Difference between revisions of "Team Fortress Wiki:Discussion"

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== Adding alt text to images ==
 
  
There doesn't seem to be a consistent method of adding alt text to pictures found in articles, which is a major accessibility barrier. It would be great if this could be managed somehow.
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== Dark Mode ==
[[User:Crabguy|Crabguy]] ([[User talk:Crabguy|talk]]) 20:20, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
 
  
:So for images using <nowiki>[[File:]]</nowiki>, the alt parameter should work fine. Images in the <nowiki><gallery></nowiki> tag can also use the <nowiki>|alt=</nowiki>, but it should be between the description text and the filename such as
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I don't think I even need to explain this. Wikipedia itself has it, so do other wikis. I do have a browser extension for dark mode, and optimally a dark theme for TFwiki should still keep muted earthy orangish tones and such, but at this point with my eye strain I'd take anything. It would encourage more dedicated editing streaks, perhaps, since many of us are night owls too.--[[File:Leaderboard class allclass.png|15px|link=]] [[User:Akolyth|<span style="font-size: 14px; font-family: Trebuchet MS">'''Akolyth'''</span>]] ([[User_talk:Akolyth|talk]]) 03:23, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
:<nowiki>File:Scout.png|The Scout from Team Fortress 2|The Scout.</nowiki> As for any templates, a separate parameter would have to be added.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 20:37, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
 
  
:While we appreciate the initiative, adding alt texts manually to images would be an awful lot of work for something that won't hold that much value to us.
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:Easier said than done, it's being worked on but we can't promise anything.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 11:13, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
  
:In terms of accessibility for screen readers, articles generally are well-written and tend to go in-depth about its content. In some cases, image thumbnails have visible text which describe the image.
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== Valve Store ==
  
:Unfortunately, we've had users in the past that wanted to take on big tasks like this one, only to never fully go through with them, which left some inconsistencies or had us clean up after them, so we're sometimes skeptical on the delivery.
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The official Store has been closed down for months now by Valve, and there's no reasonable smidgeon of proof to believe it's coming back any time soon. The Wiki, in many articles, links directly to the Store still, or mentions it, but even tooltips for certain hats will just say they're "not available". This is kind of awkward, and makes the average user waste a click (the horror, I know). And even I get a false hope sometimes that it changed, but it's Valve after all. Should something be done about this, and how? Can there be an automatic disclaimer the Store is gone? Should links be removed? Just let the dead ends sit forever?--[[File:Leaderboard class allclass.png|15px|link=]] [[User:Akolyth|<span style="font-size: 14px; font-family: Trebuchet MS">'''Akolyth'''</span>]] ([[User_talk:Akolyth|talk]]) 02:44, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
  
:If you still believe that this is needed, we could add automatic support for it through the necessary templates, in the same way that Wikipedia does; however, galleries and such would need to be done manually. [[User:Wookipan|<span style="color:#db9c1f">'''Wookipan'''</span>]] <small>([[User_talk:Wookipan|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Wookipan|contribs]])</small> 22:04, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
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:Try to find an archive.org version of it, otherwise just add a tooltip saying it's not available anymore due to store shutdown.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 11:12, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
  
== Staff emergency meeting ==
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== Painted variants with both Styles and separate Classes images, a design proposal ==
[https://steamcommunity.com/groups/OTFWiki/discussions/0/3319736698851342849/ Staff emergency meeting]. — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] 14:16, 10 October 2022 (UTC)<!--
 
Please do NOT reply or edit this section.
 
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== Adding a notice to Talk pages ==
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Hi. So, I have several mockups of things to suggest which I'll be writing it up eventually. For now, I was making changes to the [[Robot Chicken Hat]] page, and was thinking about adding class variants to the paint gallery, as each class changes the hat's design a little (taller combs, different beak designs, etc.). However, if I were to make those paint variants per class, the current way we put styles and classes to the table looks... off, to say the least. At the moment, if I were to make it consistent with the rest of the Wiki, it would look like this: [https://i.imgur.com/gfdAUBL https://i.imgur.com/gfdAUBL]. But, instead, I thought about this mock-up: [https://i.imgur.com/QmQCLsK https://i.imgur.com/QmQCLsK]. Not only this looks more visually appealing, but it also takes a lot less space. The only problem that it may be confusing for cosmetics that separate styles by a group of classes ([[Cotton Head]], [[Brotherhood of Arms]], etc.). So... I thought about just making the class buttons that aren't active a little darker (same thing with the Style name): [https://i.imgur.com/Fiw1zRT https://i.imgur.com/Fiw1zRT]. Here's another example with the Cotton Head: [https://i.imgur.com/ZhkQwGG https://i.imgur.com/ZhkQwGG]. Mouse-hovering the class icons could also show their class names ("Pyro, Medic, Spy" and "Other classes" in the case of Cotton Head) Thoughts? [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 13:11, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
  
[[User:Denied|Denied]] has recently made a suggestion that I agree with. In their words: "Every talk page needs some edit note like THIS IS NOT A PLACE FOR DISCUSSIONS OUTSIDE OF THE ITEM ITSELF. FOR COMMUNITY DISCUSSIONS GO TO THE STEAM FORUMS."
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:I like this proposal, although I think it's not necessary for every page. Only for the ones where the tabs become too much.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 13:15, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
  
While not necessarily with those words or formatting, I do believe adding such a notice could discourage new contributors from adding topics, sometimes creating entirely new talk pages in the process, with questions like "how do i shot bullet?" or statements such as "pootis man is funny" while teaching them the proper place for them. - [[User:BrazilianNut|BrazilianNut]] ([[User talk:BrazilianNut|talk]]) 16:58, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
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== Inconsistency regarding items with one team color, but shows team-colored parts of a player model ==
  
:I'm neutral on this, I'll support it but I also think it's not too large of an issue currently. Also try avoiding using {{tl|Quotation}} on talk pages as it breaks them.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 17:03, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
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Hello. So, when I started adding tabs to the paint variants, and just browsing the Wiki as a whole, I noticed that a couple pages are inconsistent in regards to the unpainted variants. In almost every case of cosmetics that use part of the player model, but only has 1 skin (not team-colored), the team-colors syntax isn't added to the tab, and we only have the UNPAINTED version on the paint variants table (example includes the [[Soldier's Stash]], [[Horrible Horns]] on Spy, and much more), but some other pages still shows the BLU variant of a player model despite the item only having one skin ([[Texas Half-Pants]], [[Millennial Mercenary]]'s Streaming 2Fort style, [[Exquisite Rack]], [[Battle Bob]]'s With Helmet style, [[Bacteria Blocker]]'s Headphones style, etc).
:: I think the more common misuse of talk pages is to use the talk page for talking about the page's subject, but they can both be encompassed in one message. BrazilianNut, are you picturing something like this being on [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]]? [[User:Naleksuh|Naleksuh]] ([[User talk:Naleksuh|talk]]) 20:20, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
 
  
:::No, I'm not, Naleksuh, and that's the misuse I was trying to say, but I admit I failed to convey that thanks to bad examples and maybe some poor wording. - [[User:BrazilianNut|BrazilianNut]] ([[User talk:BrazilianNut|talk]]) 22:20, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
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Some other pages also includes two identical RED and BLU images for the infobox, just because the item has two materials per team, but still uses the same exact texture and values (basically two identical .vmt files). I don't remember what pages has it now, but there are some pages that has that. I did that on [[Decorated Veteran]] since I've heard about doing that in the past before: "even if they look identical, put in two separate uploads". There's also no current way to just show one skin on the infobox (however that's something I'm looking to suggest soon enough on my mega infobox improvements topic).
:::: If you didn't mean that, then what did you mean? I was hoping you would elaborate rather than simply saying no. [[User:Naleksuh|Naleksuh]] ([[User talk:Naleksuh|talk]]) 06:24, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
 
  
:::::An editnotice similar to [[Brain Bucket]] or [[Chicken Kiev]] is what I imagine he means, but on every page starting with Talk:.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 10:57, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
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Because we use the infobox, as well the RED and BLU parts of the paint variants table to show the different Skin Colors of the ITEM, I would say to actually cleaning it up these inconsistencies. So, for instance, on Texas Half-Pants, there wouldn't RED and BLU images for each style, because they look identical on either team, and, there's only two skins on the model (one for the Tan style, the other for the Midnight style [older cosmetics used a different way in handling styles, as opposed to separate models, many old cosmetics would use different skins for styles, and the Item Schema would redirect what skins to use depending on the style chosen]). The colors change on the images right now, because it's the colors of Engi's default pants, but not the actual item model changing colors. Meaning that, the RED / BLU on the infobox would be removed, the BLU_... images would be deleted, and the RED_ images would be moved to the _UNPAINTED.png suffix instead.
  
::::::What GrampaSwood said; I meant a red edit notice, like the ones for those two articles, at the start of Talk pages telling contributors that a Talk page is for discussing the article itself, not for asking questions or making comments about the article's subject (like using a weapon's Talk page to ask how to best utilize it or to comment how they think it should be buffed/nerfed), and that they should use the Steam Forums for such things (maybe providing a link as well).
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Some may argue that, since the team-colored paint can image previews also change the pants colors, that these should stay in, but, I don't agree. These are to show the item's team-colors being affected (both the UNPAINTED versions and the team-colored paint cans), not the player model's team-colors, but let me know what do you think.
  
::::::Apologies for any confusion caused by bad examples or by making my messages too short. - [[User:BrazilianNut|BrazilianNut]] ([[User talk:BrazilianNut|talk]]) 12:17, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
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Items that have 0 changes on team-colors despite having them (same exact .vmt values), I'd also say to get rid of it, as they provide no real information for the reader other than perhaps modders, so they don't need to go all the way of decompiling models to add team-color support, for instance. Some require close inspection however. The [[Mann-Bird of Aberdeen]] looks like to be the case, but the green area is just slightly brighter on BLU. I'd still keep the same colors for Styles and classes (like [[Team Captain]] for Heavy), until a more fully-fledged infobox edit comes along the way that adds support to just 1 skin on the infobox (like this: [https://i.imgur.com/GQP1ou0 https://i.imgur.com/GQP1ou0]). I will still point out many of these on my eventual discussion of infobox changes in another topic. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 13:43, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
  
::::::: That's a tough nut. It might help to tokenize the page titles in the tag, somehow. "This <item's> Discussions are for talking about issues within the <item's> page, not for talking about the <item>." That is not easy to pose or parse. Imagine the translators. You may have mentioned this, but if you go with the tag, it should clearly state to the reader that it has a link to the full explanation of the policy.
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:I would support every page having both team colours.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 13:57, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
::::::: [[User:Mikado282|<span style="font-family: Impact"><font color="db9c1f">''' M I K A D O 282 '''</font></span><span style="font-family: Arial "><font color="00ff00"> <small>⊙</small>⊙⊙⊙⊙<small>⊙ ⊙⊙  ⊙⊙</small></font></span>]] <!-- --
 
--> <small> ([[User:Mikado282/Contact Mikado282|Contact Mikado282 (SM)]]) | ([[Special:Contributions/Mikado282|'''''contribs''''']]) ([[User:Mikado282/Help Wanted!|'''''Help Wanted!''''']]) </small> 13:20, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
 
  
:::::::: {{c|nope}}. It's possible, but the amount of work involved in adding and maintaining it is far greater than simply reverting the edit and messaging the user. — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] 21:26, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
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== Articles for individual environmental hazards ==
  
== Create an exception for an item link from the dictionary ==
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Some of the older environmental hazards have their own articles. Specifically, they are: [[Ghost]], [[Pumpkin bomb]], [[Saw blade]], and [[Train]].
  
Please read the discussion [[Talk:Meet_the_Medic#Requested_move|'''here''']].<br>Does anyone know how to create that kind of exception? [[User:Tiagoquix|Tiagoquix]] ([[User talk:Tiagoquix|talk]]) 19:41, 7 September 2022 (UTC)
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These are some fairly simple hazards: ghost goes "boo", pumpkin bomb goes "boom", blade goes "bzzt", and train goes "''[Train horn noises]''". They all have fairly short articles, and are also covered in the [[Environmental death]] article.
  
== Pages with the fewest revisions - redirects ==
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I propose we change these four into redirects to the Environmental death article, similar to [[Pitfall]].
  
[https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/index.php?title=Special:FewestRevisions&limit=10000&offset=0 Pages with the fewest revisions] (long loading) -- there are many redirects here with names in other languages, such as Spanish and Russian. Are they OK to be in the Wiki or should they be deleted? [[User:Tiagoquix|Tiagoquix]] ([[User talk:Tiagoquix|talk]]) 02:18, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
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As for their Update histories, I have three ideas:
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* Add the section to the Environmental death article and carry them over.
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* Create a separate page for that (similar to the [[Item timeline]] pages).
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* Ignore them (essentially already the case for all the hazards that don't have their own articles).
  
:Unless redirects are actively harmful, there is no reason to remove them.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 09:39, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
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I am ok with [[Skeletons]] and the Halloween bosses having their own articles, however, as they are more elaborate (which is noticeable by simply comparing article sizes).
  
== Item schema updates with blog posts ==
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Opinions? - [[User:BrazilianNut|BrazilianNut]] ([[User talk:BrazilianNut|talk]]) 16:36, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
  
How do we go about updates with blog posts but no actual updates? For example, TF2 was not updated on October 11th 2021 outside of an item schema update and a blog post, but [[October 11, 2021 Patch]] exists. <s>Also the "Patch 2" for [[September 26, 2022 Patch]] even though I'm pretty sure patch 2 was item schema only.</s> Do these count as updates? Should they at least be flagged? [[User:Naleksuh|Naleksuh]] ([[User talk:Naleksuh|talk]]) 03:04, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
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:I think some of these pages can add value, such as the specifics in the hazard infobox. I'd push for more articles rather than less, similar to [[List of game modes]], where each hazard has its own page as well as a short description on the overall page. I would prefer this because it would cut down on the clutter on the Environmental death page, for example the pumpkin bomb section is 5 identical hazards that are just reskinned. It would be better to have this in a gallery on its own page, rather than several entries on that page.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 16:40, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
: Update: Eric Smith confirmed that there were really 2 patches today. Though the point remains about the first one. [[User:Naleksuh|Naleksuh]] ([[User talk:Naleksuh|talk]]) 04:48, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
 
  
:: They are [[Patches]]. Updates and Patches are synonymous. AFAIK, there was no [[TF2_Official_Website#Blog|Blog]] [https://www.teamfortress.com/?tab=blog post] for these Patches. What do you mean tagged?
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:: I believe it is better to keep the pages separate, as putting them all together in one could generate a lot of visual clutter, in addition to having a lot of information for the reader to consume at once. Furthermore, it would be complicated to gather all the update histories on the articles. Essentially, we would be taking separate articles and combining them into one big article, where each section (divided by {{code|<nowiki>== Section title ==</nowiki>}}) would be a "complete" article.<br/>[[User:Tiagoquix|<font color="#1e90ff">Tiagoquix</font>]] ([[User talk:Tiagoquix|<font color="#19c819">talk</font>]]) 18:45, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
::[[User:Mikado282|<span style="font-family: Impact"><font color="db9c1f">''' M I K A D O 282 '''</font></span><span style="font-family: Arial "><font color="00ff00"> <small>⊙</small>⊙⊙⊙⊙<small>⊙ ⊙⊙  ⊙⊙</small></font></span>]] <!-- --
 
--> <small> ([[User:Mikado282/Contact Mikado282|Contact Mikado282 (SM)]]) | ([[Special:Contributions/Mikado282|'''''contribs''''']]) ([[User:Mikado282/Help Wanted!|'''''Help Wanted!''''']]) </small> 00:37, 28 September 2022 (UTC)
 
::: I think you may have misunderstood me. I mean that there was a post announcing an update/patch but the game was not actually updated. What happened was an item schema update, and the change to Corpse Carriers was announced there. There was no hlds email, nor any update to install. [[User:Naleksuh|Naleksuh]] ([[User talk:Naleksuh|talk]]) 18:19, 28 September 2022 (UTC)
 
  
== CSS pages deletion request ==
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== A request ==
  
Since I can't mark them for deletion, could the TF Wiki's staff delete them for me? Thanks in advance.<br>[[:User:Tiagoquix/common.css]] & [[:User:Tiagoquix/vector.css]] [[User:Tiagoquix|Tiagoquix]] ([[User talk:Tiagoquix|talk]]) 22:51, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
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In Polish language we don't capitalise most words like in English language and the way quality items have their quality displayed looks like this: Rocket launcher (vintage). The problem is that in [[Template:Mann-Conomy Nav]] Vintage quality in Polish and Russian is not capitalised and looks weird in the template where everything is capitalised except this one word. Is it possible to add a new entry in the dictionary for this template only, where 'Vintage' is capitalised for these languages? In Polish it's even more confusing, because [[Classic]] and Vintage share the same translation, so it could be shown in the tempalte as 'Vintage quality' (Jakość klasyczna in Polish). [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 10:28, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
  
: I can delete most pages, but I can not delete or edit these. It has high protection that I can't touch.  
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:If it's the very first letter that needs to be capitalised, you can use <nowiki>{{ucfirst:<string>}}</nowiki> to turn the first letter into a capital. For example, <nowiki>{{ucfirst:hello world}}</nowiki> generates {{ucfirst:hello world}}.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 11:15, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
: [[User:Mikado282|<span style="font-family: Impact"><font color="db9c1f">''' M I K A D O 282 '''</font></span><span style="font-family: Arial "><font color="00ff00"> <small>⊙</small>⊙⊙⊙⊙<small>⊙ ⊙⊙  ⊙⊙</small></font></span>]] <!-- --
 
--> <small> ([[User:Mikado282/Contact Mikado282|Contact Mikado282 (SM)]]) | ([[Special:Contributions/Mikado282|'''''contribs''''']]) ([[User:Mikado282/Help Wanted!|'''''Help Wanted!''''']]) </small> 00:55, 28 September 2022 (UTC)
 
  
:: {{c|done}} — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] 11:42, 28 September 2022 (UTC)
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::Could you help me with this? I've changed it in [[Template:Mann-Conomy Nav]] but doesn't seem to capitalise the first letter. [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 10:54, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
  
== Module:Availability ==
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:::Hmmm, yeah seems like the automatic translation templates automatically uncapitalise it. If you really wanted to implement this you'd have to use the {{tl|lang}} template instead.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 13:49, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
  
The winter2016 parameter links redirect to the wrong page. I also [[Module talk:Availability|made a topic]] to add drop-expired. Could someone look at it? Thanks [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 22:38, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
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::::[https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/index.php?title=Template:Mann-Conomy_Nav&diff=3408072&oldid=3388990 I already did it once and...] [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 14:19, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
  
: {{c|done|Fixed}}. Thanks. — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] 17:41, 10 October 2022 (UTC)
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:::::Perhaps leave a hidden comment and use {{tl|lang incomplete}}?<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 14:27, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
  
== contributed-by auto update ==
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::::::I've coppied how it looked oryginally but now it shows as red link 'VintageVintage'. Could you look what's wrong with [https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/index.php?title=Template:Mann-Conomy_Nav&diff=3584139&oldid=3583139 this edit]? Except equals sign. I've fixed it later. [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 13:21, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
  
Can we have some ways to auto update contributed-by for cosmetics for different languages? Lot of times only English get updated and updating all other languages is repetitive and exhausting. Hope there could be a contributed-by dictionary or a bot that auto sync this. --[[User:AlexT|<span style="background:linear-gradient(#D1EEFC, #81F3FD);border:1px #99F3FD solid;color:#007FFF;border-radius:8px">'''Alex'''</span>]][[User talk:AlexT|<span style="color: #FF6600;">'''T'''</span>]] 22:54, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
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{{Outdent|6}}Looks like you forgot to add a vertical bar, which made the link <nowiki>[[VintageVintage]]</nowiki>.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 13:31, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
  
: It would be really helpful to have a dictionary for that, however updating the current pages would be very time consuming.
+
== Mann Manor/Mountain Lab's history ==
: You can force WindBOT to recheck the page, and it should automatically sync the contributed-by parameter. Here is an example: [https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/index.php?title=User%3AWindBOT%2FPageRequests&type=revision&diff=3279324&oldid=3275606 1) input], [https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/index.php?title=Imp%27s_Imprint/pt-br&diff=next&oldid=3279323 2) result]. — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] 14:35, 10 October 2022 (UTC)
 
  
::Hope it can be a scheduled work for all cosmetics page for the bot :/ something like every 2 weeks sync all contributed-by of recent added cosmetics, and every 6 month sync all contributed-by of all cosmetics. --[[User:AlexT|<span style="background:linear-gradient(#D1EEFC, #81F3FD);border:1px #99F3FD solid;color:#007FFF;border-radius:8px">'''Alex'''</span>]][[User talk:AlexT|<span style="color: #FF6600;">'''T'''</span>]] 02:30, 11 October 2022 (UTC)
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I feel maps that we know more detailed information on the history of we should actually have written down so it isn't forgotten, such as for example, Mann Manor/Mountain Lab being an art contest was not the original plan in fact the maps used to have textures before but, that's just what I think. [[User:The American Boot|The American Boot]] ([[User talk:The American Boot|talk]]) 04:34, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
  
== 200k celebration ==
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:If you think this fact is worth and most player don't know, you can try adding it to Trivia section. Here is a more detailed [[Help:Style_guide/Trivia|Trivia guild]].[[User:Profiteer|Profiteer(奸商)the tryhard]] ([[User talk:Profiteer|talk]]) 05:07, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
Hello everyone, this is a reminder to let you all know that we are fast approaching 200,000 registered users.<br>
 
Last milestone which was 100K, happened back in 2019 (3 years ago), this is a good opportunity to give everyone a pat on the back for bringing the wiki to where it is today.<br>
 
At the time of writing, we are at '''{{code|199,535}}''', we can positively estimate that we will reach 200K in the next few days or in the coming weeks.
 
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|<div style="font-family: TF2 Build; font-size: 1em;"><span style="color: #ffffff;">[[File:User_Luno_Logo.png|20px|link=User:Luno|Luno's profile]] '''[[User:Luno|<span style="color:White;">Luno</span> 🎃]]''' [[File:User_Luno_Talk.png|20px|link=User_talk:Luno|Talk with me]] [[File:User_Luno_Unknown.png|20px|link=Special:Contributions/Luno|Luno's contributions]] [[File:User_Luno_France.png|20px|link=File:User_Luno_France.png|French translation team]] <small>16:53, 15 October 2022 (UTC)</small></span></div>
 
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:Maybe we can do something different this time around. Instead of HLMV shots of people's loadouts, why not invite 32 players on an empty server and do screenshots there or something? I dunno. The only problem is that there would be a limit of 32 players. Last year, we had exactly 32 people on the [[:File:100k-groupphoto.png|group photo]]. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 17:35, 15 October 2022 (UTC)
 
: {{Pro}} I think that making some sort of celebration is a wonderful idea, I personally think that doing another HLMV shot is not a bad take. Moreover, one of the downsides of going to an empty server, is that not everyone shares the same time-zones, it could be difficult for everyone to join a server at the same time, in my opinion. [[User:Yossef|<font color="DB9C1F">Yossef</font>]] • [[User talk:Yossef|<font color="DB9C1F">Talk</font>]] 17:49, 15 October 2022 (UTC)
 
::True, maybe someone who is good at SFM could do a SFM poster or something, for variety's sake. I'm not good with SFM. But, we can continue with the HLMV shot. We have more people working on images now, so each one can work on a few loadouts collaboratively. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 17:59, 15 October 2022 (UTC)
 
:::If we can get a group photo with HLMV or SFM done, then maybe we could somehow get 3 celebrations throughout 3 different time zones so that everyone could celebrate on a server or something. It would need some planning obviously, but I think it could work. <br> [[User:Andrew360|<span style="font-family:TF2 Build; color:#038d3a ">Andrew360</span>]] [[File:Edit_icon.png|20px|link=Special:Contributions/Andrew360]] [[File:Taunt Rancho Relaxo.png|25px|link=User_talk:Andrew360]] 18:08, 15 October 2022 (UTC)
 
:::: I remember when 100K hit, I was personally not part of the celebration since I was not made aware it was happening, I'm very surprised to see how soon 200K was reached though.  
 
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|<div style="font-family: TF2 Build; font-size: 1em;"><span style="color: #ffffff;">[[File:User_Luno_Logo.png|20px|link=User:Luno|Luno's profile]] '''[[User:Luno|<span style="color:White;">Luno</span> 🎃]]''' [[File:User_Luno_Talk.png|20px|link=User_talk:Luno|Talk with me]] [[File:User_Luno_Unknown.png|20px|link=Special:Contributions/Luno|Luno's contributions]] [[File:User_Luno_France.png|20px|link=File:User_Luno_France.png|French translation team]] <small>18:16, 15 October 2022 (UTC)</small></span></div>
 
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::::: Ooh, if we're doing another celebration, I definitely want to be a part of it. My loadout's a Wiki Cap, Cuban Bristle Crisis, and the Commissar's Coat, just like last time. I'd like to be holding either my Factory New Top Shelf Minigun or Golden Frying Pan. If we're doing a group shot in a server, I probably won't be around to be on it, but I'd try. — [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png|30px|link=User:ThatHatGuy]] [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Talk.png|30px|link=User talk:ThatHatGuy]] [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Contribs.png|30px|link=Special:Contributions/ThatHatGuy]] 08:41, 17 October 2022 (UTC)
 
::::::I don't know how this was done last celebration, but I made a page for how we could organize HLMV image requests. The page is right [[User:Andrew360/Sandbox|here]], pending means that the user hasn't approved their image yet in case they want a different pose or some small changes. Thoughts? <br> [[User:Andrew360|<span style="font-family:TF2 Build; color:#038d3a ">Andrew360</span>]] [[File:Edit_icon.png|20px|link=Special:Contributions/Andrew360]] [[File:Taunt Rancho Relaxo.png|25px|link=User_talk:Andrew360]] 15:41, 17 October 2022 (UTC)
 
::::::: {{Pro}} I like that format, pretty intuitive and straightforward. Let us know when whoever wants to participates can fill the request table ♥. [[User:Yossef|<font color="DB9C1F">Yossef</font>]] • [[User talk:Yossef|<font color="DB9C1F">Talk</font>]] 19:27, 17 October 2022 (UTC)
 
:::::::: Alright then, I made a new page where all the images and requests will be now. The page is right [[User:Andrew360/200k|here,]] if any other image makers want to complete requests/add images to the image table then go ahead! <br> [[User:Andrew360|<span style="font-family:TF2 Build; color:#038d3a ">Andrew360</span>]] [[File:Edit_icon.png|20px|link=Special:Contributions/Andrew360]] [[File:Taunt Rancho Relaxo.png|25px|link=User_talk:Andrew360]] 21:10, 17 October 2022 (UTC)
 
{{Outdent}}
 
Not to be a party popper, but the majority of our registered users are spam bots. We are, however, approaching [[Special:Stats|70k articles]], which is worth celebrating. — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] 00:07, 18 October 2022 (UTC)
 
:: [[User:Tark]] Where do you get the number of spam bots from? If you can find it automatically, what are CheckUsers doing? Also, "not to be a party popper", but the majority of our articles are the same article over and over in other languages. So there aren't really anywhere near 70k articles. [[User:Naleksuh|Naleksuh]] ([[User talk:Naleksuh|talk]]) 00:16, 18 October 2022 (UTC)
 
:::And then like last time, Gabrielwoj will tell you that it's just for fun, bots are mostly part of TF2 culture anyways, and we could make the cheese wheel chart argument pointing out all the shy users/those that don't know what they're doing/one offs, on the other hand 100k articles sounds like a big celebration, its years off though it seems, but we're getting there.
 
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|<div style="font-family: TF2 Build; font-size: 1em;"><span style="color: #ffffff;">[[File:User_Luno_Logo.png|20px|link=User:Luno|Luno's profile]] '''[[User:Luno|<span style="color:White;">Luno</span> 🎃]]''' [[File:User_Luno_Talk.png|20px|link=User_talk:Luno|Talk with me]] [[File:User_Luno_Unknown.png|20px|link=Special:Contributions/Luno|Luno's contributions]] [[File:User_Luno_France.png|20px|link=File:User_Luno_France.png|French translation team]] <small> 00:20, 18 October 2022 (UTC)</small></span></div>
 
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::::Also, my own loadout image is reserved, I just haven't done yet (pls don't get from my userpage). Just letting image editors know. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 00:57, 18 October 2022 (UTC)
 
  
::: [https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Special:ListUsers?username=&group=&creationSort=1&desc=1&wpsubmit=&wpFormIdentifier=mw-listusers-form&limit=50 Here] is a list of newly-made accounts. They're mostly bots.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 10:12, 18 October 2022 (UTC)
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:I'm not sure where this Trivia came from or if there is any source for. The [[Art Pass Contest]] page states that Robin Walker said they had a map that hadn't been worked on for a while and they didn't have time to do an art pass on it (which means the map just had dev textures).<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 21:34, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
:::: Also, information for image creators: We should use the default lightrot on all of these loadout pictures, so no picture looks too drastically different from the other, in terms of lighting. The default values for lightrot are {{code|(0.000000 180.000000 0.000000)}}. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 12:16, 18 October 2022 (UTC)
 
::::: We [[Special:Statistics|hit]] 200k users (and bots), by the way. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 01:21, 19 October 2022 (UTC)
 
:::::: Cheers to that ! 🥂 Here is to many more years of translating, polishing, and new contributors.
 
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|<div style="font-family: TF2 Build; font-size: 1em;"><span style="color: #ffffff;">[[File:User_Luno_Logo.png|20px|link=User:Luno|Luno's profile]] '''[[User:Luno|<span style="color:White;">Luno</span> 🎃]]''' [[File:User_Luno_Talk.png|20px|link=User_talk:Luno|Talk with me]] [[File:User_Luno_Unknown.png|20px|link=Special:Contributions/Luno|Luno's contributions]] [[File:User_Luno_France.png|20px|link=File:User_Luno_France.png|French translation team]] <small>03:17, 19 October 2022 (UTC)</small></span></div>
 
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::::::: So now that all the image requests are complete, I think we should make a deadline for requests so that we can make the full group photo and make the userbox soon. I was thinking maybe October 24th should be the deadline. As for the in game server celebration idea, I was thinking the 3 times could be 4 AM EST, 10 AM EST, and 6 PM EST, and the day we do this should be on a weekend. Thoughts? <br> [[User:Andrew360|<span style="font-family:TF2 Build; color:#038d3a ">Andrew360</span>]] [[File:Edit_icon.png|20px|link=Special:Contributions/Andrew360]] [[File:Taunt Rancho Relaxo.png|25px|link=User_talk:Andrew360]] 14:42, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
 
{{Outdent}} Sounds nice, would have been nicer to do the end of the month or even the end of Scream Fortress, I feel like there are still a lot of people that are unaware of this little celebration, to me it feels a little like a family gathering rather than a simple number celebration, which is sweet in a way, hopefully mostly everyone was made aware so that they had a chance to hop on.
 
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|<div style="font-family: TF2 Build; font-size: 1em;"><span style="color: #ffffff;">[[File:User_Luno_Logo.png|20px|link=User:Luno|Luno's profile]] '''[[User:Luno|<span style="color:White;">Luno</span> 🎃]]''' [[File:User_Luno_Talk.png|20px|link=User_talk:Luno|Talk with me]] [[File:User_Luno_Unknown.png|20px|link=Special:Contributions/Luno|Luno's contributions]] [[File:User_Luno_France.png|20px|link=File:User_Luno_France.png|French translation team]] <small>21:57, 20 October 2022 (UTC)</small></span></div>
 
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:Looks like one more person has submitted a request, so I'll move the deadline to October 28th now in case more people add requests. <br> [[User:Andrew360|<span style="font-family:TF2 Build; color:#038d3a ">Andrew360</span>]] [[File:Edit_icon.png|20px|link=Special:Contributions/Andrew360]] [[File:Taunt Rancho Relaxo.png|25px|link=User_talk:Andrew360]] 14:36, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
 
::Thoughts on this group photo? Is there anything that should be changed/are there any other last requests? [[User:Andrew360|<span style="font-family:TF2 Build; color:#038d3a ">Andrew360</span>]] [[File:Edit_icon.png|20px|link=Special:Contributions/Andrew360]] [[File:Taunt Rancho Relaxo.png|25px|link=User_talk:Andrew360]] 14:37, 29 October 2022 (UTC)
 
[[File:User Andrew360 200k-groupphoto.png|500px]]
 
:::Some of the characters are bigger than the rest, probably will require resizing some of them (my Scout, for instance, looks the biggest out of the group), while the Pyro looks the smallest. I think some of the classes could be more close to each other like the 100k group image. The Demoman at the right is floating a little, too. I can try adjusting these things if you would like. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 15:47, 29 October 2022 (UTC)
 
:::: Same opinion here, some mercs looks small and/or are spaced apart. But otherwise amazing job on the group image. [[User:Decimate|Decimate]] ([[User talk:Decimate|talk]]) 18:29, 29 October 2022 (UTC)
 
:::::Looks like me (the BLU pyro) and a few other people only have the upper body and shorter than other people. --[[User:AlexT|<span style="background:linear-gradient(#D1EEFC, #81F3FD);border:1px #99F3FD solid;color:#007FFF;border-radius:8px">'''Alex'''</span>]]┋[[User talk:AlexT|<span style="color: #FF6600;">'''T'''</span>]] 20:34, 29 October 2022 (UTC)
 
::::::Alrighty then, I tried to make everyone a bit more closer together and I tried to scale some of the images. If this still isn't good enough, then maybe Woj or someone else could try to make the group photo. <br> [[User:Andrew360|<span style="font-family:TF2 Build; color:#038d3a ">Andrew360</span>]] [[File:Edit_icon.png|20px|link=Special:Contributions/Andrew360]] [[File:Taunt Rancho Relaxo.png|25px|link=User_talk:Andrew360]] 20:08, 30 October 2022 (UTC)
 
:::::::After I'm done with the 3 upcoming paint variants I'm about to upload, I'll make my own version with a different filename (not a replacement). The 2nd version looks a lot better than the first, but I think a few things could be resized, which I'll be doing on my version. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 14:09, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
 
::::::::Here's my version. I made everyone facing right on the right side, and everyone facing left on the left side. The Demoman wielding the Scottish Handshake was made on the middle since he is mostly facing center. Me, Andrew and Luno are around the middle to represent the image creators for the image:<br>
 
::::::::[[File:User Gabrielwoj 200k-groupphoto.png|500px]]
 
:::::::: If this is the preferred version, feel free to rename the file to [[:File:200k-groupphoto.png]] [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 13:12, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
 
{{outdent|8}}Sorry for extending the image border LOL.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 13:17, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
 
:All good bro. Gotta flex that Australium Amby. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 13:22, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
 
:: Amazing work guys, you outdid yourselves ♥ [[User:Yossef|<font color="DB9C1F">Yossef</font>]] • [[User talk:Yossef|<font color="DB9C1F">Talk</font>]] 13:48, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
 
::: Thank. I find it a bit ironic that the 200k group photo has ''less'' people on it than the 100k one. But hey, what can ya' do? Some people come and go, it's still a nice ol' group picture. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 14:21, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
 
::::It looks great! I also agree that I wish more people joined, but it's still good. Maybe at 300k if we still want to do another group photo we'll get more people, though it will probably be a while before 300k. <br> [[User:Andrew360|<span style="font-family:TF2 Build; color:#038d3a ">Andrew360</span>]] [[File:Edit_icon.png|20px|link=Special:Contributions/Andrew360]] [[File:Taunt Rancho Relaxo.png|25px|link=User_talk:Andrew360]] 15:35, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
 
::::: Well done all, looks great! Hope that we can get an even bigger celebration planned for 250k/300k. [[User:Epsilonal|Epsilonal]] ([[User talk:Epsilonal|talk]]) 23:43, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
 
:::::: It looks like everyone agrees with this version of the image, however AlexT told me that the grenades on his image should've been hidden, so I uploaded a new version of his image without grenades. So for the final group photo if you could change AlexT's image to the new version that would be appreciated. Then when the final group photo is uploaded we also need to make a userbox for it. <br> [[User:Andrew360|<span style="font-family:TF2 Build; color:#038d3a ">Andrew360</span>]] [[File:Edit_icon.png|20px|link=Special:Contributions/Andrew360]] [[File:Taunt Rancho Relaxo.png|25px|link=User_talk:Andrew360]] 16:15, 7 November 2022 (UTC)
 
::::::: I updated the image with the latest revision of AlexT's loadout. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 17:00, 7 November 2022 (UTC)
 
:::::::: The Australium Frontier Justice goes across almost all of the Heavy to the right. Can you turn it to face the camera more? It doesn't look like any of the other characters have this problem, looks like it is just that one that is covering up other characters. [[User:Naleksuh|Naleksuh]] ([[User talk:Naleksuh|talk]]) 20:38, 9 November 2022 (UTC)
 
::::::::: That looks fine to me. It's not covering anyone's face, so I don't see the problem, and the Heavy in question has the cosmetics being fully visible. The 100k picture had some instances of that, too. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 21:31, 9 November 2022 (UTC)
 
:::::::::: I didn't see the 100K picture, but it won't be a big deal if people think it looks better this way. [[User:Naleksuh|Naleksuh]] ([[User talk:Naleksuh|talk]]) 22:42, 9 November 2022 (UTC)
 
::::::::::: I made the userbox. It's here: [[Template:User 200k registered|<nowiki>{{User 200k registered}}</nowiki>]]. It's a little larger in height than the 100k one, but I think it looks good. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 15:06, 10 November 2022 (UTC)
 
:::::::::::: Thank you everyone that participated; the picture and template are amazing. Good job <3 [[User:Yossef|<font color="DB9C1F">Yossef</font>]] • [[User talk:Yossef|<font color="DB9C1F">Talk</font>]] 18:54, 10 November 2022 (UTC)
 
{{outdent|12}}Thanks everyone! The group photos looks great! and Thanks Andrew360 for making my portrait 3 times :D. --[[User:AlexT|<span style="background:linear-gradient(#D1EEFC, #81F3FD);border:1px #99F3FD solid;color:#007FFF;border-radius:8px">'''Alex'''</span>]]┋[[User talk:AlexT|<span style="color: #FF6600;">'''T'''</span>]]
 
  
== Community announcers with a large amount of response ==
+
== Weapon articles mentioning taunts that aren't kill taunts ==
  
So the {{tl|Audio Nav}} states that community announcers should be on the map page rather than having their own page. However, [[Davy Jones]] has its own responses page. I suggest that for announcers with large amount of voice lines, such as the [[Crasher]] voice lines and the [[Bread Space]] voice lines, they should get their own page. This would reduce the amount of clutter on the page. I suggest it would have to be judged on a case-by-case basis. For example, the Crasher announcers have 100+ voice lines, but the Toastmaster only has 10.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 21:46, 29 October 2022 (UTC)
+
I've noticed a few articles for weapons mentioning that those weapons have a unique taunt that is not a kill taunt, or a variation of the default weapon for that slot (which is still not a kill taunt). These are the [[Lollichop]], which mentions it has a unique taunt based on a scene from Meet the Pyro, and the [[Third Degree]] and [[Neon Annihilator]], which mention the added guitar sounds, respectively. In comparison, the [[Cow Mangler 5000]], [[Scottish Resistance]], and [[Ullapool Caber]], which also have unique taunts, do not mention them since they're not kill taunts, and the [[Vita-Saw]], which has has a variation of the default taunt, does not mention said variation.
:{{c|+|Agreed}} · [[User:Ashe|Ashe]] ([[User talk:Ashe|talk]]) 21:54, 29 October 2022 (UTC)
 
  
:{{Pro}} I agree with that statement. However, for consistency sake, I think that perhaps making an additional “category” can be created for announcers with few voice lines, in the same Nav. This category can be called something around “Minor Announcers”.
+
I think we should remove these notes from the Lollichop, Third Degree, and Neon Annihilator, as they are already all noted in the Pyro taunts page.
:[[User:Yossef|<font color="DB9C1F">Yossef</font>]] • [[User talk:Yossef|<font color="DB9C1F">Talk</font>]] 21:59, 29 October 2022 (UTC)
 
