Team Fortress Wiki talk:Weapon Demonstration/Archive 19

The following discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Medi Gun

ok, so here's what i'm thinkin:

• start off showing medigun in inventory
• exit out of inventory
• have 2 freindly heavies and one enemy soldier
• have soldier kill 1st heavy (don't use medigun on this one)
• on 2nd heavy use medigun and demonstrate how the healing can help save teammates and win the fight
• fade into next scene
• ubercharge is at 100%
• activate it on heavy
• have soldier shoot rockets at heavy, have medic looking at heavy to demonstrate how he isn't losing health
• end movie

(almost finished with the critacola and Medic Pack set, all i need to do is find a good program to do splitscreen and i'm set. All i got is wmm atm, any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.)
 Reserved by Gringo perm

Sony Vegas, it's what all the cool kids use. The Medigun demo needs a lot more information than that, however:

• Show how healing rate is affected by time since injury
• Show UberCharge rate buildup depends on healing rate
• Show that you can keep healing even when not looking at the person
• Show that you can uber multiple people and show the difference in UberCharge drain rate
• Show how the medic himself is invulnerable to damage
• Show that allies (and enemy spies) can read the UberCharge meter
• Show overheal:
  • Show that overheal depends on base class health (takes more time to overheal a Heavy than a Scout)
  • Show that overheal drains over time at a fixed rate
  • Show overheal effect

As you can see it's a lot more complex — Wind 19:13, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

Note: It might be a good idea to wait until Valve pushes the healing HUD text on the current version of TF2 before doing a Medigun demo. — Wind 05:23, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

Also show that you get assists when the person you're healing kills someone (and teamkilling assists with enemy spies). Rocket Ship BBQ 10:11, 4 July 2011 (PDT)

I think that the Quick-Fix demonstration could be a good template for showing how the Medigun works at the start:

• Have a friendly Scout, Soldier, and Heavy line up with each other while the Medic heals the Scout, then the Soldier, and finally the Heavy when they have full overheal.
• Heal the Soldier and walk around randomly to show that the beam follows the Soldier, even when the Medic's not facing him, until he walks far enough that he cannot reach him.
• Look directly at the Soldier to show his health, making note that the overheal depletes over time.
• Fade to the next scene to show the perspective of a friendly Spy facing a Medic.
• The Medic heals the Spy to show the HUD of the ubercharge rate and the overheal effect on his health meter.
• Have the Spy cloak himself to show that the Medic cannot heal a cloaked Spy.
• Fade to the next scene to show the perspective an enemy Spy disguised as a Soldier facing a Medic.
• The Medic heals the Spy to show the HUD of the ubercharge rate and the overhear effect on his health meter.
• The Spy swings his knife to show that as soon as his disguise is gone, the Medic cannot heal him.
• Fade to the next scene to show two friendly Heavies standing by each other and an enemy Soldier standing on the other side of the room, like in the demonstration for the Amputator.
• Friendly Heavy 1 is shot with three rockets; the Medic heals him immediately to show the healing rate.
• Friendly Heavy 2 is shot with three rockets; the Medic waits for a while and then heals him to show the healing rate.
• Fade to the next scene to show the same setup as last time (two heavies and a soldier), only that the Medic has 100% uber.
• The Medic deploys his uber on Friendly Heavy 1 showing a blue glow surrounding his whole body. The enemy Soldier shoots at him to show that he cannot take damage.
• The Medic then switches to heal Friendly Heavy 2 to show that Uber can go to another person while Friendly Heavy 1 is still shot with a rocket to show that he no longer has invulnerability.
• When the Medic runs out of uber, fade to the next scene where the Medic faces the enemy Soldier with 100% uber.
• Deploy the uber and have the Soldier shoot at you to show that you are protected as well under the effects.
• Switch with a different weapon to show that the uber still depletes despite not having the Medigun out. Switch back to show that it's still there and let it run out.
• Show the taunt for the Medigun.

I hope this helps. I'd do it, but my specs are not even close to good enough for recording. -- Antwan 00:44, 12 September 2011 (PDT)

This does help quite a bit, thanks. I do have some suggestions for improvements though:

• For the healing rate, I'd put a 3-way split-screen (3 vertical bands), each with a Heavy in the middle and a soldier in position to shoot at them. Perhaps this might get a little crowded for a 3-way split-screen, so the Soldier could be standing on crates or something to make him appear above the Heavy so that the whole scene is visible. In clip #3, the Soldier fires 2 rockets at the Heavy. 15 seconds go by, then the Soldier in clip #2 fires 2 rockets at the Heavy. Another 15 seconds go by, and Soldier in clip #1 fires 2 rockets at the Heavy. Immediately after this hit in clip #1, Medics in all clips start healing their Heavy, and it shows how fast the Heavy is healed according to the recency of the hit. I think it being side by side will help here, because rate of healing might not be noticeable if demonstrated serial-ly. Additionally, a custom HUD should be used to make sure the uber meter is visible, to demonstrate that uber buildup is related to healing rate
• The first demonstration of the ubercharge needs to show players the "usual" duration of an ubercharge. This means that the Medic must not switch uber target during the first uber, or viewers will get the wrong idea. So I think the first uber should be dedicated to show both the patient's invulnerability and the medic's invulnerability; then, in another clip, with with something like 3 friendly bots: uber them in the same charge, so that the uber meter drains very quickly (noticeable without needing a split-screen). It demonstrates the it-only-works-when-the-medic-is-healing-you-ness at the same time.
• Some details are not demonstrated in this video:
  • Ability to uber a disguised enemy spy
  • Overheal amount depends on base health of the class

That's all I can think of right now~ — Wind 17:54, 12 September 2011 (PDT)

