Team Fortress Wiki talk:Weapon Demonstration

Needed

Box Trot

 This demonstration has been reserved: Karmacharger 1:13 PM 7/13/2015 (PDT)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0M8vQVcLJA Karmacharger 11:08 PM 7/15/2015 (PDT)

Can't srcdemo this one. Because of the taunt menu bug and other bugs Karmacharger 11:09 PM 7/15/2015 (PDT)

That's fine. Is good, please upload~ — Wind 18:10, 26 July 2015 (PDT)

Proletariat Posedown

 This demonstration has been reserved: Karmacharger 7:38 PM 7/15/2015 (PDT)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_w0PeugdZhI Karmacharger 11:08 PM 7/15/2015 (PDT)

Is good, please upload~ — Wind 18:10, 26 July 2015 (PDT)

Grappling Hook

(I mean, if nothing else, it is able to kill players.) Dogman15 (talk) 02:26, 24 December 2014 (PST)

I don't know, but, Grappling Hook is having several changes each update, so every time an update releases, it would be need to re-made the entire video. In my opinion, I would wait until Mannpower to release it completely before doing a Weapon Demonstration video. ▪ - 08:37, 16 March 2015 (PDT)

Yeah I agree with Gabrielwoj, otherwise we'd be constantly doing this demonstration :( Obilisk 13:32, 17 March 2015 (PDT)

Pumpkin bomb

does it really need a video? Karmacharger 4:52 AM 10/19/2014 (PDT)

Not really. That or the other mechanics would need videos too (ghosts, halloween bosses, spells, etc) — Wind 19:59, 27 October 2014 (PDT)

Tools

Gift Wrap

Does this still need to be done? I can do it. ~Hi5TBone 4:45 PM 6/12/2015 (CST)

No one seems to have touched it, so go ahead. Obilisk 05:11, 13 June 2015 (PDT)

Upgrade to Premium Gift

I'm not quite sure if this one is necessary Karmacharger 9:12 PM 8/24/2014 (PDT)

Nah, probably not unless someone just happens to run upon that item — Wind 19:59, 27 October 2014 (PDT)

Cosmetics

Boston Boom-Bringer

 Demonstration of how the sound effect works

Pardon me if I'm putting in the wrong place, but I noticed that Infernal Orchestrina includes the demonstration. I know that was for a pyroland item, but what if the Boston Boom-Bringer had a demonstration video where it shows the sound effect that is played when taunting? Just like the Orchestrina had (albeit the Pyroland thing). There is several sound effects, though, so all of them has to be played. ▪ - 21:32, 26 March 2015 (PDT)

Infernal Orchestrina was demonstrated because it turns pyroland vision on by itself, not because of the sound effect it adds. This item has no such dramatic change, so no need to demonstrate — Wind 15:08, 29 March 2015 (PDT)

Alright, thanks. ▪ - 15:12, 29 March 2015 (PDT)

Need to be redone

Air Strike

 Removed clipsize penalty

 Reduced radius penalty from -15% to -10%

 Reduced damage penalty from -25% to -15%

 Rocket jump blast damage reduction reduced from -25% to -15%

 This demonstration has been reserved: Karmacharger 2:16 PM 7/5/2015 (PDT)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hGvjL7nDJU Karmacharger 1:16 AM 7/7/2015 (PDT)

Will render with srcdemo2 if the clips are good Karmacharger 1:19 AM 7/7/2015 (PDT)

Is good, please render~ — Wind 15:20, 12 July 2015 (PDT)

srcdemo2 version https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XP2gnThgspA Karmacharger 3:50 AM 7/15/2015 (PDT)

Is good, please upload~ — Wind 18:10, 26 July 2015 (PDT)

Ali Baba's Wee Booties

 Added +10% movement speed bonus

 Changed 25 charge on charge kill to 25 charge on melee kill

 This demonstration has been reserved: Obilisk 20:12, 8 August 2015 (PDT)

The demonstration is almost identical to the Bootlegger so I have provided a download link with it. Watch Download Obilisk 01:45, 17 August 2015 (PDT)

Ambassador

 Spy no longer smacks himself in the face while reloading a revolver

 This demonstration has been reserved: Obilisk 00:01, 4 July 2015 (PDT)

How's this? I added the additional clip as I thought it could be nice to compare the firing speed and damage. If you don't think it's necessary I can easily take it out. Obilisk 21:42, 4 July 2015 (PDT)

Damage comparison is usually not demonstrated (because the first clip already demonstrates what damage it does), but coupled with speed comparison I guess it's fine. Please upload~ — Wind 21:54, 4 July 2015 (PDT)

Sweet, Download. Obilisk 22:03, 4 July 2015 (PDT)

Baby Face's Blaster

 Added Boost reduction on taking damage.

 Increased amount of Boost lost on air jump

 This demonstration has been reserved: Jimbo Jones (talk) 09:27, 29 August 2015 (PDT) I'll do it. I've been noticing the demonstrations have been falling behind, we should get stuff done. Jimbo Jones (talk) 09:27, 29 August 2015 (PDT)

Bazaar Bargain

 No longer lose heads on miss

 Collecting a head requires a headshot kill and not just a headshot

 Each head boosts charge rate by 25% up to 200%

 Charge rate penalty changed from -20% to -50%.

 Now requires 2 headshot kills to be back at base speed and 6 kills for 200% charge rate

 This demonstration has been reserved: Marguy 06:48, 6 July 2015 (EST)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-aD1H9VfvU How's this? Marguy (talk) 19:38, 7 July 2015 (PDT)

Nice. Is good, please upload~ — Wind

Hey Marguy, congratulation getting your first video approved without any problems. Please upload the video to mediafire or any other websites you prefer, then drop the link here. Karmacharger 4:32 PM 7/14/2015 (PDT)

Thanks, and sorry about the delay in uploading. Anyway, when I was clearing out my TF folder it seems I accidentally deleted most of the .dem files. I tried recovering them, but they unfortunately seem to be gone for good. Will this be an issue? Download. Marguy (talk) 14:04, 18 July 2015 (PDT)

Since this is your first demonstration Marguy it shouldn't be an issue. However in the future .dem files are pretty much compulsory, so try refrain from deleting them haha. Obilisk 18:25, 18 July 2015 (PDT)