  
::How about a "Community announcers" page instead of one page for every announcer with lots of lines? - [[User:BrazilianNut|BrazilianNut]] ([[User talk:BrazilianNut|talk]]) 22:28, 29 October 2022 (UTC)
+
Speaking of the [[Pyro taunts]] page, I think we can move the "as in Meet the Pyro" comment from the Lollichop's description to a new Trivia section and add that Execution is also based in a Meet the Pyro scene (which is not mentioned). - [[User:BrazilianNut|BrazilianNut]] ([[User talk:BrazilianNut|talk]]) 16:45, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
  
:::Could also work, I'm in favour of either.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 22:48, 29 October 2022 (UTC)
+
:I think variants on an existing taunt should be mentioned, such as different sounds (such as the Third Degree/Neon Annihilator adding guitar sounds and the Vita-Saw having different melodies being played), but the non-kill taunt shouldn't be mentioned (no note about the Lollichop taunt. Although seeing as it's unique to that weapon, I think the Trivia can stay).<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 17:14, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
::::Wait, I misread your idea Swood. I would prefer @BrasilianNut 's idea, because of [[Halloween Boss voice responses]] · [[User:Ashe|Ashe]] ([[User talk:Ashe|talk]]) 23:26, 29 October 2022 (UTC)
 
  
:::::{{Pro}} I like BrazilianNut's idea better. Furthermore, this will help us in the future when more possible announcers are added to the game. [[User:Yossef|<font color="DB9C1F">Yossef</font>]] • [[User talk:Yossef|<font color="DB9C1F">Talk</font>]] 09:40, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
+
== Main menu Smissmas 2023 header localization ==
  
I would agree with Gramps on his first post, there should be a subpage for announcers who only have basic lines for like KoTH and Control Point maps. But, all of the announcer voices are on either Payload maps or that one Player Destruction map Farmageddon. However Braziliannut's idea is probably the best way to go about doing this, the page is going to be absolutely massive as a result of mixing all of them in there at once though.[[User:ShadowMan44|ShadowMan44]] ([[User talk:ShadowMan44|talk]]) 23:27, 30 October 2022 (UTC)
+
'Smissmas 2023' is localized but 'December 7 - January 7' is not. Is it possible to localize it too? [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 10:29, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
  
: {{Con}} In case you haven't done this yet. Honestly, I don't see the point. IMO, list of responses specific to a map should be on the map's page. Clutter could be controlled by collapsing the section. Just on opinion.  A reason that Davey Jones should have been worked into tbe map's page is that his cue lines are integral to the map's mechanics, so, the list should be integral to the page. Astronaut will probably only ever have unintelligible responses on one map.
+
:See [[Template:Dictionary/common_strings#.5BMain_Page.5D_Smissmas_2023|Dictionary common strings]].<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 13:37, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
: [[User:Mikado282|<span style="font-family: Impact"><font color="38F3AB">''' M I K A D O 282 '''</font></span><span style="font-family: Arial "><font color="70B04A">''' <small>🎃</small>🎃🎃🎃🎃<small>🎃  🎃🎃  🎃🎃</small>  '''</font></span>]] </small> <!-- --
 
--> <small> ([[User:Mikado282/Contact Mikado282|Contact Mikado282 (SM)]]) | ([[Special:Contributions/Mikado282|'''''contribs''''']]) ([[User:Mikado282/Help Wanted!|'''''Help Wanted!''''']]) </small> 02:00, 10 November 2022 (UTC)
 
  
:: {{Pro}} +1 for "Community announcers page" — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] 01:42, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
+
:: Thanks. [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 14:19, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
  
== Twinkle in TF2wiki? ==
+
== Link of the wiki team fortress energie drink don't work ==
  
I wonder if we can import some practical tools like Twinkle to maintain a page? It can also help us to combat vandalism.(And do a lot of stuffs...)----[[File:1_Domination.png]] [[User:BEUFK|BEUFK]]-[[Special:Contributions/BEUFK|Contributions]]-[[User_talk:BEUFK|Talk]] 12:52, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
+
[[https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Team_Fortress_Wiki:Wiki_Birthday#Official.E2.84.A2_Team_Fortress_Energy_Drink]] you see this page on the wiki contain a team fortress wiki energie drink with a link for have it but it don't work and is not secure, can someone help me ? <small>— ''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' '''[[User:Nonolemage|Nonolemage]]''' ([[User talk:Nonolemage|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Nonolemage|contribs]]) 2023-12-21, 13:46 UTC</small>
  
:Looking through some of its functionality, it seems like it doesn't offer much useful functionality for users here. Mods/editors here are active enough to be able to catch vandalism quite quickly anyway and its other features seem to be just buttons to quickly add {{tl|delete}} or open up a discussion for deletion (which is already very easy).<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 13:07, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
+
:Please sign your messages using <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>.
 +
:The website appears to be down and no archive of it exists, so unless someone here happens to have a copy we can't do much.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 13:46, 21 December 2023 (UTC)
  
:: Excellent idea, but we don't have the [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Gadgets|Gadgets]] extension enabled :c — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] 15:16, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
+
== Multiple Suggestions related to Infobox, etc ==
  
== Any guide on how to create good User: page? ==
+
Hi. I have been wanting to write this in the past, but, well, finally here it is. I have a couple suggestions about things related to infobox, and other things to make the design of the Wiki flow better on certain articles. I will be posting here as it covers a multitude of topics, as opposed to posting each one of them on their respective templates. When adding "Support" and "Not Support" on your responses, please make sure to add the number (and letter) behind to specify what you are supporting (or not supporting) as a change (like: "1-c"). With that said, let's get going:
  
So I was wandering around the wiki and noticed how great some User: pages look and I just can't create a good one. Is there any guides for it?
+
<hr>
[[User:Yaroslav|Yaroslav]] ([[User talk:Yaroslav|talk]]) 15:55, 30 November 2022 (UTC)
 
:You can check user pages of other users and use a bit of everything you like on your page, or if you know css you can create something more complex. Or ''shamelessly copy someone's else page :)))''. [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 18:19, 30 November 2022 (UTC)
 
:Personally, it may require some CSS skills...<nowiki>----</nowiki> [[File:1_Domination.png]] [[User:BEUFK|BEUFK]]-[[Special:Contributions/BEUFK|Contributions]]-[[User_talk:BEUFK|Talk]] 02:27, 1 December 2022 (UTC)
 
:Slap some plain text up and claim you'll eventually make it better :) [[User:Jh34ghu43gu|Jh34ghu43gu]] ([[User talk:Jh34ghu43gu|talk]]) 04:22, 1 December 2022 (UTC)
 
  
 +
1) Implement a way on the {{code|Item infobox}} template where if a style or class has only one team-color compared to other styles with team-colors, include an icon in the middle of both teams. For instance:
  
You should learn some CSS, and Since this wiki is based on MediaWiki, you can use Templates, User boxes, etc. Just surf on some user pages and if you like it, '''take some code from it''' (if allowed to).
+
a) The Heavy variant of the [[Team Captain]] only has one color, but the page right now includes a duplicate of the RED variant as a workaround. What I suggest is doing this: [https://i.imgur.com/YgQHk5z https://i.imgur.com/YgQHk5z]. Make the Heavy variant only one file, and center it. It should be pretty clear that because of the image is in the middle, is that it looks like that on both teams.
  
''You need to make unique'', '''something you would like to see all day'''! -- https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Category:Templates -- And the [[Team_Fortress_Wiki:User_info_boxes|User info Boxes]]
+
b) For items with styles that only has one color (not team-colored), do the same thing as well. In the example of [[Close Quarters Cover]], include the "Alert" style on the infobox in the middle of the "RED" and "BLU" sections of the infobox, something like this: [https://i.imgur.com/lARBQME https://i.imgur.com/lARBQME].
''Remember not editing anything that is not yours'', Have fun in your journey.
 
  
+
c) For items that are not team-colored, but have class-specific variants, include a new part colored in grey called "Both Teams", and include each image on the middle as well. For example, the [[Dead Little Buddy]] have 3 model variants, one for Pyro, one for Demoman, and the other for the remaining classes. The idea is this: [https://i.imgur.com/xPD9PMO https://i.imgur.com/xPD9PMO].
[[User:Mxwgn|maxwel]] ([[User talk:Mxwgn|talk]]) 01:40, 22 January 2023 (UTC)
 
  
== Russian wiki's cosmetic items "Update list" is done incorrectly? ==
+
d) Although I do not have a mock-up right now, I thought of also doing the same as above for items that has only one color. So, for instance, the [[Jumper's Jeepcap]] would have a "Both Teams" section, and it would include the "UNPAINTED" variant on the center. Items with styles with just one color, like [[Mustachioed Mann]], would be similar to Dead Little Buddy, including each style on the infobox, alongside their names. Items like [[Carl]] that has no styles, but is neutral-colored, would also have the "Both Teams" part.
  
Before I start, there is an example:
+
<hr>
:
 
(English) The '''Glengarry Bonnet''' was added to the game. (Item name is listed. It's '''Glengarry Bonnet''').
 
:
 
(Portuguese) A '''Boina de Glengarry''' foi adicionada ao jogo. (Item name is listed. It's '''Boina de Glengarry''').
 
:
 
(Russian) Предмет был добавлен в игру. ('''Item name is not listed'''). It should be '''Гленгарри была добавлена в игру''' (Item name is listed. It's''' Гленгарри''').
 
:
 
'''''So almost every Russian cosmetic page lacks name of a cosmetic item in update list.'''''
 
:
 
Should it be fixed or anything?
 
:
 
I changed some cosmetic pages. (It doesn't only focus on update list, so if you going to revert it back please only revert that). I think it would take a week to "fix" it for every cosmetics listed on Cosmetics page.
 
:
 
'''Here is more examples''':
 
:
 
(English) Added a community-contributed description for the '''Texas Ten Gallon'''. (Item name is listed. It's '''Texas Ten Gallon''').
 
:
 
(Portuguese) Adicionada uma descrição contribuída pela comunidade aos '''Dez-Galões do Texas'''. (Item name is listed. It's '''Dez-Galões do Texas''').
 
:
 
(Russian) Добавлено описание от сообщества. ('''Item name is not listed'''). It should be Добавлено описание от сообщества для '''Большой техасской шляпы''' (Item name is listed. It's '''Большая техасская шляпа''').
 
:
 
(English) The '''Whoopee Cap''' can now be uncrated with Unusual quality. (Item name is listed. It's '''Whoopee Cap''').
 
:
 
(Español) La '''Corona de Yupi''' ahora puede ser obtenida en aspecto Inusual. (Item name is listed. It's '''Corona de Yupi''').
 
:
 
(Russian) Теперь может быть необычного типа. ('''Item name is not listed'''). It should be Молодежная корона теперь может быть необычного типа. (Item name is listed. It's '''Молодежная корона''').
 
:
 
  
[[User:Yaroslav|Yaroslav]] ([[User talk:Yaroslav|talk]]) 19:58, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
+
2) Get rid of the current "2D" images of Weapons, and use "Item icons" instead. The 2D weapon images are not consistent throughout the Wiki. They have different lighting, different angles, and so on. What I suggest is doing something similar to another Wiki I also contributed (one related to a TF2 sourcemod): [https://i.imgur.com/vbvPbGP https://i.imgur.com/vbvPbGP]. This looks extremely clean, and every page would have in this angle. The 2D image only includes the RED variant, just like we use RED classes on our cosmetic previews.
  
 +
<hr>
  
:I wouldn't say they are ''incorrect''; I would say they use a different format. I have seen articles that use "'''This item''' was added to the game" instead of "'''[Item]''' was/were added to the game" and articles that use "Updated the description" instead of "Updated the description '''for [Item]'''."
+
3) Add the "RED" and "BLU" sections on the infobox for Weapon pages, even if the 3D image allows you to switch between teams. Right now, the RED variant is used as the 2D image (for team-colored weapons), while the 2D BLU variant awkwardly sits on the Gallery section. My suggestion would be this: [https://i.imgur.com/dM9z7Oo https://i.imgur.com/dM9z7Oo]
  
:While the update history is ''mostly'' 1:1 with the official patch notes, there are instances of differences between them, such as new items being part of a case ("'''[Item] was added to the game'''" in the update history versus "'''Added the [Case]''' / '''Contains [#] new community-created cosmetic items'''" in the patch notes) or a note that mentions different items ("Updated models/materials for '''[Item]'''" in the update history versus "Updated models/materials for '''[Item] and [Other Item]'''" in the patch notes).
+
<hr>
  
:I would say that, as long as the wording is left as close to the original as possible, it's fine. What should ''not'' be done is, for example, having the update history read "'''Changed''' the description" when the patch note reads "'''Updated''' the description." - [[User:BrazilianNut|BrazilianNut]] ([[User talk:BrazilianNut|talk]]) 22:03, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
+
4) For cosmetic pages that has styles alongside class changes on the Painted Variants table, include additional buttons that include class icons. The idea is to remove clutter on pages with a lot of tabs to choose from (see [https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/index.php?title=Boarder%27s_Beanie&oldid=3594086 this page]). In technical terms, the style buttons would be responsible to change the "style" part of the filename, while the class buttons would change the class part of the filename. If the first class is chosen, then the code needs to get rid of the class part of the filename, as the first class is always the default: [https://i.imgur.com/QmQCLsK https://i.imgur.com/QmQCLsK]
  
== Patch notes references ==
+
a) Additionally, text could be placed on each row, one for "Style:", and the other for "Class:" for the second row, just so it's a little more intuitive and understandable for everyone.
  
Should we use <code><nowiki>== References ==</nowiki></code>, or <code><nowiki>=== References ===</nowiki></code>? [[User:Tiagoquix|Tiagoquix]] ([[User talk:Tiagoquix|talk]]) 01:32, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
+
<hr>
  
: I think <code><nowiki>== References ==</nowiki></code> is the correct one but there are some patch pages with <code><nowiki>=== References ===</nowiki></code>. [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 13:42, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
+
5) Include "infobox images" for separate styles, and add buttons that let you change it. The idea is to include identical images (with identical classes and facial flexing), with the only thing changing the model. For example, [[Main Cast]] would look like this: [https://imgur.com/a/OmTIYVs https://imgur.com/a/OmTIYVs].
  
:: Yeah, probably <code><nowiki>== References ==</nowiki></code> is the one we should use. We could add a global [[User:WindBOT/Filters|filter]], I think. [[User:Tiagoquix|Tiagoquix]] ([[User talk:Tiagoquix|talk]]) 14:35, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
+
<hr>
  
::: {{info}} There is an inconsistency in the patch notes in this regard. In my opinion, I prefer keeping it the same as the other articles, that means using this {{code|<nowiki>== References ==</nowiki>}}. [[User:Yossef|<font color="DB9C1F">Yossef</font>]] • [[User talk:Yossef|<font color="DB9C1F">Talk</font>]] 15:01, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
+
6) Include more sections on the Gallery for items with more than one Style. In the past, the [[Robot Chicken Hat]] page did include all 9 classes on the Gallery section, with 2 separate sections, one with the "Beak" style, and the other with "Beakless" style. It would follow the same rule as "5)", with both images looking identical facial-flex and pose-wise. Some pages like [[Dead of Night]] wouldn't include all classes on each section. Classes with lack of grenades wouldn't be there.
  
:::: {{pro}} '''+1''' for <code><nowiki>== References ==</nowiki></code>. - [[User:BrazilianNut|BrazilianNut]] ([[User talk:BrazilianNut|talk]]) 15:12, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
+
'''Edit:''' Some users asked for an example, so, when I talked about the Robot Chicken Hat, it originally [https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/index.php?title=Robot_Chicken_Hat&oldid=1679218 looked like this]. The images don't exist anymore, but you can still see how it looked like. When I wrote the suggestion, I thought something about that (though it could have been changed a little, like include an "Other" title for the remaining images that aren't related to the class images), but, after Swood's suggestion, I'd say that using Tabs would be more ideal, something akin to how we do on the Tournament Medal pages.
  
:::: {{c|Agree}} On a personal note, the "References" is certainly as important as the other parts of an article.--<nowiki>----</nowiki>[[File:Killicon {{#if:backstab|{{lc:backstab}}|NONE}}.png]][[User:BEUFK|BEUFK]]-[[Special:Contributions/BEUFK|Contributions]]-[[User_talk:BEUFK|Talk]] 12:28, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
+
I did an example on my 2nd Sandbox page. I thought something about this: [https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/index.php?title=User:Gabrielwoj/Sandbox2&oldid=3598538 https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/index.php?title=User:Gabrielwoj/Sandbox2&oldid=3598538] (note that a couple images, namely the infobox team-colors, and paint cans, does not show up properly due to the page's name being different, if this were to be pasted onto the actual page, it would show just as fine). I decided to not make the Tabs centered as regular cosmetic pages are usually not centered, unlike Tournament Medals / Community Medal ones. I also decided to make the gallery width "485px", so it shows 3 images per row, and looks pretty nice and cool with whatever's below that does not require a Tabs section.
  
::::<nowiki> == References ==</nowiki> should be used.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 00:21, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
+
<hr>
  
== User subpages (drafts/templates/unrelated content,etc...) ==
+
7) Lastly. Items that include noticeable team-color differences could also get "Single Color" paint can previews on both teams, even if the paint look identical on the area that is paintable. When Paints were first introduced, they were mostly applied to cosmetics that used the same texture on either team. Now, nowadays, we have cosmetics that include team-colored parts that are not paintable, alongside other parts that are. So, for instance, [[Brawling Buccaneer]] would have its Painted variants table from <nowiki>{{Painted variants}}</nowiki> to <nowiki>{{Painted variants full}}</nowiki>, and single color paint can previews for the BLU team would be made, to show how the paint looks like, and despite being painted in the same area, the rest of the item is in another color. Readers might want to know how an item looks on the BLU team. This would take a long time too make for the entirety of the Wiki, and would be a project that would require remaking some paint variants if they do not have Rotation values saved, or if there's another issue that doesn't make them 1:1, but I think it would look good, and useful as well.
  
Hello, there were several user files deleted in the last months, mostly unused for more than 5 to 10 years. There are also some user subpages that contain all kinds of templates, some being an old copy from the mainspace, something not even related, own content, or simply abandoned/unused for years (also in main categories, like [[:Category:Templates that use translation switching]]). I think there should be a Policy subpage with [[w:Wikipedia:User pages#Content copied from mainspace|this information]] (see sections below) on the Wiki. Some examples [https://pastebin.com/UXfxwD7y here] [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 17:26, 30 January 2023 (UTC)
+
<hr>
:I dont want to make enemies here or something, but [[User:EtherealT|this]] userpage... [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 20:28, 30 January 2023 (UTC)
 
  
::I don't see much wrong with this if I'm honest. If it's not in mainspace category, there's nothing wrong with it.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 20:35, 30 January 2023 (UTC)
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8) For items that has several styles / classes on the infobox (such as [[Manndatory Attire]], [[Beaten and Bruised]] and [[Boarder's Beanie‎]]), make the Infobox template show less of them by default, and include a button with a caption "↓ Show remaining ↓". If possible, make the last one have a "fade" effect, so it's perfectly clear what the button is about. My idea was to include at least 10 of these sections, then fade (because if it reaches 10 of these, it means there's more than one Style per class, where other pages would include 9 of these per class, though, it could be shortened if needed, but personally I would go with 10 sections before the button and fade shows up). It would look like this: [https://i.imgur.com/jh6geu6 https://i.imgur.com/jh6geu6]
  
::: There should be at least a section like Wikipedia has... Unused files get deleted for [[Team Fortress Wiki:Policies#Deletion|being unused]], the same should apply at least (in my opinion) to old user page templates (like the ones I provided, which are just copies of mainspace or similar) and these cases where the user is using the Wiki to "host" their images and content. Of course this is just my opinion and as I said there should be official notes regarding this. [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 21:32, 30 January 2023 (UTC)
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<hr>
  
::::A section like this can be created, however, considering that users are essentially allowed to do anything on their user space (such as Mikado hosting images of things he finds relevant to TF2 in real life, or me having a list of Strange weapons I don't own yet) as long as it's not something such as spam, I'm not sure it will be a very big section.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 21:38, 30 January 2023 (UTC)
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'''Edit: ''' 9) Regarding the Styles section. If we include Styles on the infobox, even for items that look the same on either team, is it really necessary to include the "Styles" section on the page, alongside the table, if everything would be on the Infobox? It seems redundant to keep both of them, but, I'd only get rid of the Styles section after everything is added to the infobox, including the single-color Styles on it. Additionally, certain pages that has Styles that change between classes are a little confusing at the moment. [[Manndatory Attire]] has only Scout's styles being demonstrated on the table, despite each class changing the visuals.
::::: Maybe a "See also" link to the Wikipedia article below User content. [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 16:30, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
 
  
== "Styles" should come before "Painted variants" in articles about cosmetics ==
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a) Originally I was going to suggest a class-switcher button, similar to the "4)", but, if "1)" is implemented, I don't see any reason to keep the Styles section. Please let me know if you think there should be either: "An arrange of buttons that lets you change classes on the Styles table" or "Getting rid of the Styles section entirely as it would be redundant with all the styles on the infobox once the "1)" suggestion is implemented.
  
I don't think it makes sense to show the painted variants with the different styles of the item first and then show the actual unpainted styles in a later section.<br>For example: [[Nine-Pipe_Problem#Painted_variants]] and [[Nine-Pipe_Problem#Styles]]. [[User:Tiagoquix|Tiagoquix]] ([[User talk:Tiagoquix|talk]]) 13:31, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
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b) The only problem that getting rid of the Styles section would be problematic for items that has barely any difference unpainted, but has more notable differences when paintable. Items like [[Onimann]] mostly change its visuals when painted between styles, and if there's no section for it. However, the painted variants table, alongside the main summary on the top of the page, would both visually show the difference, as well would explain in text what each style does in terms of paint.
: Its fine in my opinion, doesnt need to be changed . [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 16:01, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
 
  
== Old and no longer used account deletion request ==
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<hr>
  
Hello. There is this old account of mine that I do not use anymore. Could the TF Wiki staff delete it, please?<br>'''The account:''' [[User:Perk]] | [[User talk:Perk]]<br>The Wiki does not state it is not registered, therefore, it is.<br>Thanks in advance. [[User:Tiagoquix|Tiagoquix]] ([[User talk:Tiagoquix|talk]]) 09:37, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
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Please let me know your thoughts below. Notice that I'm not sure if I would be able to implement some of these suggestions, specially the ones for the "Item infobox" template. If there's enough support, I'd appreciate anyone who could implement suggested changes / additions. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 21:13, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
  
: [[Help:Account deletion|Here]], though it doesn't seem to be possible to delete it entirely. [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 16:27, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
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:1. I think that section should be dedicated to showing off the team colours rather than different styles for different classes. If a cosmetic looks different on different classes I would prefer a different box for it similar to the "Styles" section.
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:2/3. That's fine by me, though I would also want to add a second button to it for the BLU variant rather than stuffing it in the Gallery.
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:4/5. I like this.
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:6. I like this, although I would suggest we use the {{tl|Tabs}} template for it.
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:7. I like this too, but it would require a ton of work and I'm not sure we'd be able to make it through.
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:8. I'm not sure that I'm a fan of collapsing a bunch of them. I would prefer having them sorted by class instead similar to {{tl|Tabs}}.
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:9. See answer on 1.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 21:59, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
  
:: Thanks! [[User:Tiagoquix|Tiagoquix]] ([[User talk:Tiagoquix|talk]]) 16:52, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
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::1 {{c|+|Agree}} - All of these changes look very nice, I don't have anything to say about them.
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::2 / 3 {{c|?|Not sure / changes}} - Would the change to using weapon icons include BLU weapon icons as well? If it does, I would rather have the 2D BLU image in the main infobox when you click on BLU and then switch to the 2D image instead of it being below the main image.
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::4 {{c|+|Agree}} - This also looks nice.
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::5 {{c|-|Disagree}} - I don't know how I feel about this, I feel like the painted variants sorta already accomplish the goal of knowing what the cosmetic would look like with the different styles. It would also take a lot of work to recreate a lot of infobox images just for this.
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::6 {{c|-|Disagree}} - I have the same thoughts about this as 5, it would take a lot of work to redo a bunch of galleries when the styes / painted variants section already get the job done.
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::7 {{c|+|Sorta Agree}} - This would look nice, however it would again take a lot of work to get done.
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::8 {{c|+|Agree / changes}} - I like the idea, though I agree with what Swood said with that it would look better if it was just in tabs instead.
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::9 {{c|?|Not sure}} - I sort of agree with the idea of removing the styles section, but I also do like how there's a sort of simplified section for seeing all of the styles instead of it only being part of the infobox and painted variants.
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::[[User:Andrew360|<span style="font-family:TF2 Build; color:#038d3a ">Andrew360</span>]] [[File:Edit_icon.png|20px|link=Special:Contributions/Andrew360]] [[File:Speech typing.png|25px|link=User_talk:Andrew360]] [[File:Photo Badge Decal Example.png|15px|link=https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Special:ListFiles?limit=25&user=Andrew360&ilshowall=0]] 03:27, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
  
:It's also required for you to prove the account is yours before it's deleted through e-mail.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 17:04, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
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:::1 {{c|-|Disagree}} - Same reason with Swood, I think the style section should do the job.
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:::2 {{c|+|Agree}} - Good idea!
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:::3 {{c|+|Sorta Agree}} - Instead of taking space in infobox, Why don't we use the same button used on 3D images?
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:::4 {{c|+|Agree}} - Yes.
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:::5 {{c|+|Agree}} - Looks nice, but considered what Andrew says we might not getting those done in recent.
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:::6 {{c|+|Agree}} - We are gonna do a lot of work then I guess.
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:::7 {{c|+|Agree}} - Same with Andrew360
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:::8 {{c|?|Not sure}} - Looks good, though yeah, why not use {{tl|Tabs}}?
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:::9 {{c|?|Disagree.. or Sorta Agree}} - If I have to choose one from infobox and style section, I would take style section. In my opinion the infoboxs shouldn't be too long and contain too much information, comparing to a small space on the right side of the page, I think the style section can display the information better. If 8 gets passed then I'm fine with it too. (I just don't want to see infobox gets longer than the page itself.)
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:::[[User:Profiteer|Profiteer(奸商)the tryhard]] ([[User talk:Profiteer|talk]]) 06:16, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
  
:: Unfortunately, I cannot prove it. That account does not have any e-mail linked to it (I know it doesn't because the "forgot password" page tells if a specific username has an e-mail linked to it or not). The only proof I can provide is that I used to have similar usernames to "Perk" before "Tiagoquix": [[User:Perkzitos]] and [[User:P3rkzitos]]. [[User:Tiagoquix|Tiagoquix]] ([[User talk:Tiagoquix|talk]]) 03:06, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
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::::1 {{c|+|Sorta Agree}} - Eh, doesn't matter to me either way.
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::::2 {{c|?|Not sure}} - I wanna see how it would look first.  
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::::3 {{c|+|Agree}} - I was kinda the one to start the whole "shoving the blue variant in the gallery" and have always wondered why there wasn't a color toggle for the 2D variants.
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::::4 {{c|+|Strongly agree}} - I wish it was like this since the beginning!
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::::5 {{c|?|Not sure}} - I like the idea, but it will take a '''lot''' of work updating all the pages and such with the change.
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::::6 {{c|?|Not sure}} - Same answer as 5.
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::::7 {{c|+|Agree}} - I'm only saying yes because we'll only have to edit the templates which are used across all translation pages.
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::::8 {{c|-|Somewhat disagree}} - There aren't very many items that have loads of different styles like this, I think I'd wait until we get something like a shirt or coat that includes a load of different styles (with team variants).
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::::9 {{c|-|Strongly disagree}} - Yeah it is necessary to have a styles section, because they mostly show examples of what they look like on the character wearing it. I know that the infobox has styles too, but they're only the raw models.
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::::[[User:ShadowMan44|ShadowMan44]] ([[User talk:ShadowMan44|talk]]) 01:52, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
  
::: Since the account has no edits, a generic username, and you cannot prove ownership, we unfortunately cannot process this request. We apologize for the inconvenience. — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] 17:14, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
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:::::So, after some user's responses, I'd like to mention a couple things. In regards to most of "2)" and "3)" responses, here's something I didn't mention. There would be a slight problem for items that are not team-colored if we just implemented a RED and BLU image switcher. The idea of using "Item icons" with the RED variant / neutral-color variant, would that it would make everything consistent and nice looking, While "RED" and "BLU" 2D images are usually very consistent too, the current "2D" images used on weapon pages are all over the place. Using the "Item icon" in conjunction with the RED and BLU team-colors means we could use already existing images on the Wiki, too. Not that I would have a problem if new images had to be created for the Neutral-Colored weapons, but, I still think that using the Item icons would highly benefit here, since how nice they look on weapons.
  
:::: No problem! I appreciate your willingness. [[User:Tiagoquix|Tiagoquix]] ([[User talk:Tiagoquix|talk]]) 20:04, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
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:::::However, if we go with a RED and BLU switcher, what we could perhaps do is team-colored Item icons, yeah that would be awesome. Not only that, but we also have Item icons for Australiums, and, I even made Australium Festivized icons for TF2B a while ago, that is only used there and not on the Wiki, at the moment.
  
== Item infoboxes (Closed)==
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:::::GrampaSwood 6) Yeah, I didn't think of this, but using Tabs on the Gallery would be pretty good, something we already do in Tournament Medal pages, actually.
  
Hello, with help from Tark, I pushed the changes from the sandbox page. (Last edit: {{tlx|Item infobox}}). I already started by creating the category for Crafting items which should be completed, and the idea is to use <nowiki>{{Item infobox/item name}}</nowiki>, preventing outdated info and template "creation" in every language page (see example [https://wiki.tf/d/3386817 here]). Cosmetic items and weapons support is not fully tested yet so please don't create the pages for them. What do you think of this? Thanks. [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 16:19, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
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:::::GrampaSwood, Andrew360, Profiteer 7) While I can't promise I will be on the Wiki forever, and, with my statement on my userpage being correct (that I won't be as active in 2024), making BLU team-colored variants on "Standalone" models is a faster process than when making when loaded as a "weapon" (e.g.: Cosmetic loaded on a player model). The reason I did all the [[Boarder's Beanie]] paint variants is solely because it's a standalone model, I was able to generate the paint variants very quickly (and in high quality and proper colors). I can still do every single style and class on BLU as well, for the Single Color paint variants, for the Beanies, I just haven't done since we are still discussing this.
: You may notice the use of <nowiki><includeonly></nowiki> which is because of red links (backpack image/styles/name), they can be avoided with "custom-icon" and "name" but I'm not sure if its ideal. [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 16:41, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
 
  
::I don't oppose to the idea of adding new strings or functions, before I give my proper input, I'd like to see it tested. [[User:Yossef|<font color="DB9C1F">'''Yossef'''</font>]] • [[User talk:Yossef|<font color="DB9C1F">'''Talk'''</font>]] 19:31, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
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:::::My Laptop is currently not being used. I have thought of the idea of making an HLMV machine, and letting paint variants being made while I do other things. This is something I thought about in the past, but I would require another monitor (which I can buy, no problem), but I also would need time, something I will not have that much starting 2024. However, I'm also in the point where I feel like I have contributed quite a lot for the Wiki already, so I'm kinda conflicted if I should really do this or not. I would only require to re-install Windows, re-configure HLMV (which can be painful), and things like that, before I can make it an idle HLMV machine that makes paint variants.
::: Seems to be working fine for all types, there could be a string missing or two for weapons but they can be placed on dictionary/common strings. [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 19:51, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
 
  
:::: This idea looks good on paper but doesn't really solve any issues as we can already sync infoboxes (WindBOT does that).
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:::::ShadowMan44 7) Correct, currently, the "Painted variants full" template states that mouse-hovered "Single colors" states that "due to how the cosmetic's textures are set up, it changes colors between teams". This would require to be changed appropriately, somehow, though I don't think that yet another Painted variants template should be made. It should be possible to just add a parameter of some sort.
:::: Unfortunately, it is quite unrealistic to create and maintain over 2000 new pages just for a small detail like this. And even if the infobox is updated, the rest of the article may not be.
 
:::: For something like this to be viable, you would have to address the following issues: 1) How can we make the transition? We can't simply edit all item articles. 2) How do you handle items with prefixes, suffixes, and descriptions that are not present in English? 3) How do you handle certain infobox parameters that require text in other languages? 4) Why is this template needed? — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] 17:24, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
 
::::: As I said earlier on the IRC, this can be done in a progressive way, first the infoboxes are created and then they can be implemented whenever needed or someone updates the page. A good example is the Crafting items category I already completed (these items have basic information compared to weapons or cosmetics), the only thing left to decide is the format of the page. For the prefixes, suffixes and descriptions we can use the lang template like I did on my last edits, and for the rest of the text we can create a section on dictionary/common strings, or simply don't create the infobox, this is also why the weapon infoboxes would be the last, if I'm not wrong its where those texts (like the reload type for weapons) would appear more frequently or at all. This template would be useful because of the backpack links and availability section, and really everything on the infobox, so I see a lot of benefits. Let me know if I missed something [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 18:24, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
 
  
:::::: Heya! Apologies, I haven't been around much.
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:::::Gabrielwoj, Andrew360 5) Despite me suggesting this, I was also not too sure about it, but I decided to post it as a matter of discussion. In most cases, Styles just change the look of an item, without changing the placement of the model, or the model itself. In some other cases, however, it does change something [[Liquor Locker]], [[Pocket-Medes]], etc. While it would be an interesting idea, and I do have a couple cosmetics with all styles made already, most of the rest would require to be remade. This could also be a little difficult for regular HLMV users, as refreshing the model viewer gets rid of the facial flex entirely, but not on HLMV++. While you can unload and load submodels without having to refresh, HLMV does read from "$color2" instead of "$colortint_base", which means if someone forgets about that on an older cosmetic, they'd need to refresh after fixing it from the .vmt.
::::::In the long run, it won't make sense for certain pages to have these new infoboxes while others do not. Your suggestions for handling prefixes, suffixes, and non-English descriptions don't make much sense. It's not common for editors to check every lang file, so having individual pages for the infobox that work exactly like they do now will not be helpful (someone still needs to update the page manually).
 
::::::Also, please don't make any further changes to existing pages. I won't go against the majority, but people need to discuss it ''first''. This is a major change and can't be done by one user alone. — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] 17:04, 17 March 2023 (UTC)
 
::::: Sadly nobody else commented so as the author I am closing the topic [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 17:49, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
 
  
== Taunt kill image inconsistency  ==
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:::::Profiteer 9) That's a good point. I guess if the Styles section was more populated (actually shows differences between classes), then I suppose that items like [[Manndatory Attire]] and [[Boarder's Beanie]] wouldn't require that huge amount of styles being shown on the table. But then, there's another problem. Items already show their unpainted RED and BLU variants on the infobox, and how exactly could we categorize "exceptions" to be only on the Styles section if we follow your idea?
  
On each class page there is a section for taunt kills which shows images of what taunt kills a class can do. However, on the [[Taunts]] page there are also taunt kills, however, these display different images from the class page ones. For example, on [[Demoman#Taunt_Attack]] you see {{code|File:Demoeyelander.png}}, but on [[Taunts#Kill_taunts]] you see {{code|File:Demomaneyelandertauntkill.png}}. There are other examples of this if you compare class pages to the taunts page. So my question is <br> A: Should one of these images be removed so there's the same image for both the taunt and class pages, and if the answer is yes for A: <br> B: Which images should be deleted, the ones on the taunts page or the ones on the class pages? <br> I personally think one of these images should be removed with the images on the taunts page being deleted. <br> [[User:Andrew360|<span style="font-family:TF2 Build; color:#038d3a ">Andrew360</span>]] [[File:Edit_icon.png|20px|link=Special:Contributions/Andrew360]] [[File:Speech typing.png|25px|link=User_talk:Andrew360]] [[File:Photo Badge Decal Example.png|15px|link=https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Special:ListFiles?limit=25&user=Andrew360&ilshowall=0]] 15:12, 12 March 2023 (UTC)
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:::::ShadowMan44 9) I'm not quite sure if I understood what you said. The styles table on both the Style section and infobox use the same exact images, same files, with some exceptions like the [[Dead of Night]] and [[Pocket-Medes]]. This is why I mentioned it being redundant, because in most cases, both sections use the same images. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 11:21, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
  
== Last laugh MvM ==
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::::::So [[User:Tekinz|Tekinz]] and [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] talked with me via Steam and Discord DMs, and I'd like to post their opinions on this. Tekinz asked me to post on my behalf, explaining what he told me instead of directly quoting him, while mgpt allowed me to directly translate what he told me. With that said, here's what they had to say:
  
new cosmetics added due to a charity [[User:Aistrrr|Aistrrr]] ([[User talk:Aistrrr|talk]]) 16:59, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
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::::::Tekinz: He told me that he agrees with most of my proposed update and changes, while pin-pointing some specific numbers with further explanation. He adds that for "7)", it would be a huge amount of work, and we would need quite a few active image creators to be able to achieve it in a timely manner, but otherwise it would be a general improvement to the pages. On "8)", he adds that he has no real problems with and thinks it's pretty good, mentioning that if combined with "1)", it would look great. On "9)", he mentioned that it's probably a good idea considering how the Styles section is located pretty far on the page and that it would probably be better to have them focused to the infobox since it's much closer to the top, alongside the rest of relevant images. He further adds that the Styles section always seemed not as important since it was too close to the Trivia and Patch Notes, while also being beneath the huge Painted Variants table that overshadows it.
  
