Team Fortress Wiki talk:Weapon Demonstration/Archive 1

The following discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

What if in the case one cannot set unlisted videos?

--Superslinger2007 06:19, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Create a new account. If you can't set unlisted videos, it's because your account is in bad copyright standing. Or just upload them somewhere else; the point is to have an easy way for the editors to review the video without downloading the large original file — Wind 06:20, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Done a Huntsman demonstration

I hope it's good enough. Here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUKf7OFnnl0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUKf7OFnnl0&fmt=22 here is a higher quality one. It's the same video, but with settings that will show it at higher quality.

Not bad but your aspect ratio is screwed up. As for the actual demo, i would make sure to show 1) no charge bodyshots 2) full charge bodyshot 3) no charge headshot and 4 ) full charge headshot. I dont feel your video effectively showed all 4 of those Natemckn 16:01, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

scatter gun video

Here is what I made for the scouts scatter gun demonstration I hope you add.I had a bit of trouble with the bots but it shows what the gun is like.--hj 00:17, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

[1]

I'm sorry but this does not follow the standard at all Natemckn 00:20, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, and there's already a Scattergun demo D: — Wind 00:24, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

I'm sorry I'm having a bad time getting the bots to work :( and I'm new so sorry. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by Round-the-clock (talk) • (contribs)

We appreciate the effort nonetheless :3 — Wind 01:12, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Tips on making videos not suck!

Figured it'd be better in here than a new page. I can record just fine, yeah. But the sound is atrocious (Very very loud), and I'm unsure how to combat this besides turning game volume down (Unless that's the ONLY way to beat it..) --Vaught 06:47, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

Executing the config file should set the "ding" sound low enough~ — Wind 00:09, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

If you meant the game's volume, you can simply do "volume 0.5" in console to turn it down to 50% volume. Or you can use your OS per-application volume control if using Windows 7 or Pulseaudio — Wind 07:25, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Okay! Now...how do I combine audio from both the game and the training_vid music of choice? I only seem to replace one or the other. :x (You can tell I'm a total expert at this) --Vaught 21:31, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Either use a video editor that's not VirtualDub or Windows Movie Maker, or do this in VirtualDub: Export audio, import that in Audacity, merge that with a traning music, export the resulting sound to a file, then in VirtualDub, pick Audio -> From other file... and pick the exported file. — Wind 21:55, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Shotgun Demonstration

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RSDmwDVU3Q --The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tank (talk) • (contribs) 00:24, 18 November 2010

Not bad not bad; things to do, however: Shoot at full speed after killing the Pyro, to give an idea of firing rate; shoot the target at the back to show spread; reload after shooting the target at the back; pick a longer training music so that it covers the whole video (they range from 36 seconds to a minute). Thanks~ — Wind 00:09, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Alright, thanks for the feedback, I'll record another demo. Also what do you mean by shooting the target at the back? Do you mean that I should run over to a bot's back and shoot him? Tank 00:51, 18 November 2010 (UTC)Tank

There is a wooden target of a soldier on the far side of the map (check one of the other videos if you cant find it). The last thing you want to do is shoot at it once or twice, reload, then taunt and explode. Natemckn 00:53, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Grenade Launcher, Sticky Bomb Launcher, and Bottle Demonstrations

http://blip.tv/file/4395689 http://blip.tv/file/4395543 http://blip.tv/file/4395725

Download all 3 here: http://www.mediafire.com/?56w6xqz3vqwja2a

Sticky fix here: http://www.mediafire.com/?y3br473jmliiwno

All in order, fixed the links. I had to re-render these videos in another file type for blip.tv to accept, but if you guys accept these, the download link will have better-quality visuals. Akuago220, The Jungle Expeditioner 00:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for those, but there's also a few things wrong with them:

• Grenade Launcher shows map for a second before the backpack is opened (can cut with a video editor but it'd be nice if you did it so that quality isn't lost by recompression)
• Spy is killed in the Bottle one (Spy should only be killed by tauntkills)
• Audio quality is very bad. Not sure if it's blip.tv though; will download the originals and see...
• Relative audio volume is also a bit off; training music shouldn't be that loud in order not to cover the in-game sounds.

Sticky bomb one is the best~ :3 — Wind 00:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Follow-up: Yes, it was blip.tv's audio quality. Only thing to fix for the Sticky bomb one is the relative audio volume (try listening to the other videos as reference) and it should be perfect — Wind 00:29, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Second follow-up: Thanks a lot, it's up. — Wind 07:46, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Non-Projectile Weapons?

Batallion's Backup, Bonk! Atomic Punch, etc... What's the criteria for the videos on these? Demonstrate getting hurt prior to use and then after use? Fendermcbender 02:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Batallion's Backup: Get the bots to damage you until it's ready, heal yourself, use it, show damage reduction; Bonk!: Use it, get the bots to fire at you, show that you get no damage~ — Wind 02:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Battalion's Backup Demo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2HrDM0dcQs

Few things I should mention. 1. This was the first of the "non-combat weapons", so there's not really a set-in-stone format. Because of that, it might be a little loose and I viewed this as a test for all of those weapons. 2. The audio when uploaded to Youtube, as you can see, is masked with a horrible "SCCH" when sound plays. It appears to be happening at random intervals. This doesn't happen with the original file, strangely enough. I'm going to assume there was a codec problem somewhere in the mixes. Will look into later? Unless one of you souls has an idea. :3 I used the codec provided on the guidelines and what not.

