Team Fortress Wiki:Discussion

create a new section

New version of the Weapons page.

Original: Weapons
User:Zoolooman/Weapons
User:Zoolooman/Weapons2

I made two possibilities, both of which sort the page by class instead of slot. I was implementing Weapons2, but seb wanted a vote, so why not? I prefer Weapons2 because it's less cluttered. What do you prefer and why? Zoolooman 23:52, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

 Weapons2 I prefer Weapons 2. It looks better and doesn't have that taunt kill explanation that isn't necessary on the first one. I will die translating any of them, btw :D -- Swordz (talk | contribs) 23:55, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

 Weapons I prefer User:Zoolooman/Weapons because it has more info (pretty attributes) and doesn't look all that cluttered (with the exception of Demoman secondary). Tauntkills however are better on User:Zoolooman/Weapons2, because they use the same table style and more consistent columns compared to the rest of the page. So my vote would be User:Zoolooman/Weapons + Tauntkills from User:Zoolooman/Weapons2 — Wind 23:56, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

 Weapons2 I'm all for reducing the amount of duplicate information across the wiki. -- Pilk _(talk) 23:59, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

The only element I preferred of the first Weapons was the 'Notes' section. I think it would assist in the page's primary purpose, which is a comparison. Hard damage stats isn't something I believe most readers would be interested in immediately, and instead, the 'Notes' cell should mirror the Backpack loadout stats. The remainder of the first Weapons page I would prefer (including the taunt kills table, I don't think the template suits the rest of the page). seb26 [talk] 00:00, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Having backpack statistics present in the table is something that I think will help readers immensely in comparing weapons, which as I stated is the primary purpose (and not only just a listing of all weapons). I  Support User:Zoolooman/Weapons2 with the addition of these stats in a new 'Notes' column. seb26 [talk] 00:07, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

 Weapons I like having the notes column since it is a fast way to compare weapon's attributes between classes. KillerKooK 00:24, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

 Weapons I really love Weapons2 but its lack of the freaking notes column (which is essential to compare stats/effects between different weapons - the main reason I, and certainly most people, read the page), I'm forced to go with Weapons1. If you add the notes column or strip it down to the bare stats à là backpack style I would vote for Weapons2. tl;dr version - Notes column != clutter. Stab ! 02:02, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Nobody reads the page for that, Stab. The current version of the page DOESN'T have that "feature," because nobody needs it when they're digging around a list of damage comparisons. Zoolooman 04:58, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Eh... it used to have in back in the tf2wiki.net days, which is probably where you adapted your Weapons1 page from...

Also how can you declare nobody reads it for comparing backpack stats? Just because you "dig the list" just for damage comparisons, doesn't mean everyone "digs" it for the same reason; I'm not the only one who believes the article has much more potential than being just another "damage comparison list" as you put it, almost everyone who commented on this (Wind, seb26, KillerKooK and me) think keeping the notes column feature is a good idea, specially since your design facilitates class-weapon comparison. I don't get why you're so up in arms about it.

One last thing, I didn't get why did you bother putting a vote up if you go and implement your weapons2 design just 5 hours after... Stab ! 20:08, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Calm down. People were updating the wiki with new weapons and I decided to save everyone a great deal of time by letting people add onto a class sorted list instead of a slot sorted one. Now, if you'll read very carefully, the version of Weapons I replaced DID NOT have attribute info, and thus nobody could've been using it to compare weapon attributes. This isn't a matter of choice; it would be literally impossible to do, as it didn't have that information whatsoever. Also, I didn't build anything off the TFwiki version. I pulled Zoolooman/Weapons from our class pages. Zoolooman 20:15, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Indeed, the original Weapons page did not have the backpack attributes in it, only damage numbers. By putting Weapons2 over it, they are now sorted by class; that's the only thing that Zoolooman has changed to the Weapons page so far, he hasn't removed anything from what was already there. The addition of backpack attributes, which I am also in support of, is yet another cool addition that I hope Zoolooman will do; but it is an addition, he didn't remove it. — Wind 20:20, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