:Could you elaborate a bit further?<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 17:02, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
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::::::mgpt:
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::::::{{c|+|Agree}} 1. Everything looks okay to me, if it's easy to implement;
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::::::{{c|+|Agree}} 2. I did take a look on some weapons, and I agree in using "Item icons";
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::::::{{c|+|Agree}} 3. I saw the comments, and Andrew360's idea, and I agree, it has my vote;
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::::::{{c|+|Agree}} 4. You got my vote, very good;
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::::::{{c|-|Disagree}} 5. I agree with Andrew360 and Profiteer, I don't think that it's worth the work, considering there's already images below on the infobox, alongside the painted variants;
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::::::{{c|Info}} 6. It ends up being the same as "5)", however, I'd like to see an example how it would look like;
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::::::{{c|+|Agree}} 7. I'm not sure if I noticed completely, but would that be switching the template from "Painted variants" to "Painted variants full" In several cosmetics, like how it was done in [[Brigade Helm]]? If so, I don't see a problem;
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::::::{{c|Info}} 7. An idea to the template. Wouldn't it look better if it was something like this, with 2 buttons? [https://i.imgur.com/LVXXb4C https://i.imgur.com/LVXXb4C] Or is it being done currently like it's on the page so it's possible to compare both teams at the same time? Probably that;
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::::::{{c|+|Agree}} 8. I like the idea, however, the information still continue to be too deep on the page, wouldn't be better to only show 4 or 5, instead of 9?;
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::::::{{c|Info}} 9. a) "An arrange of buttons that lets you change classes on the Styles table". In the example of [[Beaten and Bruised]], the images wouldn't be anymore on the infobox, correct?;
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::::::{{c|Info}} I like "8)"'s idea, but if "9)" is applied, then number "8)" is discarded. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 12:16, 3 January 2024 (UTC)
  
::[[Operation Last Laugh|Elaborated.]] [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png|30px|link=User:ThatHatGuy]] [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Talk.png|30px|link=User talk:ThatHatGuy]] [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Contribs.png|30px|link=Special:Contributions/ThatHatGuy]] 07:12, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
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:::::::I also replied to mgpt regarding some of his questions, so I had the following to say:
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:::::::7) On number "7)", it would be including previews like how it's done on "Single Color" paint cans on the BLU team, even if when they are applied on the same area, the paint color looks identical to the RED team. Currently, we only use "Painted variants full" in cases of items that has different colorization between teams, such as the case of [[Stout Shako]];
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:::::::7. a) I liked the idea of including RED and BLU on the top, it would be very intuitive. '''Post-thoughts:''' After re-reading his thoughts on this one, I saw that the original idea would be buttons, while I first thought they were simply two sections that would separate the teams more properly, visually. I thought if maybe that by doing so, we could include a faint red and a faint blue background to separate them both, and make the template a little more nice to look at, as currently there's a bunch of paint variants all included in one table.
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:::::::8) In regards to the default quantity, it would still be discussed, but the main idea would be something that could be expanded to show the remaining. I finished the [[Boarder's Beanie]] images, and the infobox ended up being very lengthy. The table for Painted variants will probably change if "4)" is implemented.
 +
:::::::9) The images would still stay on the infobox section, but the idea would be that on the Styles table, it would include an array of buttons with each of the classes icons, so it could be changed, similar to what it has been suggested on "4)". The only thing that, if "1)" is implemented, the Styles section may not be as necessary anymore. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 12:16, 3 January 2024 (UTC)
  
== Undocumented changes inconstancy ==
+
{{Outdent|7}} 1 {{c|?|Not sure}} It sure would be easy to implement but I feel this would discount the usefulness of the class gallery or style section.<br>
 
+
2/3 {{c|+|Agree}} It would clean up the inconsistencies from the 2D weapon images and make them extremely consistent. The item icons are used all over the wiki in subtle ways such as in crafting recipes or in big lists of weapons but it's time for those to be the defacto 2D image for weapons. Bring Shugo-style to the infobox!<br>
I just noticed how random it is. <br>
+
4 {{c|+|Agree}} Adding the class icons in place of the class name plus sorting the paint table by class would greatly improve the user experience. (I always stress when uploading paint galleries with multiple styles that I may upload to the incorrect style/class)<br>
Should it be === Undocumented changes === or == Undocumented changes == ?
+
5 {{c|-|Disagree}} On top of remaking all the infobox images being an immense amount of work, I feel this would also take away from the usefulness of the style box.<br>
 
+
6 {{c|?|Not sure}} I would be more open to this than #5 but I often find that the class gallery images often take me the most time to complete and be happy with. Trying to find good and unique poses and appropriate facial flexes for all 9 classes takes me a fair amount of time. I wish I was faster at it.<br>
[[User:Yaroslav|Yaroslav]] ([[User talk:Yaroslav|talk]]) 18:24, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
+
7 {{c|?|Not sure}} I kind of agree on this point but I feel it could just be on a cosmetic-by-cosmetic basis. Like we do now, I think, we could only implement this on hats that would benefit from a full paint gallery.<br>
 
+
8 {{c|+|Agree}} I agree with the others on this point, {{tl|Tabs}} would be great for this. I am more for moving the class styles out of the infobox and moving them to the style box. I feel more and more pages suffer from having a long infobox with the inclusion of more all-class, multi-style hats. If they were moved to the style box with tabs, I think many pages would look a whole lot cleaner and compact.<br>
:<nowiki>== Undocumented changes ==</nowiki>.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 18:27, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
+
9 {{c|-|Disagree}} See #8<br>
:: Isnt === Undocumented changes === the correct one, like most of the previous patches? Also for cases like the March 1, 2023 Patch. [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 19:01, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
+
[[User:H20verdrive|H20verdrive]] ([[User talk:H20verdrive|talk]]) 01:22, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
 
+
:I've been mildly intimidated, procrastinating voting on this for a week, but here we go:
:::I assumed it to be a similar case to the References discussion previously, as we agreed on <nowiki>==</nowiki>. If <nowiki>===</nowiki> is more common we should use that.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 19:03, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
+
:1. {{c|+|Agree}} Very good stuff.
 
+
:2. {{c|?|Abstain}} Not sure about this, it might seem awkward on some items. Like others have said I'd want to see it first.
== Should we archive the 2023 [[Team Fortress Wiki:April Fools' Day/Future|April Fool Discussion]]? ==
+
:3. {{c|+|Weak Agree}} Seems necessary, but I wonder if there's a more cohesive way to display them.
 
+
:4. {{c|+|Agree}} Looks nice, more visual and less clutter.
Maybe some of ideas which was not used in this April Fool Event can be approved by doing some changes. It would also inspire other editors in the future. --[[File:Tf medic setup charge.png|20px|link=User:BEUFK]]<font color="Blue">BEUFK</font> - [[Special:Contributions/BEUFK|Contributions]]-[[User_talk:BEUFK|Talk]] 04:53, 3 April 2023 (UTC)
+
:5. {{c|+|Weak Agree}} Seems alright.
 
+
:6. {{c|?|Abstain}} It seems a bit clunky and as someone said, might take a lot of work, but theoretically seems useful.
: Some ideas may be repurposed, but the current discussion must be archived. — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] 21:51, 10 April 2023 (UTC)
+
:7. {{c|+|Weak Agree}} As H20verdrive said, probably an item-by-item basis (maybe a "limited run" at first for the articles that need it most?) is best.
 
+
:8. {{c|+|Agree}} Looks cool; long infoboxes do need help, but I think it's most contingent upon all-class items.
== Stats in update history & patch notes consistencies ==
+
:9. {{c|-|Weak Disagree}} As all others said, this needs tweaking and removing Styles might be too radical, BUT the "arrange of buttons" might work.
 
+
:Overall, if I had to give a vote for the ''whole package'', {{c|+|Agree, with tweaking}}.--[[File:Leaderboard class allclass.png|15px|link=]] [[User:Akolyth|<span style="font-size: 14px; font-family: Trebuchet MS">'''Akolyth'''</span>]] ([[User_talk:Akolyth|talk]]) 02:21, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
This is about 2 issues:
+
::Well, we got a lot of responses with this discussion, thank you everyone for reading and replying. I guess we could start making some of these proposed changes? Ones that got the most positive votes, while discarding ones that didn't get much positive reception. Perhaps let's talk what should be the best options according to your guys voting. I don't have time to actually write up new template codes and stuff at the moment, however some already have templates available for that (#7), and others should be a little more straightforward in changing (I would imagine that including the Shugo style icons for weapons be quite straightforward, if that would go through). [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 00:26, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
 
+
:::Swood suggested me to make a table having total votes from everyone:
1. The consistency of patch notes.
+
{| class="wikitable"
 
+
|-
2. Should the stats be listed in the update history?
+
| Suggestion 1 || {{c|+|Agree}}: '''7''' || {{c|-|Disagree}}: '''1''' || {{c|?|Abstain}}: '''2'''
 
+
|-
I believe that it's too much effort to list every single original stat in the update history, and it is also not the purpose of the update history to describe the state every weapon has been in (merely to indicate which updates have changed the weapon).
+
| Suggestion 2 || {{c|+|Agree}}: '''7''' || {{c|-|Disagree}}: '''0''' || {{c|?|Abstain}}: '''1'''
 
+
|-
I also think that the patch notes should essentially be a 1:1 copy of the wording used in the original patch notes, with some minor exceptions i.e. "added x amount of unusual effects" -> "Added [unu effect name] to the game" instead. This has been an unwritten rule for quite a while now, but has been randomly overturned a while ago without any discussion whatsoever, so here's the formal discussion.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 10:20, 10 April 2023 (UTC)
+
| Suggestion 3 || {{c|+|Agree}}: '''9''' || {{c|-|Disagree}}: '''0''' || {{c|?|Abstain}}: '''1'''
 
+
|-
:My thoughts are the same as yours: it's too much effort, that's not the Update history's purpose, and patch notes should be as 1:1 as possible. - [[User:BrazilianNut|BrazilianNut]] ([[User talk:BrazilianNut|talk]]) 11:02, 10 April 2023 (UTC)
+
| Suggestion 4 || {{c|+|Agree}}: '''10''' || {{c|-|Disagree}}: '''0''' || {{c|?|Abstain}}: '''0'''
 
+
|-
::For me, the Update History should tell what happened to the items thorough the time span of the game, including stats changes and such to the finest details. Imagine a history book that didn't tell what happen exactly in the past. Yes, it's required a lot of effort, but it's what Update history is.
+
| Suggestion 5 || {{c|+|Agree}}: '''4''' || {{c|-|Disagree}}: '''4''' || {{c|?|Abstain}}: '''2'''
::P.S. History is a chronological record of events, as of the life or development of a people or institution, often including an explanation of or commentary on those events. [[File:User Hinaomi Hinaomi-sig.png|link=User:Hinaomi]] [[User:Hinaomi|Rikka Takanashi]] <small>([[User talk:Hinaomi|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Hinaomi|contributions]])</small> 13:38, 10 April 2023 (UTC)
+
|-
 
+
| Suggestion 6 || {{c|+|Agree}}: '''4''' || {{c|-|Disagree}}: '''1''' || {{c|?|Abstain}}: '''4'''
:{{Pro}} I agree with Gramps, my take is that Update History should document what the official patch notes mentions. As for the stats, I don’t mind adding them in the Update History as long as Valve specifically mentions those changes in their patch notes. [[User:Yossef|<font color="DB9C1F">'''Yossef'''</font>]] [[User talk:Yossef|<font color="DB9C1F">'''Talk'''</font>]] 14:47, 10 April 2023 (UTC)
+
|-
:: 1:1 patch notes and like Yossef said [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 17:21, 10 April 2023 (UTC)
+
| Suggestion 7 || {{c|+|Agree}}: '''8''' || {{c|-|Disagree}}: '''0''' || {{c|?|Abstain}}: '''1'''
 
+
|-
:::Patch notes ''can'' be freely modified in articles (just like Hinaomi said). This has ''always'' been the case and I don't see any reason to change it now.
+
| Suggestion 8 || {{c|+|Agree}}: '''8''' || {{c|-|Disagree}}: '''1''' || {{c|?|Abstain}}: '''2'''
 
+
|-
:::As for stats, I prefer mimicking Dota's patch notes:
+
| Suggestion 9 || {{c|+|Agree}}: '''2''' || {{c|-|Disagree}}: '''3''' || {{c|?|Abstain}}: '''4'''
 
+
|}
:::- Increased the damage to XX (from YY) - for the item article
+
My own votings have been included too. I agree with all of the changes I proposed except "5)", which I only suggested since I already had some Style images laying around on my computer, ready to be uploaded if it were to be accepted. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 17:49, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
:::- Updated the weapon damage (YY -> XX) - for any other article mentioning the change
 
 
 
:::— [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] 21:37, 10 April 2023 (UTC)
 
:::: I agree with Tark, but maybe we should add something to differentiate 1:1 patch notes to edited ones (maybe writing edited ones in italics) · [[User:Ashe|<font color="DB9C1F">Ashe</font>]] ([[User talk:Ashe|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 23:09, 10 April 2023 (UTC)
 
::::: I also agree with Tark. 1:1 patch notes and slightly edited patch notes have co-existed in the past, and the information provided, in terms of weapon stats, will be valid for the time of the patch note. I don't see any harm in providing that information, even if it later becomes outdated; it might be helpful to look up, and it'll always have the header of the date for which those stats were used, after all -- with perhaps, as Ashe said, a divider of sorts, if stats outside of patch notes are used. — [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png|30px|link=User:ThatHatGuy]] [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Talk.png|30px|link=User talk:ThatHatGuy]] [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Contribs.png|30px|link=Special:Contributions/ThatHatGuy]] 05:35, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
 
 
 
== What to do about broken painted items lists? + other pressing paint issues ==
 
 
 
I posted this on [[User:Tark|Tark]]'s page, and was told to bring it here, so here it is; first, a brief rundown of the issues at hand:
 
* The lists of paintable items: [[List of paintable items (Scout)|Scout]], [[List of paintable items (Soldier)|Soldier]], [[List of paintable items (Pyro)|Pyro]], [[List of paintable items (Demoman)|Demoman]], [[List of paintable items (Heavy)|Heavy]], [[List of paintable items (Engineer)|Engineer]], [[List of paintable items (Medic)|Medic]], [[List of paintable items (Sniper)|Sniper]], [[List of paintable items (Spy)|Spy]], and [[List of paintable items (All class items)|all-class]], are all ''incredibly'' out of date, displaying only paintable items from over ten years ago.
 
* The current MediaWiki version we're on, and perhaps ''any'' MediaWiki version, cannot support even ''this'' many items in a single template. You can see that right now: if you go to the All Classes list, the template does not load, because it's broken the limit of template include sizes.
 
So it's clear that these lists need a major revamp; and we probably won't even be able to do it through a template anymore, ''especially'' if we add all the items that have since been paintable after 2011. It would certainly be too much for a single template to handle, with the infrastructure we're using at the moment.
 
 
 
Tark mentioned that he would probably be able to update the lists with his PhoneWave bot, once we've figured out what to do, and that's a fine solution -- there will certainly be more paintable items to come. The larger problem at hand is: what are we going to ''do'' to fix the lists to begin with, considering that updating our existing templates is almost definitely out of the equation?
 
 
 
We may also have to consider updating the [[Template:Unpaintable items list|unpaintable items list]], for consistency's sake, if templates are to be discarded; and, while we're at it, this may be a nice starting point for another list featuring [[User:Gabrielwoj|Gabrielwoj]]'s new unused paint variant images, as a separate thing from items which are completely and totally unpaintable. — [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png|30px|link=User:ThatHatGuy]] [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Talk.png|30px|link=User talk:ThatHatGuy]] [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Contribs.png|30px|link=Special:Contributions/ThatHatGuy]] 02:13, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
 
:I personally don't see how the lists are useful to anyone. If someone looks how a cosmetic will look like, they will search for that cosmetic's article, not the list. Imo that list should be replaced with categories for each class (currently there is only 1 cat that groups all paintable cosmetics) · [[User:Ashe|<font color="DB9C1F">Ashe</font>]] ([[User talk:Ashe|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 03:51, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
 
 
 
::One of the idea is splitting to each years so it won't overload the single template, but the question is "how many people care about this template". Because like Ashe said, if I want to see how the item look with paint, I go to individual pages. [[File:User Hinaomi Hinaomi-sig.png|link=User:Hinaomi]] [[User:Hinaomi|Rikka Takanashi]] <small>([[User talk:Hinaomi|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Hinaomi|contributions]])</small> 05:10, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
 
 
 
:::Agreed with Hinaomi on this one, ''if'' we wanna keep these templates at all I'd suggest doing it similar to [[Item timeline]] where we split it up into each year. If we don't want to keep them, I suggest redirecting to [[:Category:Paintable items]] and [[:Category:Unpaintable items]] instead (and perhaps making a separate category such as [[:Category:Items with unused paintability]] for all the items with unused painted variants).<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 08:33, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
 
:::: I personally am in favour of ditching templates entirely, when it comes to listing the items. Paintabilty templates by year are a fine solution, but they would need to be manually up-kept, in the same way that the item timelines are -- and those timelines ''themselves'' are in a current state of incompleteness. No one tends add to medals to them, even though they are a significant part of what gets added to the game in this stage in its life. That's only tangentially related, however; my point is, that with the idea of manual upkeep, comes the potential reality of neglect. That's why we're here in the ''first place,'' in regards to this paintability list discussion.
 
 
 
:::: I say, we link to the categories, and as suggested, start a new category for items whose textures are set up for paint, but have the option disabled. We'll most likely have the existing {{tl|Painted variants unused}} template automatically add the category to pages going forward, that seems like the simplest way to move ahead with this. Then, we could link to the categories in the [[Paint Can]] article the same way we link to the paintability lists now, through something [[User:ThatHatGuy/Sandbox|like this,]] for the sake of example. The article would have the tool demonstration video, this template change, and then straight to the existing Colors template, ditching the unpaintable table entirely; though we'd have to come up with an icon for unused paintability. — [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png|30px|link=User:ThatHatGuy]] [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Talk.png|30px|link=User talk:ThatHatGuy]] [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Contribs.png|30px|link=Special:Contributions/ThatHatGuy]] 13:14, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
 
::::: +1 for ThatHatGuy proposal above [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 00:06, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
 
 
 
== A page for the canceled Team Fortress II Quake 2 mod? ==
 
 
 
I just created the [[TeamFortress Software]] page in preparation for creating a page about the canceled [https://web.archive.org/web/19980625060156/http://www.teamfortress.com/tf2.html Team Fortress II Quake 2 mod/Half-Life add-on], but I was told to open a discussion here before creating any new pages.<br>[[User:Ginger Jesus|Ginger Jesus]] ([[User talk:Ginger Jesus|talk]]) 17:44, 15 May 2023 (UTC)
 
 
 
:Seems like this would be better fit to add as a mention on [[Team Fortress 2#Development]] rather than its own page.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 17:47, 15 May 2023 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Unknown patch notes ==
 
 
 
Continuation from [[Talk:Wiki Cap#Unknown patch note]].<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 14:03, 16 May 2023 (UTC)
 
 
 
: To start with, I would say that Yossef's proposed ''format'' is not bad; it is both effective and consistent.
 
: I would wonder though, that by the simple virtue of being untraceable to any known patch, the change is also [undocumented], to be pedantic.
 
: If you were to have a policy, it could simply define the format, and then just say that the default position is at the bottom, ''barring'' any defensible position at a later date higher in the list. But you know me, I'll take a highly-qualified best guess bordering on observation most any day.  I mean, always putting it at the bottom is also a guess. As far as problems go ...
 
 
 
:[[User:Mikado282|<span style="font-family: Impact"><font color="db9c1f">''' M I K A D O 282 '''</font></span><span style="font-family: Arial "><font color="00ff00"> <small>⊙</small>⊙⊙⊙⊙<small>⊙ ⊙⊙  ⊙⊙</small></font></span>]] </small> <!-- --
 
--> <small> ([[User:Mikado282/Contact Mikado282|Contact Mikado282 (SM)]]) | ([[Special:Contributions/Mikado282|'''''contribs''''']]) ([[User:Mikado282/Help Wanted!|'''''Help Wanted!''''']]) </small> 18:26, 16 May 2023 (UTC)
 
 
 
:: {{info}} It seems that we reached a consensus, that being '''{{code|Unknown Patches}}''' should be at the bottom. As for the name: I [[Talk:Wiki Cap#Unknown patch note|mentioned]] that I personally prefer the name that [[User:GrampaSwood|Gramps]] proposed, being '''{{code|Changes made in unknown patches}}''', but I wouldn't oppose the other name that [[User:BrazilianNut|BrazilianNut]] proposed, which is '''{{code|Unknown Patches}}'''. [[User:Yossef|<font color="DB9C1F">'''Yossef'''</font>]] • [[User talk:Yossef|<font color="DB9C1F">'''Talk'''</font>]] 09:17, 21 May 2023 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Create a page? ==
 
 
 
I have looked for how to create a page everywhere and I can’t find how. Can someone help me? Or is there a help discussion.[[User:0Bytes0O|0Bytes0O]] ([[User talk:0Bytes0O|talk]]) 19:46, 19 May 2023 (UTC)
 
 
 
:If you want to create a page, create it on your [[Special:MyPage/Sandbox|sandbox]] first, then it will be reviewed and if it gets approved it will be moved.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 19:52, 19 May 2023 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Tournament medal pages ==
 
 
 
Hi, the [[Tournament Medal - Team Fortress 2 Competitive League#Medal designs|current way]] the medals are displayed doesnt seem ideal to me, especially for tournaments with lot of medals like [[Tournament Medal - PASS Time Federation#Medal designs|PASS Time Federation]], [[Tournament Medal - UGC 6vs6#Medal designs|UGC 6vs6]], [[Tournament Medal - Ready Steady Pan#Medal designs|RSP]], etc, take a look at the Competitive Nav template to see more examples.
 
 
 
I made [[User:Mgpt/sandbox#Tournament Medal|this]] table and it could be a good replacement as it lists every medal and and only one section would be needed instead of "Medal designs/List of medals". There are also some tournament medals with descriptions (+ donor medals/operation medals) (Australian Hightower Highjinx, Rally Whale, etc) and the table would need some changes to show the descriptions... [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 00:01, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
 
 
 
<b>Closed</b> [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 19:44, 1 June 2023 (UTC)
 
 
 
:Looks good, however, a separate table that supports descriptions would be good.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 09:07, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
 
:: I'm the one that did the format design for how these operate, and I largely worked with what was available at the time; as far as these new pitches go:
 
:: Descriptions are an absolute must. They aren't all just "Season X" or "Cup X", and being able to support medals reissued with different description strings is the entire reason they're even listed more than once on the tournament pages now. I'd like it if these tables could have a divider line, and be able to list several descriptions per one medal design. That would cut down on a lot of clutter over time.
 
:: Most recent community medals wouldn't work in this new table format presently, because of the custom paint splats a lot of them have these days. In-game ''and'' on the articles for most community MVM tours, paint splats are displayed for each custom color override, which these tables do not support at the moment.
 
:: — [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png|30px|link=User:ThatHatGuy]] [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Talk.png|30px|link=User talk:ThatHatGuy]] [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Contribs.png|30px|link=Special:Contributions/ThatHatGuy]] 01:39, 30 May 2023 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Paintable items with styles and a lot of taken space ==
 
 
 
A suggestion. Every paintable cosmetic with styles adds a lot of extra space just to diplay images of painted variants. Can they all me merged into tabs like it was done [[Batter's Helmet|here]] for example? Even with only 2 styles, like [[Masked Fiend|here]], this saves space. Plus it's easier to compare changes between styles. [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 13:13, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
 
 
 
:Looks good, {{c|Support}}.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 14:21, 16 June 2023 (UTC)
 
:: +1 [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 02:48, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
 
::: {{c|Support}} Yessss sir. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 02:54, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Medal designs section (closed) ==
 
 
 
While the table idea [https://imgur.com/a/L21n7sI would "fix"] (just an example, more on User:Mgpt/sandbox history) all of these width and space problems, the discussion didn't end up well, now I think we need a solution for [[Tournament Medal - Cap that Cup#Medal designs|this]]. Is there a way to "fix" the space between the backpack templates? It just doesn't fit the page, the descriptions take a lot of space too. Other pages are fine, like [[Tournament Medal - Beginnings 5#Medal designs|Beginnings 5]]. [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 03:18, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Request to revert talk page to regular wikitext ==
 
 
 
Hello. Please, could a TF Wiki staff member revert [[Talk:Customize items|this talk page]] to the regular wikitext?<br>Thanks in advance.<br/>[[User:Tiagoquix|<font color="#1e90ff">Tiagoquix</font>]] ([[User talk:Tiagoquix|<font color="#19c819">talk</font>]]) 16:07, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
 
 
 
: [[Team_Fortress_Wiki:Technical_requests#Taking requests for converting talk pages back to regular 'ol wikitext]]. — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] 17:10, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
 
 
 
:: Thank you for letting me know.<br/>[[User:Tiagoquix|<font color="#1e90ff">Tiagoquix</font>]] ([[User talk:Tiagoquix|<font color="#19c819">talk</font>]]) 17:32, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Article titles for custom content ==
 
 
 
I'd like to propose a small change regarding the names of articles for custom content, and I encourage y'all to provide feedback for the [[Team Fortress Wiki:Community topics notability guidelines|upcoming community topics notability guidelines]] if you haven't already.
 
 
 
Currently, some articles (e.g., [[:Category:Mann_vs._Machine_mission|mission articles]]) and articles with the same name (e.g., [[Firewatch]] and [[Firewatch (map)]]) mention the "type" within the "article suffix". I suggest that if the article pertains to a custom map or any other custom content, it should specify "custom thing" in the suffix instead of just "thing".
 
 
 
For example, "Firewatch (map)" → "Firewatch (custom map)", "Aerial Stupidity (mission)" → "Aerial Stupidity (custom mission)", etc.
 
 
 
Thanks. — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] 15:48, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
 
 
 
:{{C|Support}}<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 16:15, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
 
  
:: {{c|+|Me II}}  [[User:Mikado282|<span style="font-family: Impact"><font color="db9c1f">''' M I K A D O 282 '''</font></span><span style="font-family: Arial "><font color="00ff00"> <small>⊙</small>⊙⊙⊙⊙<small>⊙ ⊙⊙  ⊙⊙</small></font></span>]] </small> <!-- --
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== Userbox, and creator page ==
--> <small> ([[User:Mikado282/Contact Mikado282|Contact Mikado282 (SM)]]) | ([[Special:Contributions/Mikado282|'''''contribs''''']]) ([[User:Mikado282/Help Wanted!|'''''Help Wanted!''''']]) </small> 01:07, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
 
  
::: {{c|done}}. — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] 22:44, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
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Hey! I have a question, how i add userbox and how i add some decoration to my page like evryone did ? [[User:Nonolemage|Nonolemage]] ([[User talk:Nonolemage|talk]]) 13:21, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
  
== Use the item link template consistently?    ==
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:For userboxes see [[Team Fortress Wiki:User info boxes]]. Otherwise, the rest of the decoration is up to you. You may be interested in {{tl|User infobox}}.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 13:27, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
  
I'm wonder if every English-written pages should also use the <nowiki>{{item link}}, including any other stuff</nowiki>? That's convenient for our translator to a certain degree. --[[File:Tf medic setup charge.png|20px|link=User:BEUFK]]<font color="Blue">BEUFK</font> - [[Special:Contributions/BEUFK|Contributions]]-[[User_talk:BEUFK|Talk]] 14:18, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
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::Thanks for the info box ! But how exactly i decorate my page ? Like how i use custom image or something like thats ? Did you have a page thats can help me to do this ?[[User:Nonolemage|Nonolemage]] ([[User talk:Nonolemage|talk]]) 13:59, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
  
:Although it may be convenient, templates do have a longer loading time. It's best to use only when necessary.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 14:21, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
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:::[[Help:Images]] may help you with how to place images, for images to use, simply upload them using [[Special:Upload|the upload page]]. The correct format for images only used on your User page is "User Nonolemage [file name]", so for example "User Nonolemage profile picture.png" or "User Nonolemage scout loadout.jpg". When uploading them on the upload page, include <nowiki>[[Category:User images]]</nowiki> in the summary box. This should be done for every image you want to use on your User page.
  
:: They should be used whenever possible (alongside {{tlx|item description}}).  — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] 15:14, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
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:::As for more complicated design, that is usually done using CSS and/or Javascript. I can't help you much with that.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 14:08, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
  
== Backpack icons in 'Bugs' section inconsistency ==
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::::Thanks you a lot ! You realy helped me ! [[User:Nonolemage|Nonolemage]] ([[User talk:Nonolemage|talk]]) 14:10, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
  
This needs some clarification as sometimes it's [https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/index.php?title=Fast_Learner&diff=3449290&oldid=3449255 very well documented] and sometimes it's [https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/index.php?title=Buckaroo%27s_Hat&diff=3449342&oldid=3179036 deleted for being not notable]. Personally I'm against removing them as technically it is a bug (more a visual glitch) that the reader should be aware of, and maybe even the creator of said cosmetic, as they might not be aware of it themself and maybe they'll fix it someday. [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 07:43, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
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== Civilian Image ==
  
:The fire overlay is only really noticeable upon close inspection, while there being 2 completely different item icons may actually confuse a player because they'll be looking for one but only seeing the other.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 09:16, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
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Should we change the image of the [[Civilian]] ? Because it's the scout in A pose but the civilain got some real texture thats can be use and found [[User:Nonolemage|Nonolemage]] ([[User talk:Nonolemage|talk]]) 12:54, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
  
:: The fire overlay is not really that notable considering there's multiple official Valve artworks on update pages that also includes them. Also, "fire overlay" is a term that is mostly known for those who have used the model viewer in the past, it's not something that most readers would catch up, and even if they would click on the backpack icon to view it entirely, they might not actually know what a fire overlay, considering it's actually hard to see. It's not something that really affects who is looking for a specific icon in their backpacks, as mentioned before, they are hard to see, especially in their non-_large.vtf versions. Other backpack icons of items that show differently ([[Fancy Dress Uniform]] having the epaulettes painted in white, [[Heavy Tourism]] having the icon from an earlier version of the cosmetic, etc.), are more notable, because they differ from the actual look in the game. The Fast Learner one is perhaps the only instance in-game where the non-_large version differs from the _large version. It may not be as big of a deal compared to other backpack icon bugs, but it still is an inconsistency in the game itself. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 12:39, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
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:That is how the Civilian class looked when it was still available in TF2, [[Civilian (Classic)]] is the TFC version.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 12:57, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
  
:::Someone couldn't keep watching incorrect icons so they [https://gamebanana.com/mods/429704 fixed them all]. Then Valve responded.. poor guy.
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::Oh, but i play a mod of tf2 (tf2c) thats show a finished model of the civilain so maybe i can add a picture of it in the galery for show what it looked finished ? Or it's not important ?[[User:Nonolemage|Nonolemage]] ([[User talk:Nonolemage|talk]]) 13:04, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
:::So, should we include '''all''' incorrect icons in 'Bugs' section, including stuff like outdated textures/model, items that have some paint applied, are semi transparent due to wrong alpha layer value, and less noticable but still visible fire overly, or exlude fire overlay issue? [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 14:21, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
 
  
::::Big inconsistenties ones are fine (e.g. inconsistent between icons or big inconsistenties between icon and model), but if it's something very small I would leave them out.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 14:35, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
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:::That's not an official version of it, that's fan-made. No Civilian model or textures has been made for TF2.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 13:11, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
  
== Collector's quality in update history ==
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== Weapon in user page ==
  
Weapons that received Collector's quality have this addition documented in their update history, but cosmetics don't. Should this be added to their update history too? [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 10:09, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
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Hey it's AGAIN me ! I see some people have a list of weapon they used for evry class but i don't know how to do this, can someone help me ? [[User:Nonolemage|Nonolemage]] ([[User talk:Nonolemage|talk]]) 07:32, 14 January 2024 (UTC)
  
:Yes.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 10:34, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
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:Well, you could try learning how to use [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Table wikitables], there are also templates like [[Template:Backpack item]] and [[Template:User weapon checklist]] you could use to this effect.<br><span style="background:#393939;padding:2px 12px;font-family: TF2 Build;font-size: 1em;border-radius: 10px 10px 10px 10px;">[[User:Luno|Luno]] <span style="color:#FC0;letter-spacing:-2px">🪐🌕</span> [[User talk:Luno|<span style="color:#fff">Talk</span>]] <span style="color:#559655;letter-spacing:-2px">/</span> [[Special:Contributions/Luno|<span style="color:#fff">Contributions</span>]] <span style="color:#538AC5;letter-spacing:-2px">/</span> [[Team_Fortress_Wiki:Translation_progress/fr|<span style="color:#4d748b">T</span><span style="color:#fff">ea</span><span style="color:#ab4848">m</span>]]</span> 03:20, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
  
::One more thing. Sometimes Collector's quality is labeled in patch notes as undocumented change and sometimes not. Which one is correct? [[November 12, 2013 Patch|Here is the patch]]. [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 13:43, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
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== Allweapons Nav template ==
  
:::Depends on if it's noted in the patch notes or not.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 13:47, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
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Hi! I've created two mockups as potential replacements for the current [[Template:Allweapons Nav|Allweapons Nav]] template. I'd like to get your opinion. You can check out the templates on [[User:Mgpt/Sandbox#Test|my sandbox user page]] ('''Nav 1''' and '''Nav 2'''). The "Secondary" label for "All classes" in '''Nav 2''' appears a bit off, and I'm having trouble fixing it. Thanks! [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 02:59, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
  
::::All patch notes refer to the same patch from November 12, 2013. All it says is '"Added 'Collector's" item quality. "Collector's" items are created by completing special Chemistry Sets.' Doesn't specify what items. I don't know how to interpret it. [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 13:55, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
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:I don't really see what's wrong with the current one.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 11:59, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
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:: Outdated/It's not a "real" nav like the others (Hat/Tool Nav). If someone else comments please compare both so you can see the differences [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 16:05, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
  
:::::Then it's documented.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 14:07, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
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:::I did compare both, but it doesn't exactly answer what's wrong with the current one. If people really wanted it changed I'd go for Nav 1, but I would still like to see stock and non-stock separated.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 16:16, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
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::::There's already a nav for them on the weapon page and stock is always the first (they can be in italic, would that work?). I personally prefer Nav 2 because it is actually a nav (not a table) but also consistent with Hat and Tool Nav. Edit: About the availability strings, they shouldn't be there, especially because they're outdated and were added more than 10 years ago. Definitely not the purpose of the template. [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 20:11, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
  
::::::I've stumbled into some problems. Some cosmetics were added after November 12 2013 patch and some, like [[Argyle Ace]] for example, exists in Collector's quality but last added documented Chemistry Set dates back to april, before the item was even added to the game. Perhaps Chemistry Sets were still dropping while the item was added? I need some help from other editors with this so I won't mess up something. [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 08:08, 29 June 2023 (UTC)
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:::::I'd prefer for them to be separated regardless, if only in a little box above all of them or with a line separating them. Both the current one and both your versions are technically tables either way, I think a differently structured nav doesn't necessarily make it not a nav or somehow inferior.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 20:39, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
  
:::::::Collector sets were found via item drops for all items that could be found in the item drop system until they (sets) were discontinued; and additionally the 2013 festive weapons could also have their sets unboxed as a rare bonus item from the corresponding crates. Any item added to the drop system while sets were still dropping would have had the potential for a set to drop on day one, it'd just be rarer for them since there was less time for the already stupid rare cosmetic set to drop to someone. (This is my best guess to how they operated since none of this info was shared publicly afaik). Adding this info to items added after the November 12 patch would be akin to putting "The Argyle Ace was added to the game in unique quality", imo it's not needed. [[User:Jh34ghu43gu|Jh34ghu43gu]] ([[User talk:Jh34ghu43gu|talk]]) 13:10, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
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{{outdent|5}} Personally, I prefer Nav 1. I like the structure of the current Weapon Nav the way it is, I just don't like the availability strings cluttering things up, and the taunts needlessly listing which weapons they're for. Nav 1 simplifies things in a way that's easier to read, certainly. I'd also be fine with Stock weapons being separated, perhaps with a "Stock" header and then a line break before the others.  
  
== Artist-provided content ==
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Incidentally, re: "the 'Secondary' label for 'All classes' in Nav 2 appears a bit off, and I'm having trouble fixing it."
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* That should be a "Melee" label, as you've probably realized by now.
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* It's looking off because the single list of weapons you've used isn't enough to fill out the space of the column. You'd need at least three lists to fill out the space that the "All Classes" column takes, so the single list you gave sits in the middle. — [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png|30px|link=User:ThatHatGuy]] 10:21, 17 January 2024 (UTC)
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: I made some changes, thanks for the input [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 03:18, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
  
[[Moby Francke]] has been generous, sharing copies of his [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krCQ3lbXgLs power point presentation] with various people.  An instance of this was discussed on #tfwiki-staff IRC last Friday (June 30)
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:: Nav 1 seems almost set to me, I like the Normal quality grey indication, while still being separated by slot. My only slight nitpick now would be that I'd prefer if the non-stock weapons were organized by release order -- at the moment, reskins of stock are still at the top of the non-stock section, which doesn't make ''as much'' sense, now that we've agreed on separating stock into its own box. — [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png|30px|link=User:ThatHatGuy]] 03:33, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
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::: I initially added them randomly from the Weapons page, but I'll definitely reorganize them by release order :D I may scrap the all class section, the idea was not to repeat weapons, but we have the Shotgun, so... [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 03:45, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
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:::: Updated the template [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 19:01, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
  
The main question was whether it was permitted to use the images an artist provides to private persons on this Wiki.
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== About the 2023 leak ==
  
I believe the conclusion was that Moby Franke had not granted effective Creative Commons release (See [[Team Fortress Wiki:Licensing images]]) .
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Hello ! Im a translator of the unused content and i see on the social media a leak from 2023 of some map and iteam thats has been abandoned or unfinished. So i was thinking if i can work on it for make some page on the unused content section. (The leak is from a valve employer) [[User:Nonolemage|Nonolemage]] ([[User talk:Nonolemage|talk]]) 15:52, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
  
Valve content is fair game, but I can't say with complete confidence what in the Franke power point is Valve's and what is not. Many of the images are already on the Wiki, but at smaller size and quality, mostly taken from Valve's [https://www.teamfortress.com/artwork.php official Team Fortress artwork gallery]. Note that CC license can be granted to lower resolution images while withheld on high resolution originals.
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:As long as you source all of these changes and abide by the [[Team Fortress Wiki:Policies#Leaked content|leaked content policy]]. This leak was also not from a Valve employee, as far as I know.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 15:57, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
  
Moreover, not all images in the power point are Moby Franke's work. This is paricularly clear with examples of [[Jeff Ballinger]]'s work. Freely giving someone a copy of the power point can not free the license of any other creator's work in the shared material.
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::So if i understand, i donnt have the right to put any picture of anything if it's from a leak ? And by the way, how did the code for cited content from leak work ? And if it's not from a valve employer, from who it's from ? (Sorry for all my question and thanks for anwsering me ;-;) [[User:Nonolemage|Nonolemage]] ([[User talk:Nonolemage|talk]]) 16:08, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
  
It is also clear with the two Jack Delano photographs of Mikado282. These are from 1940-1945 and so any copyright for Jack Delano has not expired yet in the US. But if these were made under Federal employment, they might be free; they might even be available through the US Library of Congress.
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:::Don't link to any places that host leaked content (so do not link to a Tweet containing a picture of a leaked model, or containing a link to a Google Drive with the leaked content, etc.), do not directly upload media of leaked content or copy-paste code, and do not link to or upload media of recreations of leaked content. All the information you put on the page should contain a reference to where you got it from (see the examples on the policy). It's likely someone with a Source engine license that leaked everything.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 16:19, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
  
However, if an artist's ''TF'' works are legitimately hosted in a gallery or repository on some website, then I say that the link to those hostings can be added to the "other site" list in the artist's NPP.
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::::I understand, thanks a lot for your help again and i will do evrything you say ! [[User:Nonolemage|Nonolemage]] ([[User talk:Nonolemage|talk]]) 16:38, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
  
[[User:Mikado282|<span style="font-family: Arial"><span style="background:lightgrey"><font color="E7B53B"> ★</font><font color="FF0000">M</font><font color="E7B53B">★</font><font color="FFFFFF">I</font><font color="E7B53B">★</font><font color="2020FF">K</font><font color="E7B53B">★</font><font color="FF0000">A</font><font color="E7B53B">★</font><font color="FFFFFF">D</font><font color="E7B53B">★</font><font color="2020FF">O</font><font color="E7B53B">★1776!★</font></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial"><font color="70B04A">''' 🎇🎆🎆🎆🎆🎇 🎇🎇 🎇🎇  '''</font></span>]] <!-- --
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== [[Template:Community Medal Nav|Community Medal Nav]] (closed) ==
--> <small> ([[User:Mikado282/Contact Mikado282|Contact Mikado282 (SM)]]) | ([[Special:Contributions/Mikado282|'''''contribs''''']]) ([[User:Mikado282/Help Wanted!|'''''Help Wanted!''''']]) </small> 19:31, 3 July 2023 (UTC)
 
  
:I believe that, because Valve has released these images themselves in a lower quality, they are owned by Valve themselves and thus are fine for us to use.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 20:54, 3 July 2023 (UTC)
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I feel a bit lost with the medal scheme and how it has been handled. Where exactly is this template supposed to be used? I know that {{tl|Hat Nav}} lists the same contents, which I recently updated. I think we should either use this one and remove the medal section from Hat Nav or just use Hat Nav, no? Thanks in advance [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 21:28, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
  
:: I haven't had time to check everything myself, but why not ask the source directly? I assume the third-party content/inspiration is off-limits, but everything else should fall under fair use.
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:With the ever-increasing MvM medals, we should remove it from the Hat Nav and keep this one. The Hat Nav will cause pages to be too large at some point.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 21:29, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
:: That said, we do have an issue of not being able to *link* this PDF at all (we can't rehost it, it was shared through a random Discord server not a "showcase website" etc.). The material here is very interesting, but I'm not sure how we could document it. — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] 14:52, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
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:: Would adding an [https://i.imgur.com/XeBjHCT.png 'Other' section with two links] for Community and Tournament medals work then? With this approach, we also need to update the "[[Template:Competitive Nav|Competitive play]]" Nav. Also, both templates use images, is there a specific reason for that?
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:: Edit: They're also cosmetic items, so they should still be mentioned, in my opinion [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 21:40, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
  
:::I believe it was already asked (in this specific case), but not sure if a reply was received yet, I'll give it a try myself. As for hosting it, I think the best thing is to convert the files from the .pdf to separate .png files and create a gallery until we find a way to host the .pdf.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 09:39, 14 July 2023 (UTC)
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:::I would put the 2 links in the hat nav, then keep the medal nav separately. The comp nav can get rid of it imo, and just having a tournament medal link. I prefer having this separate one.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 22:07, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
  
== Unofficial voice actor voice lines ==
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:::: I like the template, but it's too big. We don't need images for all the medals: they are exactly the same and this won't scale well if Valve ever allows new medals again (see comp nav). — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] 00:16, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
  
With the inclusion of the VSH gamemode, several new voice lines were added that are not voiced by the actual voice actors. Should these be on a separate page (i.e. "Versus Saxton Hale audio responses") or should these just be included on the audio responses page with a note saying it's not the official voice actor?<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 09:43, 14 July 2023 (UTC)
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::::: Disagree with "they're exactly the same," they're clearly, almost all of them, not ''exactly'' the same, but I know that my opinions about all this don't matter too much anyhow. I would be fine with listing the names of the medals instead, but then they'd all have the name of the operation over and over again, and it would be very clunky to look at. That's how it was in the promo nav to begin with, and that's what ''I'' wanted to change -- but then, that would require extra name strings that are just "Shimmering Souvenir", for example, and Swood already said that was too much. The images were my way of compromising on that, considering the Competitive nav already did that, but then ''that's'' wrong too, so whatever, I can't do any of this properly. [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png|30px|link=User:ThatHatGuy]] 03:47, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
: Add them behind the [[VS_Saxton_Hale_Mode]], I suppose.--[[File:Tf medic setup charge.png|20px|link=User:BEUFK]]<font color="Blue">BEUFK</font> - [[Special:Contributions/BEUFK|Contributions]]-[[User_talk:BEUFK|Talk]] 10:49, 14 July 2023 (UTC)
 
::No, it’s unnecessarily segregating the lines spoken by one character. We do not have a Mann vs. Machine responses page consisting of nine classes’ worth of voicelines separate from their class response pages.
 
