Talk:Jag/Archive 1

The following discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it.

Where has this item been found?

Umm, where has this item been found? Is it even in the game? It's certainly not in the Mann Co. catalog. Any clarification would help, I'm confused about this item! Evang7 06:52, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

I'm not fully sure this is a functioning weapon. The model exists, but I don't think it exists in-game.  – Smashman _(talk) 06:58, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

Could it be the rare item in the supply crates? Or do you thin that's the Frying Pan? -Shine[] 07:01, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

I was under the impression that that was just a normal item with an attached particle effect. Does the Jag exist in items_game?  – Smashman _(talk) 07:05, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

It doesn't exist here. So, I'm going with scrapped item.  – Smashman _(talk) 07:09, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

It doesn't appear like playable weapon, but you can see the model and texture in TF2 files or in Gmod.  – Jagoba RL _(talk) 17:12, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

Alright. BTW, does your Knife still sparkle? My RL doesn't. -Shine[] 07:12, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

No. They broke the Community sparkle effect. :(  – Smashman _(talk) 07:17, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

Maybe we should add it to the unused content page, as nothing links to this page currently. While I'd hesitate to immediately call it un-implemented, as the sapper isn't on the item list either, there's no reason to think it would be a building. :P MK 08:07, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

Jag was pictured in the update news. Mechlord 00:33, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Design

Is it meant to be a Caliper? or a clamp of some sort? I mean it's not exactly what I would call a "wrench"... Webrunner 13:19, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

its pretty similar to oil filter wrenches like the one on the left of these [1] --Markd 13:25, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Not really, the top yes but the bottom no it looks like a custom tool I for one have spent a good 19 hours trying to figure it out--Trilby 12:38, 16 October 2010

When I made it, I based it off some strange wrench I saw at a shop, there's a single picture of it on google if you search monkey wrench. The link leads to a 404 but the thumbnail shows it well enough. --Jman 17:22, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

Here's the picture in case anyone wanted to see it: [2] --EvilDeadFan 19:33, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

It looks a lot like the symbol for pi (π), to me. Given the Engineer's level of intelligence, this makes a great deal of sense.Emperorbob20:55, 13 November 2010

No, it barely resembles it, but it was obviously not intended during the creation of the weapon. If you can cite some sources, or ask the creator, then it might be trivia worthy, but hardly as this stands. Not trivia. And sign your edits. Serg 01:35, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

I always felt it looked like a wrench Leonardo da Vinci would have used. ;D Sage J. Fox 00:25, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

Original Author and Future Inclusion Confirmation

I've received a PM at FPSBanana from the original author of the model, Jman. He confirmed that he submitted the model via the Contribute! site a while ago and sent me a picture of an email conversation he had with Robin about it. I've included this information on the page and am awaiting his response to asking for his Steam Community ID. Reorganize the information if need be; I don't make edits of this scale very often.  – Shugo 16:28, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Thanks Shugo! This is just more confirmation of the perf update too! -- Pilk _(talk) 16:31, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

That's pretty nice from Robin. Thanks for the email, no more speculation about this little thing now. -- OluapPlayer _(t) 17:43, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

And now I want it even more. -- En Ex _(talk) 18:04, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Little Competition

What about we try to give Jag Stats?

Maybe some of ours will be used and Jag finaly go in-game :3 Something like this:

Jag Level 10 Jag +20% Hit speed 3 hits needed to destroy sapper

--Zomgcorp 16:33, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

This is not the place for this. Try the Steam forums. -- OluapPlayer _(t) 16:43, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

<See Oluap's response>, and I don't think hit speed would be a huge difference-- Trilby 19:18, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

Well i may be a little late to the party with these posts, but i fully programed the weapon with my own stats.To the SPUF. -= M-NINJA =- 01:26, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Possible stats

I was talking to a guy that (claimed anyway) to have made the backpack icon for this wrench. When I asked about the stats he said they were undecided but it was supposed to be an offensive wrench. The pointed tip on the top could suggest it is used for impaling, maybe with longer swing time? Tryer 19:51, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

Well Valve decide the stats, not the modellers or backpack icon makers. Moussekateer 19:55, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

What if you use it to upgrade buildings to level four but you can't build buildings when its equipped. Vetterlinj 05:30, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

Bug

I've tested this with another person on a server and submitted it to the wiki under the bugs section but ti was removed, so I would be appreciative if anyone else could test for me as well. It seems that when you use the Jag to build a building, it makes no difference to building speed. We counted down and dropped sentries at identical times and raced each other. The first time, we pounded the sentries with wrenches to make them build faster, me with the jag, he with a regular wrench. Both sentries erected and were online at the same time. During the second test, we just let the sentry build up on its own, and the result was the same. Both sentries erected in the same amount of time.