I'll be adding attributes over the weekend. Zoolooman 20:22, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Hey, I'm calm, It's hard to express emotions through text so I completely understand that the above text might sound cold or angry-toned, but I assure you that's not the case :) That said, back on subject, you had already said that the current article does not have attributes, but based on the feedback on this page I would say it would make a welcome [re]addition as it would not "clutter" the page and it would give the article much more potential, for me and I'm sure many more users. You can still use it to compare damage but you'd be able to compare stats as well. Stab ! 20:33, 18 December 2010 (UTC)EDIT: I'm 11 minutes late, the wiki is slow today. Stab ! 20:38, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Nasty vs. Fancy update

Due to the recent update releasing much of the custom skins from Nasty vs. Fancy should we make a page for it? or just link it to the original page of the "Update" page? {{subst:void|This template should always be substituted. Please change {{Unsigned}} to {{subst:Unsigned}}}}— The preceding unsigned comment was added by CrazedPorcupine (talk) • (contribs) 05:46, 18 December 2010

I'd suggest just linking to the "Update" page since not all of the skins were made into legitimate items. That might set precedent for making pages for unofficial skins, which I believe might be confusing for new players. Larkke 14:32, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

Collapsible table sliding animation

I've noticed there is a new collapsible table animation on most navboxes. An example of it:

I think it looks cool but I often find it to perform slowly and in general is quite annoying, especially on the smaller navboxes (like the Achievement one above). I've also find it chops off the edges of some tables and if the table stretches across the page then it seems to not show the 'hide' button at all. Could we possibly restore it back to the old way of just opening and closing? seb26 [talk] 23:13, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure the speed is configurable. Could you give an example of a chopped table? --CruelCow ^(talk) 01:29, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

User:Seb26 and Crate#Series_.236_-_Festive_Winter_Crate (when closed). And even if it is configurable I still think it would look silly speeding open and closed. seb26 [talk] 02:05, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

Crate#Series_.236_-_Festive_Winter_Crate looks normal to me, User:Seb26 doesn't. But I agree, the hide/show animation is sluggish (sometimes my browser even freezes or displays a blank page for a sec before rendering the sloppy animation) and it would be better if it was removed or optimized or something. Stab ! 02:10, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

It's quite annoying and unprofessional when it chops the edges of tables off. There was nothing wrong with the old one. Can we revert it, or fix it please? – Smashman _(talk) 21:13, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

VINTAGE BAN HAMMER

An item which was recently discover was the Vintage Ban hammer.

It is described: "level 9001 mallet of banishment"

Bans steam accounts of players killed

In a lighter color text it says that the item is not real and a joke

Profile link http://www.tf2items.com/profiles/76561197960287930 --QuincytheDestroyer 13:26, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

It's a joke. See User talk:Nineaxis#Ban_Hammer. — NVis (talk) 13:35, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

Nav Boxes for all Previous Major Updates

I really like the update nav we have for new updates, but it only doesn't go back very far. Has there been any consideration to making navs for every major update (as in the updates listed as major updates on tf2.com)? I think for archival purposes, it would be a nice resource to know what maps were added with the Heavy update, for example. Balladofwindfishes 21:00, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

It's not a bad idea. I support. -- Swordz (talk | contribs) 21:03, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

 Support: Sounds like a great idea. – Smashman _(talk) 21:09, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

Yeah that'd be cool, as long as someone is willing to do it. seb26 [talk] 22:12, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

I took the liberty to create one to the Heavy Update (click dis), to test. However, when i tried to link "Videos" to the Meet the Team page, the template broke, so if someone knows how to fix it, feel free to edit the page -- Swordz (talk | contribs) 22:18, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

Here: Template:HeavyUpdateNav I think it looks ok. If the idea gets accepted, i can do the others -- Swordz (talk | contribs) 23:14, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

Update: Also did Template:PyroUpdateNav, Template:EngineerUpdateNav and Template:GoldrushUpdateNav. If an admin approves, i can start putting it on the respective pages.

You forgot Coldfront for the Engy update Balladofwindfishes 14:39, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

 Support I likez. The only thing I worry about is the number of navs on some articles, but that's another issue. —Moussekateer·talk 16:17, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

 Support Do it. And quit spamming this in the IRC please. -- OluapPlayer _(t) 16:19, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

Done. Also did Scout too. I'm going to try to do the rest latur. -- Swordz (talk | contribs) 16:56, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

I think everything that could be transformed into templates are done mates. Heavy, Pyro, Goldrush, War, Sniper vs Spy, Classless, Engineer. (Wintergreen did the classless one). -- Swordz (talk | contribs) 20:13, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

'Sockets' coming to TF2?

