Team Fortress Wiki:Discussion

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Dark Mode

I don't think I even need to explain this. Wikipedia itself has it, so do other wikis. I do have a browser extension for dark mode, and optimally a dark theme for TFwiki should still keep muted earthy orangish tones and such, but at this point with my eye strain I'd take anything. It would encourage more dedicated editing streaks, perhaps, since many of us are night owls too.-- Akolyth (talk) 03:23, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

Easier said than done, it's being worked on but we can't promise anything.
| s | GrampaSwood (talk) (contribs) 11:13, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

Valve Store

The official Store has been closed down for months now by Valve, and there's no reasonable smidgeon of proof to believe it's coming back any time soon. The Wiki, in many articles, links directly to the Store still, or mentions it, but even tooltips for certain hats will just say they're "not available". This is kind of awkward, and makes the average user waste a click (the horror, I know). And even I get a false hope sometimes that it changed, but it's Valve after all. Should something be done about this, and how? Can there be an automatic disclaimer the Store is gone? Should links be removed? Just let the dead ends sit forever?-- Akolyth (talk) 02:44, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Try to find an archive.org version of it, otherwise just add a tooltip saying it's not available anymore due to store shutdown.
| s | GrampaSwood (talk) (contribs) 11:12, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Painted variants with both Styles and separate Classes images, a design proposal

Hi. So, I have several mockups of things to suggest which I'll be writing it up eventually. For now, I was making changes to the Robot Chicken Hat page, and was thinking about adding class variants to the paint gallery, as each class changes the hat's design a little (taller combs, different beak designs, etc.). However, if I were to make those paint variants per class, the current way we put styles and classes to the table looks... off, to say the least. At the moment, if I were to make it consistent with the rest of the Wiki, it would look like this: https://i.imgur.com/gfdAUBL. But, instead, I thought about this mock-up: https://i.imgur.com/QmQCLsK. Not only this looks more visually appealing, but it also takes a lot less space. The only problem that it may be confusing for cosmetics that separate styles by a group of classes (Cotton Head, Brotherhood of Arms, etc.). So... I thought about just making the class buttons that aren't active a little darker (same thing with the Style name): https://i.imgur.com/Fiw1zRT. Here's another example with the Cotton Head: https://i.imgur.com/ZhkQwGG. Mouse-hovering the class icons could also show their class names ("Pyro, Medic, Spy" and "Other classes" in the case of Cotton Head) Thoughts? - ▪ - 13:11, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

I like this proposal, although I think it's not necessary for every page. Only for the ones where the tabs become too much.
| s | GrampaSwood (talk) (contribs) 13:15, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Inconsistency regarding items with one team color, but shows team-colored parts of a player model

Hello. So, when I started adding tabs to the paint variants, and just browsing the Wiki as a whole, I noticed that a couple pages are inconsistent in regards to the unpainted variants. In almost every case of cosmetics that use part of the player model, but only has 1 skin (not team-colored), the team-colors syntax isn't added to the tab, and we only have the UNPAINTED version on the paint variants table (example includes the Soldier's Stash, Horrible Horns on Spy, and much more), but some other pages still shows the BLU variant of a player model despite the item only having one skin (Texas Half-Pants, Millennial Mercenary's Streaming 2Fort style, Exquisite Rack, Battle Bob's With Helmet style, Bacteria Blocker's Headphones style, etc).

Some other pages also includes two identical RED and BLU images for the infobox, just because the item has two materials per team, but still uses the same exact texture and values (basically two identical .vmt files). I don't remember what pages has it now, but there are some pages that has that. I did that on Decorated Veteran since I've heard about doing that in the past before: "even if they look identical, put in two separate uploads". There's also no current way to just show one skin on the infobox (however that's something I'm looking to suggest soon enough on my mega infobox improvements topic).

Because we use the infobox, as well the RED and BLU parts of the paint variants table to show the different Skin Colors of the ITEM, I would say to actually cleaning it up these inconsistencies. So, for instance, on Texas Half-Pants, there wouldn't RED and BLU images for each style, because they look identical on either team, and, there's only two skins on the model (one for the Tan style, the other for the Midnight style [older cosmetics used a different way in handling styles, as opposed to separate models, many old cosmetics would use different skins for styles, and the Item Schema would redirect what skins to use depending on the style chosen]). The colors change on the images right now, because it's the colors of Engi's default pants, but not the actual item model changing colors. Meaning that, the RED / BLU on the infobox would be removed, the BLU_... images would be deleted, and the RED_ images would be moved to the _UNPAINTED.png suffix instead.

Some may argue that, since the team-colored paint can image previews also change the pants colors, that these should stay in, but, I don't agree. These are to show the item's team-colors being affected (both the UNPAINTED versions and the team-colored paint cans), not the player model's team-colors, but let me know what do you think.

Items that have 0 changes on team-colors despite having them (same exact .vmt values), I'd also say to get rid of it, as they provide no real information for the reader other than perhaps modders, so they don't need to go all the way of decompiling models to add team-color support, for instance. Some require close inspection however. The Mann-Bird of Aberdeen looks like to be the case, but the green area is just slightly brighter on BLU. I'd still keep the same colors for Styles and classes (like Team Captain for Heavy), until a more fully-fledged infobox edit comes along the way that adds support to just 1 skin on the infobox (like this: https://i.imgur.com/GQP1ou0). I will still point out many of these on my eventual discussion of infobox changes in another topic. - ▪ - 13:43, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

I would support every page having both team colours.
| s | GrampaSwood (talk) (contribs) 13:57, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Articles for individual environmental hazards

Some of the older environmental hazards have their own articles. Specifically, they are: Ghost, Pumpkin bomb, Saw blade, and Train.

These are some fairly simple hazards: ghost goes "boo", pumpkin bomb goes "boom", blade goes "bzzt", and train goes "[Train horn noises]". They all have fairly short articles, and are also covered in the Environmental death article.

I propose we change these four into redirects to the Environmental death article, similar to Pitfall.

As for their Update histories, I have three ideas:

• Add the section to the Environmental death article and carry them over.
• Create a separate page for that (similar to the Item timeline pages).
• Ignore them (essentially already the case for all the hazards that don't have their own articles).

I am ok with Skeletons and the Halloween bosses having their own articles, however, as they are more elaborate (which is noticeable by simply comparing article sizes).

Opinions? - BrazilianNut (talk) 16:36, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

I think some of these pages can add value, such as the specifics in the hazard infobox. I'd push for more articles rather than less, similar to List of game modes, where each hazard has its own page as well as a short description on the overall page. I would prefer this because it would cut down on the clutter on the Environmental death page, for example the pumpkin bomb section is 5 identical hazards that are just reskinned. It would be better to have this in a gallery on its own page, rather than several entries on that page.
| s | GrampaSwood (talk) (contribs) 16:40, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

I believe it is better to keep the pages separate, as putting them all together in one could generate a lot of visual clutter, in addition to having a lot of information for the reader to consume at once. Furthermore, it would be complicated to gather all the update histories on the articles. Essentially, we would be taking separate articles and combining them into one big article, where each section (divided by == Section title ==) would be a "complete" article.
Tiagoquix (talk) 18:45, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

A request

In Polish language we don't capitalise most words like in English language and the way quality items have their quality displayed looks like this: Rocket launcher (vintage). The problem is that in Template:Mann-Conomy Nav Vintage quality in Polish and Russian is not capitalised and looks weird in the template where everything is capitalised except this one word. Is it possible to add a new entry in the dictionary for this template only, where 'Vintage' is capitalised for these languages? In Polish it's even more confusing, because Classic and Vintage share the same translation, so it could be shown in the tempalte as 'Vintage quality' (Jakość klasyczna in Polish). Denied (Talk) 10:28, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

If it's the very first letter that needs to be capitalised, you can use {{ucfirst:<string>}} to turn the first letter into a capital. For example, {{ucfirst:hello world}} generates Hello world.
| s | GrampaSwood (talk) (contribs) 11:15, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

Could you help me with this? I've changed it in Template:Mann-Conomy Nav but doesn't seem to capitalise the first letter. Denied (Talk) 10:54, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

Hmmm, yeah seems like the automatic translation templates automatically uncapitalise it. If you really wanted to implement this you'd have to use the {{lang}} template instead.
| s | GrampaSwood (talk) (contribs) 13:49, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

