Team Fortress Wiki:Discussion

create a new section

Scout taunt voice lines in engi's page?

so i was browsing the engineer taunts and found scout voice lines for most of the new taunts, if anyone know's how to fix this please do — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sir scumbag (talk) • (contribs)

This discussion page isn't the right place to ask about this. Go to the Engineer Taunt's discussion page instead. If its technical issues, then try elsewhere. Thanks. Ashes (talk) 12:12, 10 July 2014 (PDT)

Responsive Wiki

Hi guys, after many edit spams i finally have it going properly and the full wiki functions with it Responsive wiki page.

Mess around and resize your browser, it will not break (at least to know knowledge).

so, what are your thoughts? - Lexar - talk 08:08, 14 July 2014 (PDT)

It's nice, however, I think the Full Moon icon should be centered and with a space between the Moon Status (The Moon Status centered as well). And the latest wiki caps awarded, make the users have a link to their userpages. Other than that, it's great. ▪ - 08:35, 14 July 2014 (PDT)

Items' original names, etc. and trivia

here instead of Help talk:Style guide/Trivia for greater exposure For a while now, trivia relating to items' original names, Workshop descriptions, and such have been deemed as not being notable. I'm personally for these being considered valid trivia, and I'm not sure where this convention (which isn't even noted in the trivia guidelines!) came from. The original names of community-contributed items are even mentioned in the main section of the articles, and it would only make sense to include explanations for the possible references included. I don't think I'm not the only one with this opinion. Due to how this isn't even mentioned in the trivia guidelines or never being properly discussed, confusion is further created about the notability of trivia like this. Due to the things I mentioned, I thought it's finally time to form a concrete guideline relating to this.

tl;dr: Is trivia relating to the original, now unofficial details of the item notable? Why? Why not? (contribs ▪ talk) 10:17, 14 July 2014 (PDT)

 Support - I agree, some items have only its creation due the name or the thing it was based on. In fact, some pages have the original names as a trivia, like the Falconer. ▪ - 10:27, 14 July 2014 (PDT)

I covered this over on the IRC somewhat, but I'll restate it here for everyone else. I think that original names would be pretty relevant to include, seeing as they are noted on the page. I'm not so sure about including descriptions, unless the information backs up other trivia regarding the item or item name (like with the Combustible Kabuto, the description references KLK, which the item's design does as well). In regards to sets, that's a lot more awkward. It fits with some items to include the trivia, such as with the Peacenik's Ponytail/Texas Tech-hand, due to the fact that the set was included ingame, but one of the items wasn't included in the set (for obvious reasons). I'm not sure that it's particularly interesting trivia to just say that "These items were contributed as part of this set, but they weren't marked as a set ingame", considering that the pages would already cover whether or not the item is in a set. Additionally, I think I've seen some items that are just put into collections on the workshop because of similar themes or something similar, even though the items wouldn't actually work as a set ingame. --Omolong (talk) 10:35, 14 July 2014 (PDT)

 Support I don't see any reason why this king of trivia can't be included.

Side question: do we need to translate workshop item/item set names for other languages? Maybe, just add translation in brackets alongside with the original name; I can't find anything about this in guidelines. Irvitzer (talk) 14:51, 14 July 2014 (PDT)

weapon demonstration

can i reserve a demonstration on the classic = an i am new to the wiki — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Cmj2003 (talk) • (contribs)

Please go to the weapon demonstration discussion page to reserve weapon demonstrations. This discussion page isn't for that. Ashes (talk) 12:59, 22 July 2014 (PDT)

Released inconsistency

It is all about the {{Item infobox template!
Shown in the item infobox: | released = issue
In the articles, by whoever wants to, there is added a link to a major update or the patch date. I find it confusing that it is not clear what is entered there.
The official documentation says:
When the item was released. Basic text parameter. Not displayed unless defined specifically.
So which is it:
1. Released: Mann vs. Machine Update
2. Released: August 15, 2012 Patch
?
Thanks for any help & informations. Magicalpony (talk) 06:56, 30 July 2014 (PDT)

I prefer Released: Mann vs. Machine Update since I feel more connected to major updates; when I read a specific date that was two years ago I don't think I can remember what happenend back then.

However, this will make the item infobox a little bit more inconsistent than just writing the date everywhere. SackZement <Talk> 07:03, 30 July 2014 (PDT)

It would make it a lot more consistent with pages in general if it noted the patch date rather than the update name, yeah. The update name should be listed in the main description and the Update history (at the very least) as well, so it's not like the actual update associated with it wouldn't be visible at the top of the page, if the patch date was in the infobox. In contrast, if the update name is in the infobox, it would mean that the patch date is only listed in the Update history, which can be a hassle to scroll down to if you just want to find out the date an item came out (for example, if an item has four styles that are all paintable, you'd have to scroll past all of the tables for the painted variants to get to that info). --Omolong (talk) 07:30, 30 July 2014 (PDT)

Sounds reasonable, but sometimes the update name is not listed in the main description (and sometimes not even in the update history) and you have to scroll down to the update history aswell. Can't we have both in the item infobox like in most patch notes (June 23, 2011 Patch (Über Update))? Give it a line break between the patch date and the patch name and the item infobox will still look smooth. SackZement <Talk> 04:45, 31 July 2014 (PDT)