Wow, you were not kidding when you said there's a lot to cover. Alright, taking these fixes into account:

• Showing off the overheal for all classes could happen before showing the ubercharge rate. Maybe a 9-screen with text at the top of each screen stating each class to show how fast the rate goes or show each class individually in order of menu selection.
• The 3-way split screen could be doable after that. As for the ubercharge rate, the Quick-fix demo actually showed a zoomed-in picture-in-picture of the ubercharge at 0:20. We could have one of each in their respective clips to show the ubercharge rate as well as the healing rate.
• The Heavy can be healed for the whole duration then in the bit when he shows his uber. No second Heavy
• The disguised Spy receiving an uber can happen immediately after that: the Medic faces the enemy Spy, then the friendly Soldier, and then the Spy disguises in front of the Medic while he deploys his uber on him. The friendly Soldier shoots rockets at the Spy to show that he cannot take damage as well, despite being on the other team.
• The three friendly bots being healed in the same charge you suggested can happen after that, before the final scene where the Medic uses the uber for himself.

Now that I think about it, the Kritzkrieg video doesn't show off the overheal either. That probably should be fixed too. -- Antwan 03:44, 13 September 2011 (PDT)

I should probably write this here, but this isn't just the Medigun demo; this is the "Healing" demo, where aspects of healing that apply to all medigun variants are shown so that they don't have to be re-shown in the other demonstrations. Otherwise, it'd be pretty cumbersome...

I disagree about the 9-split-screen, that's way too hard to really follow. Just two classes should do, it just needs to point out that there's a difference~

The quick fix demo does use zoomed-picture-in-pictures, but modified HUD files are preferred because it looks more natural. It's especially important during split-screens so that it looks like it belongs to the clip, instead of being a separate thing. — Wind 15:46, 13 September 2011 (PDT)

Well, here it is, the first draft of the Medi Gun demonstration, I really want to get this done correctly, so please let me know about anything I missed or did incorrectly. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joEuirUMjMs http://www.mediafire.com/?fuj31iqz43e486n--Mellotaku, The Sorcerous Shapeshifter 12:31, 15 September 2011 (PDT)

Eeeee I'm glad to see this monster of a demo being attempted :3 Still, I'm afraid that's not really what I tried to describe (and probably failed at doing so). I'm gonna go with the plan here and comment on how the video deals with each point. Maybe this form of reviewing will be easier to follow, I dunno~ You tell me:

• Have a friendly Scout, Soldier, and Heavy line up with each other while the Medic heals the Scout, then the Soldier, and finally the Heavy when they have full overheal.
  • First clip of the final video should be a merged version of the first two clips of this draft video. It shows healing, it shows healing multiple people, it shows overheal, it shows overheal decay, it shows uber buildup. Use multiple people, heal them, show the overheal, show how it decays, show how you can build uber by healing people.
  • Don't unleash the uber right after you get it. It gives the impression that it's automatically activated
• Heal the Soldier and walk around randomly to show that the beam follows the Soldier, even when the Medic's not facing him, until he walks far enough that he cannot reach him.
  • This is not shown in the video. Can be included in clip 1 if one of the healing targets is human
• Look directly at the Soldier to show his health, making note that the overheal depletes over time.
  • This is not shown in the video. Should be included in clip 1
• Fade to the next scene to show the perspective of a friendly Spy facing a Medic. The Medic heals the Spy to show the HUD of the ubercharge rate and the overheal effect on his health meter.
  • This is not shown in the video
• Have the Spy cloak himself to show that the Medic cannot heal a cloaked Spy.
  • This is shown in the video but with an enemy spy disguised as a friendly one (more confusing). Should be merged with the above clip
• Fade to the next scene to show the perspective an enemy Spy disguised as a Soldier facing a Medic. The Medic heals the Spy to show the HUD of the ubercharge rate and the overhear effect on his health meter.
  • OK
• The Spy swings his knife to show that as soon as his disguise is gone, the Medic cannot heal him.
  • Shown in the video, but from the Medic's perspective. Should be merged with the Spy part
• 3-way split screen to show heal rate
  • Demonstrated well, but needs the ubercharge meter displayed in the middle of the screen (use a modified HUD), and 15 seconds was perhaps a bit too long; try 10 seconds intervals instead
• Scene to show uber invulnerability
  • Well demonstrated, but the friendly Heavy is firing in the air for no reason. Either use a human so that he doesn't shoot, or use two Soldier bots with the bot_forcefireweapon so that the Heavy bot doesn't fire
• Scene to show uber on multiple targets
  • Current clip is pretty much that, but goes way too fast D: You don't need to actively switch between targets for the drain rate to be affected. You just need to switch once per target.
  • Demonstrating self-invulnerability is done in this clip, no need to re-demonstrate it
• Switch with a different weapon to show that the uber still depletes despite not having the Medigun out. Switch back to show that it's still there and let it run out.
  • This is not shown in the video. Not sure it needs to be shown though
• Show the taunt for the Medigun.
  • OK, though on second thought maybe you should do that at the very, very beginning of the video. It's a bit unusual, but I think it'd look better than at the very end, and that's one less clip to merge

The above doesn't have to be followed in this order, but all of this does have to be in the video — Wind 13:00, 15 September 2011 (PDT)

Ok, here is attempt number two. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npSYmEPBi3g http://www.megaupload.com/?d=80AHDX46--Mellotaku, The Sorcerous Shapeshifter 17:27, 17 September 2011 (PDT)

Alright, is better~ But quite tedious for the first part... As I said, you can merge all of that. The overheal, the decay, the charge, the uber, the movement, the range, all in one clip. I'm going to attempt to redescribe it:

Three bots: Scout, Soldier, Heavy. Look at them, start healing one until max overheal is reached. Stop healing, stare at the overheal decaying. Then start healing the soldier. Move around the room, show the angle thing, show the range, etc. Heal him until about 50% charge, then switch to the heavy. Heal him while still looking at the soldier (to see his overheal decay) until like 85% charge. Then heal all 3 bots in succession until you get full charge. Then unleash the uber on one of of them and wait for it to fade out. Tada~

That one clip should replace everything in the video up to 3:08.