::People would expect to see the Scout’s VS Saxton Hale responses on the Scout responses page; likewise having a title text on the Scout responses TOC for the heading “VS Saxton Hale responses” redirecting to “See: VS Saxton Hale Mode#Responses#Scout” would be overcomplicating having all the Scout responses on one page. There can be a small hatnote about McGuinn under the heading. [[File:User_Upgrade_Signature.png|link=User:Upgrade]] 12:45, 14 July 2023 (UTC)
 
  
:::The difference between the MvM responses and these is that these are not the actual voice actors.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 12:47, 14 July 2023 (UTC)
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:::::: They are all the same just with a unique hex paint the MVM ones have been reused over and over, there is no model difference between them other than the paint, If the medals were "different" they would have unique models to go alongside them, but back on subject, theres so many of these damn things it would be nice to be able to filter them out entirely. <br>[[User:Cheddar|Cheddar]] ([[User talk:Cheddar|talk]]) 13:57, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
::::I think these should be added in their respective class pages, and separate like how it's on [[Soldier]], so, for example: "The Soldier was[1] voiced by the late Rick May. He was voiced by May and Nolan North in Expiration Date, and additional lines were voiced by {{code|insert_community_VA_here}} for the [[VS Saxton Hale Mode]]. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 14:11, 14 July 2023 (UTC)
 
  
::::: I believe we all agree that these additions are... something, but they are part of the game now and we shouldn't be trying to hide them away. This is a wiki.
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{{outdent|7}}
::::: Please move class responses to their respective pages and Saxton/Narrator lines to [[Versus Saxton Hale responses]]. — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] 21:23, 14 July 2023 (UTC)
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By "exactly the same", I meant all the MvM medals that share the same model but have a different paint applied. An average user doesn't care if the medal is pink or green, they are way more interested in the model itself. The same applies to the comp nav: we don't have an icon for every season of each tournament, only for different models.<br>
:::::: I'll start transcribing these and uploading them later today, most likely. — [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png|30px|link=User:ThatHatGuy]] [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Talk.png|30px|link=User talk:ThatHatGuy]] [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Contribs.png|30px|link=Special:Contributions/ThatHatGuy]] 15:10, 15 July 2023 (UTC)
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I personally don't see how extra strings are too much and I agree that the icons look way better than whatever is going on with the comp nav template. My point here is that this template currently is too big and has too much repetitive information to work as a navbox.<br>
::::::: [[VS Saxton Hale responses|Done.]] — [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png|30px|link=User:ThatHatGuy]] [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Talk.png|30px|link=User talk:ThatHatGuy]] [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Contribs.png|30px|link=Special:Contributions/ThatHatGuy]] 05:43, 16 July 2023 (UTC)
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Also, I know that it is common for us to get attached to our creations (in this case, the template), but suggested changes to a template are usual business. Please don't take it personally, your opinions always matter. — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] 14:06, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
  
== In regards to Vs. Saxton Hale gamemode: ==
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:If I remember correctly, the "too many strings" were in reference to another nav, where I suggested removing them and replacing them with links to the operation page's rewards section. There were a few medals for each operation with a link to the same section each time. Having too many strings was in reference to the promo nav, not the one we're talking about.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 14:40, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
  
So, the VS Saxton Hale mode is finally an official mode in the game. However, there are several points I would like to make regarding to existing articles and what should be done with them:
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:: So if it's suddenly not too much trouble to localize different name strings for use within this nav specifically, for reasons I won't pretend to understand, nor do I care to ask about further, I propose that if we absolutely must, we strip the pictures and the paint splats, and in the case of MVM operations, we have the link to the operation, and then within that category, plain-text names of just the medals, stripped of the operation name and years, when necessary. (That is, "Operation Galvanized Gauntlet Bejeweled Bounty 2023" becomes  "Bejeweled Bounty", and so on. Cleaner, easier to read, and you already get that it's supposed to be within that operation.
* Although I don't know all of them, it seems some weapons for the Mercenaries had some stats changed. For instance, it seems that hitting the Sandman ball on Hale's head will now stun him, instead of just applying a slow effect. Should this be added to the weapons pages, like how the [[Spy-cicle]] mentions a difference on Medieval mode? The [[Concheror]] and [[Cozy Camper]] also has additional info regarding to being used in Mann vs. Machine.
 
** However, I think the way this gamemode works is that the entire "code" is inside the map file, meaning that it's possible that stats MAY change depending on maps. I'm not 100% sure about this, though. If all current 4 maps have the same stats, however, it may be a bit too repetitive to include weapon changes for every page.
 
* As with the discussion above, there's several new voice lines for every mercenary, courtesy of community-Voice Actors. I still stand with my suggestion in adding an extra info in the Class' page mentioning "additional lines were recorded by VA for the VS Saxton Hale game mode", as I think it's the best approach.
 
* Lore-wise, should the "story" behind VS Saxton Hale be considered Canon or Non-Canon? (Gray Mann and Saxton Hale interaction, for instance). Unless there's confirmation by Valve, I think it should be considered Non-Canon.
 
* When doing Rock, Paper, Scissors against Hale, if a Mercenary wins, it will instantly kill Hale. While this may sound obvious as it's what happens with other opposing-team classes during normal game modes, I think it's unique enough that a boss with an absurd amount of health still follows the same principle.
 
** If so, should this information be added to the main Rock, Paper, Scissors page?
 
I might add more items later in future replies. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 17:29, 14 July 2023 (UTC)
 
:Additionally, some special taunts have different animations while playing as Saxton. Some are slight modifications of existing animations, while others seem to be more unique. I don't know if there should be an extra image for "Saxton Hale" on the Class gallery for such taunts, and if Hale himself should be featured in Taunt Video Demonstrations. Some special taunts, however, are "bugged" as it does not play any animations but the props still appear. I think any future special taunts added after the VSH game mode will be broken due to this. Considering Hale uses Heavy as a "base", it's possible some of Heavy's special taunts were changed, I'd have to check, however. But I have seen Schadenfreude taunt being different than Heavy's variation. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 16:29, 17 July 2023 (UTC)
 
::Furthermore, while I don't have video proof right now, the information on [[VS Saxton Hale]] mode that "No voice lines are present for identifying Saxton Hale as a disguised Spy; attempting to identify Hale as one will instead provoke the generic response." is not exactly only for Hale, but for all Heavies. If I were to guess, using the "Spy!" voice commands while targeting Heavies were disabled completely considering Saxton himself uses "Heavy" as a base, it was basically the reason why Pyrovision items were disabled considering they were causing Heavy voices to play instead. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 16:29, 17 July 2023 (UTC)
 
  
:re: weapons, I think it's fine to include them on the pages once we actually see what's gonna happen with these maps. If there's the possibiliy that it'll stay as a custom gamemode (meaning any map can have different weapon changes), I think it's best we note these changes on a separate page entirely (or simply in a table) that the individual weapon pages can refer to.
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:: I ''would'' fight for the pictures, but it's clear that's not about to happen for me, and it's best for me to give it up and take the bullet, like I always have to. I'll believe that my opinions always matter when they start being correct ones to have. — [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png|30px|link=User:ThatHatGuy]] 14:54, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
:re: voice lines, I think we've solved that and it's been added to the general page.
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::: ThatHatGuy I'm not against your template creation but I searched a little more and its being used with {{tl|Hat Nav}} so we need to decide which one we gonna use, because currently, they have the same contents. Given the opinions above, I think a more neutral solution would be to move the Hat Nav contents to these two templates, so they stay similar to each other. [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 18:35, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
:re: Lore, community-made lore (unless officially acknowledged by Valve) is never seen as canon. This is why the NPCs have a separate section, as this kind of stuff could easily clash with official lore.
 
:re: RPS, I'd say add it. The original VSH gamemode took a chunk of his health IIRC and not an instakill. Considering backstabs are also changed, this is good to mention on the VSH page (but not the RPS page).
 
:re: Animations, it's best to keep this on the VSH page instead of a separate page because Hale is not a class you can choose like the others.
 
:re: Heavy model base, feel free to add any findings of RED Heavy's animations/voice lines (including the Spy bug) to the Bugs section on VSH (with proof, of course).<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=Wiki Cap]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 16:50, 17 July 2023 (UTC)
 
  
== Holiday-sized updates and us ==
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:::: That didn't ''matter'' when some of those event pages, for '''years''', had both the Hat Nav and the Promo Nav on them. The Promo Nav, by definition, has the same stuff that's already on the Hat Nav. Community medals used to be listed individually on there too. Now all of a sudden, there's a ''new'' nav, that I made because Swood wanted to separate the Community Medals into their own page, and suddenly, that's something worthy of being dissected and put under a microscope.
  
Hi all!
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:::: Fix it how you all want. I've said my piece about it, but clearly I don't know what I'm doing. — [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png|30px|link=User:ThatHatGuy]] 00:53, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
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::::: closed given the recent discussion [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 02:26, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
  
With the release of the ''very exciting summer-situated full-on holiday-sized™'' summer update, I'd like to propose that we separate the Summer, Halloween, and Smissmas updates into their own category called ''seasonal updates''. Here's a draft: [[:Template:Major_Updates_Nav/Sandbox]] (in addition to revising the nav, we will also need to rework the [[Patches]] article and create new icons for these updates). <!--
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== Trivias without confirmations ==
# In case anyone asks: yes, we are allowed to create our own images.
 
-->
 
  
Currently, these updates are not classified as [https://www.teamfortress.com/history.php major updates], so we classify them as "content packs" (which contradicts {{tooltip|our own definition|[...] smaller updates that feature new content additions usually as promotional material for other games or events.}}), but I strongly believe that the term "content pack" is outdated and no longer accurately reflects the nature of these updates. By creating a separate category, we can avoid mislabeling them and provide a more precise representation of their content.
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Since recent policy change now requiring trivias to have linked confirmations from contributors, there are still many old items that have trivias based on speculations (especially items made by Valve which can't really be confirmed). What should be done with them? [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 09:07, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
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:Leave them, we'd have to clear out pretty much most trivia sections otherwise. Unless you find proof of the contrary, just leave them.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 11:02, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
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::What about [https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Crafty_Hair#Trivia this one]? A promo item that directly references a game from said promotion, but trivia is about completly different character. [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 08:06, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
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:::I believe it's a invalid trivia, though changing the name of character and game would be better compare to completely remove the trivia [[User:Profiteer|<font color="8470FF">Profiteer]] the tryhard ([[User talk:Profiteer|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Profiteer|contribute]])</font> 08:20, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
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::::"It is based on one of the male soldiers' hairstyles in the video game UFO: Enemy Unknown" in the first paragraph. [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 08:43, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
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:::::Yeah my bad, mention it 2 times is kind of surplus just remove it. [[User:Profiteer|<font color="8470FF">Profiteer]] the tryhard ([[User talk:Profiteer|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Profiteer|contribute]])</font> 09:03, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
  
Please leave your feedback and {{pro}} or {{con}} below '''before Jul 30'''. [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] 15:22, 17 July 2023 (UTC)
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::::::Promo items should have their reference stated in the intro, not Trivia. Feel free to remove, it is possible that the Crafty Hair is modelled after hair that is modelled after said character.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 12:24, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
  
:{{pro}} I think it should be an additional category (e.g. "Major Seasonal update" or "Major Holiday update"), I think the nav changes are good regardless.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=Wiki Cap]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 15:45, 17 July 2023 (UTC)
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== Reports/Missing template translations reporting erroneous data ==
  
::What about seasonal updates that were also major updates? I feel as if classifying them as seasonal updates only somewhat "belittles" them. - [[User:BrazilianNut|BrazilianNut]] ([[User talk:BrazilianNut|talk]]) 20:36, 17 July 2023 (UTC)
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It seems like a very [[Team_Fortress_Wiki:Reports/Untranslated_templates/fr|handy feature]] (as handy as the entire reports page), and oddly enough, it seems to report the same thing for all languages (34 templates), and according to the quick look I did, none of them report missing translations?<br>
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I don't know who would be able to fix this, if it's even broken to begin with, maybe [[User:Darkid|Darkid]]?<br>
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Do note that I didn't touch template translating very much in my time here, I looked up the line numbers using Notepad++. <span style="background:#393939;padding:2px 12px;font-family: TF2 Build;font-size: 1em;border-radius: 10px 10px 10px 10px;">[[User:Luno|Luno]] <span style="color:#FC0;letter-spacing:-2px">🪐🌕</span> [[User talk:Luno|<span style="color:#fff">Talk</span>]] <span style="color:#559655;letter-spacing:-2px">/</span> [[Special:Contributions/Luno|<span style="color:#fff">Contributions</span>]] <span style="color:#538AC5;letter-spacing:-2px">/</span> [[Team_Fortress_Wiki:Translation_progress/fr|<span style="color:#4d748b">T</span><span style="color:#fff">ea</span><span style="color:#ab4848">m</span>]]</span> 03:05, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
  
:::{{pro}} I'm in support of the idea, but as others have said, I think we should find some way to discuss major updates that were also released in a seasonal timeframe. Updates like Tough Break and the Mecha Update, which added sizeable gameplay-expanding content (new contract-based campaign/new Engineer robot) should still be listed as a major update in some capacity, rather than being taken out of that category solely because they released in December, and served as that year's holiday update slot. If a choice is to be made, I would rather specifically those two be in the major updates category. [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png|30px|link=User:ThatHatGuy]] [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Talk.png|30px|link=User talk:ThatHatGuy]] [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Contribs.png|30px|link=Special:Contributions/ThatHatGuy]] 23:07, 17 July 2023 (UTC)
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:For the [https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Template:Overheal_tool first result] it looks like fr is not declared in the {{Translation switching| line which probably leads to it showing up in that report. I'm going to guess it's the same for all the other ones. [[User:Jh34ghu43gu|Jh34ghu43gu]] ([[User talk:Jh34ghu43gu|talk]]) 03:10, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
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::I can take a look, thanks for the ping. [[User:Darkid|'''<span style="color: #db9c1f">Darkid</span>''']] « [[User talk:Darkid|<span style="color: #75735F">Talk</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Darkid|<span style="color: #BA0000">Contribs</span>]] » 03:10, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
  
:::: They will be listed under the "seasonal" category in the nav, but they'll remain listed as major (or not) on their respective pages (''Scream Fortress XIV'' would be titled "major seasonal update" and ''Smissmas 2022'' would be simply titled "seasonal update" for example).
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:::Damn, that was as quick as Dustbowl backcap, I sort of expected the "declare thing", but I doubt each of the members would forget to put it in, if that's the issue.
:::: I'd love to rant (more) about how bad our definition of "major update" is, but that's out of the scope of this topic. [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] 00:28, 18 July 2023 (UTC)
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:::I would also expect hundreds of entries with varying results for every lang, not 34. <span style="background:#393939;padding:2px 12px;font-family: TF2 Build;font-size: 1em;border-radius: 10px 10px 10px 10px;">[[User:Luno|Luno]] <span style="color:#FC0;letter-spacing:-2px">🪐🌕</span> [[User talk:Luno|<span style="color:#fff">Talk</span>]] <span style="color:#559655;letter-spacing:-2px">/</span> [[Special:Contributions/Luno|<span style="color:#fff">Contributions</span>]] <span style="color:#538AC5;letter-spacing:-2px">/</span> [[Team_Fortress_Wiki:Translation_progress/fr|<span style="color:#4d748b">T</span><span style="color:#fff">ea</span><span style="color:#ab4848">m</span>]]</span> 03:24, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
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::::Hmm, looks like I might've screwed up when I changed the regex on Feb 1st (or at least, page history shows a major diff there). Fixing that now, should be corrected tomorrow. [[User:Darkid|'''<span style="color: #db9c1f">Darkid</span>''']] « [[User talk:Darkid|<span style="color: #75735F">Talk</span>]] — [[Special:Contributions/Darkid|<span style="color: #BA0000">Contribs</span>]] » 03:59, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
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:::::+622,418 bytes coming through, seems about right! Looks like it's working again, thanks Darkid. <span style="background:#393939;padding:2px 12px;font-family: TF2 Build;font-size: 1em;border-radius: 10px 10px 10px 10px;">[[User:Luno|Luno]] <span style="color:#FC0;letter-spacing:-2px">🪐🌕</span> [[User talk:Luno|<span style="color:#fff">Talk</span>]] <span style="color:#559655;letter-spacing:-2px">/</span> [[Special:Contributions/Luno|<span style="color:#fff">Contributions</span>]] <span style="color:#538AC5;letter-spacing:-2px">/</span> [[Team_Fortress_Wiki:Translation_progress/fr|<span style="color:#4d748b">T</span><span style="color:#fff">ea</span><span style="color:#ab4848">m</span>]]</span> 01:52, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
  
:::::{{pro}} I do agree with the idea of the seasonal updates section as the recent Scream Fortress and Smissmas updates are a bit less than "major" in my opinion. However, Valve themselves are calling this Summer update a [https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/969772829291716619/1130654904411766814/image.png "Major Update"] and Smissmas and Scream Fortress a [https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/773915549927211048/1130659398864355389/image.png "Small update"], which is interesting. Does this mean that Summer 2023 is a "major update" while Smissmas and Scream Fortress are just "seasonal updates"? <br> [[User:Andrew360|<span style="font-family:TF2 Build; color:#038d3a ">Andrew360</span>]] [[File:Edit_icon.png|20px|link=Special:Contributions/Andrew360]] [[File:Speech typing.png|25px|link=User_talk:Andrew360]] [[File:Photo Badge Decal Example.png|15px|link=https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Special:ListFiles?limit=25&user=Andrew360&ilshowall=0]] 00:40, 18 July 2023 (UTC)
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== A technical request for "Used by" template ==
{{outdent|5}} So, where do we stand on this? It's probably been enough time since July 30th to make a decision on the matter. — [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png|30px|link=User:ThatHatGuy]] [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Talk.png|30px|link=User talk:ThatHatGuy]] [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Contribs.png|30px|link=Special:Contributions/ThatHatGuy]] 06:06, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
 
  
:"Seems like most, if not all, votes are in favour. So I say it's approved.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=Wiki Cap]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 12:55, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
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"Localized versions of this template are not necessary." Well, they actually are needed, due to inflection of words in some languages. For Polish, "<nowiki>{{Used by|all}}</nowiki>" and "<nowiki>{{Used by|Soldier|etc.}}</nowiki>" sound fine, but "<nowiki>{{Used by|all-except|</nowiki>" needs translation switching, as it sounds very bad when names of classes are not inflected. I don't know about other languages, but some may require it too. For Polish, here's how it should look to be grammatically correct (only for "<nowiki>{{Used by|all-except|</nowiki>"):
:: All right, I can push the template a little later, after I wake up. I took another look at Tark's proposed table, and I would argue that the [[Fall Event 2013]] should also be listed as a seasonal update, and not under the content packs category. It falls in line with most of the summer updates, which were also just cosmetic cases, and it of course, has an actual season in its name. — [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png|30px|link=User:ThatHatGuy]] [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Talk.png|30px|link=User talk:ThatHatGuy]] [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Contribs.png|30px|link=Special:Contributions/ThatHatGuy]] 14:28, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
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:Scout = Skauta
:::{{pro}} I think that until proven otherwise, Valve's strategy (and I've seen Youtubers say this too for example) is this seasonal-based rollout, that's influenced both by low staff for TF2 and how more modern shooters operate these days (e.g. "season passes"). That's the reality, similar to how TF2 absorbed item grades from CSGO. So until we get a mythical Heavy Update or whatever, by now we should adapt to TF2's ''de facto'' style. I don't see Valve doing "content packs" (as more promotional-focused updates) again soon, but who knows, we'll get to that bridge when we come to it.--[[File:Leaderboard class allclass.png|15px|link=]] [[User:Akolyth|<span style="font-size: 14px; font-family: Trebuchet MS">'''Akolyth'''</span>]] ([[User_talk:Akolyth|talk]]) 22:39, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
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:Soldier = Żołnierza
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:Pyro = Pyro
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:Demoman = Demomana
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:Heavy = Grubego
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:Enginner = Inżyniera
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:Medic = Medyka
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:Sniper = Snajpera
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:Spy = Szpiega
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[[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 14:07, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
  
== I can't receive email from others ==
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:These requests should really be on the template's talk page instead.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 14:13, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
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::Thanks. I've moved it there. [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 08:28, 15 February 2024 (UTC)
  
So far, there have been 2 users attempting to send me emails via the In-Wiki Email system. Though I can read their titles in the Alert function. But I can't read it's context in my mailbox.<br>
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== Where can I interact with the community? ==
I have inspected the Spamming Filter, and there is no letter here.--[[File:Tf medic setup charge.png|20px|link=User:BEUFK]]<font color="Blue">BEUFK</font> - [[Special:Contributions/BEUFK|Contributions]]-[[User_talk:BEUFK|Talk]] 13:07, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
 
  
:Yeah it's been broken randomly for a while now, not sure if we can fix it.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=Wiki Cap]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 14:15, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
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Is there a discord or something to interact with the community? Thank You.
  
== Template for unobtainable content? ==
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[[User:QS Quark|QS Quark]] ([[User talk:QS Quark|talk]]) 13:49, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
  
The [[Frontline Field Recorder]], [[Triclops]], [[Black Rose]], [[Tuxxy]], and many other items are no longer obtainable, for many reasons ranging from a shut-down or simply forgotten promotion, to glitches. Should there be a template for this to tack on top of the page to clearly signal to readers there's no way to normally get these items (outside of trading at best)? It would be easier too than having to manually type the disclaimer every time in a subtle part of the page. And IF said item does become available again, by some miracle, template can just be plucked out like nothing. I know it's a bold idea, and perhaps "loud" on the page, but I'd enjoy making it and see it as equal as templates clarifying beta content and the like.-[[File:Leaderboard class allclass.png|15px|link=]] [[User:Akolyth|<span style="font-size: 14px; font-family: Trebuchet MS">'''Akolyth'''</span>]] ([[User_talk:Akolyth|talk]]) 22:17, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
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:You can join the [[IRC]] if you want. There is no Discord (and we also won't make one).<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] {{!}} [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] {{!}} [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 13:59, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
  
:I don't think so, something like the Frontline Field Recorder shouldn't be on the list as it's a bug not a feature. The Tuxxy is still obtainable, but I think promotions are generally understood to end at some point. Perhaps [[Promotional items#Expired|this page]] suits your need?<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=Wiki Cap]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 22:22, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
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== April fool's? ==
  
:: Perhaps that user meant that the [[Saxxy]] is an "unobtainable" thing, given that they don't seem too eager to run the Saxxies again. I understand where Swood's coming from, in that promotions generally do have an expiry date; but I think what the original topic was getting at is, some items are permanently unobtainable, even outside of trading, because of external circumstances. As mentioned, the Black Rose is a good example: you can't get the item, because its associated video game has shut down. They're all semi-unusual states of affairs, but I still don't think they're notable enough to warrant a template, however. We've already got the expired availability-core string, and I think that fits. "Unobtainable," as far as the availability-core is concerned, means "was never obtainable."  — [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png|30px|link=User:ThatHatGuy]] [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Talk.png|30px|link=User talk:ThatHatGuy]] [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Contribs.png|30px|link=Special:Contributions/ThatHatGuy]] 06:55, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
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I've been absent a bit because of health issues lately, sorry, but I noticed there's no April Fools thing this year there? :(--[[File:Leaderboard class allclass.png|15px|link=]] [[User:Akolyth|<span style="font-size: 14px; font-family: Trebuchet MS">'''Akolyth'''</span>]] ([[User_talk:Akolyth|talk]]) 02:43, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
  
:::True, but I'd still say the Saxxy could return at any moment. At most I'd say a category like [[:Category:Unobtainable items]] could be added to some pages, but more people need to agree with that before doing it.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=Wiki Cap]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 11:47, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
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: Probably, yes. Since I didn't notice anything relate to April fools event other than the page itself (normally there will be someone create a April fools sandbox page before April fools event).[[User:Profiteer|<font color="8470FF">Profiteer]] the tryhard ([[User talk:Profiteer|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Profiteer|contribute]])</font> 03:45, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
::::ThatHatGuy, first of all I am so sorry I made a typo you misinterpreted, I meant the [[Tux]], not Saxxy haha; my brain must have blended the 2 as Tuxxy. Although I definitely agree with those points. As for Swood's proposal, I guess at least a category would be cool, although I believe still something more distinctive would be of interest. Unobtainable items, that whole sphere of defunct things, is interesting to many groups from traders (ironically) to people who watch YouTube channels like DefunctLand. There's a certain enticing mystery to lost things just as with Beta stuff. It's precious. I just think this category should have an easy way to see what's applicable beyond the string. (Edit: I just realized many [[Limited]] items may fall under this, but not all Limited items are unobtainable and vice versa)--[[File:Leaderboard class allclass.png|15px|link=]] [[User:Akolyth|<span style="font-size: 14px; font-family: Trebuchet MS">'''Akolyth'''</span>]] ([[User_talk:Akolyth|talk]]) 06:53, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
 
  
:::::I think a category is the best way to go, as some of the items that may be counted as unobtainable (e.g. Saxxy or Spycrab plushie) may be seen as unobtainable by a regular player, whereas the Wiki classifies them as still obtainable due to codes still being around and working. A list of items that are truly unobtainable ([[Black Rose]], SMNC items, etc.) would likely be a very small list and not really be worth it. I'd also struggle to find an actual place for this list.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=Wiki Cap]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 13:02, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
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::The only thing that was planned was a patch, no other efforts were made, unfortunately.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] {{!}} [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] {{!}} [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 08:17, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
::::::Yeah, that sounds nice. I welcome the category! I think Unobtainable is the best term already in use, for lack of a better one too. I never made a category before, up to you if you want to start it, I'll add.--[[File:Leaderboard class allclass.png|15px|link=]] [[User:Akolyth|<span style="font-size: 14px; font-family: Trebuchet MS">'''Akolyth'''</span>]] ([[User_talk:Akolyth|talk]]) 22:33, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
 
  
:::::::I think if you gather a list on a userpage somewhere first, we can see which ones are actually unobtainable and which ones might be ''technically'' still obtainable.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=Wiki Cap]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 22:37, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
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== TFC logo feedback ==
  
== Disambiguation proposal ==
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Hey folks,
  
Since we are replacing disambiguations with {{tl|item link}} slowly instead of regular links to make the work easier for translators, I propose we change how items and taunts are displayed on disambiguation pages entirely. It will automatically add the {{tl|item icon}} template as well as {{tl|item link}} template. This means it requires no additional translating (for both new and existing pages), and simply requires the replacement of "item link" with [[User:GrampaSwood/Disambig/Disambigentry|the template I made for this]] ([[User:GrampaSwood/Disambig/Disambigentry2|alternate template here]]). This template has an additional parameter for the size of the icon, which can be changed to be the same for every disambiguation page, but also be changed on a per-item basis.
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We're considering creating a special version of the [https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/skins/valve/wiki_logo.png?e0a71 wiki logo] for [[:Category:Team_Fortress_Classic|Classic]] pages because we think it would add a nice touch. You can check out our current iteration here: [https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/8/80/User_GrampaSwood_TFC_logo_wiki_small_alt_fixed_font_small.png logo] [https://i.imgur.com/uHb7rai.png example].
  
I think this would add value, because some users might have to load 4-5 pages to see the cosmetic they want to see, but with this change it would simply just be on the page itself.<br>
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This logo would only be visible on pages with the "(Classic)" suffix, so it shouldn't affect other types of pages (TF2 and QTF, in particular - we'll of course test it beforehand, similar to our current localized logos test).
I've created an example [[User:GrampaSwood/Disambig|here]], this is a copy paste from [[Instrument]] and can be compared to that. It may increase the length of pages (can be adjusted with the icon size, of course) but I think it would be worth it. I've also made [[User:GrampaSwood/Disambig2|a page]] with non-items and items mixed together (update: now features icons too). I don't think this is gonna be an overnight change if people agree, but I think it will be a beneficial one. Please leave your {{pro}}or {{con}}below.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=Wiki Cap]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 17:18, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
 
  
: Looks a bit cluttered, but the idea here is good. "Guitar Smash" in the example seems a bit out of place, but if we could standardize the images somehow, I think it would look much better. <!-- i personally prefer "[name] [image]" instead of "[image] [name]" :^) -->
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But what I'm really here for is to gather feedback. Do you have any strong opinions ''against it''? Maybe a new design in mind? Please let us know! — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] 14:42, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
: Could we also consider translating the text? (not reeeeeally necessary as these disamb pages are translated on an "as-needed" basis, but if we're already upgrading them...) — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] 21:05, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
 
  
::I thought about something similar, as most of them are mostly filled with "a [cosmetic/taunt/etc.] for [class]". Only issue would be that some languages can't standardise this text. I tried to standardise the intro of a cosmetic only to realise the article changes (de/het) in Dutch so that would need to be more dynamic. I've added an alternative based on the comment to those pages, using [name] [image] instead of [image] [name].<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=Wiki Cap]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 21:40, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
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:{{Pro}} I like it, for obvious reasons. I've been using it myself as a subtitute for the regular logo for a while now, and I've grown quite used to it, so I can personally say that you'll get used to it even if it looks a bit odd from the start.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] {{!}} [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] {{!}} [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 14:45, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
  
:::{{Pro}} I like this idea. I'm trying to see how can we blend the taunt Guitar Smash with the other taunts, since it does not have an official taunt icon... perhaps instead of using an item icon, why not using the image from the infobox? Since they follow a format of "Taunt XXX.png", perhaps it'd be easier to change the template. [[User:Yossef|<font color="DB9C1F">'''Yossef'''</font>]] [[User talk:Yossef|<font color="DB9C1F">'''Talk'''</font>]] 05:37, 22 August 2023 (UTC)
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::{{Pro}} I like it too, I feel like it adds to the fact that this is the '''Team Fortress''' wiki, not just the Team Fortress '''2''' wiki, in a way. Personally, I don't think I would have any negative opinions against it, since a lot of times you're focused more on an article than the top left corner of the screen. Either way, I feel like it's a welcome, if small, touch to the wiki. [[User:JupiterSphere|<span style="color:#ffbb57">JupiterSphere</span>]] ♡ ( ◡‿◡ *) ⊱✿⊰ [[User talk:JupiterSphere|<span style="color:#b97ecf">Talk To Me!</span>]] ⊱✿⊰ 14:51, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
  
::::Currently, the image on there is the infobox image. The item icon for it [[:File:Item icon Guitar Smash.png|simply redirects]] to it. It's used in several different places, so changing that would be a no-no imo. I think we can omit taunt kills from having an image entirely, but we can also use the kill icon instead. Not sure how the template would work, however, I suppose an image-override parameter could be made.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=Wiki Cap]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 06:26, 22 August 2023 (UTC)
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:::{{Pro}} [[File:Cm heavy rankup 06.mp3]] [[User:Mediarch|<font color="ec5c69">'''Mediarch'''</font>]] [[File:User Mediarch PFP.png|25px]][[User:Mediarch|<font color="#ff66cc"> ♥ </font>]][[User talk:Mediarch|<font color="ec5c69">'''Talk'''</font>]][[User:Mediarch|<font color="#ff66cc"> </font>]][[Special:Contributions/Mediarch|<font color="ec5c69">'''My Edits'''</font>]] 17:02, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
  
:::::{{pro}} So long as we can achieve visual consistency for the icons, then I'm pretty much in favor, and perhaps change the icon size just a tad. I think it's rather extravagant to put in the effort of auto-translating the text, given that it wouldn't necessarily be an easy task, and simply because there is so little text to translate anyway. — [[User:Wookipan|<span style="color:#db9c1f">'''Wookipan'''</span>]] <small>([[User_talk:Wookipan|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Wookipan|contribs]])</small> 19:59, 22 August 2023 (UTC)
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:::: I see no issues with the logo. <br>[[User:Cheddar|<font color="#193940">'''Cheddar'''</font>]] [[User talk:Cheddar|<font color="#193940">'''Talk'''</font>]] 19:44, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
  
::::::{{pro}} I'm a tad late to this discussion, but I'm definitely in favor of this too. I really like the visual part of the item icons, to help people understand what they might have been looking for. Especially if you've seen something in-game, and are now looking for what it's called, I think it'll be a big help; though I absolutely prefer the one with the images to the left of the text, after the bullet point, in regards to your example page. — [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png|30px|link=User:ThatHatGuy]] [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Talk.png|30px|link=User talk:ThatHatGuy]] [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Contribs.png|30px|link=Special:Contributions/ThatHatGuy]] 11:11, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
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::::: I've enabled the logo for logged-in users. Please let me know if you find any issues.
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::::: If everything goes smoothly, I plan to push it sometime in July, along with translations. — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] 21:06, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
  
:::::::{{pro}} I go in for this idea, and I believe that the item icon should be put to the left of the item. In addition to that, I think it would be more consistent if there is an icon before the name of each category. --祝编安/Best Regards<br><font color="Blue"> ||| [[User:BEUFK|BEUFK the nonsense]]</font> - [[Special:Contributions/BEUFK|contrib.]] - [[User_talk:BEUFK|have a talk]] 12:06, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
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== Zombies,Saxton, and V-Script Classes ==
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(if it doesn’t appear, this is signed by Deluxe Fortress, Saturday May 18 2024)
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(Skip first paragraph to skip the bone and directly to the meat)
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In the official Zombie Infection game mode, the classes don’t act the same as zombies. They act slightly or completely different from what they were or are from abilities to their role in the team. This ranges from exaggerating their features (such as scout, who has even less health for holy speed) to heavy and engineer (heavy becoming a building buster; engineer becoming a building buster ) and have different stats alongside their main abilities, mainly the (almost) universal 25+ max health increase. They each act very differently and uniquely compared to their human counterparts.
  
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So my suggestion is to make 9 pages for each of the zombie once mercenaries because of how differently they act and what makes them tick. This is a bit much and a bit of points can be bounced back and forth if this is reasonable or not. I can see the point I made first, zombies should have their own pages because of how differently they act. But then again, listing all the stats and finding a zi_ Zombie image that can be turned a full 360• will be extremely tedious. However, same can be said for the first basic human 9 classes.
  
:Seems like most people are in favour of [image] [text] (I also asked some people in a TF2-related Discord, which also favoured [image] [text]), now the question is for icon size and what to use for non-item entries. The default is 48px as of right now, but that can be changed using a parameter (the default is also independent of the Icon item template, so the default can be changed here too). As for non-item images, I simply propose we have an icon-override argument where any suitable image can be selected. I've updated the template and added an example of non-item images [[User:GrampaSwood/Disambig2|here]], icons are obviously just ones I quickly gathered and not meant to actually be the ones used for these. Feel free to edit these icons to better fitting ones or edit the size of the icons if you deem it necessary.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=Wiki Cap]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 11:15, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
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If the first point is made or not, I’d like to bring up the rest of V-Script and VSH. Saxton Hale, though taking heavy as a place holder, is 100% not heavy, he is Saxton Hale. So should he get his own page separate from the Comic Illustration page and striped directly from the VSH page to have his own page? It’d be easier for navigating and the Disambiguation page would have to be updated, but I can see it being better as its own page so details like Hammer Units Per Blank can be listed and trivia can be separated and therefor shortened if needed. This would require more work, but I think this is more important than the zombies since he’s basically the 11th class.
::I think 48px is a tad too small, I tested it out with 64px, and I think it looked a little better. It spaced out the lines more noticeably, but I think the key here is utilizing the icons to the best that they can be. For reference, a backpack icon is displayed at 90px, and item icons are usually displayed at 100px, when showcased on tables. Not that we should necessarily aim for parity with that when we're focusing on a bullet point list, but I think we can get away with larger than 48px. — [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png|30px|link=User:ThatHatGuy]] [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Talk.png|30px|link=User talk:ThatHatGuy]] [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Contribs.png|30px|link=Special:Contributions/ThatHatGuy]] 14:54, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
 
  
== Change to map developer credits ==
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My 3rd point is community maps. Certain maps like Crasher and CP_Carrier have the classes be drastically different and could have their own page, but is definitely not necessary in my eyes.
  
''Please, see [[Help talk:Style guide/Maps#Change to map developer credits]]''
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My final point is if we get a new gamemode or map that introduces a new class,mechanic,items, or maybe Ms. Pauling in the future illustrated in VSH, do they deserve their own page (or fuse pages, as I could see the comic and gameplay version being fused), get their own content pages?
  