If your testing confirms this, please add the bug section back. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by Palehorse864 (talk) • (contribs)

The speedup effect is there, but it's barely noticeable. Tried it with a dispenser, took 13 hits to build with the wrench and 11 with the jag. --Sky 18:33, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

I've also run some tests, while they sentry takes the same amount of time while not-hitting, the difference between hitting is about 1 second (6s regular wrench-5s Jag) Dispensers also make 1s difference (11s regular, 10s Jag). It is rounded though, there could be some small time mistake. --Warudragon 14:49, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

I saw an edit that it only reduced build time by 15%, then I saw it gone. So I decided to try this one for myself. I've done five tests. The first being a fresh dispenser timed on a stopwatch as soon as I deployed it. I came up with around 9.23 seconds, which is awfully close to the 9.35 I've calculated as 85% of the 11 of the normal wrench. If I'm not mistaken it should be building closer to 7.7 seconds. The second test was with another fresh dispenser, but I started timing the first time the Jag hit the dispenser instead of as soon as it was deployed. I came up with about 9.1 seconds or so, so even cutting out the initial time it's not sped up didn't work. The third was a redeployed dispenser which came out to 5.01 seconds, instead of a 4.2. The other two were just controls. A fresh dispenser, and redeployed dispenser, both with the regular wrench. The former coming out to about 11.36 and the latter coming out to about 5.35. It might also be interesting to note that 85% of 13, referring to Sky's previous post, is approximately 11. Knowing that both wrenches take 8/10 of a second to complete, it would naturally give a similar result. Unit880 11:36, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

You're improperly calculating increased construction speed; you wouldn't subtract 30% of the construction time off of 11---the 30% is tossed in with the initial 90% boost, therefore, you'd divide 21 (default construction time) by 2.2 to arrive at what the jag's construction time *should* be, which, in this case, is 9.54 seconds...very close to your original calculations. If you factor in that this is how the 30% speed up is calculated, then I think you'll find the weapon/tool is functioning fully as intended--it's just a really crummy boost (subjective evaluation on my behalf).--Fox McCloud 05:17, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

90%? Where does this number come from? --Vaught 06:25, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Ah, I see. But I'm wondering where this 90% came into play as well. Unit880 06:58, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

The 90% increase in construction speed is the default wrench's construction rate when you bang on a sentry/dispenser/teleporter.--Fox McCloud 20:02, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Oh, now I see my error. Thanks for clearing that up for me. I was just confused because I never saw any explanation for removing the previous in here and it seems I fell into the same hole as whoever posted that did. I suppose I just desperately wanted to believe it was broken. Unit880 20:28, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

90%? The wrench cuts construction time down by half when using it on a constructing building, stated here. This would make the default 50%, wouldn't it? --Vaught 13:32, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Just to point out, for other curious people, where the exact decimal comes from, it derives from the following: 100% Construction rate + 90% Increase (hitting)+30% Increase (Jag)=220%. 100% Construction rate + 90% Increase (hitting) = 190% Stock. 220/190=1.15789, or 100+15.79% ≥My two cents≤ 17:26, 21 February 2012 (PST)

How does it work?

So, does it only speed up the building, or does it affect upgrading or repairing? Aggregation 19:50, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

It's meant to speed up the build and redeployed of a building, but it seems broken or needs a buff. because it seems to be the same speed as the wrench in my testing. Rocketlawnchair 02:28, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

Were you actually hitting the building, Lawn? It doesn't speed up the building if you aren't striking it. Zoolooman 02:30, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

yeah it hit it.

I cannot edit this page.

Why can't we edit this page? I was going to add that it cannot be crafted. Serrix 17:55, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

The page was protected back in October to prevent speculation being written - the jag had no stats, it was unintentionally slipped into the game. I've unprotected the page now, edit all you like :D. -RJs 18:09, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. Serrix 02:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

Crafting it?

how to craft it?--The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mardamien24 (talk) • (contribs)

If we knew it'd be on the article page. Also please remember to sign your comments with ~~~~. —Moussekateer·talk 05:30, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

Sappers

Anyone know if the -damage means it takes longer to remove sappers? Grug 02:30, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

I can confirm that sappers take two swings to remove with the Jag, as normal. Graven Image 14:21, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

Does the 30% faster construction rate stack with more Jag welding Engineers?

So I was playing TF2 today and both myself and another Engineer have the Jag. I set up a Dispenser and started to hit it and he came along a few seconds later and hit it as well. I think it built faster. Has anyone else tested this or seen anything like it? Thanks! Kuihej 04:34, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Tested it, more Jags equals even faster construction. DarkQuill 04:58, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

Jag Sapped Tele Bug

I really hadn't used the Jag before today, but I just noticed that when I de-sap my tele's, the Jag only does one side of the sapped teleporter set. I don't have a friend available to test this, so I could use a hand... Can anyone confirm that they're getting the same results as me? That the Jag only de-saps one side of a teleporter set, similar to the Homewrecker? Thanks in-advance for the help -- CptObvious 01:38, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

I noticed something like that. I thought it was an update since I haven't used any other wrench since this came out.--Flying Pyro 19:46, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

Right clicked sound effect?

