Team Fortress Wiki talk:Weapon Demonstration/Archive 21

The following discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

The Invisible Rogue

Is this considered a set effect or just item effects? Regardless, should this go in to illustrate what happens when wearing these items? A lot of people haven't even noticed this effect yet. Set Demonstration: The Invisible Rogue Also, video is unlisted. --Squinte 15:45, 2 November 2011 (PDT)

This applies to items when you don't have the full set, so it's not a set effect. So no, no need to put it there — Wind 23:15, 2 November 2011 (PDT)

I am going to do some more scientific research on this tomorrow. I haven't ruled out the possibilities that these items do something to your cloak through the eyes of the other team. --Squinte 14:44, 4 November 2011 (PDT)

I hate to disappoint you, but this is a glitch that happens to all the hats and miscs (and weapons), and not only to the pieces of this set. Here's the proof: one and two. — Zhnigo 11:05, 5 November 2011 (PDT)

Bootlegger

Mellotaku, do you mind if I take this demo for myself? You've got three other reserves and I've already got the .dem files from Ali-Baba's Booties. ^^ — Zhnigo 13:11, 3 November 2011 (PDT)

Sure, go ahead, I've been distracted recently with the Wanga Prick & the Unarmed Combat.--Mellotaku, The Sorcerous Shapeshifter 13:14, 3 November 2011 (PDT)

Thanks! This vid will be especially flashy with srcdemo, with all the dashing. — Zhnigo 13:54, 3 November 2011 (PDT)

This took longer than expected because I first rendered it in the wrong resolution by accident. Anyway: YT/MF. — Zhnigo 08:10, 7 November 2011 (PST)

Can you use the same damage comparison as Ali Baba's Wee Booties? — Wind 18:44, 7 November 2011 (PST)

Sure, but it's going to take a while. :) — Zhnigo 06:46, 8 November 2011 (PST)

Here you go: YT/MF. — Zhnigo 19:38, 12 November 2011 (PST)

Is good, please upload~ — Wind 00:26, 13 November 2011 (PST)

B-but I already did, under "MF". — Zhnigo 01:53, 13 November 2011 (PST)

herp derp etc — Wind 14:11, 13 November 2011 (PST)

The Brundle Bundle

 Reserved by Akuago220

Since all this does is pitch shift his voice, I think I should just taunt with every weapon I can and audioduck so that people can hear his high-pitched voice. --Akuago220, The Jungle Expeditioner 09:44, 29 October 2011 (PDT)

Could perhaps be fine as a split-screen (with the taunts at different times, not synchronized, obviously) — Wind 12:49, 29 October 2011 (PDT)

Alright, here's my take on the bundle. BTW, that's just how the audio for the Engineer goes with his voice at a very high-pitched frequency, not because of a rendering problem. Download it here. --Akuago220, The Jungle Expeditioner 19:39, 30 October 2011 (PDT)

Yes, I know. You should probably also show some popular voice commands (medic, need a dispenser here, gotta move that gear up, etc). I realize it's a bit hard because you have to get exactly the same line; feel free to use a modified talker script, modified sound files to force one line to always come out, or just multiple clips — Wind 21:46, 30 October 2011 (PDT)

If that's the case, then can you give me a list of lines and responses you want me to do (just don't go overboard; we just need enough to get the point across). --Akuago220, The Jungle Expeditioner 06:47, 31 October 2011 (PDT)

Those 3 should be enough — Wind 08:39, 31 October 2011 (PDT)

Okay, here's the demo again, but with the extra lines you wanted me to put in. Download here. --Akuago220, The Jungle Expeditioner 06:54, 1 November 2011 (PDT)

Is good, but can you invert the two clips? (normal on left, set on right). No need to upload to youtube to check, upload directly :3 — Wind 13:33, 1 November 2011 (PDT)

High Five!

Possible list of stuff to show in the demonstration:

• Show yourself lifting your hand and staying there for some time, then release the action key.
• Have someone else prepare the High Five to show the HUD message.
  • Run to that person and taunt to initiate the high five.
• Show respective Hi Five animations (could be done in two ways):

1. Class X high-fives Class X (so it shows the 2 possible animations for each class).
2. Class X high-fives Class Y (so only one of the animations for each class is shown, although it takes half less time).