It'd probably be a good idea to make sure that all pages do have the update name in the description and the update history at some point. That idea about putting them both in the infobox could work, though. It would just depend on how it actually looked when put on the page. It could be the best solution, really. --Omolong (talk) 07:32, 31 July 2014 (PDT)

Preview here, feel free to edit at will. I tend to the version with the line break. The one in one line (last one, with nowrap) might be the best as long as it still fits in the infobox, which will be not the case for third community weapon update or something. SackZement <Talk> 08:34, 31 July 2014 (PDT)

I think the first one is best there, really. I think it'd be more consistent if the update names were all on a separate line underneath the patch date, rather than some of them being on the same line, some of them being on a separate line, and some having to wrap from the patch date line to the second line. So yeah, the one with the line break looks best to me. Might be worth getting some staff input on this before we go ahead with changing any pages for it, though. --Omolong (talk) 08:43, 31 July 2014 (PDT)

 Support the version with a line break. (contribs ▪ talk) 09:14, 31 July 2014 (PDT)

 Support SackZement's version with a line break. — Wind 15:24, 3 August 2014 (PDT)

 Done - The pages have been edited to follow SackZement's consistency version. However, item set pages weren't edited due the infobox works differently than the normal item pages. ▪ - 13:03, 19 December 2014 (PST)

 Done - Item sets are all done. ▪ - 06:23, 21 December 2014 (PST)

Availability template(?)

It is all about the {{Item infobox template!
Issue: Availability
Every language needs to update after an update. Simply: Copy over the english information in the other languages (hats/weapons/others). Wouldnt it be more efficient if the info is stored in one place (like th dictionary) and it is automaticly applied for the other languages. I find it inefficient how it is done at the time.
The official documentation says:
The means of obtaining the item. Basic text parameter. Not displayed unless defined specifically.
I think this is outdated and should be thought over at least once.
Thanks for any help & informations. Magicalpony (talk) 06:56, 30 July 2014 (PDT)

This could be a good idea. It would mean that you'd only have to make one edit to update all of the language pages for a single item. It would also make it easier to update a bunch of items from one update that need a new availability (like the Love & War cosmetics being updated to show that they can be received in drops), rather than having to edit every single item and all of their language pages. Something like Template:QuAD could work, but I'd have no idea how to implement it. --Omolong (talk) 07:30, 30 July 2014 (PDT)

While this could be implemented with relative ease using a dictionary, I personally don't think it's required as those strings would only have one very niche use. The manual updating works just fine, I think. (contribs ▪ talk) 09:23, 31 July 2014 (PDT)

This sounds like {{Dictionary/quad}} — Wind 15:24, 3 August 2014 (PDT)

How much strategy in Maps articles?

Due the recent activity on Gorge & 2Fort i asked myself: How much is really a map description and what is in the direct area of strategy?
The Style guide for maps doesnt reveal any significant information about the matter.
Text like: "...often sniper lurk there" or "often a sentry gun is there" are valid information about how to decribe a map? Or should it only be in the community strategy article of a map? Relevant example link: Gorge ; cleanup needed? Magicalpony (talk) 21:13, 11 August 2014 (PDT)

I think stating common spots is not really "strategy" and as long as it's not overused it can actually help to describe (the playstyle of) the map.SackZement <Talk> 02:09, 12 August 2014 (PDT)

Have to agree with SackZement here - the likes of Snipers on the balcony of 2Fort isn't just strategy, but a key map feature present in virtually all games. » Cooper Kid (blether) • (contreebs) 08:24, 12 August 2014 (PDT)

MediaWiki extensions

Is there any plan to introduce MediaWiki extensions such as Mobile Web (Mobile Frontend) or the Visual Editor? Canis (talk) 00:59, 25 September 2014 (PDT)

Craft No. for limited item

New things out of the box are #86 Limited Quantity and can not be bought or craft, I think you need to write NO — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Leonaz (talk) • (contribs)

They're marked as having craft numbers in the schema. Almost all items added to the game this year have been marked as craftable, even if they're not craftable at the time of release, like the Strongbox items. --Omolong (talk) 05:40, 27 September 2014 (PDT)

Leonaz (talk) 06:02, 27 September 2014 (PDT)So you can fix to the NO? — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Leonaz (talk) • (contribs)

It should be marked as yes. An item being craftable and an item having craft numbers are two separate settings in the schema. All of the new cosmetics have craft numbers, and as such, the infobox should state yes for that section. --Omolong (talk) 05:45, 27 September 2014 (PDT)

Leonaz (talk) 06:02, 27 September 2014 (PDT)But they can not be craft or found so it can not get my room forging — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Leonaz (talk) • (contribs)

That is irrelevant to if they have craft numbers. As I said, being craftable and having craft numbers are two separate settings. Also, you should sign your posts with four ~. --Omolong (talk) 05:52, 27 September 2014 (PDT)

Merging Availability and Dictionary/Quad

These both contain the same information, except that quad contains the end quality. Would it be worth the effort to change {{Avail}} to pull information from quad instead? Darkid (Talk | Contribs) 13:37, 1 October 2014 (PDT)

Edit: This change would likely be chainging {{Quad/list}} to add a parameter to put out a different style of info, namely the style that avail uses. Darkid (Talk | Contribs) 22:17, 1 October 2014 (PDT)

Scream Fortress 2014 or Scream Fortress VI?