Big Earner

 Added 3 second speed gain on kill

 This demonstration has been reserved: Karmacharger 2:16 PM 7/5/2015 (PDT)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhbRYURREW8 Will srcdemo2 if the clips are good, i know the last clip has some lagging while turning the screen. Karmacharger 11:48 PM 7/8/2015 (PDT)

Well hopefully that doesn't show up when srcdemo2'd. Please render+upload~ — Wind 15:20, 12 July 2015 (PDT)

srcdemo2 version https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gq5Hd9Z54Z8 Karmacharger 8:07 PM 7/16/2015 (PDT)

Is good, please upload~ — Wind 18:10, 26 July 2015 (PDT)

Big Kill

 Spy no longer smacks himself in the face while reloading a revolver

 This demonstration has been reserved: Karmacharger 2:16 PM 7/5/2015 (PDT)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pyELwGm8x0 Karmacharger 6:36 PM 7/5/2015 (PDT)

Is good, please upload~ — Wind 15:20, 12 July 2015 (PDT)

Black Box

 Changed +15 health on hit to +20 health on hit per attack

 Changed how health on hit works for radius damage. Is now capped per attack and scales with total damage done relative to base damage.

Bonk! Atomic Punch

 Updated description to better detail the weapon's features.

Bootlegger

 Added +10% movement speed bonus

 Changed 25 charge on charge kill to 25 charge on melee kill

 This demonstration has been reserved: Obilisk 20:11, 8 August 2015 (PDT)

How's this? If it is all good I will finish the Ali Baba's wee booties too. Obilisk 03:39, 10 August 2015 (PDT)

Music mixing near the end is meh, but rest is good. Please upload~ — Wind 15:56, 16 August 2015 (PDT)

I rendered the video again with better music. Watch Download Obilisk 00:56, 17 August 2015 (PDT)

Brass Beast

 Added 20% damage resistance while spun up

 This demonstration has been reserved: Thedop 22:05, 11 August 2015 (UTC+2)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9g7_aqz1bY&feature=youtu.be

My first try, How's this ?

Hey Thedop,

Very nice for your first demonstration. A few very small things I picked out though:

• In the loadout screen it'd be nicer if you could try get the minigun to not be under the pop up at all, so it's completely in sight.
• All three of your splitscreens appear to have the hud in different positions. When the transitions to the next splitscreen happens you can see the hud moving. Are the splitscreens perhaps not all identically 'split' and centered?
• Since you're possibly redoing the second clip, while you're at it I'd suggest the starting positions for each of the clips to be identical. (the minigun on the right has to re position after spinning up.)
• You should try have the soldier sync up his rockets with both clips during the last splitscreen. I'd say try at least sync the first rocket.

Overall very good for your first attempt Thedop, just a few very small problems to fix. This is all however, just my opinion. Wind will give you another review when he comes on, so it may be worth waiting for him. Good luck! Obilisk 06:45, 14 August 2015 (PDT)

Three more things:

• The video is interlaced.
• Would be nice with more antialiasing and anisotropic filtering, also increased bitrate because some edges are blurry
• For Minigun demonstrations, advance up until you are touching the front wooden barrier of the box you spawn in. This hides the clipping of the muzzleflash against the wooden box.

Thanks and good luck~ — Wind 15:56, 16 August 2015 (PDT)

(Sorry for my english) Thanks both of you, i hope i made an improvement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlBmv_50NmQ&feature=youtu.be

Unfortunaly, i coudn't do anything to fix this problem [1], TF2 is on max setting and it still happening. Thedop 16:16, 20 August 2015 (UTC+2)

Buffalo Steak Sandvich

 Updated description to note that this item can be thrown (alt-fire) to supply players with a medkit

Bushwacka

 Changed penalty from +20% fire vulnerability to +20% damage vulnerability while active

 This demonstration has been reserved: Akuago220, The Jungle Expeditioner (talk) 06:47, 3 July 2015 (PDT)

Claidheamh Mór

 Changed 25 charge on charge kill to 25 charge on melee kill

Cloak and Dagger

 Can now pick up ammo kits for cloak meter while visible.

 While invisible, Spy receives 20% less damage from all damage sources

 While invisible, Spy has reduced timer on debuffs (fire, jarate, milk, bleed)

Combat Mini-Sentry Gun

 Mini Sentries can now be repaired and wrench construction boosted

 Mini Sentry base build speed decreased. Mini Sentries that are wrench boosted build slightly faster than previously.

 Mini Sentries start at 50% health on construction and gain health during construction instead of starting at 100%

 This demonstration has been reserved: Karmacharger 2:12 PM 7/9/2015 (PDT)

I'll give it a shot Karmacharger 2:12 PM 7/9/2015 (PDT)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoFUTowiKB8 First time doing building demonstration, though it might not be good as Armisael's video. Sorry for not rendering the video to 1080p, i was in a bit of rush, will srcdemo2 + 1080p for final version Karmacharger 4:11 PM 7/17/2015 (PDT)

Yeah, demo is fine but video quality is not. Please rerender in higher quality — Wind 18:10, 26 July 2015 (PDT)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiaUjTPhrfQ The clips where the red scout running around the sentry was not recorded with source recorder, because it took a lot of tries... but now that i know how it works, i'll try not to use fraps next time. Karmacharger 11:13 PM 8/1/2015 (PDT)

It's fine, there's not a lot of movement in the clip that would be smoother otherwise. Video title is misnamed. This should be Combat Mini-Sentry Gun demo, not Gunslinger demo. Make sure to put the right title when uploading to the youtube channel. Please upload~ — Wind 16:50, 2 August 2015 (PDT)

Conniver's Kunai

 Health penalty reduced from -65 to -55 (70 Health total)

 Minimum Health gain of 75 on kill

 Maximum overheal from Kunai increased from 195 to 210

Crusader's Crossbow

 Updated description to better detail the weapon's features.

Updated once again, needs a redo. InstantMan (talk) 17:31, 10 August 2015 (PDT)

Dalokohs Bar

 Now has 10 second cool down on use

 Can now overheal up to 400hp

 Can be thrown (alt-fire) as a small medkit for other players to use

 Updated description to note that this item can be thrown (alt-fire) to supply players with a medkit

Dead Ringer

 Cloak mechanism has been overhauled (see patch notes)

Detonator

 This demonstration has been reserved: - Uufje 08:02, 19 August 2015 (PDT)

 Added text to describe 100% minicrits on burning targets

 Slightly increased blast jump height when doing a Detonator jump

 Increased blast radius from 92Hu to 110Hu

 Detonated explosions now also minicrit burning targets

 Increased damage penalty to -25%

 Increased self-damage penalty from +25% to +50%

Diamondback

 Spy no longer smacks himself in the face while reloading a revolver

Disguise Kit

 Disguise kit menu appearance has been updated.

