Difference between revisions of "Team Fortress Wiki talk:Weapon Demonstration"

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:{{c|Support}} I was just going to suggest this, I guess we'd put the demo videos on the stat bonus page. I have all the set bonuses, so if this gets approved I can help with it. Perhaps for the resistance ones we could have a 3rd person perspective showing the decrease of health differing or something of the sort. [[User:Raptor Llama|Raptor Llama]] 21:07, 21 January 2011 (UTC)
 
:{{c|Support}} I was just going to suggest this, I guess we'd put the demo videos on the stat bonus page. I have all the set bonuses, so if this gets approved I can help with it. Perhaps for the resistance ones we could have a 3rd person perspective showing the decrease of health differing or something of the sort. [[User:Raptor Llama|Raptor Llama]] 21:07, 21 January 2011 (UTC)
 
:{{c|Support}} It's probably going to be a leetle tricky to make the Heavy set bonus perceptible, but if someone can do it, it's us! &mdash;&nbsp;[[User:NVis|<span style="color:#202020;">nVis</span>]]&nbsp;[[User talk:NVis|<span style="font-size:smaller;color:#40beef;">(talk)</span>]] 18:58, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
 
:{{c|Support}} It's probably going to be a leetle tricky to make the Heavy set bonus perceptible, but if someone can do it, it's us! &mdash;&nbsp;[[User:NVis|<span style="color:#202020;">nVis</span>]]&nbsp;[[User talk:NVis|<span style="font-size:smaller;color:#40beef;">(talk)</span>]] 18:58, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
−
::As far as I can tell, there are two good choices for the heavy demonstration. Obviously, both heavies have to have the claws equipped. There are only two weapons that neither are streaming nor have bleed/fire/explosions associated with them: the GRU (3 critical hits vs. 4 for the kill. Very tight on the third hit on the set heavy, though), and L'étranger (also 3 vs. 4). If the set heavy eats the steak, and takes minicrits, there are more options. [[User:Armisael|Armisael]] 19:18, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
+
::As far as I can tell, there are two good choices for the heavy demonstration. Obviously, both heavies have to have the claws equipped. There's only one weapons that is neither streaming nor has a bleed/fire/explosion effect associated with it: the L'étranger (3 critical hits vs. 4). If the set heavy eats the steak, and takes minicrits, there are more options. [[User:Armisael|Armisael]] 19:18, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
 
:::I was thinking about shooting a crocket at the Heavies. Crockets do 270 damage, so both would survive. -- [[User:OluapPlayer|<font color="red">'''OluapPlayer'''</font>]] <sub>([[User_talk:OluapPlayer|t]])</sub> {{adm}} [[File:User OluapPlayer Sig.png|Howdy, pardner!]] 19:25, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
 
:::I was thinking about shooting a crocket at the Heavies. Crockets do 270 damage, so both would survive. -- [[User:OluapPlayer|<font color="red">'''OluapPlayer'''</font>]] <sub>([[User_talk:OluapPlayer|t]])</sub> {{adm}} [[File:User OluapPlayer Sig.png|Howdy, pardner!]] 19:25, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
 +
::::That's the problem with almost every weapon in the game; they don't distinguish between a set heavy and a non-set heavy with the claws. A quick scroll down the weapon page makes it seem as if the bats (basher excepted) are the only thing added by the minicrits. The chart below shows the ranges that the base weapon damage has to be in; they're absurdly tight, and absurdly rare.
 +
 +
{| class="wikitable grid" align="Left" style="text-align: center;margin-bottom: 10px"
 +
! class="header" | Number of Hits to non-set kill
 +
! class="header" | Maximum Base (full crit)
 +
! class="header" | Minimum Base (full crit)
 +
! class="header" | Maximum Base (minicrit)
 +
! class="header" | Minimum Base (minicrit)
 +
|-
 +
|align="left"|'''One'''
 +
|98
 +
|94
 +
|219
 +
|208
 +
|-
 +
|align="left"|'''Two'''
 +
|49
 +
|47
 +
|109
 +
|104
 +
|-
 +
|align="left"|'''Three'''
 +
|32
 +
|32 (L'étranger)
 +
|72
 +
|70
 +
|-
 +
|align="left"|'''Four'''
 +
|24
 +
|24
 +
|54
 +
|52
 +
|-
 +
|align="left"|'''Five'''
 +
|19
 +
|19
 +
|43
 +
|42
 +
|-
 +
|align="left"|'''Six'''
 +
|16
 +
|16
 +
|36
 +
|35 (bat)
 +
|-
 +
|align="left"|'''Seven'''
 +
|14
 +
|14
 +
|31
 +
|30
 +
|}
 +
<br clear="all" />
 +
Overanalyzed for this conversation? Probably.
  