Other than that:

• Clip at 3:09 is good, yay
• Clip at 3:50 is also good
• Clip at 4:05 shows the right things, but there is a pretty severe audio bug, and the pyro's flames are invisible (they're there, but it's hard to tell you're being fired at). Why not use two red soldiers?
• Clip at 4:30 is not necessary anymore if it's merged with the first clip
• Clips at 4:54 are good, but the uber meter is not at the bottom of the screen. Can you bring it down to where it normally is on the Y axis? Only translate it on the X axis
• There is no fade (and a sudden black screen) at 6:18
• All the rest is perfect~

Good luck :3 — Wind 18:11, 17 September 2011 (PDT)

Ok, here it is, the third, and hopefully last try. I really have to thank both Akuago220 & Armisael for their help with this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJ-CcDf8z28 http://www.megaupload.com/?d=WF0D0BYH--Mellotaku, The Sorcerous Shapeshifter 23:34, 17 September 2011 (PDT)

All the footage is perfect :3 I do have some last remarks, but they don't require any reshooting to fix:

• The soundtrack is a bit repetitive, as it's only the first few seconds of the song, repeated over and over again. Usually this wouldn't be a problem, but this being a very long demo, is gets quite noticeable. If you can't do it yourself, I'm sure Armisael can cook you up a longer and more diverse mix, he's good at that~
• It is unnecessary to stare at the Demoman at 3:15, as overheal decay has already been demonstrated. No need to reshoot, just cut the video sooner
• Some transitions time are quite long, such as 2:27 (4 seconds of staring at Heavy; can shorten that to 2), 2:54 (4 seconds of staring at the Heavy; can cut that to 1.5~2), 4:41 (6 seconds of staring at Medic; can shorten that to 2~3). The fades are also quite long (half a second is usually enough). I usually tend say the opposite (transitions too short), but this video is very long, so each second saved is a good thing.

That should be all~ Hopefully these modifications should be much easier — Wind 00:20, 18 September 2011 (PDT)

Ok, here it is, I believe I have fixed everything. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKFWJQ4y66Y http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ZW21Q5M9 --Mellotaku, The Sorcerous Shapeshifter 08:32, 18 September 2011 (PDT)

Whee :3 This was one of the hardest demos ever. Glad you could pull it off~ — Wind 11:23, 18 September 2011 (PDT)

Pip-Boy

Hi! I'm thinking of doing a Pip-Boy video, similar to the PDA, though I have no idea how to drop those ammo boxes? Is there a console command to do so? Mark (Talk) 09:12, 8 August 2011 (PDT)

Ammo boxes can be spawned by typing ent_Create item_ammopack_full (or item_ammopack_medium, or item_ammopack_small). Be careful with the Pip-Boy demonstration, however; I'm not sure if that one's actually going to get done. There's some disagreement about it. — Armisael 09:25, 8 August 2011 (PDT)

Thanks, though I guess I'll wait then. Did the discussion take place on the wiki? Mark (Talk) 11:14, 8 August 2011 (PDT)

Both on IRC and on here (through edit summaries... not the most visible place, true), the rationale being "the PDA is a weapon, so it gets a demo; the Pip-Boy is not a weapon, so it doesn't get a demo". Now if someone did make a demonstration that was of the same quality as the PDA one, then it should probably still be put on the page, but I think energy would be better spent on other items first — Wind 21:28, 8 August 2011 (PDT)

Agreed with above, for example, the maul, the postal pummeler, and the iron curtain are all essentially reskins of existing weapons, but get demonstrations because they are weapons, and the name of the project is weapon demonstration project. Woodledoodledoodle 17:56, 9 August 2011 (PDT)

But the Teleporter, the Meet the Medic taunt, the Schadenfreunde and the Directors Vision aren't weapons yet they got demonstrations so why not the Pip-Boy? Don't see anything wrong about it. SpaceAnimator 08:48, 11 August 2011 (PDT)

Provided Mark doesn't get back to us on this, I have a Pip-Boy and decided to make one. Download it here. --Akuago220, The Jungle Expeditioner 22:26, 12 August 2011 (PDT)

Ah, nvm then :). I'll see if there's a different one I can do though. Mark (Talk) 04:37, 13 August 2011 (PDT)

Please use the number keys for switching weapons directly instead of the scroll wheel, as this reduces the chance of broken animations (when the PDA just pops on screen without any hand animation) and looks less confusing~ Thanks — Wind 10:20, 13 August 2011 (PDT)

I know it was ill-advised to make a video of the Pip-Boy, since it's just a skin of the PDA, but here's my attempt at such a thing. Here's the download link for it, too. 22:24, 16 August 2011 (PDT)

You didn't run weaponrec.fg :( It should enable fastswitch so that the weapon switcher at the right doesn't show up unless you can't select the weapon. The demonstration also goes very fast for certain things; the point of the Pip-Boy is to make the PDA interface look different, so allow at least 3 seconds of not-walking-or-moving-the-camera-or-pressing-any-buttons-ness for both the build and the destruct PDA. Also, since it's just a "reskin" (same functionality, different look), try to make the demonstration an exact copy, more or less (more or less same building placement, more or less same crates, more or less same timing) — Wind 00:27, 17 August 2011 (PDT)

Essentially, watch the PDA demo, go from that exactly, and try that again? Alright. Got it. 10:21, 17 August 2011 (PDT)