[[User:Mikado282|<span style="font-family: Arial"><font color="db9c1f">''' M I K A D O 282 '''</font></span><span style="font-family: Arial "><font color="00ff00"> <small>⊙</small>⊙⊙⊙⊙<small>⊙ ⊙⊙  ⊙⊙</small></font></span>]] </small> <!-- --
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Thank you for reading, sorry it was long, from Deluxe Fortress [[User:DeluxeFortress|DeluxeFortress]] ([[User talk:DeluxeFortress|talk]]) 03:14, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
--> <small> ([[User:Mikado282/Contact Mikado282|Contact Mikado282 (SM)]]) | ([[Special:Contributions/Mikado282|'''''contribs''''']]) ([[User:Mikado282/Help Wanted!|'''''Help Wanted!''''']]) </small> 01:17, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
 
  
== Question about Web Archive links ==
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:Just asking, anyone know how to get to the point faster? I kinda need that skill right now and the Goliath of text above me kinda concerns me cause I don’t want to put a dang TDA about what an optimal mask is and why it says that on pyros “nose”, and suggestions are appreciated, ty [[User:DeluxeFortress|DeluxeFortress]] ([[User talk:DeluxeFortress|talk]]) 04:18, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
  
In an article, when adding a <code>web.archive.org</code> link to replace dead links, is it necessary to add <code>(archive)</code> after the text?<br/>[[User:Tiagoquix|<font color="#1e90ff">Tiagoquix</font>]] ([[User talk:Tiagoquix|<font color="#19c819">talk</font>]]) 15:37, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
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:{{Con}} I don't think this is a good idea, as game mode-specific info should be on the game mode itself. On the game mode articles right now it's already adequately covered and there isn't nearly as much information on these classes as there is on the regular classes. Regular classes have many unique weapons, unique personalities, many cosmetics, an associated storyline, unique gameplay aspects, etc. For the Zombie classes they would purely be a description of their abilities and the shared universal changes. Looking at the table on [[Zombie Infection]], this would amount to an article that's taken up more by pictures than by actual information.
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:As for Saxton Hale, he would have a bit more information but it would largely be [[Saxton Hale]] with the information from [[Versus Saxton Hale]] merged into a single section. I don't think merging the articles is a good idea, personally.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] {{!}} [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] {{!}} [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 10:01, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
  
:Not necessarily, I usually do this if it's a non-image link.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=Wiki Cap]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 16:00, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
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::I can fully see your point, I don’t have anything to say after that, but I still want other people to reply so I can see everyone’s opinions. Thank you GrampaSwood.
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::[[User:DeluxeFortress|DeluxeFortress]] ([[User talk:DeluxeFortress|talk]]) 18:10, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
  
== Should custom "Item icons" still be a thing on the Wiki? ==
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:::{{Con}} I also agree with what GrampaSwood said. I think the specific stats and what makes them tick seems to be covered in the main [[Zombie infection]] page. Anything not mentioned in the Zombie infection page could be covered in a little more detail in the [[Community Zombie Infection strategy]] page. I think it's better to keep all the gamemode specific information concentrated instead of spreading it out across a bunch of seperate pages that wouldn't have a ton of detail to go over. Same thoughts apply to Saxton Hale.  [[User:Mediarch|<font color="ec5c69">'''Mediarch'''</font>]] [[File:User Mediarch PFP.png|25px]][[User:Mediarch|<font color="#ff66cc"> ♥ </font>]][[User talk:Mediarch|<font color="ec5c69">'''Talk'''</font>]][[User:Mediarch|<font color="#ff66cc"> ♥ </font>]][[Special:Contributions/Mediarch|<font color="ec5c69">'''My Edits'''</font>]] 18:31, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
  
"Item icons" refers to the angled images for cosmetic items, weapons, and action items. Angled Item icons are also known as "Shugo style", due to one of the earliest creators with this angle was made by someone called "Shugo". Item icons differ from backpack icons as they were made to be angled and consistent, while backpack icons are "all over the place" with no consistency whatsoever. However... the angled images aren't actually "official" content, they are hand-made in the model viewer. I'd like to point out a couple things and discuss if angled Item icons should really still be a thing on the Wiki or not. I will be listing pros and cons, and a lengthier discussion at the end.<br><br>
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:::Remember to indent your replies with {{code|:}}, and also to add your signature after your message rather than before.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] {{!}} [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] {{!}} [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 18:13, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
'''"Unchanged" Item icons / Backpack icons ([[:File:Backpack Cool Warm Sweater.png|Example]]):'''
 
* {{pro|They are official content.}}
 
* {{pro|They are easier to look for on cosmetic tables, as people looking for Wiki information may see the item in-game with the default icon instead and try to find the item in question based on the icon.}}
 
* {{pro|There's no need to constantly make angled Item icons as there will always be new cosmetics added to the game. The "Shugo style" project is basically an indefinite project because of it.}}
 
* {{con|They are all over the place with no consistency whatsoever, and look off in cosmetic tables on "class" pages.}}
 
** {{neutral|Inconsistencies can include: Being on the BLU team instead of RED, using an earlier texture instead of the one in the actual model, have fire overlay problems, and so on.}}
 
* {{con|Strategy pages and crafting sections wouldn't look as pretty with the default icons, due to their lack of consistency.}}<br><br>
 
'''Angled Item icons / Shugo Style icons ([[:File:Item icon Cool Warm Sweater.png|Example compared to the same item from above's example]]:'''
 
* {{pro|They look consistent and look nice with most of them having the same angle.}};
 
* {{pro|They look exceptionally nice on "Crafting" sections, as well the cosmetic tables for "class" pages. (See: [[Basic Scout strategy]] and [[Black Box#Crafting]]).}}
 
* {{con|It's a never-ending project in making them considering new items will always be added in Major Updates / Content Packs.}}
 
* {{con|Some items are difficult to make "Angled" variants if they have way too many "elements" in different parts of the player model. See [[:File:Item icon Gaiter Guards.png]] for a good example.}}
 
** {{neutral|It's hard to see what the item is actually about in the cosmetics page due to being very far away. Older items have some custom model placements, like [[:File:Item icon Honcho's Headgear.png]], but doing that for certain items would provide too much work.}}
 
* {{con|They can be confusing for new players as they might be looking for the standard default backpack icon on the cosmetic tables, and instead they look at completely non-official icons made in a different style.}}<br><br>
 
'''Reasons why Item icons should probably be turned back to default:'''
 
* Default icons are official content, while Angled / Shugo style ones aren't;
 
* There won't be a huge workload for every update to make these icons, and some items are simply too difficult to keep within the same angled style.
 
* Non-official backpack icons can feel "weird" seeing for players trying to find an item based on their backpack icon.
 
  
'''Other suggestions:'''
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::: I’m still new to this, thank you regardless and have a good morning, or evening, or night I don’t know your time zone. [[User:DeluxeFortress|DeluxeFortress]] ([[User talk:DeluxeFortress|talk]]) 18:33, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
* Perhaps new file names could be made so we have "separate" files for these angled icons to use in certain instances. Item icons should be the default Backpack icons but in 512x384 instead of 512x512. For example, these angled icons does indeed look really nice on Strategy Pages, as well the "Crafting" section of pages, so perhaps a new file name like "File:Angled icon Black Box.png". Using default backpack icons on these would look incredibly off and not pretty.<br>
 
  
Please let me know what you guys think below. For me personally, I do think that these icons do look off since this is an OFFICIAL Wiki, and these icons are not official. Sure, not everything on the Wiki itself is official as it comes directly from the game (HLMV renders and Painted Variants are made by Wiki contributors), however, I think this case is different. HLMV renders and Painted Variants still do, in fact, use the default Valve models and textures from the player model and item being shown. Therefore, I think all Item icons should be reverted to their default Backpack counterparts.
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::: To Mediarch, I couldn’t see your reply because of internet issues so here I am now. I completely did not think about the strategy pages, I just remembered those as the competitive players haven. Thank you, and also, should the Editing:Style apply to comments, replies, etc? What I mean by that is “lol,ty,r u ok”..etc in replies like these?
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:::[[User:DeluxeFortress|DeluxeFortress]] ([[User talk:DeluxeFortress|talk]]) 18:40, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
  
Yes, I was the person who have made nearly every single Item icon in an Angled style (ThatHatGuy has also made several for Tournament Medals). I simply decided to continue the work that was already "left" by older Wiki contributions that used to upload the TF2B iconset here. The project on TF2B stopped around the [[Scream Fortress 2013]] update due to its abundance of items that got added. Back then, there weren't too many policies set in stone on the Wiki (it was the era where HLMV renders had unofficial textures, such as the "TF2TIP" one), so I think there should be a discussion in regards to this, and, it's okay if all of these Item icons I have made do get reverted (and I mean ALL of them). They shouldn't be deleted, though, simply reverted to their backpack icon state, or, moved to the "Angled" idea to be used in some sections of the Wiki, but perhaps only for Weapons (and cosmetics that can be received from crafting). Some items, however, already had this Angled Style uploaded on their "Item icon" files as I made them as soon as the update dropped, so the backpack icon in 512x384 would be needed to be uploaded instead of just reverting. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 00:14, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
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::::No, the style guides don't apply to the discussions, you can write however you want as long as you remain friendly. See [[Help:Discussion]] for the guidelines instead.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] {{!}} [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] {{!}} [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 18:44, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
: Personally, I like the Shugo icon style the way we have it now; both for its consistency -- especially with Swood's new disambiguation page proposal using item icons to show people what the contents of the page refer to, and the fact that they ''are'' different from backpack icons. It always felt like a strange thing to me, to have to upload a second version of the backpack icon file just because its dimensions had to be different.
 
: I'd also like to put forward that some backpack icons '''aren't''' representative of what the item looks like in-game. Most of the custom painted community medals that get added in lately have backpack icons that are painted incorrectly, and don't show how the painted medal actually looks when players wear it in-game, the way that Shugo style item icons do, since they're direct shots from the model viewer. (Though as the person who does all of those icons, I'm probably biased.) — [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png|30px|link=User:ThatHatGuy]] [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Talk.png|30px|link=User talk:ThatHatGuy]] [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Contribs.png|30px|link=Special:Contributions/ThatHatGuy]] 10:50, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
 
  
: {{c|-|Disagree}}. Personally, I like having the backpack and item icon be different. Some backpack icons can look a bit awkward (the example you showed is perfect, there's a cut-off Engineer that looks really bad imo. The icon looks really good in comparison). Soon, with the new way we're gonna do disambiguations, these consistent icons will greatly help in making it look good. I'm not sure what the issue is with not being "official", because they are still the models used in-game and they still look the same. It's fine if there are custom angles as long as we also offer the backpack icons somewhere. Plenty of stuff has to be made with every new item anyways (Infobox renders, painted variants, gallery renders, etc.) so these item icons aren't that much of an issue imo.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=Wiki Cap]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 11:05, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
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::::: Thank you (for the third time today), I have now read [[Help:Discussion]] and I’ll look into the help pages for answers instead of discussion. Seriously cannot thank you enough today
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[[User:DeluxeFortress|Dell]] ([[User talk:DeluxeFortress|talk]]) 19:21, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
  
:: Thanks for the responses. Well, one of the things I wanted to ask about all of this is because I thought about revamping the Item icons I have done sometime (when? I don't know), and I did not want to continue do all of them without a proper discussion regarding them. I'd like to add "$nocull" materials to the classes .vmts, so the area of the collar doesn't look "empty" (can be see on the same example I gave). This was a thing already in older Shugo icons that I completely didn't notice. We also use "$nocull" in painted variants, with some rare exceptions ([[Fancy Dress Uniform]]).
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== Homewrecker and The Zombie Engineer ==
  
:: And, I'd also like to do them in a higher quality (majority of them I made by taking a shot from HLMV, then resizing it down, newer ones I did differently by having a semi-transparent Rainmeter skin of "safe zones" with the proper dimensions where I should zoom out), proper size (the Scattergun and Australium Scatergun icons are not in the same size), and some better icons for some items ([[:File:Item icon Smokey Sombrero.png]] is a good example, it should show the other side due to the bullets, and the whole icon just look off).
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In [[Zombie Infection]], the [[Engineer]] has the ability to throw and EMP grenade that can disable [[Sentry Gun| Sentries]] to help his team push through human defenses. However, the [[Homewrecker]] and the [[Neon Annihilator]] can destroy [[Sapper|Sappers]]. So can the 2 melees destroy the Engineer’s grenades or is the Homewrecker a direct downgrade in Zombie Infection as no [[Spy|Spies]] can use the Sapper? The main reason I’m asking this is because I was going to add a strategy for the Neon and I didn’t want to edit the main strategy I was going to put and have to put the possible destroying grenades mechanic after, where I’d be going back to the edit I just made and changing it to add another. To put in simple terms, I’ve 2 strategies for a weapon, I know I can put 1, but not the other, so I went here to see if anyone knew the answer to this question here. I’m guessing “probably not”, but I don’t want to fully shut down the possibility and have to edit an edit which I learned was unfavorable. Sorry this was long.
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[[User:DeluxeFortress|Dell]] ([[User talk:DeluxeFortress|talk]]) 00:01, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
  
:: Some icons I may approach differently. The Digit Divulger, for instance, probably doesn't need to show the entirety of Scout's body, and can probably be done similar to how I revamped the Falconer one a couple years later. I think icons like the Honcho's Headgear will be a lot more difficult to do, though, as I have limited knowledge on Blender.
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:Seeing as the EMP Grenade is not a Sapper, it's safe to assume they can't be used to destroy it. Also, be careful with spaces in front of talk page entries, as they put the whole thing in a box with may mess with formatting (e.g. indents can't be used).<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] {{!}} [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] {{!}} [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 10:18, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
  
:: Lastly, for items that attach to player models, they are made using the "Gray Mannequin Bodygroups" files. These are unofficial player models that let you disable specific parts of the model. I'm mostly sure these are also used in some backpack icons that are in the game right now. This comes with a caveat however, as there's a history of model recompilation on player models always not looking the same as the vanilla models. Due to the nature of these icons being small, and these differences being hard to notice, it shouldn't matter very much, though. I just wanted to point out one last "unofficial" thing. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 15:45, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
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== #savetf2 ==
  
::: I'm of the opinion that we should be in the mindset of presenting things as clearly and as cleanly as possible; regardless of whether or not that involves having to modify things a little. We ''already'' do things like remove jigglebones from cosmetics, or use special character models that remove whole parts of their body, to get clean shots for painted variants, and as mentioned, we're about to make good use out of the rotation of the Shugo icons for a nice visual cohesion in disambiguation pages.
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Deer wiki admins. there is a petition going around supporting #savetf2 on the website save.tf. I think this wiki should support this petition by advertising the site on the main page I think this would help the petition a lot and by proxy help TF2 in general a lot so if the admins (or whoever edits the main page) were to do so I would be very happy. Yours truly [[User:Manman24|Manman24]] ([[User talk:Manman24|talk]]) 00:44, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
  
::: I agree with Swood that item icons are definitely allowed to be styled differently, so long as the backpack icons are preserved somewhere as well; and we already do that in the loadout infobox panels. I think that your proposed additions to item icons are perfectly all right, especially considering some official assets do indeed already use the mannequin models; so much so that it's a standard feature in TFMV.  
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:I feel as though this isn't neccessary. Whilst it is a nice sentiment, it doesn't really have a place in the wiki. Specifically, not promoted at the Main Page, or anything that is high traffic. What you can do, however, is promote it on your userpage to show your support! Cheers — [[User:Jestie|jestie.]] [[File:Beggar's Bazooka.png|30px|link=User:Jestie]] [[User talk:Jestie|Talk]] [[File:Speech voice.png|25px|link=User talk:Jestie]] 02:33, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
  
::: In short, so long as we can present something as neatly as we can, and try to represent the item to the best of our ability, I personally see no qualms with having to modify things to get there; it's a larger thing than item icons themselves -- it's a process that we already do, in pursuit of consistency and a nice visual style in presentation, which I think benefits us. — [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png|30px|link=User:ThatHatGuy]] [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Talk.png|30px|link=User talk:ThatHatGuy]] [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Contribs.png|30px|link=Special:Contributions/ThatHatGuy]] 23:44, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
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: Hello! We appreciate the invitation, but participating in this petition as a group goes against our [[Team_Fortress_Wiki:Policies#Community_engagement|Community engagement policy]]. That said, all wiki members are free to support community activities personally, as long as it doesn't imply official endorsement from the wiki.
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: Thank you for understanding. [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] 03:23, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
  
: {{c|-|Disagree}} Echoing pretty much everything GrampaSwood said. I'm also not sure how the icons being a never-ending project is a problem worth specifically calling out as a major reason for removing them—isn't this entire wiki a never-ending project? Making an icon for an item doesn't take that much more time than, say, putting together a gallery of painted item images does.
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== wav files downloading instead of opening in new tab in Firefox ==
  
: Regarding revamping icons, I've actually been working on redoing all of the old Shugo icons from scratch as a side project recently, since I wanted to fill in holes in item icons but lost the original source files I used to make the icons back in 2012/2013. Among other things, I'm fixing issues such as newer variants of weapons (like the aforementioned Scattergun and Australium Scattergun) having inconsistent lighting/scaling from their base versions. It should, hopefully, take care of outstanding concerns regarding consistency within the Shugo iconset. If there's anything else I should be aware of regarding uploading this set of redone icons to the Wiki, please let me know. -- [[User:Reahan|Rea]] - ([[User_talk:Reahan|Talk]]) 08:05, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
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There seems to be an issue with wav files in Firefox. Check [https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1450837 this post]. It seems to be an issue only with wav files. For mp3 files it works as usual · [[User:Ashe|<font color="DB9C1F">Ashe</font>]] ([[User talk:Ashe|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 17:51, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
  
== Community MVM Perpetual Content Creator Medals ==
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:I can confirm, as a Firefox user, this does happen. .mp3 files have the native player, so I'm not sure what the issue is.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] {{!}} [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] {{!}} [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 17:53, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
  
I've been handling the articles for community Mann vs. Machine campaigns for a while now, and up to a point, each campaign had an individual medal for content creators, only used in that single campaign; so I included it in the list of medals featured in it. Lately, both community groups have instead restricted themselves to a single medal for content creators, given out for every operation their group presents going forward.
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== Allowing use of certain images for a Fandom Wiki ==
  
So here's my query: should we continue to list the perpetually distributed content creation medals in the medal designs, painted variants and style sections of the articles for campaigns where they're distributed? Or, should we merely say "content creators for this campaign were given this medal" in a campaign article's Rewards section, and leave it at that? The affected articles would be:
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Hi, I made this account a few days ago mainly for this, but I run a [https://the-definitive-action-figurepedia.fandom.com/wiki/The_Definitive_Action_Figure-Pedia_Wiki Action-Figure-related wiki] on Fandom, and I've been wanting to make a page based on the Neca products (figures, plushies) & ThreeA/ThreeZero figures for Team Fortress 2. I bring this up because I'd like to include images of the actual in-game cosmetic items you receive with the figures, and was wondering if I could be granted permission to use the images of those cosmetics from here. (I.E, the [[Brigade Helm]] & [[Respectless Rubber Glove]] cosmetics that come with the [[NECA|Blu & Red Neca Pyro]]'s)
  
'''Auspicious Automaton Assembler's Accolade'''
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I'd also like to add that my pages would not be copies of the ones here, I'm fully against Plagiarism & any act of it, and I would gladly note on the file summaries that the images come from here, and include the site as part of a "special thanks" list I feature on the main page for people who've assisted/contributed in helping my site (If wanted). Thank you for yout time, [[User:Aiden the ToyManiac|Aiden the ToyManiac]] ([[User talk:Aiden the ToyManiac|talk]]) 21:43, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
* [[Operation Binary Blackout]]
 
* [[Operation Peculiar Pandemonium]]
 
* [[Operation Anniversary Annihilation]]
 
* [[Operation Last Laugh]]
 
* [[Operation Voltaic Violence]]
 
  
'''Potato of Labor'''
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:See our [[Team Fortress Wiki:Terms of Use|Terms of Use]] for the license used on images. Generally, we allow usage of our images freely (but if you transfer them from Wiki to Wiki it would be nice if you gave credit where you got the image from. Link to the specific file).<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] {{!}} [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] {{!}} [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 21:47, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
* [[User:ThatHatGuy/Sandbox|Operation Galvanized Gauntlet]]
 
  
To reiterate, if voted to be removed from the campaign's featured medals, we would still mention that the medals were ''given out'' during these campaigns, but the change would direct users to that medal's specific article, should they wish to learn more about it. — [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png|30px|link=User:ThatHatGuy]] [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Talk.png|30px|link=User talk:ThatHatGuy]] [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Contribs.png|30px|link=Special:Contributions/ThatHatGuy]] 11:05, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
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:Of course, I'd be glad to, and Thank you, It's greatly appreciated. I shall note the site on the image files & on the pages/main page. Thank you for your time, [[User:Aiden the ToyManiac|Aiden the ToyManiac]] ([[User talk:Aiden the ToyManiac|talk]]) 05:49, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
  
:If they end up being the same every time, I think we should link to the individual pages rather than have the variants, styles, etc. repeatedly there.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=Wiki Cap]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 11:33, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
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== Allweapons Nav follow-up ==
  
:: That's what I was thinking, yeah. I was already considering cutting them from campaign pages, because they're not technically a reward for those specific campaigns, in the same way that all the other medals listed in the pages are, and that content creator medals used to be. I've created a [https://wiki.tf/d/3501789 before] and [https://wiki.tf/d/3502000 after] showcase, to show how it would look for the Potato of Labor. Note that the page for the medal is still mentioned and linked to; I think that this way looks cleaner, myself, and focuses more on medals specifically awarded for interacting with their respective campaigns. — [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png|30px|link=User:ThatHatGuy]] [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Talk.png|30px|link=User talk:ThatHatGuy]] [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Contribs.png|30px|link=Special:Contributions/ThatHatGuy]] 12:57, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
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Hi everyone, I updated this template not long ago to be more user-friendly (as previously discussed). Given that it uses a format not found elsewhere, [[User:Mgpt/Sandbox#nav|I modified it]] to align with the general format used in other navigation templates - it also matches the Weapons page, which I hadn't noticed before.
  
::: {{c|+|Support in removing the medal images in favor of redirecting to medal pages}} <br> I agree that the medal images should be removed from the campaign pages and instead have a redirect to a medal page like you said. It would make the pages less cluttered and it would overall look cleaner. <br> [[User:Andrew360|<span style="font-family:TF2 Build; color:#038d3a ">Andrew360</span>]] [[File:Edit_icon.png|20px|link=Special:Contributions/Andrew360]] [[File:Speech typing.png|25px|link=User_talk:Andrew360]] [[File:Photo Badge Decal Example.png|15px|link=https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Special:ListFiles?limit=25&user=Andrew360&ilshowall=0]] 23:07, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
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P.S. Keep in mind that this format is used everywhere. I'm not creating anything new, just aiming for consistency . [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 00:58, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
  
::::{{pro}} '''Support'''. - [[User:BrazilianNut|BrazilianNut]] ([[User talk:BrazilianNut|talk]]) 23:23, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
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:I think I still prefer the current nav over the new one.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] {{!}} [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] {{!}} [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 01:06, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
  
:::::{{Pro}} A little late to the party, but I agree. [[User:Yossef|<font color="DB9C1F">'''Yossef'''</font>]] • [[User talk:Yossef|<font color="DB9C1F">'''Talk'''</font>]] 05:30, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
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== Melee page ==
  
== Valve Employee user page protection request ==
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I've created a new page [[User:GrampaSwood/Melee|here]]. It intents to document the melee system, as we don't have one, but we do for [[Hitscan]] and [[Projectiles]]. Currently, this is just a [[Melee|redirect to the Weapons page]], which doesn't explain anything about how the melee system actually works.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] {{!}} [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] {{!}} [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 11:49, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
  
Hey, could someone protect [[User:Greuben]] so that only staff members can edit the page? Thanks in advance.<br/>[[User:Tiagoquix|<font color="#1e90ff">Tiagoquix</font>]] ([[User talk:Tiagoquix|<font color="#19c819">talk</font>]]) 12:32, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
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:I think this looks rather good, I'd say something like this should have been done a while ago as the only somewhat "in-depth" explanation on melee weapons is their damage charts. <br>[[User:Cheddar|<font color="#193940">'''Cheddar'''</font>]] [[User talk:Cheddar|<font color="#193940">'''Talk'''</font>]] 12:59, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
  
:Done, apologies for the delay.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=Wiki Cap]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 18:03, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
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:: {{c|approve}}, is good. Makes sense to have a melee page.[[User:Mediarch|<font color="ec5c69">'''Mediarch'''</font>]] [[File:User Mediarch PFP.png|25px]][[User:Mediarch|<font color="#ff66cc"> ♥ </font>]][[User talk:Mediarch|<font color="ec5c69">'''Talk'''</font>]][[User:Mediarch|<font color="#ff66cc"> </font>]][[Special:Contributions/Mediarch|<font color="ec5c69">'''My Edits'''</font>]] 14:47, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
  
== History of an item template ==
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== Weapons audio ==
  
So a proposed idea was to create a section (or part of the infobox) on a weapon's page that shows the iterations the weapon went through. Something like this [[User:GrampaSwood/Template:Itemhistory|this]] (proof of concept, not a final design or anything yet). However, there are a few issues with this:
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Now over the years, some people have added all the weapon audios (one I specifically remembered is {{diff|2977120#Gallery|this one}}). My idea would not be to have them featured on the page and to not feature any "generic" weapon sounds (e.g. "draw" sounds, as shown in the example), but exclusively feature unique weapon sounds. This would also be linked through {{tl|Related audio}} the Gallery. Let me know what you think.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] {{!}} [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] {{!}} [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 00:29, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
* What do we document?
 
** Do we document only changes found in the stats (for example, the [[Sandman]] has had changes made to the stun of its ball that affected the way it worked, but they weren't noted in the stats) or do we note everything and put the non-visual stats in a "Hidden stats" section at the bottom? If we're going for visual stats only, do we count wording changes or do we count entirely new stats only?
 
** An issue with this is that it would essentially just be the Update history, except in a fancier outfit, or it would leave out some major changes that only be a history of the visual stats that were represented.
 
* Where does it go?
 
** An option would be under the current Update history section, or perhaps in the infobox.
 
  
Before we start on formatting or anything, I think the first issue '''has''' to be addressed, as my support for this idea depends on the outcome of this. A positive of this would be that the visual representation of the weapon's whole stats may be easier to understand than talking about stat changes from the first iteration, as they might not know the first iteration.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=Wiki Cap]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 21:07, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
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: I would sorta need to see an example of what it would end up looking like in practice to really form an opinion but I think including the more unique weapon sounds in some way would be good. A fair ammount of the unique sounds are already included in the main text of certain weapon articles. Off the top of my head, [[Dead Ringer]] has ("The Dead Ringer uncloaks with a [[Media:Spy uncloak feigndeath.wav|very loud and distinct sound]].") and [[Machina]] has something similar for the fanfare sound on a penetration kill. Not sure if it's really neccisary to have a dedicated section for the sounds if they could simply be integrated into the text itself instead. I'm not exactly opposed to the idea in general but I would kinda need to see how it'd be implemeted.
  
:I don't think this is necessary. In your words: "it would essentially just be the Update history, except in a fancier outfit". - [[User:BrazilianNut|BrazilianNut]] ([[User talk:BrazilianNut|talk]]) 22:57, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
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: Also it might be worth making a Sound Effects page? Maybe? There's lots of sounds and having them mostly organized in one place could be sorta handy though I might be severly under estimating just how many sounds there are. [[User:Mediarch|{{font color|ec5c69|'''Mediarch'''}}]] [[File:User Mediarch PFP.png|25px]][[User:Mediarch|{{font color|ff66cc| ♥ }}]][[User talk:Mediarch|{{font color|ec5c69|'''Talk'''}}]][[User:Mediarch|{{font color|ff66cc| ♥ }}]][[Special:Contributions/Mediarch|{{font color|ec5c69|'''My Edits'''}}]] 01:16, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
  
::While I'm collecting the opinions from our Chinese players, I would like to state my thought first. (So far 3 players have replied me, all of them say "yes")<br>
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:I like this idea, but I feel it would be better to include even the seemingly generic sounds like draw sounds, as some weapons do feature unique audio where many weapons do not (i.e. the [[Sharp Dresser]] having a unique draw sound).<br>A potential way of including all weapon sounds, plus generic, could be by providing every weapon sound for [[Stock weapons]], and any sounds shared with those by non-Stock weapons aren't included in said weapon's audio section? (or just link back to the stock weapon the sounds are shared from.)<br>[[User:Kibblekip|<font color="7D4071">Kibblekip</font>]] <sup>[[User Talk:Kibblekip|<font color="803020"><b>T</b></font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Kibblekip|<font color="256D8D"><b>C</b></font>]]</sup> 02:49, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
::Generally it's not a bad idea. As far as I know, some of viewers get puzzled to find out the previous attributes in the "Update History". It's better to put all these attributes which should be kept in infobox in an individual section named "Previous attributes" or something else.<br>
 
::Regarding whether we should record hidden attributes, my answer is "yes". Hidden attributes sometimes are critical to an item, but they may be discovered until players figure them out in a battle. If wiki can take the responsibility to write them down, then more users will get the opportunity to unearth the mechanisms behind these items.--祝编安/Best Regards<br><font color="Blue"> ||| [[User:BEUFK|BEUFK the nonsense]]</font> - [[Special:Contributions/BEUFK|contrib.]] - [[User_talk:BEUFK|have a talk]] 07:08, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
 
  
::: I agree with [[User:BrazilianNut|BrazilianNut]], I don't think it is necessary since we have the Update History already. If there is an update or change that hasn't been documented or that is unknown, we can always put them in the "Undocumented Changes" category at the end. [[User:Yossef|<font color="DB9C1F">'''Yossef'''</font>]] • [[User talk:Yossef|<font color="DB9C1F">'''Talk'''</font>]] 05:17, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
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::I agree with adding audio to certain weapon pages, but only if the sound is unique and not just the generic impact sound, so for example the HHHH would have an audio section but not something like the Bottle and Scottish Handshake, since they both use the same sounds.<br>[[User:Cheddar|<font color="#193940">'''Cheddar'''</font>]] • [[User talk:Cheddar|<font color="#193940">'''Talk'''</font>]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cheddar|<font color="#193940">'''Contribs'''</font>]] 12:58, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
  
== Meet the Heavy redone irl ==
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:::As I mentioned, there wouldn't be an actual section on the page, it would feature the linked template in the Gallery section instead. [[Buildings#Gallery]] has an example of how this looks. With "generic weapon sounds" I meant that sounds shared across multiple weapons would not be in each category. For example, a bullet ricochet sound is used on some materials, but this would not be on all bullet-based weapons. A draw sound for the Sharp Dresser is unique, so would be fine to include. Regarding a sound effects page, [[Audio cues]] serves that purpose. I don't think generic sound effects should be hosted, as I don't think the Wiki should be a file host for every sound in the game. That's why we have [[Help:Accessing the game files]].<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] {{!}} [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] {{!}} [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 13:29, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
  
Recently Shork uploaded [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uX7jb7QAJ8g Meet the Heavy irl] with the voice actor doing it, I think this should be a trivia point in [[Meet the Heavy]].<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=Wiki Cap]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 20:56, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
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::::So to make sure I'm understanding correctly, using the Sharp Dresser for example, the template would link to a category containing any audio that is used exclusively by the Sharp Dresser? I feel it would still be best to include sound effects shared between weapons in some way for consistency, though I'm unsure how that could be done without things getting too messy.<br>[[User:Kibblekip|<font color="7D4071">Kibblekip</font>]] <sup>[[User Talk:Kibblekip|<font color="803020"><b>T</b></font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Kibblekip|<font color="256D8D"><b>C</b></font>]]</sup> 01:50, 27 August 2024 (UTC)
  
:{{Info}}Congrats Shork for producing that vid, he nailed it. But I personally don't think it should be added as a trivia, since in the end of the day it was made and produced by a community TF2 Youtuber, and not Valve themselves. Plus by adding Shork's channel, it can come as some sort of "advertisement". [[User:Yossef|<font color="DB9C1F">'''Yossef'''</font>]] • [[User talk:Yossef|<font color="DB9C1F">'''Talk'''</font>]] 05:11, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
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== MvM operation pages ==
  
:: I wish to add it in some form. To put it into Trivia dimminishes it some what. This isn't just a redo, it is a live tribute to the beloved voice actor, and, as [[Rick May]] and this video reminds us, we are running out of time for such tributes.  I have no worry about it as any form of advertisement; Wikipedia is not concerned in the slightest that their [[w:Tom Jones (singer)|Tom Jones]] is an advertisement of ''Team Fortress 2''. I am not concerned that Trivia and citations hold advertisements for hundreds of actors, authors, films, games, etc. So what if it is not a Valve production -- we have examples of "apperances in other media".  Sorry, I'm noding off, I just ask you to concider how Wikipedia does not have Trivia sections, yet they give us models for mentioning this sort of thing.
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Hi,
::* Published Non-Valve recordings of voice actors voicing their ''TF2'' characters ''is'' notable!
 
::* Ditto the video of [[Dennis Bateman]] recieving a Spy figure is notable for being touching and for him voicing the Spy.
 
::* Ditto the video of the voice actor playing TF2 for the first time is notable because they perform their characters.
 
::  [[User:Mikado282|<span style="font-family: Arial"><font color="db9c1f">''' M I K A D O 282 '''</font></span><span style="font-family: Arial "><font color="00ff00"> <small>⊙</small>⊙⊙⊙⊙<small>⊙ ⊙⊙  ⊙⊙ </font></span>]] {{User:Mikado282/Sig/SigLinks}} 12 days until [[Halloween event|SF 2023]] </small> 03:00, 21 September 2023 (UTC) 02:38, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
 
  
:::I'm not sure I agree with the other videos of voice actors doing TF2-related stuff is notable for any pages. The Meet the Heavy video is a Valve-created video that was then remade in real life by the voice actor, but the voice actors doing anything related to TF2 is a stretch imo.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=Wiki Cap]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 12:19, 21 September 2023 (UTC)
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I've made some pages [[User:GrampaSwood/Operations|here]] that would be replacements for the existing operation pages, which currently just redirect to their badges. If you have any feedback, please leave it here or on the appropriate talk pages. My only issue I have is the strategy section. I don't believe it's viable to create per-mission (or even per-operation) stragey pages, as there is simply little to no interest there (though, if people want to create a sandboxed version they're welcome to). I am not sure on a way to restructure it, I was even thinking of adding it into the missions table, but I'm not sure that would be the best. I would like to know if anyone has ideas for that specifically, otherwise any factual errors or any other suggestions are welcome.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] {{!}} [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] {{!}} [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 10:53, 20 September 2024 (UTC)
 
 
:::: {{c|+|Support}} Wikipedia has many examples of appearances in other media, tributes, legacy, etc, as alternatives to Trivia.
 
:::: [[User:Mikado282|<span style="font-family: Arial"><font color="db9c1f">''' M I K A D O 282 '''</font></span><span style="font-family: Arial "><font color="00ff00"> <small>⊙</small>⊙⊙⊙⊙<small>⊙ ⊙⊙  ⊙⊙ </font></span>]] ([[User:Mikado282/Contact Mikado282|'''''contact''''']])([[User:Mikado282/Help Wanted!|'''''Help Wanted!''''']]) </small> 02:45, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
 
 
 
:::::I don't think we have to copy what Wikipedia does, referencing every notable video that they VA's have been in would essentially just be an advertisement to Shork's channel as he is the one that uploads most of these videos. I think Meet the Heavy is notable because it recreates something official, but including every interaction just turns it into an advertisement for his channel/videos.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 11:58, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
 
 
 
::::::{{c|+|Yes}}: As a trivia where the IRL-made video is linked through a reference.
 
::::::{{c|-|No}}: As an embedded video right below the official one or somewhere else on the page.
 
::::::{{c|Info}}: I think this is noteworthy enough just like we have the Search for Sandvich entry on the community fads page. It's somewhat similar considering it's the voice actors playing their roles. However, if the IRL made video ends up being made "alone" without the outro via the voice actor's Youtube channel (if it exists, or other social media websites that Gary is in), or even on ShorK's channel, then I'd replace the link with it whenever it becomes available (if available). [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 14:33, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Previous attributes in Update history ==
 
 
 
I'll preface this by saying that whatever the outcome of this discussion is, is gonna be final on this. So the proposal here is different from the one above, as it involved the Update history section specifically and having the original stats of the weapon when it came out. Examples of this exist currently only on [[Pretty Boy's Pocket Pistol]] and [[Soda Popper]] (as far as I could find). These were added at least a year ago and no effort has been made to apply this to other weapons. So far the only guideline that has been mentioned for this is that the stats have to be "drastically different" (referring to the Soda Popper's stats, which has adjusted the Hype mechanic and can do random critical hits, otherwise it's identical to the launch version).
 
 
 
Personally, due to the lack of effort put into adding this to other pages and the completely arbitrary "drastically different" requirement, we should remove this from the remaining pages. It also doesn't make much sense to add it only for the release version and not any other version (which may have been equally different from the current version). Please leave your vote below and in roughly a month I'll see what the votes are and make the decision based on that (also remember to put your vote into the other idea).<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=Wiki Cap]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 22:59, 21 September 2023 (UTC)
 
 
 
:I could do for every single weapons if consistency and effort are what you need. It might take some time to finish all of the weapon pages but if that can stop the revert war, I will do it, like right now. [[File:User Hinaomi Hinaomi-sig-2.png|link=User:Hinaomi]] [[User:Hinaomi|<span style="color:#9a86c5">'''Asuka Ninomiya'''</span>]] <small>([[User talk:Hinaomi|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Hinaomi|contributions]])</small> 07:59, 22 September 2023 (UTC)
 
 
 
::{{Info}} In the ideal world, it would've been nice to keep track on every attribute change that every weapon had throughout the years. But sadly, due to lack of manpower and (maybe?) information, I don't think it is possible to record every single change that every single weapon had since release. Therefore, I suggest in removing them as Gramps mentioned. [[User:Yossef|<font color="DB9C1F">'''Yossef'''</font>]] • [[User talk:Yossef|<font color="DB9C1F">'''Talk'''</font>]] 11:45, 22 September 2023 (UTC)
 
 
 
:::Too much effort for, in my opinion, too little return. - [[User:BrazilianNut|BrazilianNut]] ([[User talk:BrazilianNut|talk]]) 16:16, 22 September 2023 (UTC)
 
 
 
::::Then don't forget to change from "Update history" to just "Patch note". (as it will no longer reflected the history of the item, but rather the patch note of the item itself) And maybe remove Undocumented changes also, since it's not possible to record every single changes on every single weapon since release. [[File:User Hinaomi Hinaomi-sig-2.png|link=User:Hinaomi]] [[User:Hinaomi|<span style="color:#9a86c5">'''Asuka Ninomiya'''</span>]] <small>([[User talk:Hinaomi|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Hinaomi|contributions]])</small> 17:17, 22 September 2023 (UTC)
 
 
 
:::::I think it's unreasonable to respond like this, the Update history still is about the update history of an item. Not including the original stats doesn't mean that suddenly the entire Update history's function is useless, there is already a similar proposal above which performs the exact function you're looking for. It would be a much better use if there was a vote on that proposal to see if people even want this. As for the whole thing about undocumented patch notes, I don't exactly see your point here. You said in the IRC that we might as well remove undocumented changes, but it's completely unrelated to this. If for the past 10+ years, Undocumented changes were never put on the Update history and then someone wanted to add them, but only did so on 5 pages before abandoning the project I would've said the same and tried to come up with a better solution.
 
 
 
:::::Besides this, old attributes aren't changes made to the actual weapon, unlike undocumented changes. Any intentional ''changes'' to weapons are documented and if the changes aren't then they should. Noting the release stats of a weapon is not the same as this.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=Wiki Cap]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 18:15, 22 September 2023 (UTC)
 
 
 
::::::Well, whatever. If my statement after your discussion means nothing, then let just create the work out of the issue that never been an issue for years, I don't see any more reason to argue anymore since I'm the minority here. [[File:User Hinaomi Hinaomi-sig-2.png|link=User:Hinaomi]] [[User:Hinaomi|<span style="color:#9a86c5">'''Asuka Ninomiya'''</span>]] <small>([[User talk:Hinaomi|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Hinaomi|contributions]])</small> 02:34, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
 
 
 
:::::::I can understand the interest some people might have in the original stats, but I do not see our usefulness charter being served by putting it into Update history. I very exceedingly rarely look into Update history, and if I am trying to figure out stats at a particular time, the format is not at all helpful.
 
:::::::: '''If I wanted to see the past stats I would rather see them in a table.'''
 
:::::::Please, keep the Update history a curated listing of patch changes relevant to the page's topic clipped from update pages.
 
:::::::There is at least one Mod devoted to original stats, suggesting this might be a "better on Other Website thing".
 
:::::::[[User:Mikado282|<span style="font-family: Arial"><font color="db9c1f">''' M I K A D O 282 '''</font></span><span style="font-family: Arial "><font color="00ff00"> <small>⊙</small>⊙⊙⊙⊙<small>⊙ ⊙⊙  ⊙⊙ </font></span>]] ([[User:Mikado282/Contact Mikado282|'''''contact''''']])([[User:Mikado282/Help Wanted!|'''''Help Wanted!''''']]) </small> 12:27, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
 
 
 
::::::::I don't see much reason to include the old weapon stats on a new section (and I mean all stats, not just "drastic" changes). Most players just want to know about what a weapon currently does, and, if someone wants to make, let's say, a video on the "history of weapons in TF2 and their old stats", they can just use the "View History" function on the top of the page. Sure it won't be as straightforward as they'd have to check and find individually, but it's something that I don't see much use outside a couple people who creates videos or perhaps Steam guides.
 