The page naming for the past Halloween Specials have been remarkably inconsistent. They're either using the title from the Update pages or using the one in the patch notes.

Haunted Hallowe'en Special aka Haunted Hallowe'en Special (2009)

• No patch note title.

Scream Fortress Update aka Second Annu-Hell Scream Fortress Hauntdead Halloween Special

• Patch Note: *Halloween 2010 Event*

Very Scary Halloween Special

• Patch Note: *Halloween 2011 Event*

Spectral Halloween Special

• Patch Note: *Scream Fortress Event 2012*

Scream Fortress Fifth Annual Helloween Special

• Uses patch note title: Scream Fortress 2013

Scream Fortress Sixth Annual Halloween Special

• Patch note: Scream Fortress VI

Half of the pages use some variation of Scream Fortress and the other half uses the update page title.

19:44, 29 October 2014 (PDT)

I've been using Scream Fortress 2014 to keep it consistent with Scream Fortress 2013. The two of them don't have any special name like the previous years do, and it's pretty unwieldy to have it listed as "Scream Fortress Fifth/Sixth Annual Halloween Special". I'd rather use Scream Fortress 2014 instead of Scream Fortress VI for consistency with last year's event. --Omolong (talk) 19:48, 29 October 2014 (PDT)

Seconded, will create templates with these names. Darkid (Talk | Contribs) 06:00, 30 October 2014 (PDT)

2013 actually did have a name: the Helloween Special. VinLAURiA (talk) 17:28, 8 November 2014 (PST)

Unlocked Creepy Crates

Where should they be put? They're named crates, but they don't share the same mechanic as classic crates, since they don't need any key. In this regard, they're more like others "Crate like items". They're also only obtainable through purchasing them on the store. I believe they should get their own page since they're a new system. Just wanted to ask before doing something like that.

Sk8er Of Bodom (talk) 17:44, 30 October 2014 (PDT)

They're still crates, and they don't have a series, so I've been working on them going in Mann Co. Supply Crate/Seriesless crates. --Omolong (talk) 17:46, 30 October 2014 (PDT)

Still doesn't feel right to me. They are even considered as an action slot item by the game. If they are only new seriesless crates, then what's the difference between these and for example the Halloween Goodie Cauldron or Halloween Gift Cauldron? Or the Mann Co. Painting Set? Or all these items in the Crate like items category? Is it just because they actually look like crates and have "crate" in their name? Sk8er Of Bodom (talk) 18:39, 30 October 2014 (PDT)

Thought I responded to this, whoops. Anyway, it might be a good idea to try and get some opinions from other people about this. I think it's better for them to go with crates as it makes them less confusing to look for, seeing as they do look like crates and are called crates. Other people might have different reasons to agree or disagree, so getting their opinions (if possible) could help us come to a proper solution for this. --Omolong (talk) 21:34, 31 October 2014 (PDT)

I would say categorize them under crates. If you look at the Dota 2 system regarding crates or in their case "Treasures" They're still the same as any other treasure before they removed the key system. This is sort of like that. Still a crate just without a key. So no matter how you look at it, its still a crate, you just spend less for the key. Ashes (talk) 10:57, 2 November 2014 (PST)

Update on the wiki mobile (Its a decent menu!)

Been a while I know but i have made some progress here.

any ideas to what you would like to be changed? - Lexar - talk 21:17, 1 November 2014 (PDT)

This is almost functionally complete (yay), but stylistically not (boo). Here's what I think:

• The top-left menu icon doesn't look really like one. It looks very flat and the lines are a bit too fat and wide to be menu-like.
• The menu items aren't differentiated between those that expand and those that don't. It's also not immediately obvious that they're expandable in the first place.
• The menu sub-links are larger in font size than the name of the menu they're in.
• It'd help to have the rest of the page shown in the example, to see how it fits the rest of the page. As-is, I think (imaging the page being there) that it would appear too flat compared to the gradienty/dropshadow-ness that the rest of the page uses.
• If possible, make the two page menus separated like they are in mediawiki (page + discuss on one side, read/edit/history/etc on the other). If not differently-aligned, at least put some separator in the middle to make it clear that they're two different sets of switches.
• Animations would be nice, similar to how there's animations on the wiki sidebar items.
• Where would account information/notifications appear, or the login/register link when logged out?

This sounds like a bunch of complaints but they're all stylistic besides the last one, so yay for ze sound of progress~ — Wind 21:48, 1 November 2014 (PDT)

Thanks Wind,

I hope I understood your points correctly. to see the new one you have to have your browsers viewport at 850 or less (and i know i didn't put the wiki content in there, please forgive). I have made changes here.

complete with little animations and everything.

- Lexar - talk 01:01, 2 November 2014 (PST)

This is really great progress in such a short time.

Still some complaints:

• Need to see it with the page content. This is both to see if it matches stylistically but also to see the transition between modes when the window is resized.
• Menu button still doesn't look like a menu. The lines are too thick and too long. Maybe it could be made into a really obvious button by making it look like

A real buttonA real button with the 3 little lines inside.