That and not forgetting to run weaponref.cfg to set fastswitch off and the correct fov and viewmodel fov, etc — Wind 10:57, 17 August 2011 (PDT)

Alright, I decided to try again at the demonstration, which you can view here. It took over 15 tries to get as few animation glitches as possible, but it's near impossible to do so without any glitches. It is even proven in the PDA demonstration that the animation glitch is unavoidable. Download it here. --Akuago220, The Jungle Expeditioner 19:00, 12 September 2011 (PDT)

Yes, it is indeed impossible. I believe you've achieved a better animation success rate than the PDA one, too, so good work :3 Thanks~ — Wind 19:03, 12 September 2011 (PDT)

Saxxy

Dear god this one's gonna be long. Start looping you cp_steel folks; I you're going to need 7 or 8 iterations. — Armisael 02:46, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

Oh god. How can we find Saxxy??? Hinaomi 16:12, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

One of the wiki people won one, so he can do it. Alternatively, items_game. — Armisael 22:11, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

I got one, I'll do it...still wish I had a wiki cap though (Hint Hint) Darthz01 12:58, 5 August 2011 (PDT)

Ok, first draft, yes there are several obvious problems with set up and the recording, the huddamageaccount and video size (which I personally am going to blame youtube for). But, as a demonstration, did it come out fine? As in, is there anything I missed that I should include, or anything that should be changed, when I reshoot?

XXXXX

I'm already going to reshoot shortly after this post, with correct huddamageaccount and fix the resolution issue (Still blaming youtube, or maybe fraps, for that one). But I can easily make a new version after if any glaring flaws are found ;) Darthz01 17:01, 5 August 2011 (PDT)

So yes, as you said there's a bunch of problems like huddamageaccount and the upscaled-ness of the video; there are some others, which you may have already meant by "obvious problems", but I'll list them anyway just to make sure:

• The framerate must be 30fps (the video must feel smooth)
• The lighting is off (very dark floor and dark map in general); watch other weapon demonstrations for a comparison
• Antialiasing may or may not be off (cannot tell because the video is upscaled), just make sure it's on and at least 2X
• There are structural problems regarding the fact that it's a multi-class weapon; it's usually done by making individual weapon demonstrations for each class, then appending them one after the other. Look at Shotgun or Pain Train for examples

There are some other things to correct inside the demonstrations themselves, however since this video is long as there's many classes to cover, it is better to first check if you can meet the technical requirements to make a weapon demonstration. To do that, simply focus on one class (Scout for example, since that is probably the shortest one to do) and just post that on youtube, no other classes involved. This allows to check if everything is up to par on the technical side, so that no time is spent recording the rest of the video if it's not going to be used :3 Hope this helps~ — Wind 17:14, 5 August 2011 (PDT)

Alright, redid it a little based on your suggestions. 2x AA, got the correct hud and fixed the resolution, altered the brightness, and made it a little more like the shotgun video layout. I redid the scout and uploaded, based on the shotgun, I would essentially make a similar video per class and put them one after another with loadout shots between.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTim96gJVdc

Darthz01 19:51, 5 August 2011 (PDT)

It still seems very laggy and not very smooth. Judgement Wind? SpaceAnimator 09:46, 6 August 2011 (PDT)

I was looking at your video settings, Darthz, and I noticed that 1080p was an option. Was TF2 running at 1920x1080? If so, reducing the resolution to 1280x720 (even if you keep running the game fullscreen) will do wonders for your framerate. — Armisael

It's mainly FRAPS, I can get 50-60 FPS normally on high-very high settings, but FRAPS kills it to like 15. Know any recorders that don't lag the heck out of a game?Darthz01 10:39, 6 August 2011 (PDT)

Cutting your resolution to 720p means that FRAPS only has to record ~45% as much information. Since, as you mentioned, FRAPS is the framerate killer, this helps immensely. It turns out that the bottleneck in most machines when FRAPSing is the hard drive, because there simply is so much data being recorded. — Armisael 10:46, 6 August 2011 (PDT)

I tried the Wegame recorder, seemed to work wonders. Gonna upload one from that now and see how it goes. Darthz01 10:55, 6 August 2011 (PDT)

Ok, made one from the Wegame recorder, vid may still be processing but it looks a lot smoother than fraps: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdOSYBQC-Q4

Somehow I removed my own comment that I had written for the former video (the one recorded with Fraps), that said: "Sorry but the framerate is very sluggish D: And the lighting is the same (I didn't mean brightness, I meant the actual aspect of the map; check out how the floor looks in this screenshot, then compare with how it looks like in the video). I'm afraid your computer can't record fast enough and can't render the lights properly :( — Wind 21:56, 5 August 2011 (PDT)"

Now for this one, sadly it's the same deal :( Framerate is better (but still not 30), video is not 720p, the 480p version looks upscaled like the first Fraps one did, and the lighting is still off (the floor has a dirt-like color) — Wind 12:22, 6 August 2011 (PDT)

I recorded Saxxy demonstration. check this video. - RIKUSYO 12:00, 25 August 2011 (PDT)

Just a few problems:

• Start the vid with your cursor over the Saxxy box.
• Use the default crosshairs.
• Have it out before starting recording.
• Try not to miss any hits.
• Remember to look at the Pyro ragdoll until it reaches the floor.
• Kill an enemy Sniper as well to show the standing "ragdoll".
• Fade in and fade out when showing a different class using it.
• Don't spawn the Spy if the weapon doesn't have a taunt kill (eg. Pyro).
• Try to show that the Heavy's Showdown taunt-kill has a big range (kill the Spy a little farther away).
• When you're doing the Spy part, re-enable crits for backstabs.
• For the backstab part, show that you can backstab the Medic from his side.
• Take your time for each video. There's no need to hurry.