So give me some guidelines on how to make it better, I've also uploaded the original of this file here: http://www.mediafire.com/?jo1wpiwkeh6mbn3

That's exactly what I had in mind, awesome. The only bad thing is, indeed, the audio. You used some weird codec that even VLC couldn't recognize, so I'm impressed YouTube even worked with it, even though it clipped badly as you noticed. I suggest you reencoded the audio using MP3 compression (128 kbps or more, stereo). You can do that in VirtualDub by installing LAME (yeah that's the name of the MP3 library) and select it from the Audio compression thingy, after enabling Full processing for Audio. Also do "Direct stream copy" for video in order not to reencode the video (which would lose quality in the process) — Wind 04:31, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyA-ngmnuTg Dunno if it'll have to be changed. Audio has been fixed. Fendermcbender 23:27, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

EDIT: All fixed. :3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfRDkeOnyG0 Lemme know on here or on IRC if it's good enough for the original file. Fendermcbender 22:16, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

Should be good, can has original? TheMedik had some ideas on this page for the Buff Banner though, that might need to be reproduced on the Battalion's Backup. — Wind 00:51, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

http://www.mediafire.com/?9iu62un6bc7br7n I'd love to redo it with Medik if need be. Fendermcbender 01:22, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

Questions and complaints

There are numerous complaints on the YouTube comments about exploding/suiciding after taunting. It should stop and we should probably change the videos that feature it. Also, the user should change their name to something uniform for all videos. Perhaps [NAME] or Team Fortress Wiki. Also I think some feature custom HUDs. They should go too. My opinions. – Smashman _(talk) 13:37, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Ummm... maybe I can't read but, what exactly are there numerous youtube complaints about? Your first two sentences are unclear. I agree with you on the name uniformity. I dont think anyone them have custom HUDs, but we should make sure we are standard between the default and the minimum HUD. (Nice post time, 1337) Natemckn 13:51, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Oh sorry. I changed the Title which was what the first senteces were referring to. I'll fix that up. There we go. Hope that's clearer. – Smashman _(talk) 15:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

I say we use the default HUD, as this is the HUD that new players will be greeted with. And yeah. 1337! – Smashman _(talk) 15:47, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

I agree with the default full HUD and I updated the config to include "cl_hud_minmode 0". It was my videos that were using the minimum HUD because I had been using a custom one for so long I forgot what the default one looks like. I sent 4 more videos to Wind this morning that still use the minimum HUD, but from now on my videos will have the full HUD. As for the name, my vote goes for "TF2 Wiki". Short, simple, and clear Natemckn 15:53, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

We're trying to avoid the TF2 Wiki and Team Fortress Wiki confusion. Perhaps TF Wiki or OTF Wiki? – Smashman _(talk) 15:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

OK then, "TF Wiki" works or we could go with the url "Wiki.TF2.com". I'll stick with whatever we agree onNatemckn 15:57, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Actually I like that. But keep it lowercase, so wiki.tf2.com I'll whack up a vote or something. – Smashman _(talk) 16:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

They don't have custom HUDs, but Nate had the mini HUD enabled so that's what's caused the mix. This has been fixed in the config and they should be redone. As for the exploding, the complaints they are on are on videos where people explode during the taunt; the explosion should be fine if done after the taunt, which hasn't been respected all the time sadly. As for the name, it's a way to give back credit to who filmed the video, I don't think it should be changed. — Wind 16:46, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

If we want consistency on the exploding, we should change the guidelines. Right now they state: "and (if you want to) explode at the end of the taunt,". Natemckn 16:48, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

I just think the explosion is entirely pointless. I understand about minmode, and I'm glad that's getting fixed. The name isn't required, but it'd be nice to have it as uniform as possible. – Smashman _(talk) 16:49, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

And as for redoing the ones with the wrong HUD, I have no problem doing that, but I feel time would be better spent getting one up for every weapon before going back and redoing some of them due to minor inconsistencies. Natemckn 16:55, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

I agree. Get the content up and then fix problems. – Smashman _(talk) 16:58, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Minigun, Fists, GRU, Sandvich

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAQuL4CjzwY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16DOvJMsNPs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ditl0g6xSlA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTFne9goS9E I think they are still processing so wait a bit. I didn't knew exactly what to do in the sandvich, so i tried something new. The quality was way better on my pc, youtube knows how to mess some things :/ Swordz 18:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Hate to be a downer, but you probably should have thrown some rights, instead of only lefts. Maybe you could have stood back a bit more for the taunt kill, too.

Also, I think we should (somehow) show crit animations for melee weapons in general. Toomai Glittershine 23:41, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Already posted some criticism for those on IRC, but here goes again:

• • Show right-fist action (Fists and GRU)
  • Hover the right item in the backpack on the Minigun one
  • Make sure that the Spy is in the field of view when he is tauntkilled
  • GRU: Run around a bit (but don't show Spy!) to show speed increase
  • Sandvich: Drop the sandvich on the ground and have the Sniper pick it up; throwing it directly makes it look like you can throw it at people.
  • Sandvich: Don't taunt with the Minigun, taunt with the sandvich.
  • Sandvich: Get the bots to fire at you to inflict self-damage.