I already did it once and... Denied (Talk) 14:19, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Perhaps leave a hidden comment and use {{lang incomplete}}?
| s | GrampaSwood (talk) (contribs) 14:27, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

I've coppied how it looked oryginally but now it shows as red link 'VintageVintage'. Could you look what's wrong with this edit? Except equals sign. I've fixed it later. Denied (Talk) 13:21, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘Looks like you forgot to add a vertical bar, which made the link [[VintageVintage]].
| s | GrampaSwood (talk) (contribs) 13:31, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Mann Manor/Mountain Lab's history

I feel maps that we know more detailed information on the history of we should actually have written down so it isn't forgotten, such as for example, Mann Manor/Mountain Lab being an art contest was not the original plan in fact the maps used to have textures before but, that's just what I think. The American Boot (talk) 04:34, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

If you think this fact is worth and most player don't know, you can try adding it to Trivia section. Here is a more detailed Trivia guild.Profiteer（奸商）the tryhard (talk) 05:07, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

I'm not sure where this Trivia came from or if there is any source for. The Art Pass Contest page states that Robin Walker said they had a map that hadn't been worked on for a while and they didn't have time to do an art pass on it (which means the map just had dev textures).
| s | GrampaSwood (talk) (contribs) 21:34, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

Weapon articles mentioning taunts that aren't kill taunts

I've noticed a few articles for weapons mentioning that those weapons have a unique taunt that is not a kill taunt, or a variation of the default weapon for that slot (which is still not a kill taunt). These are the Lollichop, which mentions it has a unique taunt based on a scene from Meet the Pyro, and the Third Degree and Neon Annihilator, which mention the added guitar sounds, respectively. In comparison, the Cow Mangler 5000, Scottish Resistance, and Ullapool Caber, which also have unique taunts, do not mention them since they're not kill taunts, and the Vita-Saw, which has has a variation of the default taunt, does not mention said variation.

I think we should remove these notes from the Lollichop, Third Degree, and Neon Annihilator, as they are already all noted in the Pyro taunts page.

Speaking of the Pyro taunts page, I think we can move the "as in Meet the Pyro" comment from the Lollichop's description to a new Trivia section and add that Execution is also based in a Meet the Pyro scene (which is not mentioned). - BrazilianNut (talk) 16:45, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

I think variants on an existing taunt should be mentioned, such as different sounds (such as the Third Degree/Neon Annihilator adding guitar sounds and the Vita-Saw having different melodies being played), but the non-kill taunt shouldn't be mentioned (no note about the Lollichop taunt. Although seeing as it's unique to that weapon, I think the Trivia can stay).
| s | GrampaSwood (talk) (contribs) 17:14, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

Main menu Smissmas 2023 header localization

'Smissmas 2023' is localized but 'December 7 - January 7' is not. Is it possible to localize it too? Denied (Talk) 10:29, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

See Dictionary common strings.
| s | GrampaSwood (talk) (contribs) 13:37, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

Thanks. Denied (Talk) 14:19, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Link of the wiki team fortress energie drink don't work

[[1]] you see this page on the wiki contain a team fortress wiki energie drink with a link for have it but it don't work and is not secure, can someone help me ? — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Nonolemage (talk) • (contribs) 2023-12-21, 13:46 UTC

Please sign your messages using ~~~~.

The website appears to be down and no archive of it exists, so unless someone here happens to have a copy we can't do much.
| s | GrampaSwood (talk) (contribs) 13:46, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

Multiple Suggestions related to Infobox, etc

Hi. I have been wanting to write this in the past, but, well, finally here it is. I have a couple suggestions about things related to infobox, and other things to make the design of the Wiki flow better on certain articles. I will be posting here as it covers a multitude of topics, as opposed to posting each one of them on their respective templates. When adding "Support" and "Not Support" on your responses, please make sure to add the number (and letter) behind to specify what you are supporting (or not supporting) as a change (like: "1-c"). With that said, let's get going:

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1) Implement a way on the Item infobox template where if a style or class has only one team-color compared to other styles with team-colors, include an icon in the middle of both teams. For instance:

a) The Heavy variant of the Team Captain only has one color, but the page right now includes a duplicate of the RED variant as a workaround. What I suggest is doing this: https://i.imgur.com/YgQHk5z. Make the Heavy variant only one file, and center it. It should be pretty clear that because of the image is in the middle, is that it looks like that on both teams.

b) For items with styles that only has one color (not team-colored), do the same thing as well. In the example of Close Quarters Cover, include the "Alert" style on the infobox in the middle of the "RED" and "BLU" sections of the infobox, something like this: https://i.imgur.com/lARBQME.

c) For items that are not team-colored, but have class-specific variants, include a new part colored in grey called "Both Teams", and include each image on the middle as well. For example, the Dead Little Buddy have 3 model variants, one for Pyro, one for Demoman, and the other for the remaining classes. The idea is this: https://i.imgur.com/xPD9PMO.

d) Although I do not have a mock-up right now, I thought of also doing the same as above for items that has only one color. So, for instance, the Jumper's Jeepcap would have a "Both Teams" section, and it would include the "UNPAINTED" variant on the center. Items with styles with just one color, like Mustachioed Mann, would be similar to Dead Little Buddy, including each style on the infobox, alongside their names. Items like Carl that has no styles, but is neutral-colored, would also have the "Both Teams" part.

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2) Get rid of the current "2D" images of Weapons, and use "Item icons" instead. The 2D weapon images are not consistent throughout the Wiki. They have different lighting, different angles, and so on. What I suggest is doing something similar to another Wiki I also contributed (one related to a TF2 sourcemod): https://i.imgur.com/vbvPbGP. This looks extremely clean, and every page would have in this angle. The 2D image only includes the RED variant, just like we use RED classes on our cosmetic previews.

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3) Add the "RED" and "BLU" sections on the infobox for Weapon pages, even if the 3D image allows you to switch between teams. Right now, the RED variant is used as the 2D image (for team-colored weapons), while the 2D BLU variant awkwardly sits on the Gallery section. My suggestion would be this: https://i.imgur.com/dM9z7Oo

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4) For cosmetic pages that has styles alongside class changes on the Painted Variants table, include additional buttons that include class icons. The idea is to remove clutter on pages with a lot of tabs to choose from (see this page). In technical terms, the style buttons would be responsible to change the "style" part of the filename, while the class buttons would change the class part of the filename. If the first class is chosen, then the code needs to get rid of the class part of the filename, as the first class is always the default: https://i.imgur.com/QmQCLsK

a) Additionally, text could be placed on each row, one for "Style:", and the other for "Class:" for the second row, just so it's a little more intuitive and understandable for everyone.

---

5) Include "infobox images" for separate styles, and add buttons that let you change it. The idea is to include identical images (with identical classes and facial flexing), with the only thing changing the model. For example, Main Cast would look like this: https://imgur.com/a/OmTIYVs.

---

6) Include more sections on the Gallery for items with more than one Style. In the past, the Robot Chicken Hat page did include all 9 classes on the Gallery section, with 2 separate sections, one with the "Beak" style, and the other with "Beakless" style. It would follow the same rule as "5)", with both images looking identical facial-flex and pose-wise. Some pages like Dead of Night wouldn't include all classes on each section. Classes with lack of grenades wouldn't be there.

Edit: Some users asked for an example, so, when I talked about the Robot Chicken Hat, it originally looked like this. The images don't exist anymore, but you can still see how it looked like. When I wrote the suggestion, I thought something about that (though it could have been changed a little, like include an "Other" title for the remaining images that aren't related to the class images), but, after Swood's suggestion, I'd say that using Tabs would be more ideal, something akin to how we do on the Tournament Medal pages.

I did an example on my 2nd Sandbox page. I thought something about this: https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/index.php?title=User:Gabrielwoj/Sandbox2&oldid=3598538 (note that a couple images, namely the infobox team-colors, and paint cans, does not show up properly due to the page's name being different, if this were to be pasted onto the actual page, it would show just as fine). I decided to not make the Tabs centered as regular cosmetic pages are usually not centered, unlike Tournament Medals / Community Medal ones. I also decided to make the gallery width "485px", so it shows 3 images per row, and looks pretty nice and cool with whatever's below that does not require a Tabs section.