 Changing to a new disguise while already under a disguise takes 0.5 seconds instead of the normal disguise time of 2 seconds

Is this still needed? I didn't notice any significant changes from before(If any) JamesCatty (talk) 12:10, 30 October 2014 (PDT)

Yes, I believe so. "Modified the Disguise Kit menu. It now has a Spy Mask icon in the upper-left corner and a white line above the class portraits." - Quoted from the June 11th patch. Obilisk 18:01, 30 October 2014 (PDT)

Alrighty, I guess I will go ahead and do it when I get time (a few hours) JamesCatty (talk) 18:15, 30 October 2014 (PDT)

Would it be worth also showing that being undisguised and invisible won't let you use an enemy dispenser, but being disguised and invisible will? Obilisk 03:27, 10 February 2015 (PST)

The cloak demonstrations already show this but it's not a bad idea to show it here too — Wind 16:24, 16 February 2015 (PST)

Dispenser

 Increased base wrench construction speed on hit boost by 50%. Buildings now build 2.5x faster instead of just 2x (additive of 1.5x + base speed)

 This demonstration has been reserved: Karmacharger 3:02 PM 7/27/2015 (PDT)

Enforcer

 Spy no longer smacks himself in the face while reloading a revolver

 Changed +20% damage bonus while undisguised to +20% damage bonus while disguised

Enthusiast's Timepiece

 While invisible, Spy receives 20% less damage from all damage sources

 While invisible, Spy has reduced timer on debuffs (fire, jarate, milk, bleed)

Equalizer

 Changed no healing penalty to 90% less healing from Medics while active

Escape Plan

 Changed no healing penalty to 90% less healing from Medics while active

Eureka Effect

 This demonstration has been reserved: - Uufje 02:03, 3 July 2015 (PDT)

 Previous penalties have been removed and replaced with the following: Construction hit speed boost decreased by 50%, 50% less metal from pickups and dispensers

 Teleporters and Dispensers redeploy +50% faster (2.5x without wrench boost, 5.5x with wrench boost)

 Building pick up speed penalty reduced from 25% to 10%

 Building repair costs increased from 20 metal to 33 metal to repair 100hp per wrench hit (from 5HP per metal to 3HP per metal)

I suggest showing that teammates with other wrenches will still upgrade and repair your buildings at normal rates. If this is wrong, pardon me, but please do include that in the Weapon Demonstration regardless. Green5 (talk) 04:54, 2 December 2014 (PST)

Equivalently, with the Eureka Effect you upgrade other Engineers' buildings at the slower rate. I think it's pretty clear from the item description that the lower upgrade rate is a property of the weapon itself, rather than a property of the buildings that the Engineers equipping it can build. If someone thinks that's not clear though, then this demonstration is OK to redo. — Wind 18:00, 7 December 2014 (PST)

Is this good? Please read the description of the video. Here it is. Luiz7578 (talk) 14:34, 16 May 2015 (PDT)

Excellent, not bad for your first start but here's what i noticed (pardon me if i have made any grammar mistake)

• At 0:41 kick the red Spy if you don't need him for your demonstration, unless you are demonstrating an taunt kill
• At 0:43 the clip ends and change too soon, after you taunt, wait a few seconds then change. Same as for other clips.
• At 1:27 video glitch
• At 1:45 when you look at your dispenser, pause the video and look at down-right corner, you can see there's a Pyro corpse and obviously there are bloods. Type r_cleardecals on your console and it will clean up all the bloods and bullet holes but not the corpses
• At 1:50 Missing wrench hit sound
• At 2:11 Your own corpse on ground
• At 2:37 during the video-changing effect there's a half second video glitch
• At 3:17 again the clip ends too soon

That was all i found, currently Karmacharger 11:38 PM 5/17/2015 (PDT)

All of what Karmacharger said is good. Other things I noticed as well:

• The field of view seems off. Did you run weaponref.cfg?
• 1:16-1:19: Clips start/end too quickly
• 2:01: Poor music mixing
• 3:47: Clip ends too soon
• Please use the splitscreen HUD for splitscreen clips so that we can see the engineer's buildings in the top left of the clips.
• Video quality is indeed not really good. The final review version needs to look good, and for first-time demonstrations it's also useful to have the first review version be at high quality as well for quality checking. If your bandwidth is capped, you can take a 10-second part of the video, render that in 1080p, and upload just that part. If the rest of the video in the final version has the same quality as that 1080p 10-second sample, then you can upload further review versions at low quality. Please don't do this if your bandwidth is not limited though.

— Wind 16:59, 17 May 2015 (PDT)

Whoa, I was not even expecting a response. I'll be working on these problems and sending the full quality 1080p videos. Luiz7578 (talk) 19:11, 22 May 2015 (PDT)

https://youtu.be/YOh0ChABG6c - and in no less than 60 FPS! - Uufje 06:18, 8 July 2015 (PDT)

At 4:20 the buildings blow up by themselves. Please use the destroy PDA instead. — Wind 15:20, 12 July 2015 (PDT)

I even made it so the Engineer only has to walk forward, making the clips perfectly synced :D http://youtu.be/RHbTdopb2S0 - Uufje 13:07, 18 July 2015 (PDT)

Clips 0:50 and 1:45 could be combined (add one clip with regular wrench speed boosting) to save on time. Yeah, should have noticed earlier :( — Wind 18:10, 26 July 2015 (PDT)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oH_nQGqz5yU - Uufje 12:58, 13 August 2015 (PDT)

Clip at 0:50 doesn't have matching steam usernames :) But it's OK if you don't want to fix it. Please upload~ — Wind 15:56, 16 August 2015 (PDT)

Whoops, I thought I did that right. Uploading. - Uufje 08:02, 19 August 2015 (PDT)

Eviction Notice

 Now has 3 second speed boost on hit

 This demonstration has been reserved: Obilisk 07:39, 25 July 2015 (PDT)