 –  Epic Eric (T | C) 12:11, 25 August 2011 (PDT)

OK, I'll retry recording. - RIKUSYO 22:43, 25 August 2011 (PDT)

Don't show that the Saxxy doesn't cloak with the Spy. If that gets patched then you'll have the trouble of doing it again. SpaceAnimator 11:15, 26 August 2011 (PDT)

All of what EpicEric said is true, but please do not record anything yet D: i-ghost is working on a version of the map with working golden corpses (not those bronze/chocolate ones) so the map needs to be updated first. You can, however, record the backpack parts where you just show the tooltip and press Close. Also, for the Engineer and Spy parts, make sure to watch the Wrench and Knife demos and imitate those exactly (the Wrench one especially has a lot of extra things). But again, don't record anything yet, wait for i-ghost. I'm just saying that in advance. Thanks~ :3 — Wind 11:47, 26 August 2011 (PDT)

Thanks, I wait for new version. - RIKUSYO 17:57, 26 August 2011 (PDT)

 Reserved by WindPower

Note: The map has been done and is available on the project homepage. I have gone ahead and recorded a Saxxy demo for all classes, but if you want to do it anyway, feel free to. I don't really want to seem like I'm cutting you short :( — Wind 19:24, 11 September 2011 (PDT)

Can I/We see the video you made plz Wind :3 and Golden Wrench vid- SpaceAnimator 12:15, 15 September 2011 (PDT)

I'm afraid that's impossible until Valve fixes their shit — Wind 12:31, 15 September 2011 (PDT)

Valve has fixed their shit, and I have gotten mine ready. I will be rendering over the next few days and upload on Monday if all goes well — Wind 00:54, 17 September 2011 (PDT)

Pardon my intrusion, but that srcdemo2 thing looks interesting. How exactly do you use it? — Zhnigo 03:53, 17 September 2011 (PDT)

I'll post a guide on the forums soon — Wind 13:46, 17 September 2011 (PDT)

Axtinguisher

 Done but needs to be redone (custom crosshair)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bkQPYUJjUI tr_target_weaponref_hdr — Armisael (T | C) 20:24, 12 September 2011 (PDT)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMVX-BSJrLI tr_Target_reworked_ents

Personally, I think the reworked_ents one looks better (but obviously will need a more... complete map for usage). If I recall correctly, i-ghost said that that particular map didn't work very well for the gwrench and the saxxy? If that is so, perhaps we could have 3 maps: tr_target_weaponref, tr_target_weaponref_hdr (currently tr_target_reworked_ents), and tr_target_weaponref_gold (currently tr_target_weaponref_hdr)? — Armisael (T | C) 15:07, 13 September 2011 (PDT)

Both demos are good content-wise (not that you didn't know that), but indeed there needs to be a bit more complete map. The thing is, some of the things that are missing in reworkedents are lights, so the lighting would look different on a reworkedents that has all lights on. Other than that, I dunno — Wind 15:46, 13 September 2011 (PDT)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItuNmbvvViw Oh well. Here's one on the old map. i-ghost said that reworked_ents should be usable soon, so hopefull I'll be able to transition to that fairly soon. — Armisael (T | C) 15:34, 15 September 2011 (PDT)

Sorry to pop in, and I don't really know where is the better place to discuss the map itself, but as long as a new map is being made, doesn't it make sense to not just rework it, but also make it better? I remember someone raising a question long ago that the weaponref map has to be longer to allow demonstration of sandman full range stun and longer rocket/sticky jumps, and should also feature bodies of water to remove fire, jarate, milk and short-circuit the invis watches. ^^ — Zhnigo 11:39, 16 September 2011 (PDT)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sR_9T58Evs I like this new map. — Armisael (T | C) 15:37, 16 September 2011 (PDT)

Thanks~ Please upload — Wind 00:54, 17 September 2011 (PDT)

Here is my version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xvg4FscLbGU . Let me know if you need the file. Plumpkins 00:23, 15 September 2011 (PDT)

Don't show the class selection screen D: It's also quite slow, you can be a bit faster and less useless moving around. The audio quality is also very poor, it looks like it has been clipped, then turned back down (or even recorded from a microphone sitting next to the computer's speakers). The audio balance is off as well (both music and content volumes are low, and the background music is too loud relatively to the content volume). It actually seems to fluctuate, similar to someone else who had troubles because of the "audio volume normalizer" thingy of the audio driver... So might wanna look into that. The rest is good though :3 — Wind 12:31, 15 September 2011 (PDT)

Ok, ill take a look at it. And about the useless movements: when you hit the first pyro with the axtinguisher, it won't push him enough to jump right in front of him, so i needed to hit him on his right side, thats why i made that movement.Plumpkins 16:19, 15 September 2011 (PDT)

That's fine :3 Just saying to keep them to a minimum — Wind 00:54, 17 September 2011 (PDT)

 Done, but needs to be redone (show that the damage penalty doesn't apply to buildings)

Akuago pointed out to me that this demonstration doesn't show that the damage penalty only applies to players, so time for another redo! — Armisael (T | C) 18:58, 21 September 2011 (PDT)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zt1IwF0Fk5c — Armisael (T | C) 20:32, 21 September 2011 (PDT)

Thanks~ That works quite well actually — Wind 20:39, 21 September 2011 (PDT)

Bottle

 Done but needs to be redone (show damage numbers)

Ok, here's my attempt. I believe I showed off the damage numbers pretty well. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUxHvJmUTMk http://www.mediafire.com/?ftq9u64403d51ce--Mellotaku, The Sorcerous Shapeshifter 13:19, 19 September 2011 (PDT)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZsDwKXkims I had one uploading while I was in class today. Oh well. Here it is anyways. — Armisael (T | C) 15:38, 19 September 2011 (PDT)

