDT)

Remove the inactive stuff

IMHO it is time now to remove the inactive changes. Most of the page is filled with - simply put - outdated information. The history is saved in Patches_(Beta), so this is just redundant and confusing padding. Thoughts? --CruelCow ^(talk) 00:03, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

•  Support If someone was coming to this page without having been to the patches (Beta) page, they might make the assumption that all the stuff here is currently in the beta. Outdated information either needs regulary removing, or perhaps it could go into a history section at the bottom. ^Scatman _John (Talk | Contrib) 00:08, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

• • At the bottom with == History == and with a transcript hidden, only expanded for those who really wants to know about old stuff. NoWhereMan_(DSvY) 00:11, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

 Comment It needs to be documented somewhere (apart from the beta patches page). It's interesting to keep track of experimental changes in the beta, even if they were scrapped. —Moussekateer·talk 02:18, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

And why wouldn't Patches (Beta) suffice for that? --CruelCow ^(talk) 17:50, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

It'd be nice to see what was tested at a glance, its stats and how long it was active. Reading patch notes isn't as friendly. I was thinking of a table collapsed by default? —Moussekateer·talk 23:37, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

Individual weapon pages

Question: do you think we should put info about the beta changes on the individual weapons' pages? Oboewan42 22:33, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

• This isn't advisable, as we would prefer to keep TF2 and TF2 Beta separate. —Moussekateer·talk 00:30, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
• To add, it would also be confusing since newbies might think the things associated in the Beta would be in-game at the moment. It would be best to have it separated for the people less fortunate to know that the Beta is totally different. Wintergreen 02:26, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

Hmmm....

Why is it that not a single weapon will lower the damage taken from melee sources? Just a question. Needs more melee source protection. Altair 19:30, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

Inactive Changes Suggestion

We should make a note in the "Active" column if the weapon was tested and the changes were implemented in the main game. -KazooieBanjo 05:08, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Sun on a Stick

it said "-25% damage down" then "DOWN from "-15%" changed it to "Up from -15%"

Is that right?

Gifts

I believe there was a patch (can't pinpoint the date) were it gave everybody a usage of pile o' gifts or secret saxton but I don't see a note for that in any of the patches and it isn't mentioned under the entitled items. Should this be mentioned? BASEBALLFURIES 04:44, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

Excluded promotional items

I know the Magicka and DotP promo items aren't dropping for the Beta, what other promo items haven't dropped? -KazooieBanjo 03:10, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

"All Owners Can Access Beta"

I am a F2P TF2 player. I have searched my library, and not found my TF2 Beta. Is the beta only available to what is now called premium users? Many thanks if someone could answer that. MetaSkipper 19:44, 29 June 2011 (PDT)

Yes. I also got tf2 after ftp but got premium. you get a hat, the ability to trade, tf2 beta, and if you are new to steam and haven't bought anything, then you get to add people to your friends list. — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Kirov123 (talk) • (contribs) 02:17, 3 August 2011

Just a note on the July 12th patch item changes

While the Detonator, Beta Syringe Gun, and Beta Bonesaw changed to their normal TF2 counterparts, the Beta Quick-Fix did not become the Quick-Fix nor did the Sniper's weapons. Whether there's any actual significance to this I can't say, but I left them in the changes currently under test section as a result.

It's not a simple case of forgetting to update those items, either. items_game.txt has separate entries for the unchanged beta items and the variants that went live in the Uber Update. Dragonsbrethren 22:01, 12 July 2011 (PDT)

I'm of the opinion that Valve just forgot to convert existing Beta Quick-Fixes into normal Quick-Fixes. If you read the Mann Co. Catalog in Beta, you will notice that it still has entries for the Sniper Beta weapons (yet also has Bazaar Bargain and Shahanshah entries) and the Soldier Beta weapons, but no entries for the Medic Beta weapons or the Beta Detonator. Also in response to your question on the individual talk pages, yes I believe redirect now and list Beta attributes in the Update History section. TheChrisD ^{Rants•Edits} 00:16, 13 July 2011 (PDT)

That's my guess too, but I didn't want to remove these weapons until it's confirmed that they're done tuning them. They left the feedback threads for the Medic and Sniper items up over at SPUF too, and they've always removed those when they've finished testing an item. Dragonsbrethren 10:37, 13 July 2011 (PDT)