• Can you show examples when logged in, and with notifications?
• Have you tried playing with TF2 fonts? No need to use them if they look bad, but if they look OK it might be worth using them, much like they are used for tab names on the current skin.

Yay progress — Wind 01:19, 2 November 2014 (PST)

Thanks, I have worked on these points as best as i could. you should be able to see the menu implemented here, I MAY have to work on the account notification bit, it looks fine, but doesn't really have a defining look to it. Please tell me how you wish the account bit to look with a logged in user and it will be done =D - Lexar - talk 06:47, 2 November 2014 (PST)

Feels pretty great to see it on a real page.

• Need preloading of all resources. This includes the hovered version of the menu button, the hovered version of the search bar toggle button, and the "reversed" version of the search bar toggle button. I advise against putting them as separate images and insert them in a hidden div to preload them. Instead put them inside the same image as the existing version (non-hovered menu button, search bar toggle button) and use the background-position trick, similar to how the dropdown works or how {{TF button}} works. This way, either the element is fully loaded and works 100%, or it isn't loaded at all. There is no intermediate state where only one of the states has loaded.
• The account Soldier picture throws off text alignment This wasn't very noticeable with the non-TF2 font, but now it is noticeable.
• If you set your viewport narrow and refresh the page, the desktop skin appears for a while before the page has finished loading, and then there's a sudden jump when the menu activates. I assume that this is because it's JavaScript doing the "hey this page has a custom Page.css and I should load this now" late into the page load, and that this won't be the case when the CSS @media rules are part of the site's CSS proper.
• Please convert the JavaScript code to a self-contained object under a single variable, similar to almost everything on MediaWiki:Common.js past the "Collapsible tables" section.
• Can the "Log out" link be right-aligned to separate it from the others? (Optional, I just think it'd look nicer)
• I think we could still use some things to make the menu look nicer (especially the sidebar one as it's kind of bland), but I have no specific suggestions. I think the rest of the staff may have some when they take a look at this though, so hopefully there'll be some actionable items out of that

— Wind 14:07, 2 November 2014 (PST)

Rjackson suggested we should not have it looking like a button but instead just leave it being 3 plain while lines on the normal background.

In Rjacksons words "call WindPower a "poopy mc poop head"" as "everybody knows three horizontal lines = menu button"

No idea how it should go but maybe there should be a small discussion on its own about this particular point. - Lexar - talk 04:31, 3 November 2014 (PST)

  Overall: I really like the design, it feels and looks good. Nothing more to say, I think.

  Menu button: I'm rather neutral about this, I like both variants. It'd be also possible to use just the three lines, but distinguish them from the rest of the top bar by adding a darker background.

{ TidB | t | c | wt } 14:09, 3 November 2014 (PST)

Languages sidebar on TFW: and Help: namespaces

{{Mw-langlink}}, which generates the sidebar "Languages" section, currently excludes the Team Fortress Wiki and Help namespaces. This means that pages like Help:Colors/ja do not have appropriate language links on the sidebar. I see two options:

1. Encourage translation of pages within these namespaces, and enable this template in these namespaces
2. Discourage translations of these pages, remove the few that are translated, and leave the template as it is.

Thoughts? Darkid (Talk | Contribs) 15:37, 10 November 2014 (PST)

Mentioning item names too often

Hai, I think we need to mention item names less often. It just came to my mind when I saw Gabriel's recent edits like this and that. Personally, I think this is unnecessary and bloats the page. If we continue using "this item" or something similar, it'd still be clear what item is meant without citing the full name again. I have to admit, I've always used the full item name until now, but I think it's time to change this. Some areas that might need changing include the promotional sentence ("was given to player who pre-ordered"), the community sentence ("was contributed to the Steam Workshop") and the thumbnails ("Steam Workshop thumbnail for the"). I'd like to hear some opinions about it.
{ TidB | t | c | wt } 05:37, 16 November 2014 (PST)

 Neutral A wiki should be a place for unambiguous information which is guaranteed by repeating the item name. However, I neither think writing "this item" would hurt too much, nor think changing it is worth the effort or improves the flow of reading. SackZement <Talk> 02:28, 12 December 2014 (PST)

Alrighty, I'll create German pages with "this item" and the like from now on and leave the rest untouched for now. { TidB | t | c | wt } 06:31, 12 December 2014 (PST)

New Pants Page?

We're starting to get a lot of pants items now with the EOTL update coming out. Should we make a new disambiguation page leading to pants in general? Bruss48 _{(T | C)} 15:47, 11 December 2014 (PST)

Game mode goals

Many of the map articles have a paragraph that describes the goal of the map. For example, Capture the Flag maps have "The goal of the map is to capture the Intelligence three times, while preventing the enemy from doing the same." I think these descriptions are unnecessary and redundant - the goal is already described in the game mode article, and it should be removed from the map article.

However, the description should remain for maps where the goal is different than other maps of the same game mode. For example, Mountain Lab has three successive control points, compared to the usual two on an Attack/Defend map or the five on a Symmetric map. In this case, it would be useful to have the description in the article.

