Team Fortress Wiki talk:Weapon Demonstration

Weapons that need to be done

Horseless Headless Horsemann's Head

Same effect as Saxton Hale Mask. Hinaomi 02:25, 28 May 2012 (PDT)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-e43Yt1HEac http://www.mediafire.com/?gushsnu3s34oded Karmacharger 04.07 , 29 May 2012 (PST)

Watch this , new one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEsgbhuSMvc http://www.mediafire.com/?9ud76nughq6tzbq Karmacharger 11.58 , 30 May 2012 (PST)

Is good, thanks~ — Wind 16:34, 30 May 2012 (PDT)

Saxton Hale Mask

Preparations

• Enter the map as usual.
• Enter console and write sv_cheats 1 (This enables changing the holiday)
• Afterwards enter tf_forcce_holiday 2 (This enables spawning "hatman")
• Afterwards enter end_create headless_hatman (This will spawn the boss, so make sure to aim correctly. he will not move because this is not a bot-enabled map.. therefore all bots stay in place but he still can attack when you are close to it)

In The Video

• The video will go as usual, I suggest you to wait a few minutes before recording as I tested in-game he will usually scare at the first time you come at it if he waited long enough.
• Showing the item in the backpack. (If you can remove the "Crafted By.." that will be perfect)
• A 3rd person view of the hat. (All class are required)
• Split screen with wearing the mask and not wearing the mask. Showing how it effects by not getting scared.

Questions

• Do you think we should show how you still get scared from the Harvest ghost?

 Yes It's important to know that it only effects the Headless. Atlas  Yes Yes — Wind 18:34, 23 April 2012 (PDT)

• Do you think the split-screen will be with every class?

 No It's better if you will, but this is some serious dark work which is not required. Atlas  Nope Nah — Wind 18:34, 23 April 2012 (PDT)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEP2EMxTirg not sure if all clip are good but take a look. Karmacharger 10.07 , 23 May 2012 (PST)

Don't run in front of the Horseless Headless Horsemann, just go to it close enough to trigger the taunt, maybe take a step back if you would get killed otherwise, and then stay still, on both screens. This makes it clearer that it's the effect of the mask, and not the effect of running. Would be cool if it was synchronized too, but I know that is probably not easy for this clip, so it's ok if it's not synchronized. If they are not synchronized, however, then they should be separated by a few seconds (which is the case here, that is good) so that the player can identify correctly that two boo's happened, and which happened when and where.

For the ghost clip, maybe you should consider cl_drawhud 0 to get rid of the clutter, or if you wanna go the extra mile you could make a HUD modification to hide only the KOTH elements. But it's okay if they're not hidden too, it's not so bad, just something to improve if you want to improve it. Video is good, otherwise~ — Wind 18:29, 23 May 2012 (PDT)

i guess batter then old one , but im not really sure this is what you want me to fix or improve it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5xnWwL5A9M Karmacharger 02:34 , 25 May 2012 (PST)

Ghost clip is better, but the Horseless Headless Horsemann is not looking at you ._.

Start the clip the same way as the previous video, with the Horseless Headless Horsemann looking in your direction. Run towards the Horseless Headless Horsemann, and then stop running when you are close enough. Wait until he says "boo". Wait for the effect to go away, and then end the clip. Is all~ — Wind 17:52, 24 May 2012 (PDT)

 Question Wasn't the Horseless Headless Horsemann's Head supposed to be rolled into this video too, since it has the same effect? --Org 16:51, 24 May 2012 (PDT)

 Nope.avi, It needs to do in another video, not in the single video. Hinaomi 17:01, 24 May 2012 (PDT)

um... when he said "boo" if i don't move i will get killed but if close enough he won't kill me and he didn't said boo at all i waited 5 minutes still noting happen , if close to him he will said boo but he will kill me if i wont run http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q12u31W0qno Karmacharger 12.57 , 25 May 2012 (PST)

That video is all good. Thanks, please upload :3 — Wind 10:15, 27 May 2012 (PDT)

 Comment After watched, I have some suggestions. First, why don't you show only Scout's view in loadout like Bombinomicon demonstration? It's really too long. And why do you set the 3rd person camera like Bombinomicon demonstration? Hinaomi 03:34, 25 May 2012 (PDT)