There's a sound effect for the Jag and I don't know what it's for. It happens when you right click with it equipped.DennoCoil 03:30, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

You were on a server running a mod which drops metal if you right click when you're holding a wrench. —Moussekateer·talk 03:34, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Metal never dropped at all on that server. DennoCoil 19:26, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

I have no sound effect on mine, so I can only assume it was some mod the server was running or something you've done. —Moussekateer·talk 06:12, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

This seems to happen with every Engineer weapon for me - looks like it happens because you're trying to pick up a building that doesn't exist. DarkQuill 08:51, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

The Wrench Connection

According to the How to Achieve Engineer Achievements page, the Jag (or any other non-default wrench, for that matter) cannot net the player the The Wrench Connection achievement. Unfortunately, the way the related achievements are set up here, I can't make the change myself (since it's in a template and I really don't want to poke around with templates right now-- in previous Wiki experiences, I have had difficulty with them). Unless the How To page is incorrect on this, we may have to make a seperate template for the other wrenches (I guess since only the Wrench has unique achievements, we could just use a single template for the others). Can someone a little more experienced with templates help out with this? --Pikaandpi 15:31, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Kill icon

The kill icon shows that the player who has been killed by the Jag was hit by the back of it, but in the game they get hit by the other side. Should we mention this in the Trivia/Bugs section? --ScoutKast 17:49, 2 August 2011 (PDT)

The kill icon was player designed, so I don't think it could be a bug. If the people at Team Fortress 2 didn't like it they wouldn't have accepted it. I'm NOT going to remove it from the "Trivia" section yet. If it goes another few weeks without reason to keep it, I will remove it. Sgt Hailfire 10:07, 2 November 2011 (PDT)

Where did 15.79% come from?

Quote: As a result, the construction rate of any building being hit by the Jag is only increased by 15.79%, not 30%. Where did this 15.79 figure come from? I did some maths based on values from the Buildings page and I worked out the value is actually 13.64%, not 15.79% or 30%. Based on the calculation; 4.75 ÷ 5.5 x 100 = 86.34. 4.75 is the amount of time (seconds) it takes for the Jag to build a sentry on first deployment. 5.5 is the amount of time (seconds) it takes for the Wrench to build a sentry on first deployment. Am I doing anything wrong? Apologies if I missed something obvious. -- JakeSanchard 09:14, 30 November 2012 (PST)

Sappers, part 2

It is fact that Sappers have 100 health (first source of a few I found: http://pastebin.com/KuqLFsPc "Default Sapper health is 100."). It is fact that the Jag has a base damage of 48.75. So why does it only take 2 hits (97.5dmg) to destroy a Sapper? Toomai Glittershine 09:34, 5 February 2013 (PST)

Sound when picking up and moving the jag within the backpack.

I don't know if it is just me but I think the jag used to have a light metallic sound when you picked it up, like the sound of picking up a key. Now it has the normal heavy thud of the other wrenches. Am I wrong or did the sound get changed within the past year? Hayzze (talk) 09:56, 13 July 2016 (PDT)

Design Cont.

On Jman's submission post to the Polycount contest that he created the Jag for, he posted this photo of the wrench the Jag was based on (second wrench in the photo). Zach B (talk) 19:27, 16 July 2018 (UTC)

Cosmetic bug

I've noticed a cosmetic bug with the Jag where during the idle animation the Engineer's hand clips through it, I was wondering if I should add it in the bugs section. --The trashmann (talk) 18:18, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

Not notable enough to talk about. Please use "Add Topic" next time.
GrampaSwood (talk) 18:20, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

New damage value vs sappers

The most recent edit that adds the "Sappers: 43" line originates from this video: https://youtu.be/Poa-YjPFs9k It seems that due to an oversight or a balancing issue the 25% damage penalty doesn't apply to sappers, only the 33% one does. Should the video be added to the page as an annotation? Kiroma (talk) 23:33, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

something to note about this is how building damage always gets rounded down, unlike player damage:
damage vs players is 65 * 0.75 = 48.75 which gets rounded up to 49
damage vs buildings is 65 * 0.75 * 0.67 = 32.6625 which gets rounded down to 32
damage vs sappers is 65 * 0.67 = 43.55 also rounded down to 43
this could mean that some weapon pages might have incorrect damage values vs buildings

also, it's not an oversight: December 17, 2015_Patch
> Added damage penalty against buildings. Now takes 3 hits to destroy a Sapper.

WgetJane (talk) 03:13, 8 September 2020 (UTC)

The preceding discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it.