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7) Lastly. Items that include noticeable team-color differences could also get "Single Color" paint can previews on both teams, even if the paint look identical on the area that is paintable. When Paints were first introduced, they were mostly applied to cosmetics that used the same texture on either team. Now, nowadays, we have cosmetics that include team-colored parts that are not paintable, alongside other parts that are. So, for instance, Brawling Buccaneer would have its Painted variants table from {{Painted variants}} to {{Painted variants full}}, and single color paint can previews for the BLU team would be made, to show how the paint looks like, and despite being painted in the same area, the rest of the item is in another color. Readers might want to know how an item looks on the BLU team. This would take a long time too make for the entirety of the Wiki, and would be a project that would require remaking some paint variants if they do not have Rotation values saved, or if there's another issue that doesn't make them 1:1, but I think it would look good, and useful as well.

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8) For items that has several styles / classes on the infobox (such as Manndatory Attire, Beaten and Bruised and Boarder's Beanie‎), make the Infobox template show less of them by default, and include a button with a caption "↓ Show remaining ↓". If possible, make the last one have a "fade" effect, so it's perfectly clear what the button is about. My idea was to include at least 10 of these sections, then fade (because if it reaches 10 of these, it means there's more than one Style per class, where other pages would include 9 of these per class, though, it could be shortened if needed, but personally I would go with 10 sections before the button and fade shows up). It would look like this: https://i.imgur.com/jh6geu6

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Edit: 9) Regarding the Styles section. If we include Styles on the infobox, even for items that look the same on either team, is it really necessary to include the "Styles" section on the page, alongside the table, if everything would be on the Infobox? It seems redundant to keep both of them, but, I'd only get rid of the Styles section after everything is added to the infobox, including the single-color Styles on it. Additionally, certain pages that has Styles that change between classes are a little confusing at the moment. Manndatory Attire has only Scout's styles being demonstrated on the table, despite each class changing the visuals.

a) Originally I was going to suggest a class-switcher button, similar to the "4)", but, if "1)" is implemented, I don't see any reason to keep the Styles section. Please let me know if you think there should be either: "An arrange of buttons that lets you change classes on the Styles table" or "Getting rid of the Styles section entirely as it would be redundant with all the styles on the infobox once the "1)" suggestion is implemented.

b) The only problem that getting rid of the Styles section would be problematic for items that has barely any difference unpainted, but has more notable differences when paintable. Items like Onimann mostly change its visuals when painted between styles, and if there's no section for it. However, the painted variants table, alongside the main summary on the top of the page, would both visually show the difference, as well would explain in text what each style does in terms of paint.

---

Please let me know your thoughts below. Notice that I'm not sure if I would be able to implement some of these suggestions, specially the ones for the "Item infobox" template. If there's enough support, I'd appreciate anyone who could implement suggested changes / additions. - ▪ - 21:13, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

1. I think that section should be dedicated to showing off the team colours rather than different styles for different classes. If a cosmetic looks different on different classes I would prefer a different box for it similar to the "Styles" section.

2/3. That's fine by me, though I would also want to add a second button to it for the BLU variant rather than stuffing it in the Gallery.

4/5. I like this.

6. I like this, although I would suggest we use the {{Tabs}} template for it.

7. I like this too, but it would require a ton of work and I'm not sure we'd be able to make it through.

8. I'm not sure that I'm a fan of collapsing a bunch of them. I would prefer having them sorted by class instead similar to {{Tabs}}.

9. See answer on 1.
| s | GrampaSwood (talk) (contribs) 21:59, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

1  Agree - All of these changes look very nice, I don't have anything to say about them.

2 / 3  Not sure / changes - Would the change to using weapon icons include BLU weapon icons as well? If it does, I would rather have the 2D BLU image in the main infobox when you click on BLU and then switch to the 2D image instead of it being below the main image.

4  Agree - This also looks nice.

5  Disagree - I don't know how I feel about this, I feel like the painted variants sorta already accomplish the goal of knowing what the cosmetic would look like with the different styles. It would also take a lot of work to recreate a lot of infobox images just for this.

6  Disagree - I have the same thoughts about this as 5, it would take a lot of work to redo a bunch of galleries when the styes / painted variants section already get the job done.

7  Sorta Agree - This would look nice, however it would again take a lot of work to get done.

8  Agree / changes - I like the idea, though I agree with what Swood said with that it would look better if it was just in tabs instead.

9  Not sure - I sort of agree with the idea of removing the styles section, but I also do like how there's a sort of simplified section for seeing all of the styles instead of it only being part of the infobox and painted variants.

Andrew360 03:27, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

1  Disagree - Same reason with Swood, I think the style section should do the job.

2  Agree - Good idea!

3  Sorta Agree - Instead of taking space in infobox, Why don't we use the same button used on 3D images?

4  Agree - Yes.

5  Agree - Looks nice, but considered what Andrew says we might not getting those done in recent.

6  Agree - We are gonna do a lot of work then I guess.

7  Agree - Same with Andrew360

8  Not sure - Looks good, though yeah, why not use {{Tabs}}?

9  Disagree.. or Sorta Agree - If I have to choose one from infobox and style section, I would take style section. In my opinion the infoboxs shouldn't be too long and contain too much information, comparing to a small space on the right side of the page, I think the style section can display the information better. If 8 gets passed then I'm fine with it too. (I just don't want to see infobox gets longer than the page itself.)

Profiteer（奸商）the tryhard (talk) 06:16, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

1  Sorta Agree - Eh, doesn't matter to me either way.

2  Not sure - I wanna see how it would look first.

3  Agree - I was kinda the one to start the whole "shoving the blue variant in the gallery" and have always wondered why there wasn't a color toggle for the 2D variants.

4  Strongly agree - I wish it was like this since the beginning!

5  Not sure - I like the idea, but it will take a lot of work updating all the pages and such with the change.

6  Not sure - Same answer as 5.

7  Agree - I'm only saying yes because we'll only have to edit the templates which are used across all translation pages.

8  Somewhat disagree - There aren't very many items that have loads of different styles like this, I think I'd wait until we get something like a shirt or coat that includes a load of different styles (with team variants).

9  Strongly disagree - Yeah it is necessary to have a styles section, because they mostly show examples of what they look like on the character wearing it. I know that the infobox has styles too, but they're only the raw models.

ShadowMan44 (talk) 01:52, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

So, after some user's responses, I'd like to mention a couple things. In regards to most of "2)" and "3)" responses, here's something I didn't mention. There would be a slight problem for items that are not team-colored if we just implemented a RED and BLU image switcher. The idea of using "Item icons" with the RED variant / neutral-color variant, would that it would make everything consistent and nice looking, While "RED" and "BLU" 2D images are usually very consistent too, the current "2D" images used on weapon pages are all over the place. Using the "Item icon" in conjunction with the RED and BLU team-colors means we could use already existing images on the Wiki, too. Not that I would have a problem if new images had to be created for the Neutral-Colored weapons, but, I still think that using the Item icons would highly benefit here, since how nice they look on weapons.

However, if we go with a RED and BLU switcher, what we could perhaps do is team-colored Item icons, yeah that would be awesome. Not only that, but we also have Item icons for Australiums, and, I even made Australium Festivized icons for TF2B a while ago, that is only used there and not on the Wiki, at the moment.

GrampaSwood 6) Yeah, I didn't think of this, but using Tabs on the Gallery would be pretty good, something we already do in Tournament Medal pages, actually.

GrampaSwood, Andrew360, Profiteer 7) While I can't promise I will be on the Wiki forever, and, with my statement on my userpage being correct (that I won't be as active in 2024), making BLU team-colored variants on "Standalone" models is a faster process than when making when loaded as a "weapon" (e.g.: Cosmetic loaded on a player model). The reason I did all the Boarder's Beanie paint variants is solely because it's a standalone model, I was able to generate the paint variants very quickly (and in high quality and proper colors). I can still do every single style and class on BLU as well, for the Single Color paint variants, for the Beanies, I just haven't done since we are still discussing this.

My Laptop is currently not being used. I have thought of the idea of making an HLMV machine, and letting paint variants being made while I do other things. This is something I thought about in the past, but I would require another monitor (which I can buy, no problem), but I also would need time, something I will not have that much starting 2024. However, I'm also in the point where I feel like I have contributed quite a lot for the Wiki already, so I'm kinda conflicted if I should really do this or not. I would only require to re-install Windows, re-configure HLMV (which can be painful), and things like that, before I can make it an idle HLMV machine that makes paint variants.