What do you think? Doktor (talk) 21:45, 28 December 2014 (PST)

What happened to the wiki?

There is no more custom theme, but only basic Vector ! Nicolapps 10:15, 10 January 2015 (PST)

Everything is back to normal. I do not know what could this happen. I screenshots in case. Nicolapps 10:20, 10 January 2015 (PST)

Extension:Translate

Mediawiki version 1.24 introduces Extension:Translate, a different way of handling language translation. The primary benefits to this wiki are:

1. Shared content across pages. We currently use a dictionary along with various other templates to accomplish this.
2. Automatic translation linking. We currently use the sidebar, which has some bugs as this is not a standard usage.
3. Flagging outdated translations. This is currently not done.
4. Various statistics (currently compiled by WindBOT, through templates, or by scripts).

The cost to usual editors is this: English pages would have <translate>tags around</translate> text that needed translation. These strings appear to translators for the edit page in another language. Thus, we would have to split our translations into these strings.
The benefit to usual editors is this: Templates and possibly other parts of the pages could be synchronized more easily between languages. It is clearer to translators when a page is outdated. More work done by translators would be re-used.
The benefit to more casual readers is the "quality of translation" links, which indicate if a translation is out of date or incomplete.
Answers to a few concerns I had:

• This extension will not break any pages we currently have. The software only takes control when it finds <translate> tags.
• This extension uses the same language scheme. Pages are linked via slash (Main Page/es), rather than the wikia standard of colon (es:Main Page).

I would  Support this extension (and MediaWiki upgrade) being tested and slowly introduced. Darkid (Talk | Contribs) 08:17, 27 January 2015 (PST)

 Neutral Sounded like the main benefit that is currently not solved in another way (windbot etc.) is finding out of date translations, but I guess articles are out of date because translators do not have the time to keep them updated instead of not knowing which articles should be redone?

The software only takes control when it finds <translate> tags. This sounds good.

this extension (and MediaWiki upgrade) being tested and slowly introduced. This is a very important part. SackZement <Talk> 02:16, 28 January 2015 (PST)

 Why not ? Nicolapps 12:49, 28 January 2015 (PST)

What happened to the TF2 Wiki when it was down earlier this week?

I was really worried. Does anyone know about the past situation? { <3 SpriteFan3 © } (talk) 19:30, 7 February 2015 (PST)

AFAIK a switch broke in the datacenter, so valve couldn't fix it immediately, they had to contact their host and get it fixed there. Darkid (Talk | Contribs) 19:32, 7 February 2015 (PST)

AFAIK the story above could be true, but i suspect magic and a rise in darkness. What the real truth is we will never know. We can just hope that the next time a magical warded backup route is secured. (Test if edits work for me without 10x 503 errors like before) Magicalpony (talk) 21:08, 7 February 2015 (PST)

PNG vs JPG

Hello, I have a question about the images of major updates. What is better for high-resolution images? e.g.:

• JPG 100% quality lossless (1,600 × 7,052 pixels, file size: 1.69 MB) File:Love_and_War_day_2.jpg
• PNG (580 × 3,350 pixels, file size: 1.69 MB) File:LoveAndWarUpdate_Day2.png (lowered resolution, text is difficult to read)

Yeap i can do PNG with 100% quality lossless but file size will be 8-10 Mb (1,600 × 7,052 pixels) + can compress (4-5 Mb) but it is still more than JPG. (I have fast internet connection 100 Mbit/s but people with slow internet have problems with image 4+ MB). May be JPG format will be better for images of major updates? RADIST 06:19, 1 March 2015 (PST)

 Yes for JPG, I think It's important to keep the best quality available for an image.

Silly Pingwins

06:37, 1 March 2015 (PST)

 No for JPG. Both of those images have different pixels, so it's difficult to differ which one has the best quality. What tool did you to take a screenshot of the page? I use Firefox command called "screenshot --fullpage", The quality is amazing and gets the whole page (that includes youtube player, etc.). ▪ - 06:59, 1 March 2015 (PST)

Source images + Adobe Photoshop CC 2014 (+ plugins) + Adobe Illustrator CC (for best quality text) (especially for translations). Source code have all necessary links, buttons, icons ...It takes longer, but we get original page images. I know about "screenshot --fullpage", but screenshots this is not the original image. And if you have a problem with drivers (or setting) or you dont have any font, then screenshot will with these defects. I'm not saying that your screenshots bad, question was: for what upload 4MB images if you can upload small_size_excellent_quality_analogs (you can easily convert format)? RADIST 07:37, 1 March 2015 (PST)

Didn't got any problem with it yet. Maybe you can do with that process but save in .png? Even being a 4MB file. The Triad Trinket infobox image is pretty big too (1.27mb). ▪ - 07:42, 1 March 2015 (PST)

Thanks for opinion. But I have not heard answer on my question. Well, here's the same image, but in different formats:

• PNG (1200 × 6375 pixels, file size: 4,63 MB)
• JPG (1200 × 6375 pixels, file size: 1,55 MB) RADIST 14:01, 1 March 2015 (PST)

Seems to be fine, but, as you said, you make mount those images via Photoshop, and if the image has transparency? .JPG does not handle alpha mask, but, I suppose the background would be there for that. ▪ - 14:46, 1 March 2015 (PST)

So is the argument here that PNG doesn't compress as well as JPG? Because that's clearly true in the original example, the JPG is larger dimensions at the same filesize. One of the standard reasons to use PNG (as I believe it is here) is that the PNG format is lossless compression, so while it may have larger filesizes, there is no quality loss over the original. JPG is often used for the reverse, when size is a strong concern, for example when bandwidth is limited, e.g. mobile platforms.