• Show message when trying to high-five and facing an obstacle.
• Show message when trying to high-five and facing a gap.

 –  Epic Eric (T | C) 17:19, 24 October 2011 (PDT)

• Seems straightforward. I'm gonna collaborate with a Skype friend of mine (since he has the High-Five Taunt) to work on this demonstration tomorrow. I think I'll go for (Class X high-fives Class X) option just to show all the animations. --Akuago220, The Jungle Expeditioner 20:53, 24 October 2011 (PDT)

There's a little hitch; I can't see the message to high-five someone when someone wants to get high-five'd, neither can my friend when I try to get him to high-five me. --Akuago220, The Jungle Expeditioner 16:34, 25 October 2011 (PDT)

D: — Wind 18:00, 26 October 2011 (PDT)

You'll have to reset the tutorial messages, I guess, like in L4D. But I'm not sure how. Maybe a console command? — Zhnigo 16:19, 30 October 2011 (PDT)

Well so far there doesn't seem to be a command that I can find that'll allow me nor my friend to see the messages again. But if they were just for tutorial means, then maybe we shouldn't need them after all. --Akuago220, The Jungle Expeditioner 07:33, 4 November 2011 (PDT)

Did you try to reset status? I know it's bad way but did you try? Hinaomi 07:43, 4 November 2011 (PDT)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yA63i5vOj7I — Armisael (T | C) 20:11, 13 November 2011 (PST)

Mind sharing the commands you used? :3 Other than that, scattergun slot is lit up at the very beginning — Wind 20:50, 13 November 2011 (PST)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-EHcyDy0Cw I have idle accounts. — Armisael (T | C) 13:52, 14 November 2011 (PST)

Is good, please upload~ — Wind 17:19, 14 November 2011 (PST)

Back Burner

Comparing to the degreaser video, I feel that extinguishing is a more important feature then spychecking. However, cloak reveal is important too. Note that in this video Armisael messed up the 4 dmg burn time--not very professional looking :P Also the 'thrower could do with a better airblast. Darkid 19:44, 3 November 2011 (PDT)

If we're trying to be picky, the thing I'd rather see in a demonstration is the exact angle at which the crits start to occur. I'm having an impression that, unlike the backstab's full rear hemisphere, the angle for backburner crits is closer to a 90 degrees arc. Want me to try and redo the demo with this in mind? — Zhnigo 08:45, 7 November 2011 (PST)

That is what it is, according to Backburner — Wind 18:44, 7 November 2011 (PST)

Bazaar Bargain

 Needs to be redone (only lose one head on miss)

 Reserved by Zhnigo There's been some talk on the BB talk page about the old demonstration being a bit too erratic, I'll consider that. — Zhnigo 09:32, 21 October 2011 (PDT)

There it is, in full motion-blurry glory. :3 YT/MF. Srcdemo may be slow, but I just can't resist the final clean look, and stable FPS too. Guess for me it's just quality over quantity. — Zhnigo 15:22, 23 October 2011 (PDT)

Just out of curiosity, what framerate was that rendered at? — Armisael (T | C) 16:08, 23 October 2011 (PDT)

30 fps * 20 blended frames = 600 host fps :3 — Zhnigo 17:16, 23 October 2011 (PDT)

Well doesn't dat look dandy. There is some pretty bad audio desync issue at the beginning though (look at the first shot on the pyro, he squeals 0.7 seconds after he gets shot). This is probably due to that bug in source recorder which causes the .wav files produced when rendering at high framerates to be slightly off-sync. To fix this, simply rerender the demo with a more normal framerate (but higher than the game's demo tick rate of 33, otherwise some sounds may get skipped completely) and use the .wav from that render. Also, if you're going to go the same router as the saxxy and show the draw weapon animation, cut out any frame that contain the old weapon. Looks like some remnant of his hand in the bottom left corner right when the loadout screen closes. That might be part of the animation though, so ignore this if that is the case — Wind 17:06, 24 October 2011 (PDT)

Sorry for the delay, life's been a bit harsh on me lately. ^^ So, I've messed around with the audio tracks, now it syncs about right: YT/MF. That thing at the right corner of the screen in the beginning is actually the butt of the rifle, so I left that intact. Should I remove it? — Zhnigo 14:26, 30 October 2011 (PDT)