ShadowMan44 7) Correct, currently, the "Painted variants full" template states that mouse-hovered "Single colors" states that "due to how the cosmetic's textures are set up, it changes colors between teams". This would require to be changed appropriately, somehow, though I don't think that yet another Painted variants template should be made. It should be possible to just add a parameter of some sort.

Gabrielwoj, Andrew360 5) Despite me suggesting this, I was also not too sure about it, but I decided to post it as a matter of discussion. In most cases, Styles just change the look of an item, without changing the placement of the model, or the model itself. In some other cases, however, it does change something Liquor Locker, Pocket-Medes, etc. While it would be an interesting idea, and I do have a couple cosmetics with all styles made already, most of the rest would require to be remade. This could also be a little difficult for regular HLMV users, as refreshing the model viewer gets rid of the facial flex entirely, but not on HLMV++. While you can unload and load submodels without having to refresh, HLMV does read from "$color2" instead of "$colortint_base", which means if someone forgets about that on an older cosmetic, they'd need to refresh after fixing it from the .vmt.

Profiteer 9) That's a good point. I guess if the Styles section was more populated (actually shows differences between classes), then I suppose that items like Manndatory Attire and Boarder's Beanie wouldn't require that huge amount of styles being shown on the table. But then, there's another problem. Items already show their unpainted RED and BLU variants on the infobox, and how exactly could we categorize "exceptions" to be only on the Styles section if we follow your idea?

ShadowMan44 9) I'm not quite sure if I understood what you said. The styles table on both the Style section and infobox use the same exact images, same files, with some exceptions like the Dead of Night and Pocket-Medes. This is why I mentioned it being redundant, because in most cases, both sections use the same images. - ▪ - 11:21, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

So Tekinz and Mgpt talked with me via Steam and Discord DMs, and I'd like to post their opinions on this. Tekinz asked me to post on my behalf, explaining what he told me instead of directly quoting him, while mgpt allowed me to directly translate what he told me. With that said, here's what they had to say:

Tekinz: He told me that he agrees with most of my proposed update and changes, while pin-pointing some specific numbers with further explanation. He adds that for "7)", it would be a huge amount of work, and we would need quite a few active image creators to be able to achieve it in a timely manner, but otherwise it would be a general improvement to the pages. On "8)", he adds that he has no real problems with and thinks it's pretty good, mentioning that if combined with "1)", it would look great. On "9)", he mentioned that it's probably a good idea considering how the Styles section is located pretty far on the page and that it would probably be better to have them focused to the infobox since it's much closer to the top, alongside the rest of relevant images. He further adds that the Styles section always seemed not as important since it was too close to the Trivia and Patch Notes, while also being beneath the huge Painted Variants table that overshadows it.

mgpt:

 Agree 1. Everything looks okay to me, if it's easy to implement;

 Agree 2. I did take a look on some weapons, and I agree in using "Item icons";

 Agree 3. I saw the comments, and Andrew360's idea, and I agree, it has my vote;

 Agree 4. You got my vote, very good;

 Disagree 5. I agree with Andrew360 and Profiteer, I don't think that it's worth the work, considering there's already images below on the infobox, alongside the painted variants;

 Info 6. It ends up being the same as "5)", however, I'd like to see an example how it would look like;

 Agree 7. I'm not sure if I noticed completely, but would that be switching the template from "Painted variants" to "Painted variants full" In several cosmetics, like how it was done in Brigade Helm? If so, I don't see a problem;

 Info 7. An idea to the template. Wouldn't it look better if it was something like this, with 2 buttons? https://i.imgur.com/LVXXb4C Or is it being done currently like it's on the page so it's possible to compare both teams at the same time? Probably that;

 Agree 8. I like the idea, however, the information still continue to be too deep on the page, wouldn't be better to only show 4 or 5, instead of 9?;

 Info 9. a) "An arrange of buttons that lets you change classes on the Styles table". In the example of Beaten and Bruised, the images wouldn't be anymore on the infobox, correct?;

 Info I like "8)"'s idea, but if "9)" is applied, then number "8)" is discarded. - ▪ - 12:16, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

I also replied to mgpt regarding some of his questions, so I had the following to say:

7) On number "7)", it would be including previews like how it's done on "Single Color" paint cans on the BLU team, even if when they are applied on the same area, the paint color looks identical to the RED team. Currently, we only use "Painted variants full" in cases of items that has different colorization between teams, such as the case of Stout Shako;

7. a) I liked the idea of including RED and BLU on the top, it would be very intuitive. Post-thoughts: After re-reading his thoughts on this one, I saw that the original idea would be buttons, while I first thought they were simply two sections that would separate the teams more properly, visually. I thought if maybe that by doing so, we could include a faint red and a faint blue background to separate them both, and make the template a little more nice to look at, as currently there's a bunch of paint variants all included in one table.

8) In regards to the default quantity, it would still be discussed, but the main idea would be something that could be expanded to show the remaining. I finished the Boarder's Beanie images, and the infobox ended up being very lengthy. The table for Painted variants will probably change if "4)" is implemented.

9) The images would still stay on the infobox section, but the idea would be that on the Styles table, it would include an array of buttons with each of the classes icons, so it could be changed, similar to what it has been suggested on "4)". The only thing that, if "1)" is implemented, the Styles section may not be as necessary anymore. - ▪ - 12:16, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ 1  Not sure It sure would be easy to implement but I feel this would discount the usefulness of the class gallery or style section.
2/3  Agree It would clean up the inconsistencies from the 2D weapon images and make them extremely consistent. The item icons are used all over the wiki in subtle ways such as in crafting recipes or in big lists of weapons but it's time for those to be the defacto 2D image for weapons. Bring Shugo-style to the infobox!
4  Agree Adding the class icons in place of the class name plus sorting the paint table by class would greatly improve the user experience. (I always stress when uploading paint galleries with multiple styles that I may upload to the incorrect style/class)
5  Disagree On top of remaking all the infobox images being an immense amount of work, I feel this would also take away from the usefulness of the style box.
6  Not sure I would be more open to this than #5 but I often find that the class gallery images often take me the most time to complete and be happy with. Trying to find good and unique poses and appropriate facial flexes for all 9 classes takes me a fair amount of time. I wish I was faster at it.
7  Not sure I kind of agree on this point but I feel it could just be on a cosmetic-by-cosmetic basis. Like we do now, I think, we could only implement this on hats that would benefit from a full paint gallery.
8  Agree I agree with the others on this point, {{Tabs}} would be great for this. I am more for moving the class styles out of the infobox and moving them to the style box. I feel more and more pages suffer from having a long infobox with the inclusion of more all-class, multi-style hats. If they were moved to the style box with tabs, I think many pages would look a whole lot cleaner and compact.
9  Disagree See #8
H20verdrive (talk) 01:22, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

I've been mildly intimidated, procrastinating voting on this for a week, but here we go:

1.  Agree Very good stuff.

2.  Abstain Not sure about this, it might seem awkward on some items. Like others have said I'd want to see it first.

3.  Weak Agree Seems necessary, but I wonder if there's a more cohesive way to display them.

4.  Agree Looks nice, more visual and less clutter.

5.  Weak Agree Seems alright.

6.  Abstain It seems a bit clunky and as someone said, might take a lot of work, but theoretically seems useful.

7.  Weak Agree As H20verdrive said, probably an item-by-item basis (maybe a "limited run" at first for the articles that need it most?) is best.

8.  Agree Looks cool; long infoboxes do need help, but I think it's most contingent upon all-class items.

9.  Weak Disagree As all others said, this needs tweaking and removing Styles might be too radical, BUT the "arrange of buttons" might work.