How's this? Obilisk 20:19, 25 July 2015 (PDT)

Show the effect of the speed boost against no-boost heavy? Same as Big Earner and whatnot. — Wind 18:10, 26 July 2015 (PDT)

How's this? I thought that it may be a tiny bit confusing as the speed boost is "on hit" rather than "on kill" However I had to kill the engineer to compare. As a test I also made another clip, though in my opinion it's a bit confusing to keep up with the 'laps' the splitscreens make. I'm sure the first clip would be fine, but I'm just giving you a selection anyway ;D. Obilisk 05:09, 29 July 2015 (PDT)

The engineer clip is a good way to do this. Please upload as-is and thanks for giving more options — Wind 16:50, 2 August 2015 (PDT)

Obilisk has gave me the download link Karmacharger 4:19 PM 8/5/2015 (PDT)

Family Business

 Now has +15% increased attack speed

 This demonstration has been reserved: Akuago220, The Jungle Expeditioner (talk) 06:47, 3 July 2015 (PDT)

This should hopefully do it for such a simple change. --Akuago220, The Jungle Expeditioner (talk) 10:49, 10 July 2015 (PDT)

Is good, please upload~ — Wind 15:20, 12 July 2015 (PDT)

Fan O'War

 Now crits whenever it would normally mini-crit

 Reduced damage penalty from -90% to -75%

 This demonstration has been reserved: Obilisk 22:06, 7 August 2015 (PDT)

How's this? Luckily my internet has sorted itself out, so I can access the wiki again. I added the clip with the Jarate as I thought it was necessary to show, though it can easily be fixed or removed if you wish. Obilisk 01:29, 8 August 2015 (PDT)

Should also show if the status expires after a while vs something like the GRU — Wind 15:56, 16 August 2015 (PDT)

Fishcake

 Now has 10 second cool down on use

 Can now overheal up to 400hp

 Can be thrown (alt-fire) as a small medkit for other players to use

 Updated description to note that this item can be thrown (alt-fire) to supply players with a medkit

Force-A-Nature

 Updated description to better detail the weapon's features.

Flare Gun

 Added text to describe 100% critical hits on burning targets

 This demonstration has been reserved: Obilisk 02:36, 3 July 2015 (PDT)

How's this? Obilisk 04:12, 6 July 2015 (PDT)

Is good, please upload~ — Wind 15:20, 12 July 2015 (PDT)

Download Obilisk 22:23, 12 July 2015 (PDT)

Golden Wrench

 Increased base wrench construction speed on hit boost by 50%. Buildings now build 2.5x faster instead of just 2x (additive of 1.5x + base speed)

 Teleporters and Dispensers redeploy +50% faster (2.5x without wrench boost, 5.5x with wrench boost)

 Building pick up speed penalty reduced from 25% to 10%

 Building repair costs increased from 20 metal to 33 metal to repair 100hp per wrench hit (from 5HP per metal to 3HP per metal)

The only way i can get the Golden Wrench, Golden Pan and Saxxy is to use a plugin called [TF2Items Giveweapon] for Sourcemod and install it in a Dedicated server. With that plugin you can give yourself any weapon. So the problem is, any recorded demos in a Dedicated server with plugins installed the movement will not be smooth, exactly what happened to my Mini-Sentry video, and the clips where the movement are not smoother was recorded in my Dedicated server. Well i don't know what causes the problem and i can't figure it out. I recorded a video of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiWA7MdoRLk That would be really nice if Valve can actually borrow these just for recording demonstrations :> Karmacharger 1:09 AM 8/14/2015 (PDT)

The demo doesn't look that bad to me. Another way you could do this is by playing on a custom server with that mode and with host_timescale 0.1. Record both the demo and fraps at the same time. Then speed up the video 10x with frameblending and you'll get something that's a bit like SrcDemo2 would give you (it's equivalent to 10 fpf and 360 shutter angle). Then you can play the demo at demo_timescale 1.0 to get the audio out of it. Merge it into one video, add the backpack view, then add in the pre-echo'd versions of the Golden Wrench sound lines. It's not easy but can be done. This demonstration is a one-of-a-kind and it's hard to make, yes. — Wind 15:56, 16 August 2015 (PDT)

Golden Frying Pan

 Increased base wrench construction speed on hit boost by 50%. Buildings now build 2.5x faster instead of just 2x (additive of 1.5x + base speed)

 Teleporters and Dispensers redeploy +50% faster (2.5x without wrench boost, 5.5x with wrench boost)

 Building pick up speed penalty reduced from 25% to 10%

 Building repair costs increased from 20 metal to 33 metal to repair 100hp per wrench hit (from 5HP per metal to 3HP per metal)

Yes, for the Engineer it functions as a Wrench, and all the Wrench things are demonstrated in this video. - Uufje 01:40, 3 July 2015 (PDT)

Gunslinger

 Increased base wrench construction speed on hit boost by 50%. Buildings now build 2.5x faster instead of just 2x (additive of 1.5x + base speed)

 Teleporters and Dispensers redeploy +50% faster (2.5x without wrench boost, 5.5x with wrench boost)

 Building pick up speed penalty reduced from 25% to 10%

 Building repair costs increased from 20 metal to 33 metal to repair 100hp per wrench hit (from 5HP per metal to 3HP per metal)

 Mini Sentries can now be repaired and wrench construction boosted

 Mini Sentry base build speed decreased. Mini Sentries that are wrench boosted build slightly faster than previously.

 Mini Sentries start at 50% health on construction and gain health during construction instead of starting at 100%

Invis Watch

 While invisible, Spy receives 20% less damage from all damage sources

 While invisible, Spy has reduced timer on debuffs (fire, jarate, milk, bleed)

Iron Bomber

 Removed damage penalty on self-detonate

 Reduced radius penalty from -20% to -15%

Jag

 With the change to Base Construction boost, Jag bonus has improved.

 Added +15% swing speed.

 Added 20% repair penalty. Repairs will give up to 80hp per swing instead 100hp per swing.