Because i have my own style. i don't like to do something same as other person's stuffs. Karmacharger 06.39 , 25 May 2012 (PST)

Thanks for accept my video http://www.mediafire.com/?oqa6m9fc0k5emky , and 1 question the Horseless Headless Horsemann's Head Need to be Demonstration too in the needed list , also i tested on game it's has the same effect as the saxton hale mask , if i do the demo i will do the samething same as the saxton hale demo clips. :) Karmacharger 03.34 , 27 May 2012 (PST)

Yes, same thing, same clips, same structure, different hat. — Wind 15:49, 28 May 2012 (PDT)

Need to be redone

Backburner

Should the full angles be shown as seen in all Spy melee weapon demonstrations? -- ReadyAimFire 14:23, 9 June 2012 (PDT)

In the future, if you have an issue with the video for a particular weapon, just make this section. The proposals/questions section is for issues that affect the whole project. — Armisael (T | C) 16:16, 9 June 2012 (PDT)

Alright, my bad. I thought the proposal/question section was for proposing a revision and then said weapon would be moved when a majority agrees on the revision. No problem, thanks for clearing things up. -- ReadyAimFire 17:03, 9 June 2012 (PDT)

Perhaps, but it's not really easy to do that, as the victim tends to die too quickly to properly show it. The Spy videos show it because there's an animation that indicates when you're at the correct angle, but there isn't for the backburner, so it won't be obvious what is being demonstrated — Wind 18:20, 9 June 2012 (PDT)

Darwin's Danger Shield

I feel as if the current video is more of a demonstration of the Kukri rather than the Danger Shield itself. Perhaps a revision with the following:

• Show the model of the shield (as seen in the Ali Baba's Wee Booties and Bootlegger demonstration).
• A demonstration showing the HP difference when the Sniper has this equipped instead of the SMG.
• A demonstration showing the inability to protect the wearer from backstabs (maybe with a comparison to the Razorback?).

Just a little thought I had concerning the demonstration. — ReadyAimFire 15:43, 7 June 2012 (PDT)

Yeah, after watched. I notice about those too.

• In show model section. It should same as Bootlegger or Gunboat.
• In HP different section. I think we should do split-screen.
• In unprotect backstab section. Not compare with Razorback, just compare with normal SMG.

Hinaomi 16:16, 7 June 2012 (PDT)

Agreed on all except maybe the backstab protection thing... if it is to be demonstrated, then so should the Cozy Camper. The comparison should also be with the SMG, indeed — Wind 20:03, 7 June 2012 (PDT)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcqKYfGeLqY Karmacharger 08.26 , 8 June 2012 (PST)

http://youtu.be/fBw5HQlGObg — Armisael (T | C) 06:54, 8 June 2012 (PDT)

I don't want to tell you Karmacharger, but Armisael is better :( Hinaomi 07:21, 8 June 2012 (PDT)

Both videos have the same problems: during the split-screen, not waiting long enough for the player to notice the HP difference. Also, since the item is not visible, it should be written in a caption to indicate which screen is which, using the correct font and font size and color of course (see the level labels in Dispenser demo at 3:20 for reference) — Wind 19:31, 8 June 2012 (PDT)

http://youtu.be/J7KgRkVYNJc — Armisael (T | C) 20:26, 8 June 2012 (PDT)

http://youtu.be/y4B9kI3JLo4 A gap more in line with what you indicated in irc. — Armisael (T | C) 20:34, 8 June 2012 (PDT)

Is good, please upload~ — Wind 11:28, 9 June 2012 (PDT)

Enforcer

 New stats

http://youtu.be/d739OmlG_FI Thoughts on showing the disguise restriction? Not sure about this way. — Armisael (T | C) 21:21, 31 May 2012 (PDT)

Head slot is highlighted~ And I think that way is fine, but the moment where you do switch colors, you should wait at least 2 seconds for it to register, not 0.7 — Wind 23:06, 31 May 2012 (PDT)

In my opinion, I think you should do the normal demonstration first (without the disguise), taunt and all, then do a splitscreen comparison of damage done with and without disguise. The reason is mainly There isn't really a clear comparison of damage done with and without disguise here. Just like the Reserve Shooter video. Sure you can show that the gun does more damage only 3 seconds after activation without the splitscreen, because you have the numbers shown, but it's not as clear as it can be.