Overall, if I had to give a vote for the whole package,  Agree, with tweaking.-- Akolyth (talk) 02:21, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

Well, we got a lot of responses with this discussion, thank you everyone for reading and replying. I guess we could start making some of these proposed changes? Ones that got the most positive votes, while discarding ones that didn't get much positive reception. Perhaps let's talk what should be the best options according to your guys voting. I don't have time to actually write up new template codes and stuff at the moment, however some already have templates available for that (#7), and others should be a little more straightforward in changing (I would imagine that including the Shugo style icons for weapons be quite straightforward, if that would go through). - ▪ - 00:26, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

Swood suggested me to make a table having total votes from everyone:

Suggestion 1	Agree: 7	Disagree: 1	Abstain: 2
Suggestion 2	Agree: 7	Disagree: 0	Abstain: 1
Suggestion 3	Agree: 9	Disagree: 0	Abstain: 1
Suggestion 4	Agree: 10	Disagree: 0	Abstain: 0
Suggestion 5	Agree: 4	Disagree: 4	Abstain: 2
Suggestion 6	Agree: 4	Disagree: 1	Abstain: 4
Suggestion 7	Agree: 8	Disagree: 0	Abstain: 1
Suggestion 8	Agree: 8	Disagree: 1	Abstain: 2
Suggestion 9	Agree: 2	Disagree: 3	Abstain: 4

My own votings have been included too. I agree with all of the changes I proposed except "5)", which I only suggested since I already had some Style images laying around on my computer, ready to be uploaded if it were to be accepted. - ▪ - 17:49, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Userbox, and creator page

Hey! I have a question, how i add userbox and how i add some decoration to my page like evryone did ? Nonolemage (talk) 13:21, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

For userboxes see Team Fortress Wiki:User info boxes. Otherwise, the rest of the decoration is up to you. You may be interested in {{User infobox}}.
| s | GrampaSwood (talk) (contribs) 13:27, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the info box ! But how exactly i decorate my page ? Like how i use custom image or something like thats ? Did you have a page thats can help me to do this ?Nonolemage (talk) 13:59, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

Help:Images may help you with how to place images, for images to use, simply upload them using the upload page. The correct format for images only used on your User page is "User Nonolemage [file name]", so for example "User Nonolemage profile picture.png" or "User Nonolemage scout loadout.jpg". When uploading them on the upload page, include [[Category:User images]] in the summary box. This should be done for every image you want to use on your User page.

As for more complicated design, that is usually done using CSS and/or Javascript. I can't help you much with that.
| s | GrampaSwood (talk) (contribs) 14:08, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

Thanks you a lot ! You realy helped me ! Nonolemage (talk) 14:10, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

Civilian Image

Should we change the image of the Civilian ? Because it's the scout in A pose but the civilain got some real texture thats can be use and found Nonolemage (talk) 12:54, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

That is how the Civilian class looked when it was still available in TF2, Civilian (Classic) is the TFC version.
| s | GrampaSwood (talk) (contribs) 12:57, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

Oh, but i play a mod of tf2 (tf2c) thats show a finished model of the civilain so maybe i can add a picture of it in the galery for show what it looked finished ? Or it's not important ?Nonolemage (talk) 13:04, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

That's not an official version of it, that's fan-made. No Civilian model or textures has been made for TF2.
| s | GrampaSwood (talk) (contribs) 13:11, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

Weapon in user page

Hey it's AGAIN me ! I see some people have a list of weapon they used for evry class but i don't know how to do this, can someone help me ? Nonolemage (talk) 07:32, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Well, you could try learning how to use wikitables, there are also templates like Template:Backpack item and Template:User weapon checklist you could use to this effect.
Luno 🪐🌕 Talk / Contributions / Team 03:20, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

Allweapons Nav template

Hi! I've created two mockups as potential replacements for the current Allweapons Nav template. I'd like to get your opinion. You can check out the templates on my sandbox user page (Nav 1 and Nav 2). The "Secondary" label for "All classes" in Nav 2 appears a bit off, and I'm having trouble fixing it. Thanks! Mgpt (talk) 02:59, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

I don't really see what's wrong with the current one.
| s | GrampaSwood (talk) (contribs) 11:59, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

Outdated/It's not a "real" nav like the others (Hat/Tool Nav). If someone else comments please compare both so you can see the differences Mgpt (talk) 16:05, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

I did compare both, but it doesn't exactly answer what's wrong with the current one. If people really wanted it changed I'd go for Nav 1, but I would still like to see stock and non-stock separated.
| s | GrampaSwood (talk) (contribs) 16:16, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

There's already a nav for them on the weapon page and stock is always the first (they can be in italic, would that work?). I personally prefer Nav 2 because it is actually a nav (not a table) but also consistent with Hat and Tool Nav. Edit: About the availability strings, they shouldn't be there, especially because they're outdated and were added more than 10 years ago. Definitely not the purpose of the template. Mgpt (talk) 20:11, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

I'd prefer for them to be separated regardless, if only in a little box above all of them or with a line separating them. Both the current one and both your versions are technically tables either way, I think a differently structured nav doesn't necessarily make it not a nav or somehow inferior.
| s | GrampaSwood (talk) (contribs) 20:39, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ Personally, I prefer Nav 1. I like the structure of the current Weapon Nav the way it is, I just don't like the availability strings cluttering things up, and the taunts needlessly listing which weapons they're for. Nav 1 simplifies things in a way that's easier to read, certainly. I'd also be fine with Stock weapons being separated, perhaps with a "Stock" header and then a line break before the others.

Incidentally, re: "the 'Secondary' label for 'All classes' in Nav 2 appears a bit off, and I'm having trouble fixing it."

• That should be a "Melee" label, as you've probably realized by now.
• It's looking off because the single list of weapons you've used isn't enough to fill out the space of the column. You'd need at least three lists to fill out the space that the "All Classes" column takes, so the single list you gave sits in the middle. — 10:21, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

I made some changes, thanks for the input Mgpt (talk) 03:18, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

Nav 1 seems almost set to me, I like the Normal quality grey indication, while still being separated by slot. My only slight nitpick now would be that I'd prefer if the non-stock weapons were organized by release order -- at the moment, reskins of stock are still at the top of the non-stock section, which doesn't make as much sense, now that we've agreed on separating stock into its own box. — 03:33, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

I initially added them randomly from the Weapons page, but I'll definitely reorganize them by release order :D I may scrap the all class section, the idea was not to repeat weapons, but we have the Shotgun, so... Mgpt (talk) 03:45, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

Updated the template Mgpt (talk) 19:01, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

About the 2023 leak

Hello ! Im a translator of the unused content and i see on the social media a leak from 2023 of some map and iteam thats has been abandoned or unfinished. So i was thinking if i can work on it for make some page on the unused content section. (The leak is from a valve employer) Nonolemage (talk) 15:52, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

As long as you source all of these changes and abide by the leaked content policy. This leak was also not from a Valve employee, as far as I know.
| s | GrampaSwood (talk) (contribs) 15:57, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

So if i understand, i donnt have the right to put any picture of anything if it's from a leak ? And by the way, how did the code for cited content from leak work ? And if it's not from a valve employer, from who it's from ? (Sorry for all my question and thanks for anwsering me ;-;) Nonolemage (talk) 16:08, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

Don't link to any places that host leaked content (so do not link to a Tweet containing a picture of a leaked model, or containing a link to a Google Drive with the leaked content, etc.), do not directly upload media of leaked content or copy-paste code, and do not link to or upload media of recreations of leaked content. All the information you put on the page should contain a reference to where you got it from (see the examples on the policy). It's likely someone with a Source engine license that leaked everything.
| s | GrampaSwood (talk) (contribs) 16:19, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

I understand, thanks a lot for your help again and i will do evrything you say ! Nonolemage (talk) 16:38, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

Community Medal Nav (closed)

I feel a bit lost with the medal scheme and how it has been handled. Where exactly is this template supposed to be used? I know that {{Hat Nav}} lists the same contents, which I recently updated. I think we should either use this one and remove the medal section from Hat Nav or just use Hat Nav, no? Thanks in advance Mgpt (talk) 21:28, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

With the ever-increasing MvM medals, we should remove it from the Hat Nav and keep this one. The Hat Nav will cause pages to be too large at some point.
| s | GrampaSwood (talk) (contribs) 21:29, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

Would adding an 'Other' section with two links for Community and Tournament medals work then? With this approach, we also need to update the "Competitive play" Nav. Also, both templates use images, is there a specific reason for that?