 Teleporters and Dispensers redeploy +50% faster (2.5x without wrench boost, 5.5x with wrench boost)

 Building pick up speed penalty reduced from 25% to 10%

 Building repair costs increased from 20 metal to 33 metal to repair 100hp per wrench hit (from 5HP per metal to 3HP per metal)

 This demonstration has been reserved: Akuago220, The Jungle Expeditioner (talk) 06:47, 3 July 2015 (PDT)

L'Etranger

 Spy no longer smacks himself in the face while reloading a revolver

Oddly enough, the Dead Ringer's cloak duration is barely longer with the L'Etranger equipped. I guess it's just a really buggy Spy watch. https://youtu.be/BbDrf6Z8HKE - Uufje 07:22, 19 July 2015 (PDT)

What else is new. Is good, please upload~ — Wind 18:10, 26 July 2015 (PDT)

https://docs.google.com/uc?id=0B4-2Xsrp3Z86RzlqT1dCMDhVcXc&export=download - Uufje 06:54, 28 July 2015 (PDT)

Liberty Launcher

 This demonstration has been reserved: - Uufje 06:54, 28 July 2015 (PDT)

 Now has +25% clip size

Well this is a pretty shitty weapon. https://youtu.be/vDgxtP8mfTU - Uufje 10:46, 29 July 2015 (PDT)

Is good, please upload~ — Wind 16:50, 2 August 2015 (PDT)

Loch-n-Load

 Changed +20% damage bonus to +20% damage against buildings

The weapon now has 3 grenades per clip and no-longer deals 25% more self-damage than the normal grenade launcher, but it now has a 25% smaller blast radius than the grenade launcher. This weapon's demonstration must be redone to reflect on these stat changes.

Don't worry, I can assure you that the demonstration has already been redone with the new stats. We just need to wait until the Wiki channel uploads it, as well as a few other demonstrations. Also, don't forget to sign your posts by typing "~~~~" Obilisk 04:48, 27 May 2015 (PDT)

Putting this one out without a reservation to keep things going. https://youtu.be/hn0jJsIwYe0 - Uufje 09:38, 25 July 2015 (PDT)

Ha, updated twice before the reupload happened... Is good, please upload~ — Wind 18:10, 26 July 2015 (PDT)

https://docs.google.com/uc?id=0B4-2Xsrp3Z86aWc4X01yTHhsa1k&export=download - Uufje 06:54, 28 July 2015 (PDT)

Mad Milk

 Updated description. (Also handy for putting out a fire)

Minigun

 Viewmodel has been updated.

 This demonstration has been reserved: Luigifan656 (talk) 15:43, 29 July 2015 (PDT)

Is this here good? https://youtu.be/GUFxZuTWU1o Luigifan656 (talk) 06:31, 30 July 2015 (PDT)

I personally noticed a few things:

• Quality I think could use some improvement, try increasing your bitrate or quantizer settings when rendering the final video.
• A minor thing, but usually the mouse pointer is already pointing at the backpack icon when the video starts.
• The splitscreen scene looks weird, doesn't look like you centered and cropped the clips well enough. I'm assuming you meant to make a three-way splitscreen, try fiddling around until you can make three equally wide clips next to each other.
• The music ends too soon, the "clack" ending sound should be at the very end.

This is not an official review, but it should give you something to work with before Wind returns. Good luck - Uufje 07:52, 30 July 2015 (PDT)

I am nearly done now, but I can't seem to find a training video mp3 that is as long as my demonstration. Luigifan656 (talk) 10:10, 30 July 2015 (PDT)

You can find extended music here: http://www.mediafire.com/download/y0gjm9yekjj6zzx/Demonstration+Music+v2.rar - Uufje 13:35, 30 July 2015 (PDT)

Is this here better? https://youtu.be/94Jt9uwb1uU Luigifan656 (talk) 14:27, 30 July 2015 (PDT)

Hi Luigifan656, first clip looks good to me, though the second clip needs some work.

• Generally speaking, the hud needs to be present in all 3 splitscreens, two of yours appear to be cropped. However, with this specific splitscreen you don't even need the hud present at all, as the splitscreens are comparing the speed rather than the health or ammo.
• Please give more time for the transition.
• Start the splitscreen from a stationary potision, rather than having the heavies already running. (Basically try get the clip to be as identical as the original demonstration )
• During the splitscreen there is no sound. I'd suggest having the shooting clip's sound play as well as the far left sound's play.
• You should swap the splitscreen order, having the shooting clip on the far right and the spinning clip in the middle.
• Don't end the splitscreen clip so suddenly, give some time then unspin the miniguns. (Again, try mimic the original demonstration.)
• Also, are you running a german version of the game? When you shoot the enemies they appear to spark. Not sure if this is an issue or not, but worth noting.

Overall, good attempt at your demonstration dude, the first clip looks spot on to me, though the splitscreens do need some work. I know it seems like a mouthful, splitscreens can be a pain, but most of them are a easy fix. - This is only my opinion, so it'd be worth waiting for Wind's response. Obilisk 19:54, 30 July 2015 (PDT)

Yeah, the splitscreens don't seem to be centered. The middle clip is good, since the minigun is exactly in the middle, but the other two are still off. Try to fiddle around and make the right and left clips look like the middle one. - Uufje 00:37, 31 July 2015 (PDT)

This is better I think: https://youtu.be/qDKNgbImsZ4 oh, and I am playing on the german version of the game. I hope that isn't bad. Luigifan656 (talk) 07:37, 31 July 2015 (PDT)

Hmmm what is it? http://prntscr.com/7z90rp RADIST | T | C 07:43, 31 July 2015 (PDT)

Oh, I think Sony Vegas corrupted the file. Weird that I didn't see it when I edited it.

This? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zF0H-HOHHQ&feature=youtu.be Luigifan656 (talk) 13:33, 31 July 2015 (PDT)

Still a few things you need to fix up Luigifan656,

• The splitscreen position and sizes are still a bit off. To get 3 splitscreens even, have the far left track motion as "-640", the middle clip as "0" and the far right as "640" You then want to crop each clip to the size of "640" Doing so will have all three perfectly even.
• The right clip is out of sync. It should sync perfectly with the middle clip. (Starting of the walk and ending of the walk should be perfeclty synced for the two.)
• The far left clip appears to lag/jolt at 0:48.
• There are bullet holes present in your clips all over the walls. To clear them simply type "r_cleardecals" in the console.
• You should allow the miniguns to fully spin down before ending the demonstration. Also, the fade to black for each clip should be synced.
• Also, I don't think the transitions between the clips should fade completely to black, to make them easily merge simply just place one clip over the other with a 0:15 transition. It should look like this. Obilisk 00:54, 1 August 2015 (PDT)

Feel free to wait for Wind's responce, I'm not sure what his opinion is about the minigun spin ups, as he may want them to be walking then spin and walk (Like the original minigun demonstrations are currently) Again though, it's very close to looking nice. Keep it up! Obilisk 00:54, 1 August 2015 (PDT)

Oh hi. Thanks for iterating pretty quickly on this demonstration. Here's my opinion:

• All of what Obilisk said applies (including spin and walk)
• For Minigun-like weapon demonstrations, it's customary to move a little bit forward in the spawning wooden box so that you are right up against the front wooden barrier during the first clip. This way, in this position, the minigun firing effect won't clip against the top wooden barrier. Do so before starting to record (don't move while recording).
• There is some lag (or perhaps just a jittery mouse) around 0:20-0:23

— Wind 16:50, 2 August 2015 (PDT)

Sorry that it took so long, but I hope this is better now: https://youtu.be/OyQibzGLowA Luigifan656 (talk) 15:43, 9 August 2015 (PDT)

Hey Luigifan656,

Another good attempt at the demonstration, but there's still a few things:

• In my opinion you spend just a little too long shooting the pyro. After the 4th or so 'burst' you can increase the fire rate a bit to finish him off, however this may be alright as it is.
• Your splitscreen doesn't appear to be even nor centered, each of the clips should have the crosshair in the middle.
• Your far left splitscreen appears to have a black crosshair, try keep all the colours consistant throughout the demonstration.
• The miniguns need to spin up completely in sync.
• Again, try have the heavy's start in a stationary position, then move all at once and then spin up the miniguns. (Just like the original Minigun demonstration.)

Overall, again VERY close Luigi, just a few things. Since you said you're using Sony Vegas I made you a quick video on how to get the clips perfectly placed for a 3 way splitscreen. Note this is on Sony Vegas 12.0 Watch here. Ignore the glitches at the end, it's just Sony Vegas not liking to preview it properly. Wind hopefully will be checking the talk page within the next few days, so you should be able to get his opinion soon as well. Hang tight. Obilisk 05:35, 10 August 2015 (PDT)

I don't have anything to add to what Obilisk said except that no need to worry about #1 (shooting the pyro too long). Nice Vegas tutorial :3 — Wind 15:56, 16 August 2015 (PDT)

Natascha

 Added 20% damage resistance while spun up

 Stun amount now has distance falloff. Decreases starting at 512hu down to zero stun at 1536Hu

Necro Smasher

 Increased base wrench construction speed on hit boost by 50%. Buildings now build 2.5x faster instead of just 2x (additive of 1.5x + base speed)

 Teleporters and Dispensers redeploy +50% faster (2.5x without wrench boost, 5.5x with wrench boost)

 Building pick up speed penalty reduced from 25% to 10%

 Building repair costs increased from 20 metal to 33 metal to repair 100hp per wrench hit (from 5HP per metal to 3HP per metal)

Yes, for the Engineer it functions as a Wrench, and all the Wrench things are demonstrated in this video. - Uufje 01:40, 3 July 2015 (PDT)

Panic Attack

 Base Fire rate increased (from 15% to 30%)

 Base reload speed increased (from 33% to 50%)

 Added increased switch to speed by +50%

 This demonstration has been reserved: Obilisk 01:55, 1 August 2015 (PDT)

Hey, Obilisk can't access the wiki, so I'm posting this here for him. Quote from Obilisk: " How's this? Overall I think everything's covered except for the faster weapon switch to the Panic Attack. How would you suggest showing it? I would have done the usual 'shoot primary, shoot secondary, swing melee' like the degreaser, but it's a bit more tricky than that, as the Panic Attack has to be reloaded first in order to shoot. Would I perhaps have the shotgun in the splitscreen also unloaded then compare? Or something completley different? As usual, your call." Karmacharger 9:08 PM 8/6/2015 (PDT)

The usual "shoot primary, shoot secondary, swing melee" with splitscreen against vanilla loadout. The weapon has to be pre-loaded and that's part of the deal you get by having this weapon, so the vanilla shotgun should be fully loaded when comparing. Might also want to show it with 200/100/1 HP to see if that tilts the balance from one side to the other — Wind 15:56, 16 August 2015 (PDT)

I made a test clip(s) how's this? Not sure if it's noticeable but switching after shooting the rocket is hard to predict, as you can almost switch instantly (cutting off the audio for the rocket) or wait for the entire sound to happen then switch, not sure if it matters too much, but I think It to sync rather well. Do you think the three way splitscreen works? I was thinking that I should at least change the weapon to idle the end clip with the rocket launcher, as the shovel's not visible on the 3 way splitscreen, or I could change to the shotgun and reload if necessary. Also, do you think what I have recorded here shows that it only has a faster switch speed to the panic attack? Or should I try a different method to show it? And last but not least, ignore the steam messages I receive while recording, this is all just a fraps preview so nothing has been edited properly. Obilisk 04:40, 20 August 2015 (PDT)

Pomson 6000

 Über and Cloak drain decreases over distance from target.

Power Up Canteen

 Doesn't show Canteen Specialist upgrades like Battery Canteens demo does Toomai Glittershine 10:04, 26 June 2014 (PDT)

Pretty Boy's Pocket Pistol

 Passive effects on the Pretty Boy's Pocket Pistol are only in effect when the weapon is deployed

 Removed +15 max health passive

 Added up to +3 health per hit

 Changed damage vulnerability from +50% fire to +20% all sources while active

 This demonstration has been reserved: Marguy 8:55 PM, 6 July 2015 (EST)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kM6VqfNADDM Marguy (talk) 15:46, 18 July 2015 (PDT)

Hi Marguy, just a few things I saw you may want to fix.

• In the first clip at 0:33 you shoot a crit bullet. Though it looks like you exec'd weaponref try do it again. It should fix the problem.
• After you taunt in the first clip you pull out your primary at the end. This is a small bug which is rather annoying. To fix it, before your record the clip, taunt with your secondary, it will switch to your primary, however next time you taunt with your secondary it wont. (So basically taunt with your secondary before recording and the problem will be fixed.)
• On one of your splitscreens, at 1:55; shouldn't the pistol and the scattergun receive the same damage from the Engineer? May be worth recording again to make sure.
• Though not crucial, I think usually we have the splitscreens in a different order, perhaps Pistol on the left, then scattergun, then Pretty boy's pocket pistol. Though you'd have to wait to see what Wind says about that.