Still kinda iffy at the beginning... but ok — Wind 21:46, 30 October 2011 (PDT)

The tooltip still states that "A miss wipes the bonus", so apparently it'll have to be redone when they fix it. I will also erase the "Crafted by:" mention. :3 — Zhnigo 09:31, 7 November 2011 (PST)

Bonk! Atomic Punch

 Done but need to redone (Mouse moves improperly at loadout screen, effects could be better demonstrated, show reactions to mad milk, jarate, drowning (maybe), machina, healing, etc.)) Darkid 05:25, 20 November 2011 (PST)

I think it's fine... the mouse movement isn't too bad (it would have been if he rotated the model), and demonstrating the effect with other effects would open a large can of worms of other things that should also be demonstrated by that same logic >: — Wind 17:39, 20 November 2011 (PST)

Can-o-worms? Like which weapons? Honestly, these side-effects are some of the serious things to be aware of with Bonk!™ Atomic Punch. Admittedly, the loadout screen is minor, but while we're at it...Darkid 20:06, 20 November 2011 (PST)

Like showing how jarate doesn't affect uber'd targets, showing how you can't drown while uber'd or healed showing the degreaser with the axtinguisher, then the postal pummeler too, show that healing negates bleeding effect, etc. Basically, showing interactions between weapons that are not the default ones creates so many links and possibilities that in the end it becomes impractical to show all of them, and makes maintenance of other, unrelated-until-now weapon demos a pain — Wind 22:43, 20 November 2011 (PST)

Ubered targets would, in my eyes, fall under this. However, Ubering and Bonk™ are the only two items which can grant invulnerability, so it seems as if this is a relatively minor issue. Dealing bonus damage with the axestinguisher/pummeler is (should be) shown in their respective videos, not in a flamethrower one. I can understand the want not to open up to much insanity, however I leave the decision up to you. — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Darkid (talk) • (contribs) 4:15, 21 November 2011 (PST)

Basically, allowing this video to show special cases with weapons opens up lots of possibilities of other special cases, not only Uber; i.e. Degreaser+Axtinguisher, Atomizer+FaN, Dead Ringer+L'etranger, etc. —Rocket Ship BBQ(•) 09:55, 21 November 2011 (PST)

Indeed, it would pretty much create this exponentially-growing network of weapon and their dependencies between one another. Every time a weapon was updated or added, all the weapons that it affects would also need to be updated, which is not easy to maintain. Moreoever, it is unpredictable, since it's Valve that does the modifications/addition, and there is no way to know what will get changed in advance. This causes some wasted effort (like the Cow Mangler with its constantly-updating particle effects; imagine if the Cow Mangler had a really special effect that affected 5 other weapons. Then each time the Cow Mangler changes particle effect, it would be 6 demonstrations in need of updatingness). Keeping the "dependency network" down to only the stock weapons, which Valve tends not to touch, keeps the required effort down to a manageable level. — Wind 17:03, 21 November 2011 (PST)

Ok! OK! It was a bad idea :( Darkid 19:06, 21 November 2011 (PST)

Is ok :3 — Wind 20:49, 21 November 2011 (PST)

Cow Mangler 5000

 Done but needs to be redone (new effects)

It said in the October 27th 2011 patch that the effects had been updated.

Sorry Akuago :( They do like to change the damn effects, don't they — Wind 12:49, 29 October 2011 (PDT)

Tell me about it... I'll get it done tomorrow. --Akuago220, The Jungle Expeditioner 20:27, 30 October 2011 (PDT)

And there we have it. Download here. --Akuago220, The Jungle Expeditioner 07:55, 1 November 2011 (PDT)

Thanks, is good~ (But please please please, the framerate D: Needs to be smoother in future videos) — Wind 13:33, 1 November 2011 (PDT)

Chargin' Targe

 Done but needs to be redone (need to show pyro can stop charge with air-blast, demoman still have charge left when stop with air-blast and can charge while mid-air)

It needs to redone again because It doesn't not show pyro can stop charge with air-blast and demoman still have charge left when stop with air-blast. I think split screen is good to do this work. Hinaomi 06:55, 25 October 2011 (PDT)

I forgot charge while mid-air too. Hinaomi 07:40, 25 October 2011 (PDT)