 
== Scottish Resistance ==
 
== Scottish Resistance ==

Revision as of 19:57, 24 January 2011

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Demonstrating item sets

Here's an idea: demonstration for item sets. Demos of stuff like:

  • Scout with 125 HP gets hit. Set Scout with 150 HP hets hit.
  • Soldier gets hit by sentry. Set Soldier with set gets hit by sentry and survives longer.
  • Pyro runs, get killed by boolets. Set Pyro runs faster, get killed by boolets faster.
  • Demo gets hit by fire. Set Demo gets hit by fire and takes less damage.
  • Heavy gets hit by crits. Set Heavy gets hit by crits and survives longer (?)
  • Medic takes damage, recovers health. Set Medic takes damage, recovers health faster.
  • Sniper gets headshooted. Set Sniper gets headshotted and survives.
  • Spy cloaks, decloaks, bumps into someone. Set Spy decloaks with no sound, bumps into someone too.

And stuff like that. Of course, that would require people to have the set hats. -- OluapPlayer (t) Howdy, pardner! 21:56, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

Pictogram plus.png Support Yes, I like dis weapons. — Wind 21:57, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
Pictogram minus.png Oppose According to the project page, the point of this project is to "To demonstrate how weapons work (duh); firing animation, reloading animation, projectile trajectory, speed, damage, and simply viewmodel". I feel like demonstrating sets doesn't apply to 6/7 of those objectives. IMHO, the set bonuses are quite simple and self explanatory in comparison to some of the weapons --Nate (T | C) 23:17, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
Pictogram plus.png Support If you're sticking strictly to the objectives, then all non-projectile weapons and melee weapons each disobey one of the seven. Plus there's no reason not to show it; for example, some people might want to see just how well a tank-busting Soldier can stand up to a Sentry. Either way, if we do make these videos, I'd suggest putting them on the pages for the set hats rather than the main Item sets page - BUT the Demo and Medic sets don't actually include hats, so that might be a problem. Ideas? —烏Γ (kaw at me), 02:06, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
Pictogram plus.png SupportI think this is a good idea. I've always been curious has to how much the sets do, like for the Tankbuster I don't know how big of a deal 20% is. I say go for it. KingofKoopas 04:00, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
Pictogram plus.png Support I was just going to suggest this, I guess we'd put the demo videos on the stat bonus page. I have all the set bonuses, so if this gets approved I can help with it. Perhaps for the resistance ones we could have a 3rd person perspective showing the decrease of health differing or something of the sort. Raptor Llama 21:07, 21 January 2011 (UTC)
Pictogram plus.png Support It's probably going to be a leetle tricky to make the Heavy set bonus perceptible, but if someone can do it, it's us! — nVis (talk) 18:58, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
As far as I can tell, there are two good choices for the heavy demonstration. Obviously, both heavies have to have the claws equipped. There's only one weapons that is neither streaming nor has a bleed/fire/explosion effect associated with it: the L'étranger (3 critical hits vs. 4). If the set heavy eats the steak, and takes minicrits, there are more options. Armisael 19:18, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
I was thinking about shooting a crocket at the Heavies. Crockets do 270 damage, so both would survive. -- OluapPlayer (t) Howdy, pardner! 19:25, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
That's the problem with almost every weapon in the game; they don't distinguish between a set heavy and a non-set heavy with the claws. A quick scroll down the weapon page makes it seem as if the bats (basher excepted) are the only thing added by the minicrits. The chart below shows the ranges that the base weapon damage has to be in; they're absurdly tight, and absurdly rare.
Number of Hits to non-set kill Maximum Base (full crit) Minimum Base (full crit) Maximum Base (minicrit) Minimum Base (minicrit)
One 98 94 219 208
Two 49 47 109 104
Three 32 32 (L'étranger) 72 70
Four 24 24 54 52
Five 19 19 43 42
Six 16 16 36 35 (bat)
Seven 14 14 31 30


Overanalyzed for this conversation? Probably.