The question of quality is obviously a moot point when the JPG image is graphically larger, it should be favored in that case unless the compression makes it unreadable. There is the additional concern of transparency, but that's not very serious.

In the end, 4 MB for a file should be a reasonably fast download. 100 Mb/sec gives you a painful 1.5 minute download speed, but for a large image (like a page-long update blurb) it's probably worth it. The main thing I would say is that in the case of already-existent images (update page images, e.g.) there's no reason to be taking a web browser screenshot, it's more reasonable to use the actual file. If that file is large, we can always convert it to an SVG. Darkid (Talk | Contribs) 15:22, 1 March 2015 (PST)

"Action taunt", "action taunt", "Special taunt" or "special taunt"?

I think it's pretty odd the uppercase on "Action taunt" that it is right now on the pages. But, according to the Mann Co. Store, all those 'custom' taunts are named "Special Taunt". Shouldn't be those called "Special Taunt" instead of "Action taunt", as it follows how it's written in-game? ▪ - 14:17, 2 April 2015 (PDT)

Safe Feature

Alright so, I've been working on translating here for quite some time, though sometimes, the pages I'm translating are fairly long, and it sometimes happens that by some stupid accident I lose a lot of progress. Is there a way we could like a "save" feature? Where you can see the wiki pages you are editing, or limit it so you can only have one save at a time, that would be sufficient. What I want is the possibility to kind of have page in Limbo, so it is saved on the wiki, but not displayed. Then once you are done with it, you publish it. The thing is, I know there are alternative ways to save your progress, like opening a word document or something, but it just seems like such a hassle. And of course you can't just leave half-translated/edited pages on the Wiki. So i ask this: Would it be possible to get a button, like between Watchlist and Contributions that's like Work In Progress or WIP for short. I don't know, you guys are the experts. So.. what do you say? --Mrsirpotatohead (talk) 00:11, 3 April 2015 (PDT) ¨´¨´¨

Unfortunately i don't think this is possible. As you said, the most you can do is regularly save it to a word document, otherwise you can leave a half-translated page on your user sandbox, then migrate it over to the main page. Ashes (talk) 11:26, 3 April 2015 (PDT)

Any reason for community maps?

I was wondering, why is there so many community maps on the Wiki? I don't think they should be here in the first place, since the Community websites policy was taken (I know it was for websites). A lot of those maps, at least in my opinion, aren't that interesting. Not forgetting how bland/empty most of the custom map pages are. Of course that some maps were mentioned in some blog posts (like the Walkway) and some participated as a map creation competition, but I still think they shouldn't be as pages too. Since we're talking about community stuff, the Community mods should have a review too. While a lot of them are pretty interesting, I think it would fall to the same problem, although, there aren't many community mods in this Wiki as community maps, so I'm not sure about it. ▪ - 08:55, 18 April 2015 (PDT)

black mesa items incoming

should we start making pages for the new black mesa promo items coming up? — The preceding unsigned comment was added by CwalkPinoy (talk) • (contribs)

There's no confirmation that the items are going to be ingame. There's a number of promo items for games on the Workshop that have never been added to the actual game. If there ever is a confirmation/the items get added to the game, then the pages can be created. --Omolong (talk) 08:23, 10 May 2015 (PDT)

Should the Iron Bomber and the Panic Attack's stats be changed?

Hello everyone. I'm weirdengi, new user to the wiki.

What I want to talk about for today is about the Iron Bomber. You may be familiar to this weapon, it was added in the Smissmas 2014 Update.

As you can see, the iron bombers stats look fine, but whenever you use it, the barrel would not spin due to unknown reasons by Valve. The stats should be changed by holding the mouse by firing 4 grenades at one that way it can spin, it will do extra damage with 4 grenades in one shot. The reload animation needs to get fixed, it looks like the Demoman didn't know how to reload because he's drunk. He needs to put one grenade, turn it and put another one in there, and so on.

Hold the fire button and hold 4 shells until it fires.

+45% damage to players

+11% clip size

-25 health penalty

Anyways, let's go on to the panic attack.

The Panic Attack's shells doesn't go in there with the pyro. I checked the rest of the classes, and it did the same thing. We need to fix the reload also. We need to change the stats for this one.

+25% damage penalty.

Cannot load 4 shells in there. (Which means you cannot put 4 shells and automatically shoot)

Firing speed goes fast whenever your health gets low. (Just like the Escape Plan.)

+50% clip size.

-10% moving speed

-15% weapon spread.