I'm sorry Mellotaku, but I don't think you have the right version of the map :( It was updated recently to be less blindingly bright, as you can see on the pyro's eyes at the beginning or the medic's clothes... However, Armisael makes too many demos anyway >.> So here's a deal: If you want to re-do this video on the latest version of the map and can do so before the 200th video gets uploaded (gonna take 2 or 3 more days), then your version will be used; else, Armisael's :3 — Wind 22:51, 19 September 2011 (PDT)

Thank you for the information Wind, here is a fixed version using the new version of the map. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgbqabMxODE http://www.mediafire.com/?msd65n14ldowjk9 Also, Akuago220 pointed out a problem with the download link to my Medi Gun demonstration so I went ahead and fixed it in case you were having any problems. --Mellotaku, The Sorcerous Shapeshifter 13:20, 20 September 2011 (PDT)

All good, thanks~ — Wind 20:44, 20 September 2011 (PDT)

I'm sorry I only noticed this now, but it seems the tooltip has the transparency glitch in the backpack view :( This happens if you change the game's resolution or antialiasing settings without restarting the game. Hopefully you won't need to re-record the in-game part, just the backpack part. Thanks and sorry I didn't notice that previously — Wind 17:23, 21 September 2011 (PDT)

Ok, here is a fixed version. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gX156JLb6qM http://www.mediafire.com/?g4gccb61d4a5ish--Mellotaku, The Sorcerous Shapeshifter 18:27, 21 September 2011 (PDT)

Is all good, thanks~ — Wind 18:45, 21 September 2011 (PDT)

Cow Mangler 5000

 Done but needs to be redone (Updated particle effects)

I liked the older effects, but beggars can't be choosers. Anyway, here's my revision. Download it here. --Akuago220, The Jungle Expeditioner 10:36, 16 September 2011 (PDT)

Very good, no problems, but would you mind redoing that on the new (hdr) version of the map? If you do mind, that's okay :3 — Wind 00:54, 17 September 2011 (PDT)

I actually do mind; I have redone this over 3 times already and I find it unnecessary that it has to be redone just because it wasn't in the super HD version of the map. Besides, I'll need time to get accustomed to the hdr map. I'll try using it in the future, but for now, just accept what I made so I can get back to aiding Mellotaku with his Medi Gun demo. --Akuago220, The Jungle Expeditioner 08:56, 17 September 2011 (PDT)

Very well, sorry >: Thanks~ — Wind 13:46, 17 September 2011 (PDT)

Crusader's Crossbow

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2D13ApFetgQ — Armisael (T | C) 15:34, 15 September 2011 (PDT)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkA9lhZshxg Shiny and new. — Armisael (T | C) 20:04, 16 September 2011 (PDT)

Perfect. Varying-range reflections is also a great idea — Wind 00:54, 17 September 2011 (PDT)

Disciplinary Action

 Done but needs to be redone (Need to compare range with shovel)

It needs to be redone because doesn't show about it's long range melee weapon. Hinaomi 07:20, 11 September 2011 (PDT)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXNCSuWM3V0 The split screens are shifted to the right of center so that the whip is actually visible in them. — Armisael (T | C) 15:06, 11 September 2011 (PDT)

At 0:33, there's no need for the Engineer to be there at all. I think it would be less confusing if he wasn't there, just a straight run. In the next clip, it's a bit hard to see when the engineer has arrived... Maybe make him go all the way there and then come back? Not sure if it'd be better. In the next clip, there seems to be some graphical glitches around the soldier's head (some blood marks being stuck in the air or something). Last but not least, the HDR map has more detail and this demo has a lot of movement in it, so you need to increase the rendering bitrate (or equivalently, decrease the quantizer) or else there'll be bad video artifacts, like the ones from 0:35 to 0:37 when running fast. — Wind 15:35, 11 September 2011 (PDT)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvKyLG6XEg4 If you can, watch this one full size to confirm that there aren't any bitrate/color problems. I think that I've hit upon a good setup, but I want to confirm. By the way, the first clip is the only one that wasn't preprocessed. — Armisael (T | C) 18:02, 12 September 2011 (PDT)

Color and stuff looks good. Also, damn that map looks good, but there are some spots where it's just over-the-top. A prime example would be the engineer in the first clip where there is an Engineer; he's standing at the brightest spot ever and looks like a giant fuzzy ball of whiteyellow. Can you put him somewhere else? >: Same goes with the spot for the range comparison; his hand looks radioactive. Do try to demonstrate the range in that spot, it's a fine spot, just try to move a bit to the side or something to get rid of that. If you can't, that's fine, keep it the way it is. (Disclaimer: None of the lighting values were changed from the original map) — Wind 18:13, 12 September 2011 (PDT)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPZZhAKYqmg — Armisael (T | C) 19:27, 12 September 2011 (PDT)

Sssss I told you not to change spots >: But is ok anyway~ Please upload — Wind 19:31, 12 September 2011 (PDT)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Of4u71XdwNg Shiny n new. — Armisael (T | C) 22:00, 16 September 2011 (PDT)

You know, in the previous version of the video, I wanted to tell you "you should make the engineer turn 180 degrees" but then I held back because I realized it would require humans. But you did it anyway yay~ Please upload. — Wind 00:54, 17 September 2011 (PDT)

Golden Wrench

 Done but needs to be redone (new sound + sprite)

Seems like Valve added a new sound and a sprite for whenever you turn an enemy into gold.  –  Epic Eric (T | C) 21:36, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

It's just the sound actually, but that doesn't mean it's less important to redo this.  –  Epic Eric (T | C) 17:08, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