Scottish Resistance

I wanted to try my hand at weapon demonstration, so I reserved a gun. Only afterwards did I realize that the Resistance requires a ton of stuff to be shown:

  • Faster firing speed
  • Maximum placed stickies
  • Slower arm time
  • Selective detonation
    • Sticky jumping still possible
  • Breaking stickies

These are what I'm going to try to demonstrate later. If anyone thinks of stuff to add beforehand, go ahead - I'll check the page before I start recording. — nVis (talk) 00:32, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

Be sure to show that stickies det if they're near you, whether you're looking at them or not. Armisael 01:06, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

I had some trouble with codecs and syncing the audio, but eventually managed to get it working after several attempts: Scottish Resistance v1. It demonstrates most of what I wanted it to, but it doesn't exactly follow the proposed format. I'm pretty happy with the timing, though. — nVis (talk) 23:31, 22 January 2011 (UTC)
Here is the original AVI file, just in case. — nVis (talk) 00:31, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
Not bad for a first attempt~ But some things should be improved.
  • Always reload at the end of a clip (before taunting, and after jumping on 2fort)
  • The main purpose of the scottish resistance is the ability to detonate stickies in an arbitrary manner, and I think this video fails to demonstrate this properly. For instance, show how the outlines become blue depending on cursor position, make a sticky carpet and explode it progressively, etc; this would show it better than by making clusters.
  • Faster firing speed should be demonstrated by split-screen: have two demoman firing 8 stickybombs as fast as possible (don't forget to reload)
  • You should also show arming time with a split-screen, by having them fire a sticky and exploding as soon as possible
  • This clip shows what happens when you drop more than 14 stickybombs at 0:51. This is a good thing to show, keep it in (just saying this in case it was unintended)

— Wind 02:47, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedback. Here's a version with a different bombing approach and split screen views to illustrate the differences (download). — nVis (talk) 10:42, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
I noticed that my last video had a slight problem with one of the fadeouts, and was missing ammo counts during the firing speed comparison (a pretty significant flaw). I ended up using a panning motion to reveal the ammo counts in a hopefully non-distracting way. The arm time comparison doesn't display them, but only two bombs are fired, so it shouldn't be necessary. Uploaded on YouTube and MediaFire. — nVis (talk) 14:32, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Good job with the Stickybomb-Scottish Resistance comparison, but...

  • Premature loading at 0:50 before Taunt. Let your Clip empty before reloading.
    • Considering you fully loaded before taunting, it may have been recommended to use editing Software to plant that part at the end.
  • Bots not killed in order. Not a big problem that needs a re-take though.
  • Might be a good idea to put a SR Bomb behind an obstacle on purpose to show you can still see its Aura. Lancer anti-tank Rocket 16:24, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
0:50 is not a premature reload; always reload before taunting/when clip is over. Bot order is a worthy sacrifice to make because that way it makes it easier to show how stickies can be exploded selectively. Agree about the aura thing though. On to my analysis~
  • Reshoot the clip at 0:41: We should be able to see the Demoman firing his stickies, otherwise they're not obviously visible. Since the stickies shouldn't be all clustered in one single place, you should have a friend drop them, or using bot_mimic with some clever bot_mimic_yaw_offset value. Also, we don't properly see the Demoman's behind when taunting; move a bit toward the fence before taunting.
  • The panning to show the ammo count isn't necessary. It looks kind of disturbing (non-natural camera movement) and doesn't bring much value (they know that both weapons have 8 stickies already)

— Wind 00:55, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Alright, I've uploaded version 4 (download). I added a scene that demonstrates detonating stickies through a wall, reshot the sticky destroying part, and removed the admittedly disorienting panning effect. — nVis (talk) 15:59, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

As promised

Any thoughts about showing the crit-negating effects of the battalion's backup? The current video doesn't show it, but it ought to be shown. Having a friend kritz a bot could certainly work, but if anyone can think of a simply solution that would be nice. Armisael 01:16, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

Have a splitscreen with a sniper trying to headshot you, maybe? - Zhnigo 20:53, 22 January 2011 (UTC)
No, it is not obvious to see that he was aiming for the head. — Wind 02:47, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
Both Minigun and Iron Curtain continue playing for some time after the video has ended, but that can be fixed easily. Aside that, I couldn't find anything else wrong with them. Well done. 20xx0 10:28, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

That has been fixed. Armisael 13:30, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

You are quite right about the battalion's backup. Kritz medic seems to be the best solution, and the most obvious one when demonstrating things with critical hits involved (like the heavy set bonus effect).
As for the videos, I only got a problem with the Backburner one, when demonstrating damage on the Soldier: Are you sure the minimum amount of damage possible when puffing is 5? Try going backward just a little bit and see. Also, when demonstrating the closest-possible damage, we can't see the damage number. All other videos are good, thanks a lot :3 — Wind 02:47, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
Backburner redone. I'm at the maximum range, as demonstrated in the video. I suspect that 4s are possible, becuase I think I saw some, but I couldn't reliable produce them. Armisael 03:24, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Build/Destroy PDAs