Overall Marguy I really liked the demonstration. You used a good mix of splitscreens and clips. However this is just my review of your demonstration, you'd want to wait for Wind before redoing anything. :) Obilisk 18:37, 18 July 2015 (PDT)

Made some edits and re-shot some of the scenes. The splitscreen order remained the same, however, because that's the order that it was in the original video. I'll happily re-bake this if it needs to be changed, though. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGH14LxPjg4 Marguy (talk) 11:58, 21 July 2015 (PDT)

I think the order is fine as well, I always use stock/demonstrated weapon/switch from demo'd weapon to different weapon (from left to right). In the left and right Engineer clips, I also see blood splatters on one of the pillars, you can type r_cleardecals in the console to remove them. - Uufje 02:06, 22 July 2015 (PDT)

Could you give a timestamp? Marguy (talk) 18:54, 22 July 2015 (PDT)

1:38 - Uufje 03:12, 23 July 2015 (PDT)

The fall damage clips can be put together as a split-screen. Would be nice to get rid of the blood splatter too. Rest is good~ — Wind 18:10, 26 July 2015 (PDT)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1SxTNwx3qs Marguy (talk) 14:55, 30 July 2015 (PDT)

All good, please upload~ — Wind 16:50, 2 August 2015 (PDT)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/amyu26c5s9dsn0t/PrettyBoysPocketPistolV5.MP4?dl=0 Marguy (talk) 15:16, 14 August 2015 (PDT)

Quäckenbirdt

 This demonstration has been reserved: - Uufje 02:03, 3 July 2015 (PDT)

 While invisible, Spy receives 20% less damage from all damage sources

 While invisible, Spy has reduced timer on debuffs (fire, jarate, milk, bleed)

https://youtu.be/JxvsxT7oc9Y - Uufje 05:11, 14 July 2015 (PDT)

Is good, please upload~ — Wind 18:10, 26 July 2015 (PDT)

https://docs.google.com/uc?id=0B4-2Xsrp3Z86V1E3ZTlXdkFiVEE&export=download - Uufje 06:54, 28 July 2015 (PDT)

Quickiebomb Launcher

 Damage is now increased based on charge amount when the bomb is fired

Revolver

 Spy no longer smacks himself in the face while reloading a revolver

 This demonstration has been reserved: Obilisk 02:34, 3 July 2015 (PDT)

How's this? Obilisk 18:57, 3 July 2015 (PDT)

Is good, please upload~ — Wind 21:37, 4 July 2015 (PDT)

Download Obilisk 22:17, 4 July 2015 (PDT)

Robo-Sandvich

 Updated description to note that this item can be thrown (alt-fire) to supply players with a medkit

As far as I know since I still have the Robo-Sandvich, Valve didn't update the description to include the note about its attributes like Sandvich. No need to be redone (for now). Rikka Takanashi (talk) • (contributions) 16:33, 10 July 2015 (PDT)

Sandvich

 Updated description to note that this item can be thrown (alt-fire) to supply players with a medkit

Sapper

 Decreased the damage penalty on Sentries sapped by the Spy from -66% to -33%

Saxxy

 Increased base wrench construction speed on hit boost by 50%. Buildings now build 2.5x faster instead of just 2x (additive of 1.5x + base speed)

 Teleporters and Dispensers redeploy +50% faster (2.5x without wrench boost, 5.5x with wrench boost)

 Building pick up speed penalty reduced from 25% to 10%

 Building repair costs increased from 20 metal to 33 metal to repair 100hp per wrench hit (from 5HP per metal to 3HP per metal)

Yes, for the Engineer it functions as a Wrench, and all the Wrench things are demonstrated in this video. - Uufje 01:40, 3 July 2015 (PDT)

Scorch Shot

 Reduced damage penalty from -50% to -35%

 Now has increased knock back on burning targets

 Increased the blast radius from flares from 92Hu to 110Hu

 Hits and explosions always minicrit burning targets

Sentry Gun

 Increased base wrench construction speed on hit boost by 50%. Buildings now build 2.5x faster instead of just 2x (additive of 1.5x + base speed)

 Teleporters and Dispensers redeploy +50% faster (2.5x without wrench boost, 5.5x with wrench boost)

 Building repair costs increased from 20 metal to 33 metal to repair 100hp per wrench hit (from 5HP per metal to 3HP per metal)

 This demonstration has been reserved: Karmacharger 3:07 PM 7/27/2015 (PDT)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOuwYJKoiIY At 3:49 for some reason my sentry can hit that spy if he taunts Karmacharger 5:06 PM 8/17/2015 (PDT)

Soda Popper

 Updated description to better detail the weapon's features.

Short Circuit

 Projectile destruction has been moved to alt-fire at the cost of -15 per shot. There is a 0.5s cool down between attempts and refire

 Cannot pick up buildings when the Short Circuit is deployed

Shortstop

 This demonstration has been reserved: - Uufje 02:03, 3 July 2015 (PDT)

 No longer uses secondary ammo and now uses primary ammo instead

 Healing and knockback passives are only active when weapon is deployed

https://youtu.be/2OVHXrA0nPg - Uufje 06:20, 16 July 2015 (PDT)

Bad music mixing at 1:00. Also, might as well have a 3-way clip for the medic healing, same as the other clips. — Wind 18:10, 26 July 2015 (PDT)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0vUtfLKMb0 - Uufje 12:58, 13 August 2015 (PDT)

Is good, please upload~ — Wind 15:56, 16 August 2015 (PDT)

Solemn Vow

 This demonstration has been reserved: - Uufje 02:03, 3 July 2015 (PDT)

 Added 10% attack speed penalty

http://youtu.be/Ssr2Ny0q6Dg - Uufje 10:57, 16 July 2015 (PDT)

Is good, please upload~ — Wind 18:10, 26 July 2015 (PDT)

https://docs.google.com/uc?id=0B4-2Xsrp3Z86cDJWcVpSNDY0N3M&export=download - Uufje 06:54, 28 July 2015 (PDT)

Southern Hospitality

 Increased base wrench construction speed on hit boost by 50%. Buildings now build 2.5x faster instead of just 2x (additive of 1.5x + base speed)