If they add some new sound. I think we need to redo it again. Hinaomi 17:01, 14 July 2011 (PDT)

Does this actually need to be redone? If the only change is the addition of voice lines, then our current one is fine. — Armisael 10:58, 6 August 2011 (PDT)

Yeah, and given the pain required in order to make that one demo, I think it's better not to redo it — Wind 12:22, 6 August 2011 (PDT)

No, it's when you kill someone, it makes a 'clang' sound, like hitting cymbals on a drum kit. I still think it needs to be redone. Check the failed Saxxy demonstrations, you'll hear a sound when the person turns to gold. SpaceAnimator 13:36, 6 August 2011 (PDT)

Oh I see. Then yes, it should be updated, if that is at all possible right now due to items_game.txt not fully functioning. If not, then maybe it's worth slapping those sounds directly on top of the pre-existing video. Loss of quality and everything, yes, but I think it'd be worth it — Wind 13:50, 6 August 2011 (PDT)

Whoever is doing this, wait until i-ghost has updated the map to show proper gold statues not the bronze looking ones. Wind mentioned this in the Saxxy demonstration discussion. SpaceAnimator 12:15, 26 August 2011 (PDT)

Just a FYI: I got a real golden wrench, so if you need me for anything, let me know. Plumpkins 00:50, 15 September 2011 (PDT)

Can you confirm that the level is shown in the backpack view? (And is 25?) — Wind 12:31, 15 September 2011 (PDT)

Yea, thats the level (and i think its the same level for every gw afaik).Plumpkins 16:16, 15 September 2011 (PDT)

 Reserved by WindPower

Alright~ Thanks — Wind 00:54, 17 September 2011 (PDT)

Lugermorph

 Done but needs to be redone (there's a several second long black screen between the scout and engineer)

Nah, ain't so bad to justify a re-do in my opinion >: — Wind 14:25, 17 September 2011 (PDT)

It's 5 seconds of solid black screen! If you want to redo the video personally to maintain the smoothness, I could care less, but that's sort of a big thing. — Armisael (T | C) 14:41, 17 September 2011 (PDT)

 Nope Contain your OCD, mister >:3 Consider that a challenge — Wind 15:03, 17 September 2011 (PDT)

Postal Pummeler

 Done, but needs to be redone (show that the damage penalty doesn't apply to buildings)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fr74R6rmO_U I feel like that comparison might make more sense if it compared mailbox v medic and mailbox v dispenser. Apparently that's just me, though. — Armisael (T | C) 20:32, 21 September 2011 (PDT)

Thanks, please upload~ — Wind 20:39, 21 September 2011 (PDT)

Righteous Bison

 Done but needs to be redone (new particle effects)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVoWTwJWP68 — Armisael (T | C) 20:56, 18 September 2011 (PDT)

I think we may have a problem... Look at them sniper glasses at 0:46. I'm not saying they don't look cool, mind you; in fact, they look at lot like the Deus Specs... But yeah. I think it's the same bug as the Bottle... However, I tried doing that myself and... This is what happened. So methinks there's something wrong on your side, à la broken audio cache. tr_target_weaponref_hdr, despite its name, has both an LDR and an HDR version. Change mat_hdr_level between 0 and 2 and see if there's any difference — Wind 21:25, 18 September 2011 (PDT)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1m8OJu2QDRI Turns out that the problem was that I had renamed the map for convenience and hadn't recompiled the cubemaps. — Armisael (T | C) 15:38, 19 September 2011 (PDT)

Why Medic vs Dispenser D: Imma say it again: Until there is a way to show damage numbers over buildings, comparing the killing of a Medic with the destruction of a Dispenser doesn't really make sense to the viewer; it just looks like two different, unrelated things. On the other hand, comparing the time it takes to kabewm a Dispenser with the Bison compared to the time it takes to kabewm it with a Shotgun is not only easier to understand and compare, it's also useful in the sense that you now know how much firepower against buildings you're dropping. I know that the damage of the Bison is not the same as the Shotgun, so in that sense it's not a fair comparison, but I think it is still much more effective in its goal to let the viewer know this: The Bison is terrible against buildings. — Wind 22:51, 19 September 2011 (PDT)

The medic and a level 1 dispenser both have 150 health. Although the medic does have regeneration, it's irrelevant over the timescale in that comparison.

Then couldn't we just skip the comparison part altogether? I would rather not have a comparison at all than have a very unfair one. — Armisael (T | C) 06:03, 20 September 2011 (PDT)

Then people are gonna complain >: — Wind 20:44, 20 September 2011 (PDT)

I don't really think they will. If you insist, I'll make the shotgun comparison, but in my opinion, the bison shot alone is better. — Armisael (T | C) 21:03, 20 September 2011 (PDT)

Is voting time doktor~ Read the conversation above to read the rationale between all options.

• Option A: Displaying comparison of the Bison against a Medic vs the Bison against a Dispenser
• Option B: Displaying a comparison of the Bison against a Dispenser vs the Shotgun against a Dispenser
• Option C: Not displaying any building-damage-reduction-related comparison — Wind 22:11, 20 September 2011 (PDT)

Votes:

 Option B Because of the reasons I wrote above — Wind 22:11, 20 September 2011 (PDT)

 Option B Makes more sense to compare weapons and not different targets. —Moussekateer·talk 22:49, 20 September 2011 (PDT)

 Option C We're demonstrating an attribute of the weapon which distinguishes between targets. We wouldn't compare killing someone with the Short Circuit to killing someone with the pistol, would we? Option A is my second choice. — Armisael (T | C) 05:01, 21 September 2011 (PDT)