— Wind 23:46, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Yup i'm fixing it now. Also how am i going to taunt with the sandvich if i gave it to the sniper? Swordz 15:03, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

Do the throwing last. Perhaps you could also show the Sandvich recharging, if it's not too boring. – Smashman _(talk) 15:11, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

Wait until it recharges, just like the wait between the initial nomming and the Sniper throw. You can put a fade like you did to speed things up~ — Wind 15:12, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

Here's an update, I think sandvich is still wrong so tell me what i should do

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGQ0jJZq6_8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNDlQUXuCjk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gik59Zafak4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVmAr6naDSg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_R5vuDm_4Lk Swordz 17:32, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

Very nice, and good idea for the Natascha one. Only trouble I found is in the Sandvich one: It goes a bit fast when transitioning from the throw at the sniper. Don't throw it directly at people, just do the drop-on-ground-and-have-bots-pick-it-up thing, and the self-pickup one. Take your time between transitions. Anyway, other than the Sandvich, they're all perfect, so please upload them somewhere (or on the channel directly, as unlisted) — Wind 17:38, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

Flamethrower vid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWK4PPRipvI

I wanted to get a basic idea down. Things I need to improve:

• Stupid friendslist pop-ups. Forgot to go offline.
• Don't suicide at the end. Read Smash's complaint too late.
• Kill spy before recording?

Anything else?

Sound seems a little quiet, but it might be okay. Dunno, should get Wind's opinion on that. Usually the players in the video attack Pyro, Soldier, and Medic in that order. I didn't catch a glimpse of the Spy at all in your video. If he was - make sure he's not in your field of view. Try to plan the medic demo accordingly. (Attacking from the left side, facing more right side, if anything.) The Spy is solely used in videos in which the weapon has a taunt kill. Fendermcbender 05:17, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

I lowered the volume due to it being extremely loud on full. I'll knock the volume up a few notches. I did Medic second to showcase afterburn, then Soldier to showcase the compression blast and its capabilities. The Spy isn't seen, but he still fires when I press the command key, which bugs me endlessly. --Vaught 05:35, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

More things to improve: Use the default crosshair; don't hide the mouse cursor in backpack view; don't spew flames randomly in nothingness (at least don't flick the mouse around so fast, take your time, be smooth) kill the spy before recording so that you don't hear him shooting; let the Medic die from afterburn (the video right now kind of seems like you can't kill him without actively firing); play with the airblast on the Medic too so that you don't have to show it for pushing purposes on the Soldier. It is normal to kill the Medic before the Soldier in this one. But most important problem is the sound... It clips quite a lot (did you use a microphone to record your speakers or something? o_O), the training song is a bit too long for this video (some of them are shorter, I think one is exactly 41 seconds), and the relative volume between in-game sound and music is a bit off compared to the other videos. Still, good job mate~ — Wind 05:58, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

Oh yeah, make sure you're not using the HDR version of the map, too (try redownloading it to make sure) and that you have the latest config (it has changed quite a lot, even yesterday) — Wind 06:08, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

Forgot about those silly crosshairs! Forgot to untick the "Hide cursor" box in Fraps, blach. The spewing flames bit was to show the range, as in "I can't reach these guys, my flames are too sort!". I'll be more smooth though! I'll kill the spy then! Trying to kill medics with afterburn is somewhat long, which is why I ended him short. I can try and time it right so he dies from afterburn if that'd work. The sound is something I've yet to figure out as it comes out amazingly loud. I'm still tweaking a few things, but so far, the best I've come up with is lowering its overall sound. The music is a bit loud to cover up for my sound problem, eh-heh..oh, and the HDR is from the fact that I have HDR ticked on. Wasn't sure if that mattered or not. I'll give it another go and see if my tweaks worked! Thanks, love. --Vaught 07:41, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

Try opening the sound mixer where you can adjust the channels, and turn Stereo Mix very low (about 5~8%), see if that's better — Wind 07:44, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

I...don't seem to be able to touch Stereo Mix. How odd..--Vaught 07:54, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

Guess I won't be able to do this then. My audio comes out very dull and blech no matter what I try. If you're curious, I use RealTek Audio thingy. Sorry, guys.. --Vaught 08:01, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

What OS are you on? Fendermcbender 12:38, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

Windows XP (32bit) --Vaught 12:46, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

The Golden Wrench, Buff Banner, Übersaw.

Now, I've got the Golden Wrench working again, but there's a problem with HDR. Without HDR, the wrench only appears slightly golden, but more of a gold-brown. Can work with if needed.

• Buff Banner - Gain Rage, use Banner, Shoot one enemy. At the same time, have another player move in and out of the aoe to show range, also have friend use weapon to show minicrit buff.
• Übersaw: hit enemy, switch to Medi Gun to show über gain. Continue until fully charged, then use charge. Tauntkill spy.

Just my two centpieces on these. <3TheMedik 07:36, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

Golden Wrench should be done with that map, no HDR. That's how it is in game, that's how it should be. Buff Banner: Not sure if it's necessary to have a friend showing range; would be cool but then need to do that for Batallion's Backup as well. Remember to only bind the bot_teleport commands in order to respawn bot; don't re-add bots, otherwise it'll show in the message window. Übersaw idea is good. Also, go to sleep~ — Wind 07:44, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

fffff fine. Will use no HDR map :<. I still think that, at least, we show the teamwork equivalent of the banner. Don't want to make it seem like it's a one-person buff only :D. TheMedik 15:00, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

If you're not planning on doing this with bots or something Medik, I'd be willing to work with you on that sometime. Fendermcbender 01:23, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

SMG

I made a SMG video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sowi2-3l2g

Everything seem alright? If it looks fine I'd like to call dibs on like a dozen others. I can have them done in the next few days. :)

Oh, and here's the original video for download: http://www.mediafire.com/?u815ccsx133uxu3 - Annephrank 11:19, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