Is that really necessary? ._. — Wind 12:13, 25 October 2011 (PDT)

I think if you show that pyro can stop charge and demoman still have charge left, everyone will know the way to stop charging demoman. But If you think doesn't need to redone then... Just on you Wind. Hinaomi 22:22, 25 October 2011 (PDT)

I don't think showing the fact that the charge meter doesn't decrease fully is necessary, but demonstrating the you can stop charges like this would indeed be handy — Wind 18:00, 26 October 2011 (PDT)

Dalokohs Bar

 Something went terribly wrong with this--the health seems to move sporadically and not related at all to the bar. I'm also a little confused as to what it was trying to show.Darkid 05:25, 20 November 2011 (PST)

 ? Looks fine to me. The health is moving accordingly to the eating and healing by the Medic. It was showing:

• How it healed 60hp
• How Medics can still only overheal to 450hp
• How it wears off after 30 seconds and gives remaining hp as overheal
• How at ~300hp will give you +50 max hp.

—Rocket Ship BBQ(•) 09:57, 20 November 2011 (PST)

Ok, so this is just me being confused as to how the dalokohs bar works. Rather than granting 50 overheal, which was what I expected to happen, it buffs the health of the heavy by 50. No issue with this. Darkid 10:22, 20 November 2011 (PST)

Darwin's Danger Shield

 Needs to be redone (current video does not show third person and uses unorthodox techniques of damage demonstration Possibly also show that overheal amount changes? Darkid 16:28, 23 November 2011 (PST)

It's not unorthodox, works fine... It's from the enemy's perspective compared to most demonstrations, so I agree that it is inconsistent in that regard, but it makes sense to do so here because it differentiates the two snipers in a way that a first-person view wouldn't do. If the video were to be redone, then sure it could be done differently, but it doesn't need to be redone — Wind 17:20, 23 November 2011 (PST)

"The idea: To have one consistent video style demonstrating how weapons work."

Aside from that issue, I have no problem with the video. Your call, but I'd advocate consistency. Regardless, it could be done in about 5-10 minutes by anyone with the proper tools. Darkid 18:12, 23 November 2011 (PST)

Ok, Darkid, three things. One, this video, and frankly most of the other videos you have marked for redoing, is fine to most, if not all, other people. Two, it takes much more than 10 minutes, much less five. The combined time of starting TF2, loading the map and scripts, creating the necessary binds for use in the demonstration, multiple takes, editing sound and fades in, rendering, and finally uploading the video takes far upwards of one hour. Finally, three, you are marking all these videos for redoing, and yet it is not contributing to the overall quality of the wiki. It is simply creating more work. Additionally, if you claim it is extremely easy to do, then perhaps you should do it? Everyone, after all, had all the necessary tools: TF2, and a basic video editor. If you are to be unhappy of small issues in these videos, then you should be the one to recreate them. —Rocket Ship BBQ(•) 00:25, 24 November 2011 (PST)

My apologies for seeming slightly obsessive in this regard, I merely want a certain level of quality with these videos. I take great pain in the fact that I cannot contribute, as this is due to my complete inability to run TF2 at more than minimum settings and ~30 FPS. I was not aware of the extensive amount of work, so I shall refrain from posting any suggested revisions aside from serious considerations. Darkid 15:05, 27 November 2011 (PST)

Degreaser

 Needs to be redone (current video does not use splitscreen to show weapon switch speed comparison)

In the Fists of Steel and the Reserve Shooter demonstration, there is a splitscreen to show the difference between weapon switch times. Wouldn't it be useful to show the switch increase with a splitscreem? SpaceAnimator 05:44, 29 October 2011 (PDT)

Yes — Wind 12:49, 29 October 2011 (PDT)

 Reserved by Shadow6548

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJfJzOQwL1Y — Armisael (T | C) 21:07, 15 November 2011 (PST)

Dat blendrate

Is good, please upload~ — Wind 23:14, 15 November 2011 (PST)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvr4igDPAbk Sorry. Just realized that I forgot to disable resampling in Vegas. It makes things all ghosty. — Armisael (T | C) 05:47, 16 November 2011 (PST)