Seemed simple enough. I could shave five seconds off the video by not killing the Spy and I was wondering, should hauling buildings be demonstrated with this? It's not specific to the PDA but the PDA allows for building construction, and those buildings can be hauled, so...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7IqeHmjlyE i-ghost 11:16, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

Don't kill the Spy indeed. It's interesting to show that you can't destroy a building though. But are you using the pldx particles again? The buildings explosion seem to use custom particles.
Oops, pldx particles on by accident from recording non-wiki footage, my bad. What about hauling buildings though? Should I demonstrate that? i-ghost 13:22, 23 January 2011 (UTC) (forgot to sign, sorry)
I don't think so. I think there'll be Buildings Demonstrations later so they should be shown there. — Wind 19:25, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

New version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ay8jQFfUePE i-ghost 17:32, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Equalizer

Equalizer on YouTube Backburner will be later.

Wrong aspect ratio, Equalizer not equipped in loadout screen.20xx0 22:58, 22 January 2011 (UTC)
What 20xx0 said, plus:
  • Is in Russian D: (You probably already knew that one)
  • Should show when you have about ~150 HP if possible
  • Try taking damage from the enemies (press F to make them fire) instead of self-damage

— Wind 02:47, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Tell me, please, how to start game in English. I tried to set language in Steam, but changes only voice commands. User-Gringo Perm.jpg Gringo perm 05:10, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
Well that's... weird... Maybe change the language and then reinstall TF2? (But you probably don't feel like doing that, I'm guessing). Otherwise, try overwriting tf_russian.txt with the contents of tf_english.txt. — Wind 06:57, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
F@$# yeah! I've set English language of Steam, and game was translated automaticly! User-Gringo Perm.jpg Gringo perm 08:26, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
I've redone video! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IX3t_0pfgW0 - here it is! User-Gringo Perm.jpg Gringo perm 10:21, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
Still the aspect ratio is wrong, and don't rotate the model in loadout screen while already recording. 20xx0 11:28, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
I have small monitor (15') with maximum resolution 1024x768. User-Gringo Perm.jpg Gringo perm 11:32, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
Well, then I'm afraid you can't do weapon demonstrations :( The minimum is 720p, which at 16:9 means 1280x720. D: The video demonstration content is good though — Wind 19:25, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
Hmm... FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!! Excuse me... I NEED AT LEAST 200$ TO MAKE VIDEO DEMONSTRATION!!! I HAVE NO MONEY AT ALL!!! Excuse me, again. THAT'S UNFAIR!!! I don't know WTF is happend with me... User-Gringo Perm.jpg Gringo perm 19:34, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
Yes, I'm sorry, but this does discriminate people based on hardware. This is a necessary evil in order to maintain a consistent quality. :( — Wind 19:45, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
Well, I'll try to repair my old 32' TV on next weekend and, maybe, will make videos for another weapons. User-Gringo Perm.jpg Gringo perm 19:50, 23 January 2011 (UTC)


Oh no, YOU I do not forget...

Hey Guys, I'm just about to have a go at The Sandvich Demonstration. Just warming up Fraps now so...yeah, I guess I'm reserving The Sandvich. I've read the plan so I know what to do (Assuming I can pull it off). Lancer anti-tank Rocket 10:46, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Aspect ratio is off, (black borders cutting off the video) Shock394 18:37, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
Yeah I don't know why/how to resolve that. Lancer anti-tank Rocket 19:02, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Sorted 'n' Uploaded. Here you go! Lancer anti-tank Rocket 14:17, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Sorry but this is still not 16:9 D: (has black borders around it), the framerate is low, it's not HD, and it is not antialiased. — Wind 19:25, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
How the hell do I fix said problems? I ain't done crap like this before... Lancer anti-tank Rocket 20:42, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
Anti-aliasing and ratio are settings in options->video. Make sure that your ratio is at least 1280x720. The frame rate? Well...that's a matter of squeezing more power out of your computer. If push comes to shove, you can take a demo at really low settings, then use fraps on a playback of that (at high settings). Armisael 20:46, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
Well I never knew what anti-aliasing did and I didn't spot Aspect Ratio. My Monitor Supports 1280X1024 (Native Resolution) so it should have no problem with that. Framerate I can't seem to boost, don't know about getting HD, but thanks for the Info. I'll see what I can do... Lancer anti-tank Rocket 20:52, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
Videos must be 16:9, so pick "16:9" under the "Aspect ratio" menu (in TF2's video options) and pick any resolution that is equal or larger than 1280x720. As for the framerate, type cl_showfps 1 in console to have an idea of what framerate you're getting, then start the recording. Fraps will "take away" frames from you (so if your card gets 45 fps, and you set Fraps to record at 30 fps, you will only see 15 fps, and Fraps will record the 30 other ones). The objective is to have 30 frames recorded or more every second. If you can't seem to reach that, then you probably have to use the source recorder and merge videos to include the backpack view... Which is quite a bit harder. — Wind 00:16, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
Actually, the source recorder does display the backpack view if you go into into it. I have no idea if this is new, and if it is, when it was implemented, but I did use it in my battalion's backup and backburner videos. Armisael 03:17, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
Hold on, what's the optimal anti-aliasing variable to use? Lancer anti-tank Rocket 13:31, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
2x is the minimum required, higher is better — Wind 15:01, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Backburner