As in items that augment weapons. Read the stuff here. Everyone's probably seen it, but I thought I'd bring it up anyway. Should we cover it? Valve - making TF2 more like an MMO everyday. – Smashman _(talk) 15:23, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

Not sure. Valve have a history of adding attributes they don't use. There's a lot of attributes on this list that's been there for ages and never used. —Moussekateer·talk 15:25, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

True, but these definitely seem to have been added for a reason. Most of those unused attributes are general ideas they may have had. – Smashman _(talk) 15:32, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

"'TF_SacredMedicine_Desc' 'While under the effects, damage done\nand damage taken will be mini-crits.\nYou will also move much faster.'" - Sounds like the Buffalo Steak Sandvich to me. -The Neotank ( | Talk) 15:35, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

That's probably the name of the original peyote cactus that the steak was originally going to be. Since it has the same effect as the steak, this makes it more likely Balladofwindfishes 15:38, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

Class_nav Tranlation Switching

So, i made a test version of Scout_nav template with translation switching: http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/User:DrAkcel/NavProto. This version only works properly with Russian and French language (But this can be sure fixed). So, anyone want a real working version of this? Just vote here ^{(T | C)} 15:47, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

Possible New Items

Hello, from playing sam and max, devil's playhouse.

I got a few ideas for a new weapon and a some misc, items that I can think could go well with Poker Night winning items, the weapon is a shotgun that the character 'Stinky' owns in Sam and Max 304:Beyond the alley of the dolls for the engineer and a three badges that appear in Sam and Max 303: They Stole Max's Brain!, they are the badges that Sam much collect to get close to Max's body in the game.

I dont know if they suggestion goes here or not, so please correct me if it doesn't belong here NMWalker1991 00:29, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

We have no control over the game and as such suggesting stuff to us is useless. The Steam Forums are your best bet. – Smashman _(talk) 00:33, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

Normaly item suggestions don't go on the wiki, you can model them and suggest them to Valve or write an email to Valve to suggest the idea, but you could need TellTale's acknoledgement too. The best way is using the contribute site after modeling the items (Or write a thread on SPUF as Smashman suggested). Tturbo 00:35, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

By normally he means never. There's no point in suggesting it to us. We can't do anything about it. – Smashman _(talk) 00:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

Strategy pages based around combating classes?

I know we have the match-ups for each class, but that is more of a general overview than something in-depth. Just now, as we have strategy pages based around how to effectively play a class, couldn't we have pages based around how to effectively play against a class? It could even extend from general strategy to how to best counter or avoid specific weapons. For example, and disregard the potentially poor quality, but the idea is made nonetheless:

Stickybomb Launcher

• The Stickybomb Launcher becomes less efficient the closer you are to the Demoman, due to arming time.
• The Stickybomb Launcher has a long reload time. Take advantage of this by attacking the Demoman when he's empty.
• Shooting a rocket or other explosive around a corner will usually dislodge any stickies, revealing enemy sticky traps.
• Shooting armed stickies with most weapons will break them. Take them out from a safe distance to avoid being killed.

What say ye? --Bri 00:53, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

 Support - I don't have any objection against it; the only remark I have is that these pages, in order to stay of high quality, should be watched by a... watchful eye~ (you?). A good idea though :3 — Wind 21:38, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

 Support - People are more obsess with how they play one class that they lack the true knowledge to combat other classes. A good guide for this will surely help a newbie out. (Also causes less ignorant for those: OMGZ DEMOSPAM ESH TOOZ OP) Wintergreen 04:21, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

 Support - I support this style for newbies, makes perfect sense. —Moussekateer·talk 04:27, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

 Support - as long as it doesn't end up as messy as the Community Strategy pages, because those are utterly horrible to read through. I suppose it's easier to watch it from the beginning than trying to combat a mess later on, though; so I'm with Wind. -- Netshroud (talk | contribs) 04:28, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

 Support But only as long as the moderation is very strict. Zoolooman 05:14, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

The demonstration videos...

I was wondering, seeing as we are doing the weapon demonstration videos, mabey we could also do some polycount pack demonstration videos, you know like showing off the items and showing how the item set bonus works.