Just my two cents. TFHK 00:39, 1 June 2012 (PDT)

I agree, as it's not obvious what is happening unless you read the attributes beforehand — Wind 18:26, 1 June 2012 (PDT)

http://youtu.be/zEocs-ztuug — Armisael (T | C) 08:41, 1 June 2012 (PDT)

Still too fast D: You should wait at least 2 seconds, which is not what happens here. Same with the non-color-changed ones too, please leave them open for longer. The color-changed one is especially troubling because the color switch happens exactly when the spy finishes the draw animation, so it makes it hard to register an independent thing happening at the same time as independent

Just an idea, but shouldn't there be a split-screen with the Revolver to demonstrate the different firing rates? This is best done with a Heavy to demonstrate the damage-over-time effect of this item. - Selbi 09:46, 1 June 2012 (PDT)

No, otherwise this would involve redoing a lot of other demos too — Wind 18:26, 1 June 2012 (PDT)

http://youtu.be/-Lv6ncQswYU All these conversations at every possible indentation is really annoying. — Armisael (T | C) 21:23, 1 June 2012 (PDT)

Hey you did it :3 But...

• Head slot highlighted
• Missed a shot on the Medic
• The two clips have a different color balance
• You should shoot at least one more time to show if the effect persists

— Wind 21:36, 1 June 2012 (PDT)

http://youtu.be/mlYCYuMkpnI — Armisael (T | C) 06:42, 2 June 2012 (PDT)

Very good, please upload~ — Wind 10:51, 2 June 2012 (PDT)

Eyelander

The demonstration of the Eyelander's extended range is poorly demonstrated in the current video. -- ReadyAimFire 08:11, 12 June 2012 (PDT)

Frying Pan

 Done but need to redone (Weapon can now be used by the Scout, Pyro, Heavy, Medic, and Sniper) Already on it thanks to a friend of mine. --Akuago220, The Jungle Expeditioner 16:57, 3 May 2012 (PDT)

 Info If the one who is making it not sure what to do just watch the Stock weps : Bat, Fire Axe, Fists, Bonesaw, and Kukri and just add the current video of Soldier and Demoman. Good luck! — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Atlas (talk) • (contribs)

Not sure what you're trying to say here — Wind 19:33, 3 May 2012 (PDT)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpRnKZMC_2Y Karmacharger 02.32 , 4-5-2012 (PST)

I would suggest you slow down a bit, especially when there are some kill lines being said. This is just my suggestion, but let's see what Wind thinks. Also, no taunt for the Heavy? TFHK 01:32, 4 May 2012 (PDT)

it is no taunt for heavy Karmacharger 02.32 , 4-5-2012 (PST)

Desynchronized "bonk" on scout taunt and "burp" on Demoman taunt, and Pyro/Demoman do mumble their kill line at the same time as taunting (wait for the line to be finished before taunting) — Wind 20:30, 4 May 2012 (PDT)

True, there is none. In any case, here's my take on it. Download it here. --Akuago220, The Jungle Expeditioner 19:25, 4 May 2012 (PDT)

The "Head" item slot is lit in the Sniper loadout view, is the only thing to fix~

Also, wow did Valve make attach the weapon crappily. All classes are holding the pan from the very tip of it... and some horrible clipping on some viewmodels and some taunts... and the Demoman still drinks from it. If I were you I'd wait a week to see if they fix it, in order to avoid having to re-do it in the event that they do fix it — Wind 20:30, 4 May 2012 (PDT)

hey wind , you may take a look at this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntDM0A_-Vow i can't even fix. Karmacharger 12.52 , 5-5-2012 (PST)

Well in the event that Valve doesn't fix the frying pan placement on the classes, here's the revision. Download it here. --Akuago220, The Jungle Expeditioner 08:43, 6 May 2012 (PDT)

Is good, will publish next week if they don't change anything — Wind 21:13, 6 May 2012 (PDT)

So they didn't fix it, however

So probably better to wait another week — Wind 16:28, 10 May 2012 (PDT)

my problem will never be fixed :< Karmacharger 12.23 , 7 May 2012 (PST)