 
 
::::::::What I do suggest is adding missing patch notes (if any are missing) regarding ANY weapon change on the "Update history" (even small ones). If any player / reader is interested, then they can just check that section (this also applies to people who wishes to make videos about old stats, too). Having a section just about what were the weapon stats feel a bit unnecessary because there's not much use for it, people can't use those old stats anymore unless it's modded in some way like VScript or a sourcemod thing. However, visual changes to weapons can probably be still added to the gallery as they are more "visual". Things like different backpack icons, models, and such. Although people could just check older file revisions for those as well, it's a small and nifty part of the gallery section showcasing how it used to LOOK like, and not a section on how it used to WORK like. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 14:44, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
 
 
 
{{Outdent|8}}Re second paragraph: Model changes (or other small changes) should also be included in the patch notes, if you find any of these that aren't on the pages, feel free to add them. I think the different backpack icons/models is not necessary to have in the Gallery, unless it is a drastic change in model entirely (i.e. changing the backpack icon to be angled slightly differently is not enough, but the Rocket/Sticky Jumper changes are). I would prefer having these images linked on the appropriate patch note, for example:<br>
 
{{Patch name|7|7|2016}} ([[Meet Your Match Update]])
 
* {{Pl|https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/archive/8/88/20160708005540%21Backpack_Rocket_Jumper.png|Updated model/materials}} and sound.<br> Or something like that, perhaps an "(old model)" after it with the link on it? Perfect use of {{tl|Pl}} too.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 15:28, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
 
 
 
::Yeah I was thinking about only drastic changes to backpack icons, models and textures. Some items include the old variants on the Gallery section (see [[Carouser's Capotain]]), while majority of other items that got updated don't. There has been cases of backpack icon changes that just changed the gamma / brightness very slightly, so yeah, these aren't needed to highlight. I don't think that linking the old version of an item / backpack icon on a "Updated" patch note makes much sense, though. I will think about it. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 15:52, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
 
 
 
::: OK. If the few who want to get the past stats, they can figure it out from the information that is alread on the wiki, with some effort, that is tollerable.
 
:::[[User:Mikado282|<span style="font-family: Arial"><font color="db9c1f">''' M I K A D O 282 '''</font></span><span style="font-family: Arial "><font color="00ff00"> <small>⊙</small>⊙⊙⊙⊙<small>⊙ ⊙⊙  ⊙⊙ </font></span>]] ([[User:Mikado282/Contact Mikado282|'''''contact''''']])([[User:Mikado282/Help Wanted!|'''''Help Wanted!''''']]) </small> 02:15, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Should we add VSH changes to weapons to their articles? ==
 
 
 
Should we include attribute and stat changes weapons have in Versus Saxton Hale to their articles, such as the Force-A-Nature's increased knockback at close range and the Demoman's shields acting similarly to the Razorback? I feel like this information should be easier to find than being exclusively in a subsection of the game mode's article (even if it's for an extra game mode that currently only has four maps). - [[User:BrazilianNut|BrazilianNut]] ([[User talk:BrazilianNut|talk]]) 10:27, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
 
 
 
:I don't think so, currently the gamemode relies on the maps itself to contain these balance changes so they could change per-map at any time (for example, if new maps are added). Perhaps a line of text explaining "this weapon has modified stats in VSH" would suffice?<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 14:06, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Dark Mode ==
 
 
 
I don't think I even need to explain this. Wikipedia itself has it, so do other wikis. I do have a browser extension for dark mode, and optimally a dark theme for TFwiki should still keep muted earthy orangish tones and such, but at this point with my eye strain I'd take anything. It would encourage more dedicated editing streaks, perhaps, since many of us are night owls too.--[[File:Leaderboard class allclass.png|15px|link=]] [[User:Akolyth|<span style="font-size: 14px; font-family: Trebuchet MS">'''Akolyth'''</span>]] ([[User_talk:Akolyth|talk]]) 03:23, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
 
 
 
:Easier said than done, it's being worked on but we can't promise anything.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 11:13, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Valve Store ==
 
 
 
The official Store has been closed down for months now by Valve, and there's no reasonable smidgeon of proof to believe it's coming back any time soon. The Wiki, in many articles, links directly to the Store still, or mentions it, but even tooltips for certain hats will just say they're "not available". This is kind of awkward, and makes the average user waste a click (the horror, I know). And even I get a false hope sometimes that it changed, but it's Valve after all. Should something be done about this, and how? Can there be an automatic disclaimer the Store is gone? Should links be removed? Just let the dead ends sit forever?--[[File:Leaderboard class allclass.png|15px|link=]] [[User:Akolyth|<span style="font-size: 14px; font-family: Trebuchet MS">'''Akolyth'''</span>]] ([[User_talk:Akolyth|talk]]) 02:44, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
 
 
 
:Try to find an archive.org version of it, otherwise just add a tooltip saying it's not available anymore due to store shutdown.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 11:12, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Painted variants with both Styles and separate Classes images, a design proposal ==
 
 
 
Hi. So, I have several mockups of things to suggest which I'll be writing it up eventually. For now, I was making changes to the [[Robot Chicken Hat]] page, and was thinking about adding class variants to the paint gallery, as each class changes the hat's design a little (taller combs, different beak designs, etc.). However, if I were to make those paint variants per class, the current way we put styles and classes to the table looks... off, to say the least. At the moment, if I were to make it consistent with the rest of the Wiki, it would look like this: [https://i.imgur.com/gfdAUBL https://i.imgur.com/gfdAUBL]. But, instead, I thought about this mock-up: [https://i.imgur.com/QmQCLsK https://i.imgur.com/QmQCLsK]. Not only this looks more visually appealing, but it also takes a lot less space. The only problem that it may be confusing for cosmetics that separate styles by a group of classes ([[Cotton Head]], [[Brotherhood of Arms]], etc.). So... I thought about just making the class buttons that aren't active a little darker (same thing with the Style name): [https://i.imgur.com/Fiw1zRT https://i.imgur.com/Fiw1zRT]. Here's another example with the Cotton Head: [https://i.imgur.com/ZhkQwGG https://i.imgur.com/ZhkQwGG]. Mouse-hovering the class icons could also show their class names ("Pyro, Medic, Spy" and "Other classes" in the case of Cotton Head) Thoughts? [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 13:11, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
 
 
 
:I like this proposal, although I think it's not necessary for every page. Only for the ones where the tabs become too much.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 13:15, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Inconsistency regarding items with one team color, but shows team-colored parts of a player model ==
 
 
 
Hello. So, when I started adding tabs to the paint variants, and just browsing the Wiki as a whole, I noticed that a couple pages are inconsistent in regards to the unpainted variants. In almost every case of cosmetics that use part of the player model, but only has 1 skin (not team-colored), the team-colors syntax isn't added to the tab, and we only have the UNPAINTED version on the paint variants table (example includes the [[Soldier's Stash]], [[Horrible Horns]] on Spy, and much more), but some other pages still shows the BLU variant of a player model despite the item only having one skin ([[Texas Half-Pants]], [[Millennial Mercenary]]'s Streaming 2Fort style, [[Exquisite Rack]], [[Battle Bob]]'s With Helmet style, [[Bacteria Blocker]]'s Headphones style, etc).
 
 
 
Some other pages also includes two identical RED and BLU images for the infobox, just because the item has two materials per team, but still uses the same exact texture and values (basically two identical .vmt files). I don't remember what pages has it now, but there are some pages that has that. I did that on [[Decorated Veteran]] since I've heard about doing that in the past before: "even if they look identical, put in two separate uploads". There's also no current way to just show one skin on the infobox (however that's something I'm looking to suggest soon enough on my mega infobox improvements topic).
 
 
 
Because we use the infobox, as well the RED and BLU parts of the paint variants table to show the different Skin Colors of the ITEM, I would say to actually cleaning it up these inconsistencies. So, for instance, on Texas Half-Pants, there wouldn't RED and BLU images for each style, because they look identical on either team, and, there's only two skins on the model (one for the Tan style, the other for the Midnight style [older cosmetics used a different way in handling styles, as opposed to separate models, many old cosmetics would use different skins for styles, and the Item Schema would redirect what skins to use depending on the style chosen]). The colors change on the images right now, because it's the colors of Engi's default pants, but not the actual item model changing colors. Meaning that, the RED / BLU on the infobox would be removed, the BLU_... images would be deleted, and the RED_ images would be moved to the _UNPAINTED.png suffix instead.
 
 
 
Some may argue that, since the team-colored paint can image previews also change the pants colors, that these should stay in, but, I don't agree. These are to show the item's team-colors being affected (both the UNPAINTED versions and the team-colored paint cans), not the player model's team-colors, but let me know what do you think.
 
 
 
Items that have 0 changes on team-colors despite having them (same exact .vmt values), I'd also say to get rid of it, as they provide no real information for the reader other than perhaps modders, so they don't need to go all the way of decompiling models to add team-color support, for instance. Some require close inspection however. The [[Mann-Bird of Aberdeen]] looks like to be the case, but the green area is just slightly brighter on BLU. I'd still keep the same colors for Styles and classes (like [[Team Captain]] for Heavy), until a more fully-fledged infobox edit comes along the way that adds support to just 1 skin on the infobox (like this: [https://i.imgur.com/GQP1ou0 https://i.imgur.com/GQP1ou0]). I will still point out many of these on my eventual discussion of infobox changes in another topic. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 13:43, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
 
 
 
:I would support every page having both team colours.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 13:57, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Articles for individual environmental hazards ==
 
 
 
Some of the older environmental hazards have their own articles. Specifically, they are: [[Ghost]], [[Pumpkin bomb]], [[Saw blade]], and [[Train]].
 
 
 
These are some fairly simple hazards: ghost goes "boo", pumpkin bomb goes "boom", blade goes "bzzt", and train goes "''[Train horn noises]''". They all have fairly short articles, and are also covered in the [[Environmental death]] article.
 
 
 
I propose we change these four into redirects to the Environmental death article, similar to [[Pitfall]].
 
 
 
As for their Update histories, I have three ideas:
 
* Add the section to the Environmental death article and carry them over.
 
* Create a separate page for that (similar to the [[Item timeline]] pages).
 
* Ignore them (essentially already the case for all the hazards that don't have their own articles).
 
 
 
I am ok with [[Skeletons]] and the Halloween bosses having their own articles, however, as they are more elaborate (which is noticeable by simply comparing article sizes).
 
 
 
Opinions? - [[User:BrazilianNut|BrazilianNut]] ([[User talk:BrazilianNut|talk]]) 16:36, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
 
 
 
:I think some of these pages can add value, such as the specifics in the hazard infobox. I'd push for more articles rather than less, similar to [[List of game modes]], where each hazard has its own page as well as a short description on the overall page. I would prefer this because it would cut down on the clutter on the Environmental death page, for example the pumpkin bomb section is 5 identical hazards that are just reskinned. It would be better to have this in a gallery on its own page, rather than several entries on that page.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 16:40, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
 
 
 
:: I believe it is better to keep the pages separate, as putting them all together in one could generate a lot of visual clutter, in addition to having a lot of information for the reader to consume at once. Furthermore, it would be complicated to gather all the update histories on the articles. Essentially, we would be taking separate articles and combining them into one big article, where each section (divided by {{code|<nowiki>== Section title ==</nowiki>}}) would be a "complete" article.<br/>[[User:Tiagoquix|<font color="#1e90ff">Tiagoquix</font>]] ([[User talk:Tiagoquix|<font color="#19c819">talk</font>]]) 18:45, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
 
 
 
== A request ==
 
 
 
In Polish language we don't capitalise most words like in English language and the way quality items have their quality displayed looks like this: Rocket launcher (vintage). The problem is that in [[Template:Mann-Conomy Nav]] Vintage quality in Polish and Russian is not capitalised and looks weird in the template where everything is capitalised except this one word. Is it possible to add a new entry in the dictionary for this template only, where 'Vintage' is capitalised for these languages? In Polish it's even more confusing, because [[Classic]] and Vintage share the same translation, so it could be shown in the tempalte as 'Vintage quality' (Jakość klasyczna in Polish). [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 10:28, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
 
  
:If it's the very first letter that needs to be capitalised, you can use <nowiki>{{ucfirst:<string>}}</nowiki> to turn the first letter into a capital. For example, <nowiki>{{ucfirst:hello world}}</nowiki> generates {{ucfirst:hello world}}.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 11:15, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
+
:A handful of the individual mission pages already have some basic strategies on them (though honestly many of these pages could do with improving, and some lack strategies entirely), so I feel the strategy section only containing links to the overall map strategies is fine. Most issues I have are small nitpicks; some of the tables could look a little nicer visually (some borders don't align correctly, mission images and names probably don't need separating or should use a different colour for backgrounds), for the Two Cities loot I feel it would be better to combine the rows/columns of the [[Robot Parts]] so they're presented siilar to the random item pool section, and for random item drops it could be worth listing the robot cosmetics (i.e. [[Stealth Steeler]]) independently, as they're unique to specifically the MvM reward pool rather than the standard drop pool. Otherwise this seems good to me, [[Media:Heavy_mvm_loot_common02.wav|good stuff.]]<br>[[User:Kibblekip|<font color="7D4071">Kibblekip</font>]] <sup>[[User Talk:Kibblekip|<font color="803020"><b>T</b></font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Kibblekip|<font color="256D8D"><b>C</b></font>]]</sup> 20:35, 20 September 2024 (UTC)
  
::Could you help me with this? I've changed it in [[Template:Mann-Conomy Nav]] but doesn't seem to capitalise the first letter. [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 10:54, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
+
::The tables are aligned now, I noticed that earlier and couldn't figure out why but I know why now. Seperated image/names generally tends to look better as the images fit better into their own box that way (the most I could do is add nameplates, but I think that would clash with the colour scheme, I might see if another colour fits though). For the random drop I don't think it should be separate on the table, because that'll just confuse people, but I can add it in the text below it. I made an example of single-cell Robot Parts table on the 2Cities loot table, I'm personally not a fan of it as it makes the Rare Robot part, Specialized Ks Fabricator (in the Guaranteed Loot section), and the Australium weapons far too stretched out. I would also like to keep the aussie rocket launcher/golden pan separated as the GP is much much rarer. Now that I think about it, separating the drop items may also look a bit better. Please also note the backpack image I've put on the other loot tables, I wanted to see if that looked better than the individual items.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] {{!}} [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] {{!}} [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 21:12, 20 September 2024 (UTC)
  
:::Hmmm, yeah seems like the automatic translation templates automatically uncapitalise it. If you really wanted to implement this you'd have to use the {{tl|lang}} template instead.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 13:49, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
+
::See [[User:GrampaSwood/Missions|this page]] for some alternate ideas on the map name colours.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] {{!}} [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] {{!}} [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 21:33, 20 September 2024 (UTC)
  
::::[https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/index.php?title=Template:Mann-Conomy_Nav&diff=3408072&oldid=3388990 I already did it once and...] [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 14:19, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
+
:::The MVM pages are very good, I don't think its worth having a stratergy page since most of those pages even for non-mvm maps never really tend to get written, but like you said, If you were to include them I'd put them on the missions table. <br>[[User:Cheddar|<font color="#193940">'''Cheddar'''</font>]] [[User talk:Cheddar|<font color="#193940">'''Talk'''</font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Cheddar|<font color="#193940">'''Contribs'''</font>]] 22:43, 20 September 2024 (UTC)
  
:::::Perhaps leave a hidden comment and use {{tl|lang incomplete}}?<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 14:27, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
+
Update on this: each mission's article has strategy. I propose merging this into a per-tour strategy instead, or a per-mission strategy.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] {{!}} [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] {{!}} [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 21:48, 9 October 2024 (UTC)
  
::::::I've coppied how it looked oryginally but now it shows as red link 'VintageVintage'. Could you look what's wrong with [https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/index.php?title=Template:Mann-Conomy_Nav&diff=3584139&oldid=3583139 this edit]? Except equals sign. I've fixed it later. [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 13:21, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
+
== Page for Community created Charecters ==
  
{{Outdent|6}}Looks like you forgot to add a vertical bar, which made the link <nowiki>[[VintageVintage]]</nowiki>.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 13:31, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
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There is a page for community created maps that aren't in game, one for [[NPCs]], so why not one for Community Created characters in game? I say if Trevor is on the official list of characters, I think there should be one for the community ones in game! <br>
 +
The rules would be to get on the list, the character must be: <br>
 +
# In game- it must be a character in tf2 you can see or hear, that is created by the community. <br>
 +
# the top of the page would say "None of the characters listed are cannon to the [[story]] of [[Tf2]].' due to none of them being official. <br>
 +
# All would state their creator, and (if they have a voice) who voices them <br>
 +
# all would state team tendency as inspired from the [[Company]] list on the Wiki  <br>
 +
I think this could be a place to se all of the different random guys, announcers, and bosses the community has made and what their lore is!<br>
 +
[[User:Axolotle|Axolotle]] ([[User talk:Axolotle|talk]]) 20:23, 9 October 2024 (UTC)
  
== Mann Manor/Mountain Lab's history ==
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:I don't think the argument of Trevor is one of any value at all. Trevor has a notable gag appearance in the comic he's in and he's an official character. All community-created characters have no relevance outside of their own maps, with the exception of Elizabeth II on Monster Bash, nor do they have any relevance to the storyline. If there is no connection to the entire rest of the game or anything story-wise, I don't see much of a reason to have them all collected on one article, as it would essentially be "List of non-player characters with no significance". Most relevant information about a map's storyline is always contained to the map itself as well, so I don't see why this wouldn't be (perhaps adding any interesting facts to Trivia instead?).<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] {{!}} [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] {{!}} [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 22:00, 9 October 2024 (UTC)
  
I feel maps that we know more detailed information on the history of we should actually have written down so it isn't forgotten, such as for example, Mann Manor/Mountain Lab being an art contest was not the original plan in fact the maps used to have textures before but, that's just what I think. [[User:The American Boot|The American Boot]] ([[User talk:The American Boot|talk]]) 04:34, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
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::I say that if there is a list of community maps that aren't even in the game, why not have there be one of [[NPC]]'s in the game? Yes it would be short, but so is the list of Companies, where the only thing that makes it big is how many there are and the images of their logo. So I think that it would fit right in <br>
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::[[User:Axolotle|Axolotle]] ([[User talk:Axolotle|talk]]) 03:37, 11 October 2024 (UTC)
  
:If you think this fact is worth and most player don't know, you can try adding it to Trivia section. Here is a more detailed [[Help:Style_guide/Trivia|Trivia guild]].[[User:Profiteer|Profiteer(奸商)the tryhard]] ([[User talk:Profiteer|talk]]) 05:07, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
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:::Some custom maps, like trade_plaza, orange_, or achievement_idle are way way more important to TF2 than Madame Sinclaire from [[Sinthetic]].<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] {{!}} [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] {{!}} [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 12:41, 11 October 2024 (UTC)
  
:I'm not sure where this Trivia came from or if there is any source for. The [[Art Pass Contest]] page states that Robin Walker said they had a map that hadn't been worked on for a while and they didn't have time to do an art pass on it (which means the map just had dev textures).<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 21:34, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
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::::That is a good point, maps like achievement_idle, cp_orange, tf_walkway are very important. But not all of them. Also I will say I understand why you wouldn't put them in the official [[NPC|NPC]] list, because then new players would think that Dr. Cadaverus Hale, or Veikko are extremely important to the story. But back to the list of companies, half of them are not important, and a lot come from [[Pier]] or [[Galleria]] both maps made by the community. And all of the entries can be summed up as (image of company logo), Name: Bill's Tractor Supply Maps: A map with a town in it Team: Red Blu Reference: unknown. That is the length of each entry. And yes, some companies are '''very''' important, but if they are then they have their own pages. And the rest are stuff that don't effect anything. You know how much the story would change if Jimi Jam wasn't there. I am '''NOT''' saying I don't like Jimi Jam, or the [[companies]] page. I like to see how many there are, see where they appear, and how they make the world feel realish. But also, they are not very long, because they are usually just a sign on a building, and if they're more than that, they have their own page or have it on the map they appear in. Thus, I see no problem in there being a Community Non-player characters page that says in it that they are not cannon to the story. I see no harm in this. Please tell me if there is any flaw in this logic.<br>
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::::[[User:Axolotle|Axolotle]] ([[User talk:Axolotle|talk]]) 17:45, 11 October 2024 (UTC)
  
== Weapon articles mentioning taunts that aren't kill taunts ==
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:::::If I had to choose today, I wouldn't create either the List of posters/companies articles. The presence of companies from Pier or Galleria are not relevant, as I mentioned before they should not be on there. The NPCs simply aren't notable because there's nothing to tell and they're not relevant to anything but their own maps so it makes most sense to put them on their own map articles. Just like we put community-made posters and companies on their own articles if they're relevant.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] {{!}} [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] {{!}} [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 19:14, 11 October 2024 (UTC)
  
I've noticed a few articles for weapons mentioning that those weapons have a unique taunt that is not a kill taunt, or a variation of the default weapon for that slot (which is still not a kill taunt). These are the [[Lollichop]], which mentions it has a unique taunt based on a scene from Meet the Pyro, and the [[Third Degree]] and [[Neon Annihilator]], which mention the added guitar sounds, respectively. In comparison, the [[Cow Mangler 5000]], [[Scottish Resistance]], and [[Ullapool Caber]], which also have unique taunts, do not mention them since they're not kill taunts, and the [[Vita-Saw]], which has has a variation of the default taunt, does not mention said variation.
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:::::: Okay, but then why does it exist? Why does the company list exist if you yourself say you would not make it. Why would it still be there? The only possible explanation is that it was grandfathered in, but on a Wiki where anyone can edit (basically) anything, I think that that is not a very good argument. So if that list can exist, why not this? <br>
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::::::[[User:Axolotle|Axolotle]] ([[User talk:Axolotle|talk]]) 20:47, 11 October 2024 (UTC)
  
I think we should remove these notes from the Lollichop, Third Degree, and Neon Annihilator, as they are already all noted in the Pyro taunts page.
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{{Outdent|7}}Just because I don't want something doesn't mean no one else wants to, I don't see a point in removing it now that it's already there, but if we had to have the discussion today I'm not sure I would vote yes on it. If other people want this page they'll vote yes for it, but as of right now it seems like it won't be added.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] {{!}} [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] {{!}} [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 20:52, 11 October 2024 (UTC)
  
Speaking of the [[Pyro taunts]] page, I think we can move the "as in Meet the Pyro" comment from the Lollichop's description to a new Trivia section and add that Execution is also based in a Meet the Pyro scene (which is not mentioned). - [[User:BrazilianNut|BrazilianNut]] ([[User talk:BrazilianNut|talk]]) 16:45, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
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:Yah, that is a bit of an issue. We are just going back and forth going "nuh uh" and "yah huh", if you know a way, please get other people to know of this [[discussion]], because it is really just us two saying the arguments "but there are pages like it", and "but there would be barely anything to talk about, and it's not cannon". So I would like others to give their two cents. I will say though, that it does not matter the age. If there is a problem, it is to be fixed. I do not want anyone to get rid of the company page, but if it is allowed, than this should too.<br>
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:[[User:Axolotle|Axolotle]] ([[User talk:Axolotle|talk]]) 22:12, 11 October 2024 (UTC)
  
:I think variants on an existing taunt should be mentioned, such as different sounds (such as the Third Degree/Neon Annihilator adding guitar sounds and the Vita-Saw having different melodies being played), but the non-kill taunt shouldn't be mentioned (no note about the Lollichop taunt. Although seeing as it's unique to that weapon, I think the Trivia can stay).<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 17:14, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
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::I'm with Grampa on this one. Community characters with '''zero''' connection to the real storyline don't really need their own page(s) on the Wiki in the main namespace. There's no real reason to document them like this, plus there's probably a dozen or so of them by this point it would take a huge amount of time to write the page at all. However, nothing's stopping you from creating a page like this on your user space and linking to it on your userpage as a project, people do this sort of stuff all the time. [[User:JupiterSphere|<span style="color:#ffbb57">JupiterSphere</span>]] ( ◡‿◡ *) ⊱✿⊰ [[User talk:JupiterSphere|<span style="color:#b97ecf">Talk To Me!</span>]] ⊱✿⊰ 22:24, 11 October 2024 (UTC)
  
== Main menu Smissmas 2023 header localization ==
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:::I'm also with Gramps. I don't think there's enough material to justify a page to something like this and don't really see much value in documenting it. [[User:Mediarch|{{font color|ec5c69|'''Mediarch'''}}]] [[File:User Mediarch PFP.png|25px]][[User:Mediarch|{{font color|ff66cc| ♥ }}]][[User talk:Mediarch|{{font color|ec5c69|'''Talk'''}}]][[User:Mediarch|{{font color|ff66cc| ♥ }}]][[Special:Contributions/Mediarch|{{font color|ec5c69|'''My Edits'''}}]] 22:29, 11 October 2024 (UTC)
  
'Smissmas 2023' is localized but 'December 7 - January 7' is not. Is it possible to localize it too? [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 10:29, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
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::::I'm with Grampa as well. While I think such a page would be ''kinda neat'', I don't think it would be much ''useful'', as most of these characters just exist without a background or even a face and are reserved to a single instance. - [[User:BrazilianNut|BrazilianNut]] ([[User talk:BrazilianNut|talk]]) 22:36, 11 October 2024 (UTC)
  
:See [[Template:Dictionary/common_strings#.5BMain_Page.5D_Smissmas_2023|Dictionary common strings]].<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 13:37, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
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:I will put it on my [[User:Axolotle|user page]] as recommended by JupiterSphere.<br>
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:[[User:Axolotle|Axolotle]] ([[User talk:Axolotle|talk]]) 00:08, 12 October 2024 (UTC)
  
:: Thanks. [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 14:19, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
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== Category for pages with 'Bugs' section ==
  
== Link of the wiki team fortress energie drink don't work ==
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Is it possible to automatically categorize all pages with reported bugs? This way, it would be easier to track and test if said bugs were already fixed (or not). [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 19:14, 13 October 2024 (UTC)
  
[[https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Team_Fortress_Wiki:Wiki_Birthday#Official.E2.84.A2_Team_Fortress_Energy_Drink]] you see this page on the wiki contain a team fortress wiki energie drink with a link for have it but it don't work and is not secure, can someone help me ? <small>— ''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' '''[[User:Nonolemage|Nonolemage]]''' ([[User talk:Nonolemage|talk]]) ([[Special:Contributions/Nonolemage|contribs]]) 2023-12-21, 13:46 UTC</small>
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:I don't think this is necessary, this seems like something only useful for the TF Team.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] {{!}} [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] {{!}} [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 19:31, 13 October 2024 (UTC)
  
:Please sign your messages using <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>.
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::Sometimes bugs are listed on the Wiki, but they are no longer possible to reproduce or were fixed without being mentioned in patch notes. On pages with less traffic, they can be forgotten and left unedited (cosmetic items for example). Please reconsider it. [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 20:30, 13 October 2024 (UTC)
:The website appears to be down and no archive of it exists, so unless someone here happens to have a copy we can't do much.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 13:46, 21 December 2023 (UTC)
 
  
== Multiple Suggestions related to Infobox, etc ==
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:::I just don't see much benefit in this, besides the technical challenge of it (which I'm fairly certain is impossible without using WindBOT to mass categorise a ton of pages), there isn't a ton of benefit to it either imo.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] {{!}} [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] {{!}} [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 20:52, 13 October 2024 (UTC)
  
Hi. I have been wanting to write this in the past, but, well, finally here it is. I have a couple suggestions about things related to infobox, and other things to make the design of the Wiki flow better on certain articles. I will be posting here as it covers a multitude of topics, as opposed to posting each one of them on their respective templates. When adding "Support" and "Not Support" on your responses, please make sure to add the number (and letter) behind to specify what you are supporting (or not supporting) as a change (like: "1-c"). With that said, let's get going:
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== Missing english pages ==
  
<hr>
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Is there any way to view any missing pages that are in English? I know most of these missing pages are either community strategies for relatively unpopular maps, community strategy for TFC classes, and anything related to competitive but it would still be nice to keep track of these pages without having to scroll through a bunch of missing translations. [[User:TeapotsOfDoom|TeapotsOfDoom]] ([[User talk:TeapotsOfDoom|talk]]) 19:24, 27 October 2024 (UTC)
  
1) Implement a way on the {{code|Item infobox}} template where if a style or class has only one team-color compared to other styles with team-colors, include an icon in the middle of both teams. For instance:
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:Sorry for the late reply, I don't believe there is a way to find that out. We would need some special report for it.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] {{!}} [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] {{!}} [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 12:47, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
  
a) The Heavy variant of the [[Team Captain]] only has one color, but the page right now includes a duplicate of the RED variant as a workaround. What I suggest is doing this: [https://i.imgur.com/YgQHk5z https://i.imgur.com/YgQHk5z]. Make the Heavy variant only one file, and center it. It should be pretty clear that because of the image is in the middle, is that it looks like that on both teams.
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== Crates, cases, and keys ==
  
b) For items with styles that only has one color (not team-colored), do the same thing as well. In the example of [[Close Quarters Cover]], include the "Alert" style on the infobox in the middle of the "RED" and "BLU" sections of the infobox, something like this: [https://i.imgur.com/lARBQME https://i.imgur.com/lARBQME].
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'''The problem:'''<br>There are over 140 crates, most with a unique accompanying key, ''and counting''. [[Mann_Co._Supply_Crate/Retired_case_series|Retired case series]] has already had to be created because [[Mann_Co._Supply_Crate/Retired_series|Retired crate series]] was [[Talk:Mann_Co._Supply_Crate/Retired_series#Page_is_reaching_length_limits|reaching length limits]], and I fear the article for keys will soon face the same issue.
  
c) For items that are not team-colored, but have class-specific variants, include a new part colored in grey called "Both Teams", and include each image on the middle as well. For example, the [[Dead Little Buddy]] have 3 model variants, one for Pyro, one for Demoman, and the other for the remaining classes. The idea is this: [https://i.imgur.com/xPD9PMO https://i.imgur.com/xPD9PMO].
 
  
d) Although I do not have a mock-up right now, I thought of also doing the same as above for items that has only one color. So, for instance, the [[Jumper's Jeepcap]] would have a "Both Teams" section, and it would include the "UNPAINTED" variant on the center. Items with styles with just one color, like [[Mustachioed Mann]], would be similar to Dead Little Buddy, including each style on the infobox, alongside their names. Items like [[Carl]] that has no styles, but is neutral-colored, would also have the "Both Teams" part.
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'''Suggested solution #1:'''<br>
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Turn the active and retired crate and case series pages into list pages similar to the [[Cosmetic_items#List_of_cosmetic_items|List of [class] cosmetics]] pages, create such pages for keys, and make articles for the crates/cases WITH their respective keys. The conjoined articles could be simply crate/case + key and/or by update. There are a few issues, though:
  
<hr>
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* Some keys can/could open multiple cases, like in the Invasion Community Update Key that can open the Confidential and Quarantine cases and the Gun Mettle Key that can open the Concealed Killer and Powerhouse weapon cases. Should we have both cases be featured in the same article, or should we create one for each and just repeat that the same key is used for both? But then, which article should we link the key to?
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** Instead of focusing on the crates/cases, should we focus on the keys and have the crates/cases link to them instead?
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*** What about some of the 2013 keys? For instance, the summer event ''alone'' had '''eight''' distinct keys. Should each key have its own article, or should we group them together?
  
2) Get rid of the current "2D" images of Weapons, and use "Item icons" instead. The 2D weapon images are not consistent throughout the Wiki. They have different lighting, different angles, and so on. What I suggest is doing something similar to another Wiki I also contributed (one related to a TF2 sourcemod): [https://i.imgur.com/vbvPbGP https://i.imgur.com/vbvPbGP]. This looks extremely clean, and every page would have in this angle. The 2D image only includes the RED variant, just like we use RED classes on our cosmetic previews.
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* While nowadays cases and keys are released in updates like Scream Fortress and Smissmas, some old crates were unceremoniously released in random, regular patches. How should we deal with these?
  
<hr>
 
  
3) Add the "RED" and "BLU" sections on the infobox for Weapon pages, even if the 3D image allows you to switch between teams. Right now, the RED variant is used as the 2D image (for team-colored weapons), while the 2D BLU variant awkwardly sits on the Gallery section. My suggestion would be this: [https://i.imgur.com/dM9z7Oo https://i.imgur.com/dM9z7Oo]
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'''Suggested solution #2:'''<br>
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Again, turn the active and retired crate and case series pages into list pages, but this time transfer the info on them to the articles for their updates. However, there is still the issue of the crates unceremoniously added in random, regular patches; where would their info go?
  
<hr>
 
  
4) For cosmetic pages that has styles alongside class changes on the Painted Variants table, include additional buttons that include class icons. The idea is to remove clutter on pages with a lot of tabs to choose from (see [https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/index.php?title=Boarder%27s_Beanie&oldid=3594086 this page]). In technical terms, the style buttons would be responsible to change the "style" part of the filename, while the class buttons would change the class part of the filename. If the first class is chosen, then the code needs to get rid of the class part of the filename, as the first class is always the default: [https://i.imgur.com/QmQCLsK https://i.imgur.com/QmQCLsK]
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'''Suggested solution #3:'''<br>
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Just have ''every single crate, case, and key'' have ''its own, unique article'' <small>(maybe a single article for the Summer 2013 Cooler ones, though)</small>.
  
a) Additionally, text could be placed on each row, one for "Style:", and the other for "Class:" for the second row, just so it's a little more intuitive and understandable for everyone.
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Opinions and/or suggestions? - [[User:BrazilianNut|BrazilianNut]] ([[User talk:BrazilianNut|talk]]) 12:19, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
  
<hr>
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:I'm not so sure it's going to exceed the page limit soon, the reason the crate one did is because it had a lot of templates to transclude too. Try copy pasting the current entries until the page gives an error, I'd be interested to see how long we'd actually have before making a decision.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] {{!}} [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] {{!}} [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 12:47, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
  
5) Include "infobox images" for separate styles, and add buttons that let you change it. The idea is to include identical images (with identical classes and facial flexing), with the only thing changing the model. For example, [[Main Cast]] would look like this: [https://imgur.com/a/OmTIYVs https://imgur.com/a/OmTIYVs].
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::: The problem crates faced is not even close to happening on the key page - [https://imgur.com/a/AI87inf data compare]. You can see in the 3rd image I copy pasted (most of) the key section again and it's not even close to any limits - that's 147 keys, an extra 73 keys, probably would be able to hold like three times that so ~200 keys, at 4 keys a year the page will last for 50 years. The 4th image does show that we might need to concerned about the case page, if we think the game is going to still be getting more cases in 10 years. [[User:Jh34ghu43gu|Jh34ghu43gu]] ([[User talk:Jh34ghu43gu|talk]]) 12:53, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
  
<hr>
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== When will error 502 and 503 be fixed? ==
  
6) Include more sections on the Gallery for items with more than one Style. In the past, the [[Robot Chicken Hat]] page did include all 9 classes on the Gallery section, with 2 separate sections, one with the "Beak" style, and the other with "Beakless" style. It would follow the same rule as "5)", with both images looking identical facial-flex and pose-wise. Some pages like [[Dead of Night]] wouldn't include all classes on each section. Classes with lack of grenades wouldn't be there.
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Hello,
  
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I'm contributing – from time to time – for years on this wiki and this problem has never been solved. I'm suspecting this website runs on a potato in Gaben's bathroom to be that bad. A MediaWiki isn't particularly resource-intensive, so I don't understand what all the fuss is about? I'm not in the habit of complaining, it's very negative for everyone, but sometimes you've got to get things moving.
  
7) Lastly. Items that include noticeable team-color differences could also get "Single Color" paint can previews on both teams, even if the paint look identical on the area that is paintable. When Paints were first introduced, they were mostly applied to cosmetics that used the same texture on either team. Now, nowadays, we have cosmetics that include team-colored parts that are not paintable, alongside other parts that are. So, for instance, [[Brawling Buccaneer]] would have its Painted variants table from <nowiki>{{Painted variants}}</nowiki> to <nowiki>{{Painted variants full}}</nowiki>, and single color paint can previews for the BLU team would be made, to show how the paint looks like, and despite being painted in the same area, the rest of the item is in another color. Readers might want to know how an item looks on the BLU team. This would take a long time too make for the entirety of the Wiki, and would be a project that would require remaking some paint variants if they do not have Rotation values saved, or if there's another issue that doesn't make them 1:1, but I think it would look good, and useful as well.
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No one's going to tell me that Valve doesn't have the money, or that this Wiki isn't seen by anyone, otherwise these errors wouldn't be so frequent.
  
<hr>
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Not to mention the MediaWiki version, which is very, very obsolete: 1.31 dates back to 2018, that's 6 years, almost 7.
  
8) For items that has several styles / classes on the infobox (such as [[Manndatory Attire]], [[Beaten and Bruised]] and [[Boarder's Beanie‎]]), make the Infobox template show less of them by default, and include a button with a caption "↓ Show remaining ↓". If possible, make the last one have a "fade" effect, so it's perfectly clear what the button is about. My idea was to include at least 10 of these sections, then fade (because if it reaches 10 of these, it means there's more than one Style per class, where other pages would include 9 of these per class, though, it could be shortened if needed, but personally I would go with 10 sections before the button and fade shows up). It would look like this: [https://i.imgur.com/jh6geu6 https://i.imgur.com/jh6geu6]
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These two issues aren't related, but I'd like to point them out and hope to see if they can lead to something positive. I'm even willing to lend a hand!
  
<hr>
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[[User:SpyAmogus|SpyAmogus]] ([[User talk:SpyAmogus|talk]]) 18:40, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
  
'''Edit: ''' 9) Regarding the Styles section. If we include Styles on the infobox, even for items that look the same on either team, is it really necessary to include the "Styles" section on the page, alongside the table, if everything would be on the Infobox? It seems redundant to keep both of them, but, I'd only get rid of the Styles section after everything is added to the infobox, including the single-color Styles on it. Additionally, certain pages that has Styles that change between classes are a little confusing at the moment. [[Manndatory Attire]] has only Scout's styles being demonstrated on the table, despite each class changing the visuals.
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:It's not a money nor visibility issue, we're very much aware of the issue but if the fix was as simple as updating MediaWiki or throwing more money at it then it would've been done already. The backend of the Wiki is quite outdated and Valve doesn't host the servers. It's going to take some time before the issue is fixed and there's nothing we can really do to speed it up.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] {{!}} [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] {{!}} [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 18:44, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
  
a) Originally I was going to suggest a class-switcher button, similar to the "4)", but, if "1)" is implemented, I don't see any reason to keep the Styles section. Please let me know if you think there should be either: "An arrange of buttons that lets you change classes on the Styles table" or "Getting rid of the Styles section entirely as it would be redundant with all the styles on the infobox once the "1)" suggestion is implemented.
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::Thanks for your reply. Valve doesn't host but it's a Valve property according to WHOIS. Either they don't care (yet all Steam market links to this wiki), or they just don't know this website exists anymore. They or big admins should really take care of this matter, it's been too much years I, but others contributors and visitors are waiting. [[User:SpyAmogus|SpyAmogus]] ([[User talk:SpyAmogus|talk]]) 19:11, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
  
b) The only problem that getting rid of the Styles section would be problematic for items that has barely any difference unpainted, but has more notable differences when paintable. Items like [[Onimann]] mostly change its visuals when painted between styles, and if there's no section for it. However, the painted variants table, alongside the main summary on the top of the page, would both visually show the difference, as well would explain in text what each style does in terms of paint.
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:::Valve owns it because it's hosted on teamfortress.com and it is an official wiki, but they don't interfere with anything related to the Wiki unless we ask (wouldn't help in this case, though, and we don't need it). The problem is being worked on, it is just very complicated and it isn't something we can easily fix. These errors also haven't been around for years, but happened under very different circumstances that were fixed before. This is a completely different and much more complicated issue. The only thing you can do is have patience, unfortunately.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] {{!}} [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] {{!}} [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 19:28, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
  
<hr>
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::::I see, thank you for your complete reply! Good luck.
 +
::::PS: No ETA I guess :)?
 +
::::[[User:SpyAmogus|SpyAmogus]] ([[User talk:SpyAmogus|talk]]) 20:23, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
  
Please let me know your thoughts below. Notice that I'm not sure if I would be able to implement some of these suggestions, specially the ones for the "Item infobox" template. If there's enough support, I'd appreciate anyone who could implement suggested changes / additions. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 21:13, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
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== Is there a way to watch "typo" link in specific language? ==
  
:1. I think that section should be dedicated to showing off the team colours rather than different styles for different classes. If a cosmetic looks different on different classes I would prefer a different box for it similar to the "Styles" section.
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Hello,
:2/3. That's fine by me, though I would also want to add a second button to it for the BLU variant rather than stuffing it in the Gallery.
 