Do these weapon stats work? I will come back and receive your feedback and replies — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Weirdengi (talk) • (contribs)

This sort of thing shouldn't be on here. This page (and the talk pages in general) are for discussing wiki content. If you want to talk about weapon stats, go to the Discussions on Steam or the Steam forums. --Omolong (talk) 11:49, 16 May 2015 (PDT)

Useless Pages

Not sure if this is the right place to talk about this as i'm relatively new to this wiki, but are some pages located in this category really necessary? Some pages only show items that came from a promotion and/or a link to another wiki. Wouldn't it just be easier to simply link this pages to their respective wikis or Wikipedia instead of creating a useless page? -Pokebub (talk) 22:11, 19 May 2015 (PDT)

I'd say they're fine. The purpose of those pages are to give a general view of the game. Though brief, its just enough to get a decent idea of what the game is without going to the respective wiki which would have too much info for someone who'd want to know about it in a very short time. Ashes (talk) 05:14, 20 May 2015 (PDT)

The pages are also useful for showing which items are related to that game (Promotional items), as well linking to the store page of said game. ▪ - 07:56, 20 May 2015 (PDT)

Workshop link to community maps?

With the new addition of Steam Workshop Subscribe method, do you guys think that a link for the page to subscribe to that map is necessary on community map pages? A wording different than the typical "The (item) was contributed to the Steam Workshop.", something like "This map can be subscribed at its "Workshop page" (With a link of the page on the quotation, but remove the quotation when decided to add into the pages. ▪ - 07:50, 3 June 2015 (PDT)

Halloween Spells Video Demos

So someone brought this up again and it was discussed before but no input so I'm going to bring it up again. Should we make videos or have images (or even gifs) of each halloween spells showcasing what they do/what they look like, etc. We've done it with Unusual effects already so why not with Halloween Spells? (And possibly taunt effects) Thoughts? Ashes (talk) 15:19, 28 June 2015 (PDT)

Taunt unusual effects have been done already. I don't know if HLMV supports it, unless various screenshots are taken of each frame of the spell animation. I'm looking through the game files to see how the paint works (if it is possible to find in items_game.txt, which I hope). If we're going to do the spells images for the paints, why not the footprints as well? Plus, videos for spells that changes voices and etc. ▪ - 19:48, 28 June 2015 (PDT)

Something else: If you have an item with paint spell applied, you can see the paint splash icon fading as well. This can be helpful to get the HEX value of the first frame of the animation and the last, and then getting the difference of the hue from each and make the rest of the colors. I suggest using a mod to make the splash clear, though, the halloween paints are broken for now and it doesn't animate. ▪ - 20:07, 28 June 2015 (PDT)

Broken huh, is it not possible to simulate it the same way? Ashes (talk) 05:24, 29 June 2015 (PDT)

I don't have any items with spells and I don't plan to apply any in the future. Well, there's this guy who made a video comparing the spells on a Gibus (Have all the spell paints except the Spectral Spectrum on BLU): [1]. As you can see, some spells have their fading effect quicker than others. ▪ - 08:10, 29 June 2015 (PDT)

GIFs for skins

On the IRC, Ashes and I came up with an idea of creating gif images for the skins to show how the wear effects the guns in visual appearance. The GIFs would also mean less images that would need to be uploaded, and would allow for editing of the collection pages to be easier and cleaner as they wouldn't be cluttered with so many images. Thoughts? Ideas? --Dr. Scaphandre (talk) 12:24, 5 July 2015 (PDT)

 Disagree The page would be too cluttered with .gif images. And pages for each skin doesn't work either. Plus, way too big .gif gifs has their quality reduced, so the Wear for it wouldn't be very distinguishable, unless we go with .webm. ▪ - 12:33, 5 July 2015 (PDT)

 Agree I agree that we COULD have such a concept, however I think we should use formats that Wikipeddia uses, like '.ogg'. I have not tested '*.ogg' on mobile, but I know that '*.gifv' and '*.webm' do not work on Samsung devices, this would put the site lower on google, and that is bad. Rob, collects stars But some people think I hold them. 11:03, 10 November 2015 (PST)

After going back to this, i'll have to revoke my standing on this and disagree. As much as GIFs would be a clear understanding, this is a wiki after all. GIFs on one page would cause load time issues, especially for users with less powerful computers. Unless the GIFs are hosted on an external site by Valve/Wiki I don't think it will work out. NOTE, This discussion is kinda old now so its kinda... dead. Ashes (talk) 11:08, 10 November 2015 (PST)

I figured that was enough to revive this. Guess it's super dead now.Rob, collects stars But some people think I hold them. 11:13, 10 November 2015 (PST)

dont know if this is where to send it.

Hey its me TheUnknownFireBoy, I have no idea if this is where i send stuff to help out the Wiki or something, But. Im doing it anyway. So had a few ideas on how to help the WIKI.

1st = insted of pictures for the cosmetics try adding like a 3D view of it so we can spin the cosmetics around.

2nd = insted of putting decorated you can try to place the decorated weapons in the specific stock weapon place coz they are just reskines likes the decorated scatterguns for example the backcountry scattergun coz its a reskin it should be in the scattergun wiki page. Yeah i know there decorated weps they should be in the decorated page. BUT. Try putting the decorated quality in the spicific weapons page? my opinion.

And yeah thats all i have idea for the wiki.