Also, unless the description is wrong, the Beta Sniper Rifle's stats weren't changed to those of the Bazaar Bargain, so those are two distinct weapons. Dragonsbrethren 11:15, 13 July 2011 (PDT)

Then again, the Beta Quick-Fix's stats aren't the same as the actual Quick-Fix (+40% heal rate as opposed to +25% heal rate), but they're still pretty much the same weapon. They don't necessarily need to have the same stats, as long as the general point was there, it's the same weapon. The Beta stats just need to be added to the Update History (see Overdose for an example), and if any stats changed between the Beta and Trunk, then highlight those changes in the same section as when the weapon was added to the main game.

For the moment though, redirecting the Beta Syringe Gun, Beta Bonesaw and Detonator (Beta) to their main game counterparts should be done.TheChrisD ^{Rants•Edits} 02:56, 14 July 2011 (PDT)

Add the new "Custom Blueprint" to the "Changes currently under test"

I think it should be added. Mitko1239 (Talk page) 03:38, 13 July 2011 (PDT)

I added it along with a note about the music from Meet the Medic. Dragonsbrethren 10:39, 13 July 2011 (PDT)

And now I removed them since they got patched into the normal game. Dragonsbrethren 18:16, 18 July 2011 (PDT)

Beta Strategy Pages

So I was thinking. Since some of the beta weapons are so different from the weapons of the real game (Even the Bazaar Bargain's beta predecessor is really different from the released version), maybe it'd be good to create "Basic Beta Weapons Strategy" and "Community Beta Weapons Strategy" pages. What do you guys think? ShadowGlove 15:17, 13 August 2011 (PDT)

 Support Bumping my idea. ShadowGlove 06:00, 15 August 2011 (PDT)

 Oppose I don't really think it's necessary - so few people use the Beta regularly, and the items there are frequently modified so the strategies will keep changing. Any good items will end up in the full game anyway. » Cooper Kid (blether·contreebs) 10:44, 22 September 2011 (PDT)

 Oppose ^Ditto. — The preceding unsigned comment was added by NobleSkull (talk) • (contribs) 18:51, 22 September 2011

Scottish Resistance & Saharan Spy Nerf

It looks like the Scottish Resistance has a 1 second arm time as opposed to a 0.8 second det time in the Beta, along with the Saharan Spy set having a 1 second cloak blink time instead of 0.5 second. Should these be added to the page? JAssassin 09:48, 22 September 2011 (PDT)

They've been added to the patch notes. » Cooper Kid (blether·contreebs) 10:40, 22 September 2011 (PDT)

Add Beta Update History box.

Because someone said "If we have beta patch in update history, it'll make someone confused."

So I did another box to add beta update for weapon that have beta update but not unrelease. Hinaomi 07:11, 23 September 2011 (PDT)

Rounding errors

It's become apparent that the time changes in the latest patch are actually the result of the items' real stats being rounded up to the nearest whole number in their descriptions. The item data has not been changed nor has their effect in-game. The Claidheamh Mòr charges the exact same distance, for instance.

I've removed these weapons from the "changes under test" section and made a note about rounding errors in other changes. I've done the same for the patch notes. Dragonsbrethren 19:47, 23 September 2011 (PDT)

Awww, heck, those changes seem extremely legit, considering the Enforcer's/Saharan Spy's nerf and CM's buff. I was really counting on them. :P You tested it with all the weapons, correct? -Rocket Ship BBQ 09:23, 24 September 2011 (PDT)

Me personally no, but posters over at SPUF did. Dragonsbrethren 12:27, 24 September 2011 (PDT)

May I have a link? Just want to see what they said. -Rocket Ship BBQ 14:18, 24 September 2011 (PDT)

Sorry, missed this when you added it, but the rounding error has since been fixed. Dragonsbrethren 17:16, 2 October 2011 (PDT)

Moved the Medic and Sniper beta weapons

Continuing the earlier discussion, I think it's pretty safe to say that they're done testing these weapons. The feedback threads at SPUF have been removed. I edited the previous changes section to include these weapons and documented the major changes made to them in the beta.