Edit: They're also cosmetic items, so they should still be mentioned, in my opinion Mgpt (talk) 21:40, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

I would put the 2 links in the hat nav, then keep the medal nav separately. The comp nav can get rid of it imo, and just having a tournament medal link. I prefer having this separate one.
| s | GrampaSwood (talk) (contribs) 22:07, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

I like the template, but it's too big. We don't need images for all the medals: they are exactly the same and this won't scale well if Valve ever allows new medals again (see comp nav). — Tark 00:16, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

Disagree with "they're exactly the same," they're clearly, almost all of them, not exactly the same, but I know that my opinions about all this don't matter too much anyhow. I would be fine with listing the names of the medals instead, but then they'd all have the name of the operation over and over again, and it would be very clunky to look at. That's how it was in the promo nav to begin with, and that's what I wanted to change -- but then, that would require extra name strings that are just "Shimmering Souvenir", for example, and Swood already said that was too much. The images were my way of compromising on that, considering the Competitive nav already did that, but then that's wrong too, so whatever, I can't do any of this properly. — 03:47, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

They are all the same just with a unique hex paint the MVM ones have been reused over and over, there is no model difference between them other than the paint, If the medals were "different" they would have unique models to go alongside them, but back on subject, theres so many of these damn things it would be nice to be able to filter them out entirely.
Cheddar (talk) 13:57, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ By "exactly the same", I meant all the MvM medals that share the same model but have a different paint applied. An average user doesn't care if the medal is pink or green, they are way more interested in the model itself. The same applies to the comp nav: we don't have an icon for every season of each tournament, only for different models.
I personally don't see how extra strings are too much and I agree that the icons look way better than whatever is going on with the comp nav template. My point here is that this template currently is too big and has too much repetitive information to work as a navbox.
Also, I know that it is common for us to get attached to our creations (in this case, the template), but suggested changes to a template are usual business. Please don't take it personally, your opinions always matter. — Tark 14:06, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

If I remember correctly, the "too many strings" were in reference to another nav, where I suggested removing them and replacing them with links to the operation page's rewards section. There were a few medals for each operation with a link to the same section each time. Having too many strings was in reference to the promo nav, not the one we're talking about.
| s | GrampaSwood (talk) (contribs) 14:40, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

So if it's suddenly not too much trouble to localize different name strings for use within this nav specifically, for reasons I won't pretend to understand, nor do I care to ask about further, I propose that if we absolutely must, we strip the pictures and the paint splats, and in the case of MVM operations, we have the link to the operation, and then within that category, plain-text names of just the medals, stripped of the operation name and years, when necessary. (That is, "Operation Galvanized Gauntlet Bejeweled Bounty 2023" becomes "Bejeweled Bounty", and so on. Cleaner, easier to read, and you already get that it's supposed to be within that operation.

I would fight for the pictures, but it's clear that's not about to happen for me, and it's best for me to give it up and take the bullet, like I always have to. I'll believe that my opinions always matter when they start being correct ones to have. — 14:54, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

ThatHatGuy I'm not against your template creation but I searched a little more and its being used with {{Hat Nav}} so we need to decide which one we gonna use, because currently, they have the same contents. Given the opinions above, I think a more neutral solution would be to move the Hat Nav contents to these two templates, so they stay similar to each other. Mgpt (talk) 18:35, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

That didn't matter when some of those event pages, for years, had both the Hat Nav and the Promo Nav on them. The Promo Nav, by definition, has the same stuff that's already on the Hat Nav. Community medals used to be listed individually on there too. Now all of a sudden, there's a new nav, that I made because Swood wanted to separate the Community Medals into their own page, and suddenly, that's something worthy of being dissected and put under a microscope.

Fix it how you all want. I've said my piece about it, but clearly I don't know what I'm doing. — 00:53, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

closed given the recent discussion Mgpt (talk) 02:26, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Trivias without confirmations

Since recent policy change now requiring trivias to have linked confirmations from contributors, there are still many old items that have trivias based on speculations (especially items made by Valve which can't really be confirmed). What should be done with them? Denied (Talk) 09:07, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

Leave them, we'd have to clear out pretty much most trivia sections otherwise. Unless you find proof of the contrary, just leave them.
| s | GrampaSwood (talk) (contribs) 11:02, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

What about this one? A promo item that directly references a game from said promotion, but trivia is about completly different character. Denied (Talk) 08:06, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

I believe it's a invalid trivia, though changing the name of character and game would be better compare to completely remove the trivia Profiteer the tryhard (talk|contribute) 08:20, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

"It is based on one of the male soldiers' hairstyles in the video game UFO: Enemy Unknown" in the first paragraph. Denied (Talk) 08:43, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Yeah my bad, mention it 2 times is kind of surplus just remove it. Profiteer the tryhard (talk|contribute) 09:03, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Promo items should have their reference stated in the intro, not Trivia. Feel free to remove, it is possible that the Crafty Hair is modelled after hair that is modelled after said character.
| s | GrampaSwood (talk) (contribs) 12:24, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Reports/Missing template translations reporting erroneous data

It seems like a very handy feature (as handy as the entire reports page), and oddly enough, it seems to report the same thing for all languages (34 templates), and according to the quick look I did, none of them report missing translations?
I don't know who would be able to fix this, if it's even broken to begin with, maybe Darkid?
Do note that I didn't touch template translating very much in my time here, I looked up the line numbers using Notepad++. Luno 🪐🌕 Talk / Contributions / Team 03:05, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

For the first result it looks like fr is not declared in the {{Translation switching| line which probably leads to it showing up in that report. I'm going to guess it's the same for all the other ones. Jh34ghu43gu (talk) 03:10, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

I can take a look, thanks for the ping. Darkid « Talk — Contribs » 03:10, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

Damn, that was as quick as Dustbowl backcap, I sort of expected the "declare thing", but I doubt each of the members would forget to put it in, if that's the issue.

I would also expect hundreds of entries with varying results for every lang, not 34. Luno 🪐🌕 Talk / Contributions / Team 03:24, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

Hmm, looks like I might've screwed up when I changed the regex on Feb 1st (or at least, page history shows a major diff there). Fixing that now, should be corrected tomorrow. Darkid « Talk — Contribs » 03:59, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

+622,418 bytes coming through, seems about right! Looks like it's working again, thanks Darkid. Luno 🪐🌕 Talk / Contributions / Team 01:52, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

A technical request for "Used by" template

"Localized versions of this template are not necessary." Well, they actually are needed, due to inflection of words in some languages. For Polish, "{{Used by|all}}" and "{{Used by|Soldier|etc.}}" sound fine, but "{{Used by|all-except|" needs translation switching, as it sounds very bad when names of classes are not inflected. I don't know about other languages, but some may require it too. For Polish, here's how it should look to be grammatically correct (only for "{{Used by|all-except|"):

Scout = Skauta

Soldier = Żołnierza

Pyro = Pyro

Demoman = Demomana

Heavy = Grubego

Enginner = Inżyniera

Medic = Medyka

Sniper = Snajpera

Spy = Szpiega

Denied (Talk) 14:07, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

These requests should really be on the template's talk page instead.
| s | GrampaSwood (talk) (contribs) 14:13, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. I've moved it there. Denied (Talk) 08:28, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

Where can I interact with the community?

Is there a discord or something to interact with the community? Thank You.

QS Quark (talk) 13:49, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

You can join the IRC if you want. There is no Discord (and we also won't make one).
| s | GrampaSwood (talk) (contribs) 13:59, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

April fool's?

I've been absent a bit because of health issues lately, sorry, but I noticed there's no April Fools thing this year there? :(-- Akolyth (talk) 02:43, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Probably, yes. Since I didn't notice anything relate to April fools event other than the page itself (normally there will be someone create a April fools sandbox page before April fools event).Profiteer the tryhard (talk|contribute) 03:45, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

The only thing that was planned was a patch, no other efforts were made, unfortunately.
| s | GrampaSwood (talk) (contribs) 08:17, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

TFC logo feedback

Hey folks,

We're considering creating a special version of the wiki logo for Classic pages because we think it would add a nice touch. You can check out our current iteration here: logo example.

This logo would only be visible on pages with the "(Classic)" suffix, so it shouldn't affect other types of pages (TF2 and QTF, in particular - we'll of course test it beforehand, similar to our current localized logos test).