Sorry >: I had it once as well, actually, but it went away after an update at some point. I'm sorry I don't have any better fix, but I do know that it happens (or at least happened) — Wind 23:14, 6 May 2012 (PDT)

Patch has been released — Wind 17:26, 17 May 2012 (PDT)

The Taunt Voice problem is been fixed , so everythings is good http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtkmnezOpIg Karmacharger 08:15, 18-5-2012 (PDT)

Is all good, but if Akuago220 fixes his demonstration quickly then I would choose his demonstration because it is smoother. There's no problem with this one though, and I'm glad to see your glitch has been fixed :3 — Wind 17:28, 18 May 2012 (PDT)

And here I thought I'd get more time for my demonstration, but it doesn't seem that way (from my perspective, anyway). Regardless, here's my revision. Download it here. --Akuago220, The Jungle Expeditioner 16:33, 18 May 2012 (PDT)

There's a broken transition between the heavy and the medic clip (no fade away from the Heavy clip). That's the only flaw, if you can fix it quickly then this demonstration is slightly better because it has been rendered at a higher framerate — Wind 17:28, 18 May 2012 (PDT)

And there we have it. Download it here. --Akuago220, The Jungle Expeditioner 23:47, 18 May 2012 (PDT)

Thanks~ Sorry Karmacharger though, one of the two videos has to be discarded >: — Wind 10:19, 19 May 2012 (PDT)

it's k , i won't mind :) Karmacharger 01:36, 20-5-2012 (PDT)

Holiday Punch

Should the full angles be shown as seen in all Spy melee weapon demonstrations? -- ReadyAimFire 14:23, 9 June 2012 (PDT)

No, see above — Wind 18:20, 9 June 2012 (PDT)

Mad Milk

Should the demonstration feature how Dispensers and the Medi Gun help reduce the duration of the effects of Mad Milk? (as seen in 0:45-0:58 of the Jarate demonstration) -- ReadyAimFire 10:59, 9 June 2012 (PDT)

 Approve — Wind 11:28, 9 June 2012 (PDT)

I believe this may be redundant to show, but as in the Black Box demonstration, should it be shown that after a Mad Milk deflection, enemy players can heal off the victim? Then again, this would probably recall for a Jarate revision as well and essentially, is unnecessary... -- ReadyAimFire 14:17, 9 June 2012 (PDT)

Nah, I think that's a bit too obscure. — Wind 18:20, 9 June 2012 (PDT)

http://youtu.be/nYRjtD5VL90 — Armisael (T | C) 10:00, 10 June 2012 (PDT)

I think it would be more clearly demonstrated as a 3-way split-screen, with all 3 scouts launching Mad Milk at the same time :3 Because in this form, it's not immediately obvious what to look for; I think the first expectation would be "he is going to kill them in sequence" or something like that — Wind 10:40, 10 June 2012 (PDT)

The jarate demo uses the same format (in fact, the shot is almost identical), and I haven't noticed any confusion from that. — Armisael (T | C) 10:43, 10 June 2012 (PDT)

Fine >: — Wind 10:45, 10 June 2012 (PDT)

Market Gardener

It must be shown that a critical hit can occur while launched by the enemy's explosives, such as rockets, sticky bombs and grenades. --Hawk18727 12:38, 10 June 2012 (PDT)

I agree. Also perhaps show if it crits during the "up" phase of the rocket jump, not just the "down" phase — Wind 12:44, 10 June 2012 (PDT)

http://youtu.be/7cu2Ut-pIRM — Armisael (T | C) 15:28, 10 June 2012 (PDT)

Is good, please upload~ (And don't mix up sections) — Wind 18:26, 10 June 2012 (PDT)

Manmelter

 New muzzle flash

http://youtu.be/H6515KpE85c — Armisael (T | C) 07:19, 18 May 2012 (PDT)

Projectiles still "cannot" be reflected, huh. Please upload~ — Wind 17:28, 18 May 2012 (PDT)

http://youtu.be/vCArOg5I1Og Ballad pointed out that that video had the old kill icons. — Armisael (T | C) 21:45, 18 May 2012 (PDT)

Is good, please upload~ — Wind 10:19, 19 May 2012 (PDT)

Rocket Jumper

 New model, texture and attributes

http://youtu.be/SzyAerZZqjE — Armisael (T | C) 19:40, 31 May 2012 (PDT)