Looks pretty good. You followed all of the guidelines. Good job. It'll probably go up in a day or two. – Smashman _(talk) 14:29, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

 Nope While you respected all the directions, the video is 960x540, while the minimum resolution is 1280x720. D: Can you record it at that resolution? — Wind 14:46, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

Sure, it's uploading now and I have to go to work so I'll have them posted here later tonight in 720HD goodness. - Annephrank 19:42, 19 November 2010

Here they are! :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lm9f0qoeOk http://www.filedropper.com/showdownload.php/hl22010-11-1914-06-12-67

I just made 4 more too, I'll have them up soon. Annephrank 04:13, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

I'll do the Equalizer

Just one question: Where should I put the file up? ThePylo 17:24, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

Put it on Youtube as unlisted. If it's good, put it on some file hosting service (mediafire) — Wind 17:41, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

Nevermind, my computer's too slow for it. ThePylo 04:00, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

Gunslinger Video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4IXZnYXqCo

Here. Review please? JackIsASpy 19:22, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

Some things are wrong here :(

• Uses custom skins
• Has no HUD
• Resolution and framerate are too low (30 fps @ 1280x720 minimum)

— Wind 17:41, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

OK will be improving sometime soon. JackIsASpy 18:08, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

Okay perhaps this version is improved. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7z1Gm-vOpJ8 JackIsASpy 19:22, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

Still too low resolution and framerate. Your computer probably can't do it :( — Wind 20:57, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

But my resolution is set at 1360x768 (or maybe 760), how is that too low of a resolution? JackIsASpy 07:34, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

Well, the YouTube video doesn't have the 720p option. So the viedo you uploaded was probably shrinked from the original version. When uploading a video to YouTube, click on the arrow that says "Upload details" and it will tell you the resolution of your video~ — Wind 07:36, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

Alrighty sir, I will be working on that sometime soon. JackIsASpy 15:16, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

My third attempt is here. This has got to work, come on. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqRF3qOjlxk JackIsASpy 15:59, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

Sorry but again, no D: This looks like it has been enlarged to make it "HD", and the framerate is still under 30 fps (see this for example, don't you feel it's smoother?). I don't think your computer is capable of doing it, sorry... — Wind 17:32, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

You don't think there's a way of making my framerate better? JackIsASpy 18:28, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

Other than getting a new graphics card, no, sorry :( — Wind 21:19, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

Does the dxlevel have to be at least 90? JackIsASpy 14:29, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

Yes, says so in the first requirement — Wind 20:12, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

How about mine? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlK4Lhs-KRI Blue A10 04:22, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Some things to fix:

• Gunslinger is not selected on character preview in the backpack (shotgun is selected)
• Gunslinger tooltip in the backpack is transparent (custom UI?)
• Not starting in normal location (you should be in the little wooden thing)

Pretty close though, don't think anyone has gotten it this close on their first try~ — Wind 04:33, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Huh, I thought that was normal, I don't have a custom UI. I didn't watch other melee weapon videos until after I did it, and I thought it was annoying to jump over the box. Later I saw everyone else doing that and thought about it. I'll try to do another one real quick, but it takes like an hour to upload Youtube videos through HughesNet. Also, do you think I wasted too much time in the video, and should I taunt again after killing the Spy? Blue A10 04:43, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

That's weird, yeah, shouldn't be transparent... Hmm. And no, the timing was just right, don't waste more time but don't spend more time waiting either. And no, don't taunt again after killing the Spy; end the recording right when the camera is back to first person after the tauntkill — Wind 05:45, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

I think it has to do with the resources reloading over and over, like when you alt tab out, and then back after like 30 minutes, the console won't work, and killcam says %playername%. I was running the game in windowed mode since my monitors native resolution is 1920 x 1200. I have another video I'm fixing to upload to youtube that is 46 seconds instead, where I cut wait times a tiny bit, and ends the video after the taunt. You also can't see the blood where I rehearsed it all over the floor and walls. :p If you want me to, I could try using more AA or 1920 x 1200, but I don't think even my new computer could handle that + fraps. Oops, forgot sig. Blue A10 22:47, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

I see Nate went ahead and made one, but here's mine anyway. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxzYVgwIEo0 Blue A10 23:38, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

That one looks perfect to me. Sorry I already did that one. When you start your next one, go on the list of weapons and mark it as  Reserved by blue a10 so people dont work on the same ones Natemckn 03:21, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Vintage weapons

Anyone else think the weapons in the videos should be non vintage just for default sake? Everything else seems to be strict and default so why not? Just a thought :D - Annephrank 19:47, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

I brought this up earlier and I agree. But people may not have a non-vintage weapon, and we don't want to discriminate because of this. – Smashman _(talk) 20:15, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

It shouldn't be too difficult to obtain a non vintage item. I'd gladly donate one to anyone who needs one. :) Having vintage and non vintage is inconsistent and possibly confusing to a new player. It's not too big of a deal though. - Annephrank 20:57, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

Bonk! Atomic Punch, Bottle

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yr0tW_ZXj-4 Bonk! Atomic Punch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIb3BBBqpm8 Bottle

Fendermcbender 02:03, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

First, don't rotate the model at the beginning (have it already placed at a nice angle) (if you redo the Batallion's Backup one, do that too). Don't taunt in the BonK! video because Bonk has no taunt. Also try to keep holding F instead of just tapping to make the Pyro actually attack. As for the Bottle one, is says "%A..." where the stickiy count usually is D: — Wind 02:20, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuypxbOFhjA Bonk! Atomic Punch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O50EgrSSHZs Bottle Fendermcbender 03:59, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

All good. Upload originals please~ — Wind 05:46, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

http://www.mediafire.com/?oxoofxlx1ajfj6z Bonk! Atomic Punch http://www.mediafire.com/?ypwpqjpfaqjilvw Bottle Fendermcbender 06:37, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

Will upload tomorrow~ — Wind 07:36, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

Done, thanks~ — Wind 04:57, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

Weapon Demonstration

I want to do the Huntsman Demonstration, the Sub Machine Gun Demonstration (SMG), the Big Kill Demonstration and the Frying Pan Demonstration, if I can do all of them let me know, thanks.