 Option B I agree with Wind & Moussekateer, it just makes more sense to do it this way.--Mellotaku, The Sorcerous Shapeshifter 12:51, 21 September 2011 (PDT)

 Option B This just makes the most sense in my honest opinion. If not accepted, option A would be my 2nd choice! T-Wayne 13:28, 21 September 2011 (PDT)

 Option B For the same reasons stated already. Balladofwindfishes 13:29, 21 September 2011 (PDT)

 Option B I pretty much second what everyone else has stated about this option. Face it, Armisael, the odds are pretty much against you on this. --Akuago220, The Jungle Expeditioner 15:29, 21 September 2011 (PDT)

I think this is settled. Sorry Armisael >: I'd also like to point out that not picking option B would have meant re-doing the Cow Mangler as well. Look at it this way: Option A answers the question "How is this weapon's damage different on buildings?", whereas the other one answer the question "How much firepower-against-buildings am I giving up by choosing this weapon?". Option A is a direct demonstration of the attribute, option B is the combination of it on top of the choice a player has to make to pick this weapon in the first place, which is arguably more valuable than the direct demonstration. That doesn't mean option A is wrong; in fact, it's more sensical in a purely logical sense, but option B is more intuitive and easier to understand on viewers. — Wind 17:23, 21 September 2011 (PDT)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rs0dctyw2NA How's this look for the building damage comparison? I feel that it's a fairer comparison that what's in the current video, since the shotgun isn't at its optimal range. I thought I'd run this one past the weapon demonstration committee. — Armisael (T | C) 18:34, 21 September 2011 (PDT)

That's uh... a bit far, no? No player would try to destroy a Dispenser from this distance. Just use about the same range as the Cow Mangler demo — Wind 18:45, 21 September 2011 (PDT)

That was an exaggeration to try to prove the point that different weapons behave very differently in some scenarios. Real video coming up. — Armisael (T | C) 18:59, 21 September 2011 (PDT)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLzdvF3NxxQ — Armisael (T | C) 20:32, 21 September 2011 (PDT)

I should have said this earlier, but does your footage of the burninating soldier end here? If it doesn't, can you extend the clip a little bit? Preferably until after the afterburn decays; otherwise, the longer the clip goes the better. I just feel like it ends a bit quickly. If the footage ends there, that's fine, upload as is. Thanks~ — Wind 20:39, 21 September 2011 (PDT)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9KplLmSNW4 — Armisael (T | C) 21:29, 21 September 2011 (PDT)

Sharpened Volcano Fragment

 Done but needs to be redone (Needs to show afterburn kill)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJ4LoyjfSn8 — Armisael (T | C) 11:02, 17 September 2011 (PDT)

Is good, please upload~ — Wind 13:46, 17 September 2011 (PDT)

Shotgun

 Done but needs to be redone (New kill icon)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lRv5xvbFNk "New" here means January 7, 9 1/2 months ago. — Armisael (T | C) 14:17, 18 September 2011 (PDT)

Nice catch~ Can you test whether the reload speeds are still different? If they're not, I think this warrants an extra clip at the end showing them reloads in a 4-way split-screen :3 — Wind 15:54, 18 September 2011 (PDT)

Sticky Jumper

 Done but needs to be redone (New Weapon and Projectile Textures)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUdGjftyABU — Armisael (T | C) 20:17, 15 September 2011 (PDT)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSUwR_6VZYQ On the shiny new map. — Armisael (T | C) 16:29, 16 September 2011 (PDT)

Well, that was fast. I think this weapon is the one with the most reuploads ever, too. Hopefully this one is the last... Yet I have a feeling they are gonna nerf it back.

Anyway, is the last clip to show the difference in stickybomb travel distance? I have no idea how better to show it, but it's not very explicit to someone who doesn't know (it's not written in the description, either). It would help to have the charge meter displayed on screen (modified HUD file) to show that both launchers are charged by the same amount (even if said amount is 0% charge). But if you have a better, entirely different idea on how to demonstrate that, please do~ — Wind 00:54, 17 September 2011 (PDT)

Moving that bit of the HUD would be trivial. I could also move the place where it's being demonstration to someone where to stickies are more visible, I suppose.

I can, however, guarantee you that this won't be the last upload of this demo: DF has indicated that that effect is an accident, and will be fixed shortly, so I don't think it's worth bothering with putting a lot of effort into that particular comparison. — Armisael (T | C) 07:36, 17 September 2011 (PDT)

Then it's better to leave it out of the demo — Wind 13:46, 17 September 2011 (PDT)

Did you forget to do how about pyro if reflect sticky? Hinaomi 11:49, 17 September 2011 (PDT)

That's... a fair point, maybe. It hasn't been demonstrated for the other sticky launchers though... wat do? — Wind 13:46, 17 September 2011 (PDT)

We'll demonstrate it, of course. However, we'll wait for the fix to come in before redoing this one, because I don't want to work on this when I know that I'll have to redo it almost immediately afterwards.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtLH8fMEMxQ They missed a bug. — Armisael (T | C) 17:55, 20 September 2011 (PDT)

Hehe, I'm not sure that's a bug though...

Ullapool Caber

 Done but needs to be redone (New explosion sound effect on hit)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EW0onrAbLhY At least this one's only 3 months out of date (June 3). — Armisael (T | C) 14:17, 18 September 2011 (PDT)

Still no taunt Valve? Anyway, thanks~ — Wind 15:54, 18 September 2011 (PDT)

It didn't show how you can get a new one from a resupply cabinet. Dreadknoght195 19:18, 18 September 2011 (PDT)

There's no resupply cabinet in this map, so it'd have to be demonstrated on another map... I dunno. Up to you to decide, Armisael~ — Wind 21:25, 18 September 2011 (PDT)

The preceding discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.