:4/5. I like this.
 
:6. I like this, although I would suggest we use the {{tl|Tabs}} template for it.
 
:7. I like this too, but it would require a ton of work and I'm not sure we'd be able to make it through.
 
:8. I'm not sure that I'm a fan of collapsing a bunch of them. I would prefer having them sorted by class instead similar to {{tl|Tabs}}.
 
:9. See answer on 1.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 21:59, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
 
  
::1 {{c|+|Agree}} - All of these changes look very nice, I don't have anything to say about them.
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It's me again, I would like to know if there's a way to see the "least" wanted pages restricting on language.
::2 / 3 {{c|?|Not sure / changes}} - Would the change to using weapon icons include BLU weapon icons as well? If it does, I would rather have the 2D BLU image in the main infobox when you click on BLU and then switch to the 2D image instead of it being below the main image.
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It could be useful to see typo made on link, for example, the person wrote <nowiki>[[Upwart/fr|…]]</nowiki> instead of Upwar'''d'''.
::4 {{c|+|Agree}} - This also looks nice.
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In a report I found, it's the most wanted in each page but when I go to the #10,000, the max is when a page is linked by "only" 261, no way to find a page with a single typo (1 occurence) on the wiki. $
::5 {{c|-|Disagree}} - I don't know how I feel about this, I feel like the painted variants sorta already accomplish the goal of knowing what the cosmetic would look like with the different styles. It would also take a lot of work to recreate a lot of infobox images just for this.
 
::6 {{c|-|Disagree}} - I have the same thoughts about this as 5, it would take a lot of work to redo a bunch of galleries when the styes / painted variants section already get the job done.
 
::7 {{c|+|Sorta Agree}} - This would look nice, however it would again take a lot of work to get done.
 
::8 {{c|+|Agree / changes}} - I like the idea, though I agree with what Swood said with that it would look better if it was just in tabs instead.
 
::9 {{c|?|Not sure}} - I sort of agree with the idea of removing the styles section, but I also do like how there's a sort of simplified section for seeing all of the styles instead of it only being part of the infobox and painted variants.
 
::[[User:Andrew360|<span style="font-family:TF2 Build; color:#038d3a ">Andrew360</span>]] [[File:Edit_icon.png|20px|link=Special:Contributions/Andrew360]] [[File:Speech typing.png|25px|link=User_talk:Andrew360]] [[File:Photo Badge Decal Example.png|15px|link=https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Special:ListFiles?limit=25&user=Andrew360&ilshowall=0]] 03:27, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
 
  
:::1 {{c|-|Disagree}} - Same reason with Swood, I think the style section should do the job.
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Thanks for the support
:::2 {{c|+|Agree}} - Good idea!
 
:::3 {{c|+|Sorta Agree}} - Instead of taking space in infobox, Why don't we use the same button used on 3D images?
 
:::4 {{c|+|Agree}} - Yes.
 
:::5 {{c|+|Agree}} - Looks nice, but considered what Andrew says we might not getting those done in recent.
 
:::6 {{c|+|Agree}} - We are gonna do a lot of work then I guess.
 
:::7 {{c|+|Agree}} - Same with Andrew360
 
:::8 {{c|?|Not sure}} - Looks good, though yeah, why not use {{tl|Tabs}}?
 
:::9 {{c|?|Disagree.. or Sorta Agree}} - If I have to choose one from infobox and style section, I would take style section. In my opinion the infoboxs shouldn't be too long and contain too much information, comparing to a small space on the right side of the page, I think the style section can display the information better. If 8 gets passed then I'm fine with it too. (I just don't want to see infobox gets longer than the page itself.)
 
:::[[User:Profiteer|Profiteer(奸商)the tryhard]] ([[User talk:Profiteer|talk]]) 06:16, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
 
  
::::1 {{c|+|Sorta Agree}} - Eh, doesn't matter to me either way.
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21:27, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
::::2 {{c|?|Not sure}} - I wanna see how it would look first.
 
::::3 {{c|+|Agree}} - I was kinda the one to start the whole "shoving the blue variant in the gallery" and have always wondered why there wasn't a color toggle for the 2D variants.
 
::::4 {{c|+|Strongly agree}} - I wish it was like this since the beginning!
 
::::5 {{c|?|Not sure}} - I like the idea, but it will take a '''lot''' of work updating all the pages and such with the change.
 
::::6 {{c|?|Not sure}} - Same answer as 5.
 
::::7 {{c|+|Agree}} - I'm only saying yes because we'll only have to edit the templates which are used across all translation pages.
 
::::8 {{c|-|Somewhat disagree}} - There aren't very many items that have loads of different styles like this, I think I'd wait until we get something like a shirt or coat that includes a load of different styles (with team variants).
 
::::9 {{c|-|Strongly disagree}} - Yeah it is necessary to have a styles section, because they mostly show examples of what they look like on the character wearing it. I know that the infobox has styles too, but they're only the raw models.
 
::::[[User:ShadowMan44|ShadowMan44]] ([[User talk:ShadowMan44|talk]]) 01:52, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
 

Latest revision as of 21:27, 9 December 2024


Dark Mode

I don't think I even need to explain this. Wikipedia itself has it, so do other wikis. I do have a browser extension for dark mode, and optimally a dark theme for TFwiki should still keep muted earthy orangish tones and such, but at this point with my eye strain I'd take anything. It would encourage more dedicated editing streaks, perhaps, since many of us are night owls too.--Leaderboard class allclass.png Akolyth (talk) 03:23, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

Easier said than done, it's being worked on but we can't promise anything.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 11:13, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

Valve Store

The official Store has been closed down for months now by Valve, and there's no reasonable smidgeon of proof to believe it's coming back any time soon. The Wiki, in many articles, links directly to the Store still, or mentions it, but even tooltips for certain hats will just say they're "not available". This is kind of awkward, and makes the average user waste a click (the horror, I know). And even I get a false hope sometimes that it changed, but it's Valve after all. Should something be done about this, and how? Can there be an automatic disclaimer the Store is gone? Should links be removed? Just let the dead ends sit forever?--Leaderboard class allclass.png Akolyth (talk) 02:44, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Try to find an archive.org version of it, otherwise just add a tooltip saying it's not available anymore due to store shutdown.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 11:12, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Painted variants with both Styles and separate Classes images, a design proposal

Hi. So, I have several mockups of things to suggest which I'll be writing it up eventually. For now, I was making changes to the Robot Chicken Hat page, and was thinking about adding class variants to the paint gallery, as each class changes the hat's design a little (taller combs, different beak designs, etc.). However, if I were to make those paint variants per class, the current way we put styles and classes to the table looks... off, to say the least. At the moment, if I were to make it consistent with the rest of the Wiki, it would look like this: https://i.imgur.com/gfdAUBL. But, instead, I thought about this mock-up: https://i.imgur.com/QmQCLsK. Not only this looks more visually appealing, but it also takes a lot less space. The only problem that it may be confusing for cosmetics that separate styles by a group of classes (Cotton Head, Brotherhood of Arms, etc.). So... I thought about just making the class buttons that aren't active a little darker (same thing with the Style name): https://i.imgur.com/Fiw1zRT. Here's another example with the Cotton Head: https://i.imgur.com/ZhkQwGG. Mouse-hovering the class icons could also show their class names ("Pyro, Medic, Spy" and "Other classes" in the case of Cotton Head) Thoughts? Headphones style when? - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 13:11, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

I like this proposal, although I think it's not necessary for every page. Only for the ones where the tabs become too much.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 13:15, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Inconsistency regarding items with one team color, but shows team-colored parts of a player model

Hello. So, when I started adding tabs to the paint variants, and just browsing the Wiki as a whole, I noticed that a couple pages are inconsistent in regards to the unpainted variants. In almost every case of cosmetics that use part of the player model, but only has 1 skin (not team-colored), the team-colors syntax isn't added to the tab, and we only have the UNPAINTED version on the paint variants table (example includes the Soldier's Stash, Horrible Horns on Spy, and much more), but some other pages still shows the BLU variant of a player model despite the item only having one skin (Texas Half-Pants, Millennial Mercenary's Streaming 2Fort style, Exquisite Rack, Battle Bob's With Helmet style, Bacteria Blocker's Headphones style, etc).

Some other pages also includes two identical RED and BLU images for the infobox, just because the item has two materials per team, but still uses the same exact texture and values (basically two identical .vmt files). I don't remember what pages has it now, but there are some pages that has that. I did that on Decorated Veteran since I've heard about doing that in the past before: "even if they look identical, put in two separate uploads". There's also no current way to just show one skin on the infobox (however that's something I'm looking to suggest soon enough on my mega infobox improvements topic).

Because we use the infobox, as well the RED and BLU parts of the paint variants table to show the different Skin Colors of the ITEM, I would say to actually cleaning it up these inconsistencies. So, for instance, on Texas Half-Pants, there wouldn't RED and BLU images for each style, because they look identical on either team, and, there's only two skins on the model (one for the Tan style, the other for the Midnight style [older cosmetics used a different way in handling styles, as opposed to separate models, many old cosmetics would use different skins for styles, and the Item Schema would redirect what skins to use depending on the style chosen]). The colors change on the images right now, because it's the colors of Engi's default pants, but not the actual item model changing colors. Meaning that, the RED / BLU on the infobox would be removed, the BLU_... images would be deleted, and the RED_ images would be moved to the _UNPAINTED.png suffix instead.

Some may argue that, since the team-colored paint can image previews also change the pants colors, that these should stay in, but, I don't agree. These are to show the item's team-colors being affected (both the UNPAINTED versions and the team-colored paint cans), not the player model's team-colors, but let me know what do you think.

Items that have 0 changes on team-colors despite having them (same exact .vmt values), I'd also say to get rid of it, as they provide no real information for the reader other than perhaps modders, so they don't need to go all the way of decompiling models to add team-color support, for instance. Some require close inspection however. The Mann-Bird of Aberdeen looks like to be the case, but the green area is just slightly brighter on BLU. I'd still keep the same colors for Styles and classes (like Team Captain for Heavy), until a more fully-fledged infobox edit comes along the way that adds support to just 1 skin on the infobox (like this: https://i.imgur.com/GQP1ou0). I will still point out many of these on my eventual discussion of infobox changes in another topic. Headphones style when? - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 13:43, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

I would support every page having both team colours.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 13:57, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Articles for individual environmental hazards

Some of the older environmental hazards have their own articles. Specifically, they are: Ghost, Pumpkin bomb, Saw blade, and Train.

These are some fairly simple hazards: ghost goes "boo", pumpkin bomb goes "boom", blade goes "bzzt", and train goes "[Train horn noises]". They all have fairly short articles, and are also covered in the Environmental death article.

I propose we change these four into redirects to the Environmental death article, similar to Pitfall.

As for their Update histories, I have three ideas:

  • Add the section to the Environmental death article and carry them over.
  • Create a separate page for that (similar to the Item timeline pages).
  • Ignore them (essentially already the case for all the hazards that don't have their own articles).

I am ok with Skeletons and the Halloween bosses having their own articles, however, as they are more elaborate (which is noticeable by simply comparing article sizes).

Opinions? - BrazilianNut (talk) 16:36, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

I think some of these pages can add value, such as the specifics in the hazard infobox. I'd push for more articles rather than less, similar to List of game modes, where each hazard has its own page as well as a short description on the overall page. I would prefer this because it would cut down on the clutter on the Environmental death page, for example the pumpkin bomb section is 5 identical hazards that are just reskinned. It would be better to have this in a gallery on its own page, rather than several entries on that page.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 16:40, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
I believe it is better to keep the pages separate, as putting them all together in one could generate a lot of visual clutter, in addition to having a lot of information for the reader to consume at once. Furthermore, it would be complicated to gather all the update histories on the articles. Essentially, we would be taking separate articles and combining them into one big article, where each section (divided by == Section title ==) would be a "complete" article.
Tiagoquix (talk) 18:45, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

A request

In Polish language we don't capitalise most words like in English language and the way quality items have their quality displayed looks like this: Rocket launcher (vintage). The problem is that in Template:Mann-Conomy Nav Vintage quality in Polish and Russian is not capitalised and looks weird in the template where everything is capitalised except this one word. Is it possible to add a new entry in the dictionary for this template only, where 'Vintage' is capitalised for these languages? In Polish it's even more confusing, because Classic and Vintage share the same translation, so it could be shown in the tempalte as 'Vintage quality' (Jakość klasyczna in Polish). User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 10:28, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

If it's the very first letter that needs to be capitalised, you can use {{ucfirst:<string>}} to turn the first letter into a capital. For example, {{ucfirst:hello world}} generates Hello world.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 11:15, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
Could you help me with this? I've changed it in Template:Mann-Conomy Nav but doesn't seem to capitalise the first letter. User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 10:54, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
Hmmm, yeah seems like the automatic translation templates automatically uncapitalise it. If you really wanted to implement this you'd have to use the {{lang}} template instead.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 13:49, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
I already did it once and... User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 14:19, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
Perhaps leave a hidden comment and use {{lang incomplete}}?
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 14:27, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
I've coppied how it looked oryginally but now it shows as red link 'VintageVintage'. Could you look what's wrong with this edit? Except equals sign. I've fixed it later. User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 13:21, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────Looks like you forgot to add a vertical bar, which made the link [[VintageVintage]].
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 13:31, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Mann Manor/Mountain Lab's history

I feel maps that we know more detailed information on the history of we should actually have written down so it isn't forgotten, such as for example, Mann Manor/Mountain Lab being an art contest was not the original plan in fact the maps used to have textures before but, that's just what I think. The American Boot (talk) 04:34, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

If you think this fact is worth and most player don't know, you can try adding it to Trivia section. Here is a more detailed Trivia guild.Profiteer(奸商)the tryhard (talk) 05:07, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
I'm not sure where this Trivia came from or if there is any source for. The Art Pass Contest page states that Robin Walker said they had a map that hadn't been worked on for a while and they didn't have time to do an art pass on it (which means the map just had dev textures).
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 21:34, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

Weapon articles mentioning taunts that aren't kill taunts

I've noticed a few articles for weapons mentioning that those weapons have a unique taunt that is not a kill taunt, or a variation of the default weapon for that slot (which is still not a kill taunt). These are the Lollichop, which mentions it has a unique taunt based on a scene from Meet the Pyro, and the Third Degree and Neon Annihilator, which mention the added guitar sounds, respectively. In comparison, the Cow Mangler 5000, Scottish Resistance, and Ullapool Caber, which also have unique taunts, do not mention them since they're not kill taunts, and the Vita-Saw, which has has a variation of the default taunt, does not mention said variation.

I think we should remove these notes from the Lollichop, Third Degree, and Neon Annihilator, as they are already all noted in the Pyro taunts page.

Speaking of the Pyro taunts page, I think we can move the "as in Meet the Pyro" comment from the Lollichop's description to a new Trivia section and add that Execution is also based in a Meet the Pyro scene (which is not mentioned). - BrazilianNut (talk) 16:45, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

I think variants on an existing taunt should be mentioned, such as different sounds (such as the Third Degree/Neon Annihilator adding guitar sounds and the Vita-Saw having different melodies being played), but the non-kill taunt shouldn't be mentioned (no note about the Lollichop taunt. Although seeing as it's unique to that weapon, I think the Trivia can stay).
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 17:14, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

Main menu Smissmas 2023 header localization

'Smissmas 2023' is localized but 'December 7 - January 7' is not. Is it possible to localize it too? User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 10:29, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

See Dictionary common strings.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 13:37, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
Thanks. User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 14:19, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Link of the wiki team fortress energie drink don't work

[[1]] you see this page on the wiki contain a team fortress wiki energie drink with a link for have it but it don't work and is not secure, can someone help me ? The preceding unsigned comment was added by Nonolemage (talk) • (contribs) 2023-12-21, 13:46 UTC

Please sign your messages using ~~~~.
The website appears to be down and no archive of it exists, so unless someone here happens to have a copy we can't do much.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 13:46, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

Multiple Suggestions related to Infobox, etc

Hi. I have been wanting to write this in the past, but, well, finally here it is. I have a couple suggestions about things related to infobox, and other things to make the design of the Wiki flow better on certain articles. I will be posting here as it covers a multitude of topics, as opposed to posting each one of them on their respective templates. When adding "Support" and "Not Support" on your responses, please make sure to add the number (and letter) behind to specify what you are supporting (or not supporting) as a change (like: "1-c"). With that said, let's get going:


1) Implement a way on the Item infobox template where if a style or class has only one team-color compared to other styles with team-colors, include an icon in the middle of both teams. For instance:

a) The Heavy variant of the Team Captain only has one color, but the page right now includes a duplicate of the RED variant as a workaround. What I suggest is doing this: https://i.imgur.com/YgQHk5z. Make the Heavy variant only one file, and center it. It should be pretty clear that because of the image is in the middle, is that it looks like that on both teams.

b) For items with styles that only has one color (not team-colored), do the same thing as well. In the example of Close Quarters Cover, include the "Alert" style on the infobox in the middle of the "RED" and "BLU" sections of the infobox, something like this: https://i.imgur.com/lARBQME.

c) For items that are not team-colored, but have class-specific variants, include a new part colored in grey called "Both Teams", and include each image on the middle as well. For example, the Dead Little Buddy have 3 model variants, one for Pyro, one for Demoman, and the other for the remaining classes. The idea is this: https://i.imgur.com/xPD9PMO.

d) Although I do not have a mock-up right now, I thought of also doing the same as above for items that has only one color. So, for instance, the Jumper's Jeepcap would have a "Both Teams" section, and it would include the "UNPAINTED" variant on the center. Items with styles with just one color, like Mustachioed Mann, would be similar to Dead Little Buddy, including each style on the infobox, alongside their names. Items like Carl that has no styles, but is neutral-colored, would also have the "Both Teams" part.


2) Get rid of the current "2D" images of Weapons, and use "Item icons" instead. The 2D weapon images are not consistent throughout the Wiki. They have different lighting, different angles, and so on. What I suggest is doing something similar to another Wiki I also contributed (one related to a TF2 sourcemod): https://i.imgur.com/vbvPbGP. This looks extremely clean, and every page would have in this angle. The 2D image only includes the RED variant, just like we use RED classes on our cosmetic previews.


3) Add the "RED" and "BLU" sections on the infobox for Weapon pages, even if the 3D image allows you to switch between teams. Right now, the RED variant is used as the 2D image (for team-colored weapons), while the 2D BLU variant awkwardly sits on the Gallery section. My suggestion would be this: https://i.imgur.com/dM9z7Oo


4) For cosmetic pages that has styles alongside class changes on the Painted Variants table, include additional buttons that include class icons. The idea is to remove clutter on pages with a lot of tabs to choose from (see this page). In technical terms, the style buttons would be responsible to change the "style" part of the filename, while the class buttons would change the class part of the filename. If the first class is chosen, then the code needs to get rid of the class part of the filename, as the first class is always the default: https://i.imgur.com/QmQCLsK

a) Additionally, text could be placed on each row, one for "Style:", and the other for "Class:" for the second row, just so it's a little more intuitive and understandable for everyone.


5) Include "infobox images" for separate styles, and add buttons that let you change it. The idea is to include identical images (with identical classes and facial flexing), with the only thing changing the model. For example, Main Cast would look like this: https://imgur.com/a/OmTIYVs.


6) Include more sections on the Gallery for items with more than one Style. In the past, the Robot Chicken Hat page did include all 9 classes on the Gallery section, with 2 separate sections, one with the "Beak" style, and the other with "Beakless" style. It would follow the same rule as "5)", with both images looking identical facial-flex and pose-wise. Some pages like Dead of Night wouldn't include all classes on each section. Classes with lack of grenades wouldn't be there.

Edit: Some users asked for an example, so, when I talked about the Robot Chicken Hat, it originally looked like this. The images don't exist anymore, but you can still see how it looked like. When I wrote the suggestion, I thought something about that (though it could have been changed a little, like include an "Other" title for the remaining images that aren't related to the class images), but, after Swood's suggestion, I'd say that using Tabs would be more ideal, something akin to how we do on the Tournament Medal pages.

I did an example on my 2nd Sandbox page. I thought something about this: https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/index.php?title=User:Gabrielwoj/Sandbox2&oldid=3598538 (note that a couple images, namely the infobox team-colors, and paint cans, does not show up properly due to the page's name being different, if this were to be pasted onto the actual page, it would show just as fine). I decided to not make the Tabs centered as regular cosmetic pages are usually not centered, unlike Tournament Medals / Community Medal ones. I also decided to make the gallery width "485px", so it shows 3 images per row, and looks pretty nice and cool with whatever's below that does not require a Tabs section.


7) Lastly. Items that include noticeable team-color differences could also get "Single Color" paint can previews on both teams, even if the paint look identical on the area that is paintable. When Paints were first introduced, they were mostly applied to cosmetics that used the same texture on either team. Now, nowadays, we have cosmetics that include team-colored parts that are not paintable, alongside other parts that are. So, for instance, Brawling Buccaneer would have its Painted variants table from {{Painted variants}} to {{Painted variants full}}, and single color paint can previews for the BLU team would be made, to show how the paint looks like, and despite being painted in the same area, the rest of the item is in another color. Readers might want to know how an item looks on the BLU team. This would take a long time too make for the entirety of the Wiki, and would be a project that would require remaking some paint variants if they do not have Rotation values saved, or if there's another issue that doesn't make them 1:1, but I think it would look good, and useful as well.


8) For items that has several styles / classes on the infobox (such as Manndatory Attire, Beaten and Bruised and Boarder's Beanie‎), make the Infobox template show less of them by default, and include a button with a caption "↓ Show remaining ↓". If possible, make the last one have a "fade" effect, so it's perfectly clear what the button is about. My idea was to include at least 10 of these sections, then fade (because if it reaches 10 of these, it means there's more than one Style per class, where other pages would include 9 of these per class, though, it could be shortened if needed, but personally I would go with 10 sections before the button and fade shows up). It would look like this: https://i.imgur.com/jh6geu6


Edit: 9) Regarding the Styles section. If we include Styles on the infobox, even for items that look the same on either team, is it really necessary to include the "Styles" section on the page, alongside the table, if everything would be on the Infobox? It seems redundant to keep both of them, but, I'd only get rid of the Styles section after everything is added to the infobox, including the single-color Styles on it. Additionally, certain pages that has Styles that change between classes are a little confusing at the moment. Manndatory Attire has only Scout's styles being demonstrated on the table, despite each class changing the visuals.

a) Originally I was going to suggest a class-switcher button, similar to the "4)", but, if "1)" is implemented, I don't see any reason to keep the Styles section. Please let me know if you think there should be either: "An arrange of buttons that lets you change classes on the Styles table" or "Getting rid of the Styles section entirely as it would be redundant with all the styles on the infobox once the "1)" suggestion is implemented.

b) The only problem that getting rid of the Styles section would be problematic for items that has barely any difference unpainted, but has more notable differences when paintable. Items like Onimann mostly change its visuals when painted between styles, and if there's no section for it. However, the painted variants table, alongside the main summary on the top of the page, would both visually show the difference, as well would explain in text what each style does in terms of paint.


Please let me know your thoughts below. Notice that I'm not sure if I would be able to implement some of these suggestions, specially the ones for the "Item infobox" template. If there's enough support, I'd appreciate anyone who could implement suggested changes / additions. Headphones style when? - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 21:13, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

1. I think that section should be dedicated to showing off the team colours rather than different styles for different classes. If a cosmetic looks different on different classes I would prefer a different box for it similar to the "Styles" section.
2/3. That's fine by me, though I would also want to add a second button to it for the BLU variant rather than stuffing it in the Gallery.
4/5. I like this.
6. I like this, although I would suggest we use the {{Tabs}} template for it.
7. I like this too, but it would require a ton of work and I'm not sure we'd be able to make it through.
8. I'm not sure that I'm a fan of collapsing a bunch of them. I would prefer having them sorted by class instead similar to {{Tabs}}.
9. See answer on 1.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 21:59, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
1 Pictogram plus.png Agree - All of these changes look very nice, I don't have anything to say about them.
2 / 3 Pictogram question.png Not sure / changes - Would the change to using weapon icons include BLU weapon icons as well? If it does, I would rather have the 2D BLU image in the main infobox when you click on BLU and then switch to the 2D image instead of it being below the main image.
4 Pictogram plus.png Agree - This also looks nice.
5 Pictogram minus.png Disagree - I don't know how I feel about this, I feel like the painted variants sorta already accomplish the goal of knowing what the cosmetic would look like with the different styles. It would also take a lot of work to recreate a lot of infobox images just for this.
6 Pictogram minus.png Disagree - I have the same thoughts about this as 5, it would take a lot of work to redo a bunch of galleries when the styes / painted variants section already get the job done.
7 Pictogram plus.png Sorta Agree - This would look nice, however it would again take a lot of work to get done.
8 Pictogram plus.png Agree / changes - I like the idea, though I agree with what Swood said with that it would look better if it was just in tabs instead.
9 Pictogram question.png Not sure - I sort of agree with the idea of removing the styles section, but I also do like how there's a sort of simplified section for seeing all of the styles instead of it only being part of the infobox and painted variants.
Andrew360 Edit icon.png Speech typing.png Photo Badge Decal Example.png 03:27, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
1 Pictogram minus.png Disagree - Same reason with Swood, I think the style section should do the job.
2 Pictogram plus.png Agree - Good idea!
3 Pictogram plus.png Sorta Agree - Instead of taking space in infobox, Why don't we use the same button used on 3D images?
4 Pictogram plus.png Agree - Yes.
5 Pictogram plus.png Agree - Looks nice, but considered what Andrew says we might not getting those done in recent.
6 Pictogram plus.png Agree - We are gonna do a lot of work then I guess.
7 Pictogram plus.png Agree - Same with Andrew360
8 Pictogram question.png Not sure - Looks good, though yeah, why not use {{Tabs}}?
9 Pictogram question.png Disagree.. or Sorta Agree - If I have to choose one from infobox and style section, I would take style section. In my opinion the infoboxs shouldn't be too long and contain too much information, comparing to a small space on the right side of the page, I think the style section can display the information better. If 8 gets passed then I'm fine with it too. (I just don't want to see infobox gets longer than the page itself.)
Profiteer(奸商)the tryhard (talk) 06:16, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
1 Pictogram plus.png Sorta Agree - Eh, doesn't matter to me either way.
2 Pictogram question.png Not sure - I wanna see how it would look first.
3 Pictogram plus.png Agree - I was kinda the one to start the whole "shoving the blue variant in the gallery" and have always wondered why there wasn't a color toggle for the 2D variants.
4 Pictogram plus.png Strongly agree - I wish it was like this since the beginning!
5 Pictogram question.png Not sure - I like the idea, but it will take a lot of work updating all the pages and such with the change.
6 Pictogram question.png Not sure - Same answer as 5.
7 Pictogram plus.png Agree - I'm only saying yes because we'll only have to edit the templates which are used across all translation pages.
8 Pictogram minus.png Somewhat disagree - There aren't very many items that have loads of different styles like this, I think I'd wait until we get something like a shirt or coat that includes a load of different styles (with team variants).
9 Pictogram minus.png Strongly disagree - Yeah it is necessary to have a styles section, because they mostly show examples of what they look like on the character wearing it. I know that the infobox has styles too, but they're only the raw models.
ShadowMan44 (talk) 01:52, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
So, after some user's responses, I'd like to mention a couple things. In regards to most of "2)" and "3)" responses, here's something I didn't mention. There would be a slight problem for items that are not team-colored if we just implemented a RED and BLU image switcher. The idea of using "Item icons" with the RED variant / neutral-color variant, would that it would make everything consistent and nice looking, While "RED" and "BLU" 2D images are usually very consistent too, the current "2D" images used on weapon pages are all over the place. Using the "Item icon" in conjunction with the RED and BLU team-colors means we could use already existing images on the Wiki, too. Not that I would have a problem if new images had to be created for the Neutral-Colored weapons, but, I still think that using the Item icons would highly benefit here, since how nice they look on weapons.
However, if we go with a RED and BLU switcher, what we could perhaps do is team-colored Item icons, yeah that would be awesome. Not only that, but we also have Item icons for Australiums, and, I even made Australium Festivized icons for TF2B a while ago, that is only used there and not on the Wiki, at the moment.
GrampaSwood 6) Yeah, I didn't think of this, but using Tabs on the Gallery would be pretty good, something we already do in Tournament Medal pages, actually.
GrampaSwood, Andrew360, Profiteer 7) While I can't promise I will be on the Wiki forever, and, with my statement on my userpage being correct (that I won't be as active in 2024), making BLU team-colored variants on "Standalone" models is a faster process than when making when loaded as a "weapon" (e.g.: Cosmetic loaded on a player model). The reason I did all the Boarder's Beanie paint variants is solely because it's a standalone model, I was able to generate the paint variants very quickly (and in high quality and proper colors). I can still do every single style and class on BLU as well, for the Single Color paint variants, for the Beanies, I just haven't done since we are still discussing this.
My Laptop is currently not being used. I have thought of the idea of making an HLMV machine, and letting paint variants being made while I do other things. This is something I thought about in the past, but I would require another monitor (which I can buy, no problem), but I also would need time, something I will not have that much starting 2024. However, I'm also in the point where I feel like I have contributed quite a lot for the Wiki already, so I'm kinda conflicted if I should really do this or not. I would only require to re-install Windows, re-configure HLMV (which can be painful), and things like that, before I can make it an idle HLMV machine that makes paint variants.
ShadowMan44 7) Correct, currently, the "Painted variants full" template states that mouse-hovered "Single colors" states that "due to how the cosmetic's textures are set up, it changes colors between teams". This would require to be changed appropriately, somehow, though I don't think that yet another Painted variants template should be made. It should be possible to just add a parameter of some sort.
Gabrielwoj, Andrew360 5) Despite me suggesting this, I was also not too sure about it, but I decided to post it as a matter of discussion. In most cases, Styles just change the look of an item, without changing the placement of the model, or the model itself. In some other cases, however, it does change something Liquor Locker, Pocket-Medes, etc. While it would be an interesting idea, and I do have a couple cosmetics with all styles made already, most of the rest would require to be remade. This could also be a little difficult for regular HLMV users, as refreshing the model viewer gets rid of the facial flex entirely, but not on HLMV++. While you can unload and load submodels without having to refresh, HLMV does read from "$color2" instead of "$colortint_base", which means if someone forgets about that on an older cosmetic, they'd need to refresh after fixing it from the .vmt.
Profiteer 9) That's a good point. I guess if the Styles section was more populated (actually shows differences between classes), then I suppose that items like Manndatory Attire and Boarder's Beanie wouldn't require that huge amount of styles being shown on the table. But then, there's another problem. Items already show their unpainted RED and BLU variants on the infobox, and how exactly could we categorize "exceptions" to be only on the Styles section if we follow your idea?
ShadowMan44 9) I'm not quite sure if I understood what you said. The styles table on both the Style section and infobox use the same exact images, same files, with some exceptions like the Dead of Night and Pocket-Medes. This is why I mentioned it being redundant, because in most cases, both sections use the same images. Headphones style when? - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 11:21, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
So Tekinz and Mgpt talked with me via Steam and Discord DMs, and I'd like to post their opinions on this. Tekinz asked me to post on my behalf, explaining what he told me instead of directly quoting him, while mgpt allowed me to directly translate what he told me. With that said, here's what they had to say:
Tekinz: He told me that he agrees with most of my proposed update and changes, while pin-pointing some specific numbers with further explanation. He adds that for "7)", it would be a huge amount of work, and we would need quite a few active image creators to be able to achieve it in a timely manner, but otherwise it would be a general improvement to the pages. On "8)", he adds that he has no real problems with and thinks it's pretty good, mentioning that if combined with "1)", it would look great. On "9)", he mentioned that it's probably a good idea considering how the Styles section is located pretty far on the page and that it would probably be better to have them focused to the infobox since it's much closer to the top, alongside the rest of relevant images. He further adds that the Styles section always seemed not as important since it was too close to the Trivia and Patch Notes, while also being beneath the huge Painted Variants table that overshadows it.
mgpt:
Pictogram plus.png Agree 1. Everything looks okay to me, if it's easy to implement;
Pictogram plus.png Agree 2. I did take a look on some weapons, and I agree in using "Item icons";
Pictogram plus.png Agree 3. I saw the comments, and Andrew360's idea, and I agree, it has my vote;
Pictogram plus.png Agree 4. You got my vote, very good;
Pictogram minus.png Disagree 5. I agree with Andrew360 and Profiteer, I don't think that it's worth the work, considering there's already images below on the infobox, alongside the painted variants;
Pictogram info.png Info 6. It ends up being the same as "5)", however, I'd like to see an example how it would look like;
Pictogram plus.png Agree 7. I'm not sure if I noticed completely, but would that be switching the template from "Painted variants" to "Painted variants full" In several cosmetics, like how it was done in Brigade Helm? If so, I don't see a problem;
Pictogram info.png Info 7. An idea to the template. Wouldn't it look better if it was something like this, with 2 buttons? https://i.imgur.com/LVXXb4C Or is it being done currently like it's on the page so it's possible to compare both teams at the same time? Probably that;
Pictogram plus.png Agree 8. I like the idea, however, the information still continue to be too deep on the page, wouldn't be better to only show 4 or 5, instead of 9?;
Pictogram info.png Info 9. a) "An arrange of buttons that lets you change classes on the Styles table". In the example of Beaten and Bruised, the images wouldn't be anymore on the infobox, correct?;
Pictogram info.png Info I like "8)"'s idea, but if "9)" is applied, then number "8)" is discarded. Headphones style when? - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 12:16, 3 January 2024 (UTC)
I also replied to mgpt regarding some of his questions, so I had the following to say:
7) On number "7)", it would be including previews like how it's done on "Single Color" paint cans on the BLU team, even if when they are applied on the same area, the paint color looks identical to the RED team. Currently, we only use "Painted variants full" in cases of items that has different colorization between teams, such as the case of Stout Shako;
7. a) I liked the idea of including RED and BLU on the top, it would be very intuitive. Post-thoughts: After re-reading his thoughts on this one, I saw that the original idea would be buttons, while I first thought they were simply two sections that would separate the teams more properly, visually. I thought if maybe that by doing so, we could include a faint red and a faint blue background to separate them both, and make the template a little more nice to look at, as currently there's a bunch of paint variants all included in one table.
8) In regards to the default quantity, it would still be discussed, but the main idea would be something that could be expanded to show the remaining. I finished the Boarder's Beanie images, and the infobox ended up being very lengthy. The table for Painted variants will probably change if "4)" is implemented.
9) The images would still stay on the infobox section, but the idea would be that on the Styles table, it would include an array of buttons with each of the classes icons, so it could be changed, similar to what it has been suggested on "4)". The only thing that, if "1)" is implemented, the Styles section may not be as necessary anymore. Headphones style when? - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 12:16, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── 1 Pictogram question.png Not sure It sure would be easy to implement but I feel this would discount the usefulness of the class gallery or style section.
2/3 Pictogram plus.png Agree It would clean up the inconsistencies from the 2D weapon images and make them extremely consistent. The item icons are used all over the wiki in subtle ways such as in crafting recipes or in big lists of weapons but it's time for those to be the defacto 2D image for weapons. Bring Shugo-style to the infobox!
4 Pictogram plus.png Agree Adding the class icons in place of the class name plus sorting the paint table by class would greatly improve the user experience. (I always stress when uploading paint galleries with multiple styles that I may upload to the incorrect style/class)
5 Pictogram minus.png Disagree On top of remaking all the infobox images being an immense amount of work, I feel this would also take away from the usefulness of the style box.
6 Pictogram question.png Not sure I would be more open to this than #5 but I often find that the class gallery images often take me the most time to complete and be happy with. Trying to find good and unique poses and appropriate facial flexes for all 9 classes takes me a fair amount of time. I wish I was faster at it.
7 Pictogram question.png Not sure I kind of agree on this point but I feel it could just be on a cosmetic-by-cosmetic basis. Like we do now, I think, we could only implement this on hats that would benefit from a full paint gallery.
8 Pictogram plus.png Agree I agree with the others on this point, {{Tabs}} would be great for this. I am more for moving the class styles out of the infobox and moving them to the style box. I feel more and more pages suffer from having a long infobox with the inclusion of more all-class, multi-style hats. If they were moved to the style box with tabs, I think many pages would look a whole lot cleaner and compact.
9 Pictogram minus.png Disagree See #8
H20verdrive (talk) 01:22, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

I've been mildly intimidated, procrastinating voting on this for a week, but here we go:
1. Pictogram plus.png Agree Very good stuff.
2. Pictogram question.png Abstain Not sure about this, it might seem awkward on some items. Like others have said I'd want to see it first.
3. Pictogram plus.png Weak Agree Seems necessary, but I wonder if there's a more cohesive way to display them.
4. Pictogram plus.png Agree Looks nice, more visual and less clutter.
5. Pictogram plus.png Weak Agree Seems alright.
6. Pictogram question.png Abstain It seems a bit clunky and as someone said, might take a lot of work, but theoretically seems useful.
7. Pictogram plus.png Weak Agree As H20verdrive said, probably an item-by-item basis (maybe a "limited run" at first for the articles that need it most?) is best.
8. Pictogram plus.png Agree Looks cool; long infoboxes do need help, but I think it's most contingent upon all-class items.
9. Pictogram minus.png Weak Disagree As all others said, this needs tweaking and removing Styles might be too radical, BUT the "arrange of buttons" might work.
Overall, if I had to give a vote for the whole package, Pictogram plus.png Agree, with tweaking.--Leaderboard class allclass.png Akolyth (talk) 02:21, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
Well, we got a lot of responses with this discussion, thank you everyone for reading and replying. I guess we could start making some of these proposed changes? Ones that got the most positive votes, while discarding ones that didn't get much positive reception. Perhaps let's talk what should be the best options according to your guys voting. I don't have time to actually write up new template codes and stuff at the moment, however some already have templates available for that (#7), and others should be a little more straightforward in changing (I would imagine that including the Shugo style icons for weapons be quite straightforward, if that would go through). Headphones style when? - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 00:26, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
Swood suggested me to make a table having total votes from everyone:
Suggestion 1 Pictogram plus.png Agree: 7 Pictogram minus.png Disagree: 1 Pictogram question.png Abstain: 2
Suggestion 2 Pictogram plus.png Agree: 7 Pictogram minus.png Disagree: 0 Pictogram question.png Abstain: 1
Suggestion 3 Pictogram plus.png Agree: 9 Pictogram minus.png Disagree: 0 Pictogram question.png Abstain: 1
Suggestion 4 Pictogram plus.png Agree: 10 Pictogram minus.png Disagree: 0 Pictogram question.png Abstain: 0
Suggestion 5 Pictogram plus.png Agree: 4 Pictogram minus.png Disagree: 4 Pictogram question.png Abstain: 2
Suggestion 6 Pictogram plus.png Agree: 4 Pictogram minus.png Disagree: 1 Pictogram question.png Abstain: 4
Suggestion 7 Pictogram plus.png Agree: 8 Pictogram minus.png Disagree: 0 Pictogram question.png Abstain: 1
Suggestion 8 Pictogram plus.png Agree: 8 Pictogram minus.png Disagree: 1 Pictogram question.png Abstain: 2
Suggestion 9 Pictogram plus.png Agree: 2 Pictogram minus.png Disagree: 3 Pictogram question.png Abstain: 4

My own votings have been included too. I agree with all of the changes I proposed except "5)", which I only suggested since I already had some Style images laying around on my computer, ready to be uploaded if it were to be accepted. Headphones style when? - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 17:49, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Userbox, and creator page

Hey! I have a question, how i add userbox and how i add some decoration to my page like evryone did ? Nonolemage (talk) 13:21, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

For userboxes see Team Fortress Wiki:User info boxes. Otherwise, the rest of the decoration is up to you. You may be interested in {{User infobox}}.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 13:27, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
Thanks for the info box ! But how exactly i decorate my page ? Like how i use custom image or something like thats ? Did you have a page thats can help me to do this ?Nonolemage (talk) 13:59, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
Help:Images may help you with how to place images, for images to use, simply upload them using the upload page. The correct format for images only used on your User page is "User Nonolemage [file name]", so for example "User Nonolemage profile picture.png" or "User Nonolemage scout loadout.jpg". When uploading them on the upload page, include [[Category:User images]] in the summary box. This should be done for every image you want to use on your User page.
As for more complicated design, that is usually done using CSS and/or Javascript. I can't help you much with that.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 14:08, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
Thanks you a lot ! You realy helped me ! Nonolemage (talk) 14:10, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

Civilian Image

Should we change the image of the Civilian ? Because it's the scout in A pose but the civilain got some real texture thats can be use and found Nonolemage (talk) 12:54, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

That is how the Civilian class looked when it was still available in TF2, Civilian (Classic) is the TFC version.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 12:57, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
Oh, but i play a mod of tf2 (tf2c) thats show a finished model of the civilain so maybe i can add a picture of it in the galery for show what it looked finished ? Or it's not important ?Nonolemage (talk) 13:04, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
That's not an official version of it, that's fan-made. No Civilian model or textures has been made for TF2.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 13:11, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

Weapon in user page

Hey it's AGAIN me ! I see some people have a list of weapon they used for evry class but i don't know how to do this, can someone help me ? Nonolemage (talk) 07:32, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Well, you could try learning how to use wikitables, there are also templates like Template:Backpack item and Template:User weapon checklist you could use to this effect.
Luno 🪐🌕 Talk / Contributions / Team 03:20, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

Allweapons Nav template

Hi! I've created two mockups as potential replacements for the current Allweapons Nav template. I'd like to get your opinion. You can check out the templates on my sandbox user page (Nav 1 and Nav 2). The "Secondary" label for "All classes" in Nav 2 appears a bit off, and I'm having trouble fixing it. Thanks! Mgpt (talk) 02:59, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

I don't really see what's wrong with the current one.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 11:59, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
Outdated/It's not a "real" nav like the others (Hat/Tool Nav). If someone else comments please compare both so you can see the differences Mgpt (talk) 16:05, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
I did compare both, but it doesn't exactly answer what's wrong with the current one. If people really wanted it changed I'd go for Nav 1, but I would still like to see stock and non-stock separated.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 16:16, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
There's already a nav for them on the weapon page and stock is always the first (they can be in italic, would that work?). I personally prefer Nav 2 because it is actually a nav (not a table) but also consistent with Hat and Tool Nav. Edit: About the availability strings, they shouldn't be there, especially because they're outdated and were added more than 10 years ago. Definitely not the purpose of the template. Mgpt (talk) 20:11, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
I'd prefer for them to be separated regardless, if only in a little box above all of them or with a line separating them. Both the current one and both your versions are technically tables either way, I think a differently structured nav doesn't necessarily make it not a nav or somehow inferior.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 20:39, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Personally, I prefer Nav 1. I like the structure of the current Weapon Nav the way it is, I just don't like the availability strings cluttering things up, and the taunts needlessly listing which weapons they're for. Nav 1 simplifies things in a way that's easier to read, certainly. I'd also be fine with Stock weapons being separated, perhaps with a "Stock" header and then a line break before the others.