One thing I wasn't sure on was which page to link to. The beta weapons are still separate from their normal game counterparts and both exist in the beta. Additionally the Beta Quick-Fix and Beta Sniper Rifle 1 still have different stats. For now I linked to the beta weapon in the lefthand column and added a link to the weapon it was added as in the status column. I'm not sure I really like that approach, though. Dragonsbrethren 17:16, 2 October 2011 (PDT)

Detonator???

I saw detonator in Previous changes that detonator have 20% self damage but in main game detonator have 25% self damage. Should I move detonator back to Changes currently undergoing testing? Hinaomi 22:49, 2 November 2011 (PDT)

The +25% damage was never actually tested in the beta. When the Detonator was added to the normal game they upped the self damage to 25%. It's certainly not still being tested in the beta though; the normal game's changes have already been merged into the beta. (On a side note, I'm still annoyed that we have to have the Quick-Fix and Sniper items up there just because someone at Valve forgot to/chose not to update those weapons to their live TF2 counterparts.) Dragonsbrethren 13:52, 5 November 2011 (PDT)

See also: Closed Beta

I've decided to remove the see also link from the top of the page. While the open beta and closed betas are very similar, the closed beta is already linked twice, once in the body text and another time at the bottom. Anyone coming to this page (likely from the main index) is going to be looking for information on the current beta. The closed beta is an interesting curiosity, but I don't think there is any reason to link to it at the very top of the article. Dragonsbrethren 19:30, 13 November 2011 (PST)

Yeah, you did the right thing. Only 1 link to close beta is enough. Hinaomi 20:08, 13 November 2011 (PST)

Feedback threads

Occasionally one of the Valve guys will add a sticky feedback thread about some of the weapon changes over at SPUF, like this one for the flamethrowers:

Flamethrower changes

I would like to incorporate these threads into the changes currently undergoing testing section of the article, but I can't figure out a good way of including the links. Does anyone have any suggestions? There are usually two separate threads; one for public play and one for competitive, and some times they create multiple threads for different weapons, as was the case when we were testing the Uber Update weaponry. Dragonsbrethren 21:18, 4 December 2011 (PST)

Well, those aren't "changes under testing" per se. Those threads are just feedback/suggestions. —Rocket Ship BBQ(•) 21:38, 4 December 2011 (PST)

The threads are created to discuss the changes the TF2 team has made to the weapons, though. That's the most logical spot to link to them from. Dragonsbrethren 21:51, 4 December 2011 (PST)

How does everyone feel about this?

Class	Item	Old	New
Soldier	Equalizer	Blocks healing while in use Move speed increases as the user becomes injured No damage penalty Base damage: 33-113	No longer blocks healing  Move speed no longer increases as the user becomes injured  Slight high-end damage penalty Base damage: 33–107
		Discuss this change at the Steam Users' Forums: Public Play
Pyro	Flame Thrower	~ Base damage: 6.2/particle	+10% damage bonus Base damage: 6.82/particle
		Discuss this change at the Steam Users' Forums: Public Play Competitive Play
	Backburner	+10% damage bonus Base damage: 6.82/particle	No damage bonus Base damage: 6.82/particle
		Discuss this change at the Steam Users' Forums: Public Play Competitive Play
	Degreaser	No damage penalty Base damage: 6.2/particle	-10% damage penalty Base damage: 6.14/particle
		Discuss this change at the Steam Users' Forums: Public Play Competitive Play
Heavy	Tomislav	~	-50 max health on wearer

It makes the table pretty nasty markup-wise, and I really don't like the way the links look, but I do like having the link to discuss right there next to the weapon that was changed. Dragonsbrethren 15:27, 5 December 2011 (PST)

Well, personally, it clutters up the entire thing, those links aren't really helpful, and there is a link to the forums at the bottom which should suffice if anyone wants to discuss an item. It's not necessary, imo, to have a direct link, sacrificing readability and simplicity for the convenience of very little people who both read the wiki and suddenly want to discuss that item while being too lazy to simply go to the forums and find a place to discuss it. :/ —Rocket Ship BBQ(•) 16:37, 5 December 2011 (PST)

People not getting items

Well me and some other people are having this bug. The first time we opened TF2 Beta, we didn't get any items, or we just got a few items, and there's no other possible way to get all items. --Adliikhwan 02:10, 4 February 2012 (PST)