But what I'm really here for is to gather feedback. Do you have any strong opinions against it? Maybe a new design in mind? Please let us know! — Tark 14:42, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

  I like it, for obvious reasons. I've been using it myself as a subtitute for the regular logo for a while now, and I've grown quite used to it, so I can personally say that you'll get used to it even if it looks a bit odd from the start.
| s | GrampaSwood (talk) (contribs) 14:45, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

  I like it too, I feel like it adds to the fact that this is the Team Fortress wiki, not just the Team Fortress 2 wiki, in a way. Personally, I don't think I would have any negative opinions against it, since a lot of times you're focused more on an article than the top left corner of the screen. Either way, I feel like it's a welcome, if small, touch to the wiki. ♡ JupiterSphere ♡ ( ◡‿◡ *) ⊱✿⊰ Talk To Me! ⊱✿⊰ 14:51, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

  Mediarch ♥ Talk ♥ My Edits 17:02, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

I see no issues with the logo.
Cheddar • Talk 19:44, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

I've enabled the logo for logged-in users. Please let me know if you find any issues.

If everything goes smoothly, I plan to push it sometime in July, along with translations. — Tark 21:06, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Zombies,Saxton, and V-Script Classes

(if it doesn’t appear, this is signed by Deluxe Fortress, Saturday May 18 2024) (Skip first paragraph to skip the bone and directly to the meat) In the official Zombie Infection game mode, the classes don’t act the same as zombies. They act slightly or completely different from what they were or are from abilities to their role in the team. This ranges from exaggerating their features (such as scout, who has even less health for holy speed) to heavy and engineer (heavy becoming a building buster; engineer becoming a building buster ) and have different stats alongside their main abilities, mainly the (almost) universal 25+ max health increase. They each act very differently and uniquely compared to their human counterparts.

So my suggestion is to make 9 pages for each of the zombie once mercenaries because of how differently they act and what makes them tick. This is a bit much and a bit of points can be bounced back and forth if this is reasonable or not. I can see the point I made first, zombies should have their own pages because of how differently they act. But then again, listing all the stats and finding a zi_ Zombie image that can be turned a full 360• will be extremely tedious. However, same can be said for the first basic human 9 classes.

If the first point is made or not, I’d like to bring up the rest of V-Script and VSH. Saxton Hale, though taking heavy as a place holder, is 100% not heavy, he is Saxton Hale. So should he get his own page separate from the Comic Illustration page and striped directly from the VSH page to have his own page? It’d be easier for navigating and the Disambiguation page would have to be updated, but I can see it being better as its own page so details like Hammer Units Per Blank can be listed and trivia can be separated and therefor shortened if needed. This would require more work, but I think this is more important than the zombies since he’s basically the 11th class.

My 3rd point is community maps. Certain maps like Crasher and CP_Carrier have the classes be drastically different and could have their own page, but is definitely not necessary in my eyes.

My final point is if we get a new gamemode or map that introduces a new class,mechanic,items, or maybe Ms. Pauling in the future illustrated in VSH, do they deserve their own page (or fuse pages, as I could see the comic and gameplay version being fused), get their own content pages?

Thank you for reading, sorry it was long, from Deluxe Fortress DeluxeFortress (talk) 03:14, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

Just asking, anyone know how to get to the point faster? I kinda need that skill right now and the Goliath of text above me kinda concerns me cause I don’t want to put a dang TDA about what an optimal mask is and why it says that on pyros “nose”, and suggestions are appreciated, ty DeluxeFortress (talk) 04:18, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

  I don't think this is a good idea, as game mode-specific info should be on the game mode itself. On the game mode articles right now it's already adequately covered and there isn't nearly as much information on these classes as there is on the regular classes. Regular classes have many unique weapons, unique personalities, many cosmetics, an associated storyline, unique gameplay aspects, etc. For the Zombie classes they would purely be a description of their abilities and the shared universal changes. Looking at the table on Zombie Infection, this would amount to an article that's taken up more by pictures than by actual information.

As for Saxton Hale, he would have a bit more information but it would largely be Saxton Hale with the information from Versus Saxton Hale merged into a single section. I don't think merging the articles is a good idea, personally.
| s | GrampaSwood (talk) (contribs) 10:01, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

I can fully see your point, I don’t have anything to say after that, but I still want other people to reply so I can see everyone’s opinions. Thank you GrampaSwood.

DeluxeFortress (talk) 18:10, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

  I also agree with what GrampaSwood said. I think the specific stats and what makes them tick seems to be covered in the main Zombie infection page. Anything not mentioned in the Zombie infection page could be covered in a little more detail in the Community Zombie Infection strategy page. I think it's better to keep all the gamemode specific information concentrated instead of spreading it out across a bunch of seperate pages that wouldn't have a ton of detail to go over. Same thoughts apply to Saxton Hale. Mediarch ♥ Talk ♥ My Edits 18:31, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

Remember to indent your replies with :, and also to add your signature after your message rather than before.
| s | GrampaSwood (talk) (contribs) 18:13, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

I’m still new to this, thank you regardless and have a good morning, or evening, or night I don’t know your time zone. DeluxeFortress (talk) 18:33, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

To Mediarch, I couldn’t see your reply because of internet issues so here I am now. I completely did not think about the strategy pages, I just remembered those as the competitive players haven. Thank you, and also, should the Editing:Style apply to comments, replies, etc? What I mean by that is “lol,ty,r u ok”..etc in replies like these?

DeluxeFortress (talk) 18:40, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

No, the style guides don't apply to the discussions, you can write however you want as long as you remain friendly. See Help:Discussion for the guidelines instead.
| s | GrampaSwood (talk) (contribs) 18:44, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

Thank you (for the third time today), I have now read Help:Discussion and I’ll look into the help pages for answers instead of discussion. Seriously cannot thank you enough today

Dell (talk) 19:21, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

Homewrecker and The Zombie Engineer

In Zombie Infection, the Engineer has the ability to throw and EMP grenade that can disable Sentries to help his team push through human defenses. However, the Homewrecker and the Neon Annihilator can destroy Sappers. So can the 2 melees destroy the Engineer’s grenades or is the Homewrecker a direct downgrade in Zombie Infection as no Spies can use the Sapper? The main reason I’m asking this is because I was going to add a strategy for the Neon and I didn’t want to edit the main strategy I was going to put and have to put the possible destroying grenades mechanic after, where I’d be going back to the edit I just made and changing it to add another. To put in simple terms, I’ve 2 strategies for a weapon, I know I can put 1, but not the other, so I went here to see if anyone knew the answer to this question here. I’m guessing “probably not”, but I don’t want to fully shut down the possibility and have to edit an edit which I learned was unfavorable. Sorry this was long. Dell (talk) 00:01, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

Seeing as the EMP Grenade is not a Sapper, it's safe to assume they can't be used to destroy it. Also, be careful with spaces in front of talk page entries, as they put the whole thing in a box with may mess with formatting (e.g. indents can't be used).
| s | GrampaSwood (talk) (contribs) 10:18, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

#savetf2

Deer wiki admins. there is a petition going around supporting #savetf2 on the website save.tf. I think this wiki should support this petition by advertising the site on the main page I think this would help the petition a lot and by proxy help TF2 in general a lot so if the admins (or whoever edits the main page) were to do so I would be very happy. Yours truly Manman24 (talk) 00:44, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

I feel as though this isn't neccessary. Whilst it is a nice sentiment, it doesn't really have a place in the wiki. Specifically, not promoted at the Main Page, or anything that is high traffic. What you can do, however, is promote it on your userpage to show your support! Cheers — jestie. Talk 02:33, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

Hello! We appreciate the invitation, but participating in this petition as a group goes against our Community engagement policy. That said, all wiki members are free to support community activities personally, as long as it doesn't imply official endorsement from the wiki.