Try to do some longer jumps, I think you can go quit a bit further than that. Also, don't start in an odd position for the intel flag (standing on the desk is not a natural place to be for a soldier). Start on the floor, a reasonable distance from the Intelligence (not 3 steps) so that it's clearer what is going on — Wind 20:19, 31 May 2012 (PDT)

http://youtu.be/crZN7eYu7YE — Armisael (T | C) 08:41, 1 June 2012 (PDT)

Is good, please upload~ — Wind 18:26, 1 June 2012 (PDT)

Sticky Jumper

 New attribute (demonstrate that the intel cannot be carried)

http://youtu.be/Xs6Lkx5WHcs — Armisael (T | C) 18:36, 31 May 2012 (PDT)

See intel comment above — Wind 20:19, 31 May 2012 (PDT)

http://youtu.be/-E8Q4fGshZM — Armisael (T | C) 21:21, 31 May 2012 (PDT)

A little further maybe... Also may wanna show what happens if you switch weapons (I should have thought about that before) — Wind 23:06, 31 May 2012 (PDT)

http://youtu.be/NdXeOGpIEQ0 — Armisael (T | C) 08:41, 1 June 2012 (PDT)

Is also good, please also upload~ — Wind 18:26, 1 June 2012 (PDT)

Sets

The Expert's Ordnance

 Needs to be redone (flare gun behavior changed a year ago)

http://youtu.be/sg4vepBzWuY Yes, it is important that it be the manmelter. The flare gun is entirely unworkable, and the detonator would require irritating timing (or explosion tricks, I suppose). — Armisael (T | C) 18:45, 9 June 2012 (PDT)

Just add one more second of hovering to the first item and it'll be good~ (no need to reupload) — Wind 18:58, 9 June 2012 (PDT)

Questions and Proposals

Festive Weapons

Simple question, do you guys think they're required? Woodledoodledoodle 12:38, 21 December 2011 (PST)

I think the first person perspective picture is enough — Wind 12:40, 21 December 2011 (PST)

i Think That Would be awesome , When Demonstration Festive Weapons. Karmacharger 01:09 , 8 January 2012 (PST)

I think this demonstration is not necessary. Because these have same status as class stock weapons, only have festive light blub on it.Hinaomi 22:21, 7 January 2012 (PST)

Since it's just lights, maybe the viewmodel pictures could be animated?KingofKoopas 01:31, 26 February 2012 (PST)

I'm not sure what you mean — Wind 22:49, 26 February 2012 (PST)

I think he means show only world model (3rd person) and viewmodel (1st person). Hinaomi 23:03, 26 February 2012 (PST)

 Support I think they need to be demonstrated, they are the same as others re-skins. Saying we shouldn't do them because they have the same stats is like saying we shouldn't do the Wanga Prick because it's the same as the Eternal Reward. Atlas 02:50, 23 April 2012 (PDT)

I think if we do, the hardest part is festive bat. Hinaomi 13:19, 3 May 2012 (PDT)

Critical Hits/Mini-crits

Just a quick question: Why aren't the critical( and mini-crits) hits shown? It makes no sense. At least show them on a Medic( the proportionality of damage to distance will be clear by killing a Pyro and a Soldier ). Of course, mini-crits will be shown first, the Medic will be capable of surviving both crits and mini-crits for most weapons. If the weapon doesn't have them, just kill the medic in a usual way. --Hawk18727 06:17, 30 December 2011 (PST)

It's doesn't nessary and if we do, about 157 demonstrations those need to redone with this reason. Do you think it's easy to do? Hinaomi 08:03, 30 December 2011 (PST)

Of course, i don't ask to redo this, just want to know the reason for that. --Hawk18727 11:01, 30 December 2011 (PST)

See Archive 20 for this. In short: It should have been demonstrated, it wasn't. The decision was a mistake, but it's too late to correct it now without a huge effort investment which isn't worth it right now >: It's more important for Melee weapons, hence the possibility of reopening melee weapons for crits. But first, it's more important that all weapons at least have a demonstration video, rather than spending time going over all already-demonstrated weapons and add a minor detail to the videos. — Wind 14:47, 30 December 2011 (PST)

Thanks for the reply. --Hawk18727 06:24, 31 December 2011 (PST)