If you want to contact me or anything here-----> steam name : not available coz my profil does not appear anywhere.

but here is my email.----- Racershmoe@hotmail.com — The preceding unsigned comment was added by TheUnknownFireBoy (talk) • (contribs)

1. This was considered. However, making 3d models takes time, and there are way too many hats in the game. If you'd like to do this, I'm glad to help, but it's a serious endeavor.

2. You'll need to state this one again, with some better grammar -- I've no idea what you said.

I'd discourage you from sharing your email on the web, instead people can post on your talk page or use Special:EmailUser to contact you directly.

Darkid (Talk | Contribs) 14:26, 9 October 2015 (PDT)

MP3 Voice Lines

As you know, the voice lines in TF2 are now in MP3 format instead of WAV. In addition to being much smaller files which would reduce bandwidth use, MP3 is also natively supported by every major browser -- unlike WAV, which requires a plugin like QuickTime. Would it be a good idea to replace all of the files with the MP3 versions? Steve the Pocket (talk) 11:41, 8 August 2015 (PDT)

Unless there's a particular space concern (there isn't), I see no need to degrade the quality of all the voice lines. Darkid (Talk | Contribs) 14:26, 9 October 2015 (PDT)

"Class speed table" update.

The class speed table, found on the "classes" page, needs to be updated for a formatting error (inconsistent italicizing) and to add the speed boost from the Booties under the demoman category. I'm not sure how to do that, so I'm putting this out here. — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Don't (talk) • (contribs)

The template source is here, and I don't know what italicizing problem you see. Try to add the booties change yourself, but if you get stuck, don't hesitate to ask. Darkid (Talk | Contribs) 14:26, 9 October 2015 (PDT)

Marketable Item listing

On the item information tables we have each item listed on whether or not it is tradable and/or giftable. Why not add another listing for whether an item is marketable or not? A lot of older hats and some new ones cannot be put onto the market, while some can. --Dr. Scaphandre (talk) 18:20, 30 September 2015 (PDT)

I believe the rationale is that tradable/giftable is in the schema, so it's consistent. Marketable changes are server-side, and are much harder to track consistently. Darkid (Talk | Contribs) 14:26, 9 October 2015 (PDT)

No I'm not talking about adding the market listings, I'm saying if we should put on the infobox whether an item can be added to the market. Just because an item is tradable doesn't mean that it's also marketable. --Dr. Scaphandre (talk) 14:32, 9 October 2015 (PDT)

Ah, I was unaware that information was in the schema. If you're willing to add it; have at it. I can update the infobox if you need. Darkid (Talk | Contribs) 11:40, 13 October 2015 (PDT)

Edit: In fact, I think I'm right. There are only 12 items listed as "is_marketable". How do you propose to find out if an item is marketable or not? Darkid (Talk | Contribs) 11:42, 13 October 2015 (PDT)

I'm going to search through the market for every cosmetic & rare item that has a listing and compile a list. Then once the infobox is updated I will update every page to have the information. I think there should be disclaimers for most of the items explaining that unique versions are not marketable though. --Dr. Scaphandre (talk) 12:11, 13 October 2015 (PDT)

Hmmm, what about qualities? (e.g. AWP, the unique isn't marketable, however genuine and strange are.) — The preceding assigned comment was added by Tark {Finish Him! ▪ Contribs} 12:35, 13 October 2015 (PDT)

Edit: Also, killstreak weapons are marketable. — The preceding assigned comment was added by Tark {Finish Him! ▪ Contribs} 12:36, 13 October 2015 (PDT)

The whole reason that we didn't add things like craftable was because they were too dynamic. We don't have any way of knowing when valve updates the marketable items list, so we don't know how quickly the information will be out of date. Darkid (Talk | Contribs) 12:47, 13 October 2015 (PDT)

So no? This info can be useful sometime but If we can't update every time it can be a big problem (or not). — The preceding assigned comment was added by Tark {Finish Him! ▪ Contribs} 07:24, 18 October 2015 (PDT)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ Once again, it's a question of if misinformation is worse than no information at all. I'm of the opinion it is, that was the choice in the past (again, craftability), so yes, let's leave it out of the infobox. Darkid (Talk | Contribs) 07:33, 18 October 2015 (PDT)

Scream Fortress question

I know since Scream Fortress 2013 we use the year as complement, but in the website is used roman numerals (IV, V, VI, VII). So, why we can't use? — The preceding assigned comment was added by Tark {Finish Him! ▪ Contribs} 14:18, 30 October 2015 (PDT)

Dunno. I think it's because the community calls the Halloween updates Scream Fortress even though the 2009, 2011, and 2012 updates were called something different, and only at 2013 did Valve started calling it Scream Fortress for all updates. --Dr. Scaphandre (talk) 08:32, 5 November 2015 (PST)

Community Strategy Project

For a while, community strategy pages have been kinda neglected. Pages haven't been updated since Gun Mettle, and some pages have even been left redlinked for years. Now, I am introducing the Community Strategy Project, a place for strategists, guide writers, and the likes to meet up and give the pages the attention they need. If you have good gameplay advice, tips and tricks, or like writing strategy guides, then this is the place for you. Feel free to stop by and help out if you wish. --Dr. Scaphandre (talk) 16:48, 7 November 2015 (PST)