Thank you for understanding. — Tark 03:23, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

wav files downloading instead of opening in new tab in Firefox

There seems to be an issue with wav files in Firefox. Check this post. It seems to be an issue only with wav files. For mp3 files it works as usual · Ashe (talk) 17:51, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

I can confirm, as a Firefox user, this does happen. .mp3 files have the native player, so I'm not sure what the issue is.
| s | GrampaSwood (talk) (contribs) 17:53, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

Allowing use of certain images for a Fandom Wiki

Hi, I made this account a few days ago mainly for this, but I run a Action-Figure-related wiki on Fandom, and I've been wanting to make a page based on the Neca products (figures, plushies) & ThreeA/ThreeZero figures for Team Fortress 2. I bring this up because I'd like to include images of the actual in-game cosmetic items you receive with the figures, and was wondering if I could be granted permission to use the images of those cosmetics from here. (I.E, the Brigade Helm & Respectless Rubber Glove cosmetics that come with the Blu & Red Neca Pyro's)

I'd also like to add that my pages would not be copies of the ones here, I'm fully against Plagiarism & any act of it, and I would gladly note on the file summaries that the images come from here, and include the site as part of a "special thanks" list I feature on the main page for people who've assisted/contributed in helping my site (If wanted). Thank you for yout time, Aiden the ToyManiac (talk) 21:43, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

See our Terms of Use for the license used on images. Generally, we allow usage of our images freely (but if you transfer them from Wiki to Wiki it would be nice if you gave credit where you got the image from. Link to the specific file).
| s | GrampaSwood (talk) (contribs) 21:47, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Of course, I'd be glad to, and Thank you, It's greatly appreciated. I shall note the site on the image files & on the pages/main page. Thank you for your time, Aiden the ToyManiac (talk) 05:49, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

Allweapons Nav follow-up

Hi everyone, I updated this template not long ago to be more user-friendly (as previously discussed). Given that it uses a format not found elsewhere, I modified it to align with the general format used in other navigation templates - it also matches the Weapons page, which I hadn't noticed before.

P.S. Keep in mind that this format is used everywhere. I'm not creating anything new, just aiming for consistency . Mgpt (talk) 00:58, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

I think I still prefer the current nav over the new one.
| s | GrampaSwood (talk) (contribs) 01:06, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Melee page

I've created a new page here. It intents to document the melee system, as we don't have one, but we do for Hitscan and Projectiles. Currently, this is just a redirect to the Weapons page, which doesn't explain anything about how the melee system actually works.
| s | GrampaSwood (talk) (contribs) 11:49, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

I think this looks rather good, I'd say something like this should have been done a while ago as the only somewhat "in-depth" explanation on melee weapons is their damage charts.
Cheddar • Talk 12:59, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

 Approve, is good. Makes sense to have a melee page.Mediarch ♥ Talk ♥ My Edits 14:47, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

Weapons audio

Now over the years, some people have added all the weapon audios (one I specifically remembered is this one). My idea would not be to have them featured on the page and to not feature any "generic" weapon sounds (e.g. "draw" sounds, as shown in the example), but exclusively feature unique weapon sounds. This would also be linked through {{Related audio}} the Gallery. Let me know what you think.
| s | GrampaSwood (talk) (contribs) 00:29, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

I would sorta need to see an example of what it would end up looking like in practice to really form an opinion but I think including the more unique weapon sounds in some way would be good. A fair ammount of the unique sounds are already included in the main text of certain weapon articles. Off the top of my head, Dead Ringer has ("The Dead Ringer uncloaks with a very loud and distinct sound.") and Machina has something similar for the fanfare sound on a penetration kill. Not sure if it's really neccisary to have a dedicated section for the sounds if they could simply be integrated into the text itself instead. I'm not exactly opposed to the idea in general but I would kinda need to see how it'd be implemeted.

Also it might be worth making a Sound Effects page? Maybe? There's lots of sounds and having them mostly organized in one place could be sorta handy though I might be severly under estimating just how many sounds there are. Mediarch ♥ Talk ♥ My Edits 01:16, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

I like this idea, but I feel it would be better to include even the seemingly generic sounds like draw sounds, as some weapons do feature unique audio where many weapons do not (i.e. the Sharp Dresser having a unique draw sound).
A potential way of including all weapon sounds, plus generic, could be by providing every weapon sound for Stock weapons, and any sounds shared with those by non-Stock weapons aren't included in said weapon's audio section? (or just link back to the stock weapon the sounds are shared from.)
Kibblekip ^{T | C} 02:49, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

I agree with adding audio to certain weapon pages, but only if the sound is unique and not just the generic impact sound, so for example the HHHH would have an audio section but not something like the Bottle and Scottish Handshake, since they both use the same sounds.
Cheddar • Talk • Contribs 12:58, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

As I mentioned, there wouldn't be an actual section on the page, it would feature the linked template in the Gallery section instead. Buildings#Gallery has an example of how this looks. With "generic weapon sounds" I meant that sounds shared across multiple weapons would not be in each category. For example, a bullet ricochet sound is used on some materials, but this would not be on all bullet-based weapons. A draw sound for the Sharp Dresser is unique, so would be fine to include. Regarding a sound effects page, Audio cues serves that purpose. I don't think generic sound effects should be hosted, as I don't think the Wiki should be a file host for every sound in the game. That's why we have Help:Accessing the game files.
| s | GrampaSwood (talk) (contribs) 13:29, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

So to make sure I'm understanding correctly, using the Sharp Dresser for example, the template would link to a category containing any audio that is used exclusively by the Sharp Dresser? I feel it would still be best to include sound effects shared between weapons in some way for consistency, though I'm unsure how that could be done without things getting too messy.
Kibblekip ^{T | C} 01:50, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

MvM operation pages

Hi,

I've made some pages here that would be replacements for the existing operation pages, which currently just redirect to their badges. If you have any feedback, please leave it here or on the appropriate talk pages. My only issue I have is the strategy section. I don't believe it's viable to create per-mission (or even per-operation) stragey pages, as there is simply little to no interest there (though, if people want to create a sandboxed version they're welcome to). I am not sure on a way to restructure it, I was even thinking of adding it into the missions table, but I'm not sure that would be the best. I would like to know if anyone has ideas for that specifically, otherwise any factual errors or any other suggestions are welcome.
| s | GrampaSwood (talk) (contribs) 10:53, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

A handful of the individual mission pages already have some basic strategies on them (though honestly many of these pages could do with improving, and some lack strategies entirely), so I feel the strategy section only containing links to the overall map strategies is fine. Most issues I have are small nitpicks; some of the tables could look a little nicer visually (some borders don't align correctly, mission images and names probably don't need separating or should use a different colour for backgrounds), for the Two Cities loot I feel it would be better to combine the rows/columns of the Robot Parts so they're presented siilar to the random item pool section, and for random item drops it could be worth listing the robot cosmetics (i.e. Stealth Steeler) independently, as they're unique to specifically the MvM reward pool rather than the standard drop pool. Otherwise this seems good to me, good stuff.
Kibblekip ^{T | C} 20:35, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

The tables are aligned now, I noticed that earlier and couldn't figure out why but I know why now. Seperated image/names generally tends to look better as the images fit better into their own box that way (the most I could do is add nameplates, but I think that would clash with the colour scheme, I might see if another colour fits though). For the random drop I don't think it should be separate on the table, because that'll just confuse people, but I can add it in the text below it. I made an example of single-cell Robot Parts table on the 2Cities loot table, I'm personally not a fan of it as it makes the Rare Robot part, Specialized Ks Fabricator (in the Guaranteed Loot section), and the Australium weapons far too stretched out. I would also like to keep the aussie rocket launcher/golden pan separated as the GP is much much rarer. Now that I think about it, separating the drop items may also look a bit better. Please also note the backpack image I've put on the other loot tables, I wanted to see if that looked better than the individual items.
| s | GrampaSwood (talk) (contribs) 21:12, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

See this page for some alternate ideas on the map name colours.
| s | GrampaSwood (talk) (contribs) 21:33, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

The MVM pages are very good, I don't think its worth having a stratergy page since most of those pages even for non-mvm maps never really tend to get written, but like you said, If you were to include them I'd put them on the missions table.
Cheddar • Talk • Contribs 22:43, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

Page for Community created Charecters

There is a page for community created maps that aren't in game, one for NPCs, so why not one for Community Created characters in game? I say if Trevor is on the official list of characters, I think there should be one for the community ones in game!
The rules would be to get on the list, the character must be:
1. In game- it must be a character in tf2 you can see or hear, that is created by the community.
2. the top of the page would say "None of the characters listed are cannon to the story of Tf2.' due to none of them being official.
3. All would state their creator, and (if they have a voice) who voices them
4. all would state team tendency as inspired from the Company list on the Wiki
I think this could be a place to se all of the different random guys, announcers, and bosses the community has made and what their lore is! Axolotle (talk) 20:23, 9 October 2024 (UTC)