Damage Comparison

It would be enormously helpful to include a split-screen comparing a weapon with changed damage attributes (Back Scratcher, L'Etranger) to their vanilla counterparts (Fire Axe, Revolver). However I realize this will involve a major time investment. --Upgrade 20:24, 16 February 2012 (PST)

This has already been asked before >: Not everything needs to be a split-screen comparison, especially something that is easy to compare thanks to on-screen damage numbers in all videos. Given that, either a damage comparison would have to be in its own clip (which would be redundant because damage is already demonstrated in the main clip), or merged with the first clip itself and so have a whole split-screen first clip, which I think would look constrained and not give the weapon the screen space it deserves for its own demonstration. — Wind 13:21, 17 February 2012 (PST)

Ok, I went through the archives trying to find specific topics addressing this, but I've only found few scattered references. However, they all presuppose that the viewer would readily remember the vanilla loadout damage amount.(That or put both videos up in new windows and to a split-time comparison analysis.) Either way, this requires extra input from the viewer. Anyway, going through the archives hit upon another thread regarding weapons and their attributes as they changed over time. Should earlier versions of weapons and demonstrations be preserved as archival material?--Upgrade 14:05, 18 February 2012 (PST)

The history of weapon changes is already kept in the "Update history" section of all articles, adding weapon demonstrations there as well would probably make it too heavy over time (and not very helpful, since a lot of the content would be redundant with the current demonstration) — Wind 15:50, 18 February 2012 (PST)

I don't know, but it's the little museum curator inside of me that wants to preserve and look back on how the weapons have changed and developed into its current point in evolution; a visual history that is hard to piece together from the text-heavy update history and to say nothing of the various viewmodel changes.) I presume that all former videos are subsequently discarded. Upgrade 02:43, 28 February 2012 (PST)

Yes, all videos that are not publicly visible are deleted, so this would be kinda hard to retroactively apply — Wind 19:18, 28 February 2012 (PST)

Editing

i Would wish to know how to do motion blur in a similar way to Wind in Saxxy Demo and [ATG] Armisael in his recent videos — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tristan (talk) • (contribs)

You're probably looking for this — Wind 15:16, 27 February 2012 (PST)

i use a mac User:Tristan 10:45, 28 February 2012 (PST)

Then you'll have to use Source Recorder as usual or wait for a few days — Wind 19:18, 28 February 2012 (PST)

Does the Above hint at mac compatibility is imminent? Tristan 09:44, 29 February 2012 (PST)

Here you go — Wind 22:41, 29 February 2012 (PST)

Thank You! — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tristan (talk) • (contribs)

Sentry Gun and Wrangler

The current videos don't show that rockets suffer from damage falloff based on the Engineer's distance to the target.
I made video so you can understand what I'm talking about - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mp0RWH5BDRw
ANGEL_UNDEAD 12:06, 28 February 2012 (PST)

That's pretty interesting indeed. Not sure if it's a bug or intended behavior. — Wind 19:18, 28 February 2012 (PST)

It's based on default damage scaling. Rockets, Arrows, etc. scale via a range. Bullets have a more strict cutoff, which varies based on weapon. Sentries function like a minigun, low range for maximum falloff. Darkid (Talk | contribs) 16:35, 21 April 2012 (PDT)

Audio

I've been going through some of the demonstration videos and was wondering if audio would be a factor for a demonstration revision as I was watching The Expert's Ordnance demonstration and I believe the audio in said video was unsatisfactory as the game audio is much lower than the music audio.

I'm not sure if this is present in older videos but perhaps I'll call them out on this discussion page. -- ReadyAimFire 11:04, 9 June 2012 (PDT)

True, but not enough of a flaw to deserve a new demonstration (the framerate is also pretty bad btw) — Wind 11:28, 9 June 2012 (PDT)

Blech. That video really does have terrible audio and frame rates, and it's not like we've got a glut of new weapons right now. — Armisael (T | C) 13:36, 9 June 2012 (PDT)

So, can we settle on a revision of the set demonstration? -- ReadyAimFire 14:23, 9 June 2012 (PDT)

Flare gun behavior was changed since that video was posted, so the point is moot in that case. This still may be a matter worth deciding, however. — Armisael (T | C) 16:16, 9 June 2012 (PDT)