But but but that's a good thing :( That's exactly what SrcDemo2 does, except without shutter angle consideration. Still better than no resampling — Wind 16:10, 16 November 2011 (PST)

Apparently SrcDemo does it better than vegas, because even smart resampling gives disgusting motion blur. Personally, I prefer clean and a little choppy over smooth and really blurry, and since there doesn't seem to be a way to get both without spending an 20 minutes recording each clip, clean and a little choppy it is. — Armisael (T | C) 19:00, 16 November 2011 (PST)

Well not really, motion blur (even simulated) and ghosting are a bit different things. :3 The latter is usually considered a nuisance and the first one a controlled artistic effect. — Zhnigo 18:26, 17 November 2011 (PST)

Fan O'War

 Needs to be redone: Item is store-bought, start is improper

Also, might we want to change the way this demo is done? Darkid 17:23, 22 November 2011 (PST)

The order of the keeling, perhaps. But it still has to show how futile this weapon is in actually dealing damage itself, which the Pyro does a good job of demonstrating — Wind 17:35, 22 November 2011 (PST)

I do feel that it has to be redone due to the issue with the item. You could even just splice in a different video track for the beginning. I'm wondering if it would be better to have a friendly attacker merely attack them, rather than having the scout kill then the demoman kill. Darkid 17:47, 22 November 2011 (PST)

Far too much hassle for such a tiny issue. —Rocket Ship BBQ(•) 18:01, 22 November 2011 (PST)

Fire Axe

 Needs to be redone (show weapon in loadout screen)

The current video doesn't show the Fire Axe in the loadout screen. SpaceAnimator 05:44, 29 October 2011 (PDT)

How did this get through QA? Oh wait — Wind 12:49, 29 October 2011 (PDT)

 Reserved by Zhnigo If everyone doesn't mind. The SRCDemo's motion blur goes best with melee weapons. — Zhnigo 14:33, 30 October 2011 (PDT) Well, that was easy: YT/MF. — Zhnigo 16:17, 30 October 2011 (PDT)

Well dat was fast. Thanks~ — Wind 21:46, 30 October 2011 (PDT)

Flare Gun

 Needs to be redone (current video doesn't hit target at back) It is important to hit the target at the back since this weapon arcs. — The preceding unsigned comment was added by SpaceAnimator (talk) • (contribs) 09:10, November 16, 2011

Is it really important? - Hinaomi (Talk) 19:37, November 16, 2011 (PDT)

How did this go through QA? >: Yes, it is important, especially since it arcs. — Wind 16:10, 16 November 2011 (PST)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OecSVLRCD5k — Armisael (T | C) 19:00, 16 November 2011 (PST)

Yes I did miss it, and Darkid removed the "cough" message too. Anyway, is good, please upload~ — Wind 22:43, 20 November 2011 (PST)

Golden Wrench

 Solid corpses, no moving parts, and update kill line

Corpses are still not solid from my testing... And the line that was added is actually already in the demonstration, I was using a modified talker file i-ghost made to add it — Wind 21:46, 29 October 2011 (PDT)

Gloves of Running Urgently

 Needs to be redone (current video does not use splitscreen to show speed difference and show that the speed boost only applies when the weapon is out.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qilwR77C2Q — Armisael (T | C) 20:46, 14 November 2011 (PST)

Cough. — Armisael (T | C) 19:00, 16 November 2011 (PST)

Wind = Herp derp. Yes, is good, please upload — Wind 22:43, 20 November 2011 (PST)

Gunboats

 Needs to be redone (current video does not use splitscreen)

It needs to be redone because it would be better if a splitscreen was used to compare self damage from rocket jumps. Thoughts plz Wind :3 SpaceAnimator 11:07, 28 October 2011 (PDT)

Scotsman's Skullcutter

 The Scotsman's Skullcutter's slowdown attribute no longer shortens the Chargin' Targe's charge length.