IIRC the SMG and Big Kill have already been done. JackIsASpy 15:19, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

Template:Youtube

Seeing as the point of this project is to make all the weapon demonstration videos into widescreen HD - can we PLEASE update the Template:Youtube code to use a widescreen player? TheChrisD ^{Rants•Edits} 16:10, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

No, we can't, because that's part of a MediaWiki extension which we cannot modify since we don't have direct access to the server the Wiki is hosted on. However, I might add some JavaScript that, when the page loads, detects all the embeds in page and replaces them with HD embeds. — Wind 17:32, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

Yea, I ended up doing some research into it and found the extension involved, but the current version of it apparently has support for a youtubehd service, which I presume would do the change necessary (widescreen + HD). Although I question how it was on in the first place seeing as it's an extension and not bundled into Mediawiki? TheChrisD ^{Rants•Edits} 23:49, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

Because we asked Valve to add it (see Team Fortress Wiki:Technical requests) and they did. Since then, we asked them to add a lot, but none of them have been added so far, so it's unlikely that they will add it anytime soon :( — Wind 03:43, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

Axtinguisher video

Here it is I've followed all the instructions, I believe. Samiam22 04:05, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

Doesn't have the correct ratio (16:9) D: Also, the colors look kind of... off. Did you modify the contrast? — Wind 04:25, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

No I did not modify the contrast. I can do it again in 16:9 if its necessary.Samiam22 05:20, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

All done: Ubersaw, Engi and Scout lugermorphs, and the KGB + Some questions.

Ubersaw: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DR9innX3kE

Lugermorph (scout): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x20q3xmP-2k

Lugermorph (engi): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wew81GDA_7w

KGB: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bm3t7kIH0g

And I fixed the SMG one if you missed it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lm9f0qoeOk Download: http://www.filedropper.com/showdownload.php/hl22010-11-1914-06-12-67

Here's the file download containing all of them (sans smg): http://www.filedropper.com/kgbubersaw2lugers

Questions:

I made three different versions of a degreaser video. 1) Shows quick weapon switch, single flame, holding the flame down, and airblast. 2) Shows single flame, holding the flame down, airblast, then flame + quick kill switch to fire axe. 3) Shows single flame, holding the flame down, airblast, then flame + quick kill switch to axetinguisher. Which one would be most appropriate to upload here? I personally think number three is since the quick sting kill is an important part of the weapon's use.

Also, in all three of them I show the spy. I don't kill him but he is visible. There's nothing wrong with this, right?

Thanks guys :D Annephrank 07:04, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

Again, some things to do:

• Engineer Logermorph/SMG: Re-read the reloading guidelines: Only reload when completely empty, and reload at the end before taunting
• Add music everywhere please~ (But not the Lugermorph ones because they have to be concatenated)
• Ubersaw: Have to show that it charges! See Swordz's video below. Also don't show the spy until the very end
• SMG: Opening backpack thing: Only start recording when the weapon's tooltip is displayed. Wait for a few seconds, then close

KGB one is great, though; I added the music and put it on KGB. — Wind 20:12, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

More from Swordz (Ubersaw, Southern Hospitality, Crit-a-cola, etc)

I have just saw that someone already did ubersaw, but i will put it anyway

Also, whoever see this, i got an idea: I'm sure you guys have contacts with valve (due to the wiki cap thing), so why don't you suggest them to put all this thing in-game after we finish this? I mean, in the loadout there will be a button: "See Demonstration" and a box would open and the youtube video would load. Then EVERYONE would see our job :D It shouldn't be that hard, just throw the map demonstration thing and load the youtube video, or put all the videos into the files (My videos are like 20mb, i don't know about people who records in .avi)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBSbBw7vgW4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxW7UxZy56g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHMDe6-NB6A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twbKxsp26OM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJGaCF_Ybes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iRoGRG5AmA Swordz 11:20, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

It took them a few months to get the "Community Comments" button in-game, and all it does is open a web browser. I doubt we could see them in-game in the foreseeable future (+Valve time), but I agree that it would be very cool. In the meantime, let's be happy that they are in the articles, which are themselves accessible in-game. On to the videos:

• Crit-a-Cola: The Scattergun isn't a melee weapon, don't leave the starting position when shooting. Don't taunt, since the Crit-a-Cola has no taunt. As for demonstrating self-mini-crit: type teleport_spy_back to hide the spy; bind a key to teleport_soldier; once you have killed everyone, press the teleport_soldier key and then have him fire at you.
• Ubersaw is very good, but there's one thing it doesn't show: that you can refill your uber while it's going. I suggest, after hitting 4 times, activating the uber, then swinging a hit of Ubersaw, then showing uber being refilled, switching back, etc (only a few times though). So: Hit Pyro 3 times, hit Soldier once, activate uber, wait a bit until like 50% ober, hit Soldier once, switch back to uber to show that it has refilled, hit soldier again, show uber again, wait until it dies out, then hit soldier once to kill it, hit medic thrice to kill it, activate uber, then do what you did with the spy, that was cool.
• Southern Hospitality: Needs to show the whole duration of the bleeding. Let the Pyro get the whole bleeding before killing him off. Rotate the camera during taunt to show the engineer from the side or something. Also, why killing yourself by the Spy? I like the last thingy showing that it reveals cloaked spies though, but take more time there (wait until the bleeding ends)
• Jarate: I really liked the little bounce it did on the wooden thingy at the beginning. Kill the Soldier, though! He's jarateed, so... The fire extinguishing thing is very cool though.
• Equalizer: Take damage "naturally", by having enemies shoot at you, rather than setting it to set values. Kill the Pyro at full health, go back in there and take some damage until ~half health, kill the Soldier, go in front of the Medic and take some damage until you're almost dead, kill the Medic, then tauntkill the Spy.

Kukri is perfect though, can you upload the original? — Wind 20:12, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

I don't understand what you want from the crit a cola. It's impossible to kill all of them without getting out of the wood thing AND teleporting the soldier to hit me before the crit ends... Swordz 17:33, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Then do it separately with a fade in between~ — Wind 17:39, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Alright... Also, i had recorded everything now just to notice that i have recorded everything on 1440x900 instead of 1200x720, goddamnit Swordz 17:44, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Higher resolutions are fine (and better), as long as they have the correct ratio (16:9) — Wind 17:45, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

That's the problem. 1440x900 is 16:10 so it fucks up youtube's widescreen :P Swordz 19:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Yeah but you could go 1440x810 or something — Wind 21:18, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Alright, i have re-done some. Just missing the crit-a-cola and equalizer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkNkIxGL20Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVgE-ZbnyTQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mkqiHiAEpY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUdmoUXKRso

I could not replicate the bouncing jarate thing :( Swordz 16:43, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

All great, and yes you did replicate the bouncing Jarate thing at the very end of the video. Please upload~ — Wind 16:49, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

Buff Banner and Battalion's Backup (revise)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79ix7fj97Rk Battalion's Backup

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7Li5gx2TBw Buff Banner

Fendermcbender 21:32, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

http://www.mediafire.com/?cs1vod6bsq937tc Battalion's Backup http://www.mediafire.com/?4i9137lcz30ai6v Buff Banner Fendermcbender 23:24, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

Buff Banner's ok, but the Battalion's Backup doesn't have a taunt, so don't taunt. Shock394 23:49, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

How else do you propose I show the differences between the Buff Banner's flag and the Battalion's Backup flag? Fendermcbender 23:51, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

The taunt shows what the flag and effect on the player looks like. I think it should stay. Natemckn 23:52, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

PDA demonstration

here is my second attempt at a demonstration I hope its good enough.As it is the PDA I could not show the engineer in full model but I do demonstrate how it works.Please note I'm new to video making and video demonstrating. :) --hj 20:22, 22 November 2010 (UTC) []

Good start but I noticed a few minor technical things. 1) The Fraps watermark has to go. You need to find the full version of fraps or use the source recorder. 2) The round timer on the top shouldnt be there. Make sure you are using the script posted here and there should be no time. As for the demonstration, I think all 4 buildings should be built/destroyed. Natemckn 20:27, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Ok thanks for the help.:)--hj 20:31, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

One more thing i just noticed. Don't taunt at the end. The PDA has no taunt so you shouldn't demo the pistol one Natemckn 20:42, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Natemckn is right on. Also, the framerate is too low, it should be 30 frames per second. I think I should add hud_fastswitch to the config, too... — Wind 20:46, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Would it be better to have something that shows off the different levels, to show things like different teleport speeds? --Sentry 11:00, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

--Sentry 13:56, 29 November 2010 (UTC) I created a test video. It seems to be 4:3 although it shouldn't be and the sound isn't there but it was just meant to be like a 'Would this be alright as a PDA submission that includes teleporter levels'. I can get the audio fixed. BTW, just out of curiosity, what Vegas profile would be best to render as since I don't have much experience finding the best format.. [2]

Sandman demo

I made a sandman demo following the guidelines as best as I could. I wasn't able to get behind the spy, so I just let him pop into the air.

1

Yoyomama 19:42, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

The spy is slightly visible before the taunt kill, and you don't need to taunt twice. Shock394 20:41, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

More stuff to fix:

• Sandman is not selected in backpack view
• Video seems to lag when you close the backpack
• Resolution is too low (no 720p option)
• Video seems stretched vertically (players are tall and slim, health bar "+" sign seems non-proportional)
• Not using the modified HudDamageAccount.res
• Need to go back to the starting area (inside the wooden thing) before launching the ball
• Taunted twice

Should be it :3 — Wind 22:02, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Well I think I got it this time. 1

Yoyomama 05:06, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

You are much closer this time, but now the video is double letterboxed. Since its 16:9, it should take up the whole youtube player. As for the demonstration, I would hit the ball at all three targets to show that short range does no stun, medium range does short stun, and long range does long stun, then beat them all to death. As for the taunt kill, I personally would edit the config so the spy is a few steps forward so you can get behind him and hit a home run. Keep up the good work, you're almost there Natemckn 16:07, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Gotcha. I'm having trouble with putting the music in though. Sony Vegas and MSS both automatically resize the video when I put it in, and I don't know how to put it in 720p. Yoyomama 18:22, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Add me on steam and I will help you with Vegas. My steamID is ths same as my ID here Natemckn 19:27, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

A series of demos

I was wondering if I could go ahead and make videos for the Bonesaw, Chargin' Targe, Flamethrower, Grenade Launcher, Huntsman, Shotgun, Sniper Rifle, Stickybomb Launcher, and the SMG. NOTICE: I'll start on this tomorrow, today I'm going to play around with them and see if I can unlock more stuff for videos.

For the Flamethrower, I want to Kill the pyro at close and medium range to show damage drop of flames. I want to set the Medic on fire to show the flame damage, and for the Soldier, I want to deflect his rocket back at him to show off combustion blast.

For the Grenade Launcher, I'll have to get past the pyro or use direct hits on him, then shoot nearby the soldier and let them blow up on the ground, then show the weapon's projectile arc while going for the medic.

I need to know which class I should do the Shotgun with. The Soldier/Heavy, the Pyro for his tauntkill, or the Engineer because its his primary.

For the Hunstman, I'll kill the Pyro with just quick shots/no charge, and follow with, 1:Kill the Soldier with fully charged bodyshots, then kill the medic with one fully charged headshot. Or 2: Kill the soldier with halfway charged shots, with a halfway charged headshot to finish, and then one fully charged bodyshot followed with a fully charged headshot. I also want to show how the fully charged arrows will pin targets to objects behind them, but all that will be left and the only one close to a wall, is the Spy, and I still need to kill him with the Skewer tauntkill.

For the Sniper Rifle, I want to shoot the pyro with a no scope, then zoom in and fire without the charge to show damage similarities. Afterwards, I would shoot the soldier(or the medic with his low health) with a half-way charged body shot, and then a halfway charged headshot. For the Medic(or Soldier with his high health), I will do one fully charged body shot and one fully charged headshot.

For the Stickybomb Launcher, I don't really know what to do, and would like someone to tell me.

For the Chargin' Targe, I also don't really know what to do. Blue A10 23:38, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

I was planning on doing the Chargin' Targe. But it's totally fine if you do it. I was planning on it being a fairly complex video. I'd jump out of the kiosk you start in and show a short range charge on the pyro. Fade out. Next clip, medium range charge for a mini crit on soldier. Fade out. Show a full range charge on medic in order to get a crit. This is all with the bottle. Longer fade to a cross-showing of a demo getting hit with solely a rocket with Chargin Targe and without. do the same for one burst of a flame from the pyro. (At least I think Chargin Targe is fire resistance, can't remember.) thoughts? If you'd like to take that idea, go for it. Fendermcbender 01:11, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Go ahead, that's much better than anything I could have done for it. Blue A10 01:36, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Advice: Don't do them in bulk because there's high chances you'll have to redo them.

• Flamethrower: OK. Remember to wait until the fire goes away on the medic at least once to show duration. Also remember to show airblast on players (knockback)
• Grenade Launcher: Use direct hits for the Pyro, it shows self-damage, which is pretty important to know.
• Shotgun: For multi-class weapon, record the thing for all classes as if they were separate videos, then queue them together and put (probably multiple for this one) songs over it.
• Huntsman: Second way seems the best to me; not sure if showing the pin effect is really necessary, though it's funny. Maybe move someone next to some crate and add that as an extra sequence after the taunt.
• Sniper Rifle: Give the Medic the fully charged bodyshot to show that it kills him (which is pretty important to know)
• Stickybomb launcher: Put a sticky next to the pyro, explode (it's good if it shows self-damage), repeat one sticky at a time. Then do multiple stickies at once for the soldier, same deal for medic. For the medic, switch to another weapon to show that you can explode stickies without having the weapon selected.
• Chargin' Targe: What Fendermcbender said. With rockets and flames, that's 4 videos to take, so they can be all displayed at once with one video in each quadrant — Wind 02:55, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Don't forget to show the charge itself dealing damage at some point. As for stickies, maybe you can also do a detonation while taunting? Toomai Glittershine 03:01, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Doing some videos

I've been recording some videos using the "record" and "startmovie" commands.

I can't really say I can finish these videos, so I can't promise a "reservation" or the like

What I've currently finished are Ambassador, Revolver, and the Sniper Rifle. What I'm missing now are the loadout part and the bg music

Here's what I've covered up on each weapon:

Ambassador:

2 Headshots - Pyro

3 Bodyshots at maximum fire rate; +1 Headshot to show no damage fall-off - Soldier

1 Headshot and multiple failed headshots to show that the Ambassador needs full accuracy regardless if the target was actually hit on the head - Medic

Revolver:

Shots; also showing that it does not register headshots via shooting at head - Pyro

Shots to show damage fall-off at mid-range; max attack rate - Soldier

Shots to show damage fall-off at longer ranges - Medic

Sniper Rifle:

Noscopes; also showing that it does not register headshots when unscoped - Pyro

Full bodyshot + full headshot - Soldier

Fail headshot (when shooting too soon) + 0% headshot - Medic

Tell me anything I've forgotten to place so I could do them again.

Denmax 11:40, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Those all sound pretty good. You can see the ambassador video that I made (using the old config, so it needs to be redone) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCAQYlPRpM0 Make sure to demonstrate that if you shoot too fast you cant get headshots.

Your plan for the revolver sounds good.