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCfD-MVMz-k - look at this! User-Gringo Perm.jpg Gringo perm 10:56, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Very nice! Nice work showing the Backburner critting from behind. Just a couple petty things I would've added: The Backburner having no Compression Blast (Soldier's Rockets will work) and said Backburner shown doing slightly more damage than the Flamethrower. Lancer anti-tank Rocket 11:09, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
For this purpose there is a Flamethrower Demonstration.User-Gringo Perm.jpg Gringo perm 14:01, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
It is a good weapon demonstration but has the wrong aspect ratio :( In the meantime, Armisael has done his own Backburner video, so I think it'll be used. — Wind 19:25, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
*WALL*. I think, when I'll buy new monitor, all demonstration videos will be allready created =((( Hmm... Wait a sec, I have an old 32' TV with DVI cable jack. It have a resolution 1280*720... I'll try to switch on and connect it to my computer, when I'll have free time. User-Gringo Perm.jpg Gringo perm 19:40, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
Don't be silly, at the rate VALVe is going, there may be more stuff to demonstrate than what's on the list right now. I'm sure you'll find something. Lancer anti-tank Rocket 14:21, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Not so smart with your Brains OUTSIDE your head are ya?

I just came up with a suggestion for the Razorback Video. What you could do is hide RED Spy behind the Player and empty his Revolver Ammo so he's using his Knife. Then have BLU Sniper pick off RED Pyro and RED Soldier, then RED Spy breaks his Razorback (via Bot Commands). BLU Sniper spins round and dispatches RED Spy before finishing with RED Medic. It might also be a good idea to have a shot from RED Spy's Point of View as to show the Knife being disabled and RED Spy being unable to do anything until his Knife cools down. It's a random plan I just thought of for the Vid. Whaddya say? Lancer anti-tank Rocket 16:45, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Well, there already is a Razorback demonstration (the only problem with it is the aspect ratio). It uses a third-person view to show the sniper, and a picture-in-picture thing to show the spy's first-person perspective. I don't think the Sniper should be "busy" with other targets, as it distracts attention from the main purpose of the demonstration: the Razorback. However, I agree that it should contain the sniper's first-person perspective while scoped in, to show that it makes the Sniper unscope. — Wind 19:25, 23 January 2011 (UTC)


Crit-a-cola

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijmdr7jFSLw --The preceding unsigned comment was added by Innolarp (talk) • (contribs)

Not bad, but there are things to modify.
  • Technical prolems: It is letterboxed (has black bars on all sides), and the in-game audio is low compared to the music
  • Music isn't long enough; pick a longer song. It's okay if it's longer than the video, as long as you add a fadeout at the end
  • Since damage is based on distance, you're actually doing less damage to the Soldier with the Crit-a-Cola than to the Pyro without the Crit-a-Cola. To fix this, shoot both once, drink, then shoot both again.
  • The Crit-a-Cola also makes the wearer take mini-crit instead of regular shots. The video needs to show this, preferably using a split-screen of showing the damage you get from a rocket while under the effect and while not under the effect

— Wind 02:10, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Pictogram plus.png Agree - about music: use cp_steel music, becasue it's the longeas training_*.mp3, and it's easy to cut it in audio redactor.User-Gringo Perm.jpg Gringo perm 09:39, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

thanks i'll do that Information.png Please make use of the Show preview button. It gives you a preview of the edit you make, allowing you to perfect it before you save the page.

Buildings

So, what's the plan with these? How are we going to show their backpack pages (are we at all)?

The way I see it, the videos should show the following:

  • Build time (unwrenched)
  • Health at each level
  • Upgrading
  • Damage at each level (sentries; perhaps just put it in the player box and let it kill everything? Is the mini tall enough for that?)
  • Heal rate/metal recharge rate at each level (dispenser only)
  • Recharge rate at each level (teleport)
  • Telefragging, in all it's glory (teleport, obv.)

Any others? - Armisael 19:02, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

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