 Teleporters and Dispensers redeploy +50% faster (2.5x without wrench boost, 5.5x with wrench boost)

 Building pick up speed penalty reduced from 25% to 10%

 Building repair costs increased from 20 metal to 33 metal to repair 100hp per wrench hit (from 5HP per metal to 3HP per metal)

Spy-cicle

 Changed fire immunity for 3 seconds to fire immunity for 1 second and 7 seconds of afterburn immunity

 Removed silent killer attribute

 Spy-cicle recharge timer can now be reduced by picking up ammo boxes

Sydney Sleeper

 This demonstration has been reserved: - Uufje 06:54, 28 July 2015 (PDT)

 Jarate now applies on all scoped shots, duration scales with charge duration (2 to 8 seconds)

http://youtu.be/pkF9xJ74sAg - Uufje 14:16, 10 August 2015 (PDT)

Is good, please upload~ — Wind 15:56, 16 August 2015 (PDT)

Teleporter

 Increased base wrench construction speed on hit boost by 50%. Buildings now build 2.5x faster instead of just 2x (additive of 1.5x + base speed)

 This demonstration has been reserved: Karmacharger 3:02 PM 7/27/2015 (PDT)

Tide Turner

 Self damage will no longer decrease charge when charging

 Fall damage will no longer decrease charge when charging

 Amount of charge taken away on damage when charging reduced from 3 to 1 per point of damage

Tomislav

 Now 20% more accurate (less spread)

 Increased spin up bonus from 10% to 20%

Ullapool Caber

 Reduced explosion base damage from 100 to 75

 Reduced damage ramp up bonus for close range attacks. Now is the same as other explosive weapons.

Vaccinator

 Resistance and Über mechanism changed, see patch notes.

Warrior's Spirit

 Now has +10 health on hit

 This demonstration has been reserved: Obilisk 19:16, 6 July 2015 (PDT)

How's this? I tried mixing in the +10 health on hit in the first clip, though the first clip ends with the heavy not on full health. Not sure if that's essential or anything, but you tell me otherwise. Obilisk 01:46, 7 July 2015 (PDT)

Is good as-is, please upload~ — Wind 15:20, 12 July 2015 (PDT)

Download Obilisk 22:22, 12 July 2015 (PDT)

Wrangler

 Ammo and Repair given to a shielded Sentry is reduced by the strength of the shield (66% reduced) when shield is active

Wrench

 Increased base wrench construction speed on hit boost by 50%. Buildings now build 2.5x faster instead of just 2x (additive of 1.5x + base speed)

 Teleporters and Dispensers redeploy +50% faster (2.5x without wrench boost, 5.5x with wrench boost)

 Building pick up speed penalty reduced from 25% to 10%

 Building repair costs increased from 20 metal to 33 metal to repair 100hp per wrench hit (from 5HP per metal to 3HP per metal)

Questions and Proposals

Note: This section is for questions and proposals that aren't specific to a single weapon. If you think a demo ought to be remade, then make an entry for it in the Need to be Redone section above and it will be dealt with.

The Gun Mettle rebalancing

You guys better clear out your schedules, because Valve has a big order coming up. My guestimate is that about a fifth of all videos need to be redone.--Henke37 (talk) 04:46, 2 July 2015 (PDT)

Yeah, when I saw the list of update notes tears of either joy or sadness came down my cheeks... Not sure which though, haha. Obilisk 06:31, 2 July 2015 (PDT)

Well, looks like it's time to dust off Fraps and get back into the swing of things here. --Akuago220, The Jungle Expeditioner (talk) 06:42, 2 July 2015 (PDT)

Did anyone miss me? I'm ready to help too. - Uufje 08:12, 2 July 2015 (PDT)

Well, i think that we are ready for this update.PETPO (talk) 08:21, 2 July 2015 (PDT)

Let's do this. Karmacharger 1:30 AM 7/3/2015 (PDT)

Phew.wav. I've put everything in here that was changed. It's probably not perfect, please correct or add anything if needed. - Uufje 01:40, 3 July 2015 (PDT)

Good luck to all. Might want to wait a week or so before doing the updated weapons in case they tweak the balance changes a bit? Or feel free to redo them right away if you're feeling adventurous and don't mind having to redo things. — Wind 21:37, 4 July 2015 (PDT)

Pending videos

On the project page I see a list of videos that are done and good to go, but haven't been uploaded yet. Apparently we're waiting for thumbnails? It's been five months since anything was uploaded to the channel. Isn't there a way to get those thumbnails? - Uufje 02:03, 3 July 2015 (PDT)

Yeah, it's getting badly needed at this point. RagnarHomsar used to do all of them, and got (understandably) tired of doing so. He did write a guide on how to make those thumbnails though. If anyone has Windows + a bunch of free time + HLMV setup + Photoshop, please try following that guide and see if it's doable — Wind 21:37, 4 July 2015 (PDT)

Apparently you need a resolution of 2560x1440... goodness. I'll fiddle around with it and see if I can make it work, but I can't promise anything. - Uufje 02:33, 5 July 2015 (PDT)

Alright, I've got it to work! I'll start working on cranking out some thumbnails. - Uufje 06:18, 8 July 2015 (PDT)

Thanks a lot for doing these. There's a huge backlog to go through :( — Wind 15:20, 12 July 2015 (PDT)

Still very busy (got a flight to catch in 3 hours and I'm just sitting here reviewing weapon demonstration videos (now there's a sentence that will get me on various 3-lettered agencies' watchlist)), will try to release some videos next weekend. — Wind 18:10, 26 July 2015 (PDT)

I'll try to get all the thumbnails for the old videos done by then. - Uufje 06:54, 28 July 2015 (PDT)

Might do it tonight or sometime this week hopefully. — Wind 16:50, 2 August 2015 (PDT)

Published \o/ — Wind 15:56, 16 August 2015 (PDT)

The jack

The new gamemode has a weaponlike item that you pickup and throw. I think it would be ideal for a demonstration video.--Henke37 (talk) 07:27, 20 August 2015 (PDT)

Strangifier

I forgot to mention, I made a Strangifier Demonstration quite a while ago and completley forgot about it. Think it's worth having anywhere? Otherwise I may trash it. Obilisk 04:56, 27 August 2015 (PDT)