This was changed back in late June, I have no idea why no one has nominated this weapon's demonstration for reconsideration yet. -- Psychopath 13:13, 13 November 2011 (PST)

It really wouldn't even need to be remade. Just chop the last part off that demonstrates it and it'll be fine. Balladofwindfishes 14:01, 13 November 2011 (PST)

The patch didn't actually do anything. In fact, the current video was made in response to the aforementioned patch. — Armisael (T | C) 18:04, 13 November 2011 (PST)

Splendid Screen

 Done but needs to be redone (need to show pyro can stop charge with air-blast, demoman still have charge left when stop with air-blast and can charge while mid-air)

It needs to redone again because It doesn't not show pyro can stop charge with air-blast and demoman still have charge left when stop with air-blast. I think split screen is good to do this work. Hinaomi 06:55, 25 October 2011 (PDT)

I forgot charge while mid-air too. Hinaomi 07:39, 25 October 2011 (PDT)

Again, is that really necessary? — Wind 12:13, 25 October 2011 (PDT)

I think if you show that pyro can stop charge and demoman still have charge left, everyone will know the way to stop charging demoman. But If you think doesn't need to redone then... Just on you Wind. Hinaomi 22:19, 25 October 2011 (PDT)

Default quality of videos

I personally dislike how the videos default to 720p. I presume that the majority of people prefer 360p due to it being default and faster load times, especially on slow internets/computers. I personally prefer 360p because it loads much faster. Discuss. —Rocket Ship BBQ(•) 21:16, 2 November 2011 (PDT)

In Youtube if your video have quality more than 360p. Youtube will crate 360p and another size if you have large quality. So 720p is the best for slow and fast internet. Hinaomi 22:46, 2 November 2011 (PDT)

 What? I don't understand your logic. —Rocket Ship BBQ(•) 22:52, 2 November 2011 (PDT)

I agree that 720p is overkill for the default player size, 480p would be a better fit. However, YouTube doesn't support (officially, at least) a way to specify the default format anymore. The only parameter they do allow to control this id "hd", which only toggles between 360p (hd = 0) or 720p (HD = 1). At any rate, I think it's a fair assumption to say that if you can play TF2 on your computer, then you probably have the required bandwidth and the processing power to be able to play 720p video. — Wind 23:15, 2 November 2011 (PDT)

True point. Still, the 720p causes it to play slower due to loading times. Hmm, is it possible to make it a user setting through the template? Probably not worth it however. —Rocket Ship BBQ(•) 23:19, 2 November 2011 (PDT)

Would be possible with JavaScript and storing the setting as a cookie, but yeah, that would be extra code for everyone to load for little benefit — Wind 23:27, 2 November 2011 (PDT)

Less than a kilobyte of code, and cached, to save megabytes of download per video. Or am I confused? --Fashnek 11:29, 29 November 2011 (PST)

The video doesn't get preloaded, so no, the only cost of bandwidth is to load the flash player base files, which are very likely to already be in the user's cache if that person has previously visited any website that has a YouTube video on it — Wind 11:36, 29 November 2011 (PST)

Rocket Jumper and Uncraftable Items

Does the Rocket Jumper need to be redone, as it now allows you to survive an Equaliser taunt? Also, can uncraftable items be used for the demonstrations? availn 23:37, 16 November 2011 (PST)

Does the Rocket Jumper need to be redone >> Yes, but not now.

Can uncraftable items be used for the demonstrations? >> Yes, you can. But if you have craftable one, use craftable. Hinaomi 00:07, 17 November 2011 (PST)

Problem with maps

I downloaded the maps required for the video, put them in my maps folder and I got an error saying that they could not be stored in the maps folder. And when I close my window it automatically removes the files. Though when I put them in the folder again it says to replace the files. I kept the window open and started TF2. I opened the console and typed in the code required to access the maps, and it didn't work. What am I doing wrong? --The Great Irish Warload 22:30, 24 November 2011 (PST)

I uh, I'm not sure what to say here. What is saying that the maps "cannot be stored in the maps folder"? — Wind 23:37, 24 November 2011 (PST)

Well you see I was exporting the files from WinRAR, and it said that an error occurred during the process of exporting when I put the files in the maps folder. Is it because it's a 7z file and i'm using WinRAR? --The Great Irish Warload 23:41, 24 November 2011 (PST)

make sure you have the latest versions of WinRAR. Old versions can open but not extract from LZMA2 7z archives, so it's probably that. Or you could use the free software 7-zip to extract it — Wind 23:48, 24 November 2011 (PST)

Thanks for your help. I will be getting WinRAR 4.01 soon. --The Great Irish Warload 11:34, 25 November 2011 (PST)

The preceding discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.