As for the sniper rifle, make sure to demonstrate 1) noscope 2) 0% bodyshot 3) 0% headshot 4) 100% bodyshot 5) 100% headshot. As long as your video shows all 5 of those shots it should be good Natemckn 16:19, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Degreaser demonstration

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PF0PjIecMMg I followed the guidelines pretty closely, or at least I hope. Wernstrum 22:52, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

That does respect all guidelines (wow, didn't think you could reach the Soldier from there) but doesn't demonstrate the unique things about the Degreaser: Fast weapon switch and reduced afterburn. To show this, you need to let the whole afterburn last on either the medic or the Soldier, and you need to switch weapons to show how fast it is.

It also needs to demonstrate airblast, so have the soldier fire a few rockets and reflect them; also demonstrate airblast on people (push the medic back, etc) Good start though~ And if you redo it, try not to linger this long on the backpack view (3~5 seconds is enough) — Wind 22:55, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

No problem; here's the redone version. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rF7tTLnhJaYWernstrum 23:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Very nice (especially the reflect-rocket-towards-Pyro part, that looks cool). However, two things still need to be changed: Do not fire with the shotgun (only switch weapon to show speed, and wait a second after having switched before changing back; take your time), and try to hide the spy next to the Medic; he is quite visible in this video while burninating the Medic.

I trust that this 3rd take will be perfect, so please upload the original on some file host rather than putting it on YouTube, so that it may be uploaded to the official youtube channel. — Wind 23:58, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Here's the video redone with the changes ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7vn3HG9n-M ) and the download link ( http://www.filedropper.com/degreasertake4compressed ) I've actually been putting a download link in the descriptions of all the previous YouTube videos as well, but that's a moot point.Wernstrum 00:34, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Oh derp, sorry. Thanks, uploaded~ — Wind 01:46, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

I think this is going to have to be redone again :( The comments are complaining about the long-range-ness (also seems fishy to me); maybe try jumping up so that the flame isn't deformed. Also, you didn't wait after weapon switching — Wind 15:34, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I noticed that the flames coming out of the weapon don't look like they should reach the Soldier even though they do. I left in because I've seen the weapon distort in-game but I'll redo it to prevent confusion. Also, I'm a little confused by what you mean by waiting after weapon switching; do you mean switch from the degreaser to another weapon, then wait? On that note, I was thinking about when weapon switching to switch to the Axtinguisher and kill a bot to show the speed of the puff & sting (minus the puff) since they go together so well, but I thought I'd ask before I added it in. I could do it with the default axe, but no one does that when the Axtinguisher does it so much better.Wernstrum 16:22, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

By waiting after weapon switching, I mean switch to some weapon weapon and then wait, and then switch back, and then wait. Axtinguishing the Medic as fast as possible would be good too (make sure to bind a key to slot3+attack at the same time so that you attack really as fast as possible) — Wind 02:16, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

Force-A-Nature demonstration

I hope this is a good vid...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R13xE8s_KaE Chibiku 02:42, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Looks good, but I would add one thing: demonstrating self knockback. Maybe do a triple jump with it and a force-jump with it. Add that and upload it somewhere so we can add it to the official wiki youtube channel Natemckn 03:33, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Ok, mind reserving this weap for me? gotta sleep. Chibiku 04:06, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Done Natemckn 04:10, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Video looks a tiny bit choppy; it's okay but next time close all background programs and stuff to get best performance. I also like the fact that you only shot once at the target in the back, showing that you lose a shot if you reload after having fired one shot only. — Wind 04:40, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

I made a new video, showing the Force Jump's height boost and the Triple Jump giving me enough distance and vertical momentum to cross a large area. See here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMLfLV3hJmE Sorry if it's a bit over a minute, doing all that force jumping added a few seconds. Chibiku 22:51, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

The video is perfect but you can go a lot higher than that with a Force Jump, so I suggest you do another take to show the jump's maximum altitude. Lots of people don't know about it, so it is quite important to demonstrate this, indeed. — Wind 23:11, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Whew, finally made a vid that's under a minute and shows off some tricks a FaN scout can use to cover ground. Here it is. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1Z9cqsHE5M Chibiku 01:09, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

Is good. Please upload this, Natemckn~ — Wind 02:16, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

Upload is here. http://www.mediafire.com/?b49tgsalx46dq3b Chibiku 02:30, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

Done Natemckn 03:42, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

Weapon Switch Animation

Shouldn't the video really showcase the animation that is shown when a user switches to the weapon? I'd suggest that the recorder should either start the video with a different weapon and then switch to the weapon being demonstrated, or switch away and then switch back towards the end. - Mr. Magoolachub 08:43, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

It's a nice idea, but that would require redoing everything done so far, which isn't quite feasible at this point :( — Wind 23:11, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Lugermorph Demonstration

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykRHuQ6fsFc The quality is perhaps a little lower than I'd have liked, but other than that, any criticisms or things I have not done? I also realised afterwards that I should probably have included scout with Lugermorph, so I will likely redo this again anyway with the scout attached to the end. Or at the start, who knows. - Mr. Magoolachub 11:09, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ds7KtJK976o it is not yet uploaded, but I really need to go to bed, so I'm just leaving it to upload while I sleep, I imagine it will be viewable in about an hour. - Mr. Magoolachub 16:09, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Looks good to me, I'll wait for Nate to upload it because I have limited bandwidth >: — Wind 23:11, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Looks great, just need a download link Natemckn 03:18, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

http://www.zshare.net/download/831488007a133a0d/ There you go, sorry it took a little while. - Mr. Magoolachub 09:08, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

The preceding discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.