Incidentally, re: "the 'Secondary' label for 'All classes' in Nav 2 appears a bit off, and I'm having trouble fixing it."

  • That should be a "Melee" label, as you've probably realized by now.
  • It's looking off because the single list of weapons you've used isn't enough to fill out the space of the column. You'd need at least three lists to fill out the space that the "All Classes" column takes, so the single list you gave sits in the middle. — User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png 10:21, 17 January 2024 (UTC)
I made some changes, thanks for the input Mgpt (talk) 03:18, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
Nav 1 seems almost set to me, I like the Normal quality grey indication, while still being separated by slot. My only slight nitpick now would be that I'd prefer if the non-stock weapons were organized by release order -- at the moment, reskins of stock are still at the top of the non-stock section, which doesn't make as much sense, now that we've agreed on separating stock into its own box. — User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png 03:33, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
I initially added them randomly from the Weapons page, but I'll definitely reorganize them by release order :D I may scrap the all class section, the idea was not to repeat weapons, but we have the Shotgun, so... Mgpt (talk) 03:45, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
Updated the template Mgpt (talk) 19:01, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

About the 2023 leak

Hello ! Im a translator of the unused content and i see on the social media a leak from 2023 of some map and iteam thats has been abandoned or unfinished. So i was thinking if i can work on it for make some page on the unused content section. (The leak is from a valve employer) Nonolemage (talk) 15:52, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

As long as you source all of these changes and abide by the leaked content policy. This leak was also not from a Valve employee, as far as I know.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 15:57, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
So if i understand, i donnt have the right to put any picture of anything if it's from a leak ? And by the way, how did the code for cited content from leak work ? And if it's not from a valve employer, from who it's from ? (Sorry for all my question and thanks for anwsering me ;-;) Nonolemage (talk) 16:08, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
Don't link to any places that host leaked content (so do not link to a Tweet containing a picture of a leaked model, or containing a link to a Google Drive with the leaked content, etc.), do not directly upload media of leaked content or copy-paste code, and do not link to or upload media of recreations of leaked content. All the information you put on the page should contain a reference to where you got it from (see the examples on the policy). It's likely someone with a Source engine license that leaked everything.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 16:19, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
I understand, thanks a lot for your help again and i will do evrything you say ! Nonolemage (talk) 16:38, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

Community Medal Nav (closed)

I feel a bit lost with the medal scheme and how it has been handled. Where exactly is this template supposed to be used? I know that {{Hat Nav}} lists the same contents, which I recently updated. I think we should either use this one and remove the medal section from Hat Nav or just use Hat Nav, no? Thanks in advance Mgpt (talk) 21:28, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

With the ever-increasing MvM medals, we should remove it from the Hat Nav and keep this one. The Hat Nav will cause pages to be too large at some point.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 21:29, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
Would adding an 'Other' section with two links for Community and Tournament medals work then? With this approach, we also need to update the "Competitive play" Nav. Also, both templates use images, is there a specific reason for that?
Edit: They're also cosmetic items, so they should still be mentioned, in my opinion Mgpt (talk) 21:40, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
I would put the 2 links in the hat nav, then keep the medal nav separately. The comp nav can get rid of it imo, and just having a tournament medal link. I prefer having this separate one.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 22:07, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
I like the template, but it's too big. We don't need images for all the medals: they are exactly the same and this won't scale well if Valve ever allows new medals again (see comp nav). — Tark 00:16, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
Disagree with "they're exactly the same," they're clearly, almost all of them, not exactly the same, but I know that my opinions about all this don't matter too much anyhow. I would be fine with listing the names of the medals instead, but then they'd all have the name of the operation over and over again, and it would be very clunky to look at. That's how it was in the promo nav to begin with, and that's what I wanted to change -- but then, that would require extra name strings that are just "Shimmering Souvenir", for example, and Swood already said that was too much. The images were my way of compromising on that, considering the Competitive nav already did that, but then that's wrong too, so whatever, I can't do any of this properly. — User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png 03:47, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
They are all the same just with a unique hex paint the MVM ones have been reused over and over, there is no model difference between them other than the paint, If the medals were "different" they would have unique models to go alongside them, but back on subject, theres so many of these damn things it would be nice to be able to filter them out entirely.
Cheddar (talk) 13:57, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── By "exactly the same", I meant all the MvM medals that share the same model but have a different paint applied. An average user doesn't care if the medal is pink or green, they are way more interested in the model itself. The same applies to the comp nav: we don't have an icon for every season of each tournament, only for different models.
I personally don't see how extra strings are too much and I agree that the icons look way better than whatever is going on with the comp nav template. My point here is that this template currently is too big and has too much repetitive information to work as a navbox.
Also, I know that it is common for us to get attached to our creations (in this case, the template), but suggested changes to a template are usual business. Please don't take it personally, your opinions always matter. — Tark 14:06, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

If I remember correctly, the "too many strings" were in reference to another nav, where I suggested removing them and replacing them with links to the operation page's rewards section. There were a few medals for each operation with a link to the same section each time. Having too many strings was in reference to the promo nav, not the one we're talking about.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 14:40, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
So if it's suddenly not too much trouble to localize different name strings for use within this nav specifically, for reasons I won't pretend to understand, nor do I care to ask about further, I propose that if we absolutely must, we strip the pictures and the paint splats, and in the case of MVM operations, we have the link to the operation, and then within that category, plain-text names of just the medals, stripped of the operation name and years, when necessary. (That is, "Operation Galvanized Gauntlet Bejeweled Bounty 2023" becomes "Bejeweled Bounty", and so on. Cleaner, easier to read, and you already get that it's supposed to be within that operation.
I would fight for the pictures, but it's clear that's not about to happen for me, and it's best for me to give it up and take the bullet, like I always have to. I'll believe that my opinions always matter when they start being correct ones to have. — User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png 14:54, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
ThatHatGuy I'm not against your template creation but I searched a little more and its being used with {{Hat Nav}} so we need to decide which one we gonna use, because currently, they have the same contents. Given the opinions above, I think a more neutral solution would be to move the Hat Nav contents to these two templates, so they stay similar to each other. Mgpt (talk) 18:35, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
That didn't matter when some of those event pages, for years, had both the Hat Nav and the Promo Nav on them. The Promo Nav, by definition, has the same stuff that's already on the Hat Nav. Community medals used to be listed individually on there too. Now all of a sudden, there's a new nav, that I made because Swood wanted to separate the Community Medals into their own page, and suddenly, that's something worthy of being dissected and put under a microscope.
Fix it how you all want. I've said my piece about it, but clearly I don't know what I'm doing. — User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png 00:53, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
closed given the recent discussion Mgpt (talk) 02:26, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Trivias without confirmations

Since recent policy change now requiring trivias to have linked confirmations from contributors, there are still many old items that have trivias based on speculations (especially items made by Valve which can't really be confirmed). What should be done with them? User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 09:07, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

Leave them, we'd have to clear out pretty much most trivia sections otherwise. Unless you find proof of the contrary, just leave them.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 11:02, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
What about this one? A promo item that directly references a game from said promotion, but trivia is about completly different character. User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 08:06, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
I believe it's a invalid trivia, though changing the name of character and game would be better compare to completely remove the trivia Profiteer the tryhard (talk|contribute) 08:20, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
"It is based on one of the male soldiers' hairstyles in the video game UFO: Enemy Unknown" in the first paragraph. User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 08:43, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
Yeah my bad, mention it 2 times is kind of surplus just remove it. Profiteer the tryhard (talk|contribute) 09:03, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
Promo items should have their reference stated in the intro, not Trivia. Feel free to remove, it is possible that the Crafty Hair is modelled after hair that is modelled after said character.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 12:24, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Reports/Missing template translations reporting erroneous data

It seems like a very handy feature (as handy as the entire reports page), and oddly enough, it seems to report the same thing for all languages (34 templates), and according to the quick look I did, none of them report missing translations?
I don't know who would be able to fix this, if it's even broken to begin with, maybe Darkid?
Do note that I didn't touch template translating very much in my time here, I looked up the line numbers using Notepad++. Luno 🪐🌕 Talk / Contributions / Team 03:05, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

For the first result it looks like fr is not declared in the {{Translation switching| line which probably leads to it showing up in that report. I'm going to guess it's the same for all the other ones. Jh34ghu43gu (talk) 03:10, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
I can take a look, thanks for the ping. Darkid « TalkContribs » 03:10, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
Damn, that was as quick as Dustbowl backcap, I sort of expected the "declare thing", but I doubt each of the members would forget to put it in, if that's the issue.
I would also expect hundreds of entries with varying results for every lang, not 34. Luno 🪐🌕 Talk / Contributions / Team 03:24, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
Hmm, looks like I might've screwed up when I changed the regex on Feb 1st (or at least, page history shows a major diff there). Fixing that now, should be corrected tomorrow. Darkid « TalkContribs » 03:59, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
+622,418 bytes coming through, seems about right! Looks like it's working again, thanks Darkid. Luno 🪐🌕 Talk / Contributions / Team 01:52, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

A technical request for "Used by" template

"Localized versions of this template are not necessary." Well, they actually are needed, due to inflection of words in some languages. For Polish, "{{Used by|all}}" and "{{Used by|Soldier|etc.}}" sound fine, but "{{Used by|all-except|" needs translation switching, as it sounds very bad when names of classes are not inflected. I don't know about other languages, but some may require it too. For Polish, here's how it should look to be grammatically correct (only for "{{Used by|all-except|"):

Scout = Skauta
Soldier = Żołnierza
Pyro = Pyro
Demoman = Demomana
Heavy = Grubego
Enginner = Inżyniera
Medic = Medyka
Sniper = Snajpera
Spy = Szpiega

User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 14:07, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

These requests should really be on the template's talk page instead.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 14:13, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
Thanks. I've moved it there. User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 08:28, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

Where can I interact with the community?

Is there a discord or something to interact with the community? Thank You.

QS Quark (talk) 13:49, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

You can join the IRC if you want. There is no Discord (and we also won't make one).
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 13:59, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

April fool's?

I've been absent a bit because of health issues lately, sorry, but I noticed there's no April Fools thing this year there? :(--Leaderboard class allclass.png Akolyth (talk) 02:43, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Probably, yes. Since I didn't notice anything relate to April fools event other than the page itself (normally there will be someone create a April fools sandbox page before April fools event).Profiteer the tryhard (talk|contribute) 03:45, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
The only thing that was planned was a patch, no other efforts were made, unfortunately.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 08:17, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

TFC logo feedback

Hey folks,

We're considering creating a special version of the wiki logo for Classic pages because we think it would add a nice touch. You can check out our current iteration here: logo example.

This logo would only be visible on pages with the "(Classic)" suffix, so it shouldn't affect other types of pages (TF2 and QTF, in particular - we'll of course test it beforehand, similar to our current localized logos test).

But what I'm really here for is to gather feedback. Do you have any strong opinions against it? Maybe a new design in mind? Please let us know! — Tark 14:42, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Pictogram plus.png  I like it, for obvious reasons. I've been using it myself as a subtitute for the regular logo for a while now, and I've grown quite used to it, so I can personally say that you'll get used to it even if it looks a bit odd from the start.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 14:45, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
Pictogram plus.png  I like it too, I feel like it adds to the fact that this is the Team Fortress wiki, not just the Team Fortress 2 wiki, in a way. Personally, I don't think I would have any negative opinions against it, since a lot of times you're focused more on an article than the top left corner of the screen. Either way, I feel like it's a welcome, if small, touch to the wiki. ♡ JupiterSphere ♡ ( ◡‿◡ *) ⊱✿⊰ Talk To Me! ⊱✿⊰ 14:51, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
Pictogram plus.png  Mediarch User Mediarch PFP.pngTalkMy Edits 17:02, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
I see no issues with the logo.
CheddarTalk 19:44, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
I've enabled the logo for logged-in users. Please let me know if you find any issues.
If everything goes smoothly, I plan to push it sometime in July, along with translations. — Tark 21:06, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Zombies,Saxton, and V-Script Classes

(if it doesn’t appear, this is signed by Deluxe Fortress, Saturday May 18 2024) (Skip first paragraph to skip the bone and directly to the meat) In the official Zombie Infection game mode, the classes don’t act the same as zombies. They act slightly or completely different from what they were or are from abilities to their role in the team. This ranges from exaggerating their features (such as scout, who has even less health for holy speed) to heavy and engineer (heavy becoming a building buster; engineer becoming a building buster ) and have different stats alongside their main abilities, mainly the (almost) universal 25+ max health increase. They each act very differently and uniquely compared to their human counterparts.

So my suggestion is to make 9 pages for each of the zombie once mercenaries because of how differently they act and what makes them tick. This is a bit much and a bit of points can be bounced back and forth if this is reasonable or not. I can see the point I made first, zombies should have their own pages because of how differently they act. But then again, listing all the stats and finding a zi_ Zombie image that can be turned a full 360• will be extremely tedious. However, same can be said for the first basic human 9 classes.

If the first point is made or not, I’d like to bring up the rest of V-Script and VSH. Saxton Hale, though taking heavy as a place holder, is 100% not heavy, he is Saxton Hale. So should he get his own page separate from the Comic Illustration page and striped directly from the VSH page to have his own page? It’d be easier for navigating and the Disambiguation page would have to be updated, but I can see it being better as its own page so details like Hammer Units Per Blank can be listed and trivia can be separated and therefor shortened if needed. This would require more work, but I think this is more important than the zombies since he’s basically the 11th class.

My 3rd point is community maps. Certain maps like Crasher and CP_Carrier have the classes be drastically different and could have their own page, but is definitely not necessary in my eyes.

My final point is if we get a new gamemode or map that introduces a new class,mechanic,items, or maybe Ms. Pauling in the future illustrated in VSH, do they deserve their own page (or fuse pages, as I could see the comic and gameplay version being fused), get their own content pages?

Thank you for reading, sorry it was long, from Deluxe Fortress DeluxeFortress (talk) 03:14, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

Just asking, anyone know how to get to the point faster? I kinda need that skill right now and the Goliath of text above me kinda concerns me cause I don’t want to put a dang TDA about what an optimal mask is and why it says that on pyros “nose”, and suggestions are appreciated, ty DeluxeFortress (talk) 04:18, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
Pictogram minus.png  I don't think this is a good idea, as game mode-specific info should be on the game mode itself. On the game mode articles right now it's already adequately covered and there isn't nearly as much information on these classes as there is on the regular classes. Regular classes have many unique weapons, unique personalities, many cosmetics, an associated storyline, unique gameplay aspects, etc. For the Zombie classes they would purely be a description of their abilities and the shared universal changes. Looking at the table on Zombie Infection, this would amount to an article that's taken up more by pictures than by actual information.
As for Saxton Hale, he would have a bit more information but it would largely be Saxton Hale with the information from Versus Saxton Hale merged into a single section. I don't think merging the articles is a good idea, personally.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 10:01, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
I can fully see your point, I don’t have anything to say after that, but I still want other people to reply so I can see everyone’s opinions. Thank you GrampaSwood.
DeluxeFortress (talk) 18:10, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
Pictogram minus.png  I also agree with what GrampaSwood said. I think the specific stats and what makes them tick seems to be covered in the main Zombie infection page. Anything not mentioned in the Zombie infection page could be covered in a little more detail in the Community Zombie Infection strategy page. I think it's better to keep all the gamemode specific information concentrated instead of spreading it out across a bunch of seperate pages that wouldn't have a ton of detail to go over. Same thoughts apply to Saxton Hale. Mediarch User Mediarch PFP.pngTalkMy Edits 18:31, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
Remember to indent your replies with :, and also to add your signature after your message rather than before.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 18:13, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
I’m still new to this, thank you regardless and have a good morning, or evening, or night I don’t know your time zone. DeluxeFortress (talk) 18:33, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
To Mediarch, I couldn’t see your reply because of internet issues so here I am now. I completely did not think about the strategy pages, I just remembered those as the competitive players haven. Thank you, and also, should the Editing:Style apply to comments, replies, etc? What I mean by that is “lol,ty,r u ok”..etc in replies like these?
DeluxeFortress (talk) 18:40, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
No, the style guides don't apply to the discussions, you can write however you want as long as you remain friendly. See Help:Discussion for the guidelines instead.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 18:44, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
Thank you (for the third time today), I have now read Help:Discussion and I’ll look into the help pages for answers instead of discussion. Seriously cannot thank you enough today

Dell (talk) 19:21, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

Homewrecker and The Zombie Engineer

In Zombie Infection, the Engineer has the ability to throw and EMP grenade that can disable Sentries to help his team push through human defenses. However, the Homewrecker and the Neon Annihilator can destroy Sappers. So can the 2 melees destroy the Engineer’s grenades or is the Homewrecker a direct downgrade in Zombie Infection as no Spies can use the Sapper? The main reason I’m asking this is because I was going to add a strategy for the Neon and I didn’t want to edit the main strategy I was going to put and have to put the possible destroying grenades mechanic after, where I’d be going back to the edit I just made and changing it to add another. To put in simple terms, I’ve 2 strategies for a weapon, I know I can put 1, but not the other, so I went here to see if anyone knew the answer to this question here. I’m guessing “probably not”, but I don’t want to fully shut down the possibility and have to edit an edit which I learned was unfavorable. Sorry this was long. Dell (talk) 00:01, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

Seeing as the EMP Grenade is not a Sapper, it's safe to assume they can't be used to destroy it. Also, be careful with spaces in front of talk page entries, as they put the whole thing in a box with may mess with formatting (e.g. indents can't be used).
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 10:18, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

#savetf2

Deer wiki admins. there is a petition going around supporting #savetf2 on the website save.tf. I think this wiki should support this petition by advertising the site on the main page I think this would help the petition a lot and by proxy help TF2 in general a lot so if the admins (or whoever edits the main page) were to do so I would be very happy. Yours truly Manman24 (talk) 00:44, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

I feel as though this isn't neccessary. Whilst it is a nice sentiment, it doesn't really have a place in the wiki. Specifically, not promoted at the Main Page, or anything that is high traffic. What you can do, however, is promote it on your userpage to show your support! Cheers — jestie. Beggar's Bazooka.png Talk Speech voice.png 02:33, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
Hello! We appreciate the invitation, but participating in this petition as a group goes against our Community engagement policy. That said, all wiki members are free to support community activities personally, as long as it doesn't imply official endorsement from the wiki.
Thank you for understanding. — Tark 03:23, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

wav files downloading instead of opening in new tab in Firefox

There seems to be an issue with wav files in Firefox. Check this post. It seems to be an issue only with wav files. For mp3 files it works as usual · Ashe (talk) 17:51, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

I can confirm, as a Firefox user, this does happen. .mp3 files have the native player, so I'm not sure what the issue is.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 17:53, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

Allowing use of certain images for a Fandom Wiki

Hi, I made this account a few days ago mainly for this, but I run a Action-Figure-related wiki on Fandom, and I've been wanting to make a page based on the Neca products (figures, plushies) & ThreeA/ThreeZero figures for Team Fortress 2. I bring this up because I'd like to include images of the actual in-game cosmetic items you receive with the figures, and was wondering if I could be granted permission to use the images of those cosmetics from here. (I.E, the Brigade Helm & Respectless Rubber Glove cosmetics that come with the Blu & Red Neca Pyro's)

I'd also like to add that my pages would not be copies of the ones here, I'm fully against Plagiarism & any act of it, and I would gladly note on the file summaries that the images come from here, and include the site as part of a "special thanks" list I feature on the main page for people who've assisted/contributed in helping my site (If wanted). Thank you for yout time, Aiden the ToyManiac (talk) 21:43, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

See our Terms of Use for the license used on images. Generally, we allow usage of our images freely (but if you transfer them from Wiki to Wiki it would be nice if you gave credit where you got the image from. Link to the specific file).
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 21:47, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
Of course, I'd be glad to, and Thank you, It's greatly appreciated. I shall note the site on the image files & on the pages/main page. Thank you for your time, Aiden the ToyManiac (talk) 05:49, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

Allweapons Nav follow-up

Hi everyone, I updated this template not long ago to be more user-friendly (as previously discussed). Given that it uses a format not found elsewhere, I modified it to align with the general format used in other navigation templates - it also matches the Weapons page, which I hadn't noticed before.

P.S. Keep in mind that this format is used everywhere. I'm not creating anything new, just aiming for consistency . Mgpt (talk) 00:58, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

I think I still prefer the current nav over the new one.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 01:06, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Melee page

I've created a new page here. It intents to document the melee system, as we don't have one, but we do for Hitscan and Projectiles. Currently, this is just a redirect to the Weapons page, which doesn't explain anything about how the melee system actually works.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 11:49, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

I think this looks rather good, I'd say something like this should have been done a while ago as the only somewhat "in-depth" explanation on melee weapons is their damage charts.
CheddarTalk 12:59, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
Pictogram plus.png Approve, is good. Makes sense to have a melee page.Mediarch User Mediarch PFP.pngTalkMy Edits 14:47, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

Weapons audio

Now over the years, some people have added all the weapon audios (one I specifically remembered is this one). My idea would not be to have them featured on the page and to not feature any "generic" weapon sounds (e.g. "draw" sounds, as shown in the example), but exclusively feature unique weapon sounds. This would also be linked through {{Related audio}} the Gallery. Let me know what you think.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 00:29, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

I would sorta need to see an example of what it would end up looking like in practice to really form an opinion but I think including the more unique weapon sounds in some way would be good. A fair ammount of the unique sounds are already included in the main text of certain weapon articles. Off the top of my head, Dead Ringer has ("The Dead Ringer uncloaks with a very loud and distinct sound.") and Machina has something similar for the fanfare sound on a penetration kill. Not sure if it's really neccisary to have a dedicated section for the sounds if they could simply be integrated into the text itself instead. I'm not exactly opposed to the idea in general but I would kinda need to see how it'd be implemeted.
Also it might be worth making a Sound Effects page? Maybe? There's lots of sounds and having them mostly organized in one place could be sorta handy though I might be severly under estimating just how many sounds there are. Mediarch User Mediarch PFP.pngTalkMy Edits 01:16, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
I like this idea, but I feel it would be better to include even the seemingly generic sounds like draw sounds, as some weapons do feature unique audio where many weapons do not (i.e. the Sharp Dresser having a unique draw sound).
A potential way of including all weapon sounds, plus generic, could be by providing every weapon sound for Stock weapons, and any sounds shared with those by non-Stock weapons aren't included in said weapon's audio section? (or just link back to the stock weapon the sounds are shared from.)
Kibblekip T | C 02:49, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
I agree with adding audio to certain weapon pages, but only if the sound is unique and not just the generic impact sound, so for example the HHHH would have an audio section but not something like the Bottle and Scottish Handshake, since they both use the same sounds.
CheddarTalkContribs 12:58, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
As I mentioned, there wouldn't be an actual section on the page, it would feature the linked template in the Gallery section instead. Buildings#Gallery has an example of how this looks. With "generic weapon sounds" I meant that sounds shared across multiple weapons would not be in each category. For example, a bullet ricochet sound is used on some materials, but this would not be on all bullet-based weapons. A draw sound for the Sharp Dresser is unique, so would be fine to include. Regarding a sound effects page, Audio cues serves that purpose. I don't think generic sound effects should be hosted, as I don't think the Wiki should be a file host for every sound in the game. That's why we have Help:Accessing the game files.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 13:29, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
So to make sure I'm understanding correctly, using the Sharp Dresser for example, the template would link to a category containing any audio that is used exclusively by the Sharp Dresser? I feel it would still be best to include sound effects shared between weapons in some way for consistency, though I'm unsure how that could be done without things getting too messy.
Kibblekip T | C 01:50, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

MvM operation pages

Hi,

I've made some pages here that would be replacements for the existing operation pages, which currently just redirect to their badges. If you have any feedback, please leave it here or on the appropriate talk pages. My only issue I have is the strategy section. I don't believe it's viable to create per-mission (or even per-operation) stragey pages, as there is simply little to no interest there (though, if people want to create a sandboxed version they're welcome to). I am not sure on a way to restructure it, I was even thinking of adding it into the missions table, but I'm not sure that would be the best. I would like to know if anyone has ideas for that specifically, otherwise any factual errors or any other suggestions are welcome.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 10:53, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

A handful of the individual mission pages already have some basic strategies on them (though honestly many of these pages could do with improving, and some lack strategies entirely), so I feel the strategy section only containing links to the overall map strategies is fine. Most issues I have are small nitpicks; some of the tables could look a little nicer visually (some borders don't align correctly, mission images and names probably don't need separating or should use a different colour for backgrounds), for the Two Cities loot I feel it would be better to combine the rows/columns of the Robot Parts so they're presented siilar to the random item pool section, and for random item drops it could be worth listing the robot cosmetics (i.e. Stealth Steeler) independently, as they're unique to specifically the MvM reward pool rather than the standard drop pool. Otherwise this seems good to me, good stuff.
Kibblekip T | C 20:35, 20 September 2024 (UTC)
The tables are aligned now, I noticed that earlier and couldn't figure out why but I know why now. Seperated image/names generally tends to look better as the images fit better into their own box that way (the most I could do is add nameplates, but I think that would clash with the colour scheme, I might see if another colour fits though). For the random drop I don't think it should be separate on the table, because that'll just confuse people, but I can add it in the text below it. I made an example of single-cell Robot Parts table on the 2Cities loot table, I'm personally not a fan of it as it makes the Rare Robot part, Specialized Ks Fabricator (in the Guaranteed Loot section), and the Australium weapons far too stretched out. I would also like to keep the aussie rocket launcher/golden pan separated as the GP is much much rarer. Now that I think about it, separating the drop items may also look a bit better. Please also note the backpack image I've put on the other loot tables, I wanted to see if that looked better than the individual items.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 21:12, 20 September 2024 (UTC)
See this page for some alternate ideas on the map name colours.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 21:33, 20 September 2024 (UTC)
The MVM pages are very good, I don't think its worth having a stratergy page since most of those pages even for non-mvm maps never really tend to get written, but like you said, If you were to include them I'd put them on the missions table.
CheddarTalkContribs 22:43, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

Update on this: each mission's article has strategy. I propose merging this into a per-tour strategy instead, or a per-mission strategy.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 21:48, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Page for Community created Charecters

There is a page for community created maps that aren't in game, one for NPCs, so why not one for Community Created characters in game? I say if Trevor is on the official list of characters, I think there should be one for the community ones in game!
The rules would be to get on the list, the character must be:

  1. In game- it must be a character in tf2 you can see or hear, that is created by the community.
  2. the top of the page would say "None of the characters listed are cannon to the story of Tf2.' due to none of them being official.
  3. All would state their creator, and (if they have a voice) who voices them
  4. all would state team tendency as inspired from the Company list on the Wiki

I think this could be a place to se all of the different random guys, announcers, and bosses the community has made and what their lore is!
Axolotle (talk) 20:23, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

I don't think the argument of Trevor is one of any value at all. Trevor has a notable gag appearance in the comic he's in and he's an official character. All community-created characters have no relevance outside of their own maps, with the exception of Elizabeth II on Monster Bash, nor do they have any relevance to the storyline. If there is no connection to the entire rest of the game or anything story-wise, I don't see much of a reason to have them all collected on one article, as it would essentially be "List of non-player characters with no significance". Most relevant information about a map's storyline is always contained to the map itself as well, so I don't see why this wouldn't be (perhaps adding any interesting facts to Trivia instead?).
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 22:00, 9 October 2024 (UTC)
I say that if there is a list of community maps that aren't even in the game, why not have there be one of NPC's in the game? Yes it would be short, but so is the list of Companies, where the only thing that makes it big is how many there are and the images of their logo. So I think that it would fit right in
Axolotle (talk) 03:37, 11 October 2024 (UTC)
Some custom maps, like trade_plaza, orange_, or achievement_idle are way way more important to TF2 than Madame Sinclaire from Sinthetic.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 12:41, 11 October 2024 (UTC)
That is a good point, maps like achievement_idle, cp_orange, tf_walkway are very important. But not all of them. Also I will say I understand why you wouldn't put them in the official NPC list, because then new players would think that Dr. Cadaverus Hale, or Veikko are extremely important to the story. But back to the list of companies, half of them are not important, and a lot come from Pier or Galleria both maps made by the community. And all of the entries can be summed up as (image of company logo), Name: Bill's Tractor Supply Maps: A map with a town in it Team: Red Blu Reference: unknown. That is the length of each entry. And yes, some companies are very important, but if they are then they have their own pages. And the rest are stuff that don't effect anything. You know how much the story would change if Jimi Jam wasn't there. I am NOT saying I don't like Jimi Jam, or the companies page. I like to see how many there are, see where they appear, and how they make the world feel realish. But also, they are not very long, because they are usually just a sign on a building, and if they're more than that, they have their own page or have it on the map they appear in. Thus, I see no problem in there being a Community Non-player characters page that says in it that they are not cannon to the story. I see no harm in this. Please tell me if there is any flaw in this logic.
Axolotle (talk) 17:45, 11 October 2024 (UTC)
If I had to choose today, I wouldn't create either the List of posters/companies articles. The presence of companies from Pier or Galleria are not relevant, as I mentioned before they should not be on there. The NPCs simply aren't notable because there's nothing to tell and they're not relevant to anything but their own maps so it makes most sense to put them on their own map articles. Just like we put community-made posters and companies on their own articles if they're relevant.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 19:14, 11 October 2024 (UTC)
Okay, but then why does it exist? Why does the company list exist if you yourself say you would not make it. Why would it still be there? The only possible explanation is that it was grandfathered in, but on a Wiki where anyone can edit (basically) anything, I think that that is not a very good argument. So if that list can exist, why not this?
Axolotle (talk) 20:47, 11 October 2024 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────Just because I don't want something doesn't mean no one else wants to, I don't see a point in removing it now that it's already there, but if we had to have the discussion today I'm not sure I would vote yes on it. If other people want this page they'll vote yes for it, but as of right now it seems like it won't be added.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 20:52, 11 October 2024 (UTC)

Yah, that is a bit of an issue. We are just going back and forth going "nuh uh" and "yah huh", if you know a way, please get other people to know of this discussion, because it is really just us two saying the arguments "but there are pages like it", and "but there would be barely anything to talk about, and it's not cannon". So I would like others to give their two cents. I will say though, that it does not matter the age. If there is a problem, it is to be fixed. I do not want anyone to get rid of the company page, but if it is allowed, than this should too.
Axolotle (talk) 22:12, 11 October 2024 (UTC)
I'm with Grampa on this one. Community characters with zero connection to the real storyline don't really need their own page(s) on the Wiki in the main namespace. There's no real reason to document them like this, plus there's probably a dozen or so of them by this point it would take a huge amount of time to write the page at all. However, nothing's stopping you from creating a page like this on your user space and linking to it on your userpage as a project, people do this sort of stuff all the time. ♡ JupiterSphere ♡ ( ◡‿◡ *) ⊱✿⊰ Talk To Me! ⊱✿⊰ 22:24, 11 October 2024 (UTC)
I'm also with Gramps. I don't think there's enough material to justify a page to something like this and don't really see much value in documenting it. Mediarch User Mediarch PFP.pngTalkMy Edits 22:29, 11 October 2024 (UTC)
I'm with Grampa as well. While I think such a page would be kinda neat, I don't think it would be much useful, as most of these characters just exist without a background or even a face and are reserved to a single instance. - BrazilianNut (talk) 22:36, 11 October 2024 (UTC)
I will put it on my user page as recommended by JupiterSphere.
Axolotle (talk) 00:08, 12 October 2024 (UTC)

Category for pages with 'Bugs' section

Is it possible to automatically categorize all pages with reported bugs? This way, it would be easier to track and test if said bugs were already fixed (or not). User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 19:14, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

I don't think this is necessary, this seems like something only useful for the TF Team.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 19:31, 13 October 2024 (UTC)
Sometimes bugs are listed on the Wiki, but they are no longer possible to reproduce or were fixed without being mentioned in patch notes. On pages with less traffic, they can be forgotten and left unedited (cosmetic items for example). Please reconsider it. User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 20:30, 13 October 2024 (UTC)
I just don't see much benefit in this, besides the technical challenge of it (which I'm fairly certain is impossible without using WindBOT to mass categorise a ton of pages), there isn't a ton of benefit to it either imo.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 20:52, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

Missing english pages

Is there any way to view any missing pages that are in English? I know most of these missing pages are either community strategies for relatively unpopular maps, community strategy for TFC classes, and anything related to competitive but it would still be nice to keep track of these pages without having to scroll through a bunch of missing translations. TeapotsOfDoom (talk) 19:24, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

Sorry for the late reply, I don't believe there is a way to find that out. We would need some special report for it.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 12:47, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Crates, cases, and keys

The problem:
There are over 140 crates, most with a unique accompanying key, and counting. Retired case series has already had to be created because Retired crate series was reaching length limits, and I fear the article for keys will soon face the same issue.


Suggested solution #1:
Turn the active and retired crate and case series pages into list pages similar to the List of [class] cosmetics pages, create such pages for keys, and make articles for the crates/cases WITH their respective keys. The conjoined articles could be simply crate/case + key and/or by update. There are a few issues, though:

  • Some keys can/could open multiple cases, like in the Invasion Community Update Key that can open the Confidential and Quarantine cases and the Gun Mettle Key that can open the Concealed Killer and Powerhouse weapon cases. Should we have both cases be featured in the same article, or should we create one for each and just repeat that the same key is used for both? But then, which article should we link the key to?
    • Instead of focusing on the crates/cases, should we focus on the keys and have the crates/cases link to them instead?
      • What about some of the 2013 keys? For instance, the summer event alone had eight distinct keys. Should each key have its own article, or should we group them together?
  • While nowadays cases and keys are released in updates like Scream Fortress and Smissmas, some old crates were unceremoniously released in random, regular patches. How should we deal with these?


Suggested solution #2:
Again, turn the active and retired crate and case series pages into list pages, but this time transfer the info on them to the articles for their updates. However, there is still the issue of the crates unceremoniously added in random, regular patches; where would their info go?


Suggested solution #3:
Just have every single crate, case, and key have its own, unique article (maybe a single article for the Summer 2013 Cooler ones, though).

Opinions and/or suggestions? - BrazilianNut (talk) 12:19, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

I'm not so sure it's going to exceed the page limit soon, the reason the crate one did is because it had a lot of templates to transclude too. Try copy pasting the current entries until the page gives an error, I'd be interested to see how long we'd actually have before making a decision.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 12:47, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
The problem crates faced is not even close to happening on the key page - data compare. You can see in the 3rd image I copy pasted (most of) the key section again and it's not even close to any limits - that's 147 keys, an extra 73 keys, probably would be able to hold like three times that so ~200 keys, at 4 keys a year the page will last for 50 years. The 4th image does show that we might need to concerned about the case page, if we think the game is going to still be getting more cases in 10 years. Jh34ghu43gu (talk) 12:53, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

When will error 502 and 503 be fixed?

Hello,

I'm contributing – from time to time – for years on this wiki and this problem has never been solved. I'm suspecting this website runs on a potato in Gaben's bathroom to be that bad. A MediaWiki isn't particularly resource-intensive, so I don't understand what all the fuss is about? I'm not in the habit of complaining, it's very negative for everyone, but sometimes you've got to get things moving.

No one's going to tell me that Valve doesn't have the money, or that this Wiki isn't seen by anyone, otherwise these errors wouldn't be so frequent.

Not to mention the MediaWiki version, which is very, very obsolete: 1.31 dates back to 2018, that's 6 years, almost 7.

These two issues aren't related, but I'd like to point them out and hope to see if they can lead to something positive. I'm even willing to lend a hand!

SpyAmogus (talk) 18:40, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

It's not a money nor visibility issue, we're very much aware of the issue but if the fix was as simple as updating MediaWiki or throwing more money at it then it would've been done already. The backend of the Wiki is quite outdated and Valve doesn't host the servers. It's going to take some time before the issue is fixed and there's nothing we can really do to speed it up.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 18:44, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
Thanks for your reply. Valve doesn't host but it's a Valve property according to WHOIS. Either they don't care (yet all Steam market links to this wiki), or they just don't know this website exists anymore. They or big admins should really take care of this matter, it's been too much years I, but others contributors and visitors are waiting. SpyAmogus (talk) 19:11, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
Valve owns it because it's hosted on teamfortress.com and it is an official wiki, but they don't interfere with anything related to the Wiki unless we ask (wouldn't help in this case, though, and we don't need it). The problem is being worked on, it is just very complicated and it isn't something we can easily fix. These errors also haven't been around for years, but happened under very different circumstances that were fixed before. This is a completely different and much more complicated issue. The only thing you can do is have patience, unfortunately.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 19:28, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
I see, thank you for your complete reply! Good luck.
PS: No ETA I guess :)?
SpyAmogus (talk) 20:23, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Is there a way to watch "typo" link in specific language?

Hello,

It's me again, I would like to know if there's a way to see the "least" wanted pages restricting on language. It could be useful to see typo made on link, for example, the person wrote [[Upwart/fr|…]] instead of Upward. In a report I found, it's the most wanted in each page but when I go to the #10,000, the max is when a page is linked by "only" 261, no way to find a page with a single typo (1 occurence) on the wiki. $

Thanks for the support

21:27, 9